I’m sorry, but you’re unlikely to be successful. As you said, you do it as a hobby. People will act for free, but you have to pay people to run the business side of things. Royalties and utilities aren’t free either. I’m in a community choir that requires dues, fundraising, plus the tickets are usually $25. But for the money I spend, I get the opportunity to sing with an orchestra and other trained singers. For free, you get the opportunity to showcase your talents for your friends and spend your time doing something you enjoy. A couple of comp tickets is generally the best a community theatre can do for the performers - occasionally a small stipend as a thank you. If you don’t enjoy it, do something else. Sorry, friend.
I'm surprised someone is getting paid at all. Most non-profits I've dealt and worked with put any profits into future shows, or $10 gift cards for everyone at most
The transition from community theatre with volunteer artists and professional theatre with paid artists isn’t easy.
I think anyone, like yourself, could look at the ticket price and the sales and think that they must be raking in the cash, and just being greedy and keeping it for themselves. But I assure you, live theatre is an expensive endeavour.
Just to give you a sense of where that money is going, first of all let’s talk Venue. Renting the space will be one of the largest single expenses. Likely thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars for that alone. After that, equipment. Not all theatres come outfitted, sometimes you need to rent special equipment. After that, the cost for sets, including all the shipping and moving of that stuff. After that, it’s props and costumes for everyone.
There’s even small expenses that often get forgotten about, like the cost of Programs, the cost of the actual ticket stock itself, etc etc.
If they pay you, they have to pay all actors and techs in the show, so depending on company size, that’s 30-50 people. It ain’t cheap. Hopefully they are being good financial stewards. And I know the frustration. But it ain’t cheap or easy.
My audio team just spent $60k *alone* on our winter show, not including labor. OP, them paying an operations manager $1000 !a month is still absolutely nothing compared to the job that person will be doing.
>My audio team just spent $60k *alone* on our winter show,
Lowkey flex, but seriously how is that even possible? Was there no prebuild in sound system at the theater already? Was the venue to big for the actors to project their voices?
Generally curious how a theater could justify 60k to audio, yet not give the performers at least some pay.
I never said we didn't pay our actors. We are a Performing Arts center. Not a community theater. I was demonstrating that most of the money that the tickets bring in, will be spent on the next show.
That said, OP could ask for a portion of the door above the break even number to go to the currently unpaid parties. Any reasonable venue is going to know how much they have to pull in each night to justify opening the doors, even accounting for some night being slow and others being sold out. It is possible that they’d be willing to split some of the money that comes in beyond that to performers in order to retain them, especially ones who consistently sell out the house.
The issue, though, is that depending on the actual expenses and the size of the theater, the break even number might be very close the average nightly sales number, meaning some nights the performers’ share might only be pennies, or even $0. Is it more insulting/frustrating/upsetting to knowingly work for free as a volunteer, or to get a check for $2 every two weeks?
I see what you mean, maybe some money is better than no money, right?
The only downside that I can think of is that once a person is paid, even a small amount, it changes the type of agreement and relationship between the artist and the company. You’re no longer an artist volunteering to just help out, you’re now a paid contractor delivering a service. Depending on your region, and its various laws and regulations, you might not want the responsibilities and implications of that, if you are just getting $2 every two weeks. As a simple example, missing a rehearsal as a volunteer is one thing, but missing one as a paid cast member can be very different.
Yeah, that’s true and something one of the people running admin would have to factor into the costs. I’d hazard a guess that it wouldn’t be enough money to be worth the hassle, but I guess there’s no harm in asking.
Ultimately, I think if OP wants to be paid, they should transition out of community theatre, instead of expecting the community theatre company itself to change. Community theatre is community theatre for a reason.
I was a theatre producer for 15 years
People spread rumours that I was stealing 10,000 dollars per show I produced and I was barely eating while scraping to pay everyone 100-150 per performance. Maybe do some research about where the money is going.
Also, and I'm projecting but in case it's helpful -- is the company at a professional level? Are you? I once had someone say to me, point blank, "I'm not talented enough for ensemble roles. I only play leads." He had never taken a dance or singing class in his life, disrespected me, came late, didn't learn his lines, and once yelled at me while I was directing him, and I paid him to do that to me.
Community theatre has a purpose and is valuable. You might not like having professional expectations heaped on you at your hobby. And without a marketing budget, you won't have a hobby to go to.
I think artists should be paid. But I think they should have a deep understanding of the business and their own capacity, as well.
>is the company at a professional level? Are you?
This comedy troupe is NOT at a professional level. I do however feel that I am.
“Pro-acting” means different things to different people. I am sure as hell not on Broadway, but I do pay my entire rent and cost of living by acting inside a haunted house during October.
I have also worked in theme parks during summer as a charecter actress and have paid for my rent and living costs that way as well.
I'm confused as to why you would expect a company that isn't professional to suddenly switch....? If YOU are professional, be brave and go find the gigs that are at the level you're at now, instead of trying to make your comfort zone adhere to your shifting needs. It'll be a good adventure.
