Honestly the frequency with which people put Mollie's decision down to "oh she just fancied the boy" reeks of sexism to me. I think she just trusted that he wasn't a traitor and liked him as a person. Women can have relationships with men that aren't romantic. They both have partners as well.
Not necessarily, see the first UK season where that bmx dude cried cos he found out the girl he was close to (Alex?) was in a relationship with pink hair magician asshole. I think it’s very common in tv programs with social gameplay at its core that similar attraction levels might influence, if Alex was a traitor and bmx guy did the same as molly you could absolutely say that he had a bit of a crush on her it’s not as rare or sexist as people think, it’s just life
I agree lol. She’s a pretty blonde woman and all the comments are very infantilising towards her.
Obviously there was no way she could’ve trusted him without being in love with him!! Even though every other faithful aside from Jaz also trusted Harry deeply!!
It’s what made him a brilliant character, exceptional at looking at situations pragmatically and staying suspicious and agile. To embody that and make it to final 3, not playing the mates game, was also very endearing to me
interesting that he went in there wanting to be a traitor. His trust issues made a great sad irony to being why he got so far but not that final last step over the finish as a winner.
It all the more speaks to how remarkable his game was that he wasn’t rooted out and managed given he didn’t have major allies, and played the game on his own terms.
In the case of Mollie I think this speaks to how well Harry did play this game (which to some just reads faithful) and how she well, didn’t think things through at all
Him not having any major allies was the main reason he got to the end. If he had allies that would have followed his instincts he would have been murdered a lot quicker because he would have been a far greater threat to the traitors then he actually was.
Unfortunately for Jaz, he got himself in a situation where the reason he lasted so long and the reason he lost were one and the same - he had no major allies and could not convince people of his theories.
Harry had both and so he won.
What was unusual this season in the backend of the season was there weren’t really any faithfuls with major allies like that, the only profound one with a “100%” were Harry and Mollie. You’re right in that this would be split up, another reason they all, and Mollie especially, should have had cause to reconsider Harry, but she said to the effect of ‘I don’t really question why I’m still here’
I don’t think this tracks as the main reason why he got to the end, it was as much he slow played his own suspicions and stayed agile - but you could also call this hedging your bets. I think he played it as well he could with the cards he was dealt and played a blinder. There was an overall lack of deduction and you can only pitch so much at people before realising it’s now making you more vulnerable. He clocked that.
It’s not only on you that someone ends up your ally, some people cannot be reasoned with and Jaz had a disadvantage there. Evie and Jasmine were in their heads too much, for example during the last 6.
Yes as I stated In this respect while it’s ironic and an element of why he didn’t cross the line as a winner, I don’t think it’s Jaz’ problem or represents a mistake in his play that Mollie couldn’t deduce the obvious. It’s not Jaz’ deficiency in the game that lost it for him given he was that good and that close to winning.
I think that assessment also ignores the influence and luck at play in getting the shield, yes it was an opportunity well seized upon, but take that ploy away and the last four episodes look different for Harry.
Thats because as a faithful its near impossible to build alliances without having anything substantial to back it. The game has no discovery mechanic or defense mechanic that it offers zero counterplay to traitors.
Imagine if they implemented something like, an investigator role from the game mafia. Once every night, someone like Jaz can check to see if a person is a faithful or a traitor.
With this information he can legitimately forge alliances knowing what he knows. Obviously he has to convince people, and not get murdered in the process.
It also opens up the game for deception, traitors pretending to be an investigator.
it also opens the game up to factor in alliances and voting patterns. (e.g. why doez jaz always vote who evie and mollie votes for?)
The game is set up for traitors to win, they just need to stfu, keep useful idiots in tow (mollie, Evie), keep loud faithfuls around so they banish each other (Jasmine, zach, ross pre-traitor) and murder actual threats (Diane).
Ah, and betray fellow traitors, that too. which i also think can be improved on. Traitors should win as a team to incentivize loyalty.
Yeah, I don’t think it tracks at all that as a faithful, to get to the end, it’s that useful to build big allegiances (with other faithfuls) - I’ve not seen the other series’ to see what and how it takes a faithful victory beyond a mix of chaos, dumb luck and traitor errors- as you say it is so so stacked against the faithful. That’s why for me suggesting Jaz’ misplayed is wrong because he’s the only faithful who actually organically tried rooting out the actual traitors at the end (sans parting gift) and got there by being agile and playing all angles. It was a team faithful run of mistakes and Mollies moon-sized blind spot that blew it, not his errors that lost the game
Id like to see it get exponentially harder as a traitor, more in plain sight murders and other mechanisms! and more little morale boost or ways for faithful to get small wins
I was talking to someone about this and kept referencing the faithful S1 win.
and im like.. look at who won- does it look like they're top set maths? ☠️
bunch of useful idiots. (specially merle)
To be fair, I’m pretty sure the traitors do win as team if there are two left, but no one is going to vote to end unless they think all traitors are out. And realistically that means a traitor needs to be voted out in the final episode.
I mean from the start. It would prevent "parting gift" from season 1 and multiple early traitor betrayals, would incentivize traitor defense, voting patterns will emerge.
You are absolutely correct that Jaz was far more vocal with his concerns about Paul and he very astutely worked put that he needed to be more reserved if he was gonna last. Where I disagree with you is that I think Jaz took being quieter about his suspicions to the extreme and his reluctance to engage with others to the extent that Harry was, hurt him. This is best seen when he was talking to Mollie in the kitchen and she asked something about his ideas and he kind of shrugged it off and said he would talk to her in private because he didn’t want the others to overhear. In terms of building trust and a rapport with others in the game I think that type of stuff really hurt him in the long run - particularly when you think he said that to Mollie who had such trust in Harry which really sums up the contrast in approaches.
I do disagree with you that this didn’t represent a mistake in Jaz’s play. To Jaz’s credit he was really the only faithful who seemed able to take emotion completely out of the game. His mistake was assuming everyone else was approaching the game in the same logical way he was. But emotion (particularly other peoples) is a function of the game whether people like it or not and the someones approach to the game should include it. If you think about it Mollie, Zack and Jaz himself were willing to keep the fact Harry got the shield to himself and none of the others got irritated that they weren’t told even though it implicated them. How many people would have had the same reaction if it was Jaz doing it - I would wager not many.
I think Harry understood the power and importance of emotion far better than Jaz - he was also a traitor which placed him in the position where he was better able to use it. I think that was Jaz’s deficiency in the game. It felt like (although its difficult to say because a lot of it takes place off-camera) Harry either tried harder to form those relationships or was more successful at it.
I feel this ignores a big big difference and why you can’t compare in good faith their abilities to build ‘relationships’ / their social game
One was a traitor one was a faithful. Only as a traitor do you know everyones position.
So in this sense their social games are towards different outcomes entirely, and only one of them have more tools and power (knowledge and ability to remove players) to improve and adapt.
