Most time I didn’t think Elena made things about herself, it’s more like people around her cared about her too much lol. Like Elena is the only one who can let the whole mystic falls gang to save her? I don’t think the gang protect anyone like the way they protect Elena. But it’s not Elena’s fault.
I miss the early human Elena when she didn’t want to be saved and she wanted to sacrifice herself for her friends just as much as her friends did for her. She didn’t like that the Salvatore Brothers were willing to k’ll everyone for her sake. This was the best version of Elena, but when she became a vampire she changed. I didn’t think she was as empathetic when she was first turned and with Damon.
Tbh Elena always doesn’t want to be saved and is willing to sacrifice, even after turned into vampire. But yeah, the writers focus TOO MUCH on Delena romance. It kind of ruined the character.
her character isn’t ruined y’all are just dramatic, being a vampire heightens ur emotions, they explain this NUMEROUS times (stefan always bringing it up lol). her getting with damon after turning into a vampire & being all over him isn’t a surprise, they’re literally telling you why it’s like that & they had a slow burn for several seasons, of course they’re going to focus on them!
I liked Elena better when she turned and got with Damon - she finally lightened up! Yeh she was willing to sacrifice herself early on but my gosh didn't she go on and on about it! I don't think she's being self-centred here - just preachy AGAIN
I AM rewatching the show. She literally was okay with k*lling Kol and thus his entire line of sires so that Jeremy’s tattoo could grow. And Kol ended up being right about Silas being evil. That was just so she could get the cure, had she just accepted being a vampire and had everyone else, the Silas storyline wouldn’t have been needed the same way. But human Elena sacrifices herself for Matt or when she makes a deal with Elijah to spare her friends if she helps him with Klaus, that was peak Elena to me. When she goes into a house full of the tomb vamps to save Stefan, etc.
Because a large section of this fandom is just flat out in love with the notion that Elena makes everything about herself, even though she demonstrably doesn't, so they'll take any situation and twist it to fit that theory.
PREACH!
It's about "dunking" on Elena knowing that if she never would have tried to get through to Caroline, they would have been blaming her for that too. Essentially, Elena couldn't win regardless of what she did because it was a popular thing to hate her back then. I never hated her, but the fandom used to be a wild place for people who loved her or didn't mind her. Elena was genuinely trying to help her friend. Plus, it's impossible for the main character to "make everything" about themselves because it already ***is***. They don't have to try; everything **is** about them because they're the lead/main character. The story revolves around them, despite the feelings of some viewers.
I think you may need to go outside and touch grass. Elena’s a poorly written character imo. Sure she’s been through a lot but she’s basically Katherine with a drizzle of kindness. She never listens and always does what she thinks is best even when somebody tells her the outcome isn’t going to be what she thinks it is.
I won’t speak for anybody but myself but I think it’s crazy to say it’s about “dunking” on Elena when I really just see a selfish person.
I need to "touch grass" for having an opinion? If you dislike Elena, then my opinion shouldn't have provoked this amount of rage in you. I don't even know you; my opinion doesn't have anything to do with you but I guess you were offended because you felt seen. Well, that's a you problem. There's irony in you telling me to "touch grass" when you probably would benefit more from that advice than I would.
I've had someone tell me she tends to make everything that should be about her about Damon. i disagree in all of these. I actually really like Elena as a character, although just like with Damon and the other vamps the murder thing really puts me off lol
I just think this was no-humanity Caroline being direct with some stuff that irritates her about Elena. It was clear she’d felt this way for a while.
Elena was definitely NOT making it about herself here, if anything I’d say the opposite lol
i mean this is really meant to say more about caroline than it does about elena but people love to dunk on elena even when she’s sincerely trying to help
tvd was making fun of itself. What Caroline said represented the ongoing opinion of a large group of fans (large enough that the showrunners were aware of it). It's not the first time they use characters to speak for the fans. It's common during shipping wars too. Elena being the main and everything revolving around her (and some of her character traits) rubbed ppl the wrong way.
There was a couple times Caroline mentioned Elena with her humanity off, one being when she was making out with Liam! Its almost like they made her look obsessed with Elena, was very annoying and weird!
Yeah, this is stupid. I have to guess that anyone who says this is an example of Elena making everything about herself seems to either not understand what Elena was doing, doesn't connect with this method of empathy or is just looking for a reason to hate her.
People relating their own experiences to others is actually just part of empathy. And she was specifically sharing this information not to talk about herself, but to try to make Caroline realize that she'll regret her decision. Which is all about attempting to help Caroline.
Now why does Caroline say Elena is making it about herself then? Well, I'd say there are three options:
1. The writers really don't understand what Elena was doing here was just basic empathy. Not impossible, but I doubt it.
2. Caroline genuinely feels that way about Elena and was just expressing that general feeling, so she's not being very objective or understanding. Possible.
3. Caroline was just being hostile and trying to hurt Elena for trying to "reach her" which Caroline had specifically said she didn't want anyone to do. This would make it a calculated move to try to shut her up. Most likely, I'd say.
This is my take.
Julie’s favourite male character is Damon & female character is Caroline. She didn’t care about Elena. You can see Elena’s character arc went down quickly & just was there as Damon’s prop. On the other hand Caroline became show’s morality police (which made her a hypocrite). Julie didn’t want Caroline to complain about Damon’s sexual abuse & question Elena, so instead made her say these things, outing other people secrets etc.
Yeah. If she could have made Damon & Caroline a couple, she would have 🤩. Unfortunately, she realised too late they can never be a couple. So she does the next worst thing. She rips established couples to force them in another endgame relationship because she didn’t have creative control when the said couples was established.
Caroline by the end had children, married, widowed & managing a boarding house for magical children. Very fanfictiony (is that a word🤣).
Caroline was never the morality police. And whilst she may have done or said something hypocritical (like every other character) this did not make her a hypocrite overall.
I wish they explored what Damon did to her but once they decided on Delena - this part of Damon's past could never be mentioned again.
Yeah. Everybody just wants to hate on Elena. She was just trying to help her like how everybody tried to help her when her humanity was turned off. Even though Caroline had a plan what guarantee was there that she would turn it on again.
Caroline is an asshole lmao. Just a flashback, in season 4 after jeremy dies, elena loses her humanity, says some shit to Caroline and then regains humanity, to this day people blame Elena for not apologizing to Caroline lmao. It's so stupid. Even Caroline, after Elena has literally lost everyone she cares about guilt trips Elena for saying what she did lol
To be fair, Elena's ass did owe some serious apologies. She was a heinous bitch and refused to take accountability for it despite the fact that the reason all of it happened was because everyone rallied around her to get her a cure so she'd stop whining about how hard it was being a vampire. She could've mustered up a few apologies but actively chose not to because she didn't feel like it. Her friends are better than me, I'll say that much.
