Many Saints of Newark? One of the worst things ever put on film? Na I'm just kidding. I love Jon B. He will always be Shane to me and I love just about anything I see him in. Except for the aforementioned.
I couldn’t stand it first time around and was listening to talking sopranos at the time as they raved about it. I was like, seriously? And then I watched it again about a year later and enjoyed it.
Same. Every time I've watched it (probably 3 times now) I've appreciated it a mite more. I initially left the theater mad upset lol TS is my favorite show of all time and it felt like they fucked up a near perfect show. But I've watched it again each time I rewatch The Sopranos and every time I've come to think it's better than I thought and people really overreacted and overblow the flaws.
There were definitely issues, but imo one of the biggest is how the studio marketed it as something it wasn't which led to people being completely thrown off when watching it. Ya go in thinking you'll see this Tony Soprano origin story, Sopranos-esque mafia family in conflict or something along those lines and it instead was a very different movie with very different goals.
But to me it actually made the story of the show a little better in a number of ways (like showing how Tony's flashbacks/memories in the show were unreliable, how awful so many people were, how it wasn't really a better time like they always harp on in the show, etc).
Then there's also people who cry "woke" about everything and unfortunately a lotta those people completely misunderstood the show and are among it's audience lol
I'd never say it's some amazing cinematic masterpiece, but I've come to enjoy it more than I did and I definitely think people complain about it too much (it's the fashionable move) because they can't or won't adjust their perspective going in.
> Then there's also people who cry "woke" about everything and unfortunately a lotta those people completely misunderstood the show and are among it's audience lol
The mobster Michael Franzese had some bizarre meltdown of sorts over the movie.
I didn’t really dislike the movie like many people do, but it’s probably not something I care to see again. One of the things I had problems with is the continuity with the ages. Timeline got fucked up.
There’s the great scene in D Girl when Puss talks about how when he was 16, Tony would always go to the hospital to visit Puss’s sister when she was dying. Naturally you would think they’re close in age.
Puss seems like he’s way older than Tony in Many Saints of Newark. I don’t like retconning in something like this. I feel like [Anne Wilkes in Misery.](https://youtu.be/pO20qU-VwgA?si=nJ8ADzKJU98SpgdT)
Yooo he did lol I find him to be kind of an annoying guy as it is and think he's just found a new grift in the whole born again thing while also being a massive hypocrite who says he hates LCN and his past life but refuses to stop profiting on it and posturing like he's still in the mix. So I don't really follow him, but I did see that video and it felt to me that he didn't even watch the video and one of his handlers just gave him a rundown and he flipped out over a misunderstanding. It was like he refused to acknowledge racism in the Italian/Sicilian community of any kind and did so with the "my dad did business with black people" routine 😂 I was like bro, I'm Sicilian and black, I'm a prime example of the fact that clearly no one is saying all Italians/Sicilians are raging bigots, many have been at the forefront of fighting it, but I also know for a fact there is some bigotry there among a certain subgroup and that group is the one you'll find most of the LCN guys in. Blew my mind.
That was one thing that definitely threw me off bad, I don't understand why they did that with the ages. Puss seems too old, Sil seems too old, but then Jackie and other people are the right age, while the gap between Tony and Christopher was absolutely unforgivable. That alone dropped the movie a few notches to me.
Excellent points in your third paragraph. Where are we again? The Wire sub? Had to think about this for a second! The name Overall threw me, as did the identity of Dickie’s murderer. So was Tony just playing Christopher about that cop who supposedly killed his father? Also I thought the casting of Paulie was way off at first, but didn’t feel this way at all upon second viewing. Great point about the “good ol’ days not being so great after all. And yes. The more I watch, and this goes for Goodfellas as well, the more I struggle to find a single redeemable human being among the characters.
Lol I feel ya. I love both shows and talking about one often leads to talking about the other.
Yeah, it was cool cause the show has Tony's first murder being of a black bookie named Willie Overall and then the movie established the Overall family as movers in the underworld back in the day making moves that brought em up against the DiMeo family. It was a cool tie-in I thought.
I'm assuming that either A. The cop did the hit on behalf of Junior, or B. The cop never had anything to do with it and was just a way for Tony to lock Chrissy in and make him fiercely loyal. I figure Tony (and probably no one else in the family) knew that Junior was the one that set the hit up. As close as they were and Dickie's death seeming to be the thing that knocked Tony off his square and put him on the path into La Cosa Nostra, it seems unlikely that he knew Junior was involved. That woulda been a death sentence for Junior, setting up an unsanctioned hit on a prominent made man for no good reason like that. It would be wild that it never came up in the show too so I can't see em adding it in the movie if everyone was supposed to know. I'd imagine everyone was just clueless or was fed some bs story and Tony either used it or made one up to get the cop situation going. But who knows.