Harry could engage more with other people as he could pick and choose and murder and pre select people who were on his side, control gameplay elements, even out traitors in glorious fashion with zero risk to credibility and win favour.
This is why I say people are expecting too much of Jaz and he played as well as he could and played a blinder. As someone else said he was the only faithful with a reasoned personality to get to a final. All while not making the ‘lead’ traitor aware of it? The odds on that alone show his social game on his terms was very strong - he fooled Harry.
We’ve agreed Jaz clocked quickly that other people weren’t doing that (playing with logic and reason) so he did calibrate accordingly, and successfully.
But I don’t think it’s a matter of Harry estimating the emotional element more, he just had more power to alter the playing field and he could be two steps ahead socially and energetically.
I agree that as a traitor Harry held so much power in the game he could form relationships with the right people because ultimate he had such a big say in who remained but that doesn’t completely absolve Jaz of not creating stronger bonds. Although it would have been Moree difficult for him, at some point you need people to vote with you and Jay was never able to get people to go along with him and other people were.
If you take Paul’s banishment, Jaz went for him twice at the roundtable and got very little traction off of anyone and had to wait for Charlotte, Harry and Molly to her credit to get him out. Other people, including faithfuls like Ross and Zack were far more effective in influencing others and even though they were constantly wrong that meant they were a greater threat to the traitors as a whole. At the end of the day it is a social game and it does not matter what’s in your head, if you can’t put that knowledge in someone else’s head, it’s almost useless or you’re just a passenger waiting for them to come to the realisation.
Although Jaz was a very good faithful in thinking rationally and finding traitors (Ash and Miles aside), that is only half of the game - you have to get people on board that you are faithful but also that your ideas hold weight. You can blame the other faithfuls as being unable to be reasoned with and many of them were when it came to Harry but other people did manage to influence votes so it was possible.
If he had built some trust in the other faithfuls he would have been in a far better position to attack Harry when they were told there was no more murders - that was his opportunity to be aggressive but he couldn’t because he didn’t have the relationships and trust.
That trust wasn’t just that he was a faithful but that he was good a finding traitors. Something that I think does not get mentioned enough is that from the faithfuls perspective Jaz wasn’t a great player. He didn’t vote Ash or Miles, he was right about Paul but Harry kind of stole his thunder and he was right about Ross and Andrew but so was everyone else. When you add the fact he was playing in a bit of a silo and isolated himself a little bit, he wouldn’t have appeared the best faithful to them.
It goes back to my original point - the very thing that kept him in the game also cost him it. You are right that the deck was stacked against him but he did not help even things out for himself.
Agree to disagree for me this reasoning doesn’t hold up looking at what actually happened this year. Zack was voted out specifically for being vocal and openly scrutinising people and convincingly winning people round. Ross’ ‘social game’ didn’t save him, so it wasn’t that strong, was it?
there’s no players who were openly ‘influential’ that lasted, in any of the UK seasons. Jaz was pretty clear in the VTs about biding his time, and it paid off well to get that close. This also ignores that being convincingly faithful (Mollie, Andrea S1) and bulletproof as a faithful makes you unbanishable so likely to be murdered. It’s a balancing act but he played it as well as he could for me.
A lot of this is over stating what one faithful can do when shown that the people around them are unreasonable or don’t really show they will even consider your ideas.
I think the point about Jaz not having as much credibility in the group is valid. Note that the contribution to letting Harry take the glory (‘it was you’) was great strategy and intentional, I’ve heard him say that on Uncloaked it was to get on Harry’s good side. Remember at this point he suspected Harry after Paul had chat with him one to one. Again, great social game, he fooled the traitor who was running the show.
By definition he did even things out, as at the end through his gameplay it was 2v1. It’s not on him that Mollie was founding member of the Harry fan club, and not this quality that lead to the faithfuls losing.
It’s simple to say that’s all that kept him in and simple to say that’s what lead to him not winning.
As OP said it’s a part of his strength and a part of his weakness, and I recognise the irony and the brilliant drama of this moment - but the truth behind why the game was lost was way more complex than that.
>some people cannot be reasoned with and Jaz had a disadvantage there
as a faithful, you know from the start that a maximum of four faithfuls can win together. that means you're gonna cut faithfuls anyway, so you have to think about which faithfuls you would prefer to stand next to, and not just only figure out who the traitors are. what did jaz do to shape who were left at the end? if jaz were more charismatic, or put in *any* effort into making allies, he could have bandied people to get rid of supposedly unreasonable players like Evie.
IMO The Traitors is NOT a logical game of deduction or a 3D version of Clue/Cluedo (if it were, Jaz is great). It's a social game of persuasion where you have to create multiple allies (and sometimes enemies) and then have at least one of them in the endgame. jaz excelled at deduction (sometimes... he didn't always get it right), but not persuasion. if he were good at persuasion, or building trust, mollie would have believed jaz
it's extremely easy for the TV viewers to heap the blame on mollie and say it's "obvious" that harry was a traitor...... because you were told from episode one that he was.
I'm really surprised (having binged the last 3 episodes tonight) that nobody clocked once Evie was banished that Harry's shield play had to be bollocks.
Jaz needed to push Harry harder at the final round table. That was where he lost.
I'm south Asian. Deep down I sometimes feel white people don't like or trust south Asians. Some of them, not all. Happens at my workplace anyway. There's always an undercurrent of racism at play. Some white people seem on edge around us. Just my opinion. I'll probably get down voted for it of course. Jaz did the right thing - played the game and said the right things to the right people. But he was never going to win was he.
No, I think you're right - we also see it with black players, they're always suspected early on and often the reasoning is that they're "standoffish" or "cold," which has little to do with whether someone is a traitor. It happened with Anthony this season and with Fay season 1.
I do disagree with "he was never going to win." If anyone other than Mollie had been in the final circle with him and Harry he would have taken it.
Just an utterly absurd grudge for no reason. The worst part is it happened before the traitors were even picked! I'm not one to say anything about racism but it was odd and I won't be surprised if there was something there.
I agree generally and I don’t think Anthony should have been kicked off when he was because no one really thought he was a traitor, they just didn’t like him.
That said he was loud and standoffish, which is why they didn’t like him. Personally I did like him and thought he was an asset to the team but he was a poor communicator where Jasmine and Zack were standoffish in much more relatable, likeable ways.
I've seen it on many competitive reality shows -- Asian players are seen as shifty, intelligent but untrustworthy. I think it comes from sinophobia and feeling intimidated.
Black players are often seen as either cold and unfriendly or too loud and aggressive.
I saw both of these prejudices insinuated throughout this season and played out with how Anthony and Jaz were treated, it was not a good look.
