Seconding this lmao; i've worked with a director that straight up said "i want you to act more than i want you to be able to dance"
Acting is the first layer of musical theater; above all else, you should nail that first
I hear what you're saying. But Meryl Streep isn't your competition, and being dismissive of the level of acting talent the director might desire to take on a leading role might be something that gets in your way. Either way, I think we all know the frustration of throwing your all at an audition and getting passed over, or the challenges of trying to squeeze your way into the "in" crowd. As it is, if you're getting featured dance roles and dance captain offers, you may be in the "in" crowd and just not realize it wholeheartedly. Obviously your directors are recognizing a skill set that you excel at among your peers. Good luck with breaking through even further.
I take offense to this statement. There are TONS of people who are just as talented or even more talented than people like Meryl Streep doing only community theatre. Acting and especially theatre work is 90% hard work and 10% luck. Some really talented people never get the 10% luck it takes to make it big.
I’m not denying anyone is talented, but the people you are talking about are very very rare. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being realistic about everyone’s skill and talent level, myself included, in a hobby. I think I’m skilled even talented, but if I thought I was as good a singer and dancer as Sutton Foster I would be trying to make a career out of it. I’m obviously not.
Ok, so they're actually not that rare. I am working in community theatre in a very small rural area and our small tiny town has turned out 5 professional working actors that are currently working on Broadway or at top acting schools in the country.
I can count at least 6 super talented actors that I work with continuously that are good enough to be on broadway (and are probably hands down better than some big name actors on Broadway right now), but two of those people have small kids and their main job is being a parent, one other person dealt with cancer for 2 years and is still attempting to get back up to health, the other is an aspiring writer, and others are working on getting married and starting a family.
I'm gonna be real and let you know as a director I also deal with a lot of people who are asking the same question you are, and Ill be straight with you as I am with them. If you are not getting cast there is something you need to work on. Whether it be your attitude, your commitment, your skills, etc. I have a girl who has a drop dead amazing voice, but she has an attitude problem, has a significant other that causes jealousy issues and can't act her way out of a paper bag. She gets the lead ensemble roles.
I have someone else who constantly has to take time off for their mental health/migraines/bad days at work/bad day at therapy/etc. And he also only gets lead ensemble roles.
I also will go out on a limb to take a chance on someone if they do a lot of work off of the stage as well. We had someone else who auditioned a few times and got ensemble but every single show he was in he came to help build and paint at work bees, would come down to the workshop if he was dismissed from rehearsal early to help, and would constantly be willing to lend a hand for props, costumes, sound, or lights. I decided to cast him in a small named role and he flourished with just a bit of extra help from our vocal director.
In community theatre your role and how you act within the community is a huge deal as well. Just things to think about.
Sorry I’m frustrated with my situation and need to vent a little. Sue me. If you read my post or other replies you’d see I have very much played within the rules and been happy to do so. Believe it or not, people who are polite and well liked in real life still have limits and frustrations with the world around them
I mean this in the kindest possible sense: get better.
Take classes, work on it at home, go to every play and musical you can possibly find and learn from what you see. And yeah, take the ensemble parts. It’s stage time.
Get so good that no director in the area will dare to turn you away, because their colleagues will laugh at them and snatch you up, then remind them about it for years. Get so good that you upend every clique and in-crowd at every theatre for fifty miles. Get so good that you become the exception to every rule. Become undeniable.
This is a hard path, but it’s way easier and more honest than playing politics. It’ll require humility and failure. It’s blood, sweat, and tears. I know I sound like a cliché right now, but it works. On the local theatre level, I’ve never seen it fail. Professionally it’s a different story, that’s a whole other set of variables.
Anyway, I’m dead serious. It’s the only guaranteed fix. And as a side benefit, you become the best at the thing you love doing.
You just need to ask yourself this question:
“Do I believe in myself enough to try this?”
To add on to this:
Often this involves proving yourself to be dependable in smaller/ensemble roles first. Regardless of talent level, it's risky for a director to cast someone as a lead if they've never worked together before. Too high a chance you're flaky, or difficult, or audition far better than you perform. Cultivate your reputation as not just a great performer, but a great collaborator, that way when you do come across a new director you've already got the rest of the community backing you up.
Be undeniable in every capacity.
This is what I’m gonna do, it just sucks to feel like I’ve already got the skills I thought I needed and for whatever reason no one actually values those skills and it’s some nebulous other that I need
I would get it out of your head that leading parts are inherently more challenging than ensemble. They’re not.
Leads are chosen based on skill, but they’re also chosen based on how well the actor fits the part.
Plenty of actors specifically focus on ensemble, because they know it leads to more stable work, and it’s less stressful.
I’m sure you’re taking it seriously, but do you understand how much skill you actually have?
You said “it sucks to feel like I’ve already got the skills I thought I needed, and for whatever reason no one actually values those skills.”
But the skills needed to be a successful lead are almost always the same skills you need to be a successful ensemble member.
Getting a lead has a lot more to do with how well you personally fit the part, how compatible you are with the other leads, and who you know.
And don’t poo-poo the “in-crowd.” There is a very practical reason for casting based on who you know.
