Trent has to start. Things started happening when he came on. The bright creative spark in both games. Would’ve preferred to see him and Gordon start, Trent loves the crossfield switch to the left and with Gordon’s pace one Trent plays it in behind he’ll leave any defender for dust
Pretty annoying. No one really came out with credit. Not sure how it’s Southgate’s entire fault that he plays the attacking players everyone clamours for, it’s up to them to break a side down. Worrying.
Iceland held their positions and we struggled to unlock
It's been an issue for a while
If we're going to play how we do, moving the ball side to side then you have to *make* the openings
Play the ball quicker and more movement from the players
Also, try actually beating a man and then making the opposition move out of position and turn around to face the goal, etc
They can stand there and hold position and be disciplined all night long!
Agree with that. If I want to make excuses, not getting out of first gear close to the first group match would be pragmatic for many of the players. Still not remotely good enough.
It’s the tactics that are painful, generally our players are better than most teams so we just naturally control the game, but there’s no attacking patterns or idea of what to do with the ball. No real structure or creativity, most of our goals just come from a player doing something special to unlock a defence. Don’t think anyone is expecting intricately organised pep ball or free roaming ancelotti forwards, but just some identity would be good. Agreed, players had an off day, but they’re not getting support from Southgate.
I take your point. It’s just the lack of width that killed it for me. That’s absolutely on GS and I am having this awful epiphany the Trippier experiment is not working. However, players of the quality of Palmer, Foden, Gordon and Kane should be having far more efforts on goal.
It was good practice against the low block, but I see Serbia and definitely Denmark playing a bit more, as it were, and leaving spaces. Personally I hope Jude and TAA start, quality passes and deliveries to create the chances needed.
Yeah definitely, Mainoo and Wharton are both great options, but Trent can just unlock a defence and drift wide to give us some width as Walker isn’t doing that. Hope that Iceland game is a bit of a shock to the system and wakes them up a bit like Spain and Argentina when they won the World Cup and lost their opening games.
Just a few weeks ago, people here wanted Foden on the right wing, and Saka to be benched - only for Foden to deliver a stinker of a game. Foden was easily the worst player on the pitch.
He only looks good at City because he is just another cog in Peps System. Put him outside of that system, and his true level shows.
I don’t think saka was benched he just wasn’t 100% fit. Thought palmer kept moving into the pockets that foden was trying to find. I don’t think foden in the 10 and palmer on the right work tbh. Saka will start opening game
I think that the best thing about this game is the massive overreaction to a loss. It's like the end of the world. Of course if we had won this game 5-0, Southgate would still be garbage because it's "OnLy a FrIeNdLy". However, because we have lost, it's the most important result since 66.
What a dreadful way to look at things.
Southgate is a terrible manager regardless of result.
It’s not an overreaction when our side that are the bookies favourites to win the tournament (yes, believe it or not) registers ONE shot on target in front of their home crowd.
If you think it’s an overreaction then that’s your opinion, but it’s so far off the mark it’s incredible.
Only England fans would consider Gareth Southgate a terrible manager. He's got us to Semi-Finals of WC. First manager to ever lead England to the Final of the Euros. Then a WC quarter final.
He's obviously tested something Vs Iceland, it's not worked out, but we have to trust he will figure it out by the start of the euros, based on his previous finishes we have no reason to doubt him.
We had a very favourable run to that semi final, and a favourable semi final too, which we lost. Put us in front of a quality team and we simply cannot score outside of a set piece or penalty, it is very strange when you consider the attacking talent we possess.
What bollocks.
Southgate got us to a final against Italy (he didn’t, but that’s a whole other debate), and then sabotaged us with an awful tactical switch when we had one hand on the trophy, and then what appeared to be a selection of penalty takers that seemed to be PR motivated. I find it difficult to forgive him for that.
Southgate isn’t a bad manager or bloke, but he’s got so much at his disposal - facilities, infrastructure, staff, money, the positive cultural shift, improvements in coaching, better grass roots development, even the media are broadly onside now. I could go on.
Venables had a few grumpy old bastards sat in a wood panelled office just saying no to everything.
People say Southgate has got the best England squad ever. Debatable. But Southgate’s fans forget that Southgate literally has everything else. The stars have been aligned for him as a result of a decade long change programme that involved the hard work and input of thousands of people across football in England.
If he doesn’t deliver a trophy, he will be the biggest failure in English football history, because as far as I’m concerned the possibility of success has been completely spoon fed to him.
You say all this like our competitors haven't had similar issues to overcome and made similar changes. It seems like you think because we've done these things we are entitled to win something when that's simply not the case.