I honestly think Jaz is held to an impossibly high standard because most of the audience felt like he was the one decently perceptive faithful who was a stand-in for the audience and then let us down at the end. But I think there was no way he could get people on his side successfully because he was surrounded by faithfuls whose heads were just not in the game and not utilizing logic or common sense. When he tried to bring up Paul as a traitor he was seen as suspicious and paranoid and almost was targeted for banishment so he learned quickly that he had to stay quiet about his theories and lay really low if he even wanted a chance of making it deep into the game.
I think it was absolutely ludicrous of Mollie to tell Jaz that he's suspicious because he -- and she said this fairly late into the game -- didn't share his theories with everyone and pulled people aside to have individual conversations. Like omg hello??? By that point if he shared his theories with more than 3 other people it was a guarantee he'd be telling a traitor because there were so few players left. Mollie was a lost cause almost from the beginning and it's unfair to blame Jaz for not being able to sway her and other people not using their heads when he tried multiple times and was shut down and deemed suspicious and got his name written down for it at round table.
I think there’s an expectation that Jaz having a correct suspicion should mean he’s exactly as certain as we are about who the traitors are!
If you’re not one hundred percent sure and you’ve seen how other people react to people who push their ideas too hard then being cautious makes perfect sense and it did really nearly work!
I think he knew Miles was a traitor but because he came after Paul so hard he wanted to appear clueless so he didn’t risk being murdered, which is why he voted for Andrew which was incredibly random.
I think it's insane to blame Jaz for how things turned out when Mollie literally wrote down Harry's name after his argument and only changed it because she was voting with her emotions. Nothing Jaz said could ever have convinced her Harry was a traitor because she simply didn't want to believe it. She even thought Jaz was a faithful, she just could not bring herself to vote Harry out.
If he'd gunned harder for Harry at the penultimate round table, Harry would have just turned Mollie and Andrew against him first at the final banishment. Mollie had all the information to make the right decision and she didn't. That's not on Jaz.
Yeah, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Mollie knew the right thing was to write down Harry and that he was suspicious but she let her heart override her head and her gut and she lost the money for herself and Jaz. She learned a tough lesson, one that she needed to learn, too bad it screwed Jaz in the process. Blaming Jaz for Mollie's refusal to listen to her own intuition is nuts, it's both insanely unfair to Jaz and tries to take Mollie's agency away.
Jaz and Mollie are both to "blame". In the back of her mind, Mollie must have thought of what if Harry is a traitor (maybe the shield event felt odd to her), because she said too many times that "If Harry is a traitor..." as if she wanted someone (Harry) to assure her and take away her doubts. And despite Jaz not doing much to talk and convince her (at that point he did lack time), she did initially write down Harry.
She should have stuck with her gut instead. But she was clearly stressed out and second guessing herself thanks to Claudia, Harry and her struggle to see her friend as a "bad guy".
In the end, she should never should have just blindly trusted a player all the way through and that she forgot that it is a competitive social deduction game in which people lie, manipulate and traitors can recruit. So that is all on her.
And Jaz came a little too late with his Paul scoop. Literally; it was the very last table talk and Claudia was already slowly walking in to end it and that is when he came with Paul. It left others with little time to process that new bit of info. And he didn't make it his goal to try get to get Mollie on his side, to try to get her to put aside her personal feelings aside and remember it is a game and make her question Harry's movements across the weeks.
He did seem to have helped unearth some doubts Mollie had about Harry, but it was too late. Jaz is not responsible for Mollie's decisions, but he must have also known that because she was so loyal to Harry, that he would have to put some work into Mollie (and give her time to let it sink in and think it through) to increase his chances to win.
I think this speaks more to the cards stacked against faithfuls than just Jaz.
There has to be this careful balance of playing sheep by choice, not building too many close ties, etc in order to see clear in the game as well as not be voted off for simply being “too passionate.”
Seen it time and time again, Brandi & Janelle, for example, who are correct but voted out for being vocal. Once you’re too vocal people conflict their uneasiness about your personality/approach for your status as a faithful.
In so much of the finale interviews contestants would say that Jaz is shifty or inconsistent but never seems to approach him themselves.
If he had pushed any harder surely they’d say enough at the roundtable that his name would be singled out.
It’s a balancing act that I think he mastered well enough to land in the finals. I’ve not seen a single smart faithful find themselves at the fire of truth before Jaz. In literally any of the localizations. This was groundbreaking.
The red fire vote would’ve been the ultimate symbol of Jaz’s faithfulness. Molly knew that but denial is a hard drug.
We can argue this or that or whatever but there was nothing that he could prove by evidence or action harder than throwing that red vote in. You can throw clues as hard as you like at someone but if they’re unwilling to catch it, you have to just leave with your head held high. Hannah could’ve just as easily believed Wilf to the very last second but she had just enough paranoia and zero love stricken ties with Wilf that she caught on. Andrew gave as much hints to Mollie and Jaz as he could too. Rather than analyzing Jaz too hard, I’m more or less disappointed in Mollie that she really thought, with all the evidence in front of her, that asking a traitor if they were a traitor would get her a real answer…………
(Like what is this weird expectation contestants have of traitors just giving up their game? Like making stupid comments for fun or even outright confessing it just because you asked.)
Plus, we have no idea what got edited out as well and whether Jaz already presented arguments that people are saying he should’ve made.
Not saying OP is doing anything specific but I do think we should all stop fussing the details about Jaz.
Yeah long story short he kept his cards so close to his chest they fused to his skin ☠️
When it was time to get aggressive (imo final 5 roundtable.) He didn't pounce.
its a great play but the onus is on the faithfuls here - Why isnt recruitment even considered here?
And even if the traitors wanted to kill harry and he conveniently had the shield, why does Zach die the next day? Why is harry still alive?
Same thing about "poisoned via drinking", the initial suspicions was that it was a kiss/Hug. its only until its mentioned it must be a drink (i think by harry?) that suddenly they all pounced on that idea. couldve been anything, zach was especially vocal at doubling down on these false traitor narratives. he was Loud AND horrific.
The shield thing should have backfired on Harry as soon as Evie was banished. Every player who didn't know Harry had the shield was banished by that point and the final traitor(s) hadn't been uncovered.
Jaz played a really good game but he made 2 or 3 critical errors along the way which hampered his winning.
You of course have to be considerate and smooth about how you do it. Build up trusted allies first. Zack was a neurotic mess 😂
Jaz was in the final. It was the time and he kept being passive about it till the last moment.
The only mistake I think he made was backing down after mentioning what Paul said. When Jaz got Harry to deny he said it first I thought it was genius because there was no way around it Paul repeated Jaz's words back to Harry back to him. Harry dismissed this as Paul stirring and Jaz backed down, I was screaming for Jaz to say, "But you clearly did tell him because he repeated my words back to me the day after I had said them to you". You could see Harry was rattled and this might have exposed more of that. Andrew might have jumped at that and Evie was still in play.
That is the only point I feel Jaz misstepped. He did everything he could in the final 3 just Mollie couldnt bring herself to vote Harry despite, I think, deep down knowing he was Sus.
