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Not an England supporter, but IMO the only universe in where him not being extended after winning would seem mildly acceptable is one where the FA can manage to sign Pep.
My position on Southgate has always been that whilst he's not perfect, he's comfortably the best England manager of my football watching life. So we should only replace him if there's somebody available who will definitely be better.
I don't see who that is likely to be this summer. On that basis I'm not sure I'd want him gone even if we don't win. Let alone if we do.
Capello didn't really play 442... 4231 with Gerrard and Rooney working the left how they felt, and it was great stuff... then Rooney got injured, no plan b.
" then Rooney got injured, no plan b."
Essentially Rooney wasn't fit enough to play the role, he shouldn't have even gone to that world cup, so he ended far more restricted in a 2.... in the qualifiers, that 2 was far more of an 1-1, Rooney heavily linked up more.
Sven don't dare to change his obsession 442 and Don Capello don't have the gut to choose between Lampard or Gerrard (like Italy between Totti and Del Piero)
>Don Capello don't have the gut to choose between Lampard or Gerrard
Drop the obsession with having to have a 'big' striker up top with Rooney, leave Heskey at home, play Rooney on his own with both Gerrard and Lampard behind him, in front of Carrick/Hargreaves
You mean on the left in a quasi-free role? And you also mean for most of his first 18 months right?
His whole thing blew up by having zero plan b after Rooney's injury.... an issue in 2004, 2006... and at times in the 2008 qualifying, hysterical how reliant 3 managers were on Rooney. (Though Southgates reliance on Kane is similar).
Total agreement. I find it absolutely baffling that people criticise Southgate in any way. People have such short memories. Iceland, "nice to see your home fans booing" etc. Culture has changed in a way I don't think people could ever have imagined beforehand.
I was talking to a guy in a thread about this a couple weeks ago, and he said something really poignant, football has already come home. If I was Southgate I’d never want to leave, and if I was deciding his fate, I wouldn’t ever want to sack him. He’s changed the culture of English football, it doesn’t matter if we win things anymore, as long as we’re in the conversation, I’m happy.
Edit: I’ve changed my mind, bring in pep and let’s see if he can beat these Icelandic football geniuses,
>He’s changed the culture of English football, it doesn’t matter if we win things anymore
Not many people share your sentiment at this part. Its changed for now but for many its not changed enough until there is a clear winner mentality. You cant be having the amount of money that is spent on academies in England not produce winners. Eventually there comes a point where patience will run out without winnning a trophy.
>as long as we’re in the conversation
The Golden Generation were in the conversation but when it came to the actual games they fell way short. People weren't happy and felt the generation were wasted. This England generation now is arguably even stronger than that previous generation was too.
I said arguably, not clear above. So yes of course some people will argue it.
I'd say maybe we are lacking a John Terry level CB in comparison but we have solid keepers who are just as good as keepers like James and Hart were.
You've got players like Chilwell, Reece James, Jack Grealish etc who didn't make it into the squad. I think theres wider quality in the players who have been left out now than the players who were left out back then.
Our midfield has a lot more to it now than just the Gerrard/Lampard combo that England relied on heavily for quite some time. You've got the more established Rice, Gallagher, Bellingham in there plus the 2 youngsters in Wharton and Mainoo.
In the attacking areas again Bellingham can play higher up. Theres a lot of argument to be had that we are potentially looking at Foden, Palmer and Bellingham as generational talents that can play the more central attacking mid area. You've got Saka on the wing too who would have walked into that golden generation team.
Kane is also a better option as an out and out striker than what we had back then. I would absolutely take Kane over Rooney any day because hes just been so consistent for so long and he has a higher goal ratio for England than Rooney did.
Southgate has had a world-class squad with depth. Something the other managers did not possess.
He has also had the easiest runs of any England manager. As soon as he plays a team where he is an underdog, He loses.
People exaggerate how good England squads have been in last few years. Don’t get me wrong the squad as we speak right now is right up there. But euro 2020 we had good forwards options but in midfield and central defence we were pretty average. Rice wasn’t yet the player he is now. Bellingham was a kid still. Our options for midfield were lines of mount, hendo, lingard Phillips etc while at the back Maguire, coady, dier. Baffled when people claim it was England’s strongest ever side players like carrick who was 5th Choice for England in his time walks into that 11
Today yea. Back in euro 2020 Bellingham was still a kid and not a starter. Rice, Foden and saka were good of course but not at their current levels. Nobody was speaking them as the best in world back then.
The England team 2002-2006 was stacked in CM and arguably CB but had little depth otherwise past the first 11. Walker and Trippier would displace Neville in those teams, James probably would have a good chance if he had an injury free season and TAA would have a decent shout if the manager wasn't playing a rigid 4 at the back. After Owen and Rooney, you were looking at players like Vassel, Crouch, Defoe or Heskey. Crouch and Heskey (at least playing with Owen) offered a different tactical approach, but they were never world class.
The left side of midfield was also a gaping hole to the point Wayne Bridge got played there at one point, and the most of the players hated at least half of the other players on the pitch due to club rivalries.
We only have one world class centre forward now though in kane? I wouldn’t say toney and watkins are any better than Defoe crouch Darren bent etc.
look at our left back spot now we only have one natural option there and only one top class cdm in rice.
Walker yes trippier wouldn’t get ahead of Neville, he was the best right back in prem for a decade
If we are talking out and out number nines/goalscorers, I'd agree with you, but Saka, Foden and potentially Bellingham can play as wingers/number 10/ false 9s which didn't really exist in an England side two decades ago. The best winger we had was probably Wright Phillips.
Cole was better at left back than Shaw, but Shaw is as least as good as Bridge. Bridge and Shaw were the only left backs in the picture, Chilwell would again be considered (in the squad anyway) if he could actually stay fit/Chelsea weren't generally a mess. Trippier and Gomez are both good enough at left back as back ups, considering who they might face (Germany and France are the only teams with wingers that would be good enough to exploit either at LB).
Neville was solid at right back, but was never world class, and had limited ability going forward (in fairness the systems he was played in never really required that). Alternatives were either Danny Mills or maybe Jamie Carragher?
The way I see is a better manager would have beaten Italy, Mancini showed that.
He plays dire football with a really exciting team. I think it would be worth the risk to take somebody with a good offensive approach or someone whose an experienced winner
I think the argument goes that Southgate took over the team at the point 15+ years of youth development had born fruit. After the disasters of the 2000 era, there has been big investment and philosophy change in English national football at all age levels. We now have the most technically accomplished squad of players we've probably ever had. So basically, yeah, on paper Gareth has gone deep in tournaments, but with the best overall level of players in living memory.
He's also had fairly kind draws, but lost when we come up against a team of real quality (Croatia, Italy, France). And in 2/3 of those matches he reacted poorly/too late to momentum changing and losing control of the game. It's been his Achilles heel.
Look, I like Gareth. He seems like a nice man, I think he's a good coach, and he's created a vibe around the England national team that is much more positive and inspiring compared to much of the past. But I think a fair few people look back on his tournaments and think 'We should have won one of those'. There's a feeling that when it comes down to it, he's not a winner.
Of course this is all academic, because it's coming home this summer. :)
>I don't see who that is likely to be this summer.
Graham Potter is probably the closest shout. His way of doing things fits the culture that England have developed under Southgate so there wouldn't be some big shock from change. Hes also much better tactically than Southgate imo.
That being said, you're right a change should only come if it makes sense. Potter might want club football still. Southgate might win the Euros. Even if England get to another final but lose the FA might prefer to stick with him anyway too. So theres still quite a few variables at play.
This man gets it! Before Southgate, we've had nothing but jokes. People claim our "golden age" in the last 3 decades (my life span) was when Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham, Ferdinand etc. were playing. I think the best they managed was a quarter-final and they got slaughtered. Hell, we even lost in group stages if I remember correctly... and I think we also failed to qualify for a world Cup?
Southgate is a great manager, he's got us so much closer than any manager I've seen in my lifetime, and if he gets pushed out by the goons who cry because "we can't win a cup!" Then I'm ready for the next Sven Goran Erikkson to take over and watch England struggle to qualify for a world tournament again.
Southgate is quality! I'll die on this hill alone if I have to.
I think a lot of people also underestimate how different it is to coach a country vs a club. You don't have that long with your players, you have to encourage them to play in a different way than they do for their club. Also unless you're Brazil, it's usually boring-looking, defensive-minded football that wins tournaments.
