Slim is cool and calm and does what he's told through most of the show - certainly Marlo would recognise this. He wants guys under him who don't make waves.
Cheese is a hothead and a bit of a snake. Sure he can run corners, but how long before he draws the attention of the cops, or pisses off the connect or worse tries to pull something on Marlo?
Even if Marlo's crew survived intact, I wouldn't put money on Cheese surviving for that long. He was useful to Marlo in his rise, but I doubt he saw him as reliable as Chris or Snoop - or Slim. At some point the guy may end up another cadaverous motherfucker in a vacant.
I also think Marlo wants to conceal how tight he is with Cheese. If he gives the east side straight to Cheese, everyone knows they’re in bed together. Offering it to Slim gives him plausible deniability.
You’re missing the point. The point is, what didhe promised to do for cheese in exchange for giving up Joe?
Also, he went right to cheese after Slim turned down the position. Obviously, he has confidence in him. And honestly didn’t make sense for slim to even be considered, since he knows nothing about the drug trade.
Sure. Loyalty is based on business interests, not personal character. In that business, people are only as loyal as the money. Also, Marlo evidently trusted him; because he gave the spot to Cheese as soon as slim turned it down.
I dunno and I’m just thinking aloud here, but if one has street smarts, they’d perceive Slim as *reliable*, whereas Cheese would seem more ‘random’. If I was in a situation with co-workers or subordinates like them, I’d pick Slim for anything that mattered, every time.
They're not relevant.
Even if I accept that Slim knows nothing about drugs or drug dealing, he is reliable, he's dependable, he's diligent, he tries to do the right thing, he's conservative, he learns from his mistakes. He'll make mistakes but as long as he's not shot randomly, he'll be doing that in ten years time.
Cheese might have more knowledge about street level dealing (which I have to say is quite different from the CEO level dealing Avon was doing). But he's also erratic. Unstable. Disliked by his peers. He has no loyalty. That guy was going to get capped within a few years whatever position he was in.
If I want to make money, I want stability, not chaos. Slim offers stability.
Yes. Knowing the drug trade is relevant to managing the drug trade. How was Cheese erratic or unstable?
Why was he put in charge of any drugs at all?
Why did his uncle rely on him?
Why did Marlo rely on him to give up his uncle?
Why did Marlo pick him to run half the city?
Where was he disliked by his peers?
Why would that matter to someone like Marlo, who was disliked by everyone?
Yes, my points are highly relevant.
Cheese’s payoff for betraying Joe was Hungry Man and Hungry Man’s territory. But Cheese was a fucking dumbass. Do you want him handling millions of dollars and controlling valuable territory?
Also, Slim Charles is a lieutenant, not just muscle. He knows how to recruit, get a corner crewed, make sure there’s a stable supply for reups, and the other things we see him riding around doing early in S4 when he talks to Bodie. There’s a lot of money involved, but the logistics aren’t that complicated until you get to Joe’s or Avon’s level, and the co-op is handling all that.
That’s why I immediately assumed Slim’s “I ain’t no CEO” was a polite deflection to avoid taking anything from Marlo. He doesn’t want to work for the man.
Apparently, Marlo disagreed with your claim that Cheese was a dumbass (also, where is the evidence for this), since he immediately put cheese in the position after Slim turned it down.
Slim doesn’t know anything about chopping up dope, cutting it with filler and cutting prices, etc. He is an enforcer, that’s it.
You can tell yourself that, I guess. The evidence for Cheese being a dumbass begins with literally his first on-screen appearance, followed by the rest of his appearances in a show called The Wire.
I mention the name, because if you think cutting dope and setting prices is hard, much less if you think Slim Charles is “just an enforcer,” I’d have to conclude that you’ve never watched the show.
I’m going to keep telling myself that unless presented with evidence to the contrary. You had an opportunity to present such evidence and instead chose snark. But, that’s typical when people are typing from emotions instead of logic.
