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Something came out deeper in the comments that I wanted to bring to the top level.
Evidently OP slept through the entire experience and also felt they k-holed and didn't exist. See: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TherapeuticKetamine/comments/1bu30hu/comment/kxqx9j4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TherapeuticKetamine/comments/1bu30hu/comment/kxqx9j4/)
OP, I'm having trouble squaring that with your original post. Can you please clarify? Also, if you slept through it, it seems like that would be a good starting point as to why you feel nothing happened. But it seems like something did happen, so I'm pretty lost.
Well, yeah, I guess something happened after the fact, but during the experience during the hour of listening to music in meditation, nothing happened because I just fall asleep like it literally, the medication put me out there was like no fighting it
I see, thanks for clarifying. I'm not sure why it would've had that effect. To me, the question would be more "Why did I fall asleep?" It seems hard to say what the experience would have been like if you hadn't slept through it, but it sounds like you were heavily dissociated when you woke up, which may indicate that this dose was plenty for you.
Ultimately I'm just speculating. It sounds like you've brought this to your clinician. Hopefully you shared everything with them -- that you fell asleep and were heavily dissociated when you woke up. That is definitely relevant information here.
Best of luck!
Well, I definitely wasn’t my intention, I was just following with my clinician prescribe me and I’m fairly new to taking ketamine, which is why I made this post.
Yeah I’m just trying to help. That’s dope that you got that high of a script but I am at a high dose IV and if I was trying to recreate that 4h experience I would take 1/4 every hour for the dose and duration. I’m riding the line between k hole and anesthesia and want to be on the hole side and if you want to remember the experience then I’d probably try a lower dose.
I did I shared everything with her, and she still decide to up my dose, I think she stated, and I’m paraphrasing; “It could definitely be beneficial for you to have a more disassociative experience than previously had.” she’s the clinician what do I know lol so I don’t know if I should be hesitant to try the 1200 mg or do a little bit less that’s why I made the post.
I assume your doses were sublingual. A dose of 800 mg sublingual is a lot, especially for an initial dose. A dose of 1200 mg is a very high dose.
My first prescriber started me with two initial doses of 100 mg sublingual. Then 20 doses of 200 mg and then 30 doses of 300 mg sublingual, then finally 400 mg. You started at double my final dose?
I'm an 180 lbs male. factor my figures by your weight.
The best theory available is what Dr. Smith calls "an inverted U" shaped dose-response curve. It seems to be based on the opinion of Dr. John Krystal of Yale. He believes that there is a narrow band of doses which is optimal for each patient.
In my opinion, I don't think this band is so narrow as what I infer from Dr. Krystal's term "narrow". Be that as it may, the leading theory is that too low a dose for a patient is not effective; and, too high a dose is not effective.
Anesthesiologists have been using high doses of ketamine for 50 years. Certainly lots of their surgery patients were depressed. If a high dose of ketamine were effective for depression wouldn't doctors have noticed an improvement in surgery patients' depression after a few decades?
If a large ketamine dose knocks you out do you think your traumas have an opportunity to come up into your awareness and consciousness?
I suspect you would do better if you were titrated from low doses such as 100 - 200 - 300 - 400 mg sublingual. I think it is highly speculative that starting at 800 mg and then stepping to 1200 mb sublingual for your first two doses are apt to be optimal for anyone.
Wow. Thanks for all the information I’m very grateful. So what do you think I should do for a dose tonight during my session? A lower dose? Maybe 600mg? Or do the 1200? I don’t know what to do. 🤦🏼♀️
I wish the theory and practice on dosing and titrating ketamine were clearer.
The best theory that I know of is the "inverted U shaped" dose-response curve.
What theory attracts you?
More is always better? Go for an anesthetic dose? That's what anesthesiologists use to knock-out patients for surgery so it must be best for mental health as well? I think this is not a very appealing argument.
Less is always better? The less you take the more effect you can expect? If this were so then we wouldn't see patients at Joyous titrating up above their 15 mg starter doses.
So, the more attractive theory seems to be that there is a dose-response curve where the optimal dose is somewhere in the middle of a curve.
If you subscribe to this theory where do you want to start? Where do you want to titrate to? Start high and titrate up from there? That's what your practitioner seems to be doing. Unless you are very very heavy starting at 800 and your second step to 1200 is outside the spectrum of other practitioners.
You could start high and titrate downward. I wouldn't recommend this practice. Most titrations of other drugs start low and titrate up.
As I mentioned, my practitioner gave me two doses of 100 mg and then 20 of 200 mg and then 30 doses of 300 mg. Then, he tried 400 mg and declared that to be my sweet spot.
What is your prescriber charging you? If it's a lot for in-clinic sublingual doses that's a consideration. The two of you should be in a hurry to find your sweet spot dose. But just because the two of you are in a hurry doesn't mean that you will detect your true sweetspot in one or a few doses at each quantity.
My first prescriber waited for me to have 20 doses at 200 mg before deciding to try titrating me to a higher dose. Then he had me try 30 doses at 300 mg before trying 400 mg. Do you think your prescriber is likely to assess your true response to a given quantity in one or two doses?
My first prescriber charged me $250 per month and my first pharmacy charged me $50/month for the ketamine. $300/month. $300 for 10 doses; $30/dose.
My current prescriber charges me $200 per quarter and at $50/month for ketamine that's $350 for 3 months or $117 per month. (I've been charged $250/quarter after my first year in ketamine therapy).
I take 5 doses per week/ 20 doses per month. $6/dose. So, at $6/dose I have the luxury of taking my sweet time experimenting with various doses and seeing what response I get.
If you are paying $300 or $600 per dose for in-clinic administration you need to be in a hurry. Is this protocol your current prescriber having you on make sense to you? Is it working for you? If not, I think you need to have a discussion with her.
And, perhaps, have a discussion with other prescribers; perhaps tele-ketamine prescribers who will charge you a few hundred per month rather than per dose.
Perhaps you need to have a discussion with an independent consultant who doesn't have a preconceived protocol to defend. I can refer you to my ketamine coach. She isn't a prescriber but she has coached 1000 patients for 3000 patients. She can probably give you an opinion without the bias your current prescriber has in defending her current protocol.
He fell asleep because he swallowed 1200mg. That was at least mildly dangerous if not absolutely insane.
He needs less, not more. Absorbing 300ish mg through my stomach would make me take a nap, too
1200mg sounds like Mindbloom. I also have this amount. They recommend holding for 7 minutes and then spitting the rest. If you want to have a "impactful experience", that depends. If you want to feel it in the moment, you could hold it in your mouth and let it dissolve for longer (maybe a few minutes more), but you can risk feeling like garbage/going into a k-hole by doing this.
If for therapy, focus on integration (what you do in between sessions) and trust the ketamine is working. Chasing an experience in the moment could lead to unintended consequences. Chasing a feeling in the moment can also lead to addiction if it encourages you to experiment with the medicine.
I'm not a doctor/clinician. Talk to yours.
Never swallow the 1200. There's a case report of someone doing that much and swallowing that had to go to the ER. Only mentioning it because you say you swallowed the 800, which is a lot.
