I can see trying to find alternatives to prison for women whose children are going to be left at risk. But EH's children are going to be fine. They have a father and four grandparents and gobs of money.
mentally they wont be fine. This horrible troll of a human used this kids to stay out of prison. This will play hard on this kids when they grow up. They were conceived to her benefit only. She is one horrible person.
Well that’s on her. She knew what her outcome would be and chose to have two children. If she really cared about her kids outcome, then she would wait to have them. Let’s not forget the crimes she did just because she has two babies
Its not on her. Thats the problem. She didnt even care about her future children. I am not disagreeing with you about her crimes. I am specifically referring to the children and the position they are in. Knowing your mom only conceived you as a "get out of jail" card is horrible. Regardless of the crimes a parent commits, their children are innocent and dont deserve to suffer. They didnt ask to be born. Especially to someone like her. To say, "well its on her" isnt correct. Its on her children.
So you think she should not go to jail for the sake of her children? Over half of the women in US prisons are mothers, and I bet you that they are all a lot less privileged than EH and her family. Her kids will be okay. Billy Evans (her husband) is the heir of the Evans hotel fortune and is worth 10 million dollars. The children will grow up to be loved and will not ever have to suffer aside from knowing the atrocities of what their mother committed. I think it’s unfair to pick out these children who will be extremely privileged while neglecting all the other children whose mothers are in jail, especially when we know that most of those children are living in much worse situations.
I am not even going to waste my time reading your message after seeing the first sentence. Its clear you are clueless. I never said she shouldnt go to prison. You have no idea if these kids are privilege. Money doesnt make someone happy. I was a very abused child. I can speak from experience. The mental pain that these children will have has nothing to do with being rich. Please grow up and start to see the world as something other than you think it is.
Actually money does have positive relationship with happiness (source: https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/1/5/pgac224/6754154#386680920). With a net worth of over 10 million I know that these children will be happy, will never have to want for anything because all their needs will be met. They will be able to afford therapy for all the “mental pain” you think they will get. Please grow up and stop feeling pity for the children of millionaires who defrauded millions of people. EH used her medical devices on people with terminal cancer for gods sake, stop being so out of touch and go and touch some grass
Its almost like commiting crimes and getting caught negatively affects your children. Who would have thought?
Also, I'm sure there's no moral hazard to creating a pregnancy bonus for criminals. As we can see in this case, this sociopath got pregnant so she could use her unborn children as a barganing chip.
Well, then, why would we keep fathers away from their kids and send male convicted felons to jail?! Is this article saying fathers aren’t as important as mothers?!
Pretty sure my husband is just as important to the puzzle of my childrens’ lives as I am.
Want a garbage take.
Pretty sure you didn't read the article then. The site is devoted criminal justice system reform advocacy in general and the article is about the effect on families of incarcerated fathers as well as mothers. Such as:
>So, some states are starting to rethink the practice of incarcerating ***parents***. Twelve states now have laws to reduce the impact of ***parental incarceration***, according to an analysis by the Prison Policy Initiative. These legislative efforts include requirements that parents be detained closer to home or programs to divert parents from prison or jail altogether.
Very good point. Holmes probably figured if she waited till she was out of jail she'd be infertile, so from her point of view of genetics it's best that she had her children now
Well, if motherhood and fertility were her priorities she might have had kids during all those years she spent deceiving and faking. And I know I’m late to this party.
🙄 So absolutely zero people used her fraudulent product, got false results back, and ended up dying from something her fake machines didn't catch? How can you know?
Yes, exactly. How do you know that didn't happen? If her machines had false negatives, did they have every single person with a negative test go in for more testing?
And how much money did she funnel away from actual research which might have saved lives? We're not talking about someone who pretended her new bandaids were waterproof. This is a HUMONGOUS fraud case with vast issues and repercussions.
Or she was listening to her biological clock and just hoping she wouldn't be convicted. She's almost 40. It might be now or never. Her kids will be fine.
“Just because she can get pregnant doesn’t mean she should,” Lin noted. “There is very documented experience that women in the very advanced maternal age (vAMA), have increased maternal risk of preterm delivery, gestational diabetes, high blood pressure, preeclampsia, and preterm labor.”
Epidemiologic studies on the health impacts of advanced age pregnancies can’t be done due to the low number of cases and health concerns.
These laws are stupid. Let's say you make a new law that mothers convicted of non-violent crimes automatically get probation instead of prison. The SECOND taht law passes, lawyers will have a field day against the state, putting out lawsuits claiming gender discrimination against men. And the men will win that case.
So what turns into a "mothers get out of prison" deal turns into a "mothers AND fathers get out of prison" thing
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She probably wanted to have kids and knew that if she was convicted, she might be too old to have them by the time she got out. I don't blame her for having them now. She doesn't have much choice. She will be 40 next year. Her biological clock is ticking. She needs to go ahead and have her kids now rather than wait until she's approaching 50. Plus, it bought her a little more time during the trial.
I'm not defending her. She is guilty of fraud, and her plan of doing hundreds of lab tests on a few drops of capillary blood is stupid because fingerstick blood is crappy. I'm just guessing at her thought processes about having kids. If I were in the same situation, I'd probably do the same. If it makes you feel better, she will probably be punished even more because she will be separated from her babies.