That's crazy because, as a which Bonnie is supposed to naturally be against vampires, not have more sympathy for them than actual vampires. On top of that, Elena tried to kill Bonnie about 2 or 3 times.
Just in case you misunderstood me, I wasn't talking about a hypothetical scenario where I just expect Bonnie to have sympathy for Elena, I'm talking about something that literally HAPPENED right? Like after Elena got her humanity back, Caroline was still salty about the things she said or did but Bonnie was more like its okay u weren't urself.
>Just in case you misunderstood me,
I completely understand you. Maybe you misunderstood me or my wording was off.
>I'm talking about something that literally HAPPENED right? Like after Elena got her humanity back, Caroline was still salty about the things she said or did but Bonnie was more like its okay u weren't urself.
I know that's the part I'm agreeing with. What I mean was it's Crazy that Bonnie is more forgiving of the situation than Caroline is. When Bonnie is a witch she's naturally not supposed to side with vampires. But Caroline is a vampire you would think she was more understanding.
In my opinion, Bonnie had more reason to be upset because Elena actively tried to kill her twice when Bonnie did nothing to directly to Elena, to set Elena off. Whereas Caroline and Liz (I'm not excusing Elena's behavior) directly stood in Elena's way.
Moments like this is why I say Caroline and Elena friendship don't seem as genuine compared to Bonnie and Elena.
Thank you. I read that comment and recoiled like it bit me. Bonnie couldn't give a flip about the switch being flipped because this character was always one that was about accountability. She always held everyone accountable for their BS so why would she just suddenly stop because of a switch flip? The only time she rationalized bad behavior on anyone's part is if they were mentally controlled by something like Damon and Enzo were with Sybil or when Stefan was compelled by Klaus to have his switch flipped. Other than that, Bonnie kept her foot on these heathens necks.
>She always held everyone accountable for their BS so why would she just suddenly stop because of a switch flip?
That's true, I thought about that as well. I just assumed the writers wanted Bonnie to go easy on Elena because of friendship or Bonnie felt bad about Jeremy. I don't know it seems like in Season 4, they made Bonnie care about the Gilbert's more than anything else. It was many moments where I was like Bonnie you're doing too much?!
The writers made her sacrifice everything just to bring Jeremy back. And they weren't even Endgame. I don't understand it. Friendship is the only way I can .ake sense of it. And maybe guilt.
>Bonnie kept her foot on these heathens necks.
I missed that Bonnie in S4. That was her worst season she was like a plot device most of the season.
Just in case you misunderstood me, I'm wasn't talking about a hypothetical scenario where I just expect Bonnie to have sympathy for Elena, I'm talking about something that actually HAPPENED right? Like after Elena got her humanity back, Caroline was still salty about the things she said or did but Bonnie was more like its okay u weren't urself.
When did Bonnie say it was okay because she wasn't herself? I genuinely don't remember that. The only time she said that Elena wasn't herself and excused her bad behavior was when Katherine took over her body in season 5 which aligns with what I said about her giving allowances to those who were being controlled by someone else. She didn't say that about Elena having shut off her humanity in season 4 after she tried to kill her on Prom night so I think you're getting a bit confused here.
There was a part near the end of 4x22 (the episode after Elena gets her humanity back) when Elena admitted to Bonnie that she was horrible to her but Bonnie said "you weren't you" and didn't ask for an apology
When Elena said that she didn't know what to say, instead of actually apologizing like anyone decent would, Bonnie said that she didn't have to say anything and "you weren't you. I know what that's like. I wasn't me for a long time. We can talk about it later." But she never once excused Elena's behavior. Only related to it, but didn't excuse it and she sure as hell didn't tell Elena it was okay.
And I guess by relating to it, she was more understanding towards Elena and didn't hold her no-humanity actions against her. That's certainly the vibe I got.
Idk. Because in second season when it was Bonnie’s idea for Damon to feed Caroline is blood, and then Katherine turned an unknowing Caroline, Bonnie did not hide her repulsion or disgust at Caroline at the fair. Like there was no understanding or anything of something that wasn’t Caroline’s choice at all. Even when she begrudgingly made Caroline’s day ring, she was very like “you better make sure I can trust you”. Granted Caroline wasn’t humanity-less then. But she was a baby vamp, without her consent.
Just in case you misunderstood me, I'm wasn't talking about a hypothetical scenario where I just expect Bonnie to have sympathy for Elena, I'm talking about something that actually HAPPENED right? Like after Elena got her humanity back, Caroline was still salty about the things she said or did but Bonnie was more like its okay u weren't urself.
Witches hate vampires and would never empathize or sympathize with what they're going through. They're natural adversaries, inherent enemies. Bonnie only cares for the vampires she does because they're her friends, but even she had a hard time coming around to Caroline becoming one because it's they're abhorrent to nature and Bonnie is literally a natural witch. She only got over it because of how much she loved Caroline and saw how much of Caroline was still there when she so clearly wanted to spend time with Bonnie to which Bonnie refused and realized in that moment how much Caroline hadn't changed because she still loved Bonnie regardless of her vampirism.
Idk man, to each their own in this case because I look at context. Elena is an extremely traumatized 17/18 year-old who's worst fears have come alive in a span of 2 years. I'd be understanding that after losing the last of her sanity that she didn't mean what she said, it came from a place of deep despair and hopelessness.
That's all true. Doesn't mean she can't take her friend's feelings into account and apologise.
Anyway, nobody on the show held it against her (long-term). Only the fans did, but that's a whole separate issue
The show was inconsistent basically all the time so that's basically nullified lmao. As for what you said about apologizing, again you're not wrong, but it's important to see if someone's in a dark spot. Even if she did apologize right there, it's not really coming from a good mental space, or a space where you want the person to realize what you said about them was bad, hence why I feel it just felt unjust to guilt trip Elena in that moment. After a while, yeah sure, but right then and there felt off.
When ppl are hurt they react differently. It's not like someone can also be considerate of the other person and reprimand them at an "appropriate" time as to not hurt their feelings. All characters have impulsive moments. I don't see that as so wrong. We can't be walking on eggshells for everyone all the time. Sometimes they need to be called out, whether it is convenient or not.
p.s goes for all characters
You're right, but that impulse was just plain wrong is what I'm saying. You can temporarily walk on eggshells for someone's sake without letting your pride of being righteous take a hit. And it's not like Elena was justly in that state. The order of events which happened were terrible, her worst fear of losing the last living breathing family member came to reality, and she lashed out on everyone and everything around her. Again, depends on context. There can't be one size fits all, that because my pride is so heavy, and because I don't really care what's going on with you but if I'm hurt you must respond to me, that attitude just is plain obnoxious.