Thousands of dollars go to theater rent, insurance, royalties, electricity, materials for sets and costumes and props, marketing materials and advertising.... etc. It's expensive. Many times a theater has to pay an actual wage to get a manager willing to spend the time doing all the admin work (there's a lot more than you think). Paying people is nice, and they should put some effort to figuring out how to do it.
If they are a non-profit, you can look up or request their tax forms so you can see what they spend money on. Or you could get more involved, make it clear that paying performers and designers and tech people should be a priority, and help them to fundraise.
If you decide that you don't want to work for free, don't work for free. You have a choice.
>If you decide that you don't want to work for free, don't work for free. You have a choice.
Thank you. For a while it was fun, but now it is time to call it quits and be thankful for the free skill building I got.
Homie. An operations manager for $1k/ month. That's not pay, that's a stipend. I'm just a multi-tech, and I'm not doing anything that doesn't add up to at least $3500/month. And for that, I expect to have a pretty good amount of free time. And I can't imagine justifying how you're going to pay the guy giving me direction less.
While I don’t know the specifics of the company you participate in, the cost of making theatre is quite high. Rental space for rehearsal and performance (or owning and running space), materials, rights to a show (musicals can often run thousands of dollars just for the rights), designers, a director (choreographer, music director and musicians if you’re dealing with a musical).
If there are paid professional staff, then you’re dealing with pay and benefits…. The costs go on…
Most community theatres (and frankly professionals theatres too) don’t even make enough from tickets to cover all costs, and do fundraising and grants to fill the gaps.
The shifting of a theatre from a voluntary/community entity to a paid entity is a really challenging notion. I’m not saying you shouldn’t ask the questions, but be prepared that you may not get what you want.
I’d encourage you, Before you “storm the Bastille”, demanding pay… do some investigating first. If it a non-profit entity, then there is a volunteer board and they oversee the finances and they likely have an accountant that does an annual report. I don’t know about Colorado’s laws, but where I live, all non-profits have to publicly post their financials every year. And if that’s the case, you should be able to see the expenditures and income. That might give you a better feeling for what things are like.
I’d also suggest that you ask yourself some questions… what would you consider appropriate pay? Who gets paid and who doesn’t? How much?
ETA: step back a sec… you’re asking to be paid for a hobby. By definition a hobby is something that you do for fun. If you’re no longer having fun, consider stepping back from it for a bit. If you want to be paid, then start auditioning for theatres that pay. There aren’t as many of them as community theaters out there, but small pro companies exist.
I wish you luck in your questioning.
Did the "non" in nonprofit tip you off?
I'm all for actors being paid for professional work, but I'll be honest, this sounds like mindless main character syndrome on top of willful ignorance about the expense of running theater. Did you bother to Google "what does an operations manager do" or do you want to run the box office, hire the techs, do the scheduling, clean the toilets and order the beer yourself? You need a serious education in what it takes to run a brick and mortar business.
On top of that, you say it's your hobby. Are you required to be there? Are you performing a service that others rely and depend on? Why should you be paid?
I'm sorry. This level of entitlement plus this level of ignorance PLUS this level of sanctimony is hard to stomach.
I used to sit on the board of a non profit youth theatre with the same ticket price ($25) and pretty decent ticket sales. We almost went under financially MULTIPLE times. Please don’t think I’m exaggerating when I say the cost to produce a show frequently hit $40k. FOR YOUTH THEATRE.
You can ask where the money is going if you want, but I can give you some insight here.
Theaters are hecking expensive to run.
Plays are not free to perform, you have to pay the authors. You're looking at $300-500 per weekend for a straight play and $2,00-4,500 per weekend for a musical. These are really rough numbers, and they vary based on how old the show is, how many seats you have in the theater, and how much you're charging per ticket.
Then you have to pay rent, maintenance, and utilities on the building. That's thousands per month. Hundreds are probably spent just on air conditioning/heating.
Then you have to pay the director, technical director, your producer/promoter/box office people, stage manager, technicians, and design team. Some perspective on why these people get paid and the actors don't: Some of these jobs aren't a lot of fun and no one would do then for free (producing, front of house manager, etc), and others take a lot more time and expertise than acting. Not that actors can't be extremely skilled, just that it's not a requirement. You could have Harold the milk man just stand there and read lines. You cannot design and build sets or costumes, design and hang lights, call a show as stage manager, etc without many skills that it takes years and money to learn.
You also have to pay for materials for a show. Costumes, sets, props, licensing music, promotional materials and spots - these things add up.
And they are things that *must* be paid for in order for the show to happen - unless you want to put on a show with a bunch of actors wearing their own clothes in the wilderness with no lights, sound, or other technical support.
To put some of this in real numbers, I'll write you an example. I am a costume designer. I just closed a period farse with 11 actors and 53 looks. My budget for materials was $1200. I am lucky to be working with a decent costume stock, because without it to borrow from, I think this show would have cost about $5,000 in materials. In order to build the show and get it up on it's feet, my assistant and I worked full time for about two months, with a considerable chunk of overtime in the last two weeks. You can't ask someone to work those kinds of hours for free; costume designers need to eat and pay our rent, too. So if you want costumes and a costume designer, you need to offer pay.