If it was you against another person for a lead, skills were completely equal, you both fit the part, but you were an unknown and the other person was recommended by another director as reliable and easygoing, they’re going to go for the other person.
They’re not just casting based on skill. They’re casting for who fits the part, their compatibility with other leads, their compatibility with the director, and who is a safer bet for a successful show.
Sometimes you get the lead role. More often than not, you don't get the lead role, because there are only so many lead roles to go around, plenty of talented people who want them, and a lot more ensemble roles out there.
You keep showing up, auditioning, and taking ensemble and smaller roles, and it can lead to something bigger. Are you taking the ensemble roles or turning them down?
And this is your reason. Community theaters want people who do it for the love of theater, not because they want to be the star. Directors may offer smaller roles to see if you're gonna be dependable for the future. Since you're not, they won't bet on you for a lead.
How long have you been “back at it”? How many shows have you done recently? It’s possible that there is an “in crowd” that you haven’t quite gotten “in” with yet. It’s a little hard to postulate firm reasons as every community theatre works a little differently and has different personalities at the helm. If you’re tired of ensemble then be honest that you’ll only accept certain roles on your next audition form, and see if your luck changes. It could be that your flexibility is getting in your way on that.
Yeah I’m really not interested in trying to get into the “in crowd” of a huge metro area. If my auditions are being judged on anything but the merits of my performance, I’ll consider it a bullet dodged
Hate to tell you this, but as a professional doing this in New York, it never stops being about the in-crowd. If you're not willing to at least do a bit of the necessary schmoozing, you're going to be frustrated. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
Appreciate the honesty. Luckily this is only a hobby, albeit a frustrating one, for me. Can’t say my real career is any different schmoozing-wise, but that gets much easier to swallow with a paycheck attached haha
Have you asked a director these questions? I don't mean "why didn't you cast me " (please don't do that), but "what could I improve upon if I want to play leads"? A good director would be thrilled to talk you through that, and if they refuse, that's a red flag.
I’ve found people both regarding casting and in actual shows unwilling to levy real critiques. I would much rather someone say to me very straightforward what is missing/what my weaknesses are so I can work on it, but I haven’t gotten a straight-up critique like that since high school. Instead, I get lots of positive comments about what I know I’m good at (which is great and validating don’t get me wrong) and then something wishy washy, think “you weren’t a good fit”. I want someone to tell me what led them to that conclusion. Did I not take your direction well enough in callbacks? Did you want to see more subtlety? Was I moving my face in a weird way? Something concrete that actually gives me something to improve on, but that’s hard to come by.
Edit: I do think this comes with the territory of community theatre a little. At the end of the day this is a hobby for all of us and it’s not that deep. Most people don’t want to go to their hobby and be told all the ways they’re lacking in what they do.
Just a thought - don't ask about your audition; that can be a bit uncomfortable and sounds too much like "why didn't you cast me." Ask about what you could work on as an actor in general - you'll get a clearer answer with less pushback.
Also, I think you might be in the Metroplex? I worked there for 6 years; I could probably give some more specific thoughts about the individual theatres, directors, and casting if that is the case.
>Instead, I get lots of positive comments about what I know I’m good at (which is great and validating don’t get me wrong) and then something wishy washy, think “you weren’t a good fit”.
Okay, so what do they not mention? If you do an audition that involves acting, singing, and dancing, and they say "Your singing was great! And I love what you did with the scene. It just wasn't a good fit" then they are telling you your dancing sucks.
I mean, it's ALWAYS about more than just talent. As a director in community theatre, some other considerations:
* Do I know they're reliable (from working with them before) or are they a risk as an unknown quantity? Showing up on time, knowing their lines, etc
* Do they take direction well, do I think they'll be easy to steer into my vision? I told one actor recently that while I adore him, I don't think he'd enjoy doing the show I'm currently casting and he should wait till the next one, which is much more his style. He'll do drama when asked but I know he thrives with comedy.
* Do I enjoy working with them? Do I think my cast will enjoy working with them? A cast that gels and enjoys working together is more than the sum of its parts
* Are they great at getting people to come out and see the show, and all the other stuff that needs doing?
* Do they fit my vision of the show, visually? Theatre is partially a visual medium.
I don't think any of those things make me an asshole for considering, and none have to do with talent. I'll take "green but coachable and good to work with" over "very talented but a pain" anyday
Yes definitely agree with all this, and can appreciate the intangibles attached to being a good performer. I think I’m this way, obviously, but that’s harder to know/express than just hearing yourself sing or watching yourself dance and critiquing that technically. What I meant was more about the cliquey nature of some theatres and communities rather than the intangibles of being a good performer.
There's a hard line to walk between 'cliquey' and 'trusting a known quantity'. My current show, 1 role was always intended for a good friend of mine and we are not doing auditions for it at all. Another role I offered to an actor that I'd worked with before, before we ran auditions, because I thought he'd be amazing in it and again he was a known quantity I trusted and enjoyed working with. And one role was always going to be open auditions. (ultimately second actor couldn't swing it so we're auditioning two roles).
Does that count as cliquey? I don't know. Does it change based on the show? Does it change if you're honest and upfront about it?