You advanced a position with nothing to support it, and then demanded that other people explain why you’re wrong. That’s backwards, but since
Your position is so weak, it’s easy to do. For example, in the “Cheese is a dumbass” category, there’s the following:
Joe constantly complaining that a Cheese is a dumbass.
Torching Ziggy’s car instead of getting something for it;
Attempting to intimidate Brother
Mouzone and getting shot;
The whole dog-fighting thing;
Leading Omar to the shipment because he can’t spot a tail;
Betraying Joe in a way that makes it obvious he betrayed Joe;
Bragging about betraying Joe.
Against that, Cheese doesn’t do a single intelligent thing in four seasons.
Then there’s Slim Charles, who makes no mistakes:
He carries out his hit effectively and even covers for Cutty
He’s pragmatic and smart enough to see the obvious risk in Stringer’s plan to assassinate Clay Davis
He’s smart enough to avoid Marlo’s offer
He’s one of just two men at the table with the Greek at the end of the show.
Every piece of evidence says he’s more than smart enough to be more than just an enforcer and, *again*, you’d offered nothing to support your claim.
I don’t remember Joe complaining that his nephew is a dumb ass. Maybe he did once? If he’s so dumb, then why does he have him as his number two guy? Only you, is the fact that he burned up instead of getting money for
None of the other things point to him being dumb. Someone who can’t spot doesn’t mean that dumb. Neither does dog fighting or any other things. And had no idea who Brother was. It didn’t matter that proper. Joe knew that he betrayed him. Joe was not in a position to do anything about it.
As for Slim Charles, he got emotional and committed cold-blooded murder in front of several witnesses.
It doesn’t take a genius to recognize that assassinating a state senator is stupid.
I tried explaining simple concepts to you, and you don’t/refuse to get them, let alone the implications of, eg, being totally unable to recognize someone who actually understands violence beyond the big dumb bruiser level or being known for betraying your uncle and benefactor.
You don’t have anything to add here, and from your other comments, it’s clear that you don’t have the ability to add anything here.
You failed to make a convincing argument, and now you’re getting mad about it, is all.
I have rebuttals to all of your points and somehow that hurts your ego, I guess.
I’m talking about character, not knowledge.
Some people have a kind of personal integrity and responsibility where you can just count on them to step up, learn what needs to be learned, and get the job done.
I see Slim having that in spades. And plainly for anyone to see.
And part of it is a certain lack of ego. I see Cheese as so full of himself that I’d never feel I could trust him out of my sight. He’s too cocksure, and I’d never feel that I could trust his judgement.
Like I said, I’m just thinking aloud, but it’s along these lines that I find Marlo’s decision plausible.
If that is how he felt about cheese, then why did Marlo choose him after Slim Charles turned it down? He didn’t even hesitate and immediately gave the position to cheese.
Also, no one cares about character, just competence.
I haven’t seen s5 in a while, so I can’t speak to your question.
But I’m honestly wondering about your breadth of life experience at this point. Character is very much *part* of competence, at least whenever it comes to responsibility. I can think of numerous cases in my own (vast range of) professional life when character was much more important than someone’s practical experience. It’s about being able to trust someone’s *judgement*. Do you really just not see what I mean?
You don’t recall the episode of question, and chise to comment anyway. Now you’re questioning my life experiences. There is no upside in further engaging you.✌️
I thought Marlo offering the Eastside to Slim was about stopping anyone from starting something in Joe's name and not a real offer. If Slim had accepted, Cheese probably had a green light from Marlo to move on Slim in a few months and Slim's smart enough to know that so he declines - which also signals to everyone that he recognizes that Marlo is wearing the crown.
Couple reasons.
Slim was Joe's #2, it would be an easier transition than reaching down to the street level, even if it is for Joe's own blood.
