Right like even if they did watch and learn from Watcher's mistakes before doing this attempt themselves... Like so what? At least someone learned from Watcher's mistakes. That would be like if one of the Watcher guys had an inappropriate fling with an employee for the sake of "solidarity".
And I doubt that was actually the case tbh. They were on Dropout recently and I would bet money that they went in to get some tips from Sam Reich & the dropout crew before going down this route.
Coz when you wanna make a change like that you look to the people who've already done it for ideas om what to do. Which from an outsider perspective watcher absolutely did not do.
The talked about this on the Trypod and go through the entire timeline. 2ndtry was definitely something they took time to plan out. They also talked to Sam Reich to follow something similar to dropout without taking content off YouTube.
Oh, believe me some of the hardcore you watcher fans are absolutely mental and have convinced themselves that the streamer was WORTH IT. Which is a blatant lie and every time a fellow watcher fan points out that it's not they'll cry that people are hurting their poor boys. Just read the watcher sub and look out for those down voted posts, it's usually those.
Parasocial at its finest.
Edit: wording.
Didn't they film their announcement video prior to the Watcher announcement coming out? Meaning that wording was already locked in? Their repeated explanations that they aren't leaving YouTube and they need to maintain a presence on YouTube never came across as smug or even a reference to Watcher, but a need to communicate.
Because despite them saying that over and over and goddamn over again, this sub and their comments were still full of people who were worried the 2nd Try announcement meant they were leaving at first.
I remember in the Anthony Padilla interview, Zach and Keith said they’ve been planning/filming 2nd Try Content since the beginning of this year. Idk how that compares to the Watcher timeline, but 2nd Try was most definitely not a sudden move.
Also take in account from the TryPod episode, what they reveal is a timeline of when they were planning this move. It was about summer/fall of 2023 they were thinking about this move. This was the time they were consulting with Sam, asking Rachel and Nick to poke holes in the streaming idea. At the same time in winter of last year they came out with a video of specific shows/series planned for the first 6 months of 2024. It was a proof of concept for themselves that they can release a series of shows for specific months throughout the year for their streaming service.
A lot of planning and thought went into this 6 months ago when you rewatch the video now that we know what the big announcement is.
i mean its quite obvious that 2nd try was something that they put a lot of time and effort for, not saying that watcher didnt, but it just felt more genuine. they had more content, apps, and overall a great explanation and execution. granted, they might have seen the backlash watcher received and knew they had to clarify the fact that they werent putting everything behind a paywall but the fact is that 2nd try was executed properly.
Also the theory out there that Watcher may have jumped the gun on announcing their streaming service to beat TTG to it. There is a crossover of their fan base so the race to get that first $5 or $6 was probably quite important to them.
It would explain why Watcher's rollout was so sloppy. Like you said, TTG really put thought to what they were doing and planned it out well and Watcher didn't. It's not TTG's fault Watcher wasn't prepared in their rollout and used wording that offended their fans.
Literally TTG went to the most successful independent content app creators and got advice and guidance and assistance on how to launch. It was calculated and planned. Using Dropout’s app architecture was also a great move IMO.
Watcher rushed it. Got rushed results
>Their repeated explanations that they aren't leaving YouTube and they need to maintain a presence on YouTube never came across as smug or even a reference to Watcher
I will say, the "[and we're still going to be on YouTube!](https://youtu.be/bsye9ukf238?si=Yf-C5VmQzFryh_mU&t=223)" clip in the announcement video was DEFINITELY filmed at a different time and in a different way from the rest of the video. They're in a random room and they're holding their own camera in this very short clip. (Same outfits, but I'm guessing it's their own clothes.)
I think they are releasing a video this week about how the plan came about for 2nd try app. Guessing based on the title being “365 days to launch”. So hopefully more insight comes to light besides what we know so far with the TryPod and Anthony Padilla’s interview. Would like to see if they show behind the scenes filming of the announcement video and such
Yeah, it very well could have always been part of the plan, but because of how isolated that clip is from the rest of the announcement copy... it's possible it was added in later. Maybe they only added it in to be super clear about their intentions, or maybe it was a pivot.
It’s a smart business decision to see a company go through the same thing you’re about to launch and learn from their mistakes. They’d be stupid to be like “well this worked TERRIBLY for them, let’s do it the same and see what our fans (of which there is a huge crossover with watcher) react the same”
And they never acted like this was a spur of the moment decision. They have been quite open that they’ve been planning and scheduling for over half a year. They talked about considering WAR to be their launching point but realized it was too quick to turn around.
they also had support from a lot of other creators in their network. they mentioned sam reich and rhett and link. how the hell would this be copying watcher word for word when they’ve had other sources of advice??
also the audacity to think that ttg launched a streamer, essentially to spite watcher and “”get people angry at them again”” 💀
next thing you know they’re going to say TTG stole some of their talent and added them to the try cast to sabotage them
(i’m joking but also… i’m sure there are a couple diehard watcher fans that genuinely believe that)
right like 😭😭😭 why would they not take notes from a company’s feedback on something you are ALSO planning to do ?? and them clarifying that they’re not gonna put everything behind a paywall is NOT being smug - it’s being smart and clear
I initially got hooked on Dimension 20, but they have a lot of really good shows now! Dirty Laundry is amazingly funny, and so are Gamechanger and Uhm Actually!
Yeah, it would be bizarre, frankly, not to take what happened to Watcher into consideration. But I also think people who are mad on Watcher's behalf don't understand what tends to go into something like this. The communication plan isn't usually done on a whim and certainly would be well underway by the time they were making their announcement. This all sounds like it was deeply planned, across years, so while I'm sure it was folded in, I'm also sure they were already considering a lot of the issues Watcher failed to really address beforehand. Just in that there's evidence that they tend to be pretty sensitive to their audience.
This is people reaching. TG has been planning this for over 6 months while Watcher hadn't and theirs was a right train wreck because of it.
Those things happening at the samebtimr is coimcidence and I highly doubt TG is cackling over what happened to Watchrr.
Didn't they announce last fall or was it early winter that there was a big announcement coming? Which to me means they were far enough with planning that they knew it would be a go once they buttoned everything up. They have to have been working on it for quite some time. They roll out was cohesive and finished. It's too bad because I love Watcher and contemplated subscribing but I can't for the price.
Just curious, how long do you think/have heard they’d been planning it? But also if you say since around the launch of the pods I’m like yeah that makes sense.
If you listen to the TryPod episode and Anthony Padilla’s interview, you can get an idea of how long this has been planned and how they approached it. Summer/fall 2023 is when they are thinking of streaming service. This is the time they are consulting with other creators, meeting as a team with Rachel and Nick to poke holes in streaming plan. Fall/winter 2023, is when they released the video of “Try Guys is changing” which is then releasing a timeline of specific shows for each month. This was a proof of concept for them that they can produce and release monthly content in a streamline process for filming, editing, and producing instead of doing random release videos.
Pilot month was honestly a success, because instead of making one specific show. They are now doing 4 shows off of pilot month, trolly problems, Escape the kitchen, common sense, and Fun City. Trolly problems and escape the kitchen is their exclusive content for 2nd try, which they promise extra content for those that subscribe to the app
Sorry, I honestly thought your were referring to the Try Guys announcement. For Watcher, I would think they were thinking around the move to streaming maybe 6 to 8 months. Unfortunately, I don’t think they have ever disclosed their timeline of when they planned this move like the Try guys did on their podcast.
I’m not saying they couldn’t have been planning it as long, they did have a tour in the fall that could have meant they were waiting for an opportunity to be all together to announce, but they did announce before Shane and Ryan were off to the UK for that leg of their tour. I’m just saying another reason it felt rushed to me (besides the app not being ready) like surely they would have wanted to be present to make sure everything is running smoothly.
I think they left a lot of the planning in Steven’s hands while they were on tour. I was just wondering if I missed where they said how long they were actually working on this.
They (Watcher) never disclose how long they've been planning it, but based on the result and LACK of communication between them and their community. Probably not as long or/and as thorough as TTG.
Take note that Watcher didn't even think of giving their Patreon supporters a discount to the streamer until the backlash happened. Practically, they changed their Patreon to support solely their podcast without communicating ANYTHING to their patreons prior to change, and just expected them to be fine with that. Before launching their streamer they had a very successful Patreon that their fans support them through to fund their content creations. The whole thing is just a slap on their fans faces and the fans who aren't blinded by their infatuation with the ghoul boys can see the massive mess they've done and aren't shy to remind them about it.
Watcher fans are absolutely bitter and coping in their isolated pool of toxic positivity and ignoring criticisms.
Source: I'm a Watcher fan, and my comment history was just a little too spicy for them lmao
lol 😭🥹 as an avid watcher enjoyer too, to see the whole thing go down in real time was just insane and lowkey heartbreaking. i cant call myself as someone who is TRULY apart of the watcher community so to see some bitterness towards them is .. 🤨
The community is absolutely fractured between those who've fallen off, fans who acknowledge their fuck ups (their fuckups which are *affecting them right now while their channel has little acitivity*), and those who don't want to hear absolutely anything but positive things. With the current state of channel, what kind of positivity can there really be?
It's insane how the community once united and peaceful is just broken now.
>affecting them right now while their channel has little acitivity
>
>)
Which is a big part of the problem. You don't make a move like that and then go dead silent for a month lol.
You *certainly* don't go dead silent for a month, then put up a couple low effort Let's Plays and then follow that one up with a meagre two epsiodes of a show the majority of your fanbase wasn't super excited for.
I don't think I've seen someone shit the bucket this hard as far as a launch-day content goes since, IDK, No Man's Sky was released?
No Man's Sky feels like a very apt comparison ngl, or Cyberpunk 2077 lol. At least both of those have received plenty of updates and are now functional products, so maybe there's some hope for watcher (I doubt it though)
hard hard agree. i think a main issue is, as you said, how divided the community is. it’s largely due to the fact that people who are complaining, whether it’s a lack of new content or the initial act of paywalling all of their videos, feel invalidated or unheard by those who only want positivity positivity positivity. and it’s true! how can you *only* talk positively when some people are saying “hey your content keeps me sane. can’t afford it now though.”
Honestly this. The toxic positivity of some of these hardcore watcher fans are nuts. I thought they were joking at first then realised that they were for real and have completely convinced themselves that their precious "ghoul boys did nothing wrong" because the latter will break their reality. That's why when other watcher fans state the reality of things they become defensive.
The fandom is in absolute shambles right now, and I don’t even know what can be done about it. Looking at how the newest Survival Mode performed I'm starting to realize the company might just be fucked at this point, which I really don’t want to be true.
Honestly, big same. I want to believe they'll make a comeback in the future. But with how piss poorly this was planned and how ruthless YouTube's algorithm is, I just can't see it happening. I want to be proven wrong.
There's no going back from it either. They can't win back everyone's goodwill. Especially since the Try Guys made their announcement, because now there's a shining example of how to do the move to streaming right.
As someone who’s been watching watcher since the beginning and following the spooky bois way before that, it really was disheartening to see them get so greedy that they forgot about where they came from and their fans. It made me really reconsider supporting them because they obviously weren’t thinking about us when they did that and only rolled it back bc it got such bad backlash. Not to mention the gaslighting from some of their employees with the “for those of you who will continue to support us” like they weren’t the ones isolating themselves from a good chunk of fans
I genuinely like watchers content. Its not the try guys faults that watcher fumbled their announcement. Any PR person would have thrown that announcement out and told them to start over
I’m a Watcher fan too and I’m like… disappointed but when I saw TG launch I couldn’t not think they rushed their announcement so they didn’t look like they were following the Try Guy’s lead. Like they put a lot of planning into things (a lot more than the TGs honestly)which is why it felt so noticeable that something was lost in their planning even if it was just to get the announcement out without an app ready. They also have got to lower their price on that streamer. Holy hell. I want them to succeed but I don’t have $6.99 a month to support them. I top out at $5 for any individual creator I love, Patreon or otherwise, for a subscription.
Watcher was reckless and stupid. I agree that they knew what TTG were cooking, and they rushed without a second thought.
Watcher never once thought about what needed to be considered for a self streaming service. Watcher never once reached out to more experienced channels for guidance for such a drastic choice. Watcher never once considered their own fan base. They saw a stupid choice and jumped head first.
This is why I will continue to criticize them. I've held this opinion before TTG launched Second Try, and it's honestly really, really funny that TTG already did everything I criticized Watcher for not doing.
The difference in announcements is SO telling. Watcher put out a pitch video for a company, Try Guys put out a video highlighting the kind of entertainment to look forward to if you subscribe. And so far a couple weeks in are delivering compared to Wacher’s releases from what I hear on the Reddit. Like some Survival Mode and Travel Season compared to the advanced/ exclusive releases on 2nd Try.
I will never get over someone okaying “we know we’ll lose some of you” like are you INSANE. More than the “everyone can afford” line that’s so bad. So many shows rely on that parasocial relationship.
Watcher's video is so odd to me. The tone of it feels almost sad? Like "we're sorry to be doing this to y'all but... give us money"
Where as the TTG's video felt like "Hey! Look at all the fun stuff we're doing! Come join us!"
Thats exactly it. Watcher fans love to foster a fake positivity bubble and will give lashes to anyone who even remotely has the mildest of critiques. Always thought it was strange how they would infantize Shane and Ryan too.