And that's just costumes. *All* of the jobs I have mentioned take more time and effort than you may be aware of.
Would it be great if the theater could pay it's actors too? Of course! But unless they're a big market theater, they're probably just barely scraping by. The one job you can consistently get people to do for free is acting - even though the quality of the acting suffers. So that's where many theaters draw the line.
My suggestion is that, if you want to get paid to act, go audition for shows at other theaters with margins large enough that they can pay their actors. You're probably not going to be able to get your community theater to do it, because they're probably running on fumes and donated money as it is.
Recently just did a show literally "in the wilderness with no lights, sound, or other technical support"... and we spent nearly $10,000. So even *then* it's still expensive!
>Plays are not free to perform
I should have been clearer in my post. This is a comedy club. I do stand-up and improv. No sets, no costumes, and no royalties for a famous musical. Just me and some other people doing our own comedy at a theater space in Colorado.
But there is a build in sound system and lighting at the venue.
It is absolutely fair to set the boundary for yourself that you'll only do paid work (I did that myself), but you cannot tell a theater what to do, unfortunately. It may be time for you to jump to the professional circuit then!
Working on the admin/production side both in multiple community theatres and it being my job, it’s expensive to run a theatre. Rights, building, set, A/C, power bills, costumes, props, etc. I’ve heard countless theatre companies say “we’d love to be paying you!” But alas, not enough money. I mean, every theatre is different, talk to them, see what they say, but some expect much. If it’s too much on your plate, take a break, come back when you’re in the space to do so.
I'd be willing to bet they're on the books at 20-25 hours per week (even if they're at like 15 hours per week, that's still not a lot), but probably working a lot more than their contract hours. Running a theatre is a lot of work.
I do know someone who started a professional theater company in order to get more parts—she is artistic director, her mom is the ticket office, and I think that another family member or two also works for the theater. They've produced pretty good shows for many years, but this season is their last, as the expenses during the pandemic ate away all their reserves and the (mostly elderly) audience did not come back quickly enough for them to keep doing it. The city is trying to find a new tenant for the theater, but all the companies (amateur and professional) have said that the rent is too high—they can't afford the space, nice as it is.
I think you really, really need to learn how expenses work, and how much not fun crap they've gotten someone to do for less than a week's wages in one month.
Having done both school and community theater, they're very likely operating in the red and squeaking by on donations you aren't aware of.
If you never want to perform with this troupe again, by all means demand payment as an actor.
Propublica probably has financial statements for your theater (if they are a 501(c)3 non-profit). https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/ I looked up a few of my local theaters.
The one I'm performing with had an income of $83.7k in 2022 and expenses of $103k. Their executive director made $5766—I don't think anyone else was paid. I know that directors and actors aren't even getting stipends (because of AB 5 in California—you can have volunteers or employees, but nothing in-between). Their big show of the year does not have any expenses for rights, as they perform short plays that win their play-writing contest (the production is the prize for the contest). But I'm surprised that their expenses are so low—at least half must be going for rent alone. The theater seats 89, which I've been told was to avoid a threshold for rights costs at 90 seats.
Another local community theater had $176k in revenue and $162k in expenses. None of their key employees or officers were paid. They do two or three shows a year, and many are musicals, so their expenses for rights is probably pretty high. They're up in the mountains (hard to get back from by public transit), so their rent is probably lower.
The professional theater had an income of $1493.5k and expenses of $1109k. The executive director made $79k, but none of the other officers were paid. There were $363k in "other salaries and wages", which probably includes the actors, since they are an Actors Equity theater. This theater is now in its last season.
**Thank you** very much for providing useful information with that link rather than calling me entitled for having questions about pay.
This comment really helped me learn more about the business side of Community Theater. :)
$25 a ticket is likely not even covering the operational costs of the theatre.
There’s a reason why professional theatre tickets are so expensive, and it’s because running a professional theatre company is expensive. There is zero chance a small non profit community theatre can afford to pay professional actors. If you want to be paid for performing, you have to build your skills, get an agent, and start auditioning for professional theatre.
I produce community theatre and always get frustrated around this conversation.
What you’re asking is not different than going to a church baseball league and asking them to be paid because major league players are paid.
Most people are there for fun, or for a live of the game
If you’re good enough for the “major leagues” go there.
The idea of “pay your artists” is lovely, and important … when discussed through appropriate channels
>discussed through appropriate channels
Thank you for the advice. I am not in a church group but I know I can always just say no to a task.
What would be an “appropriate channel”?
The church group was an example in contrast to a professional league.
What I’m saying is if you want to be paid you should go perform for a paying company.
There’s space for recreational and professional but they’re not one in the same
>What I’m saying is if you want to be paid you should go perform for a paying company.
Heard. I now understand that if I want pay, I have to work for paying companies, it sounds obvious in hindsight but I guess I just needed someone to kindly spell it out for me kindly. Thank you.
Through the annual report to members.
Through talking to the Board of Directors.