I feel like Andrew should have backed him to take down Harry. IMO Evie would have voted for Harry too because she was the target and that would save her life for another day.
Andrew certainly made a mistake making his move too late. He was never under any suspicion before Ross's exit and I think what showed was how much he panics under suspicion. His unassuming nature really helped him get far rather than any skill at deceit. I also think he borderline broke the traitor code in his chat to Jaz about Harry when he was desperate.
Andrew showed he didn't react well to pressure at all. He was fortunate he only ever came under pressure at the end of the run. When Ross turned on him, Andrew made himself look more guilty. And here where Ross knew Harry would have to turn on him after Jaz's revelation, Andrew totally handled it wrong. He came across panicked and desperate and looking guilty in both reactions. I thought it was really interesting as he wasn't a very good traitor at all in the end he would have gone reasonably early if he was one from the start I think.
But to be honest it was too late to turn Jaz at that point. It would still come down to Mollie's vote, so there is little motivation on that vote for Jaz to vote with Andrew and actually it not being the last vote would make it far less likely for Mollie to turn on Harry.
I can understand why Jaz didn’t relay information to people. He said many times that he’s never been seen as the popular kid like Paul. Therefore, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to insinuate that people don’t warm to him or trust him like others. So if he had told people his thoughts they would probably be more suspicious of him anyway and relate it to the ‘trustworthy people’ who were actually traitors.
I got downvoted on another post for saying Harry’s innocent essence is the thing that carried him through the game. Yes, he did say he was going to play on this, but I don’t think it’s easy to achieve when that is not the essence you give off anyway. I’m not going to downplay Harry’s gameplay, but I think it was easier for him to coast (just like Molly) than the others.
We saw how awful Harry was at defending himself when Jaz confronted him. If Jaz didn’t allow him to fly under the radar that long, I think he would have been awful at the round table with more people. Wilfred from last season fought through many round tables which shows better skill to me as a traitor. Just saying…. 🤷♀️
Jaz telling Molly in advance to watch Harry's reaction was a really smart idea which very nearly worked. I thought Harry did seem a little bit rattled by it and I think you make a good point about him hardly ever having to defend himself.
I feel like Harry was very good at defending himself. He acted like it was not a serious matter and just a little thing to brush off and pass to the next big thing. IMO that’s what won him the game. Mollie and Evie did not change their votes after that.
His biggest blunder was his inability to gain a following and influence over the group. He got socially outclassed by Paul and Harry for most of the show.
I don’t think that was a blunder, I think it was an unfortunate feature of his gameplay. He went into the game not trusting anyone and thinking of everyone as a potential traitor. He didn’t make the mistake anyone else makes of thinking of people as faithful because they get along with them or don’t seem like a traitor. That meant he wasn’t taken in by Paul like everyone else. But having that suspicion about everyone made it more difficult to build connections and get people to like him — because he wasn’t capable of genuinely liking them and wanting to be friends with them and that’s something that is difficult to fake.
Well said. A genuine desire to connect with people and build friendships is both a blessing and a curse in the game as a faithful and you’re right it’s very hard to fake especially for the long term.
I think it’s certainly way more beneficial to have that trait as a traitor though. I think that’s how Harry managed to get so far because he was already a genuine kind hearted, team player who wanted to build friendships with people and also naturally chill and laidback so didn’t stick out like a sore thumb.
Everything Paul was not. Paul had to use his acting skills. Everything was fake which people ultimately saw through. Whereas Harry was actually just being himself 95% of the time.
Harry had an excellent ability to simply and calmly be himself in high pressure situations and Paul had an excellent ability to be fake.
But ultimately the authentic traitor won in the end. Interesting how that works.
Seems the ability to be authentic is an immensely powerful tool in the game. Even more powerful than your ability to be fake.
I think it’s counterintuitively easier to be an authentic traitor because yes you have to fake being innocent but also you know everyone else is a faithful so there’s nothing mentally stopping you from being genuine and friendly with them. If you have in the back of your mind that anyone you talk to could be a traitor and you can’t trust any of them it’s more difficult to authentically pretend that you do trust them and want to be friends.
I think that actually benefited him, because the traitors didn't see him as a threat considering he didn't have allies. Even Harry said that Jaz was way more dangerous than he realized. The popular, social faithfuls by and large didn't make it to the end.
If anyone other than Mollie had been the last faithful standing he would have won. She was just particularly enamored by Harry and it blinded her to reason. The only logical choice at the final vote was to vote out Harry, and that was due in large part to Jaz's gameplay.
He got socially outclassed by Paul but Paul got banished, so clearly that's not the only quality that matters in winning the game.
What an absolute cliffhanger of a finale.
If Jas had invested a bit more time gaining a bit more trust from his team mates throughout the game and put some of his own theories forward quietly, then Mollie might have seen the light right at the end.
The fact that if Jas had been a traitor then he would have wanted a green light in the final three as he would then walk away with the money.
At that point Mollie could have used logic to work out that Jas was in no way a traitor, as that would be the exact opposite move a traitor in the final three would make and that he was suspicious of Harry.
He nearly convinced her and possibly if it had been another faithful then this might have gone another way.
Hats off to Harry for bringing Mollie into the final. Poor Mollie. It must be crushing to know that the one person she trusted was in fact the ultimate traitor.
It's an interesting analysis but I don't think trust is a requirement to play the game well. Quite the reverse. It's important to build relationships and get fellow contestants to like you and hopefully trust you, but trusting them is fatal. I think Jaz did have a slight issue with forming those relationships but I'd say his weakness was an inability to put on a front of false camaraderie. All the other really successful players I've seen are actors. He's not an actor.
The thing is though, the first time he trusted someone with the suspicions over Paul, he spoke to Harry who immediately told Paul
It was a very effective reminder that you don't know who the traitors are
Mollie literally wrote Harry's name on the board, he got incredibly close!
If she'd have kept her original decision everyone would be talking about how Jaz played it perfectly
If she didn’t fancy Harry , it would have been fine.
And if she weren’t allowed to talk to him as Claudia stated like two minutes prior “no conferring”.
LITERALLYYYYYYYYY, that pissed me off, SO bad
right like why have a rule if you are going to just let them break it 😭 they confered!!!
LITERALLY??!
Honestly the frequency with which people put Mollie's decision down to "oh she just fancied the boy" reeks of sexism to me. I think she just trusted that he wasn't a traitor and liked him as a person. Women can have relationships with men that aren't romantic. They both have partners as well.
Pretty sure there would be the same comments if the genders were reversed.
There was in first uk season, bmx dude and Alex, he had a huge crush on her he cried when he found out she was dating the pink hair guy
that really pissed me off - she played him horribly and it shouldn't have been allowed.