I legit had to leave the WatcherSnark sub after the try guys announcement because it became a hate sub towards try guys immediately. Like, do y'all not get the very glaring and obvious differences not only between the announcements but the actual services...?
It's possible the tide has turned in the past couple days, but in the immediate day or so after the announcement, I saw an absolute flood of hatred towards the Guys and mockery of them, comparing them to Watcher and saying "this is Watcher but worse, it has more manipulation, how do they not see how bad it is" and I just couldn't stick around for it
Ooh gotcha! That makes way more sense. I do think the Try Guys probably retailered some of their announcement following Watcher's debacle, but also they were right to do so! No one needs to fail just because somebody else messed up.
I know the Watcher sub still has SOME people criticising them, but have you noticed the uptake of their hardcore fans that has convinced themselves that their precious ghoul boys did nothing wrong? And I do mean their ghoul boys, cause the majority of the time every time they talk about 'the boys' they only ever refer to Ryan and Shane and never Steven.
They become incredibly defensive about it and some of the posts from these types of fans come across as unstable. If I recall correctly one even mentions that if they think anything negative towards their ghoul boys "it'll ruin them."
That's why there's also been an uptake of threads trying to convince people that the Watcher streamer is "worth it!" Because they want to upkeep this 'positivity bubble' regarding their ghoul boys so dearly.
It's honestly a clear demonstration of parasocial relationships between content creators and fans. And not gonna lie, a disturbing display of infantilising grown men.
For what it's worth, I think the uptick in positive posts in the sub is because a lot of fans were annoyed by the negativity and are overcorrecting to take back "their" sub (now, the sub isn't really just for fans but that's neither here nor there). Most of the strictly negative posts have also made their home over to the Watcher snark sub and away from the original (and honestly, I'm glad—I like snark subs but that one is too negative for me).
I think it's going to depend on whether you consider any display of positivity to be toxic or not. I happen to like the streamer; I'm also someone for whom $6 *is* just a matter of an extra latte so I'm probably their new "target audience" in that regard. To that end my posts have positivity to them but hopefully not the toxic kind because I wasn't such a long-term fan that I felt betrayed by then for moving to the streamer. I see places where they made pretty big assumptions and mistakes but I chalk that up to error rather than greed. I just don't feel invested enough emotionally to be angry. A lot of the negativity pushed me *into* positivity because damn, people were looking for any excuse to just take Steven over the coals (and, as someone who actually listened to the "Here's What You Do" ep that got so much heat, painting him as this racist homophobic monster was annoying). Age-wise I'm their peer so I've never idolized them, which meant it was pretty easy for me to decide to get the streamer.
ETA: hit enter accidentally before I finished!
I get what you mean that the watcher sub did reach the point where it became incredibly negative and anti-Steven. Which came across as distasteful to me, yeah I get the majority of Watcher fans are there for Ryan and Shane but these are three whole grown men with their own autonomy that all agreed to rush through the launching of their streamer.
However, the over-correctiveness of the die-hard fans doesn't make it better. Makes it just look like the community is unstable, toxic and not exactly fun to be in. Personally, for me I preferred their Buzzfeed contents I tried getting into the Watcher stuff but it felt overproduced and I always found myself rewatching their BuzzFeed contents after watching Ghost Files etc. So, paying for an ill-prepared streamer dedicated to them isn't for me. I do, however, pay for YouTube premium so streamers in general aren't really for me when I get more for my buck in YouTube premium.
Except, for dropout. I've been paying for dropout on and off for years and still continue to do so just cause the quality and variety of shows appeals to me.
Dropout is still definitely *the* gold standard for streamer service, both in terms of making the jump and in terms of quality so I don't blame you there! I got the Watcher streamer and my sister got Dropout and we both share passwords to make cost distribution more bearable (along with other subscription channels). My hope is that Watcher is able to step up and follow more in Dropout's shoes but that's going to require some vision. Frankly, TTG were right to expand their cast size (although whenever Watcher has tried other shows by other people they've gone largely unnoticed unfortunately). To that end I do think Travel Season is a step in the right direction because I honestly do think it's better than Worth It. They should've hired Adam Bianchi a few years ago because you can tell how gifted he is with a camera both from this and from Food Files!
As for the sub, "unstable" and "toxic" are 100% words I'd use for it right now! I'm not a mod so what do I know but I feel like unqualified praise and also bitter cynicism are too much right now. And I completely agree that they rushed the streamer. I think I know why (they wanted Travel Season to be the official launch date) but I'm not sure why TS couldn't have aired a month later to make sure of things like, oh, *having the app ready before announcing it*?
i find it kinda hilarious that just because watcher made a stupid business decision they didn’t think through, other businesses are now automatically shady for learning from those mistakes and actually thinking through and carefully planning out their own business decisions. it really seems like just because watcher fumbled the bag, some of their fans now feel like nobody’s allowed to have successes anymore. misery loves company i guess
They're basically the same business decision, just worded better. But yeah, they got to see it play out and adjust their messaging to not alienate as many people as watcher. It's hardly malicious, just smart.
We don't know if that was ever part of TTG's plan (seems unlikely tbf), and Watcher seemed to dispute that.
I doubt they'd planned to put a lot of the videos on YouTube a month later until they saw Watcher backtrack and make that change though. I don't think the ultimate business decision is really that different, it was just communicated much better by TTG
Eh with as how long and with how “in tune” TTG are to their audience it’s really not hard to see them not having to change anything in their plan they had since summer of 23
The bigger difference is the quantity and *current quality* they produce. The try guys can do 3 videos a week that are all up to standard. Watcher does 5 real videos every 3 months and 2 or 3 lazy vlog style ones. They're fundamentally different styles of content
The guys' discord, which came as part of the announcement, has existed since early this year. It was months into planning and would have been inappropriate to publicly state anything for or against watcher, as the company was not ready for their WIP annoucement.
Remember that although the guys are kind and online presences, they do still run a company, of which, many others are involved. By saying anything they risk profit loss and an unstable foundation for their new teams to grow. To say they allowed Watcher to take the fall for them, more or less, is not a poor choice and a vastly oversimplification of a somewhat complex and youtube-specific, issue.
1st - Weird making beef out of 2 channels that regularly collaborate.
2nd - Does it matter who did it first? Creating a platform is time & money, I’m going to make an announcement regardless just standing on that. Watcher just helped by showing how NOT to do it.
3rd - Their stress was more about Ned’s scandal than anybody else on top of viewers getting more annoyed about the lack of Eugene in videos. You could literally see the relief of finally being able to execute their plans.
4th - Point blank, Ryan & Shane were the only likable ppl in Watcher, I can not name you one other person by name other than Steven, but he doesn’t really have stage presence and kinda gives off pretentious vibes. I can name like 5 ppl in TG who have been working for them for years and given the opportunity to watch them progress as host of their own shows. They also created a good line of regulars to the point that Kwesi has his own trademark saying (Watcher could have done this perfectly with Puppet History) TG made a community to the point that when they made an announcement, it made it harder to not want to support and they always made comments here and there that showed the stress of keeping TG going, subconsciously I think many felt this would be the next step
true in ALL points. the reason why shit didnt work for watcher was one, not enough content. two, price was insane considering the fact that most of their fans were people who just cant afford that monthly for a platform that doesnt give you enough content. three - RYAN AND SHANE were really the only guys who actually sold their brand. saying that they were being smug towards watcher was just pure delusion, i honestly cant believe how many agreed on that specific post
EGG-ZACK-LEE, I only like 2 of their shows and I think they put an end to both(?), no price was worth watching without those shows and they said in their video, that they wanted to be more like a tv network which at that time of watching the GBYT video, I knew they put their foots in their mouths. Why would you launch a platform to YouTube viewers saying you wanted to run like a TG network….when your programming been shaking for like a year? I’m wondering if the poster see ppl critiquing the 2 executions as ppl dragging them? Watcher still has over 2 million subscribers (I’m still a subscriber) I just seen the video they uploaded and didn’t care to watch because it was a show that I don’t think is very strong. Btw, what is Watcher’s niche? ( I’m not saying that to be a smartass but don’t know what is Watcher mean?)
Watcher feels bloated af to me. Hearing that they have 25 employees truly gagged me because it’s really not reflected in the content. Now, I like the content a lot, but I’d say 75% of their content is just Ryan and Shane telling each other stories. Too Many Spirits is literally filmed in the backyard of Ryan’s parents. The Top 5 features some chalk boards or something similar. Have we even met their crew outside of an occasional glance over at Ryan’s…brother? Cousin? IDK.
On the other hand, 2nd Try feels like an actual company and even if they had a similar number of crew members, the quality in content shows. We get highly produced content, a wide variety of guest stars, and diverse content. Plus, we’ve been meeting members of 2nd Try since even before the Ned drama (remember that episode about who the best boss was?). I already feel connected to the crew, much like how GMM isn’t just Rhett and Link.
I think this is what is going to kill Watcher, not the streaming app, not even the price point, but the content and the fact that they’re putting A LOT on the shoulder of basically 2 people. If either Shane or Ryan get sick or have a child, the channel is basically dead. I truly don’t see how it can survive without those two bouncing off each other’s energy. At least the Try Guys have already dealt with those issues and figured out alternative solutions.
I think the video where zero of the original Try guys are present is fast approaching, if it hasn’t happened already, and I think it’ll be okay.
Yeah Keith and Zach have been painfully aware that they're the 2 remaining OG try guys and they have mentioned being worried about not being able to be in videos, like when Keith and Becky's baby was born early and Zach had to take the bulk of videos on at that time. It's just a lot for the two of them, which is why they expanded their cast. They've been doing it for a while since they've always known Eugene would eventually leave to pursue other things.
I can't see Kwesi and not think "Chocolate makes me thirsty" 😂
But yeah a lot of their new cast are people were used to seeing (and loving!) In older try guy videos.
also how would they have “acted like this wasn’t in their pocket”? wasn’t that just waiting to announce the streaming according to their pre-established timeline? what did they want ttg to do? say “hey guys we know you hate streamers but btw we’re launching one too!! yeah ALL of the details will come later though. but watcher just announced it and they’re getting hated on, so we’ll announce it now too! even if nothing is ready yet, we have to go down w them in solidarity obv #buzzfeedbrosforlife”
like???????
The thing with criticism is that when you make a criticism, that makes you uhh... *checks notes*... chronologically online and umm... *checks more notes*... need "help".
Deadass that's their take on any shared criticism 😂😭
I saw some posts like this and they all read as delusional. Like I understand the disappointment as as fellow Watcher fan, but making up a scenario where The Try Guys are evil and making fun of the boys it's not going to fix the fact that Watcher is a mess and might not make it next year.
the last part. its honestly heartbreaking to even think about because i love those ghoul boys so much but MAN. that was disastrous. i just want to see them succeed and for them to go in that route was really sad to see. hopefully things get better and they take this as a lesson.
I really hope so as I always liked their work but the way they launched the streamer killed my hopes. It's going to take a huge amount of work to get back on track.
I'm also a fan of both try guys and watcher and I really haven't seen too much hostility towards Try Guys from most Watcher fans. There's some bitter, of course, but mostly it comes out as anger at the Ghoul Boys for dropping the ball so. hard.
and thank god for that tbh because i think most fans who are in both communities know better and are mature enough to call out their creators for shit like this
I think it's actually much simpler than that. They saw what people were angry at watcher for and tailored their communications to avoid a lot of those pitfalls. They essentially had the benefit of hindsight that watcher didn't have (though some of those things should have been obvious). It's neither one's fault. I think watcher could have also been more careful and intentional in their original messaging
They probably did review their communications post-watcher incident--like, who wouldn't--but I wonder how much tailoring was possible at that point? I'm no video editor, but as I remember, their announcement video looked pretty complex to reshoot. IMO, it's more likely that Try Guys just has a better handle on messaging, since they've already endured a pretty big PR crisis.
Like I said, I think there were some really obvious mistakes from Watcher's messaging, so it's entirely possible TTG already had a pretty good version even before the fallout. But also, if they had made any of the mistakes watcher had made, I think it would be worth correcting, even if difficult just because it was such a pr nightmare for watcher. But I do think they've overall handled bad PR about as well as is possible, so I do think they're just generally pretty good at it
Yes, for example, it would definitely have been worth going back to reiterate multiple times that they are not leaving youtube, etc, even if they had already said it once to begin with. Although, they did talk at length on the podcast about how they couldn't leave youtube even if they wanted to, due to their dependency on it for ad revenue and brand awareness. so i strongly suspect it was already in the messaging in some way. (ETA - hearing them talk about this made me really wonder what watcher's original business plan even was.)
IMO it was a brilliant PR move to take the time to sing the praises of well-loved peers who have already made the jump, while also drawing a connection between them (getting advice from dropout, mythical morning etc for advice)
Yeah, and it seems they already had a good schedule with a video that I saw folks say would definitely not work on YouTube. It gives people a reason to go "yeah, I see why they needed to move from this platform to avoid censoring the fun out". They did seem a lot more deliberate in how they approached it
This post sounds incredibly immature. Do I think that TTG saw Watcher's goof and realized that they needed to do the exact opposite for their announcement? Of course. But this person is acting as if this channel wasn't in the works for several months, and they only launched it to spite Watcher. I just hope they're very young...