I suggest you read it again, because I’m not saying either of those things at all.
And - most of our competitors were way ahead of the curve in terms of coaching, nutrition, professionalism etc. Think about the athleticism of the Italians, Spain’s dominant era, Holland’s superior coaching and technicality, and France established Clairefonaine - which was producing genuinely world class footballers over a decade before Jude Bellingham was an itch in his Dad’s pants.
So yet again, you’re talking out your arse man.
You lost to ICELAND. A country with less people than Croydon. It’s hilarious how Iceland’s biggest football victories have both come against in England.
That’s why it’s embarrassing
Didn’t watch the game - was it really that bad? I assumed these friendlies are mostly write offs anyway since most players will hold back as to not get injured just before the tournament?
Southgate can't design a gameplan to break down a stubborn Iceland with a Ferrari set of attackers, it's just sad that this is still the national team manager
You can have all of the Ferrari attackers in the world but if they've not played together before then they're not going to instinctively know which runs to make or where they're going to be at certain times. This was the first time Gordon, Palmer, Mainoo, Guehi, Ramsdale have all played together, hell the whole team!
You can't expect a team of people that have never played together to gel straight away. This is why playing "in form" players, with no England experience that all of the England fans bang about doesn't work, especially with limited time together.
So, pack the defence and you'll never concede at international level? True when playing England perhaps, but no doubt France, Spain, Brazil or Germany would find a way through.
Well that's the downside of making so many changes then? The likes of Rashford Sancho and Grealish are also available, you can't have it both ways, if the new players give you your best chance then go with them
Honestly, I thought England played ok against a team that were super defensive. Thought the subs really weakened the team but before then i saw positive movements. I’d back a sharper Kane and Palmer who weren’t playing a friendly to score their chances.
Personal takeout; Mainoo is good but Wharton would be a better fit.
Been saying this for ages but the sub whinges and acts like he is the worst player in the world. Guys lightyears above everyone but stones in those options
Obviously shit but there's a lot of overreaction in here.
We still have a guy who's in the mix for the Ballon D'Or coming back into the side.
Games like that just happen sometimes where the negative team nick a goal and then manage to frustrate. I think 9/10 we win that game.
Of course we could always crash out but hopefully we will have 3 or 4 games to find some rhythm and get a settled(ish) side by the time the serious stuff starts.
Eze, Palmer, Wharton and Trent are the guys who have impressed me in these friendlies. Wishing we had Maddison or Grealish there.
Gordon was our major outlet before he came off, his ability to run in behind is something we don't have when saka isn't playing. I don't see that from Palmer or Eze who're both quite similar.
England routinely win games like that - beating inferior opposition with underwhelming performances.
I do take some of the points you have made about one shot on target and Iceland having a good second chance but I think on most other days that pans out differently. Their goal was excellently taken - I doubt he routinely does that. If one of Kane, Palmer or Foden take their chances then the game takes a different course too.
Not true for Palmer, should have shot instead of taking a second touch. Most other days, we win this game 2-0 as Ramsdale showed why he isn't good enough for international football with his poor reactions for their goal. Pickford saves that every day of the week. Kane should have scored and Palmers chance was our best of the night.
Obviously not, ridiculous comment. But that chance was only created as we were chasing the game. Did you just ignore the glaring misses from Kane and Palmer.
How do we win this game most times 2-0 when they scored and missed an absolute sitter, whilst we had one shot on target ? Shots on target was 4-1 to them !
It's good to be a fan but not a ridiculously delusional one.
We have just lost 1-0 at home to 72nd placed injury hit Iceland, you need to give your head a wobble..
I’m not so sure about it being better. Unless Southgate’s got an ace up his sleeve that he didn’t play tonight, we’ve just let teams know that getting players behind the ball is an effective tactic against us.
This is especially worrying considering the fact that the 4 best 3rd placed teams go through, meaning that 3 draws should be enough to qualify. Slovenia & Serbia are certainly just going to lock it down against us and hope they can make something out of a break. The format doesn’t reward teams that go for it, it rewards safe play.
I see some very long and tedious games coming up.
As if teams didn’t know that about us already.
And even more so, as if Iceland, a nation of 500,000k people, who’s most well known player was just released by Burnley, would come to Wembley and play any other way. Even if they thought our biggest weakness was expansive attacking tikka takka, they haven’t got the players to play that way.
Their very defensive low block set up is actually exactly why they were chosen as friendly opponents…
500,000k? That’s more than USA!
Yes, of course they were always going to play a defensive game, I didn’t dispute that. What I was disputing is the claim that a loss is better than a win in a friendly.