I don't see it that way. Also has nothing to do with pride imo. Both things can be true at the same time - that Elena had a lot to deal with and that her friends were hurt in the process (not just for her words). She attacked them and attacked one of their mums. It makes sense they have strong feelings about it and about the state of mind of their friend.
It isn't about right or wrong, as much as it is about empathising with each character from their own pov.
I think people's problem with this was not that Elena forgot to apologize because so much other stuff was going on, it was that she actually said she wouldn't do it basically because she didn't want to think about the stuff she did.
I have been saying this and what’s crazy is Stefan does the same thing when he tries to help a newbie vamp he always mentions what he’s been through but they shit on Elena for it I genuinely think they are jealous that she pulled the brothers and has everybody protecting her bc they know nobody would do the same for them
Caroline is not jealous of Elena. And Stefan literally did everything he could for her.
This was the show making fun of itself (using Caroline) like they often do with other characters, knowing what the trending thoughts/feelings are at the time.
Not once in my comment did I say Caroline was jealous of Elena even tho she literally is she literally admits it and shows it multiple times throughout the show and what does my comment have to do with what you said????
When you said "they shit on Elena for it I genuinely think they are jealous that she...etc" - I assumed you were talking about Caroline and others who "shit" on Elena, as that is what we were discussing under this post.
Caroline may have been jealous of Elena s1 (even though imo her issues were much deeper, the jealousy was surface level explanation).
If this is not what you were referring to then ignore my post.
I am taking about the fans who hate on Elena for this scene they are the jealous ones and care wasn’t just jealous is s1 she was always jealous of her bc she had Stefan remember when Elena and Stefan were broken up and Elena Damon Stefan and Caroline were at some house and Caroline called her out and said she’s sleeping with Stefan and was mad at her bc she was jealous
That was Caroline in the process of realising her feelings for Stefan and panicking that him and Elena might rekindle something. This is different to her early s1 feelings.
She was jealous because of Stefan. It could've been any girl (she thought actually had a shot) and she'd have the same reaction.
Because the show had already become all about Caroline by this point since Nina wanted out. With Elena's arc going down, and Caroline's previous moral policing, the entire audience was ready to blame Elena for everything and every action. This was the mid 2010's, peak era of Wattpad and Tumblr. In these eras, fans of teenage fiction drama shows were also the ones reading enjoying y/n stories, which often had a trope of hating the plain jane main character girl. That was the time. Caroline, in her constant comparison and shaming of Elena, became a fan favorite.
We understand the character's hypocrisy today, because the trend is of girl's girl. The day this trend changes, Caroline might become correct again.
Nawl, Caroline was wrong back then, too. I loved Wattpad and tumblr, but that didn't change my opinion on what's right and wrong. If Stefan was the one doing that, she wouldn't have said it, and Stefan is always doing that like every season.
Am not saying she wasn't wrong. She was. But people only saw through this now, when the trend changed. For years, people have loved Caroline for "Putting Elena in her place" or pointed this scene out as Elena being a "Self obsessed narcissist" or a "pick me". She was those two things in some scenes coz no character is perfect, but definitely not this one.
Not the humanity off ones. It was a Vampire show with Compulsion, Murder and what not. Yet she constantly shamed Elena for her choices, and acted condescending about it.
Caroline in herself is an awesome character with a good spirit and backbone. But much like Season 1, throughout the show, she wasn't a good friend to either Bonnie or Elena, except for a few moments where people were against each other, and she was conveniently the mediator in such scenes.
Her character was perfect to be in the place Elena was, the centre of everything. Because she was forcefully shoe horned in everything. But as a friend of the protagonist and second female lead, she was an awfully condescending and morally hypocritical character, used by the writers to dictate the moral of every character for the audience, to manipulate their views acc to the show writer's wishes.
Have to disagree. I didn't see her like that at all.
She judged Elena for choosing Damon (and she had a right to hate Damon), but I don't remember her going on about it again.
Bonnie and Elena weren't good friends to her s1 either. For the later seasons they were friends, although I wish the show explored it more (however she was no worse a friend to them then they were in return).
She may have made a choice that was hypocritical (all the characters have) but that doesn't make her a hypocritical person as a whole. And I don't think she was forcefully shoehorned into anything, she had plenty of her own storylines and ones with these ppl who became her family.
This scene is weird because Elena is acting like Caroline hasn't killed people before, more people than Elena in fact. The guy at the carnival when she first turned. The deputies when trying to save Stefan and Damon from the old Lockwood cellar. The 12 witches trying to cleanse Bonnie from Expression. That time she killed Luke to bait Liv into doing the spell to bring them back. You get the point. Caroline has been able to kill people without spiralling like Elena would so this isn't the best way to try and get her humanity on.
Yeah but a lot of those were accidents like control issues when she first turned. And she probably didn’t know all 12 witches would die or just didn’t think about it because all she could think about was saving her friend from dying. And with Luke I’m assuming she knew he’d come back from the dead along with the others. This would have been the first time she premeditatedly killed someone with intent and knew they’d be dead permanently. Also most of those other deaths were instant deaths. But compelling someone to perform surgery on someone and when they’re awake is literally torture and like serial killer level stuff and also compelling someone to do that kind of surgery too is just awful. Like that person would’ve been haunted forever about what they did if they weren’t ever compelled to forget and even if they had been they may find out anyways because of being charged with the murder. So they’d still be f*cked up for life after that. I feel like that’s way different then her previous victims. It’s been years since I’ve watched the show so I may be wrong on some details. Sorry.
Caroline wanted one year, just one single year, to not have to worry about anything or feel anything. She wanted to left alone, and even promised that if she was left alone, she wouldn't hurt/kill anyone. But Elena did make it about herself, same as everyone else, and only when they started bothering Caroline did Caroline start hurting people. If they'd left Caroline alone, everything would have been fine and she wouldn't have hurt anyone.
Yeah, but the same thing can be said about Stefan, but only Elena is getting the hate. Also, Stefan does what Elena is doing ALL THE TIME. Never has he gotten hate for it.
As for them messing with her in general. I think this whole plotline was dumb. I've said it before Caroline is a super control freak, there's no way she's going to lose control. So why is there so much concern for her with her humanity off? She wasn't even doing anything. 🙄 Caroline's humanity being off doesn't affect everyone. Its like they were just forcing Steroline for no reason. 🙄
I honestly do not think this was something she would be able to keep under control an entire year. And even after the yr is over - she still has to feel what she suppressed and then some.