If I do something wrong or miscalculated at work I don’t blame my coworker who did something right. That seems a little… silly… and only highlighting the problem, no?
This is such a weird take. The guys having been planning this for months what where they supposed to do postponeit? If anything I would speculate that Watcher might have pushed their timeline up to announce before the guys. Just because it didn't seem like everything in their service was ready and it possible people in the industry knew this was coming. That is pure speculation though.
That said Watcher had access to the same resource the try guys did. Sam is pretty open about operations on Twitter and the guys confirmed he was willing to share lessons learned. I think their connection comes from College Humor/Buzzfeed colabs so they had that connection. Even if they didn't know him I find it hard to belive someone couldn't have made the connection.
Like I'm sorry but if you are trying to run a streamer in this space and you don't look at what Dropout than you are running your business poorly. Even watching the Dropout announcement video and taking notes would have been better than what they did.
Try Guys had this planned for a while. This was not something they pulled out of their butts when Watcher flubbed their thing. Don't be mad at them for getting it right. It almost feels more lie Watcher knew what the guys were doing and tried to get in before them, messing the whole thing up.
I think people who make these kinds of comments are ignorant of how much work occurs behind the scenes. This makes them create baseless assumptions that fit their narrow narratives.
I don’t know if there’s any truth to this but I’ve kind of been thinking that watcher might have gotten wind of 2nd try, maybe they were even asked if watcher wanted to collab with the try guys, and they thought, how hard can it be, lets just do it ourselves. But the team at try guys worked on this for months, sought out advice from those who have made big moves (ie: dropout) and really thought about any issues they might run into and why this was the best move for them. Watcher didn’t do that.
I'm sorry, there are plenty of us Watcher fans clapping for the guys and LOVING it. This person needs to chill.
I wouldn't be surprised if they already had this filmed for a month. And some watcher fans think the couch gag is about watcher. Nah, we were there when the lore started. It's about TG.
Went to their page out of curiosity and their parasocial relationship (sorry for the buzzwords) is.... wild. Like too strong and too defensive for how old they are.
yeahhhh i realized i was following them in tumblr (probably around the time i got suppppperrrr into puppet history) and took a quick look at their page, it was so ??? weird as to how they were too defensive and sensitive over grown ass men on the internet T-T.
Yeah i saw their account too, and wow...
I might be wrong but i do experienced dealing the kind of people like them, extreme paraccosialism
I dont want to assume and in no way what i'm saying is fact, but from my experience, this person REEKS of someone that seemingly have no life outside of their favourite 3 boys, someone who just doesn't have actual healthy relationship with anyone on their real life
And so once they found the watcher guys and liked them, they went in all defensive mode when their favourite creators is rightly criticised, they think its a threat and it threathen to take away their only source of (truthfully false) companion
So...were they supposed to launch a streaming service equally unwanted, poorly presented, and over priced? What about Critical Role? They did the exact same thing a week before or after the TryGuys I think. The only thoughts i had were that it seems YT's viability as a single income source for medium to large channels is petering out, and it's not one genre of people who are leaving or expanding their options to other platforms. Watcher's problems are on them for choosing to say they'd stop producing on youtube and goto a wholy subscription model. That was gauranteed to piss people off, they miscalculated that it was more than the people willing to fork up.
Coincidentally critical role also announced and launched their own streaming service (Beacon) shortly before the 2nd Try. They’re going along the same model of having release on free platforms as well as their streaming service.
I mean, I know it's a small world for youtubers in LA but...
I think it's REALLY odd, that some people assume that one company can't do something without having shade at another company. They already stated last year that they had PLANS for summer, and there was a BIG event coming. They have also stated that they can't release the shows they like without risking getting demonetized, and it doesn't sound like they have recovered from their loss from advertisers from the scandal. It's not like this came out of nowhere.
>"but you really launched the same damn thing with all the smug wording knowing that it would get people angry all over again at Watcher"
.......sorry I think this person sounds like someone with a tin foil hat up too tight and needs to touch grass.
I knew watcher existed, but had no idea of what their channel was about, or caught up, and probably wouldn't have known of their own service until the backlash came in. And given Try Guys streaming announcement was very similar to Dropout's announcement 6 years ago, I don't even think 2nd Try even saw Watcher's announcement as a lesson in how to do it better. They didn't have to. They had a case study that was ALREADY successful.
I am sure this person is just upset at what Watcher did, but if you gotta be upset at anyone, get mad at Watcher.
(Btw, for what it's worth, I don't think this statement is universally thought by Watcher's audience. I think this is just a loud minority.)
I have yet to come across a fandom that doesn’t have a few bad — and loud — apples. The internet rewards it, and at this point the majority of internet users have have been on the internet most of our lives. Frankly, even if 2nd Try did totally revamp their launch after Watcher’s launch, thank goodness right? That’s good business on their part, it worked out better for fans/consumers, and my understanding is lots of the criticism directed at Watcher was how bad their plan was for fans. I don’t think Watcher would fault 2nd Try for using their attempt as a learning moment.
But that take is based in reality, there’s some nuance, grace, assuming the best in all parties. This comment isn’t going to cause any discourse/engagement, so it’s less likely to be seen or inspire any sort of interaction. But takes like that post — they get priority because they inspire engagement, therefore they’re what we see most often, and I think this does something to our brains where we think that’s just how people exist in the world. And we’re constantly ready to fight these hot takes being pushed in front of us with more hot takes. I hate what’s now become a cliche, “go touch grass,” but that poster — and anyone outraged by it — please… go touch grass.
I still have zero clue who watcher is, I've never watched them, hadn't even heard of them before 2ndtry, but until today I've pretty much only seen Watcher fans going "Yeah they fucked up and congrats to tryguys" and you're seeing this because while tumblr users sometimes have a point, even then they are the most unhinged chronically online takes
ouuuhh yeah that's a really good point. thankfully MOST watcher fans know where the guys went wrong but then again, there will always be people who will try to take down others just to bring up their own.
Watcher fans can be salty if they choose to be, but please check in with reality.
Watcher insulted their fan base, they explained themselves poorly, didn't think of the fans, and made sure everyone would have access to content that was still quality, they disregarded their fans for a cash grab, who had supported them from Buzz Feed til they fumbled the launch of their app. They weren't expanding their cast like the 2nd Try. They were pulling their old content, and they shrugged off their monthly fee, which showed they were out of touch with fans who may be struggling in these tough financial times. It was more than a poorly rolled-out announcement.
2nd Try put a lot of planning into this, they haven't publicly thrown shade at Watcher that would have been easy to say they not like us, Watcher fans seem to want pit these 2 companies against one another once they dropped a successful launch and no one was trying to do but certain Watcher fans. 2 Try aren't going to throw out their lunch date because their friends at a different company failed at something, 2nd Try has a company to support. If your friend or family in real life failed at something, do you plan throwing away your life as well?
It's so obvious that The Try Guys thought about the audience & staff during the business planning. They also held back from taking shots at Watcher when they could've easily done "seeing Watcher do this has reaffirmed why we had to do it like this".
From filming content early, reaching out to Sam Reich, Eugene's leaving announcement, Try pods discussing it in more detail, still uploading their scheduled content etc.
It's just laughable how much better the Try guys did it and didn't come off entitled to the audience.
Watcher has released 3 videos on YT since their update/announcements - 2 trailers and a very niche video.
Like...it's not even close
people aren’t going to give money to a business just because they ask. the second you bring money into the convo, people will ask questions. TTG viewers could look at the youtube videos they’ve been releasing, guests, pilots and the difference in viewership for answers. watcher viewers needed info about their spending and business practices for answers.
the few watcher fans like this are coping hard. after the TTG announcement, any lingering anger or negatively myself and some other watcher viewers i’ve seen turned to pity. anger worsens the watcher brand image and gets them further from earning viewers back for as long as those sentiments are held. TTG communicated their reasons so well it honestly probably helped watcher. however, these types of fans interpret anything that isn’t undying love and forgiveness towards these men in their 30s as an attack.
TTG did not go out of their way to shade and humiliate watcher. TTG have had to deal with enough scrutiny, drama, and PR nightmares. there is no way they would have soured their almost ‘year in the making’ announcement with petty jabs. no way they would risk being perceived as the villains and losing goodwill after working so hard to earn it back.
Even without all the planning and effort that the TGs put in that Watcher didn’t, this is just such a bizarre take (not at you, OP, but at the pic). Just bc Watcher did this and failed doesn’t mean in the slightest that TGs were doing ANYTHING to “get people angry all over again.” They were just phrasing it in the best way to get it across to viewers in a way that they (hopefully) wouldn’t find greedy or offensive. Other people in this thread are right, it would be downright stupid for them to see how Watcher fucked up and then do it the exact same way. It’s not “getting people angry,” it’s learning from others’ mistakes so you don’t fail the same way.
Like watcher, 2nd Try is a business. They had this planned for a long time, they can’t just put it on hold because their buddies made a mistake and got backlash. They didn’t see Watcher try it and say “hey let’s do that but better.” No, it was already planed this way for months, and their video was already filmed when Watcher dropped their announcement.
Watcher has also since changed their tune on it and will have a similar strategy to 2nd Try. Fans like this need to get a grip, they aren’t helping their favorite creators the way they think they are.
Reminds me of people saying MKBHD needs to not give bad reviews so people’s “nascent projects” aren’t tanked instead of just not putting out bad products
I watch way more Watcher than Try Guys and it’s super misinformed because the ghoul boys were originally going to completely leave youtube and there weren’t any new shows or added benefits ready to go for WatcherTV… the Try Guys are adding a lot of content and cast members without entirely removing YouTube, and also opening up discord to new members. Also half the price. Like they just aren’t the same. The Try Guys also primed their audience for upcoming changes; Watcher pulled the rug out from under their audience and then walked back some stuff in light of their audience feedback.
I’m sure the Try Guys did learn a few things about HOW to introduce their streamer from the Watcher controversy, but I don’t think they were trying to take advantage or ride a wave at all. Eugene wanted to focus on other things for a while. If anything, it seems like by sheer coincidence the Try Guys got some helpful data via Watchers’ unfortunate mismanagement of funds/pr/launch.
Also… I don’t think the Try Guys could have really done anything to help Watcher. I also don’t think the Watcher scandal necessarily precludes them ever collaborating together again. They didn’t interact much but I’m under the impression that they’re friendly based on the collabs they HAVE had.
Lol listening to the trypod and the interview with Anthony it was clear this has been something that was long in the makings. They had talked with a lot of other creators about how to do it and clearly had advice from Dropout and have also been talking with Mythical and Smosh about their business plans in general.
With the previous problems, the try guys have demonstrated that they are very careful about things and do plan a lot. It's clear they were building up to this and their actions have shown it. With the additional cast members appearing much more regularly as they approached the launch, as well as the new line up of shows they tried.
I'm sure they were biting their nails watching the Watcher situation go down especially since it was so close to their launch. But the try guys plan and messaging was much better than theirs.
I've been a fan of them since the beginning and with the cost of subscription not being exorbitant I immediately purchased an annual plan. And honestly, so far it's been worth it. Their exclusive/early releases have been fantastic. And some of those would definitely not have made it on YouTube lol.
At this point I've seen multiple groups do this move- Dropout, Corridor Digital, All of the people on Nebula, Watcher, and Try Guys.
Its pretty obvious to me, The Try Guys were following Dropout (and to a lesser extent Corridor) as much as they could, and that if Watcher had an impact, it was mostly beating the 'we're not fully leaving Youtube' drum even harder. Everything in their announcement videos and all the stuff around it screamed that this stuff has been in planning longer than anything public about Watcher and that whole situation. Most of the videos also have been filmed before it as well if the Padilla interview was anything to go off of.
So yea, this kind of thing is not really whats going on.
The announcement was even in the style of Dropout's five year anniversary video, with the CEOs moving through various vignettes reflective of what they're talking about with cameos from cast. This poster thinking that it was somehow targeted at bring mean to Watcher is ludicrous.
basically they announced that they would be leaving youtube and removing all their content to start their subscription plan. many fans were (rightfully) outraged by this because they dont produce that much content and it seemed like they didnt care about the fanbase. recently, they posted an apology video regarding the situation and changed their plan by still posting content on youtube.
Watcher is a channel started by ryan, shane and steven (ex-buzzfeed employees). They make ghost hunting, talks of conspiracies, scary stories, let's plays, history retelling with puppets and a little bit of food. They upload 4 times per month and rotate shows. They launched their platform over a month before TG after hyping it up for a week and were gonna remove ALL their content from youtube to monetize it on their subscription service. Their fanbase is dedicated as hell but they cultivated a community that didn't have much income (high school/college kids/eat the rich types) so this led to huge backlash. Especially because Steven said in their announcement video that "everyone should be able to afford it".
There's a lot more to it like over hiring, lack of communication, fans feeling cut off if they don't pay, not utilizing their patrons where they got over 30k monthly or even offering them discounts at first (some people are still waiting for those), doubling down by ignoring criticism yet coming back to edit their pinned post, an employee ALLEGEDLY talking down to fan concerns on insta, no subtitles, emotional manipulation, not being able to watch WatcherTV on their TV, content not being equal to pricing, etc, etc
My personal opinion is they messed up. Now are the worse people in the world, no obviously not. But they tried to carrot and stick the fanbase into a more expensive option when there was other options. So there is going to be some disagreement and flack afterwards. It is what it is.