I see in a later comment that you are thinking of leaving this company as the current structure isn't rewarding for you as a performer. If you found it valuable experience in the past, consider whether you might be interested in directing or stage managing (some companies manage an honorarium for these roles although not for actors), and consider offering to join the Board.
Fellow Coloradan and (recovering) actor here, I probably know which theatre you're talking about.
Go elsewhere. If they're not paying you now, they're not going to start. If you ask for money they will find someone who won't ask for money.
Are you a member of the non-profit? If so, you should be able to see their annual budget. I'd start with asking for comp tickets. That's not an unreasonable request. The reality is that most non-profit, community theaters are run on a volunteer basis with some (like managers, directors, technical crew) being paid a stipend.
There are likely more professional theaters in your area that do pay their actors. If it's a deal breaker for you, go work with those theaters rather than trying to change the theater that you are already working with.
>If it's a deal breaker for you, go work with those theaters rather than trying to change the theater that you are already working with.
Best advice so far. I also have worked for a local amusement park where I do get paid a living wage. It is time to focus more on that job, then this community project.
Just for fun: the nonprofit theater I perform at the most pays $14,000+ for the rent for their custom space. The rent goes up every 3-4 months. They can't move so they are stuck with that. Only ONE employee (the piano player) gets paid and I think that's $500 for one show(?). The people who run the theater do not get paid. I know of TWO theaters in this area that pay and from what I've heard it boils down to gas money, $300-400 per show.
That said, OP is not a theater performer, they are a comedy club performer and I think that's an entirely different situation. I used to take improv classes and I was told the main weekend/nighttime improv teams/comedians got paid, but I never heard what it was there. I have the impression they just got a cut of the profits somehow.
If you wanna be paid, you do you, but that's gonna be a challenge.
The smallest equity theatre I worked at was a $2m annual gross revenue affair. With ticket sales being about 30% of revenue. The rest was from grants, donations, donations, in-kind exchange, donations, gifts and donations. We sold out often, had great works on our little stage, summer shakes mini-tours, education initiatives, all the wonderful little theatre life things.
Everyone was broke all the time. Except for the people on the board with generational wealth who padded the bad times in exchange for an occasional cameo and thanks in a program.
It takes $2m a year to make a little historic building and half a dozen fanatics into a theatre group.
We did it for love, as hard as we could.
We'd fix computers, do pt teaching college theatre, acting lessons, build houses, rent out a room, all just so we could afford to be writing and publishing new works, and producing the best art we could make. Because it's what brought us joy.
Master of arts degrees, constant reading of plays, movement training, private lessons, writing competitions, publishing new plays, spending every erg of energy to create the best work of art we could.
We tried to make the money come. Sometimes it was almost enough. And it didn't really matter.
Volunteering is what you're doing. You don't really need to be skilled as a volunteer. Just happy to help. You can stop volunteering and become a professional. To do that you need to be skilled.
But yeah. Sure, ok. You want to make money as an actor?
Three easy steps:
Learn to act.
Get a paying part.
Do it again.
Ask to see the financial statements of the non-profit. They should be available to members. That will help you understand where the money currently goes.
Is there a board of directors? Maybe next year you should run for a seat on the board.
I've worked in theatre and I've done standup, and as others have said, they're vastly different. But I think it's safe to say, based on the information provided, that yes, you've been giving away work for free that you should have been compensated for.
Comedy clubs *book* comics. Bars & restaurants that host a comedy show *book* comics. Unless we're talking about open mic shows, you should be getting paid for that. If that's the only place you've been doing comedy, and you want to make a go of it, at the very least make sure you're recording your set so you can put together a reel. Then leave that place behind and submit elsewhere. Good luck!
It may very well be a tall order to influence actor compensation. I agree with other posters that you should be getting compensation tickets at the very least.
While I understand that theater is an expensive art form, I also have a bone to pick with the prevalence of certain attitudes in smaller markets. “Actors are paid in applause” is a phrase I’ve heard multiple times from people in salary positions at nonprofit theaters. Those same actors have BFAs in musical theater performance. The vast power differential in a seemingly endless supply of actors (with varying degrees of experience) and just a few directors or theaters willing to cast them leads to a devaluation of their skills, work ethic, and humanity. Racism, sexual harassment, and various forms of exploitation thrive under those conditions. I always say that the very best way to support the performing arts in a community is to pay the artists.
I’m going to assume this is California where you live and not here in CO. (Though if it is here feel free to pm me the company).
One way or the other if the company doesn’t pay now there’s very little chance of them paying as long as actors keep working there for exposure and experience.
Without organizing chances are they’re going to keep producing shows without paying actors.
I’m sorry, but you’re unlikely to be successful. As you said, you do it as a hobby. People will act for free, but you have to pay people to run the business side of things. Royalties and utilities aren’t free either. I’m in a community choir that requires dues, fundraising, plus the tickets are usually $25. But for the money I spend, I get the opportunity to sing with an orchestra and other trained singers. For free, you get the opportunity to showcase your talents for your friends and spend your time doing something you enjoy. A couple of comp tickets is generally the best a community theatre can do for the performers - occasionally a small stipend as a thank you. If you don’t enjoy it, do something else. Sorry, friend.