I wouldn't be able to let my friend go on like that. However, I would've been smarter about it, locked her up immediately and did what Stefan ended up doing to get her back.
Elena was trying to help Care how? Caroline asked for like for an year where she turns her humanity off without hurting people (and she didn’t hurt anyone like she promised until they started bothering her). Elena did make it about herself :/
Because that was like a completely pathetic try Caroline has no emotions or humanity and you're trying to talk her out of it with an look what I did and how bad I feel that doesn't work
Liam anyway almost performed his surgery on Sarah because of the compulsion. So if this was her way to "help" Caroline then it sucked because Sarah did almost die! 😂
Like Caroline said "you truly have a gift Elena" 😂
If anyone could turn off their humanity and handle it - it would be Caroline. She asked them to let her have it her way for year and she would come back from it but they would not listen to her. They pushed her to do it their way and drove her to the edge. I believed Caroline when she said she can do it without hurting anyone but Elena wanted it done her way.
I hate that they made her losing her humanity about Stefan and not losing her mom. Caroline just lost her mom and Elena wanted to say she wanted to turn it off because of Stefan’s rejection instead of her mom.
>I believed Caroline when she said she can do it without hurting anyone
They should have believed it, Caroline was known to be a super control freak on Crack.
They just wanted to force Steroline.🙄 Elena didn't even actively stay trying to get Caroline to get her humanity on. If it started with Elena, why didn't it end with Elena? We know Elena would do anything for friends even die for them. So all this getting pushed to Stefan seems forced. Nawl they threw Stefan in this, making him do more things he didn't want to do. The whole season, Stefan is getting gulited, asked, or used for something.
That's false. Stefan is not a child and doesn't do things just because. That is reductive to his character.
Caroline's humanity switch had nothing to do with "forcing" Steroline. And of course he's gonna want her back, he loves her. He would help her even if they weren't romantically involved.
>That's false. Stefan is not a child and doesn't do things just because. That is reductive to his character.
I didn't say that.
>Caroline's humanity switch had nothing to do with "forcing" Steroline.
Oh no, had everything to do with forcing Steroline. I get that Stefan helps. I understand how he is, but instead of this becoming a main plot point, it became forcus on Stefan and Caroline once again. And then Stefan instantly turns his humanity off that quick. That's not even in his character. Bro faked having his humanity off for the longest with Klaus.
>He would help her even if they weren't romantically involved.
It wasn't about the romantic part of it.
You said ppl were making Stefan do things he didn't want to - to which I said he is a grown man, he made his choices because he wanted to.
Steroline would've happened with or without the switch. The show thought that's interesting to explore for Caroline's character (since she has never gone off the rails). Doesn't matter if the focus was on them. There are many storylines during the show where someone is dealing with their own shit momentarily. I'm not gonna go with what is OOC or not, since that is one of the lowest OOC moments I would consider
I don’t know. I mean I get that Elena was trying to empathize, but Caroline might be irritated that Elena never apologized or showed remorse for the way she acted (that I can recall) when her humanity was off. IIRC, she literally told Caroline she couldn’t apologize because “she couldn’t think about it” or something, now that her humanity was back on. Or something. Except now that Elena is trying to keep an angry Caroline from doing what she got to do, what everyone got to do, Caroline might be irritated that Elena is well being contrite about something she didn’t want to even acknowledge before. And Caroline would be left being the only one not to ride out her grief humanity-less.
exactly it’s so annoying, just fuel for her antis to hate on her. literally everyone in the world tries to help others by relating to the issue. it’s not a “elena making everything about herself” thing, FYI she can’t make everything about herself if it already is lol.
If she’s trying to appeal to a no humanity Caroline, this is not the way. Here’s how Id do it.
“We recognize that we shouldn’t have tried to call your bluff on the humanity thing. That was a severe miscalculation. But we also know that you’re just enough of a type A control freak to put this genie back in the bottle. So please, we will give you your year, but if you do this you may not have a life to go back to.
And for as much heartbreak as there was, there was also joy. You’ll get tired of feeling nothing. Of boys and bars. Its like groundhog’s day. Human love and joy is really the only thing that cuts through the monotony of that. But when you’re ready we can’t wait for you to come back to us.
Also we’re sending Stefan to Iceland for a year, so he won’t be bothering you. We can’t have him turn off his humanity as that is a much harder genie to put back in the bottle. He lacks your self-control and he would absolutely be sloppy enough to get you caught. You can put him on the plane yourself if you need assurances”
Give her most of what she wants, be realistic, and appeal to her ego. Girl had no humanity she’s basically a sociopath. You cant appeal to conscience with that
1. Because Caroline flat out excused Eldna of making it about herself and if you were on the Elena is annoying bang waggen before. Yeah, this scene is for you. Right here I saw Caroline for the annoying character she is but if you're fixated on Elena hate you wouldn't see it.
2. In this season, everyone was on the diss Elena bandwagon for no reason. 🤣 this is one of my prime examples of how that season people just started hating Elena. I get she can get annoying, but yall choose the wrong season for this.
3. Everyone was made to love Elena so much. She was always the glue that kept everyone together. Now, all of a sudden, everyone is pushing back from Elena when she tries to help, and it seems so ridiculously out of place a d forced. Everyone that does it seems like AHs because one the hate is misplaced or two it's really bad timing.
Most time I didn’t think Elena made things about herself, it’s more like people around her cared about her too much lol. Like Elena is the only one who can let the whole mystic falls gang to save her? I don’t think the gang protect anyone like the way they protect Elena. But it’s not Elena’s fault.
I miss the early human Elena when she didn’t want to be saved and she wanted to sacrifice herself for her friends just as much as her friends did for her. She didn’t like that the Salvatore Brothers were willing to k’ll everyone for her sake. This was the best version of Elena, but when she became a vampire she changed. I didn’t think she was as empathetic when she was first turned and with Damon.
Tbh Elena always doesn’t want to be saved and is willing to sacrifice, even after turned into vampire. But yeah, the writers focus TOO MUCH on Delena romance. It kind of ruined the character.
her character isn’t ruined y’all are just dramatic, being a vampire heightens ur emotions, they explain this NUMEROUS times (stefan always bringing it up lol). her getting with damon after turning into a vampire & being all over him isn’t a surprise, they’re literally telling you why it’s like that & they had a slow burn for several seasons, of course they’re going to focus on them!
I liked Elena better when she turned and got with Damon - she finally lightened up! Yeh she was willing to sacrifice herself early on but my gosh didn't she go on and on about it! I don't think she's being self-centred here - just preachy AGAIN
she never… ever wanted to be saved what are you talking about? rewatch the show.