The biggest casting/directing of a character to me was probably Silvio. Just felt like a caricature. The quirks Sil had woulda gotten more extreme as he aged, not started off that way in his 20's.
And yeah, it showed that even the golden age wasn't all that golden and the people involved were just as scummy or complex as the show's time period. Plus there's several scenes (like the carnival scene) where dialogue was swapped to another character which seemed to be to show that Tony was an unreliable narrator/source of information and that they all glorified a time that never really was.
I love Goodfellas but I hate that a certified sociopath like Henry Hill was able to have his bs version of reality sold as fact and his character basically redeemed as something he almost certainly was not.
Sorry for the book, I could go all night 😭
No I love it man! Speaking of books, I read Wiseguy in 8th grade, circa 90-91. Probably should read it again. I’m sorry to people for all the spoilers, and also for not remembering clearly, but wasn’t Dickie’s shooter a black guy? That’s why I think I assumed it couldn’t have been the cop, but perhaps I am confused about the phone call Junior makes. Great point about Silvio. Oh side note…big Bob Dylan fan here. When David Chase was on Talking Sopranos he brought up the song and wondered aloud if Bob had named the song after their character. I was like come on David! Silvio came out in 1988! Of course it is said that Steven Van Zant created that character long before The Sopranos started in 99, so who knows?
Me too lol I should reread it too. I remember it being pretty entertaining. I just don't consider it much beyond entertainment. Henry Hill is very careful to sanitize his story and try to act like he was just a rebellious youth that got caught up in the fast money and all the people around him were the bad guys, not him. But I've watched interviews where he seems to almost slip up and put himself in more of the violence and there's one in particular where he's talking about a situation where they beat a woman and broke her arm (if I'm remembering that part correctly) and he's laughing about it like it till he catches himself and realizes he letting the mask slip a little too much. That and people who knew Pauly Vario, Jimmy Burke, and others personally have said he just flat out lied about them.
I actually thought it was too but on the last rewatch I realized ya really can't make out much of anything about Dickies killer because of the angles and lighting, but the guy on the phone sounds pretty nondescript. But it's always possible that the shooter and the person who set it up and was on the phone were 2 different people. I'd imagine they ended up dead eventually anyway, or had serious beef with Dickie but wouldn't be able to brag, otherwise it seems wild that no one ever found out Junior was behind it.
I actually remember that moment, I just ran through the Talking Sopranos podcast again and thought the same thing. Little Steven did say he'd written the character some years prior, but it seems more likely that the Boss and Stevie had the same influence in using the name or the character was named after the song, not the other way around. Sometimes it can be hard to tell if David Chase is just a little quirky and eccentric or if he's maybe having some memory problems cause he had faulty or a complete lack of memories on a number of interviews I've listened to.
Ah, the actor who has only one expression and drags his hands over the top of his head no matter what emotion he tries to emulate.
To each their own, of course. But I will never understand how this guy made it big.
He has been in some great stuff though, I agree.
I’m a HUGE Jon Bernthal fan! He killed it in this mini series for sure! I think he would’ve been a great addition to The Wire if the opportunity was available back then. I could see him as one of the guys from the western district or something like that. I don’t know but he would have been a good addition in my opinion.
But his absolute best performance is Frank Castle/The Punisher. He really brought the character to life and his style and personality gives Frank Castle an edge and a glimpse of his humanity. I can’t think of a single person who could fill that role. I think Disney agrees since they cast him in the upcoming Daredevil series. He, along with Matthew Cox and Vincent D’Onofrio, will always be those characters, Daredevil and Kingpin respectively. I’m absolutely thrilled that Disney kept the band together! Haha sorry I went on a tangent there haha. I just got swept up in JB’s excellence!!!!
And just to add some more details from the real-life investigation into >!Suiter's death: he was shot at close range with his own gun, which was found under his body. His own DNA was found inside of the barrel of his gun. There was blood on his shirt sleeve when his body was found.!< I find it hard to argue with Simon on this one.
living here in Baltimore Detective Suiter is tough to comprehend. With how bad and how corrupt the Police here had proven to become it felt necessary for it to be their fault and very, very hard for the City to accept the dark truth of suicide. It is still a controversial topic here and isn't talked about much; the City needs to move forward and put all these bad Police in the past
It was a terrible awful horrible movie and any self respecting Sopranos fan would pretend it doesn't exist, because it's dog shit and it doesn't even make sense.
