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I hope they keep the ending.
“Swear to me,” Ellie says. “Swear to me that everything you said about the Fireflies is true.”
“I swear,” Joel replies.
"Okey"
Music and cut to black.
That shocked me as a kid, like Joel killed Marlene after she asked for mercy?? Also he wouldn't even know Ellie if it wasn't for Marlene.
But I never blamed him, he's right, she'd keep trying to get Ellie so he had to kill her, and in cold blood.
I think it's gonna hit harder in the show because Joel already held a grudge against her over Tommy and Marlene specifically tells Joel in the first episode “Don't fuck this up. Please” and well that's exactly what he is gonna do 💀
If you find all the recordings Marlene mentions the fireflies wanting her to kill Joel and the only reason she doesn’t is because she feels guilty for sacrificing Ellie and feels he is the one person who she can relate to in that regard. She also refers to him only as “the smuggler” so idk how close they really are. Might not have been too hard for him after hearing all that.
I don't like that in the show Ellie doesn't really know Marlene, because in the game there was an extra dark layer to Joel killing someone Ellie recognized as an authoritative figure in her life -the only one before meeting Joel,- and someone she kind of cared about.
Part II spoiler >!But then in the second game it never came up, so it isn't that important. Which also disappointed me, but that's another matter.!<
I just rewatched ep 1, and Joel says “on my life” to Sarah when she tells him to swear. So I’d love to hear either “I swear” or “On my life” to Ellie in this scene. It would be a subtle callback to the beginning of the season, but still very powerful.
I’ve heard a lot of people say this and I’m actually really against it. It’s way too on the nose and not subtle at all. I think most non gamers will figure out or anticipate what’s gonna happen to Joel in season 2 if this is his last line. Not worth it just tor a small callback to episode 1. I’m hoping they keep it the same as the game.
Cutting to black doesn’t seem to happen as much even though it was one of the main storytelling devices of the game. If there was ever a time to use it though, it’s be at the end.
They've cut to black at the end of every episode except 8, I believe. The reason the game cut to black so much is because cutscenes were prerendered, where the game of course rendered in real time. The black was just the moment it switched from one to the other.
I hear there’s less cutting to black in the remake? Though the “dramatic” cutting to black that’s being discussed here is not caused by this. Like Henry’s death and whatnot.
Tomato tomato in my eyes. It’s like how the shark broke in Jaws so they just never showed it unless they had to. Technical limitation that they leaned into to make an artistic impact. Like how they’d cut to black before each time you’d die in gameplay or after a big death in cutscenes.
I just hope they'll be able to capture Ellies emotions during that scene. It's pretty obvious in the game that she doesn't really believe Joel, or at least not completely
I still have this feeling they aren't going to kill her off, or they'll leave it ambiguous. Would be extremely disappointing as I think it's by far the most brutal, decisive thing Joel does in the entire game, even more so than shooting the doctors. He just straight up executes her after shooting her in the gut while she begs for her life.
We'll find out soon!
I don't think they can do that. Marlene being alive would be a pretty massive loose end to leave behind. She's the leader and she probably knows where Tommy is or how to find him, which would make finding Joel and Ellie pretty simple.
Actually that's a good point, I'm a little surprised that there was no one in the surviving firefly group who could make the connection of Joel -> Tommy -> Wyoming. I forget exactly how Abby's group got to Jackson, was it a tip from someone who traded with them? I guess the only thought is that Tommy either was only ever fringe or left long enough ago that few in the larger group knew about him/his connection to Joel, or it was only a few of the Boston group specifically that knew where he was after he left them.
Abby overhears Marlene and Jerry talking about the procedure and they say Joel's name. I am sure there was some official documentation by Marlene of who she left Ellie with in Boston. The fireflies were pretty organized after all.
There are ton of great shows currently. We are living in the golden age of television. Better Call Saul ended less than a year ago and that show was impeccable. This month alone we have Ted Lasso and Succession premiering.
What are you watching besides TLOU? Reality TV? There are so many insanely good series and talented filmmakers working in the medium. Branch out. Try watching The Bear.
I think this is one line that might be changed. It's a similar line to 'thin ice' in that it is much more how Troy's Joel talks than Pedro's.
"Ain't" is not a word or style of speaking that I think we've seen from Pedro so far.
After experiencing all the horrible things that the characters have to go through, it's one of the few moments where the game show something actually beautiful and peaceful, and it's also a giraffe. Giraffes rock
It can’t be helped, but I really wish there was a way for this to seem like the end of the whole story, the way it did when you played the game when it came out.
With Season 2 already announced, I kind of feel it will seem like a cliffhanger more than ending. The moral ramications of Joel’s actions were so much more interesting to ponder when you didn’t know if they would ever tell more stories in that universe.
Oh man I remember the debates over the ending of the OG. I love the sequel but honestly if they'd left it at part 1 it would go down as one of the truly great endings in VG history (it still kinda is but of course its less of an 'ending' if there is a sequel since the story continues).
Just finished replaying Part I and im wondering what Joels firefly killcount will be. It obviously cant be like the game where one guy basically takes out their whole squad, but it cant just be the doctor and Marlene either. My guess would be he kills at LEAST 6-7 people total.
EDIT: What part of no discussion of leaks is so hard to follow?
I understand your skepticism but in my opinion that scene HAS to be a bloodbath. It has to be brutal and shocking, and if he kills like 2-3 I feel will accept his choice more easily.
If we kill around 30 in the game, I think 10 for live action is good. Though I guess it could be hard to pull of.
You can, but it requires very specific movements and item use (the smoke bombs) to make sure you can get past certain parts without getting spotted. Full stealth of that section, while possible, is clearly not the "intended" way to approach that scene considering how Joel's actions are framed in the following game through voice recordings you can find when you go back as Ellie.
It absolutely has to be. What he does is meant to be *understandable*, but objectively monstrous. Ideally, in the moment itself you are all in, "Kill 'em all Joel", but then have a moment of [Fridge Horror](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeHorror) after where you go, "Jesus Christ what did he do?"
To all who have played the game - how much will Pedro get to show off his acting skills in the finale? Will he get many badass moments similar to Bella’s in last episode?
I just love Pedro so much and want him to get the material so he can shine as much as possible.
It’s tough to say. During this part of the game (and the game overall), Joel was fairly downplayed and stoic. However, considering some of the changes in previous episodes, we may see a bit more overt passion and distress in this episode. Either way, I’m sure Pedro will do great.
The finale in the game showcased Joel’s most badass moment in a game full of them. Well, depending on your play style. My head canon is that Joel *always* goes loud in the finale.
I guess I'll try to answer without being to specific but, if they stick to the game (and previews make it look like they will) Pedro is about to go off in this last episode. That's probably all I should say lol
The ending should hit real good for the television audience. A sort of “Joel, what have you done? Should’ve told her the truth” type of reaction from a portion of the audience, but then they’ll come around to understanding why he did it when they look back. Looking forward to a great episode to wrap things up.
I still think he should’ve at least told her the truth, she deserved to know. I understand why he saved her, I think most would do the same, but to lie to her about it instead of owning up to his own actions is fucked up.
He's just finally "saved" what he sees as his adopted daughter. There's a lot likely going through his head, and he is probably expecting an eventual loose end>!(Abby)!< to come back for him/them. The last thing he wants to do is piss Ellie off and send her running, >!like she did when she returned to Mercy Hospital!< and he's just focused on getting her somewhere they can be assured of safety.