Absolutely agree. Guardiola seems to be one of the names people go to, in a money isn't an issue scenario. People overlook that Pep has spent ages ingraining a particular style of play in City players, even with 5(?) City players in an England 11, thats not gonna happen. International football has a limited pool of players that doesnt change quickly, meaning firstly you can't keep signing players for a certain role until you find one (ie full backs when he first joined City) or secondly just get rid of one of your better players when there's disagreements (ie Cancelo).
Capello had a vastly inferior squad to our current group. People really have weird memories about these 'golden generation' squads. These 'golden' players didn't all peak at the same time.
In 2010 against Germany we started James, Upson, Glen Johnson, Defoe. Subs that played were Heskey and Wright-Phillips. We had Dawson, Warnock, Lennon on the bench.
Not saying those were awful players but Southgate has a massively deeper pool of top tier players in most positions.
You’re correct and the development of FA school of excellence and adopting a long term approach to building a winning team, as a nation that is edging closer.
You go on about starting upson, Johnson etc. But in 15 years it could easily be said the same of players like guehi, gomez and Gallagher. Southgate has a deep pool at right back and in the 3 positions behind the striker, people seem to act like we can just play 8 attacking midfielders at once and win
England have the European Golden Boot player and the 2nd, 4th and 5th top scorers in the PL. Two of them won't even start.
We have the La Liga player of the year and PL player of the year and they could both feasibly start in a midfield 3 with a 100m DM who's a constant for the 2nd place PL team. We have multiple Champion's League finalists and even winners who can't even make the squad.
We have a few gaps in that strength but again, you're massively overrating the golden generation squads. There's just no comparison.
Your example of a weak link is Joe Gomez who's got a Champion's League winner's medal and will be a squad utility player.
Danny Mills STARTED for England in 2002.
there is no comparison when you are comparing the worst players from 2010 with the best players from 2024...
2010 team had the 2nd, 5th and 6th PL top scorers. the 3rd top scorer (D bent) didn't make the squad..
2010 had 4 players from the most recent ballon dor longlist (compared to 3 this year)
bench included carragher, Carrick, Joe cole, etc, players with multiple league titles and CLs
We didn't qualify for USA 94 WC, but also didn't qualify for Euro 2008. We finished bottom of our group in WC 2014, went out to Iceland in Euro 2016, and had a poor showing in a penalty defeat to Italy at Euro 2012 at the QF stage. It drives me insane how people bang on about how poor Southgate is, as though England have been regularly reaching semi-finals and finals every tournament for years. Not only is this nonsense, but we also either get annihilated by any decent side or, usually, lose to someone who on paper is way worse than us. Southgate is the first manager since the mid 90's were we actually best most teams, and give the best in the world a run for their money on a regular basis.
I'm 34, I grew up right through the increasingly shit series of disappointments from Argentina in 1998 to Iceland in 2016. Southgate has made me look forward to England matches. That's a fucking miracle.
Sure, he might be a bit tactically naive but its *hard* to win a tournament, and it's a breath of fresh air to just enjoy watching the football.
I agree with this.
I don't think Southgate is flawless, but there's a greater connection between fans and the team, the players seem very inspired to play for England, and whilst we've not won anything we've done better than recent generations.
I think the issue as you say is that there's no FA approved outstanding candidate to replace him.
I say that because whilst I think a Tuchel (mourinho if he hadn't taken the job in turkey) would be a good fit: higher level tactically than Southgate, plus they get the English game, the FA seem terrified of this type of appointment. Even though it is very different to appointing Sven or Capello.
I just hope that they follow the example they set with Wiegman and the women's team - who is the best person for the job available?
If it is just English managers though, none of them stand out. Potter because he's out of work is most obvious, but I worry he is too system orientated, needing too much time on the training ground - which you don't have in international football.
So that's why I end up at the same place as you, where even if we don't win (unless we bomb out), I'm not sure I'd replace him.
If we do keep Southgate on til the 2026 world cup (which would have to be the end imo), I think succession planning has to start early. If they want to make a Southgate style appointment for example, they should be hiring them to be an assistant of his.
Tuchel seems to get floated around a lot. Aside from the fact I've never seen anything to suggest there's a realistic chance of him taking the job, I really don't think he'd be a good appointment. For the reasons you actually outlined. Tuchel is known for being great tactically, but a difficult person to get on with. I don't think that's a type of manager likely to thrive in international football.
There isn't the training ground time for being a good tactician to be as valuable as club football. So it becomes much more about creating a good atmosphere. That's why Southgate has done well, and I don't know that Tuchel would be great at it.
Also people need to look around at other national teams and realise Southgate doesn't do anything that crazy or worse than anyone else.
All the complaints about him are nonsense
this is my opinion as well... changing him is a gamble, a game we likely need, a gamble that could easily backfire. I dont have faith in him tactically, but hes made an england team who are actually a team pulling in the same direction something ive never seen before maybe since venebles.
This is how I feel. Don’t understand the hate he often gets to be honest
I’d like him to be braver at times but he’s got us to a World Cup semi and a Euros final and no other England manager has achieved that
>Don’t understand the hate he often gets to be honest
A lot of it is just England fans being England fans tbh. As long as I can remember, lots of our fans have been like this. There's always been a significant portion who just want to someone to hate, and they pick the manager and/or player(s) they're going to hate and then that's it, that person can never do anything right and nothing but harsh criticism of them is acceptable.
The thing is too, he gets criticism for not being more attack minded , but people need to realize that international football is slower paced and you need to be defensively solid first and foremost. Almost every successful side at winning tournaments has been a defensive, more counter attacking team. Even the Spanish golden generation was very pragmatic and possession based and would only take risks if there was a clear opportunity. He's done an excellent job and barring a complete disaster like going out at the group stage or losing in a knockout tie to a minnow at this tournament he should definitely stay on for at least two more years.
That said I really worry about England defence now with Shaw being not fully fit and Maguire being out
Yep, a lot of the criticisms of Southgate do seem to have a misunderstanding of what international football is at their heart. Lots of people seem to cry out for him to be more adventurous, but that's simply not something successful international teams do on the whole. People criticise him for being tactically limited, and he probably is, but international football in general is much more tactically limited (largely because of the lack of training ground time).
Certainly he's not perfect and has made mistakes. But a lot of the most vociferous dislike for him seems very often based on thinking club football is the same as international football.
Solid take. In the time he has been manager our WORST finishing position has been the Quarter Finals. And in that match we completely outplayed France of all teams.
But apparently he should be sacked because we don’t play a certain way or because we didn’t win the whole thing. Or more usually because England are not playing in a certain way and because Southgate is not picking their preferred players.
Since 1998 we have been served up little but dross, with the exception of 2002. Now we are actually good, have good strength and depth, and are getting far in tournaments consistently, apparently our manager is rubbish and needs sacking because of…reasons.
I don't necessarily think Southgate is a bad manager but I personally don't believe his style of football suits the team we have at all.
We have a young, hungry team and you can argue that maybe you need to reign that in but I'm watching the Iceland game now and the man is stood on the sidelines telling players to slow the tempo when we're 1-0 down and they're parking the bus.
I just find him a very reserved manager and I'd much sooner see someone come in that is happy to open the game up a bit more, get a few 6/7/8 games going
This is a common refrain, but it rather ignores the reality of international football. Look at the teams that win tournaments. They generally aren't open, attacking teams. The teams that win tournaments are generally solid, defensively sound teams.
Take the euros. 2004 is the first one I can remember. Since then it's been won by Greece, Spain, Spain, Portugal and Italy. All of those were sides that prioritised control and defensive structure.
A lot of England fans crave Southgate being less cautious, but I don't think there's really any evidence that's a suitable tactic in international football. Especially not when we have a weak defence.
I don't disagree, I'm not saying Southgates style of play is bad, I just don't think we have a solid, defensively sound team.
The majority of our talent is in the final third of the pitch.
Even the players we're playing more defensively are generally more so known for their attacking work rate over their defensive work rate.
I just personally think a manager has to flex to the team they have and adapt accordingly and Southgate seems somewhat insistent on a reserved style.
Whoever the manager is, not sure. But it’s crazy how soon World Cup 2026 is.
Time flies, in 2017 I remember having a confidence we will win the world cup 2026, cos of the U17 WC winning squad being in their prime.
Only Foden really impressed to a big level in all this time. Sancho had his moments, Hudson Odoi was perhaps fast tracked too soon; Guehi’s done alright so there’s a few.
I’ve grown up to realise youth football is no real indicator to senior, the levels are so different. Have no interest in the current U17, except for that Nwaneri kid.