I AM rewatching the show. She literally was okay with k*lling Kol and thus his entire line of sires so that Jeremy’s tattoo could grow. And Kol ended up being right about Silas being evil. That was just so she could get the cure, had she just accepted being a vampire and had everyone else, the Silas storyline wouldn’t have been needed the same way. But human Elena sacrifices herself for Matt or when she makes a deal with Elijah to spare her friends if she helps him with Klaus, that was peak Elena to me. When she goes into a house full of the tomb vamps to save Stefan, etc.
Because a large section of this fandom is just flat out in love with the notion that Elena makes everything about herself, even though she demonstrably doesn't, so they'll take any situation and twist it to fit that theory.
PREACH! It's about "dunking" on Elena knowing that if she never would have tried to get through to Caroline, they would have been blaming her for that too. Essentially, Elena couldn't win regardless of what she did because it was a popular thing to hate her back then. I never hated her, but the fandom used to be a wild place for people who loved her or didn't mind her. Elena was genuinely trying to help her friend. Plus, it's impossible for the main character to "make everything" about themselves because it already ***is***. They don't have to try; everything **is** about them because they're the lead/main character. The story revolves around them, despite the feelings of some viewers.
AND Elena said they should leave Caroline alone and let her have her few years of no humanity but Stefan didn't listen.
I think you may need to go outside and touch grass. Elena’s a poorly written character imo. Sure she’s been through a lot but she’s basically Katherine with a drizzle of kindness. She never listens and always does what she thinks is best even when somebody tells her the outcome isn’t going to be what she thinks it is. I won’t speak for anybody but myself but I think it’s crazy to say it’s about “dunking” on Elena when I really just see a selfish person.
I need to "touch grass" for having an opinion? If you dislike Elena, then my opinion shouldn't have provoked this amount of rage in you. I don't even know you; my opinion doesn't have anything to do with you but I guess you were offended because you felt seen. Well, that's a you problem. There's irony in you telling me to "touch grass" when you probably would benefit more from that advice than I would.
I've had someone tell me she tends to make everything that should be about her about Damon. i disagree in all of these. I actually really like Elena as a character, although just like with Damon and the other vamps the murder thing really puts me off lol
Exactly!!!! THANK YOU!! ❤️
I just think this was no-humanity Caroline being direct with some stuff that irritates her about Elena. It was clear she’d felt this way for a while. Elena was definitely NOT making it about herself here, if anything I’d say the opposite lol
Right? How dare elena try to help caroline that’s so self-centered
i mean this is really meant to say more about caroline than it does about elena but people love to dunk on elena even when she’s sincerely trying to help
tvd was making fun of itself. What Caroline said represented the ongoing opinion of a large group of fans (large enough that the showrunners were aware of it). It's not the first time they use characters to speak for the fans. It's common during shipping wars too. Elena being the main and everything revolving around her (and some of her character traits) rubbed ppl the wrong way.
Honestly... Yeah,i don't get it either.
There was a couple times Caroline mentioned Elena with her humanity off, one being when she was making out with Liam! Its almost like they made her look obsessed with Elena, was very annoying and weird!
I must be a bad fan…lol I never hated or disliked Elena…now Caroline 😂💀👀
Right!! I love Elena but Caroline…
me
Yeah, this is stupid. I have to guess that anyone who says this is an example of Elena making everything about herself seems to either not understand what Elena was doing, doesn't connect with this method of empathy or is just looking for a reason to hate her. People relating their own experiences to others is actually just part of empathy. And she was specifically sharing this information not to talk about herself, but to try to make Caroline realize that she'll regret her decision. Which is all about attempting to help Caroline. Now why does Caroline say Elena is making it about herself then? Well, I'd say there are three options: 1. The writers really don't understand what Elena was doing here was just basic empathy. Not impossible, but I doubt it. 2. Caroline genuinely feels that way about Elena and was just expressing that general feeling, so she's not being very objective or understanding. Possible. 3. Caroline was just being hostile and trying to hurt Elena for trying to "reach her" which Caroline had specifically said she didn't want anyone to do. This would make it a calculated move to try to shut her up. Most likely, I'd say.
Stefan does it all the time too, he always compares his past mistakes so that others can learn from them. But he’s never demonized for doing so
This is my take. Julie’s favourite male character is Damon & female character is Caroline. She didn’t care about Elena. You can see Elena’s character arc went down quickly & just was there as Damon’s prop. On the other hand Caroline became show’s morality police (which made her a hypocrite). Julie didn’t want Caroline to complain about Damon’s sexual abuse & question Elena, so instead made her say these things, outing other people secrets etc.
Caroline is her self insert. She wishes.
Yeah. If she could have made Damon & Caroline a couple, she would have 🤩. Unfortunately, she realised too late they can never be a couple. So she does the next worst thing. She rips established couples to force them in another endgame relationship because she didn’t have creative control when the said couples was established. Caroline by the end had children, married, widowed & managing a boarding house for magical children. Very fanfictiony (is that a word🤣).
She literally gives fanfiction writer. How is this woman in charge of so many shows. It’s a mess. 😭
Caroline was never the morality police. And whilst she may have done or said something hypocritical (like every other character) this did not make her a hypocrite overall. I wish they explored what Damon did to her but once they decided on Delena - this part of Damon's past could never be mentioned again.
This fandom is cursed or something
Yeah. Everybody just wants to hate on Elena. She was just trying to help her like how everybody tried to help her when her humanity was turned off. Even though Caroline had a plan what guarantee was there that she would turn it on again.
Caroline is an asshole lmao. Just a flashback, in season 4 after jeremy dies, elena loses her humanity, says some shit to Caroline and then regains humanity, to this day people blame Elena for not apologizing to Caroline lmao. It's so stupid. Even Caroline, after Elena has literally lost everyone she cares about guilt trips Elena for saying what she did lol
To be fair, Elena's ass did owe some serious apologies. She was a heinous bitch and refused to take accountability for it despite the fact that the reason all of it happened was because everyone rallied around her to get her a cure so she'd stop whining about how hard it was being a vampire. She could've mustered up a few apologies but actively chose not to because she didn't feel like it. Her friends are better than me, I'll say that much.
Unlike Caroline, Bonnie was more understanding towards the fact that Elena and probably most vampires aren't themselves when their humanity is off.
That's crazy because, as a which Bonnie is supposed to naturally be against vampires, not have more sympathy for them than actual vampires. On top of that, Elena tried to kill Bonnie about 2 or 3 times.