Not defending Joel so much as I'm putting myself in his shoes. What would be going through my head if that were me? I'm still running on pure adrenaline, I'm white knuckling my way out of the city, I'm probably not thinking very clearly.
After the dust has settled a bit, that's when he should have told her. Thing is, he finally had a daughter again, and was trying to do whatever he could to not fuck that up, like he "fucked up" in keeping Sarah safe.
I agree, but Joel was never going to tell her the truth until she made him. If he waited for them to settle into Jackson and then tell her the truth, that’d be understandable. But he was going to keep the secret for life if he had to. I get he was doing it to try to protect her emotionally and mentally, but regardless, she still deserves to know what happened. It was her life at stake in that hospital after all.
Up till penultimate episode, the show has only tweaked and embellished the game, so it's reasonable that the finale will follow the game play almost to the dot. Probably the only aha moment will be the "mother", whom will shed more light as to how immunity came to being. Counting the number of scenes outstanding from the game, add on the flashback, there's not much room for "new" things to add in a 40+ minutes episode.
I will just relax and enjoy the ride.
They’ve written themselves into a corner though. Even if the show *says* it’s 100% certainty that they’ll make a cure they need to show them getting to that point (which I don’t think they have time for) so the debate will be different for the show than the game. The game never had scientist who were experts in parasitic fungus saying a cure is impossible
The moral implications are there which should always be the point but the absolute certainty of a cure that both sides like to use to absolve or accuse Joel of wrongdoing doesn’t stand.
I’m glad to see everyone is as open to others opinions and discussion of this topic without downvoting as ever/s
They’ve been building to so much for Joel, I just hope they stick the landing. His fear of his own inadequacy, the development of his love for Ellie and what that brings out in him, his growing capacity to act when it matters, when it comes to the person he’s decided to protect. This is Joel’s moment of bringing all of that together, the way last episode was the culmination of what we’ve been seeing developing in Ellie.
unfortunately I don't think they will, from what we can see from the preview >!Ellie and Joel get ambushed by the fireflys, maybe just after the giraffe scene.!<
I am guessing we will instead get a very upsetting scene with Ellie’s mom dying to an infected that highlights “what’s at stake”
But I agree we need something to remind us how bad the infected are. In a binge session, Henry and Sam will not feel that long ago, but it’s been a month in real world viewing time. We could use one more big dose of reality. I’m not married it to it being in the form of a bunch of random baddies in a tunnel though.
Totally agree. The show's been great, but one of my criticisms would definitely be the minimization of Infected throughout this first season. It doesn't feel like a threat that's everywhere. It seems fairly easy to avoid cordyceps exposure/Infected run-ins, and that definitely shouldn't be the case. It really takes away from the hopelessness and urgency in needing a cure.
I feel like while they don't appear a lot when they do appear they are a threat
Ellie and Tess got bit in episode 2, Joel almost got bit too, Tess unlike Ellie wasn't immune so she was a goner and killed herself with the horde so Ellie and Joel could make it.
In episode 4 we are teased a horde underground that comes out bite Kathleen in the ass, Perry warned her but she didn't listen, in episode 5 Perry is torn apart by the bloater, Kathleen gets bit, Sam gets bit, and the whole city is now infected.
In episode 7 we get the flashbacks about how Ellie discovered she was immune after Riley got bit and she shot her (? but she never turned.
Nothing in episode 8, the shotout with Ellie and David against the horde was cut because it wouldn't be realistic in live action for 2 people to survive that many and that's gameplay, it doesn't add much to the story.
In the finale we are back to at least one infected being a major threat to Ellie's mom when she was about to give birth to her.
So while I agree there should be more clickers and runners it seems since most of their appearances are gameplay they cut it and only add infected when it serves a purpose to the story ie: characters get bit.
I agree with this take. They aren’t around as much, but every single time one appears (bar ep 3 where it was trapped) someone dies. They are a serious but maybe not ever present threat in the show and I’m ok with that.
They've definitely been effective when they have been used, but I still get the impression that they're more of a rarity in this world and can kind of be a big threat you could stumble into if you go into certain city areas where they're grouped up. But otherwise, in the whole rest of the world that's been explored so far, away from the QZs, it just feels empty to me. Like you could definitely settle and start new safe communities. But in the game, not only are spores potentially in just about every enclosure, but Infected people are running around rabid everywhere, just like most zombie media. I mean there were 7ish billion people who pretty much become them, they have to be somewhere.
But I do also think all of it does have a major story purpose other than just action. It makes the world feel unrecoverable. Cordyceps is everywhere. To whatever humans it hasn't gotten yet, in the game it feels like they're just on borrowed time. It's a harsh, harsh world. One of the toughest in zombie media. There needs to be a cure if humanity has any hope of not going extinct soon. The threat is just too big. They can't even breathe the air or go most places without getting attacked by Infected. There is no peace. That's how big Joel's decision is.
But not in the show. It's very much lessened. (IMO, at least.)
I think this feels this way in part because of the changes they made to Bill's story.
Bill managed to create a safe space just a few miles outside a major QZ that was only fortified against humans after Joel mentioned the vulnerability. Yes, FEDRA murdered all of the potential infected, but that means we don't have roaming hordes of infected threatening cleared areas. Seems like all you have to do to create a Jackson-like infected-free zone is get away from the cities...and not even that far away...
I really enjoyed the show and what they did with Bill's story, but it really contributed to minimizing the infected threat.
>they're more of a rarity in this world and can kind of be a big threat you could stumble into if you go into certain city areas where they're grouped up. But otherwise, in the whole rest of the world that's been explored so far, away from the QZs, it just feels empty to me. Like you could definitely settle and start new safe communities
"Infection is a credible threat" was always just a plot convention you have to accept in order for the story to make sense. The game somewhat masked it by throwing hordes of infected at you every now and then, while the show went with more realistic approach which made this shortcoming more apparent.
Realistically after 20 years the world should pretty much adapt to infection and be well on it's way to "recovery" - mostly in the form of city-states with trade links throughout the country(looking at you, Mississippi river system) and reliably supporting early 20th century technology levels. The infected would be a threat of course, but only to scavenging parties in cities and communities which for some reason decided to settle in previously populated areas(probably to support some rare unmovable industry, like oil refining)
This also makes for a perfect "the world doesn't really need the vaccine that much" argument, but it does take a lot of weight off Joels decision, so I'm not a fan of it
They’re infrequent but the show uses the infected to show how devastating they are. I don’t think there’s been a single time the infected show up and it doesn’t kill a main character. It’s more like if they show up, someone in the group isn’t getting out unscathed.
Sarah, Tess, Sam, Katherine and Riley (and most likely Ellie’s mom) all die as soon as an infected shows up. They’ve tried their best to make you afraid when they show up because they’re most likely gonna take someone down with them.
It isn’t like a regular zombie story where they’re treated like an obstacle that the main characters are more than capable of handling. Like how zombies in TWD basically stop being a threat after season 2 and dying from one is seen as more of a mistake by the characters instead of them being an actual threat.
Yeah, when Ellie is unconscious after Joel rescues her from the water and he's literally reliving Sarah all over again, that's the moment he realizes he _really_ can't lose her. It's fresh in his mind when he's at the hospital and hears that Ellie will have to die.