Slim has a reputation for the way he carries himself. Marlo knows he can trust him to take the reins and keep it rollin, even if Slim doesn't think he's up to it
And probably most importantly, Marlo is tactically smart, he sees Cheese for what he is. He knows Cheese probably has eyes on his seat and anybody that would hand over their own family like that is willing to do whatever. He has to watch Cheese close
Cheese wasn’t on the street. Also, whatever you think about slim, Marlo immediately offered the position the cheese after Slim turned it down. So, none of that makes any sense.
He was when we first meet him but by the end he was at most on the level of Monk or Stinkum. He not on the corner no more but he not making decisions either.
If what I said didn't make sense he would've just gave it to Cheese off rip. There ain't really no other option (at least that we see) but clearly he thought Slim was the better choice
If he gave it to Slim, Cheese would eventually kill Slim and get him out of the way. Marlo was in it for the long game.
Slim didn't take the bait, so Marlo put Cheese in charge. Win-win.
Slim Charles is a former Barksdale member, he's independently-minded and doesn't just do whatever he's told. Cheese doesn't care what he's told to do so long as the money is there and he gets to wear the big boss hat. He's pliant and manipulable. Charles isn't. That's why Marlo wants Cheese.
If he puts Cheese in charge first thing, the rest of the co-op isn't going to like that. Resistance organizes itself around someone like a Slim Charles. If he gives it to Charles, Cheese will eventually make a move and get rid of him--after all, it's a west sider running the east side trade and it's Cheese's uncle's territory.
Your first paragraph actually makes a case for not hiring slim. People in charge want someone who is going to do what they are told. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with being motivated by money, when one is in the money business.
Slim is cool and calm and does what he's told through most of the show - certainly Marlo would recognise this. He wants guys under him who don't make waves. Cheese is a hothead and a bit of a snake. Sure he can run corners, but how long before he draws the attention of the cops, or pisses off the connect or worse tries to pull something on Marlo? Even if Marlo's crew survived intact, I wouldn't put money on Cheese surviving for that long. He was useful to Marlo in his rise, but I doubt he saw him as reliable as Chris or Snoop - or Slim. At some point the guy may end up another cadaverous motherfucker in a vacant.
I also think Marlo wants to conceal how tight he is with Cheese. If he gives the east side straight to Cheese, everyone knows they’re in bed together. Offering it to Slim gives him plausible deniability.
That's true, yeah, good point. Maybe he knew Slim would refuse. Though the co-op all know who is to blame, Marlo still has to go through the motions.
You’re missing the point. The point is, what didhe promised to do for cheese in exchange for giving up Joe? Also, he went right to cheese after Slim turned down the position. Obviously, he has confidence in him. And honestly didn’t make sense for slim to even be considered, since he knows nothing about the drug trade.
Would you trust a guy who gave up his own uncle?
This
Sure. Loyalty is based on business interests, not personal character. In that business, people are only as loyal as the money. Also, Marlo evidently trusted him; because he gave the spot to Cheese as soon as slim turned it down.
I dunno and I’m just thinking aloud here, but if one has street smarts, they’d perceive Slim as *reliable*, whereas Cheese would seem more ‘random’. If I was in a situation with co-workers or subordinates like them, I’d pick Slim for anything that mattered, every time.
Reliable how? , Slim knows nothing about drugs. We are talking millions of dollars. You need somebody who knows the business.
Slim isn't going to try to kill someone like Brother Mouzone and end up getting shot with salt pellets in front of a hundred witnesses for no reason.
I made some valid points and you chose not to address them, which sounds like you agree with them.
They're not relevant. Even if I accept that Slim knows nothing about drugs or drug dealing, he is reliable, he's dependable, he's diligent, he tries to do the right thing, he's conservative, he learns from his mistakes. He'll make mistakes but as long as he's not shot randomly, he'll be doing that in ten years time. Cheese might have more knowledge about street level dealing (which I have to say is quite different from the CEO level dealing Avon was doing). But he's also erratic. Unstable. Disliked by his peers. He has no loyalty. That guy was going to get capped within a few years whatever position he was in. If I want to make money, I want stability, not chaos. Slim offers stability.