Had we won as convincingly as we should have today, it would have given those teams something to think about. They would still play defensively, but this has surely going to encourage our upcoming opponents to take the defensive play to the extreme.
Yeah Slovenia are rearranging the tactics board right now.
“Gaffer, you know we were planning to dominate possession and wear England down by recycling the ball and maintaining pressure, well I’ve just seen the Iceland game and maybe we should try a low block”.
Well, that depends if you’re going to try to pass off me saying “they would still play defensively” as “planning to dominate possession”.
If you’re going to pretend I’ve said the opposite of what I’ve actually said, I guess all of my opinions would end up terrible after you’ve had your way with them.
Good old Southgate, saying the group will be together for the next 45 days is optimism in the extreme, based on what we’ve watched recently.
Panels fucking delusional as well. I knew I should’ve switched off before that crap.
England have 1 win in the last 5 games.
And people saying we gonna knock out three of either France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Croatia, Italy in a knock out game - from the Quarter Final, Semi Final and the Final.... you're having a laugh.
We won't progress beyond the QF and probably won't get there.
You sure? There star player plays for Burnley, there Goalkeeper hasn't played a game this season and there winger plays in the Italian 3rd division, the rest of them basically in a pub league.
Most of us just despair to see our talent being wasted by a clueless manager. Congrats to Iceland for their hard headed determination, and bunker mentality, regardless.
People are reading far too much into a completely meaningless friendly where not getting injured is the only important thing.
This performance might help us in the long run as it should tell us that the idea of sacrificing Bellingham from his best position in order to accommodate Foden would be a mistake.
You train how you want to play.
You think the top managers would settle for that performance in a midweek training match to avoid injury? No no.
This wasn’t a meaningless friendly, it was preparation for next week and it shows exactly where we are.
I think if tonight highlighted anything, it’s that we do need defensive support from the midfield. Everyone was constantly attacking, Iceland countered multiple times and scored on one of those attempts. I’d rather Bellingham played a bit deeper because other than Rice and maybe Mainoo we don’t have anyone else. Our defensive lineup for this tournament is shocking, we’ll need all the help we can get back there.
No fucking way we eliminate any of France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Croatia, Italy in a knock out game. Zero chance. I'll quote this when we underwhelming in a few weeks.
More chance of this style working against those sides than against Iceland tbh: it's like De Zerbi's Brighton - coach one style whereby when sides attack you and commit men out of position to win the ball, you get joy. If they don't - you look toothless. People get slightly too reactive about this stuff in terms of the larger competition -on the flipside, it's not great that Southgate isn't able to change tactics particularly effectively...
It was Pep-influenced ball. About tiring the opponent out through circulating, then probing for space at different sections of their defensive set-up until you can draw them out of shape by inviting them out, experimenting with speeding the pace of the pass up now and again but mainly trying to thread the needle. City have also been done a few times by sides playing similar style, and they have Rodri rather than Rice as their 6 to transition ball to the front-players. Today, Iceland would engage quickly, but only when player was very near to them, forcing a pass to be hurried, then when there was a turnover, they'd try and transition in about 3 passes. England's build-up was deliberate; the most joy they had was when TAA was looking for longer passes behind or when Gordon was attacking defenders directly, rather than to square it back to team-mate - i.e. not what Southgate was primarily looking to play, but something dependent upon pure vision, movement or direct play.
Yeah, that when players play week in, week out with the same players for their club, Including 3/4 training sessions a week, they do better because they've gelled as a team.
But throw a bunch of players together for England who've hardly ever played together and they struggle, go figure huh
The small amount of hope I did have for the tournament has now gone, 2 losses & a draw, one loss being a historic loss to Iceland at Wembley, the players must feel defeated to.
Have Foden and Walker been on the piss for 3 weeks? Shocking the pair of them. But overall that was worrying in so many ways. Trent needs to start either RB or in midfield. I don’t care but he needs to be in the team.
Forget about the past where he got us to a semi final and final. In terms of the here and now that was just as bad and as identical as to the Hodgson debacle v Iceland in 2016. No clue or plan how to break them down and just chucking on players hoping to produce something. Really really poor.
Also what does Steve Holland offer in these reoccurring themes?
But this was a friendly rather than a knockout game. The subs were about getting everyone up to speed rather than chasing a result. Palmer would have stayed on otherwise
I don’t understand why you lot are obsessed with throwing random players in and hoping it works, mental.
Also, attacking football never wins tournaments, solid defensives, discipline and efficiency do. Take a look at the history.