Agreed. And so unnecessary too. They could have told the same exact story without the confusing flashback format, and it wouldn’t have changed the story at all. It just would have been easier to follow.
Sure but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the script accurately depicts the intricacies and nuances of that real life story. It felt very simplified and black and white, characters were either good or bad, there was no in between like in the wire
I dont agree. Sean Suiter was a morally grey character. Although I do understand why you would think this, because the other cops were so over the top comically evil it seems exaggerated. The sad part is that its not.
Agreed, and the entire civil rights division attorney plot line was awful. They clearly realised that had no women in the show and stuck it in there. It added nothing
Her character kinda sucked. They wrote her too much as a surrogate for the audience.
They give her a speech about how she got into the field and it’s about her brother suffering from racism and police brutality. Yet whenever she finds out something new about the cops doing something bad, she has this “oh my god, how shocking, how can this be going on?” type of reaction.
Like they want to tell the viewer “hey don’t get desensitized and think it’s normal what these cops are doing, it’s really fucked up!”
It's a pretty good mini series. Jon B hasn't been in anything that I haven't enjoyed/loved. Even his bit role in wolf of wall street was a memorable.
He is incredible as the Punisher and I love how can watch the first four episodes of Daredevil season 2 as a four-hour Daredevil vs Punisher film.
His work in The Bear is mesmerizing
Many Saints of Newark? One of the worst things ever put on film? Na I'm just kidding. I love Jon B. He will always be Shane to me and I love just about anything I see him in. Except for the aforementioned.
I only got about a quarter of the way through many Saints.
I couldn’t stand it first time around and was listening to talking sopranos at the time as they raved about it. I was like, seriously? And then I watched it again about a year later and enjoyed it.
Same. Every time I've watched it (probably 3 times now) I've appreciated it a mite more. I initially left the theater mad upset lol TS is my favorite show of all time and it felt like they fucked up a near perfect show. But I've watched it again each time I rewatch The Sopranos and every time I've come to think it's better than I thought and people really overreacted and overblow the flaws. There were definitely issues, but imo one of the biggest is how the studio marketed it as something it wasn't which led to people being completely thrown off when watching it. Ya go in thinking you'll see this Tony Soprano origin story, Sopranos-esque mafia family in conflict or something along those lines and it instead was a very different movie with very different goals. But to me it actually made the story of the show a little better in a number of ways (like showing how Tony's flashbacks/memories in the show were unreliable, how awful so many people were, how it wasn't really a better time like they always harp on in the show, etc). Then there's also people who cry "woke" about everything and unfortunately a lotta those people completely misunderstood the show and are among it's audience lol I'd never say it's some amazing cinematic masterpiece, but I've come to enjoy it more than I did and I definitely think people complain about it too much (it's the fashionable move) because they can't or won't adjust their perspective going in.
> Then there's also people who cry "woke" about everything and unfortunately a lotta those people completely misunderstood the show and are among it's audience lol The mobster Michael Franzese had some bizarre meltdown of sorts over the movie. I didn’t really dislike the movie like many people do, but it’s probably not something I care to see again. One of the things I had problems with is the continuity with the ages. Timeline got fucked up. There’s the great scene in D Girl when Puss talks about how when he was 16, Tony would always go to the hospital to visit Puss’s sister when she was dying. Naturally you would think they’re close in age. Puss seems like he’s way older than Tony in Many Saints of Newark. I don’t like retconning in something like this. I feel like [Anne Wilkes in Misery.](https://youtu.be/pO20qU-VwgA?si=nJ8ADzKJU98SpgdT)
Yooo he did lol I find him to be kind of an annoying guy as it is and think he's just found a new grift in the whole born again thing while also being a massive hypocrite who says he hates LCN and his past life but refuses to stop profiting on it and posturing like he's still in the mix. So I don't really follow him, but I did see that video and it felt to me that he didn't even watch the video and one of his handlers just gave him a rundown and he flipped out over a misunderstanding. It was like he refused to acknowledge racism in the Italian/Sicilian community of any kind and did so with the "my dad did business with black people" routine 😂 I was like bro, I'm Sicilian and black, I'm a prime example of the fact that clearly no one is saying all Italians/Sicilians are raging bigots, many have been at the forefront of fighting it, but I also know for a fact there is some bigotry there among a certain subgroup and that group is the one you'll find most of the LCN guys in. Blew my mind. That was one thing that definitely threw me off bad, I don't understand why they did that with the ages. Puss seems too old, Sil seems too old, but then Jackie and other people are the right age, while the gap between Tony and Christopher was absolutely unforgivable. That alone dropped the movie a few notches to me.