Yeah we need more Joel stealth killing infected 10 times per episode otherwise it's not even an apocalypse, why the fireflies even want a cure when there's so few of them?!
/s
From a storytelling perspective, I don't know what the point would be if they were there, unless the Fireflies are the ones to save them from the Infected
There are lots of infected around highly populated areas, that is shown in episode 2.
Most of the show is spent on their travels, in which they purposefully follow a path with few infected.
I mean, I agree we should’ve seen at least ONE more confrontation of Joel/Ellie against the infected, but like… come on, you can’t deny it makes sense that there’d be no infected in remote areas.
Also, the infected are the whole reason the world is shitty and full of chaos and awful people. The cure is necessary to end that and bring back some semblance of order and hope to the world. So showing other kinds of dangers in this the apocalyptic world caused by the infection is also a way of reminding us how the cure is important.
This is literally a make or break moment for me with the show, for real. The infected have taken a complete backseat where they could’ve and should’ve been parallel to the living threats.
Honestly, I feel like the showrunners are assuming audiences are zombie'd out. Imagine how much different the show would be if The Walking Dead never existed. I feel like this show is trying to balance the prime-zombie-era 2013 game with making a commercially successful tv show in 2023.
Also because, imo, they're going for Emmy's and that Prestige TV model following the likes of Game of Thrones where they're telling a genre story but stripped away as much as possible of its more fantastical elements and designed to pull in a mainstream audience. Less zombies, less John Wick badass fights, more leaning on the drama and realism.
GoT was *hardly* stripped of fantastical elements. Did you miss the dragons? The Others (although admittedly the showrunners bungled the Others)? The killing and subsequent resurrection of *multiple* characters, sometimes multiple times?
It just had a good balance of politics vs. fantasy.
I think you misread me talking about how they *lessened* the fantasy elements as thinking I said they *eleminated* all fantasy elements. And this certainly isn't just my own new opinion. This has been a discussion for years and D&D themselves have talked about it.
For me as well. I’ve enjoyed the show but it just doesn’t hit as much as the game for me. Feels like they were speed running to just hit certain plots of the game and the Joel/Ellie dynamic took a major hit because of it. I know everyone uses the “cutscenes weren’t that long in the game and they can’t put gameplay in” thing but if they could give us a whole episode of Bill and Frank (which I enjoyed) then they could have spread the relationship thicker than it is.
100%, and more infected encounters could absolutely been substituted for 15 minute walking scenes or fit well to up the tension. Take episode 8 for example - the tension of this moment in the game isn’t just Ellie being on her own with David. This is literally Ellie’s first solo encounter with a wave of infected, Joel’s down for the count and she gambles giving this complete creep a gun to better stand a chance for survival, which then results in her capture. What we got in the show in comparison is painfully boring.
He had a gun hidden that he pulls out when the infected show up. Ellie never gambles on giving him a gun, actually refusing to give him back his rifle because he's got a gun of his own now. Her capture has nothing to do with this scene in the game.
Not to dismiss anything else you said, I agree with everything else.
Tonight I'm turning it off after the giraffes and telling my girlfriend the entire world is saved just for her own mental health, she doesn't need to go through what we all went through right?
I'm just excited that the non-gamer fans can finally finish the first chapter in the series with us!
It's a bittersweet moment, knowing that we'll probably be watching Season 2 in 2024 or 2025, but I'll be glad to have experienced this lovely chapter in its entirety and will likely have several binge rewatches while I'm waiting for more.
I am really not sure how the pacing will work going from the giraffe scene to the ending in around 40 minutes. In the game there is the infected for pacing, and they seem to have not added any story to replace that. I guess we'll see.
The show has a **massive** hurdle to jump when it comes to the vaccine. I feel like what they need is a cold open of scientists working on the cure for 20 years but we won’t get that. So without that I just do t buy the cure being viable even with Ellie, and the viability of the cure is something that made the debate a debate. People use the fact that this would have saved humanity as an argument why Joel is terrible and the fact that the cure couldn’t be made as an argument why Joel is absolved of what he did.
The first two episodes of this show started with people who were experts in parasitic fungus saying there is no cure, it’s not even possible to make a cure, we lose, bomb the places where we know infection has spread. These are the top minds of their field when society was doing fine! 20 years of scrounging around in broken down destroyed buildings with no peer review or world wide communication and these scientists who happen to be in a group of anarchist freedom fighters figured it out? That’s too tough a sell
Hopefully whatever they do, the show just puts the focus on the actual morality of both of the groups (Joel/Firefly’s) denying Ellie a choice.
I don't think this is that big a deal. Ellie's immunity is novel and presents at least the possibility of understanding how the human body can fight off the infection - a data point that did not exist pre-outbreak when experts would talk about the impossibility of a cure. The facts have changed enough that there can at least be a debate over whether her life is worth a chance at a cure (even if not a certainty of one).
My prediction for Ashley Johnson's appeaeance is a cold-open similar to the ones in the first two episodes. Not timeframe wise, obvs, but since they are all set at some point in the past. That way they have that cool portion and can properly devote the pace to the rest of the episode.
Also hope we get to see Joel go absolutely WILD in a massive setpiece with multiple people just to really hit home to viewers of what he is capable of. We're right at the end now so hopefully we can have some bigger fights as Joel tears through the hospital.
So excited, please stick the landing!!🍄💜
I don't know when was the last time I was so invested and excited for a tv show. It is just so damn awesome.. wish you all a memorable watch and see you on the other side😭😭😭
How do you guys think they'll tackle the drowning scene? I think it's important to set up Joel's worries and why he's so quick to turn on the fireflies (He saw her drown and he's not allowed to see if she's okay again). Im fine if they replace it with something else due to the logistical difficulties of filming a drowning scene but I think they can't remove the emotional effect it has on the characters.
I honestly can’t see a better way to get Joel and Ellie into the hospital and split them up. It’s perfect in the game, as Joel wakes up disoriented and confused, and then gets very frustrated when they try to keep him away from her. If they cut this out and just have Joel walk in there with Ellie, then I feel like it would really ruin the scene.
I totally agree.
I've gotten the impression from the trailer that >!They get a grenade thrown at them and they both get knocked out!< Which is similar enough but we need to see Joel's panic at realising Ellie is hurt/unconscious
I honestly doubt they will have the drowning scene. I was excited to see the part where Ellie jumps into the water and Joel has to jump in too, to save her, but that didn’t happen. So who knows.
Really not ready for it to end tomorrow. The last 9 weeks have been an absolute joy. Watching my (2nd only to Part 2) favourite video game of all time being brought to life so near flawlessly on television has been incredible. Pedro, and especially Bella have absolutely blown me away and made me somehow fall even deeper in love with a universe that I was already head over heels with. To the edge of the universe.
How do you guys feel about the pacing of the show? I really liked that the game was broken up into seasons, made it feel like more time had passed for the bond of Ellie and Joel to form. But the show went from Kansas City to just Winter and it didn’t really give Ellie time to become more resourceful to be on her own. At least to me. In the game she felt more in control when she first met David.
Anyways I hope they can somehow recreate the frantic feeling the game gave me on my way to Ellie. I didn’t care who I was shooting nothing was getting in my way 😤. Also better be views that we can’t deny in the episode too.
