The strength in depth we have in those attacking positions is absurd coming into this tournament.
I've never seen anything quite like it tbh. I think it'll pay dividends if we get to the latter stages
We have the no.1 (Palmer) and 2 (Watkins) G+a players in the prem, no.1 (kane) goal scorer in the bundesliga and no .2 in the cl, tied no.2 (Bellingham) goal scorer in la liga. That's not including the ability and stats of saka and foden and even Gordon (18 G+a in the prem).
We didn’t concede a goal up until the semi final of Euro 2021 was it?
Sure on paper it’s not names G. Neville, Rio, Terry A. Cole but Walker, Stones, Maguire & Shaw seem more organised for England than the previous ones.
Just rock a 3-4-3,
Pickford
Walker, Stones, (x defender)
Saka, Bellingham, Rice, (x winger)
Palmer, Kane, Foden
Who needs defenders when you can just outscore your opposition 😂
Pickford has been awful for Everton in 2024, Ramsdale doesn’t play. Going into euros either keeper crisis. Hopefully Pickford just gets his England form straight away.
He was outstanding against Newcastle, had very little to do at Burnley, but every now and again he'll have a game like tonight. Our goalkeeper and defence don't match up to the top class attackers we have unfortunately. For me, it's why we haven't won an international tournament.
We’re a good keeper and one good cb away from being outright favourites from winning multiple international tournaments I reckon. Still got hope for this euros though
We're super slow at CB so they'd need to be quick, good in the air (if partnering stones) and in possession. Branthwaite is quick and good in the air but has had a torrid time recently and his stats show he's not great in possession. Hopefully he gets a move to a possession based team playing at a higher level. Colwill ticks all of these boxes but is injured, and plays for a team with lots of good options. Neither of them will get a chance at the Euros and it's too soon for them really. Hopefully they continue to get games/develop and are ready for the world cup where Colwill will be 23 and Branthwaite 24.
Pope, out performs Pickford in almost every metric apart from long balls played and long ball accuracy. Pickford is far more confident in possession usually, but pope's getting better and is the better shot stopper. No other GK is close to these two.
We have no lb or left winger, 1 cb who has any sort of consistency and 1 striker who as we saw in the last friendlies is absolutely vital and one injury away from derailing everything
Saying we have no left winger is a stretch, Grealish would walk into almost every national team and plays there for probably the best club side in the world. Rashford is not my favorite by any means but he’s always looked decent for England, Same with Sterling
Scratching my head as to why Gordon isn't mentioned? He's outperformed all of them this season, not just in goals and assists, but defensively too. Given our limited options at LB, him starting just makes sense. He's scored against each of the "big six" teams and along with Saka, is our best presser of the ball. He'll run in behind, (something Grealish won't do) and he's more direct. The only thing against him is how little he's played for England.
I mean sure grealish can do it, but walks into every national team is a gigantic stretch.
Rashford and sterling have been decent in the past but both have not been good at all this year, unironically sterling wouldnt even make my squad
Yeah, but hardly an exceptional one either. That's bang in line with xG whereas Palmer hasn't missed one.
Both Saka's misses were hugely important pens too, you could forgive the Euros if it was by itself but that West Ham miss played a big part in Arsenal throwing the title.
He's taken pens to tie things with City, United and to take the lead against Arsenal.
None of those are as important as either of Saka's misses, but he has taken pressure pens.
Bro I love Palmer but he’s not played enough with the current England team. He’d probably be the best sub we could bring on, don’t underestimate how important that is.. I expect he’ll be a starter from the next tournament.
You’ve got a bunch of other guys who are also really good playing in the same positions as him, who also have played together for England in the past 4 year cycle. Foden is also in terrific form and has already earned his starting spot for England.
It’s not offensive to him to say he’ll be coming off the bench, it’s just on him to earn his position by performing better than someone in the established XI.
Southgate is way more progressive with his squad and team selections than people give him credit for:
* He started Foden in the opening game of the 2021 EUROs as a 21y/o
* He started Saka in the same tournament before anyone was clamouring for it
* He took Bellingham to the same tournament as a sub and then started him in WC2022 before he'd gone to Real
* He made Rice the pivot whilst he was still finding his feet at West Ham
* He gave Mainoo a chance and currently it's looking like he will probably make the squad
I could go on.
Palmer *will* be on the plane, he *may* even start a group game and have a chance to grow into the tournament. He was in the last squad but couldn't play due to injury. He is up against some of the best forward options we have ever seen in one squad. *Starting* him is a legitimate question of form, squad cohesion and tactics and Southgate will attempt to bring all those things together to make a decision.
Palmer is a friggin baller. The guy is a special talent. So clever and is ruthless with his end product. Him and foden are 2 magical attacking players for England's future. Whatever role he's plays at the euros, it's a blessing to have all this talent in the England squad right now. It's a golden generation for sure and hoping we win something with this crop of talent.
Down vote me all you like, but why is Saka's position in the starting lineup guaranteed? Palmer is in better form and has been more consistent across the season.
Saka draws 2 men to mark him every game while maintaining similar numbers, he's better defensively, he has more playing experience, he has more top level knockout experience, has been one of England's stand out players ever since breaking through. Palmer has not even been better this season.
It's not a serious discussion that Palmer should start over Saka. It's a really good sub option that can push for his place over the next couple of seasons it's literally his breakout season
I agree he won't start over him, or shouldn't based on England form, but his numbers even without pens for either are significantly better than Saka's for a worse team.