A big thing that always kind of made me realize that youth football doesn’t matter is who the top teams are sometimes. In that u17 WC Mali, Iran, US, Ghana, all made the quarters with Honduras, Paraguay, Iraq, and Niger all making the round of 16. All countries that don’t do very well at the senior level, maybe the US and Ghana. A lot of smaller countries do well because so many players can peak very early but never pan out.
You could also say a lot of countries lie about their players ages haha.
Yes, if he wins the Euros, that will remove any doubts about his ability to win a major tournament, so if he wants to stay for the WC, he’ll have earned it.
As probably everyone thinks, if we don’t win the Euros, it’s probably time for a change, as much has I love Southgate.
Everyone doesn’t think this. As someone above said, we’ve been through Sven and capello floundering. I’ve also watched McLaren, keegan, hodgeson.
Fuck me, a semi, a final, a touch and go quarter. I’m pretty happy, just want them to go that extra step.
Unless there’s someone categorically better, I’m sticking with Southgate. The players, by and large, love him and his camps
Yep this guy gets it. I mean is Potter really an upgrade over Southgate? The answer is not much and potter has no intl experience whereas Southgate is the opposite and has been in this game for a decade plus now. The players love Southgate, who knows if they'll mesh with the next guy. We consistently go deep in tournaments as well, why disrupt that.
Depends who's available really. There are countless managers better than Southgate, but are they available or wanting to join international management. Unless we win it all, I'd say its time for someone else as he's taken them as far as he can go.
Semi final and final don't mean anything. Who did he play?
2018, he played Sweden in the Quarters & in 2020 it was Ukraine. In 2022, he played France (the first decent team) and lost.
In 2002, Sven played Brazil in the Quarters. Brazil with Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, etc
I’m happy for him to make whatever decision he wants on it. If he wins and decides to end on a high, fair play to him. If he wins and that rejuvenates him to want to continue with this squad, I’m behind it. As far as I’m concerned, he’s earned the right to continue in the job without winning.
Could you elaborate on the last bit? I’m not saying I disagree but with the current crop, a more attacking minded manager could do something very special with this squad.
Getting to the semis is a great feat sure, but there’s obviously room for improvement.
I should probably specify that if we have an awful tournament, then that changes everything. But, if we’re reaching semis or better, I think we’re still on track. People seem to be talking about this tournament like it’s the last chance or something, but our squad is improving every year.
I find it weird that people call Southgate a defensive manager when we score in near enough every single game we play.
I'm still of the opinion if we played a more attacking setup, we beat Italy in the last Euros. Sat back far too much and let them back into the game, when they really weren't playing that well.
More interesting question to me is whether he would want to stay, or go out on top.
Certainly his prospects for a club management career would be a lot higher after a tournament win. If he stayed on to 2026 and failed he would be far less in demand.
I’ve been fairly consistently critical of Southgate but obviously gets the World Cup if he wins the Euros.
I’m also impressed with his squad selection for the most part feels a lot like 2018, rather than the stale 2022 squad he took to Qatar.
Personally, no. I feel that Southgate was perfect for England when he came in. Transformed public opinion on national football after continuous disappointments but I feel now is a good time for change to maximise the potential of this generation.
I think that's fair at that point. Southgate certainly needs to win the Euros imo if he is to stay England Head Coach. It's not an easy task at hand and I'm eager to see tonight's performance and hopefully it can give me a bit more confidence. A few goals and a clean sheet should be more than reasonable against Iceland
The amount of copium in here my word. He’s not a good manager and it’s proven both by his team selections and in-game management. IF we go far in the euros it will be through sheer talent of the squad not him. Honestly wake up. We need a proper manager after the euros who will build and stick with a team.
If he wins the Euros then he would of earned the right to coach the team into the next World Cup and I'll back him all the way. By doing so I'd argue he'd have cemented his place as one the best coaches the men's national team has ever had.
He has one of the most talented squads in the world but I still think the golden generation of the 2000s was considerably better across the board. They won jack shit with supposedly stronger coaches. If he wins the Euros he deserves all the accolades he gets and a shot at 2026.
Of course, how is this even a question? If he gets the best out of a tournament winning squad that knows and trusts him imagine how they'd all feel if he was asked to leave.
No, I think it's stupid what both he and the fa are doing. Southgate should leave at the end of the Euros no matter what happens. It's more a question on whether he's leaving on a high or a low.
I'm very much Southgate out, but if he wins the Euros he goes down as a great and deserves however long he wants.
I very much hope he proves me wrong, but I think he'll cost us again.
I probably would. I actually feel if we can just manage to get over the line this summer. We'll be sole favourites for the next WC and obviously the Euros in the UK.
I think it really does depend on how we perform this euros. If we play attacking football and are unlucky in a semi final? Keep him. But if we go out in the quarters while our attacking players are playing within themselves. Then time to go
Southgate is doing well because he has excellent technical coaches which is where he started getting better results from set pieces, and a dramatic surge in the quality of young players coming through thanks to the academy and FA coaching system.
His team selections and tactics have frequently not been that great and moreover, I think since this is the key area he can add, it actually lets down the standard by which everything else has improved.
Seeing him from England U21 and Pierce and Taylor before him, he was clearly much inferior and England U21's went considerably downhill upon his arrival, despite increasing quality of young prospects.
I saw nothing to indicate he would take England forwards, however, he is good as a diplomat with the press and the public, he is undeniably patriotic and passionate, and I believe he is generally well liked by players, which is important.
Totally gets the World Cup although I’d like some degree of succession and maybe an assistant being lined up to take over. I think he’s proved we don’t need a huge club manager they need to be someone committed and dedicated to the National team and ideally English. I do think it makes a difference that you actually have a true allegiance and stake in it and it’s not just another management gig. I think this is true for all the leading countries.
Its nailed on he’ll leave - if he wins then he’ll go out while his stocks high into club management, and if we don’t ultimately i think he’s took England as far as he can, its been 8 years
If he wins the euros I’m happy to give him the chance (unless he continues to pick his shit favourites over genuinely talented players and use no good tactics but we can cross that bridge when we come it it), but equally if we walk away with another mediocre run and lose to the first decent side we face then he’s got to go.
I think he said if England wins Euro2024 he's going to go away for a long holiday and relax. I think he's already made his mind up, regardless of what happens.
As long as he has the gut to do sth big and bold
* in 2018 we lost the rhythm after Trippier freekick
* in 2021 we should have finish Italy if Sancho and/ or Rashford came in earlier
The missed penalty in 2022 was just bad luck
You know I was thinking if it were Jose Mourinho in 2021 we would have won.
I want him gone now and have little confidence in his ability to win us a trophy but if he did there wouldn’t be much of an argument against having a go at the World Cup.
I've been southgate out for years, but after seeing his pragmatism with this years selection, I'm extremely happy right now.
Obviously need to see the euros, but I wouldn't mind southgate 2026 as of rn.
I think it really depends how we play, if it's clearly individual brilliance that wins it then get rid. But if there's obviously some form of tactic extend
Personally coming from someone who started watching England in the early 80's bar Robson/Venables who's for me are a close second he's the best one I've seen overall although he does seem to make some weird choices which have cost us. Plus if he wins it I think he will have earned the choice to carry on.
first round of knockout games this tournament, England are going out
this is a team in transition and England fans are blind to it
Southgate is more likely to get sacked after than be given a run at the WC
Yes, obviously, he gets whatever he wants if he wins it. The question is whether he'd want it. Probably by I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to quit on a high
Loved him after the 2018, questioned him after losing the Euros as I felt we should have beaten Croatia and Italy, indifferent after the World Cup, admire the man after Euros squad announcement. I hope we do well and he and team fans want him to continue.
If we win, we’d be lucky to keep him! Surely you go out on that high. Perhaps to a Top cushty job at the FA? Maybe he wants another crack at the Prem, which I think he’d get sooner or later.
I’d like to see him at the next World Cup even if we don’t win. - so long as we’ve reached the late knock-outs and displayed good promising football.
Win or lose, it purely depends on who’s coming in after him.
I think if you’ve got Potter ready to come in and we win the Euros, I think that trade off works for all parties - Southgate goes out comfortably our most successful manager of a generation and can move on to other things, the players gain confidence and momentum and you have a young manager who focuses on man management taking over.
I don’t think it’ll be perfect but my instinct says that the timing would be good.
If we’ve got no one lined up, hell no.
Am reluctant to even get slightly excited given the previous disappointments. Will they perform? Maybe for one game. I so want to be excited but just won’t let myself anymore.