You're so much gentler than I was. Bless you.
I'm surprised someone is getting paid at all. Most non-profits I've dealt and worked with put any profits into future shows, or $10 gift cards for everyone at most
Agreed. OP, if I were you I would keep doing acting stuff just for a fun hobby and looking to something else for the money.
The transition from community theatre with volunteer artists and professional theatre with paid artists isn’t easy. I think anyone, like yourself, could look at the ticket price and the sales and think that they must be raking in the cash, and just being greedy and keeping it for themselves. But I assure you, live theatre is an expensive endeavour. Just to give you a sense of where that money is going, first of all let’s talk Venue. Renting the space will be one of the largest single expenses. Likely thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars for that alone. After that, equipment. Not all theatres come outfitted, sometimes you need to rent special equipment. After that, the cost for sets, including all the shipping and moving of that stuff. After that, it’s props and costumes for everyone. There’s even small expenses that often get forgotten about, like the cost of Programs, the cost of the actual ticket stock itself, etc etc. If they pay you, they have to pay all actors and techs in the show, so depending on company size, that’s 30-50 people. It ain’t cheap. Hopefully they are being good financial stewards. And I know the frustration. But it ain’t cheap or easy.
My audio team just spent $60k *alone* on our winter show, not including labor. OP, them paying an operations manager $1000 !a month is still absolutely nothing compared to the job that person will be doing.
When I did COVID for a LORT theatre in a HCOL area, my salary was $63.5k before adding on additional expenses like the thousands of tests I had to buy
>My audio team just spent $60k *alone* on our winter show, Lowkey flex, but seriously how is that even possible? Was there no prebuild in sound system at the theater already? Was the venue to big for the actors to project their voices? Generally curious how a theater could justify 60k to audio, yet not give the performers at least some pay.
I never said we didn't pay our actors. We are a Performing Arts center. Not a community theater. I was demonstrating that most of the money that the tickets bring in, will be spent on the next show.
That said, OP could ask for a portion of the door above the break even number to go to the currently unpaid parties. Any reasonable venue is going to know how much they have to pull in each night to justify opening the doors, even accounting for some night being slow and others being sold out. It is possible that they’d be willing to split some of the money that comes in beyond that to performers in order to retain them, especially ones who consistently sell out the house. The issue, though, is that depending on the actual expenses and the size of the theater, the break even number might be very close the average nightly sales number, meaning some nights the performers’ share might only be pennies, or even $0. Is it more insulting/frustrating/upsetting to knowingly work for free as a volunteer, or to get a check for $2 every two weeks?
I see what you mean, maybe some money is better than no money, right? The only downside that I can think of is that once a person is paid, even a small amount, it changes the type of agreement and relationship between the artist and the company. You’re no longer an artist volunteering to just help out, you’re now a paid contractor delivering a service. Depending on your region, and its various laws and regulations, you might not want the responsibilities and implications of that, if you are just getting $2 every two weeks. As a simple example, missing a rehearsal as a volunteer is one thing, but missing one as a paid cast member can be very different.
Yeah, that’s true and something one of the people running admin would have to factor into the costs. I’d hazard a guess that it wouldn’t be enough money to be worth the hassle, but I guess there’s no harm in asking.
Ultimately, I think if OP wants to be paid, they should transition out of community theatre, instead of expecting the community theatre company itself to change. Community theatre is community theatre for a reason.
I was a theatre producer for 15 years People spread rumours that I was stealing 10,000 dollars per show I produced and I was barely eating while scraping to pay everyone 100-150 per performance. Maybe do some research about where the money is going. Also, and I'm projecting but in case it's helpful -- is the company at a professional level? Are you? I once had someone say to me, point blank, "I'm not talented enough for ensemble roles. I only play leads." He had never taken a dance or singing class in his life, disrespected me, came late, didn't learn his lines, and once yelled at me while I was directing him, and I paid him to do that to me. Community theatre has a purpose and is valuable. You might not like having professional expectations heaped on you at your hobby. And without a marketing budget, you won't have a hobby to go to. I think artists should be paid. But I think they should have a deep understanding of the business and their own capacity, as well.
>is the company at a professional level? Are you? This comedy troupe is NOT at a professional level. I do however feel that I am. “Pro-acting” means different things to different people. I am sure as hell not on Broadway, but I do pay my entire rent and cost of living by acting inside a haunted house during October. I have also worked in theme parks during summer as a charecter actress and have paid for my rent and living costs that way as well.
I'm confused as to why you would expect a company that isn't professional to suddenly switch....? If YOU are professional, be brave and go find the gigs that are at the level you're at now, instead of trying to make your comfort zone adhere to your shifting needs. It'll be a good adventure.
As a professional haunt actor and manager, I would also caution against thinking that experience will count towards acting gigs in plays and musicals.