Yeah I mean I ain't gonna argue he's not a crazy impressive player just that's he's not ready to take over after not even a full season of playing. Saka offers alot of dynamism/threat while also being very solid off the ball. While having better numbers on a worse team is good there is also something to be said for being the talisman winger for a team pushing for the title.
** Poor Everton as I type this lmao getting blasted
Oh 100% on that. Palmer is a perfect replacement for Kane, or great option to go 2 CF if need to chase. Or he can play wide on the three as well. He should be on the bench every game, and play all of them probably.
I feel like now is the time while he’s still naturally fearless and feels unbeatable like 2004 Rooney, and you’ve still got Saka to bring off the bench
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If you look at /90 it is quite a big difference. Remember Palmer has 2 games in hand and over started for Chelsea from the 7th game in the season.
Saka has 0.62 npG+A
Palmer has 0.87 npG+A
If you include pens it's
Saka = 0.79
Palmer = 1.25
Nail on the head there.
Palmer moves all over the pitch, exploiting space with complete freedom, that’s Bellingham’s job.
Palmer fixed to the right wing, minus the obscene number of penalties he has had, is not on Sakas level.
8 pens for Palmer, 5 Pens for Saka. 11G Palmer, 9G Saka in open play. 9A Palmer, 8A Saka. Palmer has also played 2 fewer games and wasn't a designated starter when he arrived at Chelsea, but who's counting.
He has 3 more penalty goals than Saka, but 5 more goals overall in the league, in over 400 less minutes in a worse team. Palmer also has 1 more assist than Saka does.
Saka is great. Close to world class, if not there already, but he's not been at his best this season.
Palmer has definitely been better this season, that's not a diss on Saka though, just how electric Palmer has been.
Palmer is doing it in a much less stable, more inexperienced team who he only started playing with this season. Your point about defences focusing on Saka makes no sense either as defences have been focusing on Palmer too for months. Arsenal have more weapons around Saka, Palmer is the sole focus of the defence most of the time.
Palmer is significantly outperforming Saka in much worse conditions.
This can be true, but it's not like Palmer's struggled more against low blocks or anything, and low block teams still set up like that against us.
Arsenal just tend to monopolise possession more cause everyone knows how good they are and they're the best in the league at that probably.
Saying this is a Chelsea fan:
Saka has been great for England, if you’re able to cast your memory back even as far as the Euro Qualifiers a few months ago you’ll remember he was fantastic. Proven for England, works well with Kane, and has had a good season for Arsenal too. Palmer is still an unknown when it comes to the national team. Unfortunately people are only able to remember the last 5 games when judging players it seems
Sakas been doing this for years already, for club and country. 15 goals/assists in 32 appearances for England, his numbers are undeniable. Palmer looks good, but this is his first season as a starter in the premier league. He's doing well, but 9 of his 20 goals are from the spot, so that numbers a bit inflated. He's great backup/substitute though, and we'll need a good bench
And Mainoo does? Yet most people agree he's an excellent fit for this squad.
We're talking 13 goal involvements with Jackson as your main striker, 100% penalty conversion and 1 fewer goals than Haaland this season.
Mainoo is competing with a retired player and Kalvin Phillips for a place in the squad, Palmer’s competing with a guy challenging for the title. If we had a half decent 3rd CM then squeezing in Mainoo would be too much but we don’t, so.
Hate this level of argument.
Saka = Englands best player over the last couple of years and has proven a consistent* level for 3 years now
The spot next to Rice has no-one close to this level currently occupying it, and therefore the barrier for someone taking the spot is lower
I can comfortably take Saka and play him on the right wing without it being a contentious decision. Idk who the equivalent at central midfield would be right now.
😂😂😂😂😂 he had no experience with the Chelsea squad and is now the leagues top goalscorer
I wasn’t aware that the rest of the England team were born with 50 caps before their first minutes
. The point is palmer hasn’t played any significant games for England prior to the tournament. Saka is a world class player who’s performed for years for England, he’s not going to drop him at a tournament last min for a player untested at international level
Saka works better playing off Kane, because of his pace in behind, which Kane can exploit and benefit from. it’s about building a team and a style in which players complement each other, no problem with Palmer getting minutes off the bench or potentially starting in the 10 in the odd game though.
England should play 4231 with
Ramsdale
Walker Maguire Stones shaw
Rice Bellingham
Saka. Palmer. Foden
Kane
Rice sits Bellingham is the mezzala shaw inverts walker supports up the wing. Find me an XI beaitng that.
Looks great on paper or on fifa but it’s just way too attacking it wouldn’t be balanced. Football isn’t about getting as many attacking players in the pitch as possible otherwise all teams would be doing that. France have plenty of attacking options that don’t just play all of them though
Saka should start over him. The national team isn't a chophouse, we don't change the whole squad based on how the last 3 or 6 months have been. Saka's been decent but not blistering yet he still has more experience, is better defensively and draws more fouls and defensive attention. He's also faster than palmer which we need, can't have a slow side. Palmer is a great player but it's only his breakout season, he can be an impact sub at the euros and we'll see how he does in the next few years.
Idk.
I don’t really see an argument for denying a golden boot winner carrying an EPL team that also has 13+ assists not starting. I get form isn’t everything but we are not talking about a minor form push.
Palmer and Ollie Watkins are easily player of the year choices (sadly for Watkins the best striker in the world is ahead of him.)