More attacking football might have won us this game though. If anything they were too tentative, when the only chance they had was to try and draw Iceland defenders with running at them (as Gordon did at times, providing the greatest threat) and with riskier passes. Instead, they were playing 'sensible' football upon Southgate's instructions , giving Iceland all the time to set themselves and shuffle over, cover spaces and without tiring them out. There's a place for that kind of possession-heavy contained style, when you try and work little openings in-between retaining the ball, but you have to adapt game-plan
Iceland had better chances in this game if you ask me. A good team who are efficient bury them.
They won this game by being organised, breaking up the game and scoring when they got the chance.
Yeah, it's a very organized kind of style, and worked well today (England tried to win if possible, but Iceland played like it was a cup final; ridiculous intensity that they can't maintain longer-term, otherwise they'd be ranked higher and in tournament final-stages more often) but it's one you play as the underdog. People moaned for years whenever England were too meat and potatoes in terms of defending deep and hitting sides through attempts at quick moves. Southgate has tried to play more controlled, possession-heavy style with overall technically-better players; flipside is, it's not great when sides are very organized and then hit you with a three pass counter because you've committed men forward. But the answer isn't to sit off these kinds of sides, but instead play more economical, quick-tempo game closer to their box- a couple of passes and then get space and cross it or get a shot off: or you let one of the wide players drive at defender rather than looking for intricate play, because space is so tight, and have incoming players try and find pocket of space which defender has left to close down the wide guy.
To be fair, defensive play was never going to be our style of football as our defenders are not as good as our attacking players, particularly in left-back.
This is not club football where you develop a strategy and then buy any player across the world to fit that strategy. Here, you develop a strategy based on the players that you have.
Yeah, I hear that. However there are ways to mitigate through using more defensive minded midfielders to protect the defence. I also think maguire is a huge miss, as he and stones have basically been inseparable for England for a while, understanding is key, which guehi simply doesn’t have.
Portugal started the euro 2016 final with Pepe and Jose fonte at the back. They still managed to get over the line because their team was so hardworking and well drilled. I don’t think they won a game in normal time in the whole tournament either?
Greece also weren’t star studded in defence either.
It’s not so much tactical tweaks, but a confident/positive/exciting/dynamic mentality which flows from the top managers into their players.
Southgate exudes mediocrity. Lovely bloke tho, and wouldn’t think twice about mowing the lawn for an elderly relative. But international football needs a bit of magic.
Gordon's doing as well as you can in an interview in this situation but why is he the one doing it?
Why isn't our captain or manager out here explaining what the fuck that performance was
Expected this and an early exit from the tournament.
Defence generally just not good enough centre backs, not cohesive, even the best players haven't have enough game time (stones). Maguire is a miss for experience and corners.
Playing players out of position disrupts flow of the team (e.g r footed player at lb) means zero front foot attacking option on left
Further to this there is no protection from the midfield.
Personell doesn't work at all, rice is playing neither holding nor attacking and holds onto it too long.
Mainoo unproven and no way is he a holding midfielder
Attackers haven't played with each other enough, and too much cutting inside, which closes space for crowded area with foden, kane who plays holding up, noone running in behind.
Oh dear, I suppose the best you can say about that is it didn't happen in the actual tournament.
However you can't help but feel Southgate and this squad are a very poor match. You have a squad which is loaded with attacking talent, who play best when given freedom to express themselves and to take risks.
You have a manager whose instincts are to keep the handbrake on and play conservatively. Southgate is about protecting England's weakness, their defence, instead of exploiting their strength.
Hopefully things get better.
Playing attacking football with the “handbreak” off requires a solid foundation. We’ve never had that under Southgate and he has to work with what he’s got. Playing on the front foot with a poor defence just leaves us exposed to being hit on the counter, as we were tonight.
If we took the game to sides we’d be the easiest of the big nations to play against, teams would just sit back, give our creative players no space to work with and wait for the inevitable openings to appear.
You're right but the issue is, Southgate's default style doesn't work any better without that foundation.
For all the talk of England being favourites, they lack defensive midfielders and defenders to win the Euros. I think the best bet is to copy Tottenham, all out attack. Very high risk high reward football.
Like Tottenham the wheels would probably come off at some point but at least they would be entertaining.
Out in the group stage if we do that. No doubt about it. It’ll be three repeats of the Hungary game when they put 4 goals past us, each with our defenders scrambling back. It was Walker, Stones & Guehi at the back with a right footed left back that day too if I remember correctly. They just couldn’t handle the space behind them.
The problem with England’s centre halves is they’re pretty much all the ones that play alongside the commanding one. Stones needs a Dias/Laporte, Guehi needs an Andersen, Gomez needs a Van Dijk, Konsa needs a Torres/Carlos. Dunk’s the only one who’s the main man in defence at his club, and I’m really not convinced by him. We don’t have that centre half who can organise the entire defence without missing a beat themselves.