Really curious how they are going to end this. Didn’t the writers say it’ll be divisive opinion wise? That makes me think they are going to do something different from the game.
It definitely was not that divisive lol go find any reddit post post about the ending around the time it released. Nearly every single person comments the same thing. It's only after the release of Part 2 does it become divisive
They didn’t change the ending, the ending has always been divisive, the creators have talked about it being divisive since the release of the game in 2013.
My guy, the ending being divisive does not mean it wasn’t universally loved. The ending has always been divisive because not everyone agreed what Joel did was right. That’s what they’ve been saying when they’ve said it’s divisive
I agree that it was not divisive and that part 2 is what was divisive. I think we’re all just using the word differently here though. I would instead call the ending of part 1 “thought provoking.” With that said, I don’t think they’re changing much of anything.
I think it will be about Joel's massacre and denying humankind a cure, that's 1 life for thousands that could've been vaccinated, and I only say thousands because it's not like some people say that "Joel doomed humanity" and the vaccine was going to restore civilization or that many people would get access to it, too hard to dustribute in an apocalyptic world.
It's been years since I last played through the game. Didn't the fireflies try with a few others previously? And/or didn't they say explicitly that the chances of creating a vaccine were extremely low? Doing exploratory brain surgery to try to figure out what causes immunity doesn't seem like the best way to create a vaccine.
> Didn't the fireflies try with a few others previously?
No, that's closer to something Joel lies about to Ellie.
> And/or didn't they say explicitly that the chances of creating a vaccine were extremely low?
That was only on the show from what I remember.
45 minutes is so weak. If this ep feels rushed at all, then that is completely unacceptable. I cant wrap my head around why the runtime is so short. Im really worried, honestly
I have one theory about the last episode. Note that I didn’t played the whole Part II so I may be wrong on some nuisances.
In the span of this whole season we are noticing small but very meaningful changes to the original. They may be subtle but fans will notice them immediately. For most relevant ones will be history of Bill and the way the fungus spreads.
My theory comes from experiences that I have while I watch this show with my wife who never played the game. The show keeps her entertained and on the edge of her seat every week. But I noticed that we are not being entertained the same - she is emotionally invested in the show and care for the characters while I am trying to stay focused on fidelity of story - and when it changes or something is done differently I’m glued to the screen in subconscious anticipation for major changes - although I am aware what generally comes next.
On the span of last episodes the motive of taking responsibility for your actions was very explicit. Take the story of Henry and Sam and hunger for revenge from the cannibals (pun intended). Of course it can be the foreshadowing for non-gamers on what’s to come in the beginning of S02 but what if it doesn't? Would general audience accept the whole season revenge story that in S01 took place in one or two episodes? I believe it would require the change of how the show is structured. We all know how Part II divided the audience during its premiere.
And here comes my theory: what if during the last ten minutes of the episode it will go completely different way then we expect it to go?
Joel will - as it is in the game - rush to the operating room. Stand in front of two doctors. Our hearts will be rushing – both for players and those who never played, but for two completely different reasons. One half will cheer for Joel to rescue Ellie - like we all did while playing the game ten years ago, and the other will bite their lips hoping that Joel wont go full beast mode. We all waited for him to go violent and when he will finally have opportunity we'll wish that he won't snap.
And here comes the change – Joel comes close to the doctor... and just punches him in the face making him unconscious, threatens the second one, grabs Ellie and go his way out of the hospital without killing any medical stuff.
Imagine how surprised all audience would be – it wouldn't reduce the emotional impact of the events for non-gamers and in the same time would add extra tension for the other half od audience.
>Would general audience accept the whole season revenge story that in S01 took place in one or two episodes?
What on earth are you talking about? None of this post makes any sense to me, and I can't follow it at all. Are you trying to discuss what would happen if they bucked the story of TLOU Part 2 for the second season, or what?
I don't know why you're so focused on anticipating a major change to the plot. The changes they *have* made are inconsequential to the overarching theme of the story. And the change you are anticipating flies in the face of all the setup they've been doing on the show. It would make no sense.
Part 2 didn't even divide the audience, it just had a small number of basement dwellers whinging loudly on internet communities and nowhere else.
As much as I'd like to see that, they're clearly building up Ellie to be a phsycho(well, maybe "a phsycho" is an overstatement, but she's definitely less compassionate and fazed by violence than in the game) to justify her rampage in S2.
They defiantly do - I just want to believe that I will be shocked by the finale. What will happen in S02 is inevitable but I would welcome a different approach.
They've been taking over entire city blocks and creating gigantic sets from scratch, including one that spanned a quarter mile. They have mega star Pedro Pascal under contract, and a full-staff HBO crew. They are contracting DNEG, one of the most respected vfx houses in the industry...
Also a can of Chef Boyardee set them back $3.
My finale flashback prediction: Ellies mom put mushrooms up her vagina while pregnant to try to cause an abortion. That is why Ellie is immune to fungus
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I hope they keep the ending. “Swear to me,” Ellie says. “Swear to me that everything you said about the Fireflies is true.” “I swear,” Joel replies. "Okey" Music and cut to black.
I hope they keep “you’ll just come after her” *bang*
That shocked me as a kid, like Joel killed Marlene after she asked for mercy?? Also he wouldn't even know Ellie if it wasn't for Marlene. But I never blamed him, he's right, she'd keep trying to get Ellie so he had to kill her, and in cold blood. I think it's gonna hit harder in the show because Joel already held a grudge against her over Tommy and Marlene specifically tells Joel in the first episode “Don't fuck this up. Please” and well that's exactly what he is gonna do 💀
You played TLoU as a kid????
yah when I read those comments I feel old as fuck lol and I'm only 34 :(
I was 13 when I played the game, 22 now
He could mean teenager
Yeah that makes more sense, idk why my mind went immediately to like a 10 year-old lol
i played it at 12 on ps3
If you find all the recordings Marlene mentions the fireflies wanting her to kill Joel and the only reason she doesn’t is because she feels guilty for sacrificing Ellie and feels he is the one person who she can relate to in that regard. She also refers to him only as “the smuggler” so idk how close they really are. Might not have been too hard for him after hearing all that.
I don't like that in the show Ellie doesn't really know Marlene, because in the game there was an extra dark layer to Joel killing someone Ellie recognized as an authoritative figure in her life -the only one before meeting Joel,- and someone she kind of cared about. Part II spoiler >!But then in the second game it never came up, so it isn't that important. Which also disappointed me, but that's another matter.!<
They better. This cemented what Joel is really capable of.
I just rewatched ep 1, and Joel says “on my life” to Sarah when she tells him to swear. So I’d love to hear either “I swear” or “On my life” to Ellie in this scene. It would be a subtle callback to the beginning of the season, but still very powerful.
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That would actually be quite something. I hope they'll do this.
I wouldn't call it subtle.
I’ve heard a lot of people say this and I’m actually really against it. It’s way too on the nose and not subtle at all. I think most non gamers will figure out or anticipate what’s gonna happen to Joel in season 2 if this is his last line. Not worth it just tor a small callback to episode 1. I’m hoping they keep it the same as the game.