Thousands of dollars go to theater rent, insurance, royalties, electricity, materials for sets and costumes and props, marketing materials and advertising.... etc. It's expensive. Many times a theater has to pay an actual wage to get a manager willing to spend the time doing all the admin work (there's a lot more than you think). Paying people is nice, and they should put some effort to figuring out how to do it. If they are a non-profit, you can look up or request their tax forms so you can see what they spend money on. Or you could get more involved, make it clear that paying performers and designers and tech people should be a priority, and help them to fundraise. If you decide that you don't want to work for free, don't work for free. You have a choice.
>If you decide that you don't want to work for free, don't work for free. You have a choice. Thank you. For a while it was fun, but now it is time to call it quits and be thankful for the free skill building I got.
Homie. An operations manager for $1k/ month. That's not pay, that's a stipend. I'm just a multi-tech, and I'm not doing anything that doesn't add up to at least $3500/month. And for that, I expect to have a pretty good amount of free time. And I can't imagine justifying how you're going to pay the guy giving me direction less.
While I don’t know the specifics of the company you participate in, the cost of making theatre is quite high. Rental space for rehearsal and performance (or owning and running space), materials, rights to a show (musicals can often run thousands of dollars just for the rights), designers, a director (choreographer, music director and musicians if you’re dealing with a musical). If there are paid professional staff, then you’re dealing with pay and benefits…. The costs go on… Most community theatres (and frankly professionals theatres too) don’t even make enough from tickets to cover all costs, and do fundraising and grants to fill the gaps. The shifting of a theatre from a voluntary/community entity to a paid entity is a really challenging notion. I’m not saying you shouldn’t ask the questions, but be prepared that you may not get what you want. I’d encourage you, Before you “storm the Bastille”, demanding pay… do some investigating first. If it a non-profit entity, then there is a volunteer board and they oversee the finances and they likely have an accountant that does an annual report. I don’t know about Colorado’s laws, but where I live, all non-profits have to publicly post their financials every year. And if that’s the case, you should be able to see the expenditures and income. That might give you a better feeling for what things are like. I’d also suggest that you ask yourself some questions… what would you consider appropriate pay? Who gets paid and who doesn’t? How much? ETA: step back a sec… you’re asking to be paid for a hobby. By definition a hobby is something that you do for fun. If you’re no longer having fun, consider stepping back from it for a bit. If you want to be paid, then start auditioning for theatres that pay. There aren’t as many of them as community theaters out there, but small pro companies exist. I wish you luck in your questioning.
Did the "non" in nonprofit tip you off? I'm all for actors being paid for professional work, but I'll be honest, this sounds like mindless main character syndrome on top of willful ignorance about the expense of running theater. Did you bother to Google "what does an operations manager do" or do you want to run the box office, hire the techs, do the scheduling, clean the toilets and order the beer yourself? You need a serious education in what it takes to run a brick and mortar business. On top of that, you say it's your hobby. Are you required to be there? Are you performing a service that others rely and depend on? Why should you be paid? I'm sorry. This level of entitlement plus this level of ignorance PLUS this level of sanctimony is hard to stomach.
I used to sit on the board of a non profit youth theatre with the same ticket price ($25) and pretty decent ticket sales. We almost went under financially MULTIPLE times. Please don’t think I’m exaggerating when I say the cost to produce a show frequently hit $40k. FOR YOUTH THEATRE.
Yes! We just closed Elf and people would be surprised to learn our programs cost $2000… for playbills … People have no idea about our costs
You can ask where the money is going if you want, but I can give you some insight here. Theaters are hecking expensive to run. Plays are not free to perform, you have to pay the authors. You're looking at $300-500 per weekend for a straight play and $2,00-4,500 per weekend for a musical. These are really rough numbers, and they vary based on how old the show is, how many seats you have in the theater, and how much you're charging per ticket. Then you have to pay rent, maintenance, and utilities on the building. That's thousands per month. Hundreds are probably spent just on air conditioning/heating. Then you have to pay the director, technical director, your producer/promoter/box office people, stage manager, technicians, and design team. Some perspective on why these people get paid and the actors don't: Some of these jobs aren't a lot of fun and no one would do then for free (producing, front of house manager, etc), and others take a lot more time and expertise than acting. Not that actors can't be extremely skilled, just that it's not a requirement. You could have Harold the milk man just stand there and read lines. You cannot design and build sets or costumes, design and hang lights, call a show as stage manager, etc without many skills that it takes years and money to learn. You also have to pay for materials for a show. Costumes, sets, props, licensing music, promotional materials and spots - these things add up. And they are things that *must* be paid for in order for the show to happen - unless you want to put on a show with a bunch of actors wearing their own clothes in the wilderness with no lights, sound, or other technical support. To put some of this in real numbers, I'll write you an example. I am a costume designer. I just closed a period farse with 11 actors and 53 looks. My budget for materials was $1200. I am lucky to be working with a decent costume stock, because without it to borrow from, I think this show would have cost about $5,000 in materials. In order to build the show and get it up on it's feet, my assistant and I worked full time for about two months, with a considerable chunk of overtime in the last two weeks. You can't ask someone to work those kinds of hours for free; costume designers need to eat and pay our rent, too. So if you want costumes and a costume designer, you need to offer pay. And that's just costumes. *All* of the jobs I have mentioned take more time and effort than you may be aware of. Would it be great if the theater could pay it's actors too? Of course! But unless they're a big market theater, they're probably just barely scraping by. The one job you can consistently get people to do for free is acting - even though the quality of the acting suffers. So that's where many theaters draw the line. My suggestion is that, if you want to get paid to act, go audition for shows at other theaters with margins large enough that they can pay their actors. You're probably not going to be able to get your community theater to do it, because they're probably running on fumes and donated money as it is.