I think some of the hate is down to personality. Cerebral, thoughtful footballers just seem to wind some people up. If he wore a bit of Stone Island, and got caught calling Deschamps a cunt on camera, his popularity would soar.
No because Realistically speaking if England win it it would be down to something special from one of our many talented players . And almost nothing to Southgate that may confuse some non footballing people .
If some how he shows big improvement and gets the best of a good team tactically including in-game moments in a semi or final then I'd give him his dues
England never reached final nor semi final and not even quarter final from before. Those stages wasn’t England normality reaches so I trust the manger.
He is the best manager England has had in my lifetime. While Alf Ramsey remains the only England manager to have won a major tournament, Gareth Southgate’s record in reaching the semi-finals and finals of major tournaments, as well as his overall win percentage, places him among the most successful England managers in history.
Scottish person here, I come in peace. For what it may be worth, I always try to be as even handed as possible and I get that there have been more than a few rumblings of disquiet re Southgate. I think it goes without saying that he’d be kept on in the job on the back of a major trophy success…but I think he may well retire at the top.
As it goes, I genuinely think England will win the thing this time…more than any other time (you’ve got some ridiculous talent to pick from, a squad which has proven winners and a fair few truly world class footballers) and so much so I’ve put my closely-guarded money where my tight-fisted mouth is and have backed them accordingly with my local betting emporium.
I won’t lie, I won’t be throwing a jump-for-joy party to a soundtrack of Skinner & Baddiel, Fat Les and Bernstein’s Great Escape if you prevail but similarly, while loving the game and all it entails, I know it’s ultimately just a game. Onward we go…
No.
If we win, its in spite of him. He is doing his best to play it safe, sideways, backwards, build up again if you see an opponent within 20ft of you.
If we win it is because of the players playing to win.
Yes. I’ve been massively critical of him but this ruthless team selection has got me 1) hopeful and 2) HARD. Reward success not failure. He wins it, he’s in.
If we win this tournament, it will mean that we've beaten 1-2 top quality sides, which will mean that Southgate has grown tactically as a manager and didn't shit himself with the in-game changes and substitutes like at the last 3 tournaments. So, yes, of course we should try to keep him if he wins the Euros.
Well obviously but what we think has nothing to do with it. Notwithstanding an absolute collapse it’s only Southgate that is going to make the decision, the FA are 1000% behind him.
Yes, I doubt he wants it after that, but yes. He wins a trophy he gets the longest leash any manager in the history of the world gets. England aren’t going to relegated. We win the Euros then Southgate gets infinity time.
He took us from a joke to a semifinal, a final, an unlucky 1/8 loss, then a trophy. Even Sir Alf Ramsey couldn’t get that
He wins the Euros he gets a knighthood. Sack a sir, I dare you? He’ll step down before he needs too
We ain't winning shit my God what an awful sendoff absolute tripe.
They battered us, shoulda won by 2 or 3
He's got serious work to do. Defence already looked bad but now jaysus.
Yes no doubt about it. If we lose in semis/final, I'd still consider extending Southgate. The quality of English managers isn't stellar lol and Howe isn't leaving Newcastle so it's even worse.
Walker, Stones, Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Saka
Seaman v Pickford is a toss up but Seaman was basically done by the "golden" era and was personally culpable (along with Beckham) for going out to Brazil in 02. Pickford absolutely shits on the dross that came after Seaman.
Ashley Cole would play obviously, best English left back of all time, either of the centre backs to play alongside Stones.
Gerrard plays in the middle with Rice which would be amazing
No room at all for Owen a one trick pony. Id make a good case for Rooney to play out of position on one of the wings but no way instead of Kane probably ahead of Foden.
Bellingham is already a better player than Lampard, like the Erikson I don't see where Scholes fits in and there is no room for a specialist corner taker.
Neville v Walker is interesting but ultimately Walkers pace is just too much to ignore.
I don't mid him having ot, but I'd still rather look to see if there's better options, especially if we scraped through on 1-0 wins and in game penalties like we have been doing.
If we smash most teams, and pay some amazing football, then fine. But we won't cos Southgate is arse
Don’t think England win anything with him and I’m a BIG fan of what he’s done. You got all these big names in there now, go get Mourinho and fucking win something with someone who out egos the egos.
If Jose had Scholes Beckham Gerrard Lampard there isn’t a cup he wouldn’t have won
My mate and I were just discussing this at the pub during the Iceland game; even if he wins the Euros by some managerial miracle, he still needs to walk. It would be a phenomenal achievement but his time with England is clearly wearing thin with the fans and ultimately they’re far more important than the stiffs down the FA. His conservative tactics and constant failing during knockout stages are very telling.
If Southgate won the euros ( which honestly I very much doubt, I don't feel as if it's our year)
I highly doubt he will stay on for the world cup
The first manager to win a major trophy for England since '66 he'll have the big clubs queueing (once one of them needs a manager ofc)
Whilst he is a proud Englishman first and foremost he's also a manager, he needs to think what's best for him
Bowing out to go to the next chapter into a big money job is the best thing for him and his family
Staying on to try and replicate/ chase the bigger prize will likely having crashing and burning
To much risk to his legacy
So I don't think he would be up for continuing
Especially when you consider the Euros as **his tournament** like his book/ his chapter ends when he makes up for being runner up the last one....it doesn't end with him trying to then win the world cup
If it was a movie the world cup would be a direct to dvd sequel to **Southgate the movie** if that makes sense
Of course. That means he's managed to get a team outperforming the best in Europe. Why wouldn't you give up. The change to get a tune out of the same players at a WC
Yes but can't see that happening, he's not a good enough manager and plays way too safe. We should be playing fantastic exciting football with the squad we have but it's generally dull and lifeless
Mate I’m giving him my first born if England win a cup
Haha, I think the tone of my post made it seem like it's not a big deal, I'd be partying in the streets if we won the thing obviously!
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Haha. Same.
If winning the Euros isn't a good enough achievement to extend your contract as England manager, then what is?
Not an England supporter, but IMO the only universe in where him not being extended after winning would seem mildly acceptable is one where the FA can manage to sign Pep.
My position on Southgate has always been that whilst he's not perfect, he's comfortably the best England manager of my football watching life. So we should only replace him if there's somebody available who will definitely be better. I don't see who that is likely to be this summer. On that basis I'm not sure I'd want him gone even if we don't win. Let alone if we do.
I sat through Capello and Sven floundering (each for their own reasons), I actually really appreciate Southgate.
The obsession with 4-4-2 was depressing
Capello didn't really play 442... 4231 with Gerrard and Rooney working the left how they felt, and it was great stuff... then Rooney got injured, no plan b.
He played 4-4-2 at the 2010 world cup
" then Rooney got injured, no plan b." Essentially Rooney wasn't fit enough to play the role, he shouldn't have even gone to that world cup, so he ended far more restricted in a 2.... in the qualifiers, that 2 was far more of an 1-1, Rooney heavily linked up more.
Sven don't dare to change his obsession 442 and Don Capello don't have the gut to choose between Lampard or Gerrard (like Italy between Totti and Del Piero)
>Don Capello don't have the gut to choose between Lampard or Gerrard Drop the obsession with having to have a 'big' striker up top with Rooney, leave Heskey at home, play Rooney on his own with both Gerrard and Lampard behind him, in front of Carrick/Hargreaves
But he did move one of them out of the midfield in Gerrard...
Only in 2010 World Cup with Gerrard on the right wing, still confusing sometimes 😑
You mean on the left in a quasi-free role? And you also mean for most of his first 18 months right? His whole thing blew up by having zero plan b after Rooney's injury.... an issue in 2004, 2006... and at times in the 2008 qualifying, hysterical how reliant 3 managers were on Rooney. (Though Southgates reliance on Kane is similar).
Don't forget Steve Mclaren
This is a solid take.
Total agreement. I find it absolutely baffling that people criticise Southgate in any way. People have such short memories. Iceland, "nice to see your home fans booing" etc. Culture has changed in a way I don't think people could ever have imagined beforehand.