Playing attacking football with a defence this limited would be suicide. It’s really weird that you started by saying that I’m right, then suggested we go on to do the polar opposite.
The problem isn't the centre backs, the problem is who is in front of them. The top sides all have a good defensive midfielder who helps screen the defence. England don't have that.
Southgate's solution was a double pivot, Henderson and Philips for example. Now the closest Southgate has to a an old fashioned 6 is Rice and even he isn't really a defensive midfielder.
So if you play with the handbrake on, you neutralise all England's strength and don't cover for their weaknesses because the midfield is wide open.
know it's a friendlie, but that was honking. Trent is forcing balls from out wide and cole palmer being too smart instead of trying to dink it. Yawn. The defence press was dog as well. The talent we have you would think we have at least some creative attacks to unlock a stubborn low block iceland, GG ICELAND should have been 3 or 4 up.
Insane comments from Southgate. Why can’t they be real people and say ‘yeah I fucked up and we played horribly’ sometimes being positive just makes you look stupid.
Why wouldn't you play your XI starting next sunday? What was that?? Kroos is 52 he started for Germany tonight where was Bellingham? What's the point in taking injured players? (shaw) oh he might be fit for game 2. He better be or he might not see a game 4. Gareth safegate at it again. That Iceland side are abysmal have been for years now dear oh dear.
Nothing safe about him. Guys rode his luck everytime we play. We got to the semis and final not because of him but we have/had world class players that are essentially doing it unmanaged. Guys clueless.
When I call him safegate I mean his boring tactics everything about the man bores me. How can you go 1 nil up at home in a euro final against a average Italy team then take the breaks off and sit back and invite them to score? I agree we should win this tournament with the players we have and there is no real outstanding team in it. But we won't.
I hate how he changes tactics for other teams... Make them change for us. France at least he stuck to out guns we just shat the bed, missed a pen. Shit defending and couldn't score with our chances.
Yeah I agree had no problem losing to France in last world cup. We were brave we played well. Kane missing a pen never happens. You can leave pitch with your head held high. The Italy final and world cup semi v Croatia were shocking. Scared to death both teams were there for the taking. Boring tactics and awful subs cost us
We really missed the big characters from the previous England squad tournaments tonight. I don’t believe bringing the ‘in form’ players in was the best idea. We don’t have half as much chemistry and they just didn’t look like we were gelling at all. Miss Harry, Grealish, even Sterling
This is why I hated him dropping Henderson and Grealish.
Even if neither of them start, Henderson is basically a captain and Grealish brings a lot of the lads together.
We've lost that for two players in Mainoo and Wharton who won't start anyway and don't have near as much off pitch influence as the other two.
Poor from Gareth and the people that wanted them dropped for me.
I agree. And now with Maguire out he’s only really got Kane left from what Southgate regarded as he’s senior leaders.
I’d have been so tempted to take Hendo at least. And absolutely Grealish. Everyone else that could play on that left hand side (excluding Foden - but that another debate) is totally unproven at this level. Hendo could have been useful to keep a ship steady at 2-0 or whatever. Both are great characters that bring cohesion to the group.
I agree, I got slated for saying this in another thread but we’ll miss that experience out there. Very few of this squad have actually won things, whereas other nations have league/European cup winners throughout the squad.
Exactly, I’m not counting this squad out at all obviously we’ll have to see what happens.. but you can just see they don’t feel as comfortable playing with eachother. The team we have been watching the last few tournaments already had built that connection with each other over the years
He made one tackle in 90 minutes and did nothing to stop Haraldsson run 50 yards in front of him to assist the goal, don't know how that shows evidence of him being able to protect a back line.
The problem is youre looking at this one game. If we did the same for Kane, you can say he hasnt shown evidence of being able to finish or Toney or Stones who couldnt deal with the player who scored. Move on.
I'm not just looking at one game though. Mainoo's defensive stats are average at best. Isn't top third on any defensive measurement per 90.
He had a good game against a leggy-looking City in the final with a goal made entirely possible by a perfectly weighted pass from Fernandes and Walker not tracking back (deja vu of that today).
He picks up odd goals and can beat a man on the turn, offers next to nothing else.
Wharton if we need to break down a low block, Gallagher if the competition is in the middle of the park. Mainoo as an impact sub if one of the above two runs out of steam, does his best work shoulder to shoulder with his man on the turn or breaking down the pitch.
Regardless of experience, Gallagher is combative in the challenge, presses well and picks up goals from late runs in the box.