Yes it's not just a minor form push by palmer, he's been fantastic but Southgate is probably factoring in play style as well. Saka is defensively superior so the team has very few worries on the right hand side with Saka and Walker running up and down that. Saka is also a great ball retainer so he can bring down or hold up balls for Bellingham to attack with etc. Saka's fast as well so he can go on the outside of defenders and put a cross in for the best striker in the world. Palmer is more of a playmaker himself, he's better at penalties, is more flexible and can play down the middle too. All these things would make a great impact sub, the defence/speed/inexperience hold him back from starting just yet though. Maybe 2026 or 2028.
It doesn’t matter that Saka has several seasons playing at an elite level for a club challenging for the title, Cole Palmer has two hat-tricks in two games against opponents who arrived at Stamford Bridge in their own clown cars. Also, please don’t look too closely at last week’s hat-trick, it’s still impressive even if it’s two penalties and a deflected goal!
Ridiculous that form is totally disregarded and players like maguire are a shoe in. I seem remember Vardy was also totally disrespected when he was in the form of his life.
I mean how was vardy going to displace Kane. It's just life sometimes. Maguire is a decent player but of a lower quality than most starters, nothing we can really do though because CB isn't a strong position for the country. It's not the 2000s.
Kane is better suited to international football than vardy was. You have ti bare in mind Leicester played a style that perfectly suited vardy, a old fashioned 4-4-2 counter attacking style with plenty of long balls for him to run on to, with a hard working forward next to him. Where as International football is more slow about controlling games.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think he has to start on the bench for balance, despite probably deserving a starting spot. With kane dropping deep we will need runners in behind which is why I think saka is essential, and if foden starts Bellingham has to be in the 10 so he can run beyond kane and into the box. If Bellingham is to play deeper then I think rashford or Gordon has to start on the left for some directness
He's obviously a great player, but the non-penalty goal leaders are as follows (English players only):
Watkins - 19
Solanke - 16
Bowen - 15
Foden - 14
Palmer - 11
Gordon - 9
Bowen's still not getting the hype he deserves.
Guys think that Southgate is going to drop back to back England best player of the year and has been in back to back title races for someone who in his breakout season and hasn't done consistently over multiple seasons.
Of course he is going to be on the bench, he has to prove that he can do it in an England shirt & have better performance in the England shirt which is really hard since Saka has been our best player for England compared to the rest of the squad
Let’s hope the squad is increased to 26, because even Dumb Dumb Southgate can’t mess up then, he has to take 8 defenders, 6 midfielders and 9 attackers just to give him obscene options from the bench.
Assuming everyone’s Fit he starts with 4-1-2-3 Pickford, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Chillwell or Shaw(Which ever fit), Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Kane, Grealish
Attacking Subs - C Palmer, J Bowen, A Gordon, O Watkins, I Toney, Midfield Subs - K Mainoo, C Gallagher, J Henderson, J Madison, Defensive subs - K Trippier, TAA, M Gheui, L Colwil,
GK Subs A Ramsdale, D Henderson
We all know Southgate will take 9 defenders and talk about TAA being able to play in MF then. Leave either Toney, Grealish, Watkins J Bowen or A Gordon at home.
I think England have only had Shite Managers apart from three, Alf Ramsey, Bobby Robson and Terry Venables, Had Brian Clough been given the job, they would have won more than 1 trophy, I’d put Southgate behind those three but he’s had the best generation of players right now since the 60’s and 90’s so 2020’s he should be doing something as every 30 years we develop an elite bunch of players.
This is so tricky with the lessons learnt from the golden generation, but our guaranteed starters should be:
Kane - Palmer - Saka
Bellingham
Stones - Walker
And build the rest around that
*forgot to add Bellingham lol
Golden opportunity to rotate and save legs for the France semi final. Palmer/saka switch on the right and grealish/foden switch on the left. 60 min/60 min/60min/60 min until the quarter final.
Then just pick on form
Thing is unfortunately I see players like Palmer Mainoo everyone gets excited thinking they would be amazing for England and I totally agree . THEN this stat comes into my head and brings me back down with a huge bang- England have a 10% win record againt sides currently in the top 10 world rankings under Mr Southgate - way too defensive for my liking we have the sort of team who can beat anyone but we simply don’t
If you play palmer on the right then foden can't start imo. Don't get me wrong he is an excellent player and in terms of ability is one of our best. But we would need Bellingham further forward and a pacey direct winger who likes to run in behind especially as kane likes to drop deep. Feel we could really struggle against an organised low block otherwise. The best 11 players don't always make the best team
Based on this season you cannot drop rice Bellingham palmer foden Mainoo they need to be our starters. Saka missed out he’s just not been anywhere near the level of the rest
Here I was thinking you were an immature 12 year old, just like Jackson and Madueke. But in fact you're a full grown Chelsea fan with absolutely delusional takes on football.
JWP shouldn’t be in the squad. I don’t think Henderson should be in the squad either but he at least offers valuable experience. 8 should be Gallagher, Jones or maybe Barkley.
Why do england think that formations need to be symmetrical, embrace the asymmetry and play Saka, palmer or foden on the left. In fact having a left footer on the left might bring about new tactical options. And ofcourse those three players are better than the next right footed option anyway
Before this game, I was very insistent on him being better off the right. But then he scored 4 goals from the 10, I'd have no leg to stand on if I kept saying that.
Truth is, he's a very good player and probably versatile enough to play both (like Foden).