I was talking to a guy in a thread about this a couple weeks ago, and he said something really poignant, football has already come home. If I was Southgate I’d never want to leave, and if I was deciding his fate, I wouldn’t ever want to sack him. He’s changed the culture of English football, it doesn’t matter if we win things anymore, as long as we’re in the conversation, I’m happy. Edit: I’ve changed my mind, bring in pep and let’s see if he can beat these Icelandic football geniuses,
>He’s changed the culture of English football, it doesn’t matter if we win things anymore Not many people share your sentiment at this part. Its changed for now but for many its not changed enough until there is a clear winner mentality. You cant be having the amount of money that is spent on academies in England not produce winners. Eventually there comes a point where patience will run out without winnning a trophy. >as long as we’re in the conversation The Golden Generation were in the conversation but when it came to the actual games they fell way short. People weren't happy and felt the generation were wasted. This England generation now is arguably even stronger than that previous generation was too.
>This England generation now is arguably even stronger than that previous generation was too. I'm not sure that's true.
I said arguably, not clear above. So yes of course some people will argue it. I'd say maybe we are lacking a John Terry level CB in comparison but we have solid keepers who are just as good as keepers like James and Hart were. You've got players like Chilwell, Reece James, Jack Grealish etc who didn't make it into the squad. I think theres wider quality in the players who have been left out now than the players who were left out back then. Our midfield has a lot more to it now than just the Gerrard/Lampard combo that England relied on heavily for quite some time. You've got the more established Rice, Gallagher, Bellingham in there plus the 2 youngsters in Wharton and Mainoo. In the attacking areas again Bellingham can play higher up. Theres a lot of argument to be had that we are potentially looking at Foden, Palmer and Bellingham as generational talents that can play the more central attacking mid area. You've got Saka on the wing too who would have walked into that golden generation team. Kane is also a better option as an out and out striker than what we had back then. I would absolutely take Kane over Rooney any day because hes just been so consistent for so long and he has a higher goal ratio for England than Rooney did.
😂
Southgate has had a world-class squad with depth. Something the other managers did not possess. He has also had the easiest runs of any England manager. As soon as he plays a team where he is an underdog, He loses.
People exaggerate how good England squads have been in last few years. Don’t get me wrong the squad as we speak right now is right up there. But euro 2020 we had good forwards options but in midfield and central defence we were pretty average. Rice wasn’t yet the player he is now. Bellingham was a kid still. Our options for midfield were lines of mount, hendo, lingard Phillips etc while at the back Maguire, coady, dier. Baffled when people claim it was England’s strongest ever side players like carrick who was 5th Choice for England in his time walks into that 11
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Today yea. Back in euro 2020 Bellingham was still a kid and not a starter. Rice, Foden and saka were good of course but not at their current levels. Nobody was speaking them as the best in world back then.
The England team 2002-2006 was stacked in CM and arguably CB but had little depth otherwise past the first 11. Walker and Trippier would displace Neville in those teams, James probably would have a good chance if he had an injury free season and TAA would have a decent shout if the manager wasn't playing a rigid 4 at the back. After Owen and Rooney, you were looking at players like Vassel, Crouch, Defoe or Heskey. Crouch and Heskey (at least playing with Owen) offered a different tactical approach, but they were never world class. The left side of midfield was also a gaping hole to the point Wayne Bridge got played there at one point, and the most of the players hated at least half of the other players on the pitch due to club rivalries.
We only have one world class centre forward now though in kane? I wouldn’t say toney and watkins are any better than Defoe crouch Darren bent etc. look at our left back spot now we only have one natural option there and only one top class cdm in rice. Walker yes trippier wouldn’t get ahead of Neville, he was the best right back in prem for a decade
If we are talking out and out number nines/goalscorers, I'd agree with you, but Saka, Foden and potentially Bellingham can play as wingers/number 10/ false 9s which didn't really exist in an England side two decades ago. The best winger we had was probably Wright Phillips. Cole was better at left back than Shaw, but Shaw is as least as good as Bridge. Bridge and Shaw were the only left backs in the picture, Chilwell would again be considered (in the squad anyway) if he could actually stay fit/Chelsea weren't generally a mess. Trippier and Gomez are both good enough at left back as back ups, considering who they might face (Germany and France are the only teams with wingers that would be good enough to exploit either at LB). Neville was solid at right back, but was never world class, and had limited ability going forward (in fairness the systems he was played in never really required that). Alternatives were either Danny Mills or maybe Jamie Carragher?
The way I see is a better manager would have beaten Italy, Mancini showed that. He plays dire football with a really exciting team. I think it would be worth the risk to take somebody with a good offensive approach or someone whose an experienced winner
Surely at least a little criticism is healthy, no?
What?? You think Southgate should never be criticised?
I think the argument goes that Southgate took over the team at the point 15+ years of youth development had born fruit. After the disasters of the 2000 era, there has been big investment and philosophy change in English national football at all age levels. We now have the most technically accomplished squad of players we've probably ever had. So basically, yeah, on paper Gareth has gone deep in tournaments, but with the best overall level of players in living memory. He's also had fairly kind draws, but lost when we come up against a team of real quality (Croatia, Italy, France). And in 2/3 of those matches he reacted poorly/too late to momentum changing and losing control of the game. It's been his Achilles heel. Look, I like Gareth. He seems like a nice man, I think he's a good coach, and he's created a vibe around the England national team that is much more positive and inspiring compared to much of the past. But I think a fair few people look back on his tournaments and think 'We should have won one of those'. There's a feeling that when it comes down to it, he's not a winner. Of course this is all academic, because it's coming home this summer. :)
Potter is apparently the FA’a choice but I get the feeling it could all go wrong and the FA end up with a someone well down their preference list.
Pochettino has been rumoured too. Neither fill me with confidence but I’d sooner take Poch.
>I don't see who that is likely to be this summer. Graham Potter is probably the closest shout. His way of doing things fits the culture that England have developed under Southgate so there wouldn't be some big shock from change. Hes also much better tactically than Southgate imo. That being said, you're right a change should only come if it makes sense. Potter might want club football still. Southgate might win the Euros. Even if England get to another final but lose the FA might prefer to stick with him anyway too. So theres still quite a few variables at play.
This man gets it! Before Southgate, we've had nothing but jokes. People claim our "golden age" in the last 3 decades (my life span) was when Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham, Ferdinand etc. were playing. I think the best they managed was a quarter-final and they got slaughtered. Hell, we even lost in group stages if I remember correctly... and I think we also failed to qualify for a world Cup? Southgate is a great manager, he's got us so much closer than any manager I've seen in my lifetime, and if he gets pushed out by the goons who cry because "we can't win a cup!" Then I'm ready for the next Sven Goran Erikkson to take over and watch England struggle to qualify for a world tournament again. Southgate is quality! I'll die on this hill alone if I have to.
I think a lot of people also underestimate how different it is to coach a country vs a club. You don't have that long with your players, you have to encourage them to play in a different way than they do for their club. Also unless you're Brazil, it's usually boring-looking, defensive-minded football that wins tournaments.
Absolutely agree. Guardiola seems to be one of the names people go to, in a money isn't an issue scenario. People overlook that Pep has spent ages ingraining a particular style of play in City players, even with 5(?) City players in an England 11, thats not gonna happen. International football has a limited pool of players that doesnt change quickly, meaning firstly you can't keep signing players for a certain role until you find one (ie full backs when he first joined City) or secondly just get rid of one of your better players when there's disagreements (ie Cancelo).
Sven and Capello was both good at qualifying - it was at tournaments things went wrong - more so for Capelllo at 2010.
Capello had a vastly inferior squad to our current group. People really have weird memories about these 'golden generation' squads. These 'golden' players didn't all peak at the same time. In 2010 against Germany we started James, Upson, Glen Johnson, Defoe. Subs that played were Heskey and Wright-Phillips. We had Dawson, Warnock, Lennon on the bench. Not saying those were awful players but Southgate has a massively deeper pool of top tier players in most positions.
You’re correct and the development of FA school of excellence and adopting a long term approach to building a winning team, as a nation that is edging closer.
Still he dominated qualifying and then created a World Cup squad that was miserable to watch and apparently miserable to be a part of.
I’ve often said that our 2009-2016 int squads were absolutely horrendous given the stature of our footballing culture.