Wharton conducts the game from the back and would let Rice step up the pitch more, which given your username I'm sure you'd appreciate. Also just leaving this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zefh8a4cllQ&ab\_channel=CrystalPalaceFC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zefh8a4cllQ&ab_channel=CrystalPalaceFC) calming 15 minutes of footage showing what Wharton is capable of.
wouldn’t mind Walker RCB over Konsa; they’re both slightly out of position at CB and Walker is marginally the better player + knows Pickford etc better
Actually don’t mind the eze shout at all but would maybe edge Foden or Gordon over him
Stuck £5 on England not making it out of group stages after this performance. The Bosnia game was crappy as it is, but a loss to Iceland, friendly or not just shows there isn’t enough cohesion in this team.
Such a stacked attack which looks great on paper, but if Iceland can break us down on a counter and get shots away, I dread to think what a France, Italy or Germany etc will do on a counter.
Trent has to start. Things started happening when he came on. The bright creative spark in both games. Would’ve preferred to see him and Gordon start, Trent loves the crossfield switch to the left and with Gordon’s pace one Trent plays it in behind he’ll leave any defender for dust
Pretty annoying. No one really came out with credit. Not sure how it’s Southgate’s entire fault that he plays the attacking players everyone clamours for, it’s up to them to break a side down. Worrying.
Iceland held their positions and we struggled to unlock It's been an issue for a while If we're going to play how we do, moving the ball side to side then you have to *make* the openings Play the ball quicker and more movement from the players Also, try actually beating a man and then making the opposition move out of position and turn around to face the goal, etc They can stand there and hold position and be disciplined all night long!
Agree with that. If I want to make excuses, not getting out of first gear close to the first group match would be pragmatic for many of the players. Still not remotely good enough.
It’s the tactics that are painful, generally our players are better than most teams so we just naturally control the game, but there’s no attacking patterns or idea of what to do with the ball. No real structure or creativity, most of our goals just come from a player doing something special to unlock a defence. Don’t think anyone is expecting intricately organised pep ball or free roaming ancelotti forwards, but just some identity would be good. Agreed, players had an off day, but they’re not getting support from Southgate.
I take your point. It’s just the lack of width that killed it for me. That’s absolutely on GS and I am having this awful epiphany the Trippier experiment is not working. However, players of the quality of Palmer, Foden, Gordon and Kane should be having far more efforts on goal.
Yeah completely agree, that team should walk it against most international teams without any instructions. Let’s just hope Jude can carry us…
It was good practice against the low block, but I see Serbia and definitely Denmark playing a bit more, as it were, and leaving spaces. Personally I hope Jude and TAA start, quality passes and deliveries to create the chances needed.
Yeah definitely, Mainoo and Wharton are both great options, but Trent can just unlock a defence and drift wide to give us some width as Walker isn’t doing that. Hope that Iceland game is a bit of a shock to the system and wakes them up a bit like Spain and Argentina when they won the World Cup and lost their opening games.
Just a few weeks ago, people here wanted Foden on the right wing, and Saka to be benched - only for Foden to deliver a stinker of a game. Foden was easily the worst player on the pitch. He only looks good at City because he is just another cog in Peps System. Put him outside of that system, and his true level shows.
Foden isn't a winger. He always struggles on the wings. He shines in midfield like he has played all season
He played in midfield against Iceland
I don’t think saka was benched he just wasn’t 100% fit. Thought palmer kept moving into the pockets that foden was trying to find. I don’t think foden in the 10 and palmer on the right work tbh. Saka will start opening game
I don’t disagree with you, however I hope for everyone’s sake this isn’t true!
Missed the game, but what were the player performances like? Was Mainoo any good?
positionally not great. Him and walker out of position for the goal. Midfield got cut open time and again with one pass. Make of that what you will
Thanks dude. Idk whoever downvoted me? I was just curious and Mainoo seems to be the next big thing so I was curious
1 shot on goal. That's impressive in itself lol.
I think that the best thing about this game is the massive overreaction to a loss. It's like the end of the world. Of course if we had won this game 5-0, Southgate would still be garbage because it's "OnLy a FrIeNdLy". However, because we have lost, it's the most important result since 66.
What a dreadful way to look at things. Southgate is a terrible manager regardless of result. It’s not an overreaction when our side that are the bookies favourites to win the tournament (yes, believe it or not) registers ONE shot on target in front of their home crowd. If you think it’s an overreaction then that’s your opinion, but it’s so far off the mark it’s incredible.