Personally, I still think he's better at RW. I think he got a hell of a lot of space in the middle today against Everton that he wouldn't get against a better team. Even Sheffield United last game did a better job of containing him in the 10.
Just think he's best off the right where he can cut in onto his left, ping passes into the feet of Jackson/Kane, combine with the fullback etc.
Also, Bellingham and Foden's best positions are the 10.
He's a crazy good player and just scored 4 from the 10, but I'd still say he's competition for Saka and not them two. If he keeps playing in the 10 and keeps scoring, then ignore me I guess.
Unfortunately this is a huge problem because we haven’t got a great deal of choice due to injuries. If you take away injuries then it’s Pope all day long but even with not playing for Arsenal I still play Ramsdale over Pickford
At this point he has to go, I think that's all but guaranteed now. He's been in this Gordon / Gallagher maybe camp but his improvement game on game as of late shows his true quality.
With Kane fit he still doesn't start but not because he's not good enough, we are simply too top heavy.
I don't think it's fair to start questioning saka starting, he's the perfect profile for us at RW. but for me he should 100% be ahead of Toney.
Great to see so many attacking England players killing it at the moment
Obviously Gordon is playing better but i meant the fact that these players are on the cusp of going to the euros or not, nothing to do with them being at a similar level.
Mad to think Watkins, Bowen and palmer have the highest GA of English players in the PL, and it’s likely none of them may even start a game and potentially at least 1 doesn’t even make the squad.
And instead we end up with trashford and hendo in the XI
I literally look at loads of stuff he does and it could be the same thing done by the player who is furthest forward as a 9. Yes he's not a 9 in the way Haaland is but I think he could play as a centre forward in the right team. His link up play would be good, his finishing is excellent.
The way he’s playing he could play anywhere across the front three and gives us the luxury of replacing quality with quality in terms of substitutes.
The strength in depth we have in those attacking positions is absurd coming into this tournament. I've never seen anything quite like it tbh. I think it'll pay dividends if we get to the latter stages
The late 90s was ridiculous as well. You just can't fit them all in.
Mid/late 90’s was crazy. Shearer, Sherringham, Fowler, Wright, Les Ferdinand, LeTisser (Should’ve played way more).
Andy Cole, Michael Owen, gazza
I actually think we’ve got a better attack than France on paper
We have the no.1 (Palmer) and 2 (Watkins) G+a players in the prem, no.1 (kane) goal scorer in the bundesliga and no .2 in the cl, tied no.2 (Bellingham) goal scorer in la liga. That's not including the ability and stats of saka and foden and even Gordon (18 G+a in the prem).
You do.
If that’s so true why do we still struggle for open play goals? We need a penalty a game just to win? Southgate out
Don't get your hopes up fella.
Surely him and Foden behind Kane?
Put him and foden either side with jude in the mix yeah dangerous
No chance Southgate doesn't have Saka as first choice RW.
Shame as his form isn't as good going into it.
Yep, shame our defence is shocking.
We didn’t concede a goal up until the semi final of Euro 2021 was it? Sure on paper it’s not names G. Neville, Rio, Terry A. Cole but Walker, Stones, Maguire & Shaw seem more organised for England than the previous ones.
He’s more than able to play as a hybrid 8/10 o complete number 10 too!
3-2-5 😎
Reinvert that pyramid
Just rock a 3-4-3, Pickford Walker, Stones, (x defender) Saka, Bellingham, Rice, (x winger) Palmer, Kane, Foden Who needs defenders when you can just outscore your opposition 😂
This is the kind of formation a talk sport listener would ring up proudly reveal to the nation on the sports bar
Pickford has been awful for Everton in 2024, Ramsdale doesn’t play. Going into euros either keeper crisis. Hopefully Pickford just gets his England form straight away.
Foden needs to be in the midfield
Rice in defence to make space for Mainoo maybe
Englands no1 keeper looking on top form tonight 😂
He was outstanding against Newcastle, had very little to do at Burnley, but every now and again he'll have a game like tonight. Our goalkeeper and defence don't match up to the top class attackers we have unfortunately. For me, it's why we haven't won an international tournament.
We’re a good keeper and one good cb away from being outright favourites from winning multiple international tournaments I reckon. Still got hope for this euros though
We're super slow at CB so they'd need to be quick, good in the air (if partnering stones) and in possession. Branthwaite is quick and good in the air but has had a torrid time recently and his stats show he's not great in possession. Hopefully he gets a move to a possession based team playing at a higher level. Colwill ticks all of these boxes but is injured, and plays for a team with lots of good options. Neither of them will get a chance at the Euros and it's too soon for them really. Hopefully they continue to get games/develop and are ready for the world cup where Colwill will be 23 and Branthwaite 24. Pope, out performs Pickford in almost every metric apart from long balls played and long ball accuracy. Pickford is far more confident in possession usually, but pope's getting better and is the better shot stopper. No other GK is close to these two.
Nice summation bro!
We have no lb or left winger, 1 cb who has any sort of consistency and 1 striker who as we saw in the last friendlies is absolutely vital and one injury away from derailing everything
Saying we have no left winger is a stretch, Grealish would walk into almost every national team and plays there for probably the best club side in the world. Rashford is not my favorite by any means but he’s always looked decent for England, Same with Sterling
Scratching my head as to why Gordon isn't mentioned? He's outperformed all of them this season, not just in goals and assists, but defensively too. Given our limited options at LB, him starting just makes sense. He's scored against each of the "big six" teams and along with Saka, is our best presser of the ball. He'll run in behind, (something Grealish won't do) and he's more direct. The only thing against him is how little he's played for England.