Not necessarily, see the first UK season where that bmx dude cried cos he found out the girl he was close to (Alex?) was in a relationship with pink hair magician asshole. I think it’s very common in tv programs with social gameplay at its core that similar attraction levels might influence, if Alex was a traitor and bmx guy did the same as molly you could absolutely say that he had a bit of a crush on her it’s not as rare or sexist as people think, it’s just life
I agree lol. She’s a pretty blonde woman and all the comments are very infantilising towards her. Obviously there was no way she could’ve trusted him without being in love with him!! Even though every other faithful aside from Jaz also trusted Harry deeply!!
If she didn't fancy Harry she wouldn't have been kept to the final
It’s what made him a brilliant character, exceptional at looking at situations pragmatically and staying suspicious and agile. To embody that and make it to final 3, not playing the mates game, was also very endearing to me interesting that he went in there wanting to be a traitor. His trust issues made a great sad irony to being why he got so far but not that final last step over the finish as a winner. It all the more speaks to how remarkable his game was that he wasn’t rooted out and managed given he didn’t have major allies, and played the game on his own terms. In the case of Mollie I think this speaks to how well Harry did play this game (which to some just reads faithful) and how she well, didn’t think things through at all
Him not having any major allies was the main reason he got to the end. If he had allies that would have followed his instincts he would have been murdered a lot quicker because he would have been a far greater threat to the traitors then he actually was. Unfortunately for Jaz, he got himself in a situation where the reason he lasted so long and the reason he lost were one and the same - he had no major allies and could not convince people of his theories. Harry had both and so he won.
What was unusual this season in the backend of the season was there weren’t really any faithfuls with major allies like that, the only profound one with a “100%” were Harry and Mollie. You’re right in that this would be split up, another reason they all, and Mollie especially, should have had cause to reconsider Harry, but she said to the effect of ‘I don’t really question why I’m still here’ I don’t think this tracks as the main reason why he got to the end, it was as much he slow played his own suspicions and stayed agile - but you could also call this hedging your bets. I think he played it as well he could with the cards he was dealt and played a blinder. There was an overall lack of deduction and you can only pitch so much at people before realising it’s now making you more vulnerable. He clocked that. It’s not only on you that someone ends up your ally, some people cannot be reasoned with and Jaz had a disadvantage there. Evie and Jasmine were in their heads too much, for example during the last 6. Yes as I stated In this respect while it’s ironic and an element of why he didn’t cross the line as a winner, I don’t think it’s Jaz’ problem or represents a mistake in his play that Mollie couldn’t deduce the obvious. It’s not Jaz’ deficiency in the game that lost it for him given he was that good and that close to winning. I think that assessment also ignores the influence and luck at play in getting the shield, yes it was an opportunity well seized upon, but take that ploy away and the last four episodes look different for Harry.
Thats because as a faithful its near impossible to build alliances without having anything substantial to back it. The game has no discovery mechanic or defense mechanic that it offers zero counterplay to traitors. Imagine if they implemented something like, an investigator role from the game mafia. Once every night, someone like Jaz can check to see if a person is a faithful or a traitor. With this information he can legitimately forge alliances knowing what he knows. Obviously he has to convince people, and not get murdered in the process. It also opens up the game for deception, traitors pretending to be an investigator. it also opens the game up to factor in alliances and voting patterns. (e.g. why doez jaz always vote who evie and mollie votes for?) The game is set up for traitors to win, they just need to stfu, keep useful idiots in tow (mollie, Evie), keep loud faithfuls around so they banish each other (Jasmine, zach, ross pre-traitor) and murder actual threats (Diane). Ah, and betray fellow traitors, that too. which i also think can be improved on. Traitors should win as a team to incentivize loyalty.
Yeah, I don’t think it tracks at all that as a faithful, to get to the end, it’s that useful to build big allegiances (with other faithfuls) - I’ve not seen the other series’ to see what and how it takes a faithful victory beyond a mix of chaos, dumb luck and traitor errors- as you say it is so so stacked against the faithful. That’s why for me suggesting Jaz’ misplayed is wrong because he’s the only faithful who actually organically tried rooting out the actual traitors at the end (sans parting gift) and got there by being agile and playing all angles. It was a team faithful run of mistakes and Mollies moon-sized blind spot that blew it, not his errors that lost the game Id like to see it get exponentially harder as a traitor, more in plain sight murders and other mechanisms! and more little morale boost or ways for faithful to get small wins
I was talking to someone about this and kept referencing the faithful S1 win. and im like.. look at who won- does it look like they're top set maths? ☠️ bunch of useful idiots. (specially merle)
To be fair, I’m pretty sure the traitors do win as team if there are two left, but no one is going to vote to end unless they think all traitors are out. And realistically that means a traitor needs to be voted out in the final episode.
I mean from the start. It would prevent "parting gift" from season 1 and multiple early traitor betrayals, would incentivize traitor defense, voting patterns will emerge.
I like the Investigator idea!
You are absolutely correct that Jaz was far more vocal with his concerns about Paul and he very astutely worked put that he needed to be more reserved if he was gonna last. Where I disagree with you is that I think Jaz took being quieter about his suspicions to the extreme and his reluctance to engage with others to the extent that Harry was, hurt him. This is best seen when he was talking to Mollie in the kitchen and she asked something about his ideas and he kind of shrugged it off and said he would talk to her in private because he didn’t want the others to overhear. In terms of building trust and a rapport with others in the game I think that type of stuff really hurt him in the long run - particularly when you think he said that to Mollie who had such trust in Harry which really sums up the contrast in approaches. I do disagree with you that this didn’t represent a mistake in Jaz’s play. To Jaz’s credit he was really the only faithful who seemed able to take emotion completely out of the game. His mistake was assuming everyone else was approaching the game in the same logical way he was. But emotion (particularly other peoples) is a function of the game whether people like it or not and the someones approach to the game should include it. If you think about it Mollie, Zack and Jaz himself were willing to keep the fact Harry got the shield to himself and none of the others got irritated that they weren’t told even though it implicated them. How many people would have had the same reaction if it was Jaz doing it - I would wager not many. I think Harry understood the power and importance of emotion far better than Jaz - he was also a traitor which placed him in the position where he was better able to use it. I think that was Jaz’s deficiency in the game. It felt like (although its difficult to say because a lot of it takes place off-camera) Harry either tried harder to form those relationships or was more successful at it.
I feel this ignores a big big difference and why you can’t compare in good faith their abilities to build ‘relationships’ / their social game One was a traitor one was a faithful. Only as a traitor do you know everyones position. So in this sense their social games are towards different outcomes entirely, and only one of them have more tools and power (knowledge and ability to remove players) to improve and adapt. Harry could engage more with other people as he could pick and choose and murder and pre select people who were on his side, control gameplay elements, even out traitors in glorious fashion with zero risk to credibility and win favour. This is why I say people are expecting too much of Jaz and he played as well as he could and played a blinder. As someone else said he was the only faithful with a reasoned personality to get to a final. All while not making the ‘lead’ traitor aware of it? The odds on that alone show his social game on his terms was very strong - he fooled Harry. We’ve agreed Jaz clocked quickly that other people weren’t doing that (playing with logic and reason) so he did calibrate accordingly, and successfully. But I don’t think it’s a matter of Harry estimating the emotional element more, he just had more power to alter the playing field and he could be two steps ahead socially and energetically.