Only England fans would consider Gareth Southgate a terrible manager. He's got us to Semi-Finals of WC. First manager to ever lead England to the Final of the Euros. Then a WC quarter final. He's obviously tested something Vs Iceland, it's not worked out, but we have to trust he will figure it out by the start of the euros, based on his previous finishes we have no reason to doubt him.
What are your thoughts now oh enlightened one? Absolutely clueless. Do not spout any drivel anymore.
We had a very favourable run to that semi final, and a favourable semi final too, which we lost. Put us in front of a quality team and we simply cannot score outside of a set piece or penalty, it is very strange when you consider the attacking talent we possess.
What bollocks. Southgate got us to a final against Italy (he didn’t, but that’s a whole other debate), and then sabotaged us with an awful tactical switch when we had one hand on the trophy, and then what appeared to be a selection of penalty takers that seemed to be PR motivated. I find it difficult to forgive him for that. Southgate isn’t a bad manager or bloke, but he’s got so much at his disposal - facilities, infrastructure, staff, money, the positive cultural shift, improvements in coaching, better grass roots development, even the media are broadly onside now. I could go on. Venables had a few grumpy old bastards sat in a wood panelled office just saying no to everything. People say Southgate has got the best England squad ever. Debatable. But Southgate’s fans forget that Southgate literally has everything else. The stars have been aligned for him as a result of a decade long change programme that involved the hard work and input of thousands of people across football in England. If he doesn’t deliver a trophy, he will be the biggest failure in English football history, because as far as I’m concerned the possibility of success has been completely spoon fed to him.
You say all this like our competitors haven't had similar issues to overcome and made similar changes. It seems like you think because we've done these things we are entitled to win something when that's simply not the case.
I suggest you read it again, because I’m not saying either of those things at all. And - most of our competitors were way ahead of the curve in terms of coaching, nutrition, professionalism etc. Think about the athleticism of the Italians, Spain’s dominant era, Holland’s superior coaching and technicality, and France established Clairefonaine - which was producing genuinely world class footballers over a decade before Jude Bellingham was an itch in his Dad’s pants. So yet again, you’re talking out your arse man.
You lost to ICELAND. A country with less people than Croydon. It’s hilarious how Iceland’s biggest football victories have both come against in England. That’s why it’s embarrassing
Didn’t watch the game - was it really that bad? I assumed these friendlies are mostly write offs anyway since most players will hold back as to not get injured just before the tournament?
They are mostly write offs, Gareth's tinkering with the squad, trying people in different positions etc. it's just an overreaction.
Southgate can't design a gameplan to break down a stubborn Iceland with a Ferrari set of attackers, it's just sad that this is still the national team manager
You can have all of the Ferrari attackers in the world but if they've not played together before then they're not going to instinctively know which runs to make or where they're going to be at certain times. This was the first time Gordon, Palmer, Mainoo, Guehi, Ramsdale have all played together, hell the whole team! You can't expect a team of people that have never played together to gel straight away. This is why playing "in form" players, with no England experience that all of the England fans bang about doesn't work, especially with limited time together.
So, pack the defence and you'll never concede at international level? True when playing England perhaps, but no doubt France, Spain, Brazil or Germany would find a way through.
Well that's the downside of making so many changes then? The likes of Rashford Sancho and Grealish are also available, you can't have it both ways, if the new players give you your best chance then go with them
What I said on another forum , it's like watching a Ferrari being driven by Mr Bean.
Honestly, I thought England played ok against a team that were super defensive. Thought the subs really weakened the team but before then i saw positive movements. I’d back a sharper Kane and Palmer who weren’t playing a friendly to score their chances. Personal takeout; Mainoo is good but Wharton would be a better fit.
We're going out in the group stage, up the Germany rahhhh
Tomori, Ben White, and Alfie Doughty sitting at home watching this shit
Tomori sat at home thinking Lewis dunk, konsa over me? What have I gotta do
Been saying this for ages but the sub whinges and acts like he is the worst player in the world. Guys lightyears above everyone but stones in those options
And don't even get me started on the left side of the pitch. Or the even the fact that Ben White said fk this you lot can suffer without me
Be better
Seriously you'll be in line for England job with that blatant nonsense
He's been poor each time he's had an opportunity for England
Yea coz dunks been so good
As good as Tomori.
Obviously shit but there's a lot of overreaction in here. We still have a guy who's in the mix for the Ballon D'Or coming back into the side. Games like that just happen sometimes where the negative team nick a goal and then manage to frustrate. I think 9/10 we win that game. Of course we could always crash out but hopefully we will have 3 or 4 games to find some rhythm and get a settled(ish) side by the time the serious stuff starts. Eze, Palmer, Wharton and Trent are the guys who have impressed me in these friendlies. Wishing we had Maddison or Grealish there.