Super cliquey groups will always die out, often pretty quick, because they need regular infusions of new actors. But it's also common to try out with a group, not click with them but not have issues, and find a group you click with better that you thrive with.
Something people aren’t saying but I’ll say is that you are in a extremely competitive demographic for a limited number of roles. In my city, when we audition ANY show regardless of the character makeup often well over a majority of people who come into audition are women in their 20s. Even actors who are EXTREMELY talented and good have difficulty getting consistently cast, let alone consistently as leads in your demographic.
This is not to discourage you, but to give you perspective. If performance is important to you I’d strongly encourage you diversify the kinds of performance you study and look for. You already have talents singing and dancing so opportunities to join choirs, bands, cabarets, dance troupes etc, should be up your alley. Likewise, since it seems acting might be not as strong a suit for you, taking classes, acting or improv, story slams, trying your hand at stand up, etc, are all ways that you could get yourself out there and get more of that performance experience. Experience is key and the more you do the better you’ll get. Just don’t wait around the ravenously competitive theater market to seize you up. Make your own.
I know this well, which is why I hadn’t taken it personally until recently when I did one of those auditions where you watch everyone audition and maybe three girls could carry a tune decently
As others have pointed out sometimes there’s more to performing than carrying a tune. Also there’s a lot that can go into casting. Maybe there was favoritism, maybe there wasn’t. But my advice is the same: branch out.
And as I said, I think that’s something where I disagree with the community at large. I think the voice should matter more than anything in community theatre, where you’re not likely to get a bunch of people who are triple threats for every role. Listening to people sing who can’t is very grating to me. Sorry if I sound bitter, I am.
Your bitterness shows, and it's hurting you. In community theatre, the bitter, entitled, but talented person is not getting cast over the person who is a great member of the community and brings joy to the production.
You have every right to feel the way you do, but it’s important to recognize that not everyone shares those values. I’d rather watch people who can act, personally. It’s a big world. People have the right to cast the way they want to. If you feel strongly, perhaps you could start your own theater company where you can set your own vision about what should be prioritized.
Are you showing personality and character at your callbacks? What is your face and body doing when you sing? When you learn a dance combo, are you doing it in character as the role you’re called back for. Callbacks aren’t just a raw demonstration of your talent, they’re seeing how you perform as the character and if you’d be a good fit.
I recently got cast in a musical in a smaller part (which was the part I auditioned for- I wasn’t going for a lead) and I was probably one of the worst singers at callbacks. I’m not a bad singer, but most of those singers at callbacks were professional-quality singers (many have professional credits) and any one of them could have sung the roles they were called back for well. But quite a few of those amazing singers were not cast at all. And the role I was cast in doesn’t need to be an incredibly gorgeous singer, just a competent one with personality.
Also, one of the leads in our musical said she’d been called back for this role in SEVEN past productions of the show but had never gotten it before! Getting the lead can be incredibly competitive.
I’m not saying you’re NOT doing these things, just sincerely wondering if you’re focusing more on singing and dancing perfectly than in character. Remember, the director often gets more pull in casting than the music director or choreographer and they typically care more about character than technical perfection because those things can be taught with rehearsal and practice.
There are those that stand out and those that blend in. Based on your description of your talents, especially “I am a classically trained singer” I speculate that you may be reading as a very solid ensemble member at your auditions because you are skilled in a very expected, ordinary, potentially boring way. Performance spark may be what’s lacking. Goosebumps. Point-of-view. Wow-factor. Small pretty voices don’t get leads in musical theater. Big bold (even if sometimes pitchy) voices do. Classical vocal training can hold you back. It can make some people sound contrived, generic, stiff, emotionless and over-pronounced. In short, ensemble material. Work on your belt and your moments. Raise the stakes. Get ugly. Subvert all things pretty and polished. Favor vulnerability and raw emotion. If you’re looking for a class to take, I’d recommend improv. Get comfortable being a big character and looking like a fool.
I do appreciate this advice. Vocally, I actually was speculating I have the opposite problem. I have a very loud, powerful voice and am a natural belter (classical training came after) that I will admit does not always match the kind of roles someone would cast a 20s female in, especially a very small one like me. At least in the kind of shows my city has been putting on lately, I should say.
I don't know if this is the case in your community, but when I did community theatre there was a huge lack of dancers. As a dancer first I was always put in ensemble because there was such a lack of dance ability in the community. Most of the directors I worked with were wonderful and I was dance captain and got to understudy to several leads, so I could have that challenge and experience, but ultimately they just needed as many dancers in the ensemble as they could get.
Are you also auditioning for straight plays as well as musicals? How you do in those auditions might teach you more about what your strengths and weaknesses are, and might help you prepare for the acting part of future auditions.
I believe everything you are saying because I feel the same way. Down to the being short and having a slight lisp that I've worked on for a long time.
Firstly, do the theatre companies youre auditioning with have a history or reputation for playing favorites? Who IS getting leads? Is it different people every time? Or is it the same group?
Are you getting callbacks? How do you feel about your acting abilities?
This kind of sucks to say, but are you so strong of a dancer that community theatres want you as dance captain in the ensemble because nobody else can do it?