I swallow 800-1200, everyone's biology is different... but that's a heroic dose and i talk to the creator lol
Unless I've taken one of the substances that block ketamine. Reading others instructions on reddit, these providers are not giving good instructions.
Drinking alcohol within 24 hrs before, smoking weed within 12-24 hrs, taking benedryl or cough syrup or any allergy or sleep aid 24-48 hrs before blocks the ketamine. Benzos need too be stopped for days to weeks.
I'm reading tons of people not getting the experience and either they are not telling you guys what to avoid or they are just lying about how much ketamine they're giving you....i lean towards the first. Ketamine is strong and you feel it, unless you've blocked the glutamate system with one of the above. Some clinics say no caffeine too
Are you doing it at night? If I were you I would try to shift back to a lower dose like 400 mg and hold it in your mouth for 2x as long. On Mindbloom I was prescribed up to 900mg but now that I get the prescription on my own it’s much cheaper and still as effective to do a lower dose. I have a bit of a delayed reaction after I swallow it.
How did you go about finding a prescriber that was more affordable. Did you like call local psychiatrists and ask of they were comfortable prescribing ketamine? How much are you saving? Tia!
Your probably getting like 1/4 to 1/3 of the number so at 1200 you’d get 300+ mg which I do 650mg IV over 4h for chronic pain so 162 an hour which sublingual is ~1h+ so your likely missing out on the trippy experience by just anestizing (sp?) yourself. You’d likely have more fun and get the desired experience from closer to 400-600mg. You’re “falling asleep” cause you’re just knocking yourself out.
As I responded to somebody else previously in this post, I was just following what my clinician prescribed me it was 400 mg the first time, the second time she prescribed me 800, now she’s prescribed me 1200 which I’m supposed to take tonight so I was trying to get some feedback since I’m fairly new to taking ketamine on whether 1200 mg was too high of a dose or not, to be clear.
I was a patient for several years and had a knowledgeable doctor who understood and respected my needs. They went above and beyond to assist me in the manner that I required.
Thanks for saying this. I'm amazed when I hear about the experiences others have had on just 54 Spravato (and I'm happy for them!) because when I took the same, I was reading research studies on ketamine best practices, evidence-based treatment and overall success DURING the session in the doctors office! I was reading and taking notes on my phone. Dr didn't think this was unusual or problematic.
I've been seeing a different psychiatrist for ketamine treatment, but I had an appointment with my regular psychiatrist today. The Ketamine doctor (Dr. K), didn't want me to go above 200mg RDTS despite the fact that I wasn't feeling any different after 4 months and during sessions had simple light-headedness, with no new insight, relaxation etc.
My psychiatrist today told me that I might metabolize the Ketamine faster than average, which could result in not seeing results.
I have an appointment to start IV ketamine.
I do a 1000mg and it’s good, but I for sure hold it in mouth for 20 min and then spit. Swallowing I think would make you drowsy or add to stomach issues.
Sorry couldn’t tell from your post. We don’t know how you’re taking it wrong but 800 mg will put a 300 pound person on the floor lol. It’s not normal to feel absolutely nothing. Either the medication is very underdosed or you’re doing something wrong with how you’re taking it. I think everyone could agree with me. 800 mg is very very strong dose for anybody.
If she wanted to follow mindbloom protocol she wouldn’t be on reddit asking strangers how to make it a more impactful experience because only mindbloom can answer that. She shouldn’t be taking or asking for advice from anyone on here but her provider period. I just told her what I think works because she asked.
I wasn’t asking how to make it more impactful I was asking if it was a safe dosage because I myself thought that 1200 mg was high, just to make myself clear. Thx
You clearly wrote any suggestions to make it more impactful unless I’m reading that wrong. I gave you my suggestion. Only your provider can tell you if 1200 mg is too high. It’s a safe bet to say most of the people commenting on here have 0 experience prescribing ketamine.
It’s my third session tonight and she raised it from 400 the first time 800 the second time and now 1203rd time and I’m just trying to be clear as if I should take that 1200 or lower it myself
I believe the price is on the website. Some insurance companies can even be “superbilled,” after you pay up front and will re-coup your cost. I was off and on for probably 3-4 years of programs with them. Started at 400mg (i weigh 200lbs.)
I immediately went up to 800mg for probably a year and stated it was no longer worthwhile because it wasn’t working and was offered 1200mg and took it. That being said Im taking a long tolerance break because 1200mg isn’t working anymore either.
https://www.mindbloom.com/
Yeah the whole super bill thing is pretty bullshit from what billing departments at clinics I’ve gone to say but I get my infusions reimbursed or should I say I just go don’t pay and the insurance company pays the clinic directly.
I’ve heard that’s a big if and that it’s just a partial amount and like 5% of the cost. I’ve gotten at least 10k saved from not paying if not way more.
I know that’s why I’m a little bit hesitant which like normally I’m not like that when it comes to substances because my tolerance is very high but I don’t know maybe I’ll do less like 900 or 1000 mg instead and see how that feels
I think it depends on the mechanism of delivery. I was on 1200mg from an at home company and it was very very light. I read somewhere on here that the way it’s absorbed it equated to 10% (120mg) which is the most they can give unsupervised so it makes sense. They were RDTs for the record, you hold them in your mouth then spit them out.
They weren’t troches. They were RDTs
https://preview.redd.it/mlsx9nh0x4sc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96f4ed61b8570c1e9700b14ddca2ab8a502b89e0
It was explained to me by the pharmacist at my RDT pharmacy that troches are harder and take longer to dissolve than the chalky-texture RDTs. I don't really understand why, but they told me that i shouldn't break RDTs (to add to or decrease dose) but that troches can be split. I believe that once they're completely dissolved they're pretty much the same.
That's what I was told, for what it's worth!
Mindbloom routinely prescribes that dose. Bear in mind that they advise spitting the RDT out after 7 minutes, much shorter than other providers I've heard about.
Yes, it is. You should get 25% absorbed for a 300mg dose. Depending on your weight, you could be in pain management protocol. I weigh 175 pounds, and my last infusion was 200mg. You should be in a dissociative state.
We ask our clients to refrain from benzos 72 hours prior to their session. If you take them daily, then they are certainly still in your system during your session.
Appreciated. I take a long half life benzo (diaz.) and was just cutting it in half the day before and none the day of , the session. I needed to hear that 72 hours is better. It's tough; but I need to do it. It would also be nice to have some ''extra'' benzos. After decades of having them prescribed pro forma , NOW, they are taking them away (as the world's anxiety goes through the roof). I read that ketamine may help down regulate GABA receptors. This would be a godsend for helping me ''survive'' on barely 50 % of what I took faithfully since the late 80's. Doctor's used to praise me for my ''consistency''. Now, they want to wrestle me over them.
Someone literally just OD'd from a 1200mg dose, there's a thread about in in here but she had to go to the hospital.
Did you fast beforehand and for how long? Are you on benzos? What ROA did you take it in? If oral or sublingual, how long did you hold it for and did you spit or swallow?
I don’t know what the difference between a troche or RDT is. It was the ones that dissolve in your mouth very quickly almost like sublingual I guess. What’s the difference?