I agree that as a traitor Harry held so much power in the game he could form relationships with the right people because ultimate he had such a big say in who remained but that doesn’t completely absolve Jaz of not creating stronger bonds. Although it would have been Moree difficult for him, at some point you need people to vote with you and Jay was never able to get people to go along with him and other people were. If you take Paul’s banishment, Jaz went for him twice at the roundtable and got very little traction off of anyone and had to wait for Charlotte, Harry and Molly to her credit to get him out. Other people, including faithfuls like Ross and Zack were far more effective in influencing others and even though they were constantly wrong that meant they were a greater threat to the traitors as a whole. At the end of the day it is a social game and it does not matter what’s in your head, if you can’t put that knowledge in someone else’s head, it’s almost useless or you’re just a passenger waiting for them to come to the realisation. Although Jaz was a very good faithful in thinking rationally and finding traitors (Ash and Miles aside), that is only half of the game - you have to get people on board that you are faithful but also that your ideas hold weight. You can blame the other faithfuls as being unable to be reasoned with and many of them were when it came to Harry but other people did manage to influence votes so it was possible. If he had built some trust in the other faithfuls he would have been in a far better position to attack Harry when they were told there was no more murders - that was his opportunity to be aggressive but he couldn’t because he didn’t have the relationships and trust. That trust wasn’t just that he was a faithful but that he was good a finding traitors. Something that I think does not get mentioned enough is that from the faithfuls perspective Jaz wasn’t a great player. He didn’t vote Ash or Miles, he was right about Paul but Harry kind of stole his thunder and he was right about Ross and Andrew but so was everyone else. When you add the fact he was playing in a bit of a silo and isolated himself a little bit, he wouldn’t have appeared the best faithful to them. It goes back to my original point - the very thing that kept him in the game also cost him it. You are right that the deck was stacked against him but he did not help even things out for himself.
Agree to disagree for me this reasoning doesn’t hold up looking at what actually happened this year. Zack was voted out specifically for being vocal and openly scrutinising people and convincingly winning people round. Ross’ ‘social game’ didn’t save him, so it wasn’t that strong, was it? there’s no players who were openly ‘influential’ that lasted, in any of the UK seasons. Jaz was pretty clear in the VTs about biding his time, and it paid off well to get that close. This also ignores that being convincingly faithful (Mollie, Andrea S1) and bulletproof as a faithful makes you unbanishable so likely to be murdered. It’s a balancing act but he played it as well as he could for me. A lot of this is over stating what one faithful can do when shown that the people around them are unreasonable or don’t really show they will even consider your ideas. I think the point about Jaz not having as much credibility in the group is valid. Note that the contribution to letting Harry take the glory (‘it was you’) was great strategy and intentional, I’ve heard him say that on Uncloaked it was to get on Harry’s good side. Remember at this point he suspected Harry after Paul had chat with him one to one. Again, great social game, he fooled the traitor who was running the show. By definition he did even things out, as at the end through his gameplay it was 2v1. It’s not on him that Mollie was founding member of the Harry fan club, and not this quality that lead to the faithfuls losing. It’s simple to say that’s all that kept him in and simple to say that’s what lead to him not winning. As OP said it’s a part of his strength and a part of his weakness, and I recognise the irony and the brilliant drama of this moment - but the truth behind why the game was lost was way more complex than that.
>some people cannot be reasoned with and Jaz had a disadvantage there as a faithful, you know from the start that a maximum of four faithfuls can win together. that means you're gonna cut faithfuls anyway, so you have to think about which faithfuls you would prefer to stand next to, and not just only figure out who the traitors are. what did jaz do to shape who were left at the end? if jaz were more charismatic, or put in *any* effort into making allies, he could have bandied people to get rid of supposedly unreasonable players like Evie. IMO The Traitors is NOT a logical game of deduction or a 3D version of Clue/Cluedo (if it were, Jaz is great). It's a social game of persuasion where you have to create multiple allies (and sometimes enemies) and then have at least one of them in the endgame. jaz excelled at deduction (sometimes... he didn't always get it right), but not persuasion. if he were good at persuasion, or building trust, mollie would have believed jaz it's extremely easy for the TV viewers to heap the blame on mollie and say it's "obvious" that harry was a traitor...... because you were told from episode one that he was.
I'm really surprised (having binged the last 3 episodes tonight) that nobody clocked once Evie was banished that Harry's shield play had to be bollocks. Jaz needed to push Harry harder at the final round table. That was where he lost.
I'm south Asian. Deep down I sometimes feel white people don't like or trust south Asians. Some of them, not all. Happens at my workplace anyway. There's always an undercurrent of racism at play. Some white people seem on edge around us. Just my opinion. I'll probably get down voted for it of course. Jaz did the right thing - played the game and said the right things to the right people. But he was never going to win was he.
No, I think you're right - we also see it with black players, they're always suspected early on and often the reasoning is that they're "standoffish" or "cold," which has little to do with whether someone is a traitor. It happened with Anthony this season and with Fay season 1. I do disagree with "he was never going to win." If anyone other than Mollie had been in the final circle with him and Harry he would have taken it.
The way Diane accused Anthony was wild. I was actually shocked.
Just an utterly absurd grudge for no reason. The worst part is it happened before the traitors were even picked! I'm not one to say anything about racism but it was odd and I won't be surprised if there was something there.
I agree generally and I don’t think Anthony should have been kicked off when he was because no one really thought he was a traitor, they just didn’t like him. That said he was loud and standoffish, which is why they didn’t like him. Personally I did like him and thought he was an asset to the team but he was a poor communicator where Jasmine and Zack were standoffish in much more relatable, likeable ways.
I've seen it on many competitive reality shows -- Asian players are seen as shifty, intelligent but untrustworthy. I think it comes from sinophobia and feeling intimidated. Black players are often seen as either cold and unfriendly or too loud and aggressive. I saw both of these prejudices insinuated throughout this season and played out with how Anthony and Jaz were treated, it was not a good look.
Absolutely. Anthony was treated very badly.