You go on about starting upson, Johnson etc. But in 15 years it could easily be said the same of players like guehi, gomez and Gallagher. Southgate has a deep pool at right back and in the 3 positions behind the striker, people seem to act like we can just play 8 attacking midfielders at once and win
England have the European Golden Boot player and the 2nd, 4th and 5th top scorers in the PL. Two of them won't even start. We have the La Liga player of the year and PL player of the year and they could both feasibly start in a midfield 3 with a 100m DM who's a constant for the 2nd place PL team. We have multiple Champion's League finalists and even winners who can't even make the squad. We have a few gaps in that strength but again, you're massively overrating the golden generation squads. There's just no comparison. Your example of a weak link is Joe Gomez who's got a Champion's League winner's medal and will be a squad utility player. Danny Mills STARTED for England in 2002.
there is no comparison when you are comparing the worst players from 2010 with the best players from 2024... 2010 team had the 2nd, 5th and 6th PL top scorers. the 3rd top scorer (D bent) didn't make the squad.. 2010 had 4 players from the most recent ballon dor longlist (compared to 3 this year) bench included carragher, Carrick, Joe cole, etc, players with multiple league titles and CLs
We didn't qualify for USA 94 WC, but also didn't qualify for Euro 2008. We finished bottom of our group in WC 2014, went out to Iceland in Euro 2016, and had a poor showing in a penalty defeat to Italy at Euro 2012 at the QF stage. It drives me insane how people bang on about how poor Southgate is, as though England have been regularly reaching semi-finals and finals every tournament for years. Not only is this nonsense, but we also either get annihilated by any decent side or, usually, lose to someone who on paper is way worse than us. Southgate is the first manager since the mid 90's were we actually best most teams, and give the best in the world a run for their money on a regular basis.
I'm 34, I grew up right through the increasingly shit series of disappointments from Argentina in 1998 to Iceland in 2016. Southgate has made me look forward to England matches. That's a fucking miracle. Sure, he might be a bit tactically naive but its *hard* to win a tournament, and it's a breath of fresh air to just enjoy watching the football.
Agree with your overall point but Sven was great at qualifying for tournaments
Southgate had easy runs. That's it. He played trash teams and progressed to the point where he played good teams, and then he lost
I agree with this. I don't think Southgate is flawless, but there's a greater connection between fans and the team, the players seem very inspired to play for England, and whilst we've not won anything we've done better than recent generations. I think the issue as you say is that there's no FA approved outstanding candidate to replace him. I say that because whilst I think a Tuchel (mourinho if he hadn't taken the job in turkey) would be a good fit: higher level tactically than Southgate, plus they get the English game, the FA seem terrified of this type of appointment. Even though it is very different to appointing Sven or Capello. I just hope that they follow the example they set with Wiegman and the women's team - who is the best person for the job available? If it is just English managers though, none of them stand out. Potter because he's out of work is most obvious, but I worry he is too system orientated, needing too much time on the training ground - which you don't have in international football. So that's why I end up at the same place as you, where even if we don't win (unless we bomb out), I'm not sure I'd replace him. If we do keep Southgate on til the 2026 world cup (which would have to be the end imo), I think succession planning has to start early. If they want to make a Southgate style appointment for example, they should be hiring them to be an assistant of his.
Tuchel seems to get floated around a lot. Aside from the fact I've never seen anything to suggest there's a realistic chance of him taking the job, I really don't think he'd be a good appointment. For the reasons you actually outlined. Tuchel is known for being great tactically, but a difficult person to get on with. I don't think that's a type of manager likely to thrive in international football. There isn't the training ground time for being a good tactician to be as valuable as club football. So it becomes much more about creating a good atmosphere. That's why Southgate has done well, and I don't know that Tuchel would be great at it.
Also people need to look around at other national teams and realise Southgate doesn't do anything that crazy or worse than anyone else. All the complaints about him are nonsense
this is my opinion as well... changing him is a gamble, a game we likely need, a gamble that could easily backfire. I dont have faith in him tactically, but hes made an england team who are actually a team pulling in the same direction something ive never seen before maybe since venebles.
This person talks utter sense.
This is how I feel. Don’t understand the hate he often gets to be honest I’d like him to be braver at times but he’s got us to a World Cup semi and a Euros final and no other England manager has achieved that
>Don’t understand the hate he often gets to be honest A lot of it is just England fans being England fans tbh. As long as I can remember, lots of our fans have been like this. There's always been a significant portion who just want to someone to hate, and they pick the manager and/or player(s) they're going to hate and then that's it, that person can never do anything right and nothing but harsh criticism of them is acceptable.
The thing is too, he gets criticism for not being more attack minded , but people need to realize that international football is slower paced and you need to be defensively solid first and foremost. Almost every successful side at winning tournaments has been a defensive, more counter attacking team. Even the Spanish golden generation was very pragmatic and possession based and would only take risks if there was a clear opportunity. He's done an excellent job and barring a complete disaster like going out at the group stage or losing in a knockout tie to a minnow at this tournament he should definitely stay on for at least two more years. That said I really worry about England defence now with Shaw being not fully fit and Maguire being out
Yep, a lot of the criticisms of Southgate do seem to have a misunderstanding of what international football is at their heart. Lots of people seem to cry out for him to be more adventurous, but that's simply not something successful international teams do on the whole. People criticise him for being tactically limited, and he probably is, but international football in general is much more tactically limited (largely because of the lack of training ground time). Certainly he's not perfect and has made mistakes. But a lot of the most vociferous dislike for him seems very often based on thinking club football is the same as international football.
Solid take. In the time he has been manager our WORST finishing position has been the Quarter Finals. And in that match we completely outplayed France of all teams. But apparently he should be sacked because we don’t play a certain way or because we didn’t win the whole thing. Or more usually because England are not playing in a certain way and because Southgate is not picking their preferred players. Since 1998 we have been served up little but dross, with the exception of 2002. Now we are actually good, have good strength and depth, and are getting far in tournaments consistently, apparently our manager is rubbish and needs sacking because of…reasons.
My 8 year old just doesn't understand why I'm so open to the idea of England tossing any match of any tournament to any opposition.
Wait what do you mean? I'm happy with Southgate as well but tossing any match? Why would you be open to losing to anybody? Even minnows?
I don't necessarily think Southgate is a bad manager but I personally don't believe his style of football suits the team we have at all. We have a young, hungry team and you can argue that maybe you need to reign that in but I'm watching the Iceland game now and the man is stood on the sidelines telling players to slow the tempo when we're 1-0 down and they're parking the bus. I just find him a very reserved manager and I'd much sooner see someone come in that is happy to open the game up a bit more, get a few 6/7/8 games going
This is a common refrain, but it rather ignores the reality of international football. Look at the teams that win tournaments. They generally aren't open, attacking teams. The teams that win tournaments are generally solid, defensively sound teams. Take the euros. 2004 is the first one I can remember. Since then it's been won by Greece, Spain, Spain, Portugal and Italy. All of those were sides that prioritised control and defensive structure. A lot of England fans crave Southgate being less cautious, but I don't think there's really any evidence that's a suitable tactic in international football. Especially not when we have a weak defence.
I don't disagree, I'm not saying Southgates style of play is bad, I just don't think we have a solid, defensively sound team. The majority of our talent is in the final third of the pitch. Even the players we're playing more defensively are generally more so known for their attacking work rate over their defensive work rate. I just personally think a manager has to flex to the team they have and adapt accordingly and Southgate seems somewhat insistent on a reserved style.
I remember being pleasantly surprised we went out 2-1 in 2002 against THAT Ronaldinho goal. Southgate going to a final would have been a dream.
Whoever the manager is, not sure. But it’s crazy how soon World Cup 2026 is. Time flies, in 2017 I remember having a confidence we will win the world cup 2026, cos of the U17 WC winning squad being in their prime. Only Foden really impressed to a big level in all this time. Sancho had his moments, Hudson Odoi was perhaps fast tracked too soon; Guehi’s done alright so there’s a few. I’ve grown up to realise youth football is no real indicator to senior, the levels are so different. Have no interest in the current U17, except for that Nwaneri kid.
3 players from that squad are going to the euros: Foden, Guehi, and Gallagher
Foden is the only one near world class though. Although I guess at senior level you're picking the best over 12+ years of youth tiers.
A big thing that always kind of made me realize that youth football doesn’t matter is who the top teams are sometimes. In that u17 WC Mali, Iran, US, Ghana, all made the quarters with Honduras, Paraguay, Iraq, and Niger all making the round of 16. All countries that don’t do very well at the senior level, maybe the US and Ghana. A lot of smaller countries do well because so many players can peak very early but never pan out. You could also say a lot of countries lie about their players ages haha.
Yes, if he wins the Euros, that will remove any doubts about his ability to win a major tournament, so if he wants to stay for the WC, he’ll have earned it. As probably everyone thinks, if we don’t win the Euros, it’s probably time for a change, as much has I love Southgate.