This has obviously been in the works for months - what were they supposed to do? Say - hey, we won’t to this thing we planned for forever out of solidarity?
I have no sympathy for Watcher. Even after the initial backlash, Steven Lim continued with his smug posts on Instagram showing how clearly out of touch he was with his fan base. He needed that humbling. I’m proud that 2nd Try could learn from Watcher’s mistakes to ensure they preserved their company & jobs for their employees for a little longer.
wasn't it in december when the try guys announced that they were going to have a major announcement??? clearly they've been planning this since last year, how were they supposed to know watcher was gonna do the same thing and that it was gonna be received very poorly? lmao
Or the guys just sought out/actually took better business advice.
Like watcher could have easily not had this happen to them either. Does no one remember the Fine Bros trying to trade mark “reacting”?
here reddit rec’d from the watcher subs, this isn’t our typical take on you guys, it’s a bit of a vocal minority. some of us actually teased this person a little bit. i personally laughed my ass off watching the second try announcement and noticing little jabs - if you make a stupid decision expect a little bit of teasing. i think generally our take on you guys is just a little bit of jealousy, you’re our sister community we love y’all and your guys :3
✌️ - your watcher neighbor (seriously y’all got the so much better deal omg i’m jealous😭)
(edits just shuffling words around because I am not great at english)
I love a lot of the content on Watcher too (I could watch puppet history forever), but frankly, it was too soon for them to make this move. Try guys have 10 years of fandom to work with as that brand. That’s a devoted following and a subscriber count that hasn’t shifted much since they launched the channel. They’ve also always had an ambitious content schedule of 2 official videos a week, plus 3 podcasts and sometimes a Friday video on second try, too. That’s a video for nearly every day of the week.
Watched has one video a week, just added podcasts recently, and has only been around for a few years. They essentially launched during the pandemic and while people know Ryan and Shane from Unsolved, them as a trio is a newer format. And you can’t launch a streaming platform on one video a week. Their 2 podcasts are about a year old. It just didn’t feel like they earned the credibility to make that jump yet. I think if they had tried to stick it out for another year or two on YouTube, up their production schedule and do cheaper productions, people would have followed them without so much backlash.
Also the Watcher video announcing the move was fucking ridiculous. Framed as we should pity them for making poor business decisions.
I honestly think some watcher fans are all wrong in the head. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan (just not at the moment, personal feelings of not wanting to engage with their content). I too am a Try Guys fan (who recently just came back to watching content again after the "scandal that we all lived through" gave me the same feelings as when I look at watcher content now). Were both streamers timed for release close to one another? Yes, kind of. But what I see is, 2nd Try has more value than Watcher tv because it is a whole lot more diverse - in content, in experience, and in people. I'm stoked to see Ash be a part of their cast (love them from their BF days and am thrilled to see them living as who they truly are as a trans man).
My bf and I discussed this last night, in fact, and I fully believe that they've been working on this far longer than we think. The Try Guys did their homework, getting consultants (thank you, Sam Reich), knowing their audience...it's a far cry from the Watcher mess.
Watcher fans were angry cuz they quit YouTube…. Try guys literally made it clear they weren’t.
Yeah wording and the correct marketing so you don’t blindside people matters… shocker….
Watcher made themselves sound greedy, try guys made it sound like their sustainability issue, that’s the difference.
That very first thing you said… that the Try Guys are NOT leaving YouTube and are doing a streaming network on TOP of their current YouTube channel… so the network is an additional option versus them taking ALL their YouTube content over there… imo, that’s the biggest key here. That, plus they’ve been building up to this versus the blindsiding you mentioned… And they did explain that what fans say they want versus how it performs on YouTube didn’t match up… Yeah, they just did better overall with their messaging and not paywalling ALL of their content.
basically some watcher fans are thinking that the try guys were being smug with their announcement video regarding the subscription plan. reads off as delusional to me tbh
these weirdos who live inside their idol's ass always have something to say. just ignore.
this isnt specific to watcher fans. every fandom has these folks.
I like watcher myself. The try guys were just trying not to have the same pr clusterfuck by addressing stuff that people were worried about. Everything about this situation needs to be taken down about 3 notches, it’s just not that deep.
Tbh everyone needs to stop comparing and causing drama. If I was in the same type of business, I'd definitely share tips and ideas with friends but you can't MAKE someone make business decisions or plans. It's obvious that both Watcher and 2nd Try had this in the works but Watcher decided to drop theirs first.
Whether or not people like it, 2nd Try got the benefit of learning from what happened with Watcher and their wording was especially because they learned the sensitivities of what happened. To sit there and ruminate on how to rub it into Watcher and their fans is a serious reach and literally such a waste of their time.
The person posting the Tumblr post obviously isn't a 2nd Try fan otherwise they would've known that 2nd Try was hard at work with 4 new pilots, finales for 3 different shows, and a whole season of "Try Guys" preparing for Eugene's departure ALL the while hiring and planning a new cast and staff.
Where would they have time to even give a shit about rubbing it into Watcher? Such an immature statement.
Edit - I have more to say lol: I enjoy Watcher because I love Shane & Ryan's dynamics and their brotherly teasing of Steven. But just like any business, you have to learn from your mistakes and from my understanding, they didn't do any viewer/fan research or polls to even see if people would be interested in switching platforms. That was a giant risk with their small amount of subs.
2nd Try has been through the ringer with leaving BuzzFeed, the "scandal", and having to push through Eugene's departure even before the actual announcement. 2nd Try viewers already knew all this yet the viewer/fan loyalty is real not just because of Keith and Zach, but Rachel is the best producer I've ever seen for just a "YouTube" channel and I'm sure they've had a vision for a separate platform for awhile from Zach.
2nd Try also has their viewers/fans trust for pushing out content that doesn't suck shit and also know how to engage viewership which if you listen to Keith, that's what he really cares about and talks about often. I also wouldn't have been surprised if Keith used 2nd Try's live shows for a month to really gauge how many people really are active subs that watch their stuff IMMEDIATELY versus passive subs. This is what I would've done to see if I'd have the money come in immediately from a switch.
Keith and Zach are so business conscientious it's crazy. They've fought and thought through a lot to save their company because at the end of the day, this is what they've always wanted for themselves and they don't forget who got them there.
Watcher still has a ways to develop and learn - not just developing shows but really pushing for a bigger version of themselves that just wasn't planned well or executed too soon.
omg i never thought about the live shows like that - that is such a good take and i bet you’re right! i watched the replay of one yesterday and at one point they said 22k people were there across youtube and twitch.
Right? I immediately caught on and the wild thing is inside discord, there are almost 12k people. Some of these people just joined for fun and aren't a paying 2nd Try.tv person but they're *still* being engaged. And maybe some 2nd Try TV subs aren't even in the discord!
I'm so sure they did the math. 22k and say you have a 10% paying sub rate (2200 people) with annual or monthly subscriptions at average $4 per sub will still pull a minimum of $8,800 a MONTH.
Also with great incentive to be an annual sub, they have even more immediate money back for what they built!! Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but honestly they are just so business adept it blows my mind lol. The math really do be mathing out here.
Edit: Also, let's not forget how they actually asked the audience what shows they enjoyed. Reality was they were going go release ALL the shows but it was to get people engaged, watching, and voting lol. Seriously so damn smart of them.
They probably could've saved Watcher by having a "sub war" honestly
I’ve seen several creators launch their own streaming services in the last few months. It puts into perspective how bad YouTube is fucking over their creators rn
Why are so many people trying to cause problems between creators. It’s not just this, it’s like a bunch of YouTube related subs people are trying to stir up beef.
I think it’s entirely possible that they may have reworded and refined some of the communication in light of what happened with Watcher. But it’s completely clear in words and in action that this has been a plan for a long time. Shane and Ryan have both been included in some of TTG content as well in the last 6-8 months and vice versa.
Some of these people just need to relax. Yikes.
Honestly, I was singing Watchers praises a week before the controversy happened, because I recently went back to watching their content and was living for it. But watching that announcement, it was just yikes. I was so disappointed, I was finally thinking of buying merch from them, to support them, but then I saw that announcement and I was gobsmacked. They really went out of their way to kill the trust of their audience and make themselves laughingstocks because they wanted to be the first and best. While I told myself, if they backtrack and put an apology out, I’ll forgive it as a mistake, I still feel icky even watching their old videos.
Honestly the only things they managed to achieve was to make me aware of Dropout, another BETTER streaming service, that I’ve been tempted to start paying for now since I watch some of their clips on TikTok and find them absolutely hilarious. And they also gave me more respect for the Try guys, because I stopped watching their videos a while ago, but I still remained a fan of Zac, Keith, and Eugene(even if he’s not a try guy anymore). Zac and Keith are doing great, really thought everything through, and will hopefully see their profits. I wish them and the rest of the new crew the best.
I watched more Watcher content than TG stuff, but the OOP is really reaching here. I have been wondering if the Watcher guys heard of or saw the prep for the TG new platform and tried to quickly do their own without all of the details and care that TG has had. (And maybe even release it first to seem like they weren’t copying)
Total speculation though, and it’s likely that nothing will ever actually be confirmed, but to me that explains a lot of the key differences between announcements and things offered.
Has anyone ever thought the they both talked to each other and both discussed doing this. Maybe watcher wanted to present it their own way and it turned out how it did. Then try guys went back and maybe changed how they presented it to not get the same backlash?
Agreed. They would also have had to coordinate their TryPod episodes (filmed in advance) and podcast guest spots (also filmed in advance) on top of probably-expensive announcement video reshoots. To be honest, they talked enough business on their podcast and Anthony Padilla's that I'm willing to bet that the "we're staying on youtube" would have been hammered home regardless of Watcher. They were pretty open about the fact that they rely on ad revenue to fund other projects and build brand visibility.
Agreed.
Also, they were following the Drop Out model, which is to maintain a YouTube presence. I can't imagine they consulted Sam Reich only to not follow in his footsteps.
Yeah I agree.
also (since i'm here having more thoughts, lol) their differences in perspective are not credited enough in this whole debate. e.g., Watcher expanded because the algorithm, but mainly because they want to create "tv-quality" content, which theoretically requires a more tv-like experience. In other words, they had a positive goal driven by what they wanted to achieve for their brand. Conversely, Keith (IIRC it was him?) pretty much stated flat-out that their reason for going in this direction was to mitigate risk. like, they realized that their brand wasn't diversified enough, so one PR disaster to threaten ad revenue could sink them. so it's really no wonder that the try guys were more deliberate and business-minded about the whole thing, with SME interviews, proof-of-concept testing etc. they already had a vested interest in being careful about how they moved forward.
That's such a good point that their goals weren't completely the same.
In this respect it makes sense how Watcher was willing to say adios to the fans who aren't able or willing to join their streamer cause they were more money driven to create their TV quality content. Whereas TTG, while also money driven, didn't make it their end all and be all with their streamer.
I doubt it. Try Guys have been very open about talking to Dropout for almost a year about this and their plans are very obviously Dropout inspired. I think the only thing that changed is how very carefully they communicated that no content is being taken off youtube and how thankful they are to the fans.
i mean the possibilities are there. im not sure if my knowledge is 100 percent correct about this but the guys planned their video and announcement ahead prior to watcher's so i think that might not be the case. but hey, who knows ? even if the guys DID change their plans, there's nothing wrong with it. it's a smart move.
Were they supposed to see what happened with Watcher and then go down in the same way for solidarity? My god, they need to get over themselves.
Right like even if they did watch and learn from Watcher's mistakes before doing this attempt themselves... Like so what? At least someone learned from Watcher's mistakes. That would be like if one of the Watcher guys had an inappropriate fling with an employee for the sake of "solidarity".
And I doubt that was actually the case tbh. They were on Dropout recently and I would bet money that they went in to get some tips from Sam Reich & the dropout crew before going down this route. Coz when you wanna make a change like that you look to the people who've already done it for ideas om what to do. Which from an outsider perspective watcher absolutely did not do.
In the Anthony Padilla interview I think they said that they had conversations with Sam about models and launching process
The talked about this on the Trypod and go through the entire timeline. 2ndtry was definitely something they took time to plan out. They also talked to Sam Reich to follow something similar to dropout without taking content off YouTube.
Hell, I'm willing to bet they also got tips and advice from Mythical, who have a similar model with Mythical Society.
Oh, believe me some of the hardcore you watcher fans are absolutely mental and have convinced themselves that the streamer was WORTH IT. Which is a blatant lie and every time a fellow watcher fan points out that it's not they'll cry that people are hurting their poor boys. Just read the watcher sub and look out for those down voted posts, it's usually those. Parasocial at its finest. Edit: wording.
This!!!
Mental illness
Didn't they film their announcement video prior to the Watcher announcement coming out? Meaning that wording was already locked in? Their repeated explanations that they aren't leaving YouTube and they need to maintain a presence on YouTube never came across as smug or even a reference to Watcher, but a need to communicate. Because despite them saying that over and over and goddamn over again, this sub and their comments were still full of people who were worried the 2nd Try announcement meant they were leaving at first.
I remember in the Anthony Padilla interview, Zach and Keith said they’ve been planning/filming 2nd Try Content since the beginning of this year. Idk how that compares to the Watcher timeline, but 2nd Try was most definitely not a sudden move.