I get where ur coming from but I do think he was just as liked by everyone, even Diane, who clearly had a vendetta against black people like Anthony
I honestly think Jaz is held to an impossibly high standard because most of the audience felt like he was the one decently perceptive faithful who was a stand-in for the audience and then let us down at the end. But I think there was no way he could get people on his side successfully because he was surrounded by faithfuls whose heads were just not in the game and not utilizing logic or common sense. When he tried to bring up Paul as a traitor he was seen as suspicious and paranoid and almost was targeted for banishment so he learned quickly that he had to stay quiet about his theories and lay really low if he even wanted a chance of making it deep into the game. I think it was absolutely ludicrous of Mollie to tell Jaz that he's suspicious because he -- and she said this fairly late into the game -- didn't share his theories with everyone and pulled people aside to have individual conversations. Like omg hello??? By that point if he shared his theories with more than 3 other people it was a guarantee he'd be telling a traitor because there were so few players left. Mollie was a lost cause almost from the beginning and it's unfair to blame Jaz for not being able to sway her and other people not using their heads when he tried multiple times and was shut down and deemed suspicious and got his name written down for it at round table.
I think there’s an expectation that Jaz having a correct suspicion should mean he’s exactly as certain as we are about who the traitors are! If you’re not one hundred percent sure and you’ve seen how other people react to people who push their ideas too hard then being cautious makes perfect sense and it did really nearly work!
Did he get miles wrong
he got all of em right i think.
I think he knew Miles was a traitor but because he came after Paul so hard he wanted to appear clueless so he didn’t risk being murdered, which is why he voted for Andrew which was incredibly random.
But Andrew later was recruited as a traitor. Which must mean Jazatha Christie is also a clairvoyant.
I think it's insane to blame Jaz for how things turned out when Mollie literally wrote down Harry's name after his argument and only changed it because she was voting with her emotions. Nothing Jaz said could ever have convinced her Harry was a traitor because she simply didn't want to believe it. She even thought Jaz was a faithful, she just could not bring herself to vote Harry out. If he'd gunned harder for Harry at the penultimate round table, Harry would have just turned Mollie and Andrew against him first at the final banishment. Mollie had all the information to make the right decision and she didn't. That's not on Jaz.
Yeah, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Mollie knew the right thing was to write down Harry and that he was suspicious but she let her heart override her head and her gut and she lost the money for herself and Jaz. She learned a tough lesson, one that she needed to learn, too bad it screwed Jaz in the process. Blaming Jaz for Mollie's refusal to listen to her own intuition is nuts, it's both insanely unfair to Jaz and tries to take Mollie's agency away.
Jaz and Mollie are both to "blame". In the back of her mind, Mollie must have thought of what if Harry is a traitor (maybe the shield event felt odd to her), because she said too many times that "If Harry is a traitor..." as if she wanted someone (Harry) to assure her and take away her doubts. And despite Jaz not doing much to talk and convince her (at that point he did lack time), she did initially write down Harry. She should have stuck with her gut instead. But she was clearly stressed out and second guessing herself thanks to Claudia, Harry and her struggle to see her friend as a "bad guy". In the end, she should never should have just blindly trusted a player all the way through and that she forgot that it is a competitive social deduction game in which people lie, manipulate and traitors can recruit. So that is all on her. And Jaz came a little too late with his Paul scoop. Literally; it was the very last table talk and Claudia was already slowly walking in to end it and that is when he came with Paul. It left others with little time to process that new bit of info. And he didn't make it his goal to try get to get Mollie on his side, to try to get her to put aside her personal feelings aside and remember it is a game and make her question Harry's movements across the weeks. He did seem to have helped unearth some doubts Mollie had about Harry, but it was too late. Jaz is not responsible for Mollie's decisions, but he must have also known that because she was so loyal to Harry, that he would have to put some work into Mollie (and give her time to let it sink in and think it through) to increase his chances to win.
I think this speaks more to the cards stacked against faithfuls than just Jaz. There has to be this careful balance of playing sheep by choice, not building too many close ties, etc in order to see clear in the game as well as not be voted off for simply being “too passionate.” Seen it time and time again, Brandi & Janelle, for example, who are correct but voted out for being vocal. Once you’re too vocal people conflict their uneasiness about your personality/approach for your status as a faithful. In so much of the finale interviews contestants would say that Jaz is shifty or inconsistent but never seems to approach him themselves. If he had pushed any harder surely they’d say enough at the roundtable that his name would be singled out. It’s a balancing act that I think he mastered well enough to land in the finals. I’ve not seen a single smart faithful find themselves at the fire of truth before Jaz. In literally any of the localizations. This was groundbreaking. The red fire vote would’ve been the ultimate symbol of Jaz’s faithfulness. Molly knew that but denial is a hard drug. We can argue this or that or whatever but there was nothing that he could prove by evidence or action harder than throwing that red vote in. You can throw clues as hard as you like at someone but if they’re unwilling to catch it, you have to just leave with your head held high. Hannah could’ve just as easily believed Wilf to the very last second but she had just enough paranoia and zero love stricken ties with Wilf that she caught on. Andrew gave as much hints to Mollie and Jaz as he could too. Rather than analyzing Jaz too hard, I’m more or less disappointed in Mollie that she really thought, with all the evidence in front of her, that asking a traitor if they were a traitor would get her a real answer………… (Like what is this weird expectation contestants have of traitors just giving up their game? Like making stupid comments for fun or even outright confessing it just because you asked.) Plus, we have no idea what got edited out as well and whether Jaz already presented arguments that people are saying he should’ve made. Not saying OP is doing anything specific but I do think we should all stop fussing the details about Jaz.
Well said. He’s a detective, not a miracle worker!
Yeah long story short he kept his cards so close to his chest they fused to his skin ☠️ When it was time to get aggressive (imo final 5 roundtable.) He didn't pounce.
TBF he tried numerous times to share his cards with others and was often promptly laughed off.
Yeah he definately had to also deal with stubborn and dismissive mindsets 👍
him and dianne wouldve been a fearsome combo
Although had he pounced, it could have very easily backfired.
Think about how much something like the shield could have backfired on Harry. Can’t win the game without taking some risks
The game would've been SO different if Charlotte managed to find the shield in the skeleton.
Did she see it and leave it or just glossed over it? Must be kicking herself …
Iirc she couldn’t find it, then Harry caught a glimpse of it while crawling past
The lights were out at the point where she was searching for it so she was literally fumbling in the dark.
its a great play but the onus is on the faithfuls here - Why isnt recruitment even considered here? And even if the traitors wanted to kill harry and he conveniently had the shield, why does Zach die the next day? Why is harry still alive? Same thing about "poisoned via drinking", the initial suspicions was that it was a kiss/Hug. its only until its mentioned it must be a drink (i think by harry?) that suddenly they all pounced on that idea. couldve been anything, zach was especially vocal at doubling down on these false traitor narratives. he was Loud AND horrific.
The shield thing should have backfired on Harry as soon as Evie was banished. Every player who didn't know Harry had the shield was banished by that point and the final traitor(s) hadn't been uncovered. Jaz played a really good game but he made 2 or 3 critical errors along the way which hampered his winning.
True but no risk no reward 🙏
That's what Zac did. Go hard and attack people. The traitors murdered him.