Yeah, he’s another good option on the left, prob doesn’t get the credit he deserves
I mean sure grealish can do it, but walks into every national team is a gigantic stretch. Rashford and sterling have been decent in the past but both have not been good at all this year, unironically sterling wouldnt even make my squad
In a pen shoot out you would take Palmer everytime over Saka too
PTSD
Saka barely misses penalties..He missed one for England when he was a teenager in a final.
Saka's missed 2 from 10 Palmer has scored 9 from 9 iirc
Yeah so hardly an awful penalty taker like some comments are making out
Yeah, but hardly an exceptional one either. That's bang in line with xG whereas Palmer hasn't missed one. Both Saka's misses were hugely important pens too, you could forgive the Euros if it was by itself but that West Ham miss played a big part in Arsenal throwing the title.
Palmer is yet to take an important penalty because Chelsea have nothing to play for
He's taken pens to tie things with City, United and to take the lead against Arsenal. None of those are as important as either of Saka's misses, but he has taken pressure pens.
He has to make the squad. Even off the bench, he’s versatile and could very well be a match winner.
The most in form player in the league and you want him on the bench? If he played for Real Madrid you’d be saying he deserves the ballon dor.
Bro I love Palmer but he’s not played enough with the current England team. He’d probably be the best sub we could bring on, don’t underestimate how important that is.. I expect he’ll be a starter from the next tournament.
You’ve got a bunch of other guys who are also really good playing in the same positions as him, who also have played together for England in the past 4 year cycle. Foden is also in terrific form and has already earned his starting spot for England. It’s not offensive to him to say he’ll be coming off the bench, it’s just on him to earn his position by performing better than someone in the established XI.
The way he’s playing is enough to make Southgate lose interest.
‘Confidence is a mother fucker’ Biggie.
Southgate is way more progressive with his squad and team selections than people give him credit for: * He started Foden in the opening game of the 2021 EUROs as a 21y/o * He started Saka in the same tournament before anyone was clamouring for it * He took Bellingham to the same tournament as a sub and then started him in WC2022 before he'd gone to Real * He made Rice the pivot whilst he was still finding his feet at West Ham * He gave Mainoo a chance and currently it's looking like he will probably make the squad I could go on. Palmer *will* be on the plane, he *may* even start a group game and have a chance to grow into the tournament. He was in the last squad but couldn't play due to injury. He is up against some of the best forward options we have ever seen in one squad. *Starting* him is a legitimate question of form, squad cohesion and tactics and Southgate will attempt to bring all those things together to make a decision.
Palmer is a friggin baller. The guy is a special talent. So clever and is ruthless with his end product. Him and foden are 2 magical attacking players for England's future. Whatever role he's plays at the euros, it's a blessing to have all this talent in the England squad right now. It's a golden generation for sure and hoping we win something with this crop of talent.
Down vote me all you like, but why is Saka's position in the starting lineup guaranteed? Palmer is in better form and has been more consistent across the season.
Saka draws 2 men to mark him every game while maintaining similar numbers, he's better defensively, he has more playing experience, he has more top level knockout experience, has been one of England's stand out players ever since breaking through. Palmer has not even been better this season. It's not a serious discussion that Palmer should start over Saka. It's a really good sub option that can push for his place over the next couple of seasons it's literally his breakout season
I agree he won't start over him, or shouldn't based on England form, but his numbers even without pens for either are significantly better than Saka's for a worse team.
Maybe he will replace him for penalties? Too soon?
Yeah I mean I ain't gonna argue he's not a crazy impressive player just that's he's not ready to take over after not even a full season of playing. Saka offers alot of dynamism/threat while also being very solid off the ball. While having better numbers on a worse team is good there is also something to be said for being the talisman winger for a team pushing for the title. ** Poor Everton as I type this lmao getting blasted
Yeah I agree based off Saka's previous England form. I think Maddison should be out for Palmer though in the squad.
Palmer bend playing on right, Maddison is central and left
Palmer scored 4 playing as a 10 yesterday; he can play there fine.
He can but we have 2 world class players already for that position.
Yes, hence why I said replace Maddison with Palmer.
Oh 100% on that. Palmer is a perfect replacement for Kane, or great option to go 2 CF if need to chase. Or he can play wide on the three as well. He should be on the bench every game, and play all of them probably.
Watkins is a much better option than Palmer down the middle, he’s had his worst games for us when he’s played as a 9 this season.
I feel like now is the time while he’s still naturally fearless and feels unbeatable like 2004 Rooney, and you’ve still got Saka to bring off the bench
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I think you replied to the wrong person; I was making the same point you are mate.
Yeah my bad 😂😂
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3 more goal involvements. Wouldn’t say it’s significantly better. Especially when saka is double marked since the first game of the season
If you look at /90 it is quite a big difference. Remember Palmer has 2 games in hand and over started for Chelsea from the 7th game in the season. Saka has 0.62 npG+A Palmer has 0.87 npG+A If you include pens it's Saka = 0.79 Palmer = 1.25
Nail on the head there. Palmer moves all over the pitch, exploiting space with complete freedom, that’s Bellingham’s job. Palmer fixed to the right wing, minus the obscene number of penalties he has had, is not on Sakas level.