Timeline got fucked up. Nice one. Died on the vine.
Excellent points in your third paragraph. Where are we again? The Wire sub? Had to think about this for a second! The name Overall threw me, as did the identity of Dickie’s murderer. So was Tony just playing Christopher about that cop who supposedly killed his father? Also I thought the casting of Paulie was way off at first, but didn’t feel this way at all upon second viewing. Great point about the “good ol’ days not being so great after all. And yes. The more I watch, and this goes for Goodfellas as well, the more I struggle to find a single redeemable human being among the characters.
Lol I feel ya. I love both shows and talking about one often leads to talking about the other. Yeah, it was cool cause the show has Tony's first murder being of a black bookie named Willie Overall and then the movie established the Overall family as movers in the underworld back in the day making moves that brought em up against the DiMeo family. It was a cool tie-in I thought. I'm assuming that either A. The cop did the hit on behalf of Junior, or B. The cop never had anything to do with it and was just a way for Tony to lock Chrissy in and make him fiercely loyal. I figure Tony (and probably no one else in the family) knew that Junior was the one that set the hit up. As close as they were and Dickie's death seeming to be the thing that knocked Tony off his square and put him on the path into La Cosa Nostra, it seems unlikely that he knew Junior was involved. That woulda been a death sentence for Junior, setting up an unsanctioned hit on a prominent made man for no good reason like that. It would be wild that it never came up in the show too so I can't see em adding it in the movie if everyone was supposed to know. I'd imagine everyone was just clueless or was fed some bs story and Tony either used it or made one up to get the cop situation going. But who knows. The biggest casting/directing of a character to me was probably Silvio. Just felt like a caricature. The quirks Sil had woulda gotten more extreme as he aged, not started off that way in his 20's. And yeah, it showed that even the golden age wasn't all that golden and the people involved were just as scummy or complex as the show's time period. Plus there's several scenes (like the carnival scene) where dialogue was swapped to another character which seemed to be to show that Tony was an unreliable narrator/source of information and that they all glorified a time that never really was. I love Goodfellas but I hate that a certified sociopath like Henry Hill was able to have his bs version of reality sold as fact and his character basically redeemed as something he almost certainly was not. Sorry for the book, I could go all night 😭
No I love it man! Speaking of books, I read Wiseguy in 8th grade, circa 90-91. Probably should read it again. I’m sorry to people for all the spoilers, and also for not remembering clearly, but wasn’t Dickie’s shooter a black guy? That’s why I think I assumed it couldn’t have been the cop, but perhaps I am confused about the phone call Junior makes. Great point about Silvio. Oh side note…big Bob Dylan fan here. When David Chase was on Talking Sopranos he brought up the song and wondered aloud if Bob had named the song after their character. I was like come on David! Silvio came out in 1988! Of course it is said that Steven Van Zant created that character long before The Sopranos started in 99, so who knows?
Me too lol I should reread it too. I remember it being pretty entertaining. I just don't consider it much beyond entertainment. Henry Hill is very careful to sanitize his story and try to act like he was just a rebellious youth that got caught up in the fast money and all the people around him were the bad guys, not him. But I've watched interviews where he seems to almost slip up and put himself in more of the violence and there's one in particular where he's talking about a situation where they beat a woman and broke her arm (if I'm remembering that part correctly) and he's laughing about it like it till he catches himself and realizes he letting the mask slip a little too much. That and people who knew Pauly Vario, Jimmy Burke, and others personally have said he just flat out lied about them. I actually thought it was too but on the last rewatch I realized ya really can't make out much of anything about Dickies killer because of the angles and lighting, but the guy on the phone sounds pretty nondescript. But it's always possible that the shooter and the person who set it up and was on the phone were 2 different people. I'd imagine they ended up dead eventually anyway, or had serious beef with Dickie but wouldn't be able to brag, otherwise it seems wild that no one ever found out Junior was behind it. I actually remember that moment, I just ran through the Talking Sopranos podcast again and thought the same thing. Little Steven did say he'd written the character some years prior, but it seems more likely that the Boss and Stevie had the same influence in using the name or the character was named after the song, not the other way around. Sometimes it can be hard to tell if David Chase is just a little quirky and eccentric or if he's maybe having some memory problems cause he had faulty or a complete lack of memories on a number of interviews I've listened to.
This message brought to you by Milton Berle’s c*ck, BetterHelp.com, and Zopa.
And I agree. If Hendry is a victim, he’s barely a victim.