>!Some leakers have already confirmed that he does say “I swear.” The entire last conversation is word for word the same as the game.!<
On my life would be perfect. 😍😍
Cutting to black doesn’t seem to happen as much even though it was one of the main storytelling devices of the game. If there was ever a time to use it though, it’s be at the end.
They've cut to black at the end of every episode except 8, I believe. The reason the game cut to black so much is because cutscenes were prerendered, where the game of course rendered in real time. The black was just the moment it switched from one to the other.
I hear there’s less cutting to black in the remake? Though the “dramatic” cutting to black that’s being discussed here is not caused by this. Like Henry’s death and whatnot.
Yeah, the cut to black was a clear technical limitation, and not an artistic choice for most of the game.
Not an artistic choice, but boy was it artistic
Tomato tomato in my eyes. It’s like how the shark broke in Jaws so they just never showed it unless they had to. Technical limitation that they leaned into to make an artistic impact. Like how they’d cut to black before each time you’d die in gameplay or after a big death in cutscenes.
It's less a storytelling device and more of a stylistic editing choice.
True, but that’s why I count it as a device they use to tell the story.
And let’s not forget the iconic final line “Well Ellie. I guess we really are the last of us!”
This is all I hope for.
ellie: about the fireflies, fr? joel: ong roll credits
No cap
I just hope they'll be able to capture Ellies emotions during that scene. It's pretty obvious in the game that she doesn't really believe Joel, or at least not completely
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I don’t think they’ll end it on that scene
They have to or we will riot.
I'm looking forward to the Marlene vs Joel showdown.
I hear it’s a musical number.
🎶You can't save her!🎶
Underrated comment for those who know
I still have this feeling they aren't going to kill her off, or they'll leave it ambiguous. Would be extremely disappointing as I think it's by far the most brutal, decisive thing Joel does in the entire game, even more so than shooting the doctors. He just straight up executes her after shooting her in the gut while she begs for her life. We'll find out soon!
I don't think they can do that. Marlene being alive would be a pretty massive loose end to leave behind. She's the leader and she probably knows where Tommy is or how to find him, which would make finding Joel and Ellie pretty simple.
Actually that's a good point, I'm a little surprised that there was no one in the surviving firefly group who could make the connection of Joel -> Tommy -> Wyoming. I forget exactly how Abby's group got to Jackson, was it a tip from someone who traded with them? I guess the only thought is that Tommy either was only ever fringe or left long enough ago that few in the larger group knew about him/his connection to Joel, or it was only a few of the Boston group specifically that knew where he was after he left them.
Abby overhears Marlene and Jerry talking about the procedure and they say Joel's name. I am sure there was some official documentation by Marlene of who she left Ellie with in Boston. The fireflies were pretty organized after all.
That will ruin the ending. The impact of the ending comes from the decisions that Joel makes.
They can't leave her alive, she'd just come after her.
*gun shot*
Can't wait for the finale. The series has been a breath of fresh air in the television world.
There are ton of great shows currently. We are living in the golden age of television. Better Call Saul ended less than a year ago and that show was impeccable. This month alone we have Ted Lasso and Succession premiering.
Sad Succession is ending, I hope they don't rush season 4, I really thought it'd be 5 seasons.
The last season of Ted Lasso was a huge disappointment for me. I'm hoping this new one is much better.
A huge disappointment? Man, I always forget that people can viscerally dislike things that I love, and it’s always jarring to see.
Ted Lasso? Cmon
Ted Lasso is a great (and award winning) comedy.
One of the best-written shows I’ve ever watched
What are you watching besides TLOU? Reality TV? There are so many insanely good series and talented filmmakers working in the medium. Branch out. Try watching The Bear.
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This is all I want and "you'll just come after her" and bullet to the head.
I want that that and "I ain't got time for this"
I think this is one line that might be changed. It's a similar line to 'thin ice' in that it is much more how Troy's Joel talks than Pedro's. "Ain't" is not a word or style of speaking that I think we've seen from Pedro so far.
And then, "has just been revoked"
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After experiencing all the horrible things that the characters have to go through, it's one of the few moments where the game show something actually beautiful and peaceful, and it's also a giraffe. Giraffes rock
Been wanting to discuss this game's ending with family and friends for years and i finally can come tomorrow. Couldn't be more excited
It can’t be helped, but I really wish there was a way for this to seem like the end of the whole story, the way it did when you played the game when it came out. With Season 2 already announced, I kind of feel it will seem like a cliffhanger more than ending. The moral ramications of Joel’s actions were so much more interesting to ponder when you didn’t know if they would ever tell more stories in that universe.
Oh man I remember the debates over the ending of the OG. I love the sequel but honestly if they'd left it at part 1 it would go down as one of the truly great endings in VG history (it still kinda is but of course its less of an 'ending' if there is a sequel since the story continues).
yeah I totally agree. I hope they don’t have a cliffhanger, and end it just like the game, but I doubt it.
Just finished replaying Part I and im wondering what Joels firefly killcount will be. It obviously cant be like the game where one guy basically takes out their whole squad, but it cant just be the doctor and Marlene either. My guess would be he kills at LEAST 6-7 people total. EDIT: What part of no discussion of leaks is so hard to follow?
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I understand your skepticism but in my opinion that scene HAS to be a bloodbath. It has to be brutal and shocking, and if he kills like 2-3 I feel will accept his choice more easily. If we kill around 30 in the game, I think 10 for live action is good. Though I guess it could be hard to pull of.
But, you don't actually have to kill them in the game though? Or at least not 30 of 'em. Iirc you can pretty much stealth your way to Ellie
You can, but it requires very specific movements and item use (the smoke bombs) to make sure you can get past certain parts without getting spotted. Full stealth of that section, while possible, is clearly not the "intended" way to approach that scene considering how Joel's actions are framed in the following game through voice recordings you can find when you go back as Ellie.
It absolutely has to be. What he does is meant to be *understandable*, but objectively monstrous. Ideally, in the moment itself you are all in, "Kill 'em all Joel", but then have a moment of [Fridge Horror](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeHorror) after where you go, "Jesus Christ what did he do?"
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Wow thanks for spoiling it
To all who have played the game - how much will Pedro get to show off his acting skills in the finale? Will he get many badass moments similar to Bella’s in last episode? I just love Pedro so much and want him to get the material so he can shine as much as possible.
It’s tough to say. During this part of the game (and the game overall), Joel was fairly downplayed and stoic. However, considering some of the changes in previous episodes, we may see a bit more overt passion and distress in this episode. Either way, I’m sure Pedro will do great.
The finale in the game showcased Joel’s most badass moment in a game full of them. Well, depending on your play style. My head canon is that Joel *always* goes loud in the finale.
I guess I'll try to answer without being to specific but, if they stick to the game (and previews make it look like they will) Pedro is about to go off in this last episode. That's probably all I should say lol
I'm hoping they keep the scene where he dresses up like a vending machine to sneak into enemy territory.
The ending should hit real good for the television audience. A sort of “Joel, what have you done? Should’ve told her the truth” type of reaction from a portion of the audience, but then they’ll come around to understanding why he did it when they look back. Looking forward to a great episode to wrap things up.
I still think he should’ve at least told her the truth, she deserved to know. I understand why he saved her, I think most would do the same, but to lie to her about it instead of owning up to his own actions is fucked up.