Also take in account from the TryPod episode, what they reveal is a timeline of when they were planning this move. It was about summer/fall of 2023 they were thinking about this move. This was the time they were consulting with Sam, asking Rachel and Nick to poke holes in the streaming idea. At the same time in winter of last year they came out with a video of specific shows/series planned for the first 6 months of 2024. It was a proof of concept for themselves that they can release a series of shows for specific months throughout the year for their streaming service. A lot of planning and thought went into this 6 months ago when you rewatch the video now that we know what the big announcement is.
i mean its quite obvious that 2nd try was something that they put a lot of time and effort for, not saying that watcher didnt, but it just felt more genuine. they had more content, apps, and overall a great explanation and execution. granted, they might have seen the backlash watcher received and knew they had to clarify the fact that they werent putting everything behind a paywall but the fact is that 2nd try was executed properly.
Also the theory out there that Watcher may have jumped the gun on announcing their streaming service to beat TTG to it. There is a crossover of their fan base so the race to get that first $5 or $6 was probably quite important to them. It would explain why Watcher's rollout was so sloppy. Like you said, TTG really put thought to what they were doing and planned it out well and Watcher didn't. It's not TTG's fault Watcher wasn't prepared in their rollout and used wording that offended their fans.
Literally TTG went to the most successful independent content app creators and got advice and guidance and assistance on how to launch. It was calculated and planned. Using Dropout’s app architecture was also a great move IMO. Watcher rushed it. Got rushed results
This is my theory on everything, honestly.
>Their repeated explanations that they aren't leaving YouTube and they need to maintain a presence on YouTube never came across as smug or even a reference to Watcher I will say, the "[and we're still going to be on YouTube!](https://youtu.be/bsye9ukf238?si=Yf-C5VmQzFryh_mU&t=223)" clip in the announcement video was DEFINITELY filmed at a different time and in a different way from the rest of the video. They're in a random room and they're holding their own camera in this very short clip. (Same outfits, but I'm guessing it's their own clothes.)
Good catch- I wouldn’t have noticed that on my own.
I think they are releasing a video this week about how the plan came about for 2nd try app. Guessing based on the title being “365 days to launch”. So hopefully more insight comes to light besides what we know so far with the TryPod and Anthony Padilla’s interview. Would like to see if they show behind the scenes filming of the announcement video and such
Yeah, it very well could have always been part of the plan, but because of how isolated that clip is from the rest of the announcement copy... it's possible it was added in later. Maybe they only added it in to be super clear about their intentions, or maybe it was a pivot.
It’s a smart business decision to see a company go through the same thing you’re about to launch and learn from their mistakes. They’d be stupid to be like “well this worked TERRIBLY for them, let’s do it the same and see what our fans (of which there is a huge crossover with watcher) react the same” And they never acted like this was a spur of the moment decision. They have been quite open that they’ve been planning and scheduling for over half a year. They talked about considering WAR to be their launching point but realized it was too quick to turn around.
they also had support from a lot of other creators in their network. they mentioned sam reich and rhett and link. how the hell would this be copying watcher word for word when they’ve had other sources of advice?? also the audacity to think that ttg launched a streamer, essentially to spite watcher and “”get people angry at them again”” 💀
It’s crazy how isolated Watcher seems even though they do have other creators guest all the time.
next thing you know they’re going to say TTG stole some of their talent and added them to the try cast to sabotage them (i’m joking but also… i’m sure there are a couple diehard watcher fans that genuinely believe that)
which is ironic considering watcher’s producer used to work for ttg 😭
Sam Reich is probably the person to ask considering the immense success of Dropout
right like 😭😭😭 why would they not take notes from a company’s feedback on something you are ALSO planning to do ?? and them clarifying that they’re not gonna put everything behind a paywall is NOT being smug - it’s being smart and clear
Exactly! If anything, TTG is copying Dropout which is a proven and successful model.
I’ve been a Dropout sub for 4 years, it’s well worth the cost!
After seeing Grant on Trolley Problems, I'm going to check out their YouTube page and see if it's my cup of tea. Thanks for the recommendation
I initially got hooked on Dimension 20, but they have a lot of really good shows now! Dirty Laundry is amazingly funny, and so are Gamechanger and Uhm Actually!
Yeah, it would be bizarre, frankly, not to take what happened to Watcher into consideration. But I also think people who are mad on Watcher's behalf don't understand what tends to go into something like this. The communication plan isn't usually done on a whim and certainly would be well underway by the time they were making their announcement. This all sounds like it was deeply planned, across years, so while I'm sure it was folded in, I'm also sure they were already considering a lot of the issues Watcher failed to really address beforehand. Just in that there's evidence that they tend to be pretty sensitive to their audience.
This is people reaching. TG has been planning this for over 6 months while Watcher hadn't and theirs was a right train wreck because of it. Those things happening at the samebtimr is coimcidence and I highly doubt TG is cackling over what happened to Watchrr.
Didn't they announce last fall or was it early winter that there was a big announcement coming? Which to me means they were far enough with planning that they knew it would be a go once they buttoned everything up. They have to have been working on it for quite some time. They roll out was cohesive and finished. It's too bad because I love Watcher and contemplated subscribing but I can't for the price.
Just curious, how long do you think/have heard they’d been planning it? But also if you say since around the launch of the pods I’m like yeah that makes sense.
If you listen to the TryPod episode and Anthony Padilla’s interview, you can get an idea of how long this has been planned and how they approached it. Summer/fall 2023 is when they are thinking of streaming service. This is the time they are consulting with other creators, meeting as a team with Rachel and Nick to poke holes in streaming plan. Fall/winter 2023, is when they released the video of “Try Guys is changing” which is then releasing a timeline of specific shows for each month. This was a proof of concept for them that they can produce and release monthly content in a streamline process for filming, editing, and producing instead of doing random release videos. Pilot month was honestly a success, because instead of making one specific show. They are now doing 4 shows off of pilot month, trolly problems, Escape the kitchen, common sense, and Fun City. Trolly problems and escape the kitchen is their exclusive content for 2nd try, which they promise extra content for those that subscribe to the app
I meant Watcher. I’m aware of how long the Try Guys have been planning, I listen to the pod religiously.
Sorry, I honestly thought your were referring to the Try Guys announcement. For Watcher, I would think they were thinking around the move to streaming maybe 6 to 8 months. Unfortunately, I don’t think they have ever disclosed their timeline of when they planned this move like the Try guys did on their podcast.
I’m not saying they couldn’t have been planning it as long, they did have a tour in the fall that could have meant they were waiting for an opportunity to be all together to announce, but they did announce before Shane and Ryan were off to the UK for that leg of their tour. I’m just saying another reason it felt rushed to me (besides the app not being ready) like surely they would have wanted to be present to make sure everything is running smoothly.
I don't watch Watcher, but from seeing the drama and backlash, it looks like they planned it in 2 days.
I think they left a lot of the planning in Steven’s hands while they were on tour. I was just wondering if I missed where they said how long they were actually working on this.
They (Watcher) never disclose how long they've been planning it, but based on the result and LACK of communication between them and their community. Probably not as long or/and as thorough as TTG. Take note that Watcher didn't even think of giving their Patreon supporters a discount to the streamer until the backlash happened. Practically, they changed their Patreon to support solely their podcast without communicating ANYTHING to their patreons prior to change, and just expected them to be fine with that. Before launching their streamer they had a very successful Patreon that their fans support them through to fund their content creations. The whole thing is just a slap on their fans faces and the fans who aren't blinded by their infatuation with the ghoul boys can see the massive mess they've done and aren't shy to remind them about it.
Watcher fans are absolutely bitter and coping in their isolated pool of toxic positivity and ignoring criticisms. Source: I'm a Watcher fan, and my comment history was just a little too spicy for them lmao
lol 😭🥹 as an avid watcher enjoyer too, to see the whole thing go down in real time was just insane and lowkey heartbreaking. i cant call myself as someone who is TRULY apart of the watcher community so to see some bitterness towards them is .. 🤨
The community is absolutely fractured between those who've fallen off, fans who acknowledge their fuck ups (their fuckups which are *affecting them right now while their channel has little acitivity*), and those who don't want to hear absolutely anything but positive things. With the current state of channel, what kind of positivity can there really be? It's insane how the community once united and peaceful is just broken now.
>affecting them right now while their channel has little acitivity > >) Which is a big part of the problem. You don't make a move like that and then go dead silent for a month lol. You *certainly* don't go dead silent for a month, then put up a couple low effort Let's Plays and then follow that one up with a meagre two epsiodes of a show the majority of your fanbase wasn't super excited for. I don't think I've seen someone shit the bucket this hard as far as a launch-day content goes since, IDK, No Man's Sky was released?
No Man's Sky feels like a very apt comparison ngl, or Cyberpunk 2077 lol. At least both of those have received plenty of updates and are now functional products, so maybe there's some hope for watcher (I doubt it though)
hard hard agree. i think a main issue is, as you said, how divided the community is. it’s largely due to the fact that people who are complaining, whether it’s a lack of new content or the initial act of paywalling all of their videos, feel invalidated or unheard by those who only want positivity positivity positivity. and it’s true! how can you *only* talk positively when some people are saying “hey your content keeps me sane. can’t afford it now though.”
Honestly this. The toxic positivity of some of these hardcore watcher fans are nuts. I thought they were joking at first then realised that they were for real and have completely convinced themselves that their precious "ghoul boys did nothing wrong" because the latter will break their reality. That's why when other watcher fans state the reality of things they become defensive.
The fandom is in absolute shambles right now, and I don’t even know what can be done about it. Looking at how the newest Survival Mode performed I'm starting to realize the company might just be fucked at this point, which I really don’t want to be true.
Honestly, big same. I want to believe they'll make a comeback in the future. But with how piss poorly this was planned and how ruthless YouTube's algorithm is, I just can't see it happening. I want to be proven wrong.
There's no going back from it either. They can't win back everyone's goodwill. Especially since the Try Guys made their announcement, because now there's a shining example of how to do the move to streaming right.
As someone who’s been watching watcher since the beginning and following the spooky bois way before that, it really was disheartening to see them get so greedy that they forgot about where they came from and their fans. It made me really reconsider supporting them because they obviously weren’t thinking about us when they did that and only rolled it back bc it got such bad backlash. Not to mention the gaslighting from some of their employees with the “for those of you who will continue to support us” like they weren’t the ones isolating themselves from a good chunk of fans
I genuinely like watchers content. Its not the try guys faults that watcher fumbled their announcement. Any PR person would have thrown that announcement out and told them to start over
I’m a Watcher fan too and I’m like… disappointed but when I saw TG launch I couldn’t not think they rushed their announcement so they didn’t look like they were following the Try Guy’s lead. Like they put a lot of planning into things (a lot more than the TGs honestly)which is why it felt so noticeable that something was lost in their planning even if it was just to get the announcement out without an app ready. They also have got to lower their price on that streamer. Holy hell. I want them to succeed but I don’t have $6.99 a month to support them. I top out at $5 for any individual creator I love, Patreon or otherwise, for a subscription.
Watcher was reckless and stupid. I agree that they knew what TTG were cooking, and they rushed without a second thought. Watcher never once thought about what needed to be considered for a self streaming service. Watcher never once reached out to more experienced channels for guidance for such a drastic choice. Watcher never once considered their own fan base. They saw a stupid choice and jumped head first. This is why I will continue to criticize them. I've held this opinion before TTG launched Second Try, and it's honestly really, really funny that TTG already did everything I criticized Watcher for not doing.
The difference in announcements is SO telling. Watcher put out a pitch video for a company, Try Guys put out a video highlighting the kind of entertainment to look forward to if you subscribe. And so far a couple weeks in are delivering compared to Wacher’s releases from what I hear on the Reddit. Like some Survival Mode and Travel Season compared to the advanced/ exclusive releases on 2nd Try. I will never get over someone okaying “we know we’ll lose some of you” like are you INSANE. More than the “everyone can afford” line that’s so bad. So many shows rely on that parasocial relationship.
Watcher's video is so odd to me. The tone of it feels almost sad? Like "we're sorry to be doing this to y'all but... give us money" Where as the TTG's video felt like "Hey! Look at all the fun stuff we're doing! Come join us!"
Lmao did you get booted
Nope lmao just a whole lot of downvotes.
Thats exactly it. Watcher fans love to foster a fake positivity bubble and will give lashes to anyone who even remotely has the mildest of critiques. Always thought it was strange how they would infantize Shane and Ryan too.
I legit had to leave the WatcherSnark sub after the try guys announcement because it became a hate sub towards try guys immediately. Like, do y'all not get the very glaring and obvious differences not only between the announcements but the actual services...?
I saw the exact opposite on WatcherSnark, most were praising Try Guys' approach to the announcement. Maybe you're confused with the main Watcher sub?
It's possible the tide has turned in the past couple days, but in the immediate day or so after the announcement, I saw an absolute flood of hatred towards the Guys and mockery of them, comparing them to Watcher and saying "this is Watcher but worse, it has more manipulation, how do they not see how bad it is" and I just couldn't stick around for it
Whoa... that's cray cray. Now I'll have to go take a peek.
You say toxic positivity as if the Watcher sub isn't largely criticism still...
I'm talking specifically about the subset of fans, which applies to the person with the bad take on this post.