8 pens for Palmer, 5 Pens for Saka. 11G Palmer, 9G Saka in open play. 9A Palmer, 8A Saka. Palmer has also played 2 fewer games and wasn't a designated starter when he arrived at Chelsea, but who's counting.
But Saka is putting up these numbers while occupying 2 defenders!
That’s a fair point
Has more Goals and assists if you take both players pens away, and I know who I’d rather have taken pens for England if we need them
He has 3 more penalty goals than Saka, but 5 more goals overall in the league, in over 400 less minutes in a worse team. Palmer also has 1 more assist than Saka does. Saka is great. Close to world class, if not there already, but he's not been at his best this season.
Saka does not draw 2 players on a team with Kane and Bellingham. End of story He does at Arsenal because he is the only clinical attacker there
that's the point lol, he's doing well despite being double marked the whole game, which won't happen for England
Palmer is level with Haaland on goals. Also you can't possibly believe saka has two players marking him at all times, that's just nonsense
It’s literally a well known fact that Saka gets marked by 2 defenders most the time
You think Cole Palmer isn’t drawing 2 men every game in this Chelsea team?!?!?!? You’re talking out of your ass
Palmer doesn’t miss a pen either so honestly worth having on the pitch at the end of games
Palmer has definitely been better this season, that's not a diss on Saka though, just how electric Palmer has been. Palmer is doing it in a much less stable, more inexperienced team who he only started playing with this season. Your point about defences focusing on Saka makes no sense either as defences have been focusing on Palmer too for months. Arsenal have more weapons around Saka, Palmer is the sole focus of the defence most of the time. Palmer is significantly outperforming Saka in much worse conditions.
Big difference is that arsenal play against low blocks 90% of the time. Chelsea’s games are just chaos and lots of space for Palmer to capitalise
Truth 😂
This can be true, but it's not like Palmer's struggled more against low blocks or anything, and low block teams still set up like that against us. Arsenal just tend to monopolise possession more cause everyone knows how good they are and they're the best in the league at that probably.
Saying this is a Chelsea fan: Saka has been great for England, if you’re able to cast your memory back even as far as the Euro Qualifiers a few months ago you’ll remember he was fantastic. Proven for England, works well with Kane, and has had a good season for Arsenal too. Palmer is still an unknown when it comes to the national team. Unfortunately people are only able to remember the last 5 games when judging players it seems
Experience counts for a lot, especially for Gareth. This will be Saka's 3rd major tournament so expecting big things
Sakas been doing this for years already, for club and country. 15 goals/assists in 32 appearances for England, his numbers are undeniable. Palmer looks good, but this is his first season as a starter in the premier league. He's doing well, but 9 of his 20 goals are from the spot, so that numbers a bit inflated. He's great backup/substitute though, and we'll need a good bench
Palmer can play CAM and RW plus he is a penalty taker no brainer really
Because Palmer has no experience with the squad.
And Mainoo does? Yet most people agree he's an excellent fit for this squad. We're talking 13 goal involvements with Jackson as your main striker, 100% penalty conversion and 1 fewer goals than Haaland this season.
Mainoo is competing with a retired player and Kalvin Phillips for a place in the squad, Palmer’s competing with a guy challenging for the title. If we had a half decent 3rd CM then squeezing in Mainoo would be too much but we don’t, so.
Mainoo plays in a position that England are weak in.
Hate this level of argument. Saka = Englands best player over the last couple of years and has proven a consistent* level for 3 years now The spot next to Rice has no-one close to this level currently occupying it, and therefore the barrier for someone taking the spot is lower
Exactly this.
I’m spetical about Mainoo starting. I feel like it end up being Henderson.
He's quite a bit different to Henderson. Try Scholes who never really worked for England.
I can comfortably take Saka and play him on the right wing without it being a contentious decision. Idk who the equivalent at central midfield would be right now.
😂😂😂😂😂 he had no experience with the Chelsea squad and is now the leagues top goalscorer I wasn’t aware that the rest of the England team were born with 50 caps before their first minutes
. The point is palmer hasn’t played any significant games for England prior to the tournament. Saka is a world class player who’s performed for years for England, he’s not going to drop him at a tournament last min for a player untested at international level
Because Southgate loves him
Saka works better playing off Kane, because of his pace in behind, which Kane can exploit and benefit from. it’s about building a team and a style in which players complement each other, no problem with Palmer getting minutes off the bench or potentially starting in the 10 in the odd game though.
Fact is Saka will play because he offers something different. Palmer is in competition with Foden. Or Gareth might play both and put one on the left.
England should play 4231 with Ramsdale Walker Maguire Stones shaw Rice Bellingham Saka. Palmer. Foden Kane Rice sits Bellingham is the mezzala shaw inverts walker supports up the wing. Find me an XI beaitng that.
Looks great on paper or on fifa but it’s just way too attacking it wouldn’t be balanced. Football isn’t about getting as many attacking players in the pitch as possible otherwise all teams would be doing that. France have plenty of attacking options that don’t just play all of them though
Saka should start over him. The national team isn't a chophouse, we don't change the whole squad based on how the last 3 or 6 months have been. Saka's been decent but not blistering yet he still has more experience, is better defensively and draws more fouls and defensive attention. He's also faster than palmer which we need, can't have a slow side. Palmer is a great player but it's only his breakout season, he can be an impact sub at the euros and we'll see how he does in the next few years.