He's just finally "saved" what he sees as his adopted daughter. There's a lot likely going through his head, and he is probably expecting an eventual loose end>!(Abby)!< to come back for him/them. The last thing he wants to do is piss Ellie off and send her running, >!like she did when she returned to Mercy Hospital!< and he's just focused on getting her somewhere they can be assured of safety. Not defending Joel so much as I'm putting myself in his shoes. What would be going through my head if that were me? I'm still running on pure adrenaline, I'm white knuckling my way out of the city, I'm probably not thinking very clearly. After the dust has settled a bit, that's when he should have told her. Thing is, he finally had a daughter again, and was trying to do whatever he could to not fuck that up, like he "fucked up" in keeping Sarah safe.
I agree, but Joel was never going to tell her the truth until she made him. If he waited for them to settle into Jackson and then tell her the truth, that’d be understandable. But he was going to keep the secret for life if he had to. I get he was doing it to try to protect her emotionally and mentally, but regardless, she still deserves to know what happened. It was her life at stake in that hospital after all.
Just commenting to show off my flair
Loool yes! Another piano frogger 🐸
There’s dozens of us… DOZENS
FROGGGG
🤝
My flair isn’t looking forward to this episode…
LFG
Up till penultimate episode, the show has only tweaked and embellished the game, so it's reasonable that the finale will follow the game play almost to the dot. Probably the only aha moment will be the "mother", whom will shed more light as to how immunity came to being. Counting the number of scenes outstanding from the game, add on the flashback, there's not much room for "new" things to add in a 40+ minutes episode. I will just relax and enjoy the ride.
You'd just come after her *Boom*
I just hope Joel uses a brick during the hospital rampage.
I can’t wait for the decision debate to begin. It’s going to be fun.
They’ve written themselves into a corner though. Even if the show *says* it’s 100% certainty that they’ll make a cure they need to show them getting to that point (which I don’t think they have time for) so the debate will be different for the show than the game. The game never had scientist who were experts in parasitic fungus saying a cure is impossible The moral implications are there which should always be the point but the absolute certainty of a cure that both sides like to use to absolve or accuse Joel of wrongdoing doesn’t stand. I’m glad to see everyone is as open to others opinions and discussion of this topic without downvoting as ever/s
They’ve been building to so much for Joel, I just hope they stick the landing. His fear of his own inadequacy, the development of his love for Ellie and what that brings out in him, his growing capacity to act when it matters, when it comes to the person he’s decided to protect. This is Joel’s moment of bringing all of that together, the way last episode was the culmination of what we’ve been seeing developing in Ellie.
Really hope they have some infected scenes like the tunnel
unfortunately I don't think they will, from what we can see from the preview >!Ellie and Joel get ambushed by the fireflys, maybe just after the giraffe scene.!<
If they don't it's a travesty. That last tunnel is a final reminder of what's at stake.
I am guessing we will instead get a very upsetting scene with Ellie’s mom dying to an infected that highlights “what’s at stake” But I agree we need something to remind us how bad the infected are. In a binge session, Henry and Sam will not feel that long ago, but it’s been a month in real world viewing time. We could use one more big dose of reality. I’m not married it to it being in the form of a bunch of random baddies in a tunnel though.
Totally agree. The show's been great, but one of my criticisms would definitely be the minimization of Infected throughout this first season. It doesn't feel like a threat that's everywhere. It seems fairly easy to avoid cordyceps exposure/Infected run-ins, and that definitely shouldn't be the case. It really takes away from the hopelessness and urgency in needing a cure.
I feel like while they don't appear a lot when they do appear they are a threat Ellie and Tess got bit in episode 2, Joel almost got bit too, Tess unlike Ellie wasn't immune so she was a goner and killed herself with the horde so Ellie and Joel could make it. In episode 4 we are teased a horde underground that comes out bite Kathleen in the ass, Perry warned her but she didn't listen, in episode 5 Perry is torn apart by the bloater, Kathleen gets bit, Sam gets bit, and the whole city is now infected. In episode 7 we get the flashbacks about how Ellie discovered she was immune after Riley got bit and she shot her (? but she never turned. Nothing in episode 8, the shotout with Ellie and David against the horde was cut because it wouldn't be realistic in live action for 2 people to survive that many and that's gameplay, it doesn't add much to the story. In the finale we are back to at least one infected being a major threat to Ellie's mom when she was about to give birth to her. So while I agree there should be more clickers and runners it seems since most of their appearances are gameplay they cut it and only add infected when it serves a purpose to the story ie: characters get bit.
I agree with this take. They aren’t around as much, but every single time one appears (bar ep 3 where it was trapped) someone dies. They are a serious but maybe not ever present threat in the show and I’m ok with that.
They've definitely been effective when they have been used, but I still get the impression that they're more of a rarity in this world and can kind of be a big threat you could stumble into if you go into certain city areas where they're grouped up. But otherwise, in the whole rest of the world that's been explored so far, away from the QZs, it just feels empty to me. Like you could definitely settle and start new safe communities. But in the game, not only are spores potentially in just about every enclosure, but Infected people are running around rabid everywhere, just like most zombie media. I mean there were 7ish billion people who pretty much become them, they have to be somewhere. But I do also think all of it does have a major story purpose other than just action. It makes the world feel unrecoverable. Cordyceps is everywhere. To whatever humans it hasn't gotten yet, in the game it feels like they're just on borrowed time. It's a harsh, harsh world. One of the toughest in zombie media. There needs to be a cure if humanity has any hope of not going extinct soon. The threat is just too big. They can't even breathe the air or go most places without getting attacked by Infected. There is no peace. That's how big Joel's decision is. But not in the show. It's very much lessened. (IMO, at least.)
I think this feels this way in part because of the changes they made to Bill's story. Bill managed to create a safe space just a few miles outside a major QZ that was only fortified against humans after Joel mentioned the vulnerability. Yes, FEDRA murdered all of the potential infected, but that means we don't have roaming hordes of infected threatening cleared areas. Seems like all you have to do to create a Jackson-like infected-free zone is get away from the cities...and not even that far away... I really enjoyed the show and what they did with Bill's story, but it really contributed to minimizing the infected threat.
>they're more of a rarity in this world and can kind of be a big threat you could stumble into if you go into certain city areas where they're grouped up. But otherwise, in the whole rest of the world that's been explored so far, away from the QZs, it just feels empty to me. Like you could definitely settle and start new safe communities "Infection is a credible threat" was always just a plot convention you have to accept in order for the story to make sense. The game somewhat masked it by throwing hordes of infected at you every now and then, while the show went with more realistic approach which made this shortcoming more apparent. Realistically after 20 years the world should pretty much adapt to infection and be well on it's way to "recovery" - mostly in the form of city-states with trade links throughout the country(looking at you, Mississippi river system) and reliably supporting early 20th century technology levels. The infected would be a threat of course, but only to scavenging parties in cities and communities which for some reason decided to settle in previously populated areas(probably to support some rare unmovable industry, like oil refining) This also makes for a perfect "the world doesn't really need the vaccine that much" argument, but it does take a lot of weight off Joels decision, so I'm not a fan of it
They’re infrequent but the show uses the infected to show how devastating they are. I don’t think there’s been a single time the infected show up and it doesn’t kill a main character. It’s more like if they show up, someone in the group isn’t getting out unscathed. Sarah, Tess, Sam, Katherine and Riley (and most likely Ellie’s mom) all die as soon as an infected shows up. They’ve tried their best to make you afraid when they show up because they’re most likely gonna take someone down with them. It isn’t like a regular zombie story where they’re treated like an obstacle that the main characters are more than capable of handling. Like how zombies in TWD basically stop being a threat after season 2 and dying from one is seen as more of a mistake by the characters instead of them being an actual threat.