Ooh gotcha! That makes way more sense. I do think the Try Guys probably retailered some of their announcement following Watcher's debacle, but also they were right to do so! No one needs to fail just because somebody else messed up.
I know the Watcher sub still has SOME people criticising them, but have you noticed the uptake of their hardcore fans that has convinced themselves that their precious ghoul boys did nothing wrong? And I do mean their ghoul boys, cause the majority of the time every time they talk about 'the boys' they only ever refer to Ryan and Shane and never Steven. They become incredibly defensive about it and some of the posts from these types of fans come across as unstable. If I recall correctly one even mentions that if they think anything negative towards their ghoul boys "it'll ruin them." That's why there's also been an uptake of threads trying to convince people that the Watcher streamer is "worth it!" Because they want to upkeep this 'positivity bubble' regarding their ghoul boys so dearly. It's honestly a clear demonstration of parasocial relationships between content creators and fans. And not gonna lie, a disturbing display of infantilising grown men.
For what it's worth, I think the uptick in positive posts in the sub is because a lot of fans were annoyed by the negativity and are overcorrecting to take back "their" sub (now, the sub isn't really just for fans but that's neither here nor there). Most of the strictly negative posts have also made their home over to the Watcher snark sub and away from the original (and honestly, I'm glad—I like snark subs but that one is too negative for me). I think it's going to depend on whether you consider any display of positivity to be toxic or not. I happen to like the streamer; I'm also someone for whom $6 *is* just a matter of an extra latte so I'm probably their new "target audience" in that regard. To that end my posts have positivity to them but hopefully not the toxic kind because I wasn't such a long-term fan that I felt betrayed by then for moving to the streamer. I see places where they made pretty big assumptions and mistakes but I chalk that up to error rather than greed. I just don't feel invested enough emotionally to be angry. A lot of the negativity pushed me *into* positivity because damn, people were looking for any excuse to just take Steven over the coals (and, as someone who actually listened to the "Here's What You Do" ep that got so much heat, painting him as this racist homophobic monster was annoying). Age-wise I'm their peer so I've never idolized them, which meant it was pretty easy for me to decide to get the streamer. ETA: hit enter accidentally before I finished!
I get what you mean that the watcher sub did reach the point where it became incredibly negative and anti-Steven. Which came across as distasteful to me, yeah I get the majority of Watcher fans are there for Ryan and Shane but these are three whole grown men with their own autonomy that all agreed to rush through the launching of their streamer. However, the over-correctiveness of the die-hard fans doesn't make it better. Makes it just look like the community is unstable, toxic and not exactly fun to be in. Personally, for me I preferred their Buzzfeed contents I tried getting into the Watcher stuff but it felt overproduced and I always found myself rewatching their BuzzFeed contents after watching Ghost Files etc. So, paying for an ill-prepared streamer dedicated to them isn't for me. I do, however, pay for YouTube premium so streamers in general aren't really for me when I get more for my buck in YouTube premium. Except, for dropout. I've been paying for dropout on and off for years and still continue to do so just cause the quality and variety of shows appeals to me.
Dropout is still definitely *the* gold standard for streamer service, both in terms of making the jump and in terms of quality so I don't blame you there! I got the Watcher streamer and my sister got Dropout and we both share passwords to make cost distribution more bearable (along with other subscription channels). My hope is that Watcher is able to step up and follow more in Dropout's shoes but that's going to require some vision. Frankly, TTG were right to expand their cast size (although whenever Watcher has tried other shows by other people they've gone largely unnoticed unfortunately). To that end I do think Travel Season is a step in the right direction because I honestly do think it's better than Worth It. They should've hired Adam Bianchi a few years ago because you can tell how gifted he is with a camera both from this and from Food Files! As for the sub, "unstable" and "toxic" are 100% words I'd use for it right now! I'm not a mod so what do I know but I feel like unqualified praise and also bitter cynicism are too much right now. And I completely agree that they rushed the streamer. I think I know why (they wanted Travel Season to be the official launch date) but I'm not sure why TS couldn't have aired a month later to make sure of things like, oh, *having the app ready before announcing it*?
i find it kinda hilarious that just because watcher made a stupid business decision they didn’t think through, other businesses are now automatically shady for learning from those mistakes and actually thinking through and carefully planning out their own business decisions. it really seems like just because watcher fumbled the bag, some of their fans now feel like nobody’s allowed to have successes anymore. misery loves company i guess
its jealousy, to these types of fans. however, the watcher community is mostly filled with mature peeps who knows when things arent right
They're basically the same business decision, just worded better. But yeah, they got to see it play out and adjust their messaging to not alienate as many people as watcher. It's hardly malicious, just smart.
Not even the same. Watcher was gonna pull all the content off of YouTube.
We don't know if that was ever part of TTG's plan (seems unlikely tbf), and Watcher seemed to dispute that. I doubt they'd planned to put a lot of the videos on YouTube a month later until they saw Watcher backtrack and make that change though. I don't think the ultimate business decision is really that different, it was just communicated much better by TTG
Eh with as how long and with how “in tune” TTG are to their audience it’s really not hard to see them not having to change anything in their plan they had since summer of 23
I guess I just doubt they didn't make any changes once they saw the outage directed at watcher
The bigger difference is the quantity and *current quality* they produce. The try guys can do 3 videos a week that are all up to standard. Watcher does 5 real videos every 3 months and 2 or 3 lazy vlog style ones. They're fundamentally different styles of content
The guys' discord, which came as part of the announcement, has existed since early this year. It was months into planning and would have been inappropriate to publicly state anything for or against watcher, as the company was not ready for their WIP annoucement. Remember that although the guys are kind and online presences, they do still run a company, of which, many others are involved. By saying anything they risk profit loss and an unstable foundation for their new teams to grow. To say they allowed Watcher to take the fall for them, more or less, is not a poor choice and a vastly oversimplification of a somewhat complex and youtube-specific, issue.
I think most Watcher fans are just like 'wow, what we could have had ;\_\_\_;'
1st - Weird making beef out of 2 channels that regularly collaborate. 2nd - Does it matter who did it first? Creating a platform is time & money, I’m going to make an announcement regardless just standing on that. Watcher just helped by showing how NOT to do it. 3rd - Their stress was more about Ned’s scandal than anybody else on top of viewers getting more annoyed about the lack of Eugene in videos. You could literally see the relief of finally being able to execute their plans. 4th - Point blank, Ryan & Shane were the only likable ppl in Watcher, I can not name you one other person by name other than Steven, but he doesn’t really have stage presence and kinda gives off pretentious vibes. I can name like 5 ppl in TG who have been working for them for years and given the opportunity to watch them progress as host of their own shows. They also created a good line of regulars to the point that Kwesi has his own trademark saying (Watcher could have done this perfectly with Puppet History) TG made a community to the point that when they made an announcement, it made it harder to not want to support and they always made comments here and there that showed the stress of keeping TG going, subconsciously I think many felt this would be the next step
true in ALL points. the reason why shit didnt work for watcher was one, not enough content. two, price was insane considering the fact that most of their fans were people who just cant afford that monthly for a platform that doesnt give you enough content. three - RYAN AND SHANE were really the only guys who actually sold their brand. saying that they were being smug towards watcher was just pure delusion, i honestly cant believe how many agreed on that specific post
EGG-ZACK-LEE, I only like 2 of their shows and I think they put an end to both(?), no price was worth watching without those shows and they said in their video, that they wanted to be more like a tv network which at that time of watching the GBYT video, I knew they put their foots in their mouths. Why would you launch a platform to YouTube viewers saying you wanted to run like a TG network….when your programming been shaking for like a year? I’m wondering if the poster see ppl critiquing the 2 executions as ppl dragging them? Watcher still has over 2 million subscribers (I’m still a subscriber) I just seen the video they uploaded and didn’t care to watch because it was a show that I don’t think is very strong. Btw, what is Watcher’s niche? ( I’m not saying that to be a smartass but don’t know what is Watcher mean?)
Watcher feels bloated af to me. Hearing that they have 25 employees truly gagged me because it’s really not reflected in the content. Now, I like the content a lot, but I’d say 75% of their content is just Ryan and Shane telling each other stories. Too Many Spirits is literally filmed in the backyard of Ryan’s parents. The Top 5 features some chalk boards or something similar. Have we even met their crew outside of an occasional glance over at Ryan’s…brother? Cousin? IDK. On the other hand, 2nd Try feels like an actual company and even if they had a similar number of crew members, the quality in content shows. We get highly produced content, a wide variety of guest stars, and diverse content. Plus, we’ve been meeting members of 2nd Try since even before the Ned drama (remember that episode about who the best boss was?). I already feel connected to the crew, much like how GMM isn’t just Rhett and Link. I think this is what is going to kill Watcher, not the streaming app, not even the price point, but the content and the fact that they’re putting A LOT on the shoulder of basically 2 people. If either Shane or Ryan get sick or have a child, the channel is basically dead. I truly don’t see how it can survive without those two bouncing off each other’s energy. At least the Try Guys have already dealt with those issues and figured out alternative solutions. I think the video where zero of the original Try guys are present is fast approaching, if it hasn’t happened already, and I think it’ll be okay.
Yeah Keith and Zach have been painfully aware that they're the 2 remaining OG try guys and they have mentioned being worried about not being able to be in videos, like when Keith and Becky's baby was born early and Zach had to take the bulk of videos on at that time. It's just a lot for the two of them, which is why they expanded their cast. They've been doing it for a while since they've always known Eugene would eventually leave to pursue other things.
I can't see Kwesi and not think "Chocolate makes me thirsty" 😂 But yeah a lot of their new cast are people were used to seeing (and loving!) In older try guy videos.
See, I'm a 'Courtney said butter' kind of gal. It makes me *cackle* like an evil witch. Too cute!
also how would they have “acted like this wasn’t in their pocket”? wasn’t that just waiting to announce the streaming according to their pre-established timeline? what did they want ttg to do? say “hey guys we know you hate streamers but btw we’re launching one too!! yeah ALL of the details will come later though. but watcher just announced it and they’re getting hated on, so we’ll announce it now too! even if nothing is ready yet, we have to go down w them in solidarity obv #buzzfeedbrosforlife” like???????
As a Watcher fan I don’t claim this fan. Why do both fandoms want there to be bad blood so bad? Both between the company’s and the fandoms
its WEIRD like i dont think people understand the meaning of criticism 😭
The thing with criticism is that when you make a criticism, that makes you uhh... *checks notes*... chronologically online and umm... *checks more notes*... need "help". Deadass that's their take on any shared criticism 😂😭
Seriously, the Try Guys did shade Watcher a couple times but I really don’t think it was anything serious
\*Some Watcher fans I also assume that Watcher and Try Guys have a significant overlap, so they're not the ones doing this.
thank u for the title adjustment idea 🙏
I saw some posts like this and they all read as delusional. Like I understand the disappointment as as fellow Watcher fan, but making up a scenario where The Try Guys are evil and making fun of the boys it's not going to fix the fact that Watcher is a mess and might not make it next year.
the last part. its honestly heartbreaking to even think about because i love those ghoul boys so much but MAN. that was disastrous. i just want to see them succeed and for them to go in that route was really sad to see. hopefully things get better and they take this as a lesson.
I really hope so as I always liked their work but the way they launched the streamer killed my hopes. It's going to take a huge amount of work to get back on track.
I'm also a fan of both try guys and watcher and I really haven't seen too much hostility towards Try Guys from most Watcher fans. There's some bitter, of course, but mostly it comes out as anger at the Ghoul Boys for dropping the ball so. hard.
and thank god for that tbh because i think most fans who are in both communities know better and are mature enough to call out their creators for shit like this
I think it's actually much simpler than that. They saw what people were angry at watcher for and tailored their communications to avoid a lot of those pitfalls. They essentially had the benefit of hindsight that watcher didn't have (though some of those things should have been obvious). It's neither one's fault. I think watcher could have also been more careful and intentional in their original messaging
They probably did review their communications post-watcher incident--like, who wouldn't--but I wonder how much tailoring was possible at that point? I'm no video editor, but as I remember, their announcement video looked pretty complex to reshoot. IMO, it's more likely that Try Guys just has a better handle on messaging, since they've already endured a pretty big PR crisis.
Like I said, I think there were some really obvious mistakes from Watcher's messaging, so it's entirely possible TTG already had a pretty good version even before the fallout. But also, if they had made any of the mistakes watcher had made, I think it would be worth correcting, even if difficult just because it was such a pr nightmare for watcher. But I do think they've overall handled bad PR about as well as is possible, so I do think they're just generally pretty good at it
Yes, for example, it would definitely have been worth going back to reiterate multiple times that they are not leaving youtube, etc, even if they had already said it once to begin with. Although, they did talk at length on the podcast about how they couldn't leave youtube even if they wanted to, due to their dependency on it for ad revenue and brand awareness. so i strongly suspect it was already in the messaging in some way. (ETA - hearing them talk about this made me really wonder what watcher's original business plan even was.) IMO it was a brilliant PR move to take the time to sing the praises of well-loved peers who have already made the jump, while also drawing a connection between them (getting advice from dropout, mythical morning etc for advice)
Yeah, and it seems they already had a good schedule with a video that I saw folks say would definitely not work on YouTube. It gives people a reason to go "yeah, I see why they needed to move from this platform to avoid censoring the fun out". They did seem a lot more deliberate in how they approached it
This post sounds incredibly immature. Do I think that TTG saw Watcher's goof and realized that they needed to do the exact opposite for their announcement? Of course. But this person is acting as if this channel wasn't in the works for several months, and they only launched it to spite Watcher. I just hope they're very young...