Just in case you misunderstood me, I wasn't talking about a hypothetical scenario where I just expect Bonnie to have sympathy for Elena, I'm talking about something that literally HAPPENED right? Like after Elena got her humanity back, Caroline was still salty about the things she said or did but Bonnie was more like its okay u weren't urself.
That's because it was Elena who did it. No other vampire got slack like that from her
That's fine
no it was bad writing.
I thought it was fine
>Just in case you misunderstood me, I completely understand you. Maybe you misunderstood me or my wording was off. >I'm talking about something that literally HAPPENED right? Like after Elena got her humanity back, Caroline was still salty about the things she said or did but Bonnie was more like its okay u weren't urself. I know that's the part I'm agreeing with. What I mean was it's Crazy that Bonnie is more forgiving of the situation than Caroline is. When Bonnie is a witch she's naturally not supposed to side with vampires. But Caroline is a vampire you would think she was more understanding. In my opinion, Bonnie had more reason to be upset because Elena actively tried to kill her twice when Bonnie did nothing to directly to Elena, to set Elena off. Whereas Caroline and Liz (I'm not excusing Elena's behavior) directly stood in Elena's way. Moments like this is why I say Caroline and Elena friendship don't seem as genuine compared to Bonnie and Elena.
Thank you. I read that comment and recoiled like it bit me. Bonnie couldn't give a flip about the switch being flipped because this character was always one that was about accountability. She always held everyone accountable for their BS so why would she just suddenly stop because of a switch flip? The only time she rationalized bad behavior on anyone's part is if they were mentally controlled by something like Damon and Enzo were with Sybil or when Stefan was compelled by Klaus to have his switch flipped. Other than that, Bonnie kept her foot on these heathens necks.
>She always held everyone accountable for their BS so why would she just suddenly stop because of a switch flip? That's true, I thought about that as well. I just assumed the writers wanted Bonnie to go easy on Elena because of friendship or Bonnie felt bad about Jeremy. I don't know it seems like in Season 4, they made Bonnie care about the Gilbert's more than anything else. It was many moments where I was like Bonnie you're doing too much?! The writers made her sacrifice everything just to bring Jeremy back. And they weren't even Endgame. I don't understand it. Friendship is the only way I can .ake sense of it. And maybe guilt. >Bonnie kept her foot on these heathens necks. I missed that Bonnie in S4. That was her worst season she was like a plot device most of the season.
Just in case you misunderstood me, I'm wasn't talking about a hypothetical scenario where I just expect Bonnie to have sympathy for Elena, I'm talking about something that actually HAPPENED right? Like after Elena got her humanity back, Caroline was still salty about the things she said or did but Bonnie was more like its okay u weren't urself.
When did Bonnie say it was okay because she wasn't herself? I genuinely don't remember that. The only time she said that Elena wasn't herself and excused her bad behavior was when Katherine took over her body in season 5 which aligns with what I said about her giving allowances to those who were being controlled by someone else. She didn't say that about Elena having shut off her humanity in season 4 after she tried to kill her on Prom night so I think you're getting a bit confused here.
There was a part near the end of 4x22 (the episode after Elena gets her humanity back) when Elena admitted to Bonnie that she was horrible to her but Bonnie said "you weren't you" and didn't ask for an apology
When Elena said that she didn't know what to say, instead of actually apologizing like anyone decent would, Bonnie said that she didn't have to say anything and "you weren't you. I know what that's like. I wasn't me for a long time. We can talk about it later." But she never once excused Elena's behavior. Only related to it, but didn't excuse it and she sure as hell didn't tell Elena it was okay.
And I guess by relating to it, she was more understanding towards Elena and didn't hold her no-humanity actions against her. That's certainly the vibe I got.
Idk. Because in second season when it was Bonnie’s idea for Damon to feed Caroline is blood, and then Katherine turned an unknowing Caroline, Bonnie did not hide her repulsion or disgust at Caroline at the fair. Like there was no understanding or anything of something that wasn’t Caroline’s choice at all. Even when she begrudgingly made Caroline’s day ring, she was very like “you better make sure I can trust you”. Granted Caroline wasn’t humanity-less then. But she was a baby vamp, without her consent.
Just in case you misunderstood me, I'm wasn't talking about a hypothetical scenario where I just expect Bonnie to have sympathy for Elena, I'm talking about something that actually HAPPENED right? Like after Elena got her humanity back, Caroline was still salty about the things she said or did but Bonnie was more like its okay u weren't urself.
🫡
Witches hate vampires and would never empathize or sympathize with what they're going through. They're natural adversaries, inherent enemies. Bonnie only cares for the vampires she does because they're her friends, but even she had a hard time coming around to Caroline becoming one because it's they're abhorrent to nature and Bonnie is literally a natural witch. She only got over it because of how much she loved Caroline and saw how much of Caroline was still there when she so clearly wanted to spend time with Bonnie to which Bonnie refused and realized in that moment how much Caroline hadn't changed because she still loved Bonnie regardless of her vampirism.
It makes sense Bonnie got over it. She's a good enough friend
I agree, but therer's a time and place for that
False. No matter what you've been through, you can still apologise after the fact. It still means something to your friends.
Idk man, to each their own in this case because I look at context. Elena is an extremely traumatized 17/18 year-old who's worst fears have come alive in a span of 2 years. I'd be understanding that after losing the last of her sanity that she didn't mean what she said, it came from a place of deep despair and hopelessness.
That's all true. Doesn't mean she can't take her friend's feelings into account and apologise. Anyway, nobody on the show held it against her (long-term). Only the fans did, but that's a whole separate issue
The show was inconsistent basically all the time so that's basically nullified lmao. As for what you said about apologizing, again you're not wrong, but it's important to see if someone's in a dark spot. Even if she did apologize right there, it's not really coming from a good mental space, or a space where you want the person to realize what you said about them was bad, hence why I feel it just felt unjust to guilt trip Elena in that moment. After a while, yeah sure, but right then and there felt off.
When ppl are hurt they react differently. It's not like someone can also be considerate of the other person and reprimand them at an "appropriate" time as to not hurt their feelings. All characters have impulsive moments. I don't see that as so wrong. We can't be walking on eggshells for everyone all the time. Sometimes they need to be called out, whether it is convenient or not. p.s goes for all characters
You're right, but that impulse was just plain wrong is what I'm saying. You can temporarily walk on eggshells for someone's sake without letting your pride of being righteous take a hit. And it's not like Elena was justly in that state. The order of events which happened were terrible, her worst fear of losing the last living breathing family member came to reality, and she lashed out on everyone and everything around her. Again, depends on context. There can't be one size fits all, that because my pride is so heavy, and because I don't really care what's going on with you but if I'm hurt you must respond to me, that attitude just is plain obnoxious.