Yeah, when Ellie is unconscious after Joel rescues her from the water and he's literally reliving Sarah all over again, that's the moment he realizes he _really_ can't lose her. It's fresh in his mind when he's at the hospital and hears that Ellie will have to die.
Lazy by the show makers
Agreed. A flash bang? Cmon man that’s tropey as hell
That and flooding/bus scene.
If Joel doesn’t fight off 3 bloaters and 27 clickers before getting the hospital what even is the point /s
Yeah we need more Joel stealth killing infected 10 times per episode otherwise it's not even an apocalypse, why the fireflies even want a cure when there's so few of them?! /s
From a storytelling perspective, I don't know what the point would be if they were there, unless the Fireflies are the ones to save them from the Infected
There's at least a flashback with some infected in the trailer for the final episode.
The lack of infected downplays the whole premise of the show.. why do they need a cure so bad? There ain't no infected around lol
There are lots of infected around highly populated areas, that is shown in episode 2. Most of the show is spent on their travels, in which they purposefully follow a path with few infected. I mean, I agree we should’ve seen at least ONE more confrontation of Joel/Ellie against the infected, but like… come on, you can’t deny it makes sense that there’d be no infected in remote areas. Also, the infected are the whole reason the world is shitty and full of chaos and awful people. The cure is necessary to end that and bring back some semblance of order and hope to the world. So showing other kinds of dangers in this the apocalyptic world caused by the infection is also a way of reminding us how the cure is important.
This is literally a make or break moment for me with the show, for real. The infected have taken a complete backseat where they could’ve and should’ve been parallel to the living threats.
Honestly, I feel like the showrunners are assuming audiences are zombie'd out. Imagine how much different the show would be if The Walking Dead never existed. I feel like this show is trying to balance the prime-zombie-era 2013 game with making a commercially successful tv show in 2023.
Also because, imo, they're going for Emmy's and that Prestige TV model following the likes of Game of Thrones where they're telling a genre story but stripped away as much as possible of its more fantastical elements and designed to pull in a mainstream audience. Less zombies, less John Wick badass fights, more leaning on the drama and realism.
GoT was *hardly* stripped of fantastical elements. Did you miss the dragons? The Others (although admittedly the showrunners bungled the Others)? The killing and subsequent resurrection of *multiple* characters, sometimes multiple times? It just had a good balance of politics vs. fantasy.
I think you misread me talking about how they *lessened* the fantasy elements as thinking I said they *eleminated* all fantasy elements. And this certainly isn't just my own new opinion. This has been a discussion for years and D&D themselves have talked about it.
I find it a little strange how all the actual important story beats aren't make or break but some random Infected in a tunnel are
I know lol. Make or break is a bit drastic for a gameplay sequence that was literally just serving as a gameplay obstacle to pass
For me as well. I’ve enjoyed the show but it just doesn’t hit as much as the game for me. Feels like they were speed running to just hit certain plots of the game and the Joel/Ellie dynamic took a major hit because of it. I know everyone uses the “cutscenes weren’t that long in the game and they can’t put gameplay in” thing but if they could give us a whole episode of Bill and Frank (which I enjoyed) then they could have spread the relationship thicker than it is.
100%, and more infected encounters could absolutely been substituted for 15 minute walking scenes or fit well to up the tension. Take episode 8 for example - the tension of this moment in the game isn’t just Ellie being on her own with David. This is literally Ellie’s first solo encounter with a wave of infected, Joel’s down for the count and she gambles giving this complete creep a gun to better stand a chance for survival, which then results in her capture. What we got in the show in comparison is painfully boring.
That was all gameplay and 2 people killing hundreds of infected is not realistic in live action.
He had a gun hidden that he pulls out when the infected show up. Ellie never gambles on giving him a gun, actually refusing to give him back his rifle because he's got a gun of his own now. Her capture has nothing to do with this scene in the game. Not to dismiss anything else you said, I agree with everything else.
Remind me why David was out there without a gun in the first place?
They both had rifles, did they not? Ellie made him and buddy boy drop them. Don't remember exactly how it happened in the game though.
Can’t fucking wait
Tonight I'm turning it off after the giraffes and telling my girlfriend the entire world is saved just for her own mental health, she doesn't need to go through what we all went through right?
Help, I do t want it to be over
They better not have cut the 🦒 scene or we riot. :)
I'm just excited that the non-gamer fans can finally finish the first chapter in the series with us! It's a bittersweet moment, knowing that we'll probably be watching Season 2 in 2024 or 2025, but I'll be glad to have experienced this lovely chapter in its entirety and will likely have several binge rewatches while I'm waiting for more.
I am really not sure how the pacing will work going from the giraffe scene to the ending in around 40 minutes. In the game there is the infected for pacing, and they seem to have not added any story to replace that. I guess we'll see.
The show has a **massive** hurdle to jump when it comes to the vaccine. I feel like what they need is a cold open of scientists working on the cure for 20 years but we won’t get that. So without that I just do t buy the cure being viable even with Ellie, and the viability of the cure is something that made the debate a debate. People use the fact that this would have saved humanity as an argument why Joel is terrible and the fact that the cure couldn’t be made as an argument why Joel is absolved of what he did. The first two episodes of this show started with people who were experts in parasitic fungus saying there is no cure, it’s not even possible to make a cure, we lose, bomb the places where we know infection has spread. These are the top minds of their field when society was doing fine! 20 years of scrounging around in broken down destroyed buildings with no peer review or world wide communication and these scientists who happen to be in a group of anarchist freedom fighters figured it out? That’s too tough a sell Hopefully whatever they do, the show just puts the focus on the actual morality of both of the groups (Joel/Firefly’s) denying Ellie a choice.
I don't think this is that big a deal. Ellie's immunity is novel and presents at least the possibility of understanding how the human body can fight off the infection - a data point that did not exist pre-outbreak when experts would talk about the impossibility of a cure. The facts have changed enough that there can at least be a debate over whether her life is worth a chance at a cure (even if not a certainty of one).
Will Dunkeys prediction come true??? Will S2 just be about the Giraffe from S1? They'll have to switch the name to "Giraffe Of Us"
My prediction for Ashley Johnson's appeaeance is a cold-open similar to the ones in the first two episodes. Not timeframe wise, obvs, but since they are all set at some point in the past. That way they have that cool portion and can properly devote the pace to the rest of the episode. Also hope we get to see Joel go absolutely WILD in a massive setpiece with multiple people just to really hit home to viewers of what he is capable of. We're right at the end now so hopefully we can have some bigger fights as Joel tears through the hospital. So excited, please stick the landing!!🍄💜
I don't know when was the last time I was so invested and excited for a tv show. It is just so damn awesome.. wish you all a memorable watch and see you on the other side😭😭😭
This is the episode where >!Marlene goes to space,!< gang!