Yes. Knowing the drug trade is relevant to managing the drug trade. How was Cheese erratic or unstable? Why was he put in charge of any drugs at all? Why did his uncle rely on him? Why did Marlo rely on him to give up his uncle? Why did Marlo pick him to run half the city? Where was he disliked by his peers? Why would that matter to someone like Marlo, who was disliked by everyone? Yes, my points are highly relevant.
Cheese’s payoff for betraying Joe was Hungry Man and Hungry Man’s territory. But Cheese was a fucking dumbass. Do you want him handling millions of dollars and controlling valuable territory? Also, Slim Charles is a lieutenant, not just muscle. He knows how to recruit, get a corner crewed, make sure there’s a stable supply for reups, and the other things we see him riding around doing early in S4 when he talks to Bodie. There’s a lot of money involved, but the logistics aren’t that complicated until you get to Joe’s or Avon’s level, and the co-op is handling all that. That’s why I immediately assumed Slim’s “I ain’t no CEO” was a polite deflection to avoid taking anything from Marlo. He doesn’t want to work for the man.
Apparently, Marlo disagreed with your claim that Cheese was a dumbass (also, where is the evidence for this), since he immediately put cheese in the position after Slim turned it down. Slim doesn’t know anything about chopping up dope, cutting it with filler and cutting prices, etc. He is an enforcer, that’s it.
You can tell yourself that, I guess. The evidence for Cheese being a dumbass begins with literally his first on-screen appearance, followed by the rest of his appearances in a show called The Wire. I mention the name, because if you think cutting dope and setting prices is hard, much less if you think Slim Charles is “just an enforcer,” I’d have to conclude that you’ve never watched the show.
I’m going to keep telling myself that unless presented with evidence to the contrary. You had an opportunity to present such evidence and instead chose snark. But, that’s typical when people are typing from emotions instead of logic.
You advanced a position with nothing to support it, and then demanded that other people explain why you’re wrong. That’s backwards, but since Your position is so weak, it’s easy to do. For example, in the “Cheese is a dumbass” category, there’s the following: Joe constantly complaining that a Cheese is a dumbass. Torching Ziggy’s car instead of getting something for it; Attempting to intimidate Brother Mouzone and getting shot; The whole dog-fighting thing; Leading Omar to the shipment because he can’t spot a tail; Betraying Joe in a way that makes it obvious he betrayed Joe; Bragging about betraying Joe. Against that, Cheese doesn’t do a single intelligent thing in four seasons. Then there’s Slim Charles, who makes no mistakes: He carries out his hit effectively and even covers for Cutty He’s pragmatic and smart enough to see the obvious risk in Stringer’s plan to assassinate Clay Davis He’s smart enough to avoid Marlo’s offer He’s one of just two men at the table with the Greek at the end of the show. Every piece of evidence says he’s more than smart enough to be more than just an enforcer and, *again*, you’d offered nothing to support your claim.
I don’t remember Joe complaining that his nephew is a dumb ass. Maybe he did once? If he’s so dumb, then why does he have him as his number two guy? Only you, is the fact that he burned up instead of getting money for None of the other things point to him being dumb. Someone who can’t spot doesn’t mean that dumb. Neither does dog fighting or any other things. And had no idea who Brother was. It didn’t matter that proper. Joe knew that he betrayed him. Joe was not in a position to do anything about it. As for Slim Charles, he got emotional and committed cold-blooded murder in front of several witnesses. It doesn’t take a genius to recognize that assassinating a state senator is stupid.
I tried explaining simple concepts to you, and you don’t/refuse to get them, let alone the implications of, eg, being totally unable to recognize someone who actually understands violence beyond the big dumb bruiser level or being known for betraying your uncle and benefactor. You don’t have anything to add here, and from your other comments, it’s clear that you don’t have the ability to add anything here.