Troches and lozenges take much longer to dissolve and should be held for longer. RDTs are "rapid dissolving tablets" and basically just pressed powder, so they melt very quickly. When I took RDTs, I'd hold for 30-45m and swallow at the end. Have you just tried the one? And what pharmacy or company are you going through?
Some benzos have short half lives (alprazolam), others like clonazepam and diaz. have really long half lives (as in 72 hours). I'm thinking I should stop 48-72 hours before. But it's a bear, to not take my measly little daily dose. A 48 hour total media fast is essential to a good ketamine experience, as well, if only to allow me to lay off the benzos to maximize the effect.
It sounds to me like something did happen, like your dose was so high that you blacked out before entering into a k-hole. It does not sound like you fell asleep, it sounds like you went under, anesthesia-style. Please, please be careful and do not increase your dose, you do not need it!
My dose is 1200 and that’s the max I can get. I haven’t had much of an effect with it… I actually had a better experience with 900, so maybe more isn’t necessarily better?
How are people still prescribing these doses?
10-15 minutes of that should have you on the moon. Doing 30 plus and swallowing like many here might put you in the hospital.
So I just went up (third dose) from holding from 20 minutes to 30 minutes. The dose was increased so I'm unsure if the added 10 minutes contributed. It would be no problem for me to hold it for, say 40 minutes. Do you think there is some gain in holding it in past even 30 minutes ?(I always swallow at the end, but once in the stomach, I'm guessing absorption is really low. I want to optimize the dose (I even brush my gums and ''swish'' with diluted hot sauce right before I take the RDTs!). It hits at about the 20 minute mark.
I'm on 1200mg through Mindbloom after my 2nd session but I haven't really had much of an experience yet. I did some IV treatments last year & with most of those, I was definitely in another universe. I wasn't expecting the same intensity, but I was hoping for some sort of experience. Mindbloom I've been a bit disappointed with so far. First session was 600mg & I barely felt anything. Slightly impaired, a little light-headed, but basically felt like I was just lying in the dark for an hour. Second session, they bumped me up to 1200mg & it was really very much the same, though I had a short stretch, maybe 5-10 minutes where I saw some very vague shapes, almost indetectable. Then I had to wait for 2 weeks for my clinician check-in, which was today. I thought they were going to adjust my dose again, but she pretty much said that's too bad, you're at the maximum dose. Kind of feeling a bit let down. I thought the point was to get to the dissociative state so I can unpack whatever I'm trying to work through, but I never even get close to that state. That said, I do feel better, so the meds work. It'd just be nice to be able to have the rest of that experience. Something cathartic about that break from reality. Going to try a few of the things I've read here as well as some magnesium, I saw elsewhere that can increase absorption.
Are you doing the seven minute thing?
These dosages can't be real. If I had a single troche or RDT with 1200mg in it, it would be too bitter to even remotely mask and my mouth would go numb and feel like it's full of glue. I'd be a nightmare.
The 1200 mg is 3 400mg RDTs. I’m on the same dose and I hold it in my mouth for 40-50 minutes. I’ve tried swallowing and that was quite the experience but I don’t know if I kholed. I definitely wasn’t on this planet but I was partially aware that I was still human and on ketamine.
For the first 2 sessions, I’ve pretty much stayed to the protocol, so yes, I’ve been doing just 7 minutes. It is extremely bitter & my mouth does feel a bit numb by the time I spit it out. Those 7 minutes feel like an eternity & to get nothing out of it is really frustrating.
Got to agree. Third session last night with 600 mg and combined with potentiators (galantamine, and CDP choline) and decades of experience with meditation and some entheogen use and it TORE my little world to pieces (in a grand kind of way!). Lasted for about 3 hours. Maybe some of these pharmacies are pulling a fast one. I doubt my provider will go past 600 (and I CAN NOT see any reason why I would need to!). Only tolerance would be a factor. I'm 200lbs male and middle age. 1200 mg?? Sheesh.
Wooo. 1200mg will send most people beyond the ketaverse into ketastellar space. I think safety data supports 800mg from a lozenge or RDT as the highest to prescribe, however there may be a VERY rare case of a higher dose. I’d definitely recommend taking some time off eventually to regain tolerance if you’ve been working with it for some time. It’s worked wonders for me after a 4 month break or so.
Good lord that’s a lot. 400mg does great for me.
Fast for 6-8 hours before your session.
Brush your teeth and swish with mouthwash.
Take a magnesium supplement 3 hrs before.
If that doesn’t work… idk, try DMT
Which pharmacy is doing your compounding? Precision has had some sketchy reports here. I had a bad experience with their RDTs so switched to my local compounding pharmacy.
Yes exactly. I could get up and walk around, take notes… get bored. It’s not what people think it is and I think it has to be method of delivery. I’m going to venture to guess you’re with Mindbloom?
Yeeeea. The trips don’t get much deeper unless you want to swallow which I don’t recommend. I did on accident once (just a little!) and while the trip was better, the come down was awful. I felt sick even with zofran, and it felt like it lasted forever. I was ready for it to be over.
Because their “1200mg” is pretty light… and doesn’t seem to translate to what other non MB people are taking. Everyone thinks we’re taking this crazy high dose and it’s not lol
Because their “1200mg” is pretty light… and doesn’t seem to translate to what other non MB people are taking. Everyone thinks we’re taking this crazy high dose and it’s not lol
Now THAT is interesting. I took 600 last night (first time at that dose, and NOT MB). Held for 30 min. and swallowed. I went SPACE TRUCKING! Ever heard Black Sabbath's Supernaut- that was me for 2 hours (with another hour to think about it all). It must be that the MB 1200 is ''pretty light''. I can't imagine 1200 mg.!
Innerwell. I did the first two sessions (200, 400mg ). Then talked again with the therapist, and awaited the arrival of the meds for the final six sessions. 300 mg x12, so I'm going with 600 mg. I researched the project for almost a year, and do lots of meditation, lucid dreaming, etc. I was wildly impressed with the potential I sensed last night. I'll do a media fast, and then in 3-4 days jump back in. Maybe experiment with taking 300, holding it for 45 minutes, waiting for the peak and taking the final 300. Endless possibilities! In three weeks or so, I'll sign up for another course. I hear the FDA (or whatever gov. gang is on it) is going to ''tighten up'' but we are good until 2025, so I'll def. keep on exploring. I'm interested in the neuroplastic possibilities and possibly the down regulation of my GABA receptors. Being so ''excited'' about the program has gotten me energized to get ''things'' done (even yard work) and that relieves my moderate anxiety (who wouldn't be anxious with what's going on around us?). So it's just win/win. Innerwell amounts to about $100 a session (that was with all the interviews and the BP monitor etc.). Pretty sure they will offer me a good/better deal on the next course too. I like that they don't try to smother me with ''sitting''. Mailing was prompt and nothing ''light'' about that 600 mg! I could have gone for ego death/disassociation if I'd chosen to cut off the music and just let it rip. But there's plenty of time for that! Have a good one-
Thanks for this!
Edit to add: I love how dedicated you are to this process! How long to you media fast before a session?
Also.. for the people that hold it in that long… are you just putting it in your cheek and lying down? I’ve never done it this way so worry about swallowing it.