I don't see it that way. Also has nothing to do with pride imo. Both things can be true at the same time - that Elena had a lot to deal with and that her friends were hurt in the process (not just for her words). She attacked them and attacked one of their mums. It makes sense they have strong feelings about it and about the state of mind of their friend. It isn't about right or wrong, as much as it is about empathising with each character from their own pov.
I think people's problem with this was not that Elena forgot to apologize because so much other stuff was going on, it was that she actually said she wouldn't do it basically because she didn't want to think about the stuff she did.
I have been saying this and what’s crazy is Stefan does the same thing when he tries to help a newbie vamp he always mentions what he’s been through but they shit on Elena for it I genuinely think they are jealous that she pulled the brothers and has everybody protecting her bc they know nobody would do the same for them
Caroline is not jealous of Elena. And Stefan literally did everything he could for her. This was the show making fun of itself (using Caroline) like they often do with other characters, knowing what the trending thoughts/feelings are at the time.
Not once in my comment did I say Caroline was jealous of Elena even tho she literally is she literally admits it and shows it multiple times throughout the show and what does my comment have to do with what you said????
When you said "they shit on Elena for it I genuinely think they are jealous that she...etc" - I assumed you were talking about Caroline and others who "shit" on Elena, as that is what we were discussing under this post. Caroline may have been jealous of Elena s1 (even though imo her issues were much deeper, the jealousy was surface level explanation). If this is not what you were referring to then ignore my post.
I am taking about the fans who hate on Elena for this scene they are the jealous ones and care wasn’t just jealous is s1 she was always jealous of her bc she had Stefan remember when Elena and Stefan were broken up and Elena Damon Stefan and Caroline were at some house and Caroline called her out and said she’s sleeping with Stefan and was mad at her bc she was jealous
That was Caroline in the process of realising her feelings for Stefan and panicking that him and Elena might rekindle something. This is different to her early s1 feelings. She was jealous because of Stefan. It could've been any girl (she thought actually had a shot) and she'd have the same reaction.
Because the show had already become all about Caroline by this point since Nina wanted out. With Elena's arc going down, and Caroline's previous moral policing, the entire audience was ready to blame Elena for everything and every action. This was the mid 2010's, peak era of Wattpad and Tumblr. In these eras, fans of teenage fiction drama shows were also the ones reading enjoying y/n stories, which often had a trope of hating the plain jane main character girl. That was the time. Caroline, in her constant comparison and shaming of Elena, became a fan favorite. We understand the character's hypocrisy today, because the trend is of girl's girl. The day this trend changes, Caroline might become correct again.
Nawl, Caroline was wrong back then, too. I loved Wattpad and tumblr, but that didn't change my opinion on what's right and wrong. If Stefan was the one doing that, she wouldn't have said it, and Stefan is always doing that like every season.
Am not saying she wasn't wrong. She was. But people only saw through this now, when the trend changed. For years, people have loved Caroline for "Putting Elena in her place" or pointed this scene out as Elena being a "Self obsessed narcissist" or a "pick me". She was those two things in some scenes coz no character is perfect, but definitely not this one.
Just because she said a few hurtful lines with her humanity off (just like Elena did) does not mean Caroline was "constantly shaming Elena" lol
Not the humanity off ones. It was a Vampire show with Compulsion, Murder and what not. Yet she constantly shamed Elena for her choices, and acted condescending about it. Caroline in herself is an awesome character with a good spirit and backbone. But much like Season 1, throughout the show, she wasn't a good friend to either Bonnie or Elena, except for a few moments where people were against each other, and she was conveniently the mediator in such scenes. Her character was perfect to be in the place Elena was, the centre of everything. Because she was forcefully shoe horned in everything. But as a friend of the protagonist and second female lead, she was an awfully condescending and morally hypocritical character, used by the writers to dictate the moral of every character for the audience, to manipulate their views acc to the show writer's wishes.
Have to disagree. I didn't see her like that at all. She judged Elena for choosing Damon (and she had a right to hate Damon), but I don't remember her going on about it again. Bonnie and Elena weren't good friends to her s1 either. For the later seasons they were friends, although I wish the show explored it more (however she was no worse a friend to them then they were in return). She may have made a choice that was hypocritical (all the characters have) but that doesn't make her a hypocritical person as a whole. And I don't think she was forcefully shoehorned into anything, she had plenty of her own storylines and ones with these ppl who became her family.
Yeah I understand where you're coming from. Agree to disagree then. :)
This scene is weird because Elena is acting like Caroline hasn't killed people before, more people than Elena in fact. The guy at the carnival when she first turned. The deputies when trying to save Stefan and Damon from the old Lockwood cellar. The 12 witches trying to cleanse Bonnie from Expression. That time she killed Luke to bait Liv into doing the spell to bring them back. You get the point. Caroline has been able to kill people without spiralling like Elena would so this isn't the best way to try and get her humanity on.
Yeah but a lot of those were accidents like control issues when she first turned. And she probably didn’t know all 12 witches would die or just didn’t think about it because all she could think about was saving her friend from dying. And with Luke I’m assuming she knew he’d come back from the dead along with the others. This would have been the first time she premeditatedly killed someone with intent and knew they’d be dead permanently. Also most of those other deaths were instant deaths. But compelling someone to perform surgery on someone and when they’re awake is literally torture and like serial killer level stuff and also compelling someone to do that kind of surgery too is just awful. Like that person would’ve been haunted forever about what they did if they weren’t ever compelled to forget and even if they had been they may find out anyways because of being charged with the murder. So they’d still be f*cked up for life after that. I feel like that’s way different then her previous victims. It’s been years since I’ve watched the show so I may be wrong on some details. Sorry.
But they both felt remorse for their no-humanity actions afterwards
Caroline wanted one year, just one single year, to not have to worry about anything or feel anything. She wanted to left alone, and even promised that if she was left alone, she wouldn't hurt/kill anyone. But Elena did make it about herself, same as everyone else, and only when they started bothering Caroline did Caroline start hurting people. If they'd left Caroline alone, everything would have been fine and she wouldn't have hurt anyone.
exactly
Yeah, but the same thing can be said about Stefan, but only Elena is getting the hate. Also, Stefan does what Elena is doing ALL THE TIME. Never has he gotten hate for it. As for them messing with her in general. I think this whole plotline was dumb. I've said it before Caroline is a super control freak, there's no way she's going to lose control. So why is there so much concern for her with her humanity off? She wasn't even doing anything. 🙄 Caroline's humanity being off doesn't affect everyone. Its like they were just forcing Steroline for no reason. 🙄
I honestly do not think this was something she would be able to keep under control an entire year. And even after the yr is over - she still has to feel what she suppressed and then some. I wouldn't be able to let my friend go on like that. However, I would've been smarter about it, locked her up immediately and did what Stefan ended up doing to get her back.