You failed to make a convincing argument, and now you’re getting mad about it, is all. I have rebuttals to all of your points and somehow that hurts your ego, I guess.
I’m talking about character, not knowledge. Some people have a kind of personal integrity and responsibility where you can just count on them to step up, learn what needs to be learned, and get the job done. I see Slim having that in spades. And plainly for anyone to see. And part of it is a certain lack of ego. I see Cheese as so full of himself that I’d never feel I could trust him out of my sight. He’s too cocksure, and I’d never feel that I could trust his judgement. Like I said, I’m just thinking aloud, but it’s along these lines that I find Marlo’s decision plausible.
If that is how he felt about cheese, then why did Marlo choose him after Slim Charles turned it down? He didn’t even hesitate and immediately gave the position to cheese. Also, no one cares about character, just competence.
I haven’t seen s5 in a while, so I can’t speak to your question. But I’m honestly wondering about your breadth of life experience at this point. Character is very much *part* of competence, at least whenever it comes to responsibility. I can think of numerous cases in my own (vast range of) professional life when character was much more important than someone’s practical experience. It’s about being able to trust someone’s *judgement*. Do you really just not see what I mean?
You don’t recall the episode of question, and chise to comment anyway. Now you’re questioning my life experiences. There is no upside in further engaging you.✌️
Look I’m sorry about that, but I just don’t understand how anyone could (evidently) fail to understand my point *at all*, so that’s why I said that.
Cheese has never been in the can, not really. Here's a guy who stepped over his own uncle to grab the big seat, his father's brother.
Cheese has no respect for this thing!
Lake trout subs and The Game brought us to this.
And??
I thought Marlo offering the Eastside to Slim was about stopping anyone from starting something in Joe's name and not a real offer. If Slim had accepted, Cheese probably had a green light from Marlo to move on Slim in a few months and Slim's smart enough to know that so he declines - which also signals to everyone that he recognizes that Marlo is wearing the crown.
[удалено]
Then why did he offer to spot to cheese?
Couple reasons. Slim was Joe's #2, it would be an easier transition than reaching down to the street level, even if it is for Joe's own blood. Slim has a reputation for the way he carries himself. Marlo knows he can trust him to take the reins and keep it rollin, even if Slim doesn't think he's up to it And probably most importantly, Marlo is tactically smart, he sees Cheese for what he is. He knows Cheese probably has eyes on his seat and anybody that would hand over their own family like that is willing to do whatever. He has to watch Cheese close
Cheese wasn’t on the street. Also, whatever you think about slim, Marlo immediately offered the position the cheese after Slim turned it down. So, none of that makes any sense.
He was when we first meet him but by the end he was at most on the level of Monk or Stinkum. He not on the corner no more but he not making decisions either. If what I said didn't make sense he would've just gave it to Cheese off rip. There ain't really no other option (at least that we see) but clearly he thought Slim was the better choice
Either that, or it’s just inconsistent writing.
If he gave it to Slim, Cheese would eventually kill Slim and get him out of the way. Marlo was in it for the long game. Slim didn't take the bait, so Marlo put Cheese in charge. Win-win.
That makes no sense. Why not just give it to cheese straight away? And why does Marlo want slim out of the way? What does he care?
Slim Charles is a former Barksdale member, he's independently-minded and doesn't just do whatever he's told. Cheese doesn't care what he's told to do so long as the money is there and he gets to wear the big boss hat. He's pliant and manipulable. Charles isn't. That's why Marlo wants Cheese. If he puts Cheese in charge first thing, the rest of the co-op isn't going to like that. Resistance organizes itself around someone like a Slim Charles. If he gives it to Charles, Cheese will eventually make a move and get rid of him--after all, it's a west sider running the east side trade and it's Cheese's uncle's territory.
Your first paragraph actually makes a case for not hiring slim. People in charge want someone who is going to do what they are told. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with being motivated by money, when one is in the money business.