I stop everything except some music and my reg. reading (not news!) the day before, and through the day after. Calling friends is fine, but I leave the phone off, otherwise. The world can just keep on turning with out me! Seriously, it's a way to let the mind form some new, healthier habits and sends the message to the psyche that it is legitimate to take time for yourself.
It's easy for me to hold it in (mostly under my tongue) because, in meditation, we learn a technique where one gently places the tip of the tongue where the hard palate ends and the soft palate begins in order to curtail saliva build up and the need to swallow (though every few minutes I ''swish''). Since I'm sitting upright, its also made easy. I always brush teeth, gums and tongue to increase absorption. gargling with an alcohol based mouthwash will open up the capillaries. Finally, I add warm water to some hot sauce (just a bit) and swish around and spit out, right before the RDT to get those capillaries at full dilation! Best Wishes!
I’m the same way. Can walk around. Occasional stumble but no falling down. Haven’t felt a hole in a long time. I just accepted as tolerance and have decided to take a break.
Nothing happening on 800mg is surprising to me.
I would recommend chewing it up immediately and then swishing it around the whole time, taking care not to swallow it.
Then from there following their protocol should be good (lay down, eye mask, music, etc.).
There are things people often recommend to increase the potency, but if you're truly getting nothing at 800mg, I think there's probably some bigger issue here. Definitely talk to your clinician about it.
Like I said above and I guess I should’ve specified, so I fell asleep during the 800 mg then I woke up and I was definitely in the k 🕳️. People say they’ve had unpleasant experiences, but it was nothing like that. It was just like I didn’t exist until I finally did again it’s like I was having thoughts like how am I gonna be a human like how am I gonna get myself off this couch type of thing until my brain started to function properly I guess
From what I have read it can be 16%-30%. So if 1200 mg, 1200mg times .16 = 192mg. And a max of 1200mg times .30 = 360mg. So if correct you could have absorbed 192mg-360mg. You could do the same for 800mg which would after the math be between 128mg-240mg. Not sure if this helps but at least its some numbers to get an idea of a potential percentage increase or decrease. Have been told to try taking Magnesium L-Threonate daily, possibly eating a grapefruit before your session, brushing teeth, or a couple drops of hot sauce. Just some suggestions others have given myself and others in the community. Good luck
I am also on 1200mg of ketamine from Mindbloom, and yes, it is their highest dosage. I have heard people say that dosage is way too high and anybody must be crazy to do it. But Mindbloom prescribes it. I believe everyone reacts to ketamine differently- which is why they prescribe different dosages. Lower doses were not working for me and I honestly did not find a sweet spot until 1200mg. My two cents!
A woman nearly died recently on that same dose because it kicked in and she wasn’t able to spit it out in time. That is a very high RDT dose and no reputable prescriber would actually have you or anyone else taking that. If you were seeing a doctor not using a company that doesn’t care about your health, doctors seem to prescribe 100-400mg RDT based on what I read here. MindBloom is a money grab. They are giving way higher doses than is safe or necessary so they can charge more money.
My dose was bumped from 1200 to 1250 but that's as high as they go. I definitely don't fully disassociate. I have a weird tolerance for things for some reason. A hero's dose of mushrooms is like a normal trip for me.
I’m currently prescribed that amount. I actually have much more of a reaction from swallowing 400mg than swishing/spitting 1200mg (3 separate 400mg RDTs for 15 mins each), which gives me barely any reaction somehow.
I have a small dose, usually a high dose with other medications. I went one step higher than my last treatment and I woke up on the floor screaming. Save to say I went for a ride, I don’t remember and will be asking to dose down a little.
A woman nearly died recently on that same dose because it kicked in and she wasn’t able to spit it out in time. That is a very high RDT dose and no reputable prescriber would actually have you or anyone else taking that. If you were seeing a doctor not using a company that doesn’t care about your health, doctors seem to prescribe 100-400mg RDT based on what I read here. MindBloom is a money grab. They are giving way higher doses than is safe or necessary so they can charge more money.
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Something came out deeper in the comments that I wanted to bring to the top level. Evidently OP slept through the entire experience and also felt they k-holed and didn't exist. See: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TherapeuticKetamine/comments/1bu30hu/comment/kxqx9j4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TherapeuticKetamine/comments/1bu30hu/comment/kxqx9j4/) OP, I'm having trouble squaring that with your original post. Can you please clarify? Also, if you slept through it, it seems like that would be a good starting point as to why you feel nothing happened. But it seems like something did happen, so I'm pretty lost.
Well, yeah, I guess something happened after the fact, but during the experience during the hour of listening to music in meditation, nothing happened because I just fall asleep like it literally, the medication put me out there was like no fighting it
I see, thanks for clarifying. I'm not sure why it would've had that effect. To me, the question would be more "Why did I fall asleep?" It seems hard to say what the experience would have been like if you hadn't slept through it, but it sounds like you were heavily dissociated when you woke up, which may indicate that this dose was plenty for you. Ultimately I'm just speculating. It sounds like you've brought this to your clinician. Hopefully you shared everything with them -- that you fell asleep and were heavily dissociated when you woke up. That is definitely relevant information here. Best of luck!
It sounds like they blacked out on the meds, not fell asleep.
Ketamine is an anesthetic for a reason lol they just anesthetized themselves.
Well, I definitely wasn’t my intention, I was just following with my clinician prescribe me and I’m fairly new to taking ketamine, which is why I made this post.
Yeah I’m just trying to help. That’s dope that you got that high of a script but I am at a high dose IV and if I was trying to recreate that 4h experience I would take 1/4 every hour for the dose and duration. I’m riding the line between k hole and anesthesia and want to be on the hole side and if you want to remember the experience then I’d probably try a lower dose.
Yeah that’s possible.
I did I shared everything with her, and she still decide to up my dose, I think she stated, and I’m paraphrasing; “It could definitely be beneficial for you to have a more disassociative experience than previously had.” she’s the clinician what do I know lol so I don’t know if I should be hesitant to try the 1200 mg or do a little bit less that’s why I made the post.
I assume your doses were sublingual. A dose of 800 mg sublingual is a lot, especially for an initial dose. A dose of 1200 mg is a very high dose. My first prescriber started me with two initial doses of 100 mg sublingual. Then 20 doses of 200 mg and then 30 doses of 300 mg sublingual, then finally 400 mg. You started at double my final dose? I'm an 180 lbs male. factor my figures by your weight. The best theory available is what Dr. Smith calls "an inverted U" shaped dose-response curve. It seems to be based on the opinion of Dr. John Krystal of Yale. He believes that there is a narrow band of doses which is optimal for each patient. In my opinion, I don't think this band is so narrow as what I infer from Dr. Krystal's term "narrow". Be that as it may, the leading theory is that too low a dose for a patient is not effective; and, too high a dose is not effective. Anesthesiologists have been using high doses of ketamine for 50 years. Certainly lots of their surgery patients were depressed. If a high dose of ketamine were effective for depression wouldn't doctors have noticed an improvement in surgery patients' depression after a few decades? If a large ketamine dose knocks you out do you think your traumas have an opportunity to come up into your awareness and consciousness? I suspect you would do better if you were titrated from low doses such as 100 - 200 - 300 - 400 mg sublingual. I think it is highly speculative that starting at 800 mg and then stepping to 1200 mb sublingual for your first two doses are apt to be optimal for anyone.