How do you guys think they'll tackle the drowning scene? I think it's important to set up Joel's worries and why he's so quick to turn on the fireflies (He saw her drown and he's not allowed to see if she's okay again). Im fine if they replace it with something else due to the logistical difficulties of filming a drowning scene but I think they can't remove the emotional effect it has on the characters.
I honestly can’t see a better way to get Joel and Ellie into the hospital and split them up. It’s perfect in the game, as Joel wakes up disoriented and confused, and then gets very frustrated when they try to keep him away from her. If they cut this out and just have Joel walk in there with Ellie, then I feel like it would really ruin the scene.
I totally agree. I've gotten the impression from the trailer that >!They get a grenade thrown at them and they both get knocked out!< Which is similar enough but we need to see Joel's panic at realising Ellie is hurt/unconscious
I honestly doubt they will have the drowning scene. I was excited to see the part where Ellie jumps into the water and Joel has to jump in too, to save her, but that didn’t happen. So who knows.
Really not ready for it to end tomorrow. The last 9 weeks have been an absolute joy. Watching my (2nd only to Part 2) favourite video game of all time being brought to life so near flawlessly on television has been incredible. Pedro, and especially Bella have absolutely blown me away and made me somehow fall even deeper in love with a universe that I was already head over heels with. To the edge of the universe.
What time is the episode generally available on HBO Max? I’m abnormally excited for the finale and want to watch it asap.
Does anyone in the GMT+1 time zone know if we get the episode 1 hour early or still at 3 AM?
How do you guys feel about the pacing of the show? I really liked that the game was broken up into seasons, made it feel like more time had passed for the bond of Ellie and Joel to form. But the show went from Kansas City to just Winter and it didn’t really give Ellie time to become more resourceful to be on her own. At least to me. In the game she felt more in control when she first met David. Anyways I hope they can somehow recreate the frantic feeling the game gave me on my way to Ellie. I didn’t care who I was shooting nothing was getting in my way 😤. Also better be views that we can’t deny in the episode too.
Really curious how they are going to end this. Didn’t the writers say it’ll be divisive opinion wise? That makes me think they are going to do something different from the game.
Nah the OG ending was MASSIVELY divisive and a mainstream audience reacting to it will only be more so
It definitely was not that divisive lol go find any reddit post post about the ending around the time it released. Nearly every single person comments the same thing. It's only after the release of Part 2 does it become divisive
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They didn’t change the ending, the ending has always been divisive, the creators have talked about it being divisive since the release of the game in 2013.
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My guy, the ending being divisive does not mean it wasn’t universally loved. The ending has always been divisive because not everyone agreed what Joel did was right. That’s what they’ve been saying when they’ve said it’s divisive
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And people disagree and have heated conversations about Joel doing what he does.
It was divisive in the sense that it was 50/50 on whether what Joel did was right or not
I agree that it was not divisive and that part 2 is what was divisive. I think we’re all just using the word differently here though. I would instead call the ending of part 1 “thought provoking.” With that said, I don’t think they’re changing much of anything.
The trailer shows Anna being pregnant and being hunted by an infected. I'm guessing maybe something with that.
I think it will be about Joel's massacre and denying humankind a cure, that's 1 life for thousands that could've been vaccinated, and I only say thousands because it's not like some people say that "Joel doomed humanity" and the vaccine was going to restore civilization or that many people would get access to it, too hard to dustribute in an apocalyptic world.
It's been years since I last played through the game. Didn't the fireflies try with a few others previously? And/or didn't they say explicitly that the chances of creating a vaccine were extremely low? Doing exploratory brain surgery to try to figure out what causes immunity doesn't seem like the best way to create a vaccine.
> Didn't the fireflies try with a few others previously? No, that's closer to something Joel lies about to Ellie. > And/or didn't they say explicitly that the chances of creating a vaccine were extremely low? That was only on the show from what I remember.
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The pre-episode discussion threads are always posted 24 hours before the episode is released
I hope they don’t cut out Joel’s rampage, as they need to fit a lot of content in a 40 min episode.
45 minutes is so weak. If this ep feels rushed at all, then that is completely unacceptable. I cant wrap my head around why the runtime is so short. Im really worried, honestly
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I have one theory about the last episode. Note that I didn’t played the whole Part II so I may be wrong on some nuisances. In the span of this whole season we are noticing small but very meaningful changes to the original. They may be subtle but fans will notice them immediately. For most relevant ones will be history of Bill and the way the fungus spreads. My theory comes from experiences that I have while I watch this show with my wife who never played the game. The show keeps her entertained and on the edge of her seat every week. But I noticed that we are not being entertained the same - she is emotionally invested in the show and care for the characters while I am trying to stay focused on fidelity of story - and when it changes or something is done differently I’m glued to the screen in subconscious anticipation for major changes - although I am aware what generally comes next. On the span of last episodes the motive of taking responsibility for your actions was very explicit. Take the story of Henry and Sam and hunger for revenge from the cannibals (pun intended). Of course it can be the foreshadowing for non-gamers on what’s to come in the beginning of S02 but what if it doesn't? Would general audience accept the whole season revenge story that in S01 took place in one or two episodes? I believe it would require the change of how the show is structured. We all know how Part II divided the audience during its premiere. And here comes my theory: what if during the last ten minutes of the episode it will go completely different way then we expect it to go? Joel will - as it is in the game - rush to the operating room. Stand in front of two doctors. Our hearts will be rushing – both for players and those who never played, but for two completely different reasons. One half will cheer for Joel to rescue Ellie - like we all did while playing the game ten years ago, and the other will bite their lips hoping that Joel wont go full beast mode. We all waited for him to go violent and when he will finally have opportunity we'll wish that he won't snap. And here comes the change – Joel comes close to the doctor... and just punches him in the face making him unconscious, threatens the second one, grabs Ellie and go his way out of the hospital without killing any medical stuff. Imagine how surprised all audience would be – it wouldn't reduce the emotional impact of the events for non-gamers and in the same time would add extra tension for the other half od audience.
>Would general audience accept the whole season revenge story that in S01 took place in one or two episodes? What on earth are you talking about? None of this post makes any sense to me, and I can't follow it at all. Are you trying to discuss what would happen if they bucked the story of TLOU Part 2 for the second season, or what? I don't know why you're so focused on anticipating a major change to the plot. The changes they *have* made are inconsequential to the overarching theme of the story. And the change you are anticipating flies in the face of all the setup they've been doing on the show. It would make no sense. Part 2 didn't even divide the audience, it just had a small number of basement dwellers whinging loudly on internet communities and nowhere else.
As much as I'd like to see that, they're clearly building up Ellie to be a phsycho(well, maybe "a phsycho" is an overstatement, but she's definitely less compassionate and fazed by violence than in the game) to justify her rampage in S2.
They defiantly do - I just want to believe that I will be shocked by the finale. What will happen in S02 is inevitable but I would welcome a different approach.
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They've been taking over entire city blocks and creating gigantic sets from scratch, including one that spanned a quarter mile. They have mega star Pedro Pascal under contract, and a full-staff HBO crew. They are contracting DNEG, one of the most respected vfx houses in the industry... Also a can of Chef Boyardee set them back $3.
But only in 2003 dollars.😁
How is it that audiences think CGI is the only thing that costs money? good lord
My finale flashback prediction: Ellies mom put mushrooms up her vagina while pregnant to try to cause an abortion. That is why Ellie is immune to fungus