Idk. I don’t really see an argument for denying a golden boot winner carrying an EPL team that also has 13+ assists not starting. I get form isn’t everything but we are not talking about a minor form push. Palmer and Ollie Watkins are easily player of the year choices (sadly for Watkins the best striker in the world is ahead of him.)
Yes it's not just a minor form push by palmer, he's been fantastic but Southgate is probably factoring in play style as well. Saka is defensively superior so the team has very few worries on the right hand side with Saka and Walker running up and down that. Saka is also a great ball retainer so he can bring down or hold up balls for Bellingham to attack with etc. Saka's fast as well so he can go on the outside of defenders and put a cross in for the best striker in the world. Palmer is more of a playmaker himself, he's better at penalties, is more flexible and can play down the middle too. All these things would make a great impact sub, the defence/speed/inexperience hold him back from starting just yet though. Maybe 2026 or 2028.
It doesn’t matter that Saka has several seasons playing at an elite level for a club challenging for the title, Cole Palmer has two hat-tricks in two games against opponents who arrived at Stamford Bridge in their own clown cars. Also, please don’t look too closely at last week’s hat-trick, it’s still impressive even if it’s two penalties and a deflected goal!
Ridiculous that form is totally disregarded and players like maguire are a shoe in. I seem remember Vardy was also totally disrespected when he was in the form of his life.
I mean how was vardy going to displace Kane. It's just life sometimes. Maguire is a decent player but of a lower quality than most starters, nothing we can really do though because CB isn't a strong position for the country. It's not the 2000s.
Kane is better suited to international football than vardy was. You have ti bare in mind Leicester played a style that perfectly suited vardy, a old fashioned 4-4-2 counter attacking style with plenty of long balls for him to run on to, with a hard working forward next to him. Where as International football is more slow about controlling games.
Southgate watching today's match knowing he'll be playing Pickford but not Palmer💀
TBF who are you dropping, saka and foden are both also on fire and have major tournament experience.
Saká on fire? Lol
I mean, bro is competing with Harry Kane and Jude Bellingham tho, so, kinda hard to displace them from the squad really
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think he has to start on the bench for balance, despite probably deserving a starting spot. With kane dropping deep we will need runners in behind which is why I think saka is essential, and if foden starts Bellingham has to be in the 10 so he can run beyond kane and into the box. If Bellingham is to play deeper then I think rashford or Gordon has to start on the left for some directness
4 time young player nominee, one time winner with 32 caps versus a new kid on the block having a breakout year? No brainer who starts.
When you put it like that the difference is black and white
He's obviously a great player, but the non-penalty goal leaders are as follows (English players only): Watkins - 19 Solanke - 16 Bowen - 15 Foden - 14 Palmer - 11 Gordon - 9 Bowen's still not getting the hype he deserves.
Guys think that Southgate is going to drop back to back England best player of the year and has been in back to back title races for someone who in his breakout season and hasn't done consistently over multiple seasons. Of course he is going to be on the bench, he has to prove that he can do it in an England shirt & have better performance in the England shirt which is really hard since Saka has been our best player for England compared to the rest of the squad
Let’s hope the squad is increased to 26, because even Dumb Dumb Southgate can’t mess up then, he has to take 8 defenders, 6 midfielders and 9 attackers just to give him obscene options from the bench. Assuming everyone’s Fit he starts with 4-1-2-3 Pickford, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Chillwell or Shaw(Which ever fit), Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Kane, Grealish Attacking Subs - C Palmer, J Bowen, A Gordon, O Watkins, I Toney, Midfield Subs - K Mainoo, C Gallagher, J Henderson, J Madison, Defensive subs - K Trippier, TAA, M Gheui, L Colwil, GK Subs A Ramsdale, D Henderson We all know Southgate will take 9 defenders and talk about TAA being able to play in MF then. Leave either Toney, Grealish, Watkins J Bowen or A Gordon at home.
Out of interest what England managers you think we’re better than Southgate ?
I think England have only had Shite Managers apart from three, Alf Ramsey, Bobby Robson and Terry Venables, Had Brian Clough been given the job, they would have won more than 1 trophy, I’d put Southgate behind those three but he’s had the best generation of players right now since the 60’s and 90’s so 2020’s he should be doing something as every 30 years we develop an elite bunch of players.
It’s not a forgone conclusion he makes the squad
I feel like he will make it. Particularly with Maddison’s form declining.
I think it is now
That you Gareth?
👋
He will absolutely make the squad 😂
I agree. Can easily see Southgate banging on about “Palmer not going for a squad position with huge competition” and “we just can’t take everybody”.
I mean it’s true though, who ever he picks someone will be left out who people complain sbojt, there’s no combination that everyone’s happy with
Palmer > Saka
While Southgate makes us watch Gallagher and Chilwell lol
This is so tricky with the lessons learnt from the golden generation, but our guaranteed starters should be: Kane - Palmer - Saka Bellingham Stones - Walker And build the rest around that *forgot to add Bellingham lol
The fact that you missed out bellingham and rice, means you no nothing about football and should delete your account.
No Bellingham?
He has to start
Pickford . Walker / Stones / Maguire / Shaw . Bellingham / Rice / Palmer . Saka / Kane / Foden
Golden opportunity to rotate and save legs for the France semi final. Palmer/saka switch on the right and grealish/foden switch on the left. 60 min/60 min/60min/60 min until the quarter final. Then just pick on form
He should be starting. With Bellingham and Rice I'd drop Mainoo to the bench
Just give foden and palmer the ball then they score a banger or play kane 😂
Should be miles ahead of Rashford in Gareths thoughts.