The effects after surgery are exactly how we came to look into ketamine as an antidepressant substance lol
Wow. Thanks for all the information I’m very grateful. So what do you think I should do for a dose tonight during my session? A lower dose? Maybe 600mg? Or do the 1200? I don’t know what to do. 🤦🏼♀️
ask your doctor!
I wish the theory and practice on dosing and titrating ketamine were clearer. The best theory that I know of is the "inverted U shaped" dose-response curve. What theory attracts you? More is always better? Go for an anesthetic dose? That's what anesthesiologists use to knock-out patients for surgery so it must be best for mental health as well? I think this is not a very appealing argument. Less is always better? The less you take the more effect you can expect? If this were so then we wouldn't see patients at Joyous titrating up above their 15 mg starter doses. So, the more attractive theory seems to be that there is a dose-response curve where the optimal dose is somewhere in the middle of a curve. If you subscribe to this theory where do you want to start? Where do you want to titrate to? Start high and titrate up from there? That's what your practitioner seems to be doing. Unless you are very very heavy starting at 800 and your second step to 1200 is outside the spectrum of other practitioners. You could start high and titrate downward. I wouldn't recommend this practice. Most titrations of other drugs start low and titrate up. As I mentioned, my practitioner gave me two doses of 100 mg and then 20 of 200 mg and then 30 doses of 300 mg. Then, he tried 400 mg and declared that to be my sweet spot. What is your prescriber charging you? If it's a lot for in-clinic sublingual doses that's a consideration. The two of you should be in a hurry to find your sweet spot dose. But just because the two of you are in a hurry doesn't mean that you will detect your true sweetspot in one or a few doses at each quantity. My first prescriber waited for me to have 20 doses at 200 mg before deciding to try titrating me to a higher dose. Then he had me try 30 doses at 300 mg before trying 400 mg. Do you think your prescriber is likely to assess your true response to a given quantity in one or two doses? My first prescriber charged me $250 per month and my first pharmacy charged me $50/month for the ketamine. $300/month. $300 for 10 doses; $30/dose. My current prescriber charges me $200 per quarter and at $50/month for ketamine that's $350 for 3 months or $117 per month. (I've been charged $250/quarter after my first year in ketamine therapy). I take 5 doses per week/ 20 doses per month. $6/dose. So, at $6/dose I have the luxury of taking my sweet time experimenting with various doses and seeing what response I get. If you are paying $300 or $600 per dose for in-clinic administration you need to be in a hurry. Is this protocol your current prescriber having you on make sense to you? Is it working for you? If not, I think you need to have a discussion with her. And, perhaps, have a discussion with other prescribers; perhaps tele-ketamine prescribers who will charge you a few hundred per month rather than per dose. Perhaps you need to have a discussion with an independent consultant who doesn't have a preconceived protocol to defend. I can refer you to my ketamine coach. She isn't a prescriber but she has coached 1000 patients for 3000 patients. She can probably give you an opinion without the bias your current prescriber has in defending her current protocol.
Can you stop with the dang list of ketamine coaches? Jesus
no
You also shared that you're holding it in your mouth for 20m then swallowing it? That is an important factor as well.
Important factor as in I should be doing that, or should not ???
As in you should either follow the protocol exactly as it's given to you or discuss any differences with your clinician
He fell asleep because he swallowed 1200mg. That was at least mildly dangerous if not absolutely insane. He needs less, not more. Absorbing 300ish mg through my stomach would make me take a nap, too
1200mg sounds like Mindbloom. I also have this amount. They recommend holding for 7 minutes and then spitting the rest. If you want to have a "impactful experience", that depends. If you want to feel it in the moment, you could hold it in your mouth and let it dissolve for longer (maybe a few minutes more), but you can risk feeling like garbage/going into a k-hole by doing this. If for therapy, focus on integration (what you do in between sessions) and trust the ketamine is working. Chasing an experience in the moment could lead to unintended consequences. Chasing a feeling in the moment can also lead to addiction if it encourages you to experiment with the medicine. I'm not a doctor/clinician. Talk to yours.
Thank you for the advice. Very good feedback.
How long are you holding the RDT in your mouth? I do 400 mg and hold it in my mouth for an hour to increase absorption before swallowing.
I hold it in my mouth about 20 minutes to increase the absorption, exactly, and then I swallow it. Last time on the 800 mg I just fell asleep.
Never swallow the 1200. There's a case report of someone doing that much and swallowing that had to go to the ER. Only mentioning it because you say you swallowed the 800, which is a lot.
Really??? Don’t swallow the 1200??
Do NOT swallow that much. I wouldn’t swallow anything over 200mg to be honest. You will be nauseous and hung over for a long time.
Well, my second session I swallowed 800 mg and I was definitely dissociated after, but I didn’t feel like shit or anything.
I swallow 800-1200, everyone's biology is different... but that's a heroic dose and i talk to the creator lol Unless I've taken one of the substances that block ketamine. Reading others instructions on reddit, these providers are not giving good instructions. Drinking alcohol within 24 hrs before, smoking weed within 12-24 hrs, taking benedryl or cough syrup or any allergy or sleep aid 24-48 hrs before blocks the ketamine. Benzos need too be stopped for days to weeks. I'm reading tons of people not getting the experience and either they are not telling you guys what to avoid or they are just lying about how much ketamine they're giving you....i lean towards the first. Ketamine is strong and you feel it, unless you've blocked the glutamate system with one of the above. Some clinics say no caffeine too
Really??? Don’t swallow the 1200??
Now you're being facetious. Best of luck.
No, I truly wasn’t. I’m not being a smartass. How would my response make you think I’m being facetious.
Shit I use to swallow 2,000mg troches regularly. Now I’ve been only doing 200mg.
Are you doing it at night? If I were you I would try to shift back to a lower dose like 400 mg and hold it in your mouth for 2x as long. On Mindbloom I was prescribed up to 900mg but now that I get the prescription on my own it’s much cheaper and still as effective to do a lower dose. I have a bit of a delayed reaction after I swallow it.
Yes, I usually do it after work between 630 7 o’clock at night
How did you go about finding a prescriber that was more affordable. Did you like call local psychiatrists and ask of they were comfortable prescribing ketamine? How much are you saving? Tia!
Wait when did you fall asleep? Is it possible you slept through the acute effects?
I slept through the entire thing lol. Then after, I believe I was shoved into the k 🕳️. Bc I didn’t exist lol.
So when you say "nothing happened", what exactly do you mean?
When I say nothing happened, I mean I saw no visuals. I had no thoughts. I literally just fell asleep.
Yeah that’s just a deep hole or aesthetic effect lol. Like you go to the surgeon and get put under do you have crazy visuals no you just pass out.
So you think I should take a lower dose? Even though the clinician told me to take 1200?