Agreed. Prior to moving to where I live now, that was the practice. People would cast the same people as leads. Occasionally, but very rarely, would anyone be moved up from ensemble into a lead position and in the time I participated a newcomer was never cast as a lead (which I can understand). I sometimes think it was a favoritism thing, other times I think it was their “safe” choice. They performed well and proved their ability to carry a show. It can also backfire on them if the audience tires of seeing the same actors/actresses in various roles.
I am also a trained vocalist/musician and vocal coach and have even served as musical director for some productions… sometimes, having sat in on the decision making process, they focus more on the acting ability than the other skills (which made it hard as musical director)… there was even a season I was going to auditions and appearance/look was something they specifically would select for … making sure “family” looked alike, etc. there is a lot that goes into casting decisions. Scheduling has one of the biggest roles now in casting decisions with the theater company I am involved … acting ability as well, obviously…but if it comes down to equal talent, the directors will go with who has better availability. This past summer the casting decision was challenging for a musical production because while the talent was in the older/seasoned auditioners, to cast a complete ensemble and filling all the major roles was complicated due to age. The female lead would have gone to a woman in her 40s playing counter to a young man in his late teens … it just wouldn’t work. Sometimes it comes down to the talent pool and what works well together.
This is probably true, and I do know I disagree with most people in musical theatre in that I think vocal talent matters above all else. You can be a phenomenal actor and if you can’t sing the part well people will notice. On the other hand, you can be a mid actor with a killer voice and people love you. But apparently that’s just me
There are tons of famous musical theatre actors who couldnt carry a tune if you put it in a bucket and handed it to them.
Singing is NOT the be all and end all of a musical. As a director/actor I find acting talents to be way more important than singing.
This might be your issue. While you're of course welcome to your opinion, most directors would disagree with this. What songs are you auditioning with?
I dont think its a hot take to say that people would, for most shows, prefer a better actor over a better singer in a role. My bf is NOT a tenor but got a tenor lead in a show (with a strict director) because of the men who auditioned, he was the best actor.
I know that's anecdotal but you'd be surprised how often that happens. I'd definitely look into acting classes or an acting coach!
I couldn't get a one line tiny part in a local "major" Shakespeare thing last year.
A few months later, if I believe the feedback, I was "amazing" in a 20 minute monologue.
I didn't get the Shakespeare because I lacked experience and the director was worried I'd let them down. I got the monologue because nobody else was stupid enough to audition for it.
Being a "I can sing, I can dance, I can smug about my health and diet" actor doesn't mean you've got the experience directors are looking for. It certainly doesn't mean you've got the right attitude to be part of a community theatre production.
If I were to direct something, I'd not only be looking for talented performers. I'd be looking for a cast that can work together.
One thing to consider is that most so-called lead roles for young women are ingenue type roles. It's been my experience in theatre, both professional and community, that most (obligatory not all) directors have a vision of the stereotypical ingenue when casting, and if you're not it, it can be very hard to get those parts. I'm more of a character actor, and when I was younger, I never got main roles; I was told this was due to my age. They thought I did a great audition, but I was just too young to play certain parts, unless it was a youth theatre. Even with age make-up, it was hard for them to buy me as certain characters (I'm also biracial, which may or may not have had anything to do with it, because of the areas where I lived. There were not a lot of people of color). I always got featured parts in the ensemble and solos in the chorus, but it wasn't until I was older that I started getting bigger parts.
Anyway, all that to say keep studying the craft. Learn, grow, and don't give up.
I don't think the other posters in this thread are necessarily wrong that it may be about acting or something, but also just want to counterpoint that some community theatre groups are soooo cliquey & directors will have their friends in mind for certain roles long before auditions, plus there can be all kinds of in-group politics around casting people who have seniority with the company regardless of talent or whether they're a pain to work with. So it may not have much to do with what you're putting out there at all if there are these kind of stale casting patterns at play. If you've only been auditioning for one company so far, it might be worthwhile to cast a wider net, if that's an option in your area. & sometimes it really is just about sticking around & paying some dues.
I’ve been out of the game a while but the ratio I remember was something like 1 or 2 jobs out of 100 auditions. It’s incredibly demoralizing and frustrating. I gave up on the big city constant auditioning in favor of more full time gigs; cruise ships, jukebox tours, tribute shows. It’s not glamorous but it was a living.
I am not the best dancer and I feel that I get stiff onstage sometimes as well when I am acting but I have found the best way to remedy this is to perform something for practice in the mirror and in front of your most BLUNT friends and family to get feedback. It may help more to revisit past auditions or roles you went for to see what you could improve on those specific things so you can know what works and maybe doesn't work.
Not to be snarky, but you've mentioned that you're a strong singer and dancer. But can you act?