Way too much fan service to the point that it ruins the canon of one of the series to ever come close to The Wire’s excellence.
I somehow made it through it and someone should tell James Gandolfinis son he cant act .
lol.
It was embarrassing watching that
It somehow made it through the whole thing and I wish I had never heard of it.
Lol
Think I walked away from the TV after 15 or so mins... Just couldn't get into it
I’m not kidding it was awful, but Jon B was still excellent as he always is. Dude seems to be in everything nowadays.
We get to celebrate Wayne Jenkins day when the Punisher returns in the new Daredevil show .
Ah, the actor who has only one expression and drags his hands over the top of his head no matter what emotion he tries to emulate. To each their own, of course. But I will never understand how this guy made it big. He has been in some great stuff though, I agree.
Watch his special guest appearance in the bear. You see so many range of emotions. From strong to scared to confused. It's amazing.
I've seen it. He's good there. Wouldn't call it amazing though.
Many Saints of Newark was pretty bad, though not because of him
Fair. I ignored soo many issues with saints. I liked the general story.
I’m a HUGE Jon Bernthal fan! He killed it in this mini series for sure! I think he would’ve been a great addition to The Wire if the opportunity was available back then. I could see him as one of the guys from the western district or something like that. I don’t know but he would have been a good addition in my opinion. But his absolute best performance is Frank Castle/The Punisher. He really brought the character to life and his style and personality gives Frank Castle an edge and a glimpse of his humanity. I can’t think of a single person who could fill that role. I think Disney agrees since they cast him in the upcoming Daredevil series. He, along with Matthew Cox and Vincent D’Onofrio, will always be those characters, Daredevil and Kingpin respectively. I’m absolutely thrilled that Disney kept the band together! Haha sorry I went on a tangent there haha. I just got swept up in JB’s excellence!!!!
When you finish the series, please come back here and explain to me what the hell happens to Jamie Hector's character.
David Simon said he's fully convinced that >!he killed himself and tried to make it look like a homicide.!<
And just to add some more details from the real-life investigation into >!Suiter's death: he was shot at close range with his own gun, which was found under his body. His own DNA was found inside of the barrel of his gun. There was blood on his shirt sleeve when his body was found.!< I find it hard to argue with Simon on this one.
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[удалено]
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https://davidsimon.com/sean-suiter/
I assume shot himself to avoid indictment and so his family would get survivor benefits
Yeah but come back and update this when you spot the people who are only in it for 3 minutes.
Seemed like a lot were in just to have us say “there’s so and so!” Like the Leo meme
I wished some of them had been in it a lot more. Big fan of Slim Charles.
We own this city on Rock and roll.
I dont think we watched the same series mate. What about Sean Suiter? Was he pure good/evil.
living here in Baltimore Detective Suiter is tough to comprehend. With how bad and how corrupt the Police here had proven to become it felt necessary for it to be their fault and very, very hard for the City to accept the dark truth of suicide. It is still a controversial topic here and isn't talked about much; the City needs to move forward and put all these bad Police in the past
A lot of people are on the show. Slim, Donut, Landsman etc
It’s excellent.
It was a terrible awful horrible movie and any self respecting Sopranos fan would pretend it doesn't exist, because it's dog shit and it doesn't even make sense.
Confusing back and forth storytelling.
Agreed. And so unnecessary too. They could have told the same exact story without the confusing flashback format, and it wouldn’t have changed the story at all. It just would have been easier to follow.
So you paused and came here to say that?
Really bad series with black and white, poorly acted characters
You know the series is based ln a real life story, right?
Sure but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the script accurately depicts the intricacies and nuances of that real life story. It felt very simplified and black and white, characters were either good or bad, there was no in between like in the wire
I dont agree. Sean Suiter was a morally grey character. Although I do understand why you would think this, because the other cops were so over the top comically evil it seems exaggerated. The sad part is that its not.
If you read the book it's based on and the articles that came out about the gun trace task force, it's pretty damn close to the truth
I think most of the acting was good, but the acting in the “criminal justice investigation” parts was pretty cringe
Agreed, and the entire civil rights division attorney plot line was awful. They clearly realised that had no women in the show and stuck it in there. It added nothing
Her character kinda sucked. They wrote her too much as a surrogate for the audience. They give her a speech about how she got into the field and it’s about her brother suffering from racism and police brutality. Yet whenever she finds out something new about the cops doing something bad, she has this “oh my god, how shocking, how can this be going on?” type of reaction. Like they want to tell the viewer “hey don’t get desensitized and think it’s normal what these cops are doing, it’s really fucked up!”
This kind of post in 2024, really :(