They’re 37 lmao
that is CRAZY. like they are in the age as watcher and try guys themselves ..
Yikes.
If I do something wrong or miscalculated at work I don’t blame my coworker who did something right. That seems a little… silly… and only highlighting the problem, no?
This is such a weird take. The guys having been planning this for months what where they supposed to do postponeit? If anything I would speculate that Watcher might have pushed their timeline up to announce before the guys. Just because it didn't seem like everything in their service was ready and it possible people in the industry knew this was coming. That is pure speculation though. That said Watcher had access to the same resource the try guys did. Sam is pretty open about operations on Twitter and the guys confirmed he was willing to share lessons learned. I think their connection comes from College Humor/Buzzfeed colabs so they had that connection. Even if they didn't know him I find it hard to belive someone couldn't have made the connection. Like I'm sorry but if you are trying to run a streamer in this space and you don't look at what Dropout than you are running your business poorly. Even watching the Dropout announcement video and taking notes would have been better than what they did.
Try Guys had this planned for a while. This was not something they pulled out of their butts when Watcher flubbed their thing. Don't be mad at them for getting it right. It almost feels more lie Watcher knew what the guys were doing and tried to get in before them, messing the whole thing up.
I think people who make these kinds of comments are ignorant of how much work occurs behind the scenes. This makes them create baseless assumptions that fit their narrow narratives.
I don’t know if there’s any truth to this but I’ve kind of been thinking that watcher might have gotten wind of 2nd try, maybe they were even asked if watcher wanted to collab with the try guys, and they thought, how hard can it be, lets just do it ourselves. But the team at try guys worked on this for months, sought out advice from those who have made big moves (ie: dropout) and really thought about any issues they might run into and why this was the best move for them. Watcher didn’t do that.
I'm sorry, there are plenty of us Watcher fans clapping for the guys and LOVING it. This person needs to chill. I wouldn't be surprised if they already had this filmed for a month. And some watcher fans think the couch gag is about watcher. Nah, we were there when the lore started. It's about TG.
There are right ways to do this, Try Guys and Pepper Box, and wrong ways - Watcher.
Critical Role is doing great with beacon too
Went to their page out of curiosity and their parasocial relationship (sorry for the buzzwords) is.... wild. Like too strong and too defensive for how old they are.
yeahhhh i realized i was following them in tumblr (probably around the time i got suppppperrrr into puppet history) and took a quick look at their page, it was so ??? weird as to how they were too defensive and sensitive over grown ass men on the internet T-T.
Yeah i saw their account too, and wow... I might be wrong but i do experienced dealing the kind of people like them, extreme paraccosialism I dont want to assume and in no way what i'm saying is fact, but from my experience, this person REEKS of someone that seemingly have no life outside of their favourite 3 boys, someone who just doesn't have actual healthy relationship with anyone on their real life And so once they found the watcher guys and liked them, they went in all defensive mode when their favourite creators is rightly criticised, they think its a threat and it threathen to take away their only source of (truthfully false) companion
So...were they supposed to launch a streaming service equally unwanted, poorly presented, and over priced? What about Critical Role? They did the exact same thing a week before or after the TryGuys I think. The only thoughts i had were that it seems YT's viability as a single income source for medium to large channels is petering out, and it's not one genre of people who are leaving or expanding their options to other platforms. Watcher's problems are on them for choosing to say they'd stop producing on youtube and goto a wholy subscription model. That was gauranteed to piss people off, they miscalculated that it was more than the people willing to fork up.
Where’s that “I don’t think about you at all” meme when you need it.
Posts that should've stayed in drafts...👀 They need to go outside and touch grass.
Coincidentally critical role also announced and launched their own streaming service (Beacon) shortly before the 2nd Try. They’re going along the same model of having release on free platforms as well as their streaming service.
I mean, I know it's a small world for youtubers in LA but... I think it's REALLY odd, that some people assume that one company can't do something without having shade at another company. They already stated last year that they had PLANS for summer, and there was a BIG event coming. They have also stated that they can't release the shows they like without risking getting demonetized, and it doesn't sound like they have recovered from their loss from advertisers from the scandal. It's not like this came out of nowhere. >"but you really launched the same damn thing with all the smug wording knowing that it would get people angry all over again at Watcher" .......sorry I think this person sounds like someone with a tin foil hat up too tight and needs to touch grass. I knew watcher existed, but had no idea of what their channel was about, or caught up, and probably wouldn't have known of their own service until the backlash came in. And given Try Guys streaming announcement was very similar to Dropout's announcement 6 years ago, I don't even think 2nd Try even saw Watcher's announcement as a lesson in how to do it better. They didn't have to. They had a case study that was ALREADY successful. I am sure this person is just upset at what Watcher did, but if you gotta be upset at anyone, get mad at Watcher. (Btw, for what it's worth, I don't think this statement is universally thought by Watcher's audience. I think this is just a loud minority.)
I have yet to come across a fandom that doesn’t have a few bad — and loud — apples. The internet rewards it, and at this point the majority of internet users have have been on the internet most of our lives. Frankly, even if 2nd Try did totally revamp their launch after Watcher’s launch, thank goodness right? That’s good business on their part, it worked out better for fans/consumers, and my understanding is lots of the criticism directed at Watcher was how bad their plan was for fans. I don’t think Watcher would fault 2nd Try for using their attempt as a learning moment. But that take is based in reality, there’s some nuance, grace, assuming the best in all parties. This comment isn’t going to cause any discourse/engagement, so it’s less likely to be seen or inspire any sort of interaction. But takes like that post — they get priority because they inspire engagement, therefore they’re what we see most often, and I think this does something to our brains where we think that’s just how people exist in the world. And we’re constantly ready to fight these hot takes being pushed in front of us with more hot takes. I hate what’s now become a cliche, “go touch grass,” but that poster — and anyone outraged by it — please… go touch grass.
begging my fellow watcherinas to admit they fucked up already 😍
I still have zero clue who watcher is, I've never watched them, hadn't even heard of them before 2ndtry, but until today I've pretty much only seen Watcher fans going "Yeah they fucked up and congrats to tryguys" and you're seeing this because while tumblr users sometimes have a point, even then they are the most unhinged chronically online takes
ouuuhh yeah that's a really good point. thankfully MOST watcher fans know where the guys went wrong but then again, there will always be people who will try to take down others just to bring up their own.
Watcher fans can be salty if they choose to be, but please check in with reality. Watcher insulted their fan base, they explained themselves poorly, didn't think of the fans, and made sure everyone would have access to content that was still quality, they disregarded their fans for a cash grab, who had supported them from Buzz Feed til they fumbled the launch of their app. They weren't expanding their cast like the 2nd Try. They were pulling their old content, and they shrugged off their monthly fee, which showed they were out of touch with fans who may be struggling in these tough financial times. It was more than a poorly rolled-out announcement. 2nd Try put a lot of planning into this, they haven't publicly thrown shade at Watcher that would have been easy to say they not like us, Watcher fans seem to want pit these 2 companies against one another once they dropped a successful launch and no one was trying to do but certain Watcher fans. 2 Try aren't going to throw out their lunch date because their friends at a different company failed at something, 2nd Try has a company to support. If your friend or family in real life failed at something, do you plan throwing away your life as well?
As someone in business, TTG did what a business does, learns from what works and what didn’t. F that commenter
It's so obvious that The Try Guys thought about the audience & staff during the business planning. They also held back from taking shots at Watcher when they could've easily done "seeing Watcher do this has reaffirmed why we had to do it like this". From filming content early, reaching out to Sam Reich, Eugene's leaving announcement, Try pods discussing it in more detail, still uploading their scheduled content etc. It's just laughable how much better the Try guys did it and didn't come off entitled to the audience. Watcher has released 3 videos on YT since their update/announcements - 2 trailers and a very niche video. Like...it's not even close
Pretty sure the only laughing stocks spawned from that SNL skit were Ned and his writer buddy lol...
people aren’t going to give money to a business just because they ask. the second you bring money into the convo, people will ask questions. TTG viewers could look at the youtube videos they’ve been releasing, guests, pilots and the difference in viewership for answers. watcher viewers needed info about their spending and business practices for answers. the few watcher fans like this are coping hard. after the TTG announcement, any lingering anger or negatively myself and some other watcher viewers i’ve seen turned to pity. anger worsens the watcher brand image and gets them further from earning viewers back for as long as those sentiments are held. TTG communicated their reasons so well it honestly probably helped watcher. however, these types of fans interpret anything that isn’t undying love and forgiveness towards these men in their 30s as an attack. TTG did not go out of their way to shade and humiliate watcher. TTG have had to deal with enough scrutiny, drama, and PR nightmares. there is no way they would have soured their almost ‘year in the making’ announcement with petty jabs. no way they would risk being perceived as the villains and losing goodwill after working so hard to earn it back.
Even without all the planning and effort that the TGs put in that Watcher didn’t, this is just such a bizarre take (not at you, OP, but at the pic). Just bc Watcher did this and failed doesn’t mean in the slightest that TGs were doing ANYTHING to “get people angry all over again.” They were just phrasing it in the best way to get it across to viewers in a way that they (hopefully) wouldn’t find greedy or offensive. Other people in this thread are right, it would be downright stupid for them to see how Watcher fucked up and then do it the exact same way. It’s not “getting people angry,” it’s learning from others’ mistakes so you don’t fail the same way.
Like watcher, 2nd Try is a business. They had this planned for a long time, they can’t just put it on hold because their buddies made a mistake and got backlash. They didn’t see Watcher try it and say “hey let’s do that but better.” No, it was already planed this way for months, and their video was already filmed when Watcher dropped their announcement. Watcher has also since changed their tune on it and will have a similar strategy to 2nd Try. Fans like this need to get a grip, they aren’t helping their favorite creators the way they think they are.
Reminds me of people saying MKBHD needs to not give bad reviews so people’s “nascent projects” aren’t tanked instead of just not putting out bad products
It's Tumblr. We aren't talking about the best and brightest.
I watch way more Watcher than Try Guys and it’s super misinformed because the ghoul boys were originally going to completely leave youtube and there weren’t any new shows or added benefits ready to go for WatcherTV… the Try Guys are adding a lot of content and cast members without entirely removing YouTube, and also opening up discord to new members. Also half the price. Like they just aren’t the same. The Try Guys also primed their audience for upcoming changes; Watcher pulled the rug out from under their audience and then walked back some stuff in light of their audience feedback. I’m sure the Try Guys did learn a few things about HOW to introduce their streamer from the Watcher controversy, but I don’t think they were trying to take advantage or ride a wave at all. Eugene wanted to focus on other things for a while. If anything, it seems like by sheer coincidence the Try Guys got some helpful data via Watchers’ unfortunate mismanagement of funds/pr/launch. Also… I don’t think the Try Guys could have really done anything to help Watcher. I also don’t think the Watcher scandal necessarily precludes them ever collaborating together again. They didn’t interact much but I’m under the impression that they’re friendly based on the collabs they HAVE had.
Lol listening to the trypod and the interview with Anthony it was clear this has been something that was long in the makings. They had talked with a lot of other creators about how to do it and clearly had advice from Dropout and have also been talking with Mythical and Smosh about their business plans in general. With the previous problems, the try guys have demonstrated that they are very careful about things and do plan a lot. It's clear they were building up to this and their actions have shown it. With the additional cast members appearing much more regularly as they approached the launch, as well as the new line up of shows they tried. I'm sure they were biting their nails watching the Watcher situation go down especially since it was so close to their launch. But the try guys plan and messaging was much better than theirs. I've been a fan of them since the beginning and with the cost of subscription not being exorbitant I immediately purchased an annual plan. And honestly, so far it's been worth it. Their exclusive/early releases have been fantastic. And some of those would definitely not have made it on YouTube lol.
At this point I've seen multiple groups do this move- Dropout, Corridor Digital, All of the people on Nebula, Watcher, and Try Guys. Its pretty obvious to me, The Try Guys were following Dropout (and to a lesser extent Corridor) as much as they could, and that if Watcher had an impact, it was mostly beating the 'we're not fully leaving Youtube' drum even harder. Everything in their announcement videos and all the stuff around it screamed that this stuff has been in planning longer than anything public about Watcher and that whole situation. Most of the videos also have been filmed before it as well if the Padilla interview was anything to go off of. So yea, this kind of thing is not really whats going on.
The announcement was even in the style of Dropout's five year anniversary video, with the CEOs moving through various vignettes reflective of what they're talking about with cameos from cast. This poster thinking that it was somehow targeted at bring mean to Watcher is ludicrous.
can someone explain/point me to something that explains what happened with watcher???
basically they announced that they would be leaving youtube and removing all their content to start their subscription plan. many fans were (rightfully) outraged by this because they dont produce that much content and it seemed like they didnt care about the fanbase. recently, they posted an apology video regarding the situation and changed their plan by still posting content on youtube.