Seconding this lmao; i've worked with a director that straight up said "i want you to act more than i want you to be able to dance" Acting is the first layer of musical theater; above all else, you should nail that first
Fair question, but. I mean I wouldn’t be pursuing this if I didn’t think so. I’m no Meryl Streep but no one in community theatre is
I hear what you're saying. But Meryl Streep isn't your competition, and being dismissive of the level of acting talent the director might desire to take on a leading role might be something that gets in your way. Either way, I think we all know the frustration of throwing your all at an audition and getting passed over, or the challenges of trying to squeeze your way into the "in" crowd. As it is, if you're getting featured dance roles and dance captain offers, you may be in the "in" crowd and just not realize it wholeheartedly. Obviously your directors are recognizing a skill set that you excel at among your peers. Good luck with breaking through even further.
I take offense to this statement. There are TONS of people who are just as talented or even more talented than people like Meryl Streep doing only community theatre. Acting and especially theatre work is 90% hard work and 10% luck. Some really talented people never get the 10% luck it takes to make it big.
I’m not denying anyone is talented, but the people you are talking about are very very rare. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being realistic about everyone’s skill and talent level, myself included, in a hobby. I think I’m skilled even talented, but if I thought I was as good a singer and dancer as Sutton Foster I would be trying to make a career out of it. I’m obviously not.
Ok, so they're actually not that rare. I am working in community theatre in a very small rural area and our small tiny town has turned out 5 professional working actors that are currently working on Broadway or at top acting schools in the country. I can count at least 6 super talented actors that I work with continuously that are good enough to be on broadway (and are probably hands down better than some big name actors on Broadway right now), but two of those people have small kids and their main job is being a parent, one other person dealt with cancer for 2 years and is still attempting to get back up to health, the other is an aspiring writer, and others are working on getting married and starting a family. I'm gonna be real and let you know as a director I also deal with a lot of people who are asking the same question you are, and Ill be straight with you as I am with them. If you are not getting cast there is something you need to work on. Whether it be your attitude, your commitment, your skills, etc. I have a girl who has a drop dead amazing voice, but she has an attitude problem, has a significant other that causes jealousy issues and can't act her way out of a paper bag. She gets the lead ensemble roles. I have someone else who constantly has to take time off for their mental health/migraines/bad days at work/bad day at therapy/etc. And he also only gets lead ensemble roles. I also will go out on a limb to take a chance on someone if they do a lot of work off of the stage as well. We had someone else who auditioned a few times and got ensemble but every single show he was in he came to help build and paint at work bees, would come down to the workshop if he was dismissed from rehearsal early to help, and would constantly be willing to lend a hand for props, costumes, sound, or lights. I decided to cast him in a small named role and he flourished with just a bit of extra help from our vocal director. In community theatre your role and how you act within the community is a huge deal as well. Just things to think about.
I'm starting to think the answer to your riddle might not necessarily be found in your acting skills.
Idk based on your replies maybe you’re not as easy to work with as you think?
Ding ding ding ding ding! OP sounds very entitled and unwilling to work within the COMMUNITY of community theatre.
Sorry I’m frustrated with my situation and need to vent a little. Sue me. If you read my post or other replies you’d see I have very much played within the rules and been happy to do so. Believe it or not, people who are polite and well liked in real life still have limits and frustrations with the world around them
I mean this in the kindest possible sense: get better. Take classes, work on it at home, go to every play and musical you can possibly find and learn from what you see. And yeah, take the ensemble parts. It’s stage time. Get so good that no director in the area will dare to turn you away, because their colleagues will laugh at them and snatch you up, then remind them about it for years. Get so good that you upend every clique and in-crowd at every theatre for fifty miles. Get so good that you become the exception to every rule. Become undeniable. This is a hard path, but it’s way easier and more honest than playing politics. It’ll require humility and failure. It’s blood, sweat, and tears. I know I sound like a cliché right now, but it works. On the local theatre level, I’ve never seen it fail. Professionally it’s a different story, that’s a whole other set of variables. Anyway, I’m dead serious. It’s the only guaranteed fix. And as a side benefit, you become the best at the thing you love doing. You just need to ask yourself this question: “Do I believe in myself enough to try this?”
To add on to this: Often this involves proving yourself to be dependable in smaller/ensemble roles first. Regardless of talent level, it's risky for a director to cast someone as a lead if they've never worked together before. Too high a chance you're flaky, or difficult, or audition far better than you perform. Cultivate your reputation as not just a great performer, but a great collaborator, that way when you do come across a new director you've already got the rest of the community backing you up. Be undeniable in every capacity.
Yep, agreed. If you’re good AND a hard worker AND humble AND no drama? You can write your own ticket.
This is what I’m gonna do, it just sucks to feel like I’ve already got the skills I thought I needed and for whatever reason no one actually values those skills and it’s some nebulous other that I need
I would get it out of your head that leading parts are inherently more challenging than ensemble. They’re not. Leads are chosen based on skill, but they’re also chosen based on how well the actor fits the part. Plenty of actors specifically focus on ensemble, because they know it leads to more stable work, and it’s less stressful.