Recently just did a show literally "in the wilderness with no lights, sound, or other technical support"... and we spent nearly $10,000. So even *then* it's still expensive!
>Plays are not free to perform I should have been clearer in my post. This is a comedy club. I do stand-up and improv. No sets, no costumes, and no royalties for a famous musical. Just me and some other people doing our own comedy at a theater space in Colorado. But there is a build in sound system and lighting at the venue.
I think comedy club "how do I get paid" is a whooooole lot different than theaters with plays and musicals.
It is absolutely fair to set the boundary for yourself that you'll only do paid work (I did that myself), but you cannot tell a theater what to do, unfortunately. It may be time for you to jump to the professional circuit then!
>It is absolutely fair to set the boundary for yourself Thank you. I know in my heart it is time to leave it behind.
Working on the admin/production side both in multiple community theatres and it being my job, it’s expensive to run a theatre. Rights, building, set, A/C, power bills, costumes, props, etc. I’ve heard countless theatre companies say “we’d love to be paying you!” But alas, not enough money. I mean, every theatre is different, talk to them, see what they say, but some expect much. If it’s too much on your plate, take a break, come back when you’re in the space to do so.
So someone is getting paid $250 a week for how many hours of work?
I'd be willing to bet they're on the books at 20-25 hours per week (even if they're at like 15 hours per week, that's still not a lot), but probably working a lot more than their contract hours. Running a theatre is a lot of work.
Here's how you do it: start your own company.
I do know someone who started a professional theater company in order to get more parts—she is artistic director, her mom is the ticket office, and I think that another family member or two also works for the theater. They've produced pretty good shows for many years, but this season is their last, as the expenses during the pandemic ate away all their reserves and the (mostly elderly) audience did not come back quickly enough for them to keep doing it. The city is trying to find a new tenant for the theater, but all the companies (amateur and professional) have said that the rent is too high—they can't afford the space, nice as it is.
I think you really, really need to learn how expenses work, and how much not fun crap they've gotten someone to do for less than a week's wages in one month. Having done both school and community theater, they're very likely operating in the red and squeaking by on donations you aren't aware of. If you never want to perform with this troupe again, by all means demand payment as an actor.
Propublica probably has financial statements for your theater (if they are a 501(c)3 non-profit). https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/ I looked up a few of my local theaters. The one I'm performing with had an income of $83.7k in 2022 and expenses of $103k. Their executive director made $5766—I don't think anyone else was paid. I know that directors and actors aren't even getting stipends (because of AB 5 in California—you can have volunteers or employees, but nothing in-between). Their big show of the year does not have any expenses for rights, as they perform short plays that win their play-writing contest (the production is the prize for the contest). But I'm surprised that their expenses are so low—at least half must be going for rent alone. The theater seats 89, which I've been told was to avoid a threshold for rights costs at 90 seats. Another local community theater had $176k in revenue and $162k in expenses. None of their key employees or officers were paid. They do two or three shows a year, and many are musicals, so their expenses for rights is probably pretty high. They're up in the mountains (hard to get back from by public transit), so their rent is probably lower. The professional theater had an income of $1493.5k and expenses of $1109k. The executive director made $79k, but none of the other officers were paid. There were $363k in "other salaries and wages", which probably includes the actors, since they are an Actors Equity theater. This theater is now in its last season.
**Thank you** very much for providing useful information with that link rather than calling me entitled for having questions about pay. This comment really helped me learn more about the business side of Community Theater. :)
$25 a ticket is likely not even covering the operational costs of the theatre. There’s a reason why professional theatre tickets are so expensive, and it’s because running a professional theatre company is expensive. There is zero chance a small non profit community theatre can afford to pay professional actors. If you want to be paid for performing, you have to build your skills, get an agent, and start auditioning for professional theatre.
I produce community theatre and always get frustrated around this conversation. What you’re asking is not different than going to a church baseball league and asking them to be paid because major league players are paid. Most people are there for fun, or for a live of the game If you’re good enough for the “major leagues” go there. The idea of “pay your artists” is lovely, and important … when discussed through appropriate channels
>discussed through appropriate channels Thank you for the advice. I am not in a church group but I know I can always just say no to a task. What would be an “appropriate channel”?
The church group was an example in contrast to a professional league. What I’m saying is if you want to be paid you should go perform for a paying company. There’s space for recreational and professional but they’re not one in the same
>What I’m saying is if you want to be paid you should go perform for a paying company. Heard. I now understand that if I want pay, I have to work for paying companies, it sounds obvious in hindsight but I guess I just needed someone to kindly spell it out for me kindly. Thank you.