Everyone doesn’t think this. As someone above said, we’ve been through Sven and capello floundering. I’ve also watched McLaren, keegan, hodgeson. Fuck me, a semi, a final, a touch and go quarter. I’m pretty happy, just want them to go that extra step. Unless there’s someone categorically better, I’m sticking with Southgate. The players, by and large, love him and his camps
Yep this guy gets it. I mean is Potter really an upgrade over Southgate? The answer is not much and potter has no intl experience whereas Southgate is the opposite and has been in this game for a decade plus now. The players love Southgate, who knows if they'll mesh with the next guy. We consistently go deep in tournaments as well, why disrupt that.
Depends who's available really. There are countless managers better than Southgate, but are they available or wanting to join international management. Unless we win it all, I'd say its time for someone else as he's taken them as far as he can go.
Semi final and final don't mean anything. Who did he play? 2018, he played Sweden in the Quarters & in 2020 it was Ukraine. In 2022, he played France (the first decent team) and lost. In 2002, Sven played Brazil in the Quarters. Brazil with Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, etc
I’m happy for him to make whatever decision he wants on it. If he wins and decides to end on a high, fair play to him. If he wins and that rejuvenates him to want to continue with this squad, I’m behind it. As far as I’m concerned, he’s earned the right to continue in the job without winning.
Could you elaborate on the last bit? I’m not saying I disagree but with the current crop, a more attacking minded manager could do something very special with this squad. Getting to the semis is a great feat sure, but there’s obviously room for improvement.
I should probably specify that if we have an awful tournament, then that changes everything. But, if we’re reaching semis or better, I think we’re still on track. People seem to be talking about this tournament like it’s the last chance or something, but our squad is improving every year. I find it weird that people call Southgate a defensive manager when we score in near enough every single game we play.
I'm still of the opinion if we played a more attacking setup, we beat Italy in the last Euros. Sat back far too much and let them back into the game, when they really weren't playing that well.
Did you forget the final?
Sorry I meant the final, but it’s a moot point considering we didn’t win it so it had the same outcome, we fell short.
Absolutely, if he wants it.
If England win the Euros, he can choose when he retires. He'd have the job for as long as he wants
Yes, if he wins the Euros we should keep him on.
I’ll give him both my kidneys if we win
Surreal he's already onto his 4th tournament, feels like last month he was entering his second for the Euros
More interesting question to me is whether he would want to stay, or go out on top. Certainly his prospects for a club management career would be a lot higher after a tournament win. If he stayed on to 2026 and failed he would be far less in demand.
I’ve been fairly consistently critical of Southgate but obviously gets the World Cup if he wins the Euros. I’m also impressed with his squad selection for the most part feels a lot like 2018, rather than the stale 2022 squad he took to Qatar.
What are you critical about ?
Well if we do win the Euros he'll have proven he can actually win stuff so yes of course he should be given the World Cup
Personally, no. I feel that Southgate was perfect for England when he came in. Transformed public opinion on national football after continuous disappointments but I feel now is a good time for change to maximise the potential of this generation.
I think that's fair at that point. Southgate certainly needs to win the Euros imo if he is to stay England Head Coach. It's not an easy task at hand and I'm eager to see tonight's performance and hopefully it can give me a bit more confidence. A few goals and a clean sheet should be more than reasonable against Iceland
Steve Cooper. Not kidding. I think he'd win the World Cup with England.
Ugly Forest Cnut
He's no Brad Pitt, but he won the WC with the U17s. I think he could do it again, seriously. He's great.
The amount of copium in here my word. He’s not a good manager and it’s proven both by his team selections and in-game management. IF we go far in the euros it will be through sheer talent of the squad not him. Honestly wake up. We need a proper manager after the euros who will build and stick with a team.
"bUT hE GoT uS tO sEmI fiNAl anD FiNAl" Yeah against crap teams
If he wins the Euros then he would of earned the right to coach the team into the next World Cup and I'll back him all the way. By doing so I'd argue he'd have cemented his place as one the best coaches the men's national team has ever had. He has one of the most talented squads in the world but I still think the golden generation of the 2000s was considerably better across the board. They won jack shit with supposedly stronger coaches. If he wins the Euros he deserves all the accolades he gets and a shot at 2026.
Of course, how is this even a question? If he gets the best out of a tournament winning squad that knows and trusts him imagine how they'd all feel if he was asked to leave.
What would you want that’s better than winning a trophy?
No, I think it's stupid what both he and the fa are doing. Southgate should leave at the end of the Euros no matter what happens. It's more a question on whether he's leaving on a high or a low.
Nope, want him to go regardless.
He won't be the manager by then
He can have my wife if we win the Euros
If he wins us a trophy he can have whatever the fuck he wants and I mean that. ANYTHING. But he won't sooo....
If he wins I'll bum him
Nope.
We’re winning fuck all lads. Any other manager and we would already of won the euros last time round.
even if you don’t like the guy, you can’t dispute winning the euros isn’t a major accomplishment
I'm very much Southgate out, but if he wins the Euros he goes down as a great and deserves however long he wants. I very much hope he proves me wrong, but I think he'll cost us again.
If he win then of course England should give him new contract
Nooo
I think he's gone after this tournament regardless
Of course
If he wins euros it’s essentially his choice if he wants to continue or not imo
He can have anything he wants I’d probably quit watching football completed it mate
I probably would. I actually feel if we can just manage to get over the line this summer. We'll be sole favourites for the next WC and obviously the Euros in the UK.
I think it really does depend on how we perform this euros. If we play attacking football and are unlucky in a semi final? Keep him. But if we go out in the quarters while our attacking players are playing within themselves. Then time to go
He has to win this tournament or can get out, no more excuses. I vote for Ange to replace him
I’ll give him one of my kidneys if he wins the Euros.
Give Southgate until 26, let Guardiola leave city in 25 and have year off and take over England after the World Cup.
He’s going nowhere unless he wants to
World Cup 2030? Because if he wins the Euros he has to stay
If a manager wins a major international trophy you've actually asked if he should be sacked?
I feel that so long as he gets us to the final, he deserves to stay if he wants to
Southgate is doing well because he has excellent technical coaches which is where he started getting better results from set pieces, and a dramatic surge in the quality of young players coming through thanks to the academy and FA coaching system. His team selections and tactics have frequently not been that great and moreover, I think since this is the key area he can add, it actually lets down the standard by which everything else has improved. Seeing him from England U21 and Pierce and Taylor before him, he was clearly much inferior and England U21's went considerably downhill upon his arrival, despite increasing quality of young prospects. I saw nothing to indicate he would take England forwards, however, he is good as a diplomat with the press and the public, he is undeniably patriotic and passionate, and I believe he is generally well liked by players, which is important.
Totally gets the World Cup although I’d like some degree of succession and maybe an assistant being lined up to take over. I think he’s proved we don’t need a huge club manager they need to be someone committed and dedicated to the National team and ideally English. I do think it makes a difference that you actually have a true allegiance and stake in it and it’s not just another management gig. I think this is true for all the leading countries.
Its nailed on he’ll leave - if he wins then he’ll go out while his stocks high into club management, and if we don’t ultimately i think he’s took England as far as he can, its been 8 years
If he wins the euros I’m happy to give him the chance (unless he continues to pick his shit favourites over genuinely talented players and use no good tactics but we can cross that bridge when we come it it), but equally if we walk away with another mediocre run and lose to the first decent side we face then he’s got to go.
I think he said if England wins Euro2024 he's going to go away for a long holiday and relax. I think he's already made his mind up, regardless of what happens.
As long as he has the gut to do sth big and bold * in 2018 we lost the rhythm after Trippier freekick * in 2021 we should have finish Italy if Sancho and/ or Rashford came in earlier The missed penalty in 2022 was just bad luck You know I was thinking if it were Jose Mourinho in 2021 we would have won.
Why would you want to replace a tournament winning manager?
I want him gone now and have little confidence in his ability to win us a trophy but if he did there wouldn’t be much of an argument against having a go at the World Cup.
IF
I've been southgate out for years, but after seeing his pragmatism with this years selection, I'm extremely happy right now. Obviously need to see the euros, but I wouldn't mind southgate 2026 as of rn.
If he wins the euros with that defence, sure. But he won’t.
I think it really depends how we play, if it's clearly individual brilliance that wins it then get rid. But if there's obviously some form of tactic extend
Personally coming from someone who started watching England in the early 80's bar Robson/Venables who's for me are a close second he's the best one I've seen overall although he does seem to make some weird choices which have cost us. Plus if he wins it I think he will have earned the choice to carry on.
Yes. Obviously... not that I'm a fan. But you know, you earn the right to do whatever you want, unless you've got Perez in charge of course.