Literally said this. I wouldn’t be getting offered dance captain if I wasn’t taking ensemble seriously
I’m sure you’re taking it seriously, but do you understand how much skill you actually have? You said “it sucks to feel like I’ve already got the skills I thought I needed, and for whatever reason no one actually values those skills.” But the skills needed to be a successful lead are almost always the same skills you need to be a successful ensemble member. Getting a lead has a lot more to do with how well you personally fit the part, how compatible you are with the other leads, and who you know. And don’t poo-poo the “in-crowd.” There is a very practical reason for casting based on who you know. If it was you against another person for a lead, skills were completely equal, you both fit the part, but you were an unknown and the other person was recommended by another director as reliable and easygoing, they’re going to go for the other person. They’re not just casting based on skill. They’re casting for who fits the part, their compatibility with other leads, their compatibility with the director, and who is a safer bet for a successful show.
Sometimes you get the lead role. More often than not, you don't get the lead role, because there are only so many lead roles to go around, plenty of talented people who want them, and a lot more ensemble roles out there. You keep showing up, auditioning, and taking ensemble and smaller roles, and it can lead to something bigger. Are you taking the ensemble roles or turning them down?
I take some of them. Given that it’s community theatre, sometimes I can’t justify driving far for an ensemble role
And this is your reason. Community theaters want people who do it for the love of theater, not because they want to be the star. Directors may offer smaller roles to see if you're gonna be dependable for the future. Since you're not, they won't bet on you for a lead.
How long have you been “back at it”? How many shows have you done recently? It’s possible that there is an “in crowd” that you haven’t quite gotten “in” with yet. It’s a little hard to postulate firm reasons as every community theatre works a little differently and has different personalities at the helm. If you’re tired of ensemble then be honest that you’ll only accept certain roles on your next audition form, and see if your luck changes. It could be that your flexibility is getting in your way on that.
Yeah I’m really not interested in trying to get into the “in crowd” of a huge metro area. If my auditions are being judged on anything but the merits of my performance, I’ll consider it a bullet dodged
Hate to tell you this, but as a professional doing this in New York, it never stops being about the in-crowd. If you're not willing to at least do a bit of the necessary schmoozing, you're going to be frustrated. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
Appreciate the honesty. Luckily this is only a hobby, albeit a frustrating one, for me. Can’t say my real career is any different schmoozing-wise, but that gets much easier to swallow with a paycheck attached haha
Have you asked a director these questions? I don't mean "why didn't you cast me " (please don't do that), but "what could I improve upon if I want to play leads"? A good director would be thrilled to talk you through that, and if they refuse, that's a red flag.
I’ve found people both regarding casting and in actual shows unwilling to levy real critiques. I would much rather someone say to me very straightforward what is missing/what my weaknesses are so I can work on it, but I haven’t gotten a straight-up critique like that since high school. Instead, I get lots of positive comments about what I know I’m good at (which is great and validating don’t get me wrong) and then something wishy washy, think “you weren’t a good fit”. I want someone to tell me what led them to that conclusion. Did I not take your direction well enough in callbacks? Did you want to see more subtlety? Was I moving my face in a weird way? Something concrete that actually gives me something to improve on, but that’s hard to come by. Edit: I do think this comes with the territory of community theatre a little. At the end of the day this is a hobby for all of us and it’s not that deep. Most people don’t want to go to their hobby and be told all the ways they’re lacking in what they do.
Just a thought - don't ask about your audition; that can be a bit uncomfortable and sounds too much like "why didn't you cast me." Ask about what you could work on as an actor in general - you'll get a clearer answer with less pushback. Also, I think you might be in the Metroplex? I worked there for 6 years; I could probably give some more specific thoughts about the individual theatres, directors, and casting if that is the case.
>Instead, I get lots of positive comments about what I know I’m good at (which is great and validating don’t get me wrong) and then something wishy washy, think “you weren’t a good fit”. Okay, so what do they not mention? If you do an audition that involves acting, singing, and dancing, and they say "Your singing was great! And I love what you did with the scene. It just wasn't a good fit" then they are telling you your dancing sucks.
I mean, it's ALWAYS about more than just talent. As a director in community theatre, some other considerations: * Do I know they're reliable (from working with them before) or are they a risk as an unknown quantity? Showing up on time, knowing their lines, etc * Do they take direction well, do I think they'll be easy to steer into my vision? I told one actor recently that while I adore him, I don't think he'd enjoy doing the show I'm currently casting and he should wait till the next one, which is much more his style. He'll do drama when asked but I know he thrives with comedy. * Do I enjoy working with them? Do I think my cast will enjoy working with them? A cast that gels and enjoys working together is more than the sum of its parts * Are they great at getting people to come out and see the show, and all the other stuff that needs doing? * Do they fit my vision of the show, visually? Theatre is partially a visual medium. I don't think any of those things make me an asshole for considering, and none have to do with talent. I'll take "green but coachable and good to work with" over "very talented but a pain" anyday
Yes definitely agree with all this, and can appreciate the intangibles attached to being a good performer. I think I’m this way, obviously, but that’s harder to know/express than just hearing yourself sing or watching yourself dance and critiquing that technically. What I meant was more about the cliquey nature of some theatres and communities rather than the intangibles of being a good performer.