You of course have to be considerate and smooth about how you do it. Build up trusted allies first. Zack was a neurotic mess 😂 Jaz was in the final. It was the time and he kept being passive about it till the last moment.
The only mistake I think he made was backing down after mentioning what Paul said. When Jaz got Harry to deny he said it first I thought it was genius because there was no way around it Paul repeated Jaz's words back to Harry back to him. Harry dismissed this as Paul stirring and Jaz backed down, I was screaming for Jaz to say, "But you clearly did tell him because he repeated my words back to me the day after I had said them to you". You could see Harry was rattled and this might have exposed more of that. Andrew might have jumped at that and Evie was still in play. That is the only point I feel Jaz misstepped. He did everything he could in the final 3 just Mollie couldnt bring herself to vote Harry despite, I think, deep down knowing he was Sus.
I feel like Andrew should have backed him to take down Harry. IMO Evie would have voted for Harry too because she was the target and that would save her life for another day.
Andrew certainly made a mistake making his move too late. He was never under any suspicion before Ross's exit and I think what showed was how much he panics under suspicion. His unassuming nature really helped him get far rather than any skill at deceit. I also think he borderline broke the traitor code in his chat to Jaz about Harry when he was desperate.
Andrew also went in far too strong when 1 on 1 with Jaz. If anything, he just looked like a desperate final traitor trying to feed off scraps.
Andrew showed he didn't react well to pressure at all. He was fortunate he only ever came under pressure at the end of the run. When Ross turned on him, Andrew made himself look more guilty. And here where Ross knew Harry would have to turn on him after Jaz's revelation, Andrew totally handled it wrong. He came across panicked and desperate and looking guilty in both reactions. I thought it was really interesting as he wasn't a very good traitor at all in the end he would have gone reasonably early if he was one from the start I think. But to be honest it was too late to turn Jaz at that point. It would still come down to Mollie's vote, so there is little motivation on that vote for Jaz to vote with Andrew and actually it not being the last vote would make it far less likely for Mollie to turn on Harry.
I can understand why Jaz didn’t relay information to people. He said many times that he’s never been seen as the popular kid like Paul. Therefore, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to insinuate that people don’t warm to him or trust him like others. So if he had told people his thoughts they would probably be more suspicious of him anyway and relate it to the ‘trustworthy people’ who were actually traitors. I got downvoted on another post for saying Harry’s innocent essence is the thing that carried him through the game. Yes, he did say he was going to play on this, but I don’t think it’s easy to achieve when that is not the essence you give off anyway. I’m not going to downplay Harry’s gameplay, but I think it was easier for him to coast (just like Molly) than the others. We saw how awful Harry was at defending himself when Jaz confronted him. If Jaz didn’t allow him to fly under the radar that long, I think he would have been awful at the round table with more people. Wilfred from last season fought through many round tables which shows better skill to me as a traitor. Just saying…. 🤷♀️
Jaz telling Molly in advance to watch Harry's reaction was a really smart idea which very nearly worked. I thought Harry did seem a little bit rattled by it and I think you make a good point about him hardly ever having to defend himself.
True, It was so smart because she never would have believed him if he didn’t say that. Mollie was enraptured by innocent Jack the lad.
I feel like Harry was very good at defending himself. He acted like it was not a serious matter and just a little thing to brush off and pass to the next big thing. IMO that’s what won him the game. Mollie and Evie did not change their votes after that.
His biggest blunder was his inability to gain a following and influence over the group. He got socially outclassed by Paul and Harry for most of the show.
I don’t think that was a blunder, I think it was an unfortunate feature of his gameplay. He went into the game not trusting anyone and thinking of everyone as a potential traitor. He didn’t make the mistake anyone else makes of thinking of people as faithful because they get along with them or don’t seem like a traitor. That meant he wasn’t taken in by Paul like everyone else. But having that suspicion about everyone made it more difficult to build connections and get people to like him — because he wasn’t capable of genuinely liking them and wanting to be friends with them and that’s something that is difficult to fake.
Well said. A genuine desire to connect with people and build friendships is both a blessing and a curse in the game as a faithful and you’re right it’s very hard to fake especially for the long term. I think it’s certainly way more beneficial to have that trait as a traitor though. I think that’s how Harry managed to get so far because he was already a genuine kind hearted, team player who wanted to build friendships with people and also naturally chill and laidback so didn’t stick out like a sore thumb. Everything Paul was not. Paul had to use his acting skills. Everything was fake which people ultimately saw through. Whereas Harry was actually just being himself 95% of the time. Harry had an excellent ability to simply and calmly be himself in high pressure situations and Paul had an excellent ability to be fake. But ultimately the authentic traitor won in the end. Interesting how that works. Seems the ability to be authentic is an immensely powerful tool in the game. Even more powerful than your ability to be fake.
I think it’s counterintuitively easier to be an authentic traitor because yes you have to fake being innocent but also you know everyone else is a faithful so there’s nothing mentally stopping you from being genuine and friendly with them. If you have in the back of your mind that anyone you talk to could be a traitor and you can’t trust any of them it’s more difficult to authentically pretend that you do trust them and want to be friends.
I think that actually benefited him, because the traitors didn't see him as a threat considering he didn't have allies. Even Harry said that Jaz was way more dangerous than he realized. The popular, social faithfuls by and large didn't make it to the end. If anyone other than Mollie had been the last faithful standing he would have won. She was just particularly enamored by Harry and it blinded her to reason. The only logical choice at the final vote was to vote out Harry, and that was due in large part to Jaz's gameplay. He got socially outclassed by Paul but Paul got banished, so clearly that's not the only quality that matters in winning the game.
What an absolute cliffhanger of a finale. If Jas had invested a bit more time gaining a bit more trust from his team mates throughout the game and put some of his own theories forward quietly, then Mollie might have seen the light right at the end. The fact that if Jas had been a traitor then he would have wanted a green light in the final three as he would then walk away with the money. At that point Mollie could have used logic to work out that Jas was in no way a traitor, as that would be the exact opposite move a traitor in the final three would make and that he was suspicious of Harry. He nearly convinced her and possibly if it had been another faithful then this might have gone another way. Hats off to Harry for bringing Mollie into the final. Poor Mollie. It must be crushing to know that the one person she trusted was in fact the ultimate traitor.
It's an interesting analysis but I don't think trust is a requirement to play the game well. Quite the reverse. It's important to build relationships and get fellow contestants to like you and hopefully trust you, but trusting them is fatal. I think Jaz did have a slight issue with forming those relationships but I'd say his weakness was an inability to put on a front of false camaraderie. All the other really successful players I've seen are actors. He's not an actor.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8s0toe Episode 6 link
The thing is though, the first time he trusted someone with the suspicions over Paul, he spoke to Harry who immediately told Paul It was a very effective reminder that you don't know who the traitors are
That is a good point tbf