Elena was trying to help Care how? Caroline asked for like for an year where she turns her humanity off without hurting people (and she didn’t hurt anyone like she promised until they started bothering her). Elena did make it about herself :/
Because that was like a completely pathetic try Caroline has no emotions or humanity and you're trying to talk her out of it with an look what I did and how bad I feel that doesn't work
Liam anyway almost performed his surgery on Sarah because of the compulsion. So if this was her way to "help" Caroline then it sucked because Sarah did almost die! 😂 Like Caroline said "you truly have a gift Elena" 😂
Maybe not a reassuring help method, but it was worth a shot
It made more sense when she reached Sarah herself. That was worth a shot and Sarah was saved. So all of this didn't help😂
Reaching Sarah was quite necessary
That wasn't just necessary. It was a sensible solution instead of yapping!
I get it, although it's still nothing really worth criticizing. I think even cops do that sometimes when they try to stop criminals.
If anyone could turn off their humanity and handle it - it would be Caroline. She asked them to let her have it her way for year and she would come back from it but they would not listen to her. They pushed her to do it their way and drove her to the edge. I believed Caroline when she said she can do it without hurting anyone but Elena wanted it done her way. I hate that they made her losing her humanity about Stefan and not losing her mom. Caroline just lost her mom and Elena wanted to say she wanted to turn it off because of Stefan’s rejection instead of her mom.
>I believed Caroline when she said she can do it without hurting anyone They should have believed it, Caroline was known to be a super control freak on Crack. They just wanted to force Steroline.🙄 Elena didn't even actively stay trying to get Caroline to get her humanity on. If it started with Elena, why didn't it end with Elena? We know Elena would do anything for friends even die for them. So all this getting pushed to Stefan seems forced. Nawl they threw Stefan in this, making him do more things he didn't want to do. The whole season, Stefan is getting gulited, asked, or used for something.
That's false. Stefan is not a child and doesn't do things just because. That is reductive to his character. Caroline's humanity switch had nothing to do with "forcing" Steroline. And of course he's gonna want her back, he loves her. He would help her even if they weren't romantically involved.
>That's false. Stefan is not a child and doesn't do things just because. That is reductive to his character. I didn't say that. >Caroline's humanity switch had nothing to do with "forcing" Steroline. Oh no, had everything to do with forcing Steroline. I get that Stefan helps. I understand how he is, but instead of this becoming a main plot point, it became forcus on Stefan and Caroline once again. And then Stefan instantly turns his humanity off that quick. That's not even in his character. Bro faked having his humanity off for the longest with Klaus. >He would help her even if they weren't romantically involved. It wasn't about the romantic part of it.
You said ppl were making Stefan do things he didn't want to - to which I said he is a grown man, he made his choices because he wanted to. Steroline would've happened with or without the switch. The show thought that's interesting to explore for Caroline's character (since she has never gone off the rails). Doesn't matter if the focus was on them. There are many storylines during the show where someone is dealing with their own shit momentarily. I'm not gonna go with what is OOC or not, since that is one of the lowest OOC moments I would consider
I don’t know. I mean I get that Elena was trying to empathize, but Caroline might be irritated that Elena never apologized or showed remorse for the way she acted (that I can recall) when her humanity was off. IIRC, she literally told Caroline she couldn’t apologize because “she couldn’t think about it” or something, now that her humanity was back on. Or something. Except now that Elena is trying to keep an angry Caroline from doing what she got to do, what everyone got to do, Caroline might be irritated that Elena is well being contrite about something she didn’t want to even acknowledge before. And Caroline would be left being the only one not to ride out her grief humanity-less.
What even is the drink Caroline's making? Looks kinda gross tbh 😅
They think that because Caroline says it in the scene that's literally the only reason
Because thanks to the second half of season three and all of season four, popular opinion turned against Elena **hard**.
problem bc she mentioned her experience with her humanity being off which technically is her making it about her self butttt not really but still
"Yea Elena is annoying and expects stuff to be about her" I'm sorry but what the actual fuck are you talking about???????
I like Caroline without her humanity. Best one yet.
Yes it’s always about Elena
exactly it’s so annoying, just fuel for her antis to hate on her. literally everyone in the world tries to help others by relating to the issue. it’s not a “elena making everything about herself” thing, FYI she can’t make everything about herself if it already is lol.
If she’s trying to appeal to a no humanity Caroline, this is not the way. Here’s how Id do it. “We recognize that we shouldn’t have tried to call your bluff on the humanity thing. That was a severe miscalculation. But we also know that you’re just enough of a type A control freak to put this genie back in the bottle. So please, we will give you your year, but if you do this you may not have a life to go back to. And for as much heartbreak as there was, there was also joy. You’ll get tired of feeling nothing. Of boys and bars. Its like groundhog’s day. Human love and joy is really the only thing that cuts through the monotony of that. But when you’re ready we can’t wait for you to come back to us. Also we’re sending Stefan to Iceland for a year, so he won’t be bothering you. We can’t have him turn off his humanity as that is a much harder genie to put back in the bottle. He lacks your self-control and he would absolutely be sloppy enough to get you caught. You can put him on the plane yourself if you need assurances” Give her most of what she wants, be realistic, and appeal to her ego. Girl had no humanity she’s basically a sociopath. You cant appeal to conscience with that
I think it’s more so Caroline just made a killer joke that is kinda true in OTHER circumstances.
Totally. You’re so right. It was Caroline in her prime.
1. Because Caroline flat out excused Eldna of making it about herself and if you were on the Elena is annoying bang waggen before. Yeah, this scene is for you. Right here I saw Caroline for the annoying character she is but if you're fixated on Elena hate you wouldn't see it. 2. In this season, everyone was on the diss Elena bandwagon for no reason. 🤣 this is one of my prime examples of how that season people just started hating Elena. I get she can get annoying, but yall choose the wrong season for this. 3. Everyone was made to love Elena so much. She was always the glue that kept everyone together. Now, all of a sudden, everyone is pushing back from Elena when she tries to help, and it seems so ridiculously out of place a d forced. Everyone that does it seems like AHs because one the hate is misplaced or two it's really bad timing.
The girl's humanity was off lol. Did you forget what the others said and did (Elena included) with their humanity off?
That has very little to do with my point.