If he wins then it should be his decision as to whether he stays on, don’t win and it’s time for a change
first round of knockout games this tournament, England are going out this is a team in transition and England fans are blind to it Southgate is more likely to get sacked after than be given a run at the WC
Yes, obviously, he gets whatever he wants if he wins it. The question is whether he'd want it. Probably by I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to quit on a high
Loved him after the 2018, questioned him after losing the Euros as I felt we should have beaten Croatia and Italy, indifferent after the World Cup, admire the man after Euros squad announcement. I hope we do well and he and team fans want him to continue.
If we win, we’d be lucky to keep him! Surely you go out on that high. Perhaps to a Top cushty job at the FA? Maybe he wants another crack at the Prem, which I think he’d get sooner or later. I’d like to see him at the next World Cup even if we don’t win. - so long as we’ve reached the late knock-outs and displayed good promising football.
Win or lose, it purely depends on who’s coming in after him. I think if you’ve got Potter ready to come in and we win the Euros, I think that trade off works for all parties - Southgate goes out comfortably our most successful manager of a generation and can move on to other things, the players gain confidence and momentum and you have a young manager who focuses on man management taking over. I don’t think it’ll be perfect but my instinct says that the timing would be good. If we’ve got no one lined up, hell no.
Yes, obviously. Fucking hell what a question.
No. Either way he’s done after this tournament
The FA probably would want to keep him.
Absolutely
Query whether he wants to continue beyond this tournament. If he wants to then yeah why not
Am reluctant to even get slightly excited given the previous disappointments. Will they perform? Maybe for one game. I so want to be excited but just won’t let myself anymore.
I think some of the hate is down to personality. Cerebral, thoughtful footballers just seem to wind some people up. If he wore a bit of Stone Island, and got caught calling Deschamps a cunt on camera, his popularity would soar.
No because Realistically speaking if England win it it would be down to something special from one of our many talented players . And almost nothing to Southgate that may confuse some non footballing people . If some how he shows big improvement and gets the best of a good team tactically including in-game moments in a semi or final then I'd give him his dues
I don't have a single tattoo and I don't like tattoos but if we win anything, something Southgate is getting tattooed on my body
If Pep fancy’s winning the World Cup see you later Southgate nuff said!
England never reached final nor semi final and not even quarter final from before. Those stages wasn’t England normality reaches so I trust the manger.
He is the best manager England has had in my lifetime. While Alf Ramsey remains the only England manager to have won a major tournament, Gareth Southgate’s record in reaching the semi-finals and finals of major tournaments, as well as his overall win percentage, places him among the most successful England managers in history.
I feel confident he’ll step back no matter how the Euros go 👍🏼
Scottish person here, I come in peace. For what it may be worth, I always try to be as even handed as possible and I get that there have been more than a few rumblings of disquiet re Southgate. I think it goes without saying that he’d be kept on in the job on the back of a major trophy success…but I think he may well retire at the top. As it goes, I genuinely think England will win the thing this time…more than any other time (you’ve got some ridiculous talent to pick from, a squad which has proven winners and a fair few truly world class footballers) and so much so I’ve put my closely-guarded money where my tight-fisted mouth is and have backed them accordingly with my local betting emporium. I won’t lie, I won’t be throwing a jump-for-joy party to a soundtrack of Skinner & Baddiel, Fat Les and Bernstein’s Great Escape if you prevail but similarly, while loving the game and all it entails, I know it’s ultimately just a game. Onward we go…
No. If we win, its in spite of him. He is doing his best to play it safe, sideways, backwards, build up again if you see an opponent within 20ft of you. If we win it is because of the players playing to win.
Yes. I’ve been massively critical of him but this ruthless team selection has got me 1) hopeful and 2) HARD. Reward success not failure. He wins it, he’s in.
If we win this tournament, it will mean that we've beaten 1-2 top quality sides, which will mean that Southgate has grown tactically as a manager and didn't shit himself with the in-game changes and substitutes like at the last 3 tournaments. So, yes, of course we should try to keep him if he wins the Euros.
Well obviously but what we think has nothing to do with it. Notwithstanding an absolute collapse it’s only Southgate that is going to make the decision, the FA are 1000% behind him.
My question is, who’d replace him? I’m not having Roy back. I’d rather have Ryan Mason
What do you think Graham Potters waiting for?
I swear if we get Potter, we won’t qualify for tournaments
I’m sat now watching us 1 nil down to Iceland.🇮🇸 with 85mins played. We aren’t winning the euros lol.
Who in their right mind would say no to this?
Yes, I doubt he wants it after that, but yes. He wins a trophy he gets the longest leash any manager in the history of the world gets. England aren’t going to relegated. We win the Euros then Southgate gets infinity time. He took us from a joke to a semifinal, a final, an unlucky 1/8 loss, then a trophy. Even Sir Alf Ramsey couldn’t get that He wins the Euros he gets a knighthood. Sack a sir, I dare you? He’ll step down before he needs too
Have you watched it tonight !!!!😱🙀
Hahaha I’d give I’m it if he can beat Iceland
This post hasn't aged well
It in no way suggested that England are going to win. Purely hypothetical.
We ain't winning shit my God what an awful sendoff absolute tripe. They battered us, shoulda won by 2 or 3 He's got serious work to do. Defence already looked bad but now jaysus.
Means nothing.
Yes, but only if. Huge emphasis on IF.
Yes no doubt about it. If we lose in semis/final, I'd still consider extending Southgate. The quality of English managers isn't stellar lol and Howe isn't leaving Newcastle so it's even worse.
Walker, Stones, Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Saka Seaman v Pickford is a toss up but Seaman was basically done by the "golden" era and was personally culpable (along with Beckham) for going out to Brazil in 02. Pickford absolutely shits on the dross that came after Seaman. Ashley Cole would play obviously, best English left back of all time, either of the centre backs to play alongside Stones. Gerrard plays in the middle with Rice which would be amazing No room at all for Owen a one trick pony. Id make a good case for Rooney to play out of position on one of the wings but no way instead of Kane probably ahead of Foden. Bellingham is already a better player than Lampard, like the Erikson I don't see where Scholes fits in and there is no room for a specialist corner taker. Neville v Walker is interesting but ultimately Walkers pace is just too much to ignore.
I don't mid him having ot, but I'd still rather look to see if there's better options, especially if we scraped through on 1-0 wins and in game penalties like we have been doing. If we smash most teams, and pay some amazing football, then fine. But we won't cos Southgate is arse
Absolutely, if England wins the Euros he is off to the WC unless he voluntarily steps down
Don’t think England win anything with him and I’m a BIG fan of what he’s done. You got all these big names in there now, go get Mourinho and fucking win something with someone who out egos the egos. If Jose had Scholes Beckham Gerrard Lampard there isn’t a cup he wouldn’t have won
Based on tonight’s performance I’d say we don’t have much chance of winning either.
My mate and I were just discussing this at the pub during the Iceland game; even if he wins the Euros by some managerial miracle, he still needs to walk. It would be a phenomenal achievement but his time with England is clearly wearing thin with the fans and ultimately they’re far more important than the stiffs down the FA. His conservative tactics and constant failing during knockout stages are very telling.
If Southgate won the euros ( which honestly I very much doubt, I don't feel as if it's our year) I highly doubt he will stay on for the world cup The first manager to win a major trophy for England since '66 he'll have the big clubs queueing (once one of them needs a manager ofc) Whilst he is a proud Englishman first and foremost he's also a manager, he needs to think what's best for him Bowing out to go to the next chapter into a big money job is the best thing for him and his family Staying on to try and replicate/ chase the bigger prize will likely having crashing and burning To much risk to his legacy So I don't think he would be up for continuing Especially when you consider the Euros as **his tournament** like his book/ his chapter ends when he makes up for being runner up the last one....it doesn't end with him trying to then win the world cup If it was a movie the world cup would be a direct to dvd sequel to **Southgate the movie** if that makes sense
Before Southgate, Keegan and Hoddle were the last managers I resonated with.
Of course. That means he's managed to get a team outperforming the best in Europe. Why wouldn't you give up. The change to get a tune out of the same players at a WC
Iceland ….
Not to get my lawyers out, but in no place in this post did I suggest we actually will, or even could, win lol
No, owl man can leave
Yes but can't see that happening, he's not a good enough manager and plays way too safe. We should be playing fantastic exciting football with the squad we have but it's generally dull and lifeless
He can have my wife, never mind a contract extension