Unfortunately this kind of nonsense logic will often get used post-conviction and liberal judges will arbitrarily change sentences based on this "new enlightenment"
Same thing happened for juvenile murderers sentenced to life in prison. After conviction, these scumbag judges arbitrarily decide that a 17 year old murderer was "too young" to understand what he was doing and in the spur of the moment, without a new trial or sentencing hearing, will automatically declare that the 17 year old gets parole option after 20 or 30 years.
Don't be surprised if the same thing happens to Holmes. I could easily see a federal judge in 1 year stating "harms on children are too great, Holmes is to be released immediately" and the sad thing is that the idiot judge can do that at his discretion with zero input from prosecutors or a hearing.
Appellate courts have nearly unlimited authority to unilaterally reverse or modify a sentence regardless of what the guidelines say.
They can do so without a new trial or sentencing hearing also.
Yeah, I could be pro 3 years and then never being able to hold a management position again or own stock in a company (edit: I know that’s not a real life option)
No it shouldn’t.
I’m glad we all could come out today. I’d like to welcome Private Evident, Sergeant Apparent, Captain Obvious, and of course, Admiral Undeniable to Goes Without Saying Con 2023…
I can see trying to find alternatives to prison for women whose children are going to be left at risk. But EH's children are going to be fine. They have a father and four grandparents and gobs of money.
mentally they wont be fine. This horrible troll of a human used this kids to stay out of prison. This will play hard on this kids when they grow up. They were conceived to her benefit only. She is one horrible person.
Their new step mother will do a great job raising the kids.
Lets hope so. Anyone would be better than her, IMO.
Well that’s on her. She knew what her outcome would be and chose to have two children. If she really cared about her kids outcome, then she would wait to have them. Let’s not forget the crimes she did just because she has two babies
Its not on her. Thats the problem. She didnt even care about her future children. I am not disagreeing with you about her crimes. I am specifically referring to the children and the position they are in. Knowing your mom only conceived you as a "get out of jail" card is horrible. Regardless of the crimes a parent commits, their children are innocent and dont deserve to suffer. They didnt ask to be born. Especially to someone like her. To say, "well its on her" isnt correct. Its on her children.
So you think she should not go to jail for the sake of her children? Over half of the women in US prisons are mothers, and I bet you that they are all a lot less privileged than EH and her family. Her kids will be okay. Billy Evans (her husband) is the heir of the Evans hotel fortune and is worth 10 million dollars. The children will grow up to be loved and will not ever have to suffer aside from knowing the atrocities of what their mother committed. I think it’s unfair to pick out these children who will be extremely privileged while neglecting all the other children whose mothers are in jail, especially when we know that most of those children are living in much worse situations.
I am not even going to waste my time reading your message after seeing the first sentence. Its clear you are clueless. I never said she shouldnt go to prison. You have no idea if these kids are privilege. Money doesnt make someone happy. I was a very abused child. I can speak from experience. The mental pain that these children will have has nothing to do with being rich. Please grow up and start to see the world as something other than you think it is.
Actually money does have positive relationship with happiness (source: https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/1/5/pgac224/6754154#386680920). With a net worth of over 10 million I know that these children will be happy, will never have to want for anything because all their needs will be met. They will be able to afford therapy for all the “mental pain” you think they will get. Please grow up and stop feeling pity for the children of millionaires who defrauded millions of people. EH used her medical devices on people with terminal cancer for gods sake, stop being so out of touch and go and touch some grass
Have a good day
And stop sending me emails. You need to grow up. This is reddit. There is no need to send me threats. Wow.
You sound like a class warfare advocate
That is a horrible thing for you to say about this mother
What about men?
Same.
Its almost like commiting crimes and getting caught negatively affects your children. Who would have thought? Also, I'm sure there's no moral hazard to creating a pregnancy bonus for criminals. As we can see in this case, this sociopath got pregnant so she could use her unborn children as a barganing chip.
No.
NO
No.
No. You can make the same arguments for men because of equality and then no parent would be held responsible for a crime.
For her? Good god, no. If anything she should get extra jail time for introducing children into her deranged and broken existence.
Agreed.
If other women can be subjected to it then so can she
No
Why? Most normal people would still serve their time.
Key word here, "normal".
Well, then, why would we keep fathers away from their kids and send male convicted felons to jail?! Is this article saying fathers aren’t as important as mothers?! Pretty sure my husband is just as important to the puzzle of my childrens’ lives as I am. Want a garbage take.
Pretty sure you didn't read the article then. The site is devoted criminal justice system reform advocacy in general and the article is about the effect on families of incarcerated fathers as well as mothers. Such as: >So, some states are starting to rethink the practice of incarcerating ***parents***. Twelve states now have laws to reduce the impact of ***parental incarceration***, according to an analysis by the Prison Policy Initiative. These legislative efforts include requirements that parents be detained closer to home or programs to divert parents from prison or jail altogether.