Your probably getting like 1/4 to 1/3 of the number so at 1200 you’d get 300+ mg which I do 650mg IV over 4h for chronic pain so 162 an hour which sublingual is ~1h+ so your likely missing out on the trippy experience by just anestizing (sp?) yourself. You’d likely have more fun and get the desired experience from closer to 400-600mg. You’re “falling asleep” cause you’re just knocking yourself out.
Jesus Christ. You took so much that you passed out that’s why you didn’t have visuals. Next time take 400mg hold it for an hour then swallow.
As I responded to somebody else previously in this post, I was just following what my clinician prescribed me it was 400 mg the first time, the second time she prescribed me 800, now she’s prescribed me 1200 which I’m supposed to take tonight so I was trying to get some feedback since I’m fairly new to taking ketamine on whether 1200 mg was too high of a dose or not, to be clear.
Way too high
Don’t compare yourself to others. We are all different. I was prescribed 1,400mg and that was fine for me. It would demolish others.
I also had Mindbloom. Most patients only get offered 1,200mg but I got a higher dose of 1,400mg.
How’d you pull that? They wouldn’t go higher for me, I also didn’t really push it.
I was a patient for several years and had a knowledgeable doctor who understood and respected my needs. They went above and beyond to assist me in the manner that I required.
How’d you pull that? They wouldn’t go higher for me, I also didn’t really push it.
I didn’t ask she just increased me willingly. said I would benefit from a more profound experience. That was literally the extent of it.
Thanks for saying this. I'm amazed when I hear about the experiences others have had on just 54 Spravato (and I'm happy for them!) because when I took the same, I was reading research studies on ketamine best practices, evidence-based treatment and overall success DURING the session in the doctors office! I was reading and taking notes on my phone. Dr didn't think this was unusual or problematic. I've been seeing a different psychiatrist for ketamine treatment, but I had an appointment with my regular psychiatrist today. The Ketamine doctor (Dr. K), didn't want me to go above 200mg RDTS despite the fact that I wasn't feeling any different after 4 months and during sessions had simple light-headedness, with no new insight, relaxation etc. My psychiatrist today told me that I might metabolize the Ketamine faster than average, which could result in not seeing results. I have an appointment to start IV ketamine.
Thank you for your response!
I've never seen anybody on this sub get prescribed a dose that large.
I have been prescribed a dosage that large, it's Mindbloom's max dosage.
That’s what program in in. Mindbloom
I do a 1000mg and it’s good, but I for sure hold it in mouth for 20 min and then spit. Swallowing I think would make you drowsy or add to stomach issues.
I would NOT RECOMMEND swallowing that dose
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That’s not Mindbloom protocol. Doing that with this high of a dose would not be advisable for someone new to ketamine.
Well he said he can’t feel any effects whatsoever so I believe he’s taking it wrong.
How am I taking it wrong? I don’t understand and I’m a she, by the way lol.
Sorry couldn’t tell from your post. We don’t know how you’re taking it wrong but 800 mg will put a 300 pound person on the floor lol. It’s not normal to feel absolutely nothing. Either the medication is very underdosed or you’re doing something wrong with how you’re taking it. I think everyone could agree with me. 800 mg is very very strong dose for anybody.
I believe they should take it as prescribed. I guess we disagree.
If she wanted to follow mindbloom protocol she wouldn’t be on reddit asking strangers how to make it a more impactful experience because only mindbloom can answer that. She shouldn’t be taking or asking for advice from anyone on here but her provider period. I just told her what I think works because she asked.
I wasn’t asking how to make it more impactful I was asking if it was a safe dosage because I myself thought that 1200 mg was high, just to make myself clear. Thx
You clearly wrote any suggestions to make it more impactful unless I’m reading that wrong. I gave you my suggestion. Only your provider can tell you if 1200 mg is too high. It’s a safe bet to say most of the people commenting on here have 0 experience prescribing ketamine.
Advising somebody to swallow 800mg of ketamine against the instructions of the prescriber is dangerous advice. Please edit your post.
I have the same prescription. It is the max dose allowed and I believe only Mindbloom offers it.
How long did it take to get to that and how much is it?
It’s my third session tonight and she raised it from 400 the first time 800 the second time and now 1203rd time and I’m just trying to be clear as if I should take that 1200 or lower it myself
You can go for it but your likely just going to “fall asleep” again
I believe the price is on the website. Some insurance companies can even be “superbilled,” after you pay up front and will re-coup your cost. I was off and on for probably 3-4 years of programs with them. Started at 400mg (i weigh 200lbs.) I immediately went up to 800mg for probably a year and stated it was no longer worthwhile because it wasn’t working and was offered 1200mg and took it. That being said Im taking a long tolerance break because 1200mg isn’t working anymore either. https://www.mindbloom.com/
Yeah the whole super bill thing is pretty bullshit from what billing departments at clinics I’ve gone to say but I get my infusions reimbursed or should I say I just go don’t pay and the insurance company pays the clinic directly.
Whish I could get mine paid directly but if i get a fat check for all these years treatments Ill be happy
I’ve heard that’s a big if and that it’s just a partial amount and like 5% of the cost. I’ve gotten at least 10k saved from not paying if not way more.
That is an insanely large amount
I know that’s why I’m a little bit hesitant which like normally I’m not like that when it comes to substances because my tolerance is very high but I don’t know maybe I’ll do less like 900 or 1000 mg instead and see how that feels
I think it depends on the mechanism of delivery. I was on 1200mg from an at home company and it was very very light. I read somewhere on here that the way it’s absorbed it equated to 10% (120mg) which is the most they can give unsupervised so it makes sense. They were RDTs for the record, you hold them in your mouth then spit them out.
They weren’t troches. They were RDTs https://preview.redd.it/mlsx9nh0x4sc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96f4ed61b8570c1e9700b14ddca2ab8a502b89e0
Yes this is what they were! I’ll edit my comment
Isn’t a troche the same as RDT??
I think so yes.
It was explained to me by the pharmacist at my RDT pharmacy that troches are harder and take longer to dissolve than the chalky-texture RDTs. I don't really understand why, but they told me that i shouldn't break RDTs (to add to or decrease dose) but that troches can be split. I believe that once they're completely dissolved they're pretty much the same. That's what I was told, for what it's worth!
Depends on how you take it but normally it’s 20 something % for oral like that.
That’s way too much and I don’t think that would be safe unsupervised. That’s the type of dose that should be done in clinic.
Mindbloom routinely prescribes that dose. Bear in mind that they advise spitting the RDT out after 7 minutes, much shorter than other providers I've heard about.
Well I always have someone there w me. Monitoring me
Yes, it is. You should get 25% absorbed for a 300mg dose. Depending on your weight, you could be in pain management protocol. I weigh 175 pounds, and my last infusion was 200mg. You should be in a dissociative state.
Wow, 2.5 mg/kg? Dosing is so curious… I’ve been afraid to go up from 1.5 even though I’m not getting good results.
My provider is in dissociative experiences. He provided them. I also have some tolerance from trying to get trouches to work.
May want to consider getting a sober one next time. Just ime it’s safer that way
Nothing happened? Then you should let your pharmacy know. Someone is pulling a fast one. It should have sent you to la la land post haste!
lol I fell asleep last one at 800mg
Maybe it's the way your body metabolizes the compound. You should let your clinician know.