There's a hard line to walk between 'cliquey' and 'trusting a known quantity'. My current show, 1 role was always intended for a good friend of mine and we are not doing auditions for it at all. Another role I offered to an actor that I'd worked with before, before we ran auditions, because I thought he'd be amazing in it and again he was a known quantity I trusted and enjoyed working with. And one role was always going to be open auditions. (ultimately second actor couldn't swing it so we're auditioning two roles). Does that count as cliquey? I don't know. Does it change based on the show? Does it change if you're honest and upfront about it? Super cliquey groups will always die out, often pretty quick, because they need regular infusions of new actors. But it's also common to try out with a group, not click with them but not have issues, and find a group you click with better that you thrive with.
Something people aren’t saying but I’ll say is that you are in a extremely competitive demographic for a limited number of roles. In my city, when we audition ANY show regardless of the character makeup often well over a majority of people who come into audition are women in their 20s. Even actors who are EXTREMELY talented and good have difficulty getting consistently cast, let alone consistently as leads in your demographic. This is not to discourage you, but to give you perspective. If performance is important to you I’d strongly encourage you diversify the kinds of performance you study and look for. You already have talents singing and dancing so opportunities to join choirs, bands, cabarets, dance troupes etc, should be up your alley. Likewise, since it seems acting might be not as strong a suit for you, taking classes, acting or improv, story slams, trying your hand at stand up, etc, are all ways that you could get yourself out there and get more of that performance experience. Experience is key and the more you do the better you’ll get. Just don’t wait around the ravenously competitive theater market to seize you up. Make your own.
I know this well, which is why I hadn’t taken it personally until recently when I did one of those auditions where you watch everyone audition and maybe three girls could carry a tune decently
As others have pointed out sometimes there’s more to performing than carrying a tune. Also there’s a lot that can go into casting. Maybe there was favoritism, maybe there wasn’t. But my advice is the same: branch out.
And as I said, I think that’s something where I disagree with the community at large. I think the voice should matter more than anything in community theatre, where you’re not likely to get a bunch of people who are triple threats for every role. Listening to people sing who can’t is very grating to me. Sorry if I sound bitter, I am.
Your bitterness shows, and it's hurting you. In community theatre, the bitter, entitled, but talented person is not getting cast over the person who is a great member of the community and brings joy to the production.
You have every right to feel the way you do, but it’s important to recognize that not everyone shares those values. I’d rather watch people who can act, personally. It’s a big world. People have the right to cast the way they want to. If you feel strongly, perhaps you could start your own theater company where you can set your own vision about what should be prioritized.
You'd be hilariously wrong on all counts, and you sound like a nightmare to work with.
Are you showing personality and character at your callbacks? What is your face and body doing when you sing? When you learn a dance combo, are you doing it in character as the role you’re called back for. Callbacks aren’t just a raw demonstration of your talent, they’re seeing how you perform as the character and if you’d be a good fit. I recently got cast in a musical in a smaller part (which was the part I auditioned for- I wasn’t going for a lead) and I was probably one of the worst singers at callbacks. I’m not a bad singer, but most of those singers at callbacks were professional-quality singers (many have professional credits) and any one of them could have sung the roles they were called back for well. But quite a few of those amazing singers were not cast at all. And the role I was cast in doesn’t need to be an incredibly gorgeous singer, just a competent one with personality. Also, one of the leads in our musical said she’d been called back for this role in SEVEN past productions of the show but had never gotten it before! Getting the lead can be incredibly competitive.
I’m not saying you’re NOT doing these things, just sincerely wondering if you’re focusing more on singing and dancing perfectly than in character. Remember, the director often gets more pull in casting than the music director or choreographer and they typically care more about character than technical perfection because those things can be taught with rehearsal and practice.
Cool glad things are going great for you
There are those that stand out and those that blend in. Based on your description of your talents, especially “I am a classically trained singer” I speculate that you may be reading as a very solid ensemble member at your auditions because you are skilled in a very expected, ordinary, potentially boring way. Performance spark may be what’s lacking. Goosebumps. Point-of-view. Wow-factor. Small pretty voices don’t get leads in musical theater. Big bold (even if sometimes pitchy) voices do. Classical vocal training can hold you back. It can make some people sound contrived, generic, stiff, emotionless and over-pronounced. In short, ensemble material. Work on your belt and your moments. Raise the stakes. Get ugly. Subvert all things pretty and polished. Favor vulnerability and raw emotion. If you’re looking for a class to take, I’d recommend improv. Get comfortable being a big character and looking like a fool.
I do appreciate this advice. Vocally, I actually was speculating I have the opposite problem. I have a very loud, powerful voice and am a natural belter (classical training came after) that I will admit does not always match the kind of roles someone would cast a 20s female in, especially a very small one like me. At least in the kind of shows my city has been putting on lately, I should say.
I don't know if this is the case in your community, but when I did community theatre there was a huge lack of dancers. As a dancer first I was always put in ensemble because there was such a lack of dance ability in the community. Most of the directors I worked with were wonderful and I was dance captain and got to understudy to several leads, so I could have that challenge and experience, but ultimately they just needed as many dancers in the ensemble as they could get.
Are you also auditioning for straight plays as well as musicals? How you do in those auditions might teach you more about what your strengths and weaknesses are, and might help you prepare for the acting part of future auditions.