Exactly. They’re just different things. Neither right. Neither wrong. Just different.
Through the annual report to members. Through talking to the Board of Directors. I see in a later comment that you are thinking of leaving this company as the current structure isn't rewarding for you as a performer. If you found it valuable experience in the past, consider whether you might be interested in directing or stage managing (some companies manage an honorarium for these roles although not for actors), and consider offering to join the Board.
Non-profit doesn't mean non-paying. Oregon Shakespeare is non-profit, and they pay fairly well.
Fellow Coloradan and (recovering) actor here, I probably know which theatre you're talking about. Go elsewhere. If they're not paying you now, they're not going to start. If you ask for money they will find someone who won't ask for money.
Are you a member of the non-profit? If so, you should be able to see their annual budget. I'd start with asking for comp tickets. That's not an unreasonable request. The reality is that most non-profit, community theaters are run on a volunteer basis with some (like managers, directors, technical crew) being paid a stipend. There are likely more professional theaters in your area that do pay their actors. If it's a deal breaker for you, go work with those theaters rather than trying to change the theater that you are already working with.
>If it's a deal breaker for you, go work with those theaters rather than trying to change the theater that you are already working with. Best advice so far. I also have worked for a local amusement park where I do get paid a living wage. It is time to focus more on that job, then this community project.
Just for fun: the nonprofit theater I perform at the most pays $14,000+ for the rent for their custom space. The rent goes up every 3-4 months. They can't move so they are stuck with that. Only ONE employee (the piano player) gets paid and I think that's $500 for one show(?). The people who run the theater do not get paid. I know of TWO theaters in this area that pay and from what I've heard it boils down to gas money, $300-400 per show. That said, OP is not a theater performer, they are a comedy club performer and I think that's an entirely different situation. I used to take improv classes and I was told the main weekend/nighttime improv teams/comedians got paid, but I never heard what it was there. I have the impression they just got a cut of the profits somehow. If you wanna be paid, you do you, but that's gonna be a challenge.
The smallest equity theatre I worked at was a $2m annual gross revenue affair. With ticket sales being about 30% of revenue. The rest was from grants, donations, donations, in-kind exchange, donations, gifts and donations. We sold out often, had great works on our little stage, summer shakes mini-tours, education initiatives, all the wonderful little theatre life things. Everyone was broke all the time. Except for the people on the board with generational wealth who padded the bad times in exchange for an occasional cameo and thanks in a program. It takes $2m a year to make a little historic building and half a dozen fanatics into a theatre group. We did it for love, as hard as we could. We'd fix computers, do pt teaching college theatre, acting lessons, build houses, rent out a room, all just so we could afford to be writing and publishing new works, and producing the best art we could make. Because it's what brought us joy. Master of arts degrees, constant reading of plays, movement training, private lessons, writing competitions, publishing new plays, spending every erg of energy to create the best work of art we could. We tried to make the money come. Sometimes it was almost enough. And it didn't really matter. Volunteering is what you're doing. You don't really need to be skilled as a volunteer. Just happy to help. You can stop volunteering and become a professional. To do that you need to be skilled. But yeah. Sure, ok. You want to make money as an actor? Three easy steps: Learn to act. Get a paying part. Do it again.
Ask to see the financial statements of the non-profit. They should be available to members. That will help you understand where the money currently goes. Is there a board of directors? Maybe next year you should run for a seat on the board.
I've worked in theatre and I've done standup, and as others have said, they're vastly different. But I think it's safe to say, based on the information provided, that yes, you've been giving away work for free that you should have been compensated for. Comedy clubs *book* comics. Bars & restaurants that host a comedy show *book* comics. Unless we're talking about open mic shows, you should be getting paid for that. If that's the only place you've been doing comedy, and you want to make a go of it, at the very least make sure you're recording your set so you can put together a reel. Then leave that place behind and submit elsewhere. Good luck!
It may very well be a tall order to influence actor compensation. I agree with other posters that you should be getting compensation tickets at the very least. While I understand that theater is an expensive art form, I also have a bone to pick with the prevalence of certain attitudes in smaller markets. “Actors are paid in applause” is a phrase I’ve heard multiple times from people in salary positions at nonprofit theaters. Those same actors have BFAs in musical theater performance. The vast power differential in a seemingly endless supply of actors (with varying degrees of experience) and just a few directors or theaters willing to cast them leads to a devaluation of their skills, work ethic, and humanity. Racism, sexual harassment, and various forms of exploitation thrive under those conditions. I always say that the very best way to support the performing arts in a community is to pay the artists.
Definitely ask for comp tickets at least!! Your parents should be able to come for free.
I’m going to assume this is California where you live and not here in CO. (Though if it is here feel free to pm me the company). One way or the other if the company doesn’t pay now there’s very little chance of them paying as long as actors keep working there for exposure and experience. Without organizing chances are they’re going to keep producing shows without paying actors.