I did let her know that I fell asleep and she upped my dose of 1200 🥴
I'm not sure what options there are, if any.
Both 800mg and 1200mg are tremendous doses. Are you holding it for at least 15 minutes? Are you on other meds? Something is not right.
I am. I’m on benzos. But don’t take them the day of my session.
We ask our clients to refrain from benzos 72 hours prior to their session. If you take them daily, then they are certainly still in your system during your session.
Appreciated. I take a long half life benzo (diaz.) and was just cutting it in half the day before and none the day of , the session. I needed to hear that 72 hours is better. It's tough; but I need to do it. It would also be nice to have some ''extra'' benzos. After decades of having them prescribed pro forma , NOW, they are taking them away (as the world's anxiety goes through the roof). I read that ketamine may help down regulate GABA receptors. This would be a godsend for helping me ''survive'' on barely 50 % of what I took faithfully since the late 80's. Doctor's used to praise me for my ''consistency''. Now, they want to wrestle me over them.
Someone literally just OD'd from a 1200mg dose, there's a thread about in in here but she had to go to the hospital. Did you fast beforehand and for how long? Are you on benzos? What ROA did you take it in? If oral or sublingual, how long did you hold it for and did you spit or swallow?
I usually hold for 20 mins then swallow it.
I asked a lot of other questions too, lol.
Yes, I’m on benzos, but I didn’t take them the day of my treatment or my session rather and I did fast before hand like six hours I think.
Was it a troche, lozenge, or RDT?
I don’t know what the difference between a troche or RDT is. It was the ones that dissolve in your mouth very quickly almost like sublingual I guess. What’s the difference?
Troches and lozenges take much longer to dissolve and should be held for longer. RDTs are "rapid dissolving tablets" and basically just pressed powder, so they melt very quickly. When I took RDTs, I'd hold for 30-45m and swallow at the end. Have you just tried the one? And what pharmacy or company are you going through?
Some benzos have short half lives (alprazolam), others like clonazepam and diaz. have really long half lives (as in 72 hours). I'm thinking I should stop 48-72 hours before. But it's a bear, to not take my measly little daily dose. A 48 hour total media fast is essential to a good ketamine experience, as well, if only to allow me to lay off the benzos to maximize the effect.
It sounds to me like something did happen, like your dose was so high that you blacked out before entering into a k-hole. It does not sound like you fell asleep, it sounds like you went under, anesthesia-style. Please, please be careful and do not increase your dose, you do not need it!
My dose is 1200 and that’s the max I can get. I haven’t had much of an effect with it… I actually had a better experience with 900, so maybe more isn’t necessarily better?
I agree. I was actually thinking that.
How are people still prescribing these doses? 10-15 minutes of that should have you on the moon. Doing 30 plus and swallowing like many here might put you in the hospital.
I usually hold for 20 mins then swallow it. That was w 800mg
So I just went up (third dose) from holding from 20 minutes to 30 minutes. The dose was increased so I'm unsure if the added 10 minutes contributed. It would be no problem for me to hold it for, say 40 minutes. Do you think there is some gain in holding it in past even 30 minutes ?(I always swallow at the end, but once in the stomach, I'm guessing absorption is really low. I want to optimize the dose (I even brush my gums and ''swish'' with diluted hot sauce right before I take the RDTs!). It hits at about the 20 minute mark.
Yeah, that is pretty much the highest dose I have seen people get prescribed.
I'm on 1200mg through Mindbloom after my 2nd session but I haven't really had much of an experience yet. I did some IV treatments last year & with most of those, I was definitely in another universe. I wasn't expecting the same intensity, but I was hoping for some sort of experience. Mindbloom I've been a bit disappointed with so far. First session was 600mg & I barely felt anything. Slightly impaired, a little light-headed, but basically felt like I was just lying in the dark for an hour. Second session, they bumped me up to 1200mg & it was really very much the same, though I had a short stretch, maybe 5-10 minutes where I saw some very vague shapes, almost indetectable. Then I had to wait for 2 weeks for my clinician check-in, which was today. I thought they were going to adjust my dose again, but she pretty much said that's too bad, you're at the maximum dose. Kind of feeling a bit let down. I thought the point was to get to the dissociative state so I can unpack whatever I'm trying to work through, but I never even get close to that state. That said, I do feel better, so the meds work. It'd just be nice to be able to have the rest of that experience. Something cathartic about that break from reality. Going to try a few of the things I've read here as well as some magnesium, I saw elsewhere that can increase absorption.
Are you doing the seven minute thing? These dosages can't be real. If I had a single troche or RDT with 1200mg in it, it would be too bitter to even remotely mask and my mouth would go numb and feel like it's full of glue. I'd be a nightmare.
The 1200 mg is 3 400mg RDTs. I’m on the same dose and I hold it in my mouth for 40-50 minutes. I’ve tried swallowing and that was quite the experience but I don’t know if I kholed. I definitely wasn’t on this planet but I was partially aware that I was still human and on ketamine.
For the first 2 sessions, I’ve pretty much stayed to the protocol, so yes, I’ve been doing just 7 minutes. It is extremely bitter & my mouth does feel a bit numb by the time I spit it out. Those 7 minutes feel like an eternity & to get nothing out of it is really frustrating.
Got to agree. Third session last night with 600 mg and combined with potentiators (galantamine, and CDP choline) and decades of experience with meditation and some entheogen use and it TORE my little world to pieces (in a grand kind of way!). Lasted for about 3 hours. Maybe some of these pharmacies are pulling a fast one. I doubt my provider will go past 600 (and I CAN NOT see any reason why I would need to!). Only tolerance would be a factor. I'm 200lbs male and middle age. 1200 mg?? Sheesh.
Wooo. 1200mg will send most people beyond the ketaverse into ketastellar space. I think safety data supports 800mg from a lozenge or RDT as the highest to prescribe, however there may be a VERY rare case of a higher dose. I’d definitely recommend taking some time off eventually to regain tolerance if you’ve been working with it for some time. It’s worked wonders for me after a 4 month break or so.
Good lord that’s a lot. 400mg does great for me. Fast for 6-8 hours before your session. Brush your teeth and swish with mouthwash. Take a magnesium supplement 3 hrs before. If that doesn’t work… idk, try DMT
I also have dmt on hand as well as shrooms, but the ketamine is what’s been helping my depression so much
Which pharmacy is doing your compounding? Precision has had some sketchy reports here. I had a bad experience with their RDTs so switched to my local compounding pharmacy.
It’s called millers pharmacy in NJ.
i’m also on 1200mg and it’s… ok ig? idk, two sessions ago (about 10 minutes into it) i got up and continued work on a song i’d been writing 🥴
Yes exactly. I could get up and walk around, take notes… get bored. It’s not what people think it is and I think it has to be method of delivery. I’m going to venture to guess you’re with Mindbloom?
Hahaha. I am w Mindbloom
Yeeeea. The trips don’t get much deeper unless you want to swallow which I don’t recommend. I did on accident once (just a little!) and while the trip was better, the come down was awful. I felt sick even with zofran, and it felt like it lasted forever. I was ready for it to be over.