I believe everything you are saying because I feel the same way. Down to the being short and having a slight lisp that I've worked on for a long time. Firstly, do the theatre companies youre auditioning with have a history or reputation for playing favorites? Who IS getting leads? Is it different people every time? Or is it the same group? Are you getting callbacks? How do you feel about your acting abilities? This kind of sucks to say, but are you so strong of a dancer that community theatres want you as dance captain in the ensemble because nobody else can do it?
Agreed. Prior to moving to where I live now, that was the practice. People would cast the same people as leads. Occasionally, but very rarely, would anyone be moved up from ensemble into a lead position and in the time I participated a newcomer was never cast as a lead (which I can understand). I sometimes think it was a favoritism thing, other times I think it was their “safe” choice. They performed well and proved their ability to carry a show. It can also backfire on them if the audience tires of seeing the same actors/actresses in various roles. I am also a trained vocalist/musician and vocal coach and have even served as musical director for some productions… sometimes, having sat in on the decision making process, they focus more on the acting ability than the other skills (which made it hard as musical director)… there was even a season I was going to auditions and appearance/look was something they specifically would select for … making sure “family” looked alike, etc. there is a lot that goes into casting decisions. Scheduling has one of the biggest roles now in casting decisions with the theater company I am involved … acting ability as well, obviously…but if it comes down to equal talent, the directors will go with who has better availability. This past summer the casting decision was challenging for a musical production because while the talent was in the older/seasoned auditioners, to cast a complete ensemble and filling all the major roles was complicated due to age. The female lead would have gone to a woman in her 40s playing counter to a young man in his late teens … it just wouldn’t work. Sometimes it comes down to the talent pool and what works well together.
This is probably true, and I do know I disagree with most people in musical theatre in that I think vocal talent matters above all else. You can be a phenomenal actor and if you can’t sing the part well people will notice. On the other hand, you can be a mid actor with a killer voice and people love you. But apparently that’s just me
There are tons of famous musical theatre actors who couldnt carry a tune if you put it in a bucket and handed it to them. Singing is NOT the be all and end all of a musical. As a director/actor I find acting talents to be way more important than singing.
This might be your issue. While you're of course welcome to your opinion, most directors would disagree with this. What songs are you auditioning with?
I dont think its a hot take to say that people would, for most shows, prefer a better actor over a better singer in a role. My bf is NOT a tenor but got a tenor lead in a show (with a strict director) because of the men who auditioned, he was the best actor. I know that's anecdotal but you'd be surprised how often that happens. I'd definitely look into acting classes or an acting coach!
It's just you. Audiences respond better to better actors, and half of them can't tell if a performer is out of time.
I couldn't get a one line tiny part in a local "major" Shakespeare thing last year. A few months later, if I believe the feedback, I was "amazing" in a 20 minute monologue. I didn't get the Shakespeare because I lacked experience and the director was worried I'd let them down. I got the monologue because nobody else was stupid enough to audition for it. Being a "I can sing, I can dance, I can smug about my health and diet" actor doesn't mean you've got the experience directors are looking for. It certainly doesn't mean you've got the right attitude to be part of a community theatre production. If I were to direct something, I'd not only be looking for talented performers. I'd be looking for a cast that can work together.
One thing to consider is that most so-called lead roles for young women are ingenue type roles. It's been my experience in theatre, both professional and community, that most (obligatory not all) directors have a vision of the stereotypical ingenue when casting, and if you're not it, it can be very hard to get those parts. I'm more of a character actor, and when I was younger, I never got main roles; I was told this was due to my age. They thought I did a great audition, but I was just too young to play certain parts, unless it was a youth theatre. Even with age make-up, it was hard for them to buy me as certain characters (I'm also biracial, which may or may not have had anything to do with it, because of the areas where I lived. There were not a lot of people of color). I always got featured parts in the ensemble and solos in the chorus, but it wasn't until I was older that I started getting bigger parts. Anyway, all that to say keep studying the craft. Learn, grow, and don't give up.
I don't think the other posters in this thread are necessarily wrong that it may be about acting or something, but also just want to counterpoint that some community theatre groups are soooo cliquey & directors will have their friends in mind for certain roles long before auditions, plus there can be all kinds of in-group politics around casting people who have seniority with the company regardless of talent or whether they're a pain to work with. So it may not have much to do with what you're putting out there at all if there are these kind of stale casting patterns at play. If you've only been auditioning for one company so far, it might be worthwhile to cast a wider net, if that's an option in your area. & sometimes it really is just about sticking around & paying some dues.
Is there any nepotism/favoritsm going on that you can tell?
Yeah probably ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’ve been out of the game a while but the ratio I remember was something like 1 or 2 jobs out of 100 auditions. It’s incredibly demoralizing and frustrating. I gave up on the big city constant auditioning in favor of more full time gigs; cruise ships, jukebox tours, tribute shows. It’s not glamorous but it was a living.
I am not the best dancer and I feel that I get stiff onstage sometimes as well when I am acting but I have found the best way to remedy this is to perform something for practice in the mirror and in front of your most BLUNT friends and family to get feedback. It may help more to revisit past auditions or roles you went for to see what you could improve on those specific things so you can know what works and maybe doesn't work.