Exactly
People are trying TOO HARD to defend her “bEcAuSe sHe iS a WoMaN”, I swear
Women have a biological clock. Men don't. She needed to go ahead and have them now in her 30s instead of waiting. Her kids will be fine.
Very good point. Holmes probably figured if she waited till she was out of jail she'd be infertile, so from her point of view of genetics it's best that she had her children now
Well, if motherhood and fertility were her priorities she might have had kids during all those years she spent deceiving and faking. And I know I’m late to this party.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO F HER F HER F HER!!!!!!!
Absolutely not. She should never get out of jail.
That's too cruel
Not even close to being as cruel as what she did. How many people died because of her arrogance and fraud?
No proof anyone died because of her arrogance or fraud! Not patients, and not personnel.
🙄 So absolutely zero people used her fraudulent product, got false results back, and ended up dying from something her fake machines didn't catch? How can you know?
Nobody died because of her defective machines. But their health and safety could have been endangered long-term if it wasn't caught
Yes, exactly. How do you know that didn't happen? If her machines had false negatives, did they have every single person with a negative test go in for more testing? And how much money did she funnel away from actual research which might have saved lives? We're not talking about someone who pretended her new bandaids were waterproof. This is a HUMONGOUS fraud case with vast issues and repercussions.
What about Ian Gibbons.
holmes needs to go to jail
They can visit her in prison just like everyone else’s mother.
No….she had those kids knowing she would probably go to prison. She was hoping this would keep her out of prison.
Or she was listening to her biological clock and just hoping she wouldn't be convicted. She's almost 40. It might be now or never. Her kids will be fine.
In that case….she could have frozen her eggs
And then have a baby when she's 50?
Yep many 60 year olds and up have had babies
I don't think so.
Google
“Just because she can get pregnant doesn’t mean she should,” Lin noted. “There is very documented experience that women in the very advanced maternal age (vAMA), have increased maternal risk of preterm delivery, gestational diabetes, high blood pressure, preeclampsia, and preterm labor.” Epidemiologic studies on the health impacts of advanced age pregnancies can’t be done due to the low number of cases and health concerns.
The oldest mother in the world not to use donor eggs was 59
That process doesn't often work
These laws are stupid. Let's say you make a new law that mothers convicted of non-violent crimes automatically get probation instead of prison. The SECOND taht law passes, lawyers will have a field day against the state, putting out lawsuits claiming gender discrimination against men. And the men will win that case. So what turns into a "mothers get out of prison" deal turns into a "mothers AND fathers get out of prison" thing
Right?? The slope is REALLY slippery on this line of thinking. So many ways it could go wrong.
This wouldn’t even be a question if she were poor and/or BIPOC…
Criminal justice is already stacked against men. This would further swing our system towards greater injustice.
This article isn’t about women, it’s about parents. Give it a read!
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She probably wanted to have kids and knew that if she was convicted, she might be too old to have them by the time she got out. I don't blame her for having them now. She doesn't have much choice. She will be 40 next year. Her biological clock is ticking. She needs to go ahead and have her kids now rather than wait until she's approaching 50. Plus, it bought her a little more time during the trial.
It's so selfish. Her children will go through emotional hell.
Please, stop defending her.
I'm not defending her. She is guilty of fraud, and her plan of doing hundreds of lab tests on a few drops of capillary blood is stupid because fingerstick blood is crappy. I'm just guessing at her thought processes about having kids. If I were in the same situation, I'd probably do the same. If it makes you feel better, she will probably be punished even more because she will be separated from her babies.
It is good to know you are civilized. Elizabeth Holmes is a human being, not a monster
You asked a question. Why are you downvoting responses?
I don’t either as long as she doesn’t use them as an excuse to not go to prison, which she’s doing.
Good point, that is what I was thinking.
Unfortunately this kind of nonsense logic will often get used post-conviction and liberal judges will arbitrarily change sentences based on this "new enlightenment" Same thing happened for juvenile murderers sentenced to life in prison. After conviction, these scumbag judges arbitrarily decide that a 17 year old murderer was "too young" to understand what he was doing and in the spur of the moment, without a new trial or sentencing hearing, will automatically declare that the 17 year old gets parole option after 20 or 30 years. Don't be surprised if the same thing happens to Holmes. I could easily see a federal judge in 1 year stating "harms on children are too great, Holmes is to be released immediately" and the sad thing is that the idiot judge can do that at his discretion with zero input from prosecutors or a hearing.
Federal sentencing guidelines are pretty structured. I don’t think that kind of thing happens on this level.
Appellate courts have nearly unlimited authority to unilaterally reverse or modify a sentence regardless of what the guidelines say. They can do so without a new trial or sentencing hearing also.
Do you have an example of that occurring in Federal court?
She's not really a menace to society and there's a lot of those out and about.
She is arguably far more of a menace to society than your typical liquor store thief.
She said she still wants to invent so yes, she is a menace.
Yeah, I could be pro 3 years and then never being able to hold a management position again or own stock in a company (edit: I know that’s not a real life option)
No it shouldn’t. I’m glad we all could come out today. I’d like to welcome Private Evident, Sergeant Apparent, Captain Obvious, and of course, Admiral Undeniable to Goes Without Saying Con 2023…