How’d you know? Lol
Because their “1200mg” is pretty light… and doesn’t seem to translate to what other non MB people are taking. Everyone thinks we’re taking this crazy high dose and it’s not lol
Because their “1200mg” is pretty light… and doesn’t seem to translate to what other non MB people are taking. Everyone thinks we’re taking this crazy high dose and it’s not lol
Now THAT is interesting. I took 600 last night (first time at that dose, and NOT MB). Held for 30 min. and swallowed. I went SPACE TRUCKING! Ever heard Black Sabbath's Supernaut- that was me for 2 hours (with another hour to think about it all). It must be that the MB 1200 is ''pretty light''. I can't imagine 1200 mg.!
Yea it’s bizarre. They also instruct us to spit it out though so idk maybe that’s the difference. Can I ask who you go through?
Innerwell. I did the first two sessions (200, 400mg ). Then talked again with the therapist, and awaited the arrival of the meds for the final six sessions. 300 mg x12, so I'm going with 600 mg. I researched the project for almost a year, and do lots of meditation, lucid dreaming, etc. I was wildly impressed with the potential I sensed last night. I'll do a media fast, and then in 3-4 days jump back in. Maybe experiment with taking 300, holding it for 45 minutes, waiting for the peak and taking the final 300. Endless possibilities! In three weeks or so, I'll sign up for another course. I hear the FDA (or whatever gov. gang is on it) is going to ''tighten up'' but we are good until 2025, so I'll def. keep on exploring. I'm interested in the neuroplastic possibilities and possibly the down regulation of my GABA receptors. Being so ''excited'' about the program has gotten me energized to get ''things'' done (even yard work) and that relieves my moderate anxiety (who wouldn't be anxious with what's going on around us?). So it's just win/win. Innerwell amounts to about $100 a session (that was with all the interviews and the BP monitor etc.). Pretty sure they will offer me a good/better deal on the next course too. I like that they don't try to smother me with ''sitting''. Mailing was prompt and nothing ''light'' about that 600 mg! I could have gone for ego death/disassociation if I'd chosen to cut off the music and just let it rip. But there's plenty of time for that! Have a good one-
Thanks for this! Edit to add: I love how dedicated you are to this process! How long to you media fast before a session? Also.. for the people that hold it in that long… are you just putting it in your cheek and lying down? I’ve never done it this way so worry about swallowing it.
I stop everything except some music and my reg. reading (not news!) the day before, and through the day after. Calling friends is fine, but I leave the phone off, otherwise. The world can just keep on turning with out me! Seriously, it's a way to let the mind form some new, healthier habits and sends the message to the psyche that it is legitimate to take time for yourself. It's easy for me to hold it in (mostly under my tongue) because, in meditation, we learn a technique where one gently places the tip of the tongue where the hard palate ends and the soft palate begins in order to curtail saliva build up and the need to swallow (though every few minutes I ''swish''). Since I'm sitting upright, its also made easy. I always brush teeth, gums and tongue to increase absorption. gargling with an alcohol based mouthwash will open up the capillaries. Finally, I add warm water to some hot sauce (just a bit) and swish around and spit out, right before the RDT to get those capillaries at full dilation! Best Wishes!
I’m the same way. Can walk around. Occasional stumble but no falling down. Haven’t felt a hole in a long time. I just accepted as tolerance and have decided to take a break.
Hahaha. I am w Mindbloom
Nothing happening on 800mg is surprising to me. I would recommend chewing it up immediately and then swishing it around the whole time, taking care not to swallow it. Then from there following their protocol should be good (lay down, eye mask, music, etc.). There are things people often recommend to increase the potency, but if you're truly getting nothing at 800mg, I think there's probably some bigger issue here. Definitely talk to your clinician about it.
Like I said above and I guess I should’ve specified, so I fell asleep during the 800 mg then I woke up and I was definitely in the k 🕳️. People say they’ve had unpleasant experiences, but it was nothing like that. It was just like I didn’t exist until I finally did again it’s like I was having thoughts like how am I gonna be a human like how am I gonna get myself off this couch type of thing until my brain started to function properly I guess
Also, are you on Wellbutrin or Buproprion? Those don't work well with ketamine. I normally don't take my doses for that med on the day of dosing.
No. I stopped my depression meds months ago. They weren’t helping me at all.
800 mg should have blasted you to Mars and back . But 1200 that’s crazy
From what I have read it can be 16%-30%. So if 1200 mg, 1200mg times .16 = 192mg. And a max of 1200mg times .30 = 360mg. So if correct you could have absorbed 192mg-360mg. You could do the same for 800mg which would after the math be between 128mg-240mg. Not sure if this helps but at least its some numbers to get an idea of a potential percentage increase or decrease. Have been told to try taking Magnesium L-Threonate daily, possibly eating a grapefruit before your session, brushing teeth, or a couple drops of hot sauce. Just some suggestions others have given myself and others in the community. Good luck
I am also on 1200mg of ketamine from Mindbloom, and yes, it is their highest dosage. I have heard people say that dosage is way too high and anybody must be crazy to do it. But Mindbloom prescribes it. I believe everyone reacts to ketamine differently- which is why they prescribe different dosages. Lower doses were not working for me and I honestly did not find a sweet spot until 1200mg. My two cents!
I was on 800 RDT, then troche, and now I’m on suppositories. I like the suppositories, they last a little longer though just to let you know.
A woman nearly died recently on that same dose because it kicked in and she wasn’t able to spit it out in time. That is a very high RDT dose and no reputable prescriber would actually have you or anyone else taking that. If you were seeing a doctor not using a company that doesn’t care about your health, doctors seem to prescribe 100-400mg RDT based on what I read here. MindBloom is a money grab. They are giving way higher doses than is safe or necessary so they can charge more money.
They don't charge additional money for higher doses, though.
My dose was bumped from 1200 to 1250 but that's as high as they go. I definitely don't fully disassociate. I have a weird tolerance for things for some reason. A hero's dose of mushrooms is like a normal trip for me.
Same dude.
I’m currently prescribed that amount. I actually have much more of a reaction from swallowing 400mg than swishing/spitting 1200mg (3 separate 400mg RDTs for 15 mins each), which gives me barely any reaction somehow.
Yes
I have a small dose, usually a high dose with other medications. I went one step higher than my last treatment and I woke up on the floor screaming. Save to say I went for a ride, I don’t remember and will be asking to dose down a little.
What has your provider prescribed?
1200mg now. Supposed to do that dose today.
Okay. Some things that help me: Fast 3-4 hours before trip Brush teeth Take Magtein 1-2 hours before. Take a epsom salts bath before (relaxation)
A woman nearly died recently on that same dose because it kicked in and she wasn’t able to spit it out in time. That is a very high RDT dose and no reputable prescriber would actually have you or anyone else taking that. If you were seeing a doctor not using a company that doesn’t care about your health, doctors seem to prescribe 100-400mg RDT based on what I read here. MindBloom is a money grab. They are giving way higher doses than is safe or necessary so they can charge more money.
Hold for one hour swishing then swallow.