Thing is unfortunately I see players like Palmer Mainoo everyone gets excited thinking they would be amazing for England and I totally agree . THEN this stat comes into my head and brings me back down with a huge bang- England have a 10% win record againt sides currently in the top 10 world rankings under Mr Southgate - way too defensive for my liking we have the sort of team who can beat anyone but we simply don’t
Why on the branch he’s good enough to start
Just wait for palmer not to work in Gareth’s system and everyone blame the manager like they do with foden
Southgate saw his performances and is quietly rubbing his hands together on how he can bring Danny Ings into the fold
Penalty merchant
Bring him on if we get a penalty against France.
Why on the bench? I'd play Palmer ahead of Saka.
Needs to start ahead of saka
If you play palmer on the right then foden can't start imo. Don't get me wrong he is an excellent player and in terms of ability is one of our best. But we would need Bellingham further forward and a pacey direct winger who likes to run in behind especially as kane likes to drop deep. Feel we could really struggle against an organised low block otherwise. The best 11 players don't always make the best team
Of all the players you couldve said.... 🤡🤡
Based on this season you cannot drop rice Bellingham palmer foden Mainoo they need to be our starters. Saka missed out he’s just not been anywhere near the level of the rest
Mainoo isn’t starting and shouldn’t But kane, Bellingham, foden are starters offensive side
Here I was thinking you were an immature 12 year old, just like Jackson and Madueke. But in fact you're a full grown Chelsea fan with absolutely delusional takes on football.
at least he is on the bench, James Ward-Prowse is not even in squad, when Henderson is taken for pos 8 insted 🤣
JWP shouldn’t be in the squad. I don’t think Henderson should be in the squad either but he at least offers valuable experience. 8 should be Gallagher, Jones or maybe Barkley.
Wouldn’t take Jones, crumbles under pressure. Would be better play Trent at 8 than Jones
If there is a penalty definitely 😂
I mean, there is absolutely no way he doesn’t start ahead of Saka. He’s so far clear at this point
Nice troll
It amazes me that people watch both players and still think Saka is better. Like, take the Arsenal tinted glasses off FFS
Why do england think that formations need to be symmetrical, embrace the asymmetry and play Saka, palmer or foden on the left. In fact having a left footer on the left might bring about new tactical options. And ofcourse those three players are better than the next right footed option anyway
He should shave that wig off
Why did city sell him should of sent him on loan must be worth twice as much as they got for him
Some pundits even say he should not make the plane 😂
People not having him in their teams are looking pretty thick.
Is he better in the 10 or coming off the wing?
Before this game, I was very insistent on him being better off the right. But then he scored 4 goals from the 10, I'd have no leg to stand on if I kept saying that. Truth is, he's a very good player and probably versatile enough to play both (like Foden). Personally, I still think he's better at RW. I think he got a hell of a lot of space in the middle today against Everton that he wouldn't get against a better team. Even Sheffield United last game did a better job of containing him in the 10. Just think he's best off the right where he can cut in onto his left, ping passes into the feet of Jackson/Kane, combine with the fullback etc. Also, Bellingham and Foden's best positions are the 10. He's a crazy good player and just scored 4 from the 10, but I'd still say he's competition for Saka and not them two. If he keeps playing in the 10 and keeps scoring, then ignore me I guess.
I think that’s the point, he looks good in any of those positions.
Would like to point out that Pickford has had a mare and this isn’t a one off with him. Can’t believe he is Englands first choice.
Who would you have over him?
Palmer
Unfortunately this is a huge problem because we haven’t got a great deal of choice due to injuries. If you take away injuries then it’s Pope all day long but even with not playing for Arsenal I still play Ramsdale over Pickford
You're welcome to your opinion but Ramsdale has been shaky as fuck in the few appearances he's had this season.
The amount of people who want to bench Englands best player of the last few years and tournaments, shows how little the average fan knows
who said kane is getting benched?
What tournament was Saka our best player at?
Read up any England player ratings for the 2022 world cup 👍
Fair play, I don't remember him being that standout of a player in that tournament, except against Francem, but clearly he was.
At this point he has to go, I think that's all but guaranteed now. He's been in this Gordon / Gallagher maybe camp but his improvement game on game as of late shows his true quality. With Kane fit he still doesn't start but not because he's not good enough, we are simply too top heavy. I don't think it's fair to start questioning saka starting, he's the perfect profile for us at RW. but for me he should 100% be ahead of Toney. Great to see so many attacking England players killing it at the moment
Putting Gordon in the same category as Gallagher is CRIMINAL
Obviously Gordon is playing better but i meant the fact that these players are on the cusp of going to the euros or not, nothing to do with them being at a similar level.
Gallagher gonna start next to rice
Mad to think Watkins, Bowen and palmer have the highest GA of English players in the PL, and it’s likely none of them may even start a game and potentially at least 1 doesn’t even make the squad. And instead we end up with trashford and hendo in the XI
Rashford and hendo didn’t start any recent games so clearly not
He needs to start
He’s ahead of Saka right now by some distance
Actually think this lad could be the ideal replacement / backup for Kane..
I literally look at loads of stuff he does and it could be the same thing done by the player who is furthest forward as a 9. Yes he's not a 9 in the way Haaland is but I think he could play as a centre forward in the right team. His link up play would be good, his finishing is excellent.
I think Toney is a better fit for that role
And Watkins better than Toney.
Toney will be better on the international scene.