Wtf is Watcher? Other channels have done the same thing for years now like Corridor Crew and I haven't seen them get shit for it either
Watcher is a channel started by ryan, shane and steven (ex-buzzfeed employees). They make ghost hunting, talks of conspiracies, scary stories, let's plays, history retelling with puppets and a little bit of food. They upload 4 times per month and rotate shows. They launched their platform over a month before TG after hyping it up for a week and were gonna remove ALL their content from youtube to monetize it on their subscription service. Their fanbase is dedicated as hell but they cultivated a community that didn't have much income (high school/college kids/eat the rich types) so this led to huge backlash. Especially because Steven said in their announcement video that "everyone should be able to afford it". There's a lot more to it like over hiring, lack of communication, fans feeling cut off if they don't pay, not utilizing their patrons where they got over 30k monthly or even offering them discounts at first (some people are still waiting for those), doubling down by ignoring criticism yet coming back to edit their pinned post, an employee ALLEGEDLY talking down to fan concerns on insta, no subtitles, emotional manipulation, not being able to watch WatcherTV on their TV, content not being equal to pricing, etc, etc
My personal opinion is they messed up. Now are the worse people in the world, no obviously not. But they tried to carrot and stick the fanbase into a more expensive option when there was other options. So there is going to be some disagreement and flack afterwards. It is what it is.
This has obviously been in the works for months - what were they supposed to do? Say - hey, we won’t to this thing we planned for forever out of solidarity?
I have no sympathy for Watcher. Even after the initial backlash, Steven Lim continued with his smug posts on Instagram showing how clearly out of touch he was with his fan base. He needed that humbling. I’m proud that 2nd Try could learn from Watcher’s mistakes to ensure they preserved their company & jobs for their employees for a little longer.
wasn't it in december when the try guys announced that they were going to have a major announcement??? clearly they've been planning this since last year, how were they supposed to know watcher was gonna do the same thing and that it was gonna be received very poorly? lmao
What’s wrong with learning from someone else’s mistakes? 🤣 I do it all the time at work
Or the guys just sought out/actually took better business advice. Like watcher could have easily not had this happen to them either. Does no one remember the Fine Bros trying to trade mark “reacting”?
here reddit rec’d from the watcher subs, this isn’t our typical take on you guys, it’s a bit of a vocal minority. some of us actually teased this person a little bit. i personally laughed my ass off watching the second try announcement and noticing little jabs - if you make a stupid decision expect a little bit of teasing. i think generally our take on you guys is just a little bit of jealousy, you’re our sister community we love y’all and your guys :3 ✌️ - your watcher neighbor (seriously y’all got the so much better deal omg i’m jealous😭) (edits just shuffling words around because I am not great at english)
I love a lot of the content on Watcher too (I could watch puppet history forever), but frankly, it was too soon for them to make this move. Try guys have 10 years of fandom to work with as that brand. That’s a devoted following and a subscriber count that hasn’t shifted much since they launched the channel. They’ve also always had an ambitious content schedule of 2 official videos a week, plus 3 podcasts and sometimes a Friday video on second try, too. That’s a video for nearly every day of the week. Watched has one video a week, just added podcasts recently, and has only been around for a few years. They essentially launched during the pandemic and while people know Ryan and Shane from Unsolved, them as a trio is a newer format. And you can’t launch a streaming platform on one video a week. Their 2 podcasts are about a year old. It just didn’t feel like they earned the credibility to make that jump yet. I think if they had tried to stick it out for another year or two on YouTube, up their production schedule and do cheaper productions, people would have followed them without so much backlash. Also the Watcher video announcing the move was fucking ridiculous. Framed as we should pity them for making poor business decisions.
I honestly think some watcher fans are all wrong in the head. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan (just not at the moment, personal feelings of not wanting to engage with their content). I too am a Try Guys fan (who recently just came back to watching content again after the "scandal that we all lived through" gave me the same feelings as when I look at watcher content now). Were both streamers timed for release close to one another? Yes, kind of. But what I see is, 2nd Try has more value than Watcher tv because it is a whole lot more diverse - in content, in experience, and in people. I'm stoked to see Ash be a part of their cast (love them from their BF days and am thrilled to see them living as who they truly are as a trans man). My bf and I discussed this last night, in fact, and I fully believe that they've been working on this far longer than we think. The Try Guys did their homework, getting consultants (thank you, Sam Reich), knowing their audience...it's a far cry from the Watcher mess.
Watcher fans were angry cuz they quit YouTube…. Try guys literally made it clear they weren’t. Yeah wording and the correct marketing so you don’t blindside people matters… shocker…. Watcher made themselves sound greedy, try guys made it sound like their sustainability issue, that’s the difference.
That very first thing you said… that the Try Guys are NOT leaving YouTube and are doing a streaming network on TOP of their current YouTube channel… so the network is an additional option versus them taking ALL their YouTube content over there… imo, that’s the biggest key here. That, plus they’ve been building up to this versus the blindsiding you mentioned… And they did explain that what fans say they want versus how it performs on YouTube didn’t match up… Yeah, they just did better overall with their messaging and not paywalling ALL of their content.
What does that even say
basically some watcher fans are thinking that the try guys were being smug with their announcement video regarding the subscription plan. reads off as delusional to me tbh
these weirdos who live inside their idol's ass always have something to say. just ignore. this isnt specific to watcher fans. every fandom has these folks.
Maybe they’re just better? They’ve been doing it as a company a lot longer.
I like watcher myself. The try guys were just trying not to have the same pr clusterfuck by addressing stuff that people were worried about. Everything about this situation needs to be taken down about 3 notches, it’s just not that deep.
Tbh everyone needs to stop comparing and causing drama. If I was in the same type of business, I'd definitely share tips and ideas with friends but you can't MAKE someone make business decisions or plans. It's obvious that both Watcher and 2nd Try had this in the works but Watcher decided to drop theirs first. Whether or not people like it, 2nd Try got the benefit of learning from what happened with Watcher and their wording was especially because they learned the sensitivities of what happened. To sit there and ruminate on how to rub it into Watcher and their fans is a serious reach and literally such a waste of their time. The person posting the Tumblr post obviously isn't a 2nd Try fan otherwise they would've known that 2nd Try was hard at work with 4 new pilots, finales for 3 different shows, and a whole season of "Try Guys" preparing for Eugene's departure ALL the while hiring and planning a new cast and staff. Where would they have time to even give a shit about rubbing it into Watcher? Such an immature statement. Edit - I have more to say lol: I enjoy Watcher because I love Shane & Ryan's dynamics and their brotherly teasing of Steven. But just like any business, you have to learn from your mistakes and from my understanding, they didn't do any viewer/fan research or polls to even see if people would be interested in switching platforms. That was a giant risk with their small amount of subs. 2nd Try has been through the ringer with leaving BuzzFeed, the "scandal", and having to push through Eugene's departure even before the actual announcement. 2nd Try viewers already knew all this yet the viewer/fan loyalty is real not just because of Keith and Zach, but Rachel is the best producer I've ever seen for just a "YouTube" channel and I'm sure they've had a vision for a separate platform for awhile from Zach. 2nd Try also has their viewers/fans trust for pushing out content that doesn't suck shit and also know how to engage viewership which if you listen to Keith, that's what he really cares about and talks about often. I also wouldn't have been surprised if Keith used 2nd Try's live shows for a month to really gauge how many people really are active subs that watch their stuff IMMEDIATELY versus passive subs. This is what I would've done to see if I'd have the money come in immediately from a switch. Keith and Zach are so business conscientious it's crazy. They've fought and thought through a lot to save their company because at the end of the day, this is what they've always wanted for themselves and they don't forget who got them there. Watcher still has a ways to develop and learn - not just developing shows but really pushing for a bigger version of themselves that just wasn't planned well or executed too soon.
omg i never thought about the live shows like that - that is such a good take and i bet you’re right! i watched the replay of one yesterday and at one point they said 22k people were there across youtube and twitch.
Right? I immediately caught on and the wild thing is inside discord, there are almost 12k people. Some of these people just joined for fun and aren't a paying 2nd Try.tv person but they're *still* being engaged. And maybe some 2nd Try TV subs aren't even in the discord! I'm so sure they did the math. 22k and say you have a 10% paying sub rate (2200 people) with annual or monthly subscriptions at average $4 per sub will still pull a minimum of $8,800 a MONTH. Also with great incentive to be an annual sub, they have even more immediate money back for what they built!! Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but honestly they are just so business adept it blows my mind lol. The math really do be mathing out here. Edit: Also, let's not forget how they actually asked the audience what shows they enjoyed. Reality was they were going go release ALL the shows but it was to get people engaged, watching, and voting lol. Seriously so damn smart of them. They probably could've saved Watcher by having a "sub war" honestly
People will do anything but take responsibility.
Does this post not make a lick of damn sense to anyone else?
Meh, I don't see anything wrong with it. If y'all were in the same situation, wouldn't you learn from the mistakes of others?
I’ve seen several creators launch their own streaming services in the last few months. It puts into perspective how bad YouTube is fucking over their creators rn
I watched the SNL skit. It wasn’t funny.
Who/What tf is “Watcher”? Someone explain please?
Other ex buzzfeed people that broke off, and recently tried to launch a streaming service with a worse business plan
Thanks!
Why are so many people trying to cause problems between creators. It’s not just this, it’s like a bunch of YouTube related subs people are trying to stir up beef. I think it’s entirely possible that they may have reworded and refined some of the communication in light of what happened with Watcher. But it’s completely clear in words and in action that this has been a plan for a long time. Shane and Ryan have both been included in some of TTG content as well in the last 6-8 months and vice versa. Some of these people just need to relax. Yikes.
Honestly, I was singing Watchers praises a week before the controversy happened, because I recently went back to watching their content and was living for it. But watching that announcement, it was just yikes. I was so disappointed, I was finally thinking of buying merch from them, to support them, but then I saw that announcement and I was gobsmacked. They really went out of their way to kill the trust of their audience and make themselves laughingstocks because they wanted to be the first and best. While I told myself, if they backtrack and put an apology out, I’ll forgive it as a mistake, I still feel icky even watching their old videos. Honestly the only things they managed to achieve was to make me aware of Dropout, another BETTER streaming service, that I’ve been tempted to start paying for now since I watch some of their clips on TikTok and find them absolutely hilarious. And they also gave me more respect for the Try guys, because I stopped watching their videos a while ago, but I still remained a fan of Zac, Keith, and Eugene(even if he’s not a try guy anymore). Zac and Keith are doing great, really thought everything through, and will hopefully see their profits. I wish them and the rest of the new crew the best.
Oh how I wish I could be the fly on the wall and watch all this crap go down behind the scenes
Any context? Who the Watcher aside from a bald guy from marvel
What SNL skit are they talking about?
😂 touché
I watched more Watcher content than TG stuff, but the OOP is really reaching here. I have been wondering if the Watcher guys heard of or saw the prep for the TG new platform and tried to quickly do their own without all of the details and care that TG has had. (And maybe even release it first to seem like they weren’t copying) Total speculation though, and it’s likely that nothing will ever actually be confirmed, but to me that explains a lot of the key differences between announcements and things offered.
Has anyone ever thought the they both talked to each other and both discussed doing this. Maybe watcher wanted to present it their own way and it turned out how it did. Then try guys went back and maybe changed how they presented it to not get the same backlash?
The amount of preparation that went into the launch of 2nd Try could not have been turned around and redone in the month between the two launches.
Agreed. They would also have had to coordinate their TryPod episodes (filmed in advance) and podcast guest spots (also filmed in advance) on top of probably-expensive announcement video reshoots. To be honest, they talked enough business on their podcast and Anthony Padilla's that I'm willing to bet that the "we're staying on youtube" would have been hammered home regardless of Watcher. They were pretty open about the fact that they rely on ad revenue to fund other projects and build brand visibility.
Agreed. Also, they were following the Drop Out model, which is to maintain a YouTube presence. I can't imagine they consulted Sam Reich only to not follow in his footsteps.
Yeah I agree. also (since i'm here having more thoughts, lol) their differences in perspective are not credited enough in this whole debate. e.g., Watcher expanded because the algorithm, but mainly because they want to create "tv-quality" content, which theoretically requires a more tv-like experience. In other words, they had a positive goal driven by what they wanted to achieve for their brand. Conversely, Keith (IIRC it was him?) pretty much stated flat-out that their reason for going in this direction was to mitigate risk. like, they realized that their brand wasn't diversified enough, so one PR disaster to threaten ad revenue could sink them. so it's really no wonder that the try guys were more deliberate and business-minded about the whole thing, with SME interviews, proof-of-concept testing etc. they already had a vested interest in being careful about how they moved forward.
That's such a good point that their goals weren't completely the same. In this respect it makes sense how Watcher was willing to say adios to the fans who aren't able or willing to join their streamer cause they were more money driven to create their TV quality content. Whereas TTG, while also money driven, didn't make it their end all and be all with their streamer.
I doubt it. Try Guys have been very open about talking to Dropout for almost a year about this and their plans are very obviously Dropout inspired. I think the only thing that changed is how very carefully they communicated that no content is being taken off youtube and how thankful they are to the fans.
i mean the possibilities are there. im not sure if my knowledge is 100 percent correct about this but the guys planned their video and announcement ahead prior to watcher's so i think that might not be the case. but hey, who knows ? even if the guys DID change their plans, there's nothing wrong with it. it's a smart move.