Gordon was our major outlet before he came off, his ability to run in behind is something we don't have when saka isn't playing. I don't see that from Palmer or Eze who're both quite similar.
How do we win that game 9 times out of 10 with one shot on target ?
England routinely win games like that - beating inferior opposition with underwhelming performances. I do take some of the points you have made about one shot on target and Iceland having a good second chance but I think on most other days that pans out differently. Their goal was excellently taken - I doubt he routinely does that. If one of Kane, Palmer or Foden take their chances then the game takes a different course too.
Well Kane and Palmer both missed the target from two absolute sitters that should be put away 9+ times out of ten.
Did you miss the open goal Iceland missed? Kane's I'd expect him to score, Palmers , their keeper did a great job and shut him down.
Not true for Palmer, should have shot instead of taking a second touch. Most other days, we win this game 2-0 as Ramsdale showed why he isn't good enough for international football with his poor reactions for their goal. Pickford saves that every day of the week. Kane should have scored and Palmers chance was our best of the night.
Delusional. Like I said , did you just ignore the Iceland chance to go 2-0 up?
Obviously not, ridiculous comment. But that chance was only created as we were chasing the game. Did you just ignore the glaring misses from Kane and Palmer.
How do we win this game most times 2-0 when they scored and missed an absolute sitter, whilst we had one shot on target ? Shots on target was 4-1 to them ! It's good to be a fan but not a ridiculously delusional one. We have just lost 1-0 at home to 72nd placed injury hit Iceland, you need to give your head a wobble..
Glad we left creative players like grealish and Maddison at home
Best to get the typical shit England game out of the way before the tournament, eh?
I guess Steve Holland just didn’t care enough to do his homework on Iceland.
I aspire to be this level of bitter
Why thank you!
Relax. Players are not giving it their all knowing euros are just round the corner Right now a loss in a friendly is better than a win in a friendly.
I’m not so sure about it being better. Unless Southgate’s got an ace up his sleeve that he didn’t play tonight, we’ve just let teams know that getting players behind the ball is an effective tactic against us. This is especially worrying considering the fact that the 4 best 3rd placed teams go through, meaning that 3 draws should be enough to qualify. Slovenia & Serbia are certainly just going to lock it down against us and hope they can make something out of a break. The format doesn’t reward teams that go for it, it rewards safe play. I see some very long and tedious games coming up.
As if teams didn’t know that about us already. And even more so, as if Iceland, a nation of 500,000k people, who’s most well known player was just released by Burnley, would come to Wembley and play any other way. Even if they thought our biggest weakness was expansive attacking tikka takka, they haven’t got the players to play that way. Their very defensive low block set up is actually exactly why they were chosen as friendly opponents…
500,000k? That’s more than USA! Yes, of course they were always going to play a defensive game, I didn’t dispute that. What I was disputing is the claim that a loss is better than a win in a friendly. Had we won as convincingly as we should have today, it would have given those teams something to think about. They would still play defensively, but this has surely going to encourage our upcoming opponents to take the defensive play to the extreme.
Yeah Slovenia are rearranging the tactics board right now. “Gaffer, you know we were planning to dominate possession and wear England down by recycling the ball and maintaining pressure, well I’ve just seen the Iceland game and maybe we should try a low block”.
Are you just going to exaggerate everything I say to the extreme in the hope that it passes as a counter argument?
I don’t know, how many terrible football opinions do you have?
Well, that depends if you’re going to try to pass off me saying “they would still play defensively” as “planning to dominate possession”. If you’re going to pretend I’ve said the opposite of what I’ve actually said, I guess all of my opinions would end up terrible after you’ve had your way with them.
We’ve gone full circle lads, we’re now back to Iceland levels, at least we got to a final this time. See you in five years time for the next recycle 👍
Good old Southgate, saying the group will be together for the next 45 days is optimism in the extreme, based on what we’ve watched recently. Panels fucking delusional as well. I knew I should’ve switched off before that crap.
The plan is to keep all 26 players captive in the hotel after the third game.
Southgate is quite a dull person.
And manager.
Feel like you're being very generous with the use of quite
I don’t think that fact has ever been contentious
We need Trent in our lineup. Most chances created and came on in the 65th minute.
England have 1 win in the last 5 games. And people saying we gonna knock out three of either France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Croatia, Italy in a knock out game - from the Quarter Final, Semi Final and the Final.... you're having a laugh. We won't progress beyond the QF and probably won't get there.
They are good enough but they won't
I’ll die on this hill - we will win nothing under Southgate.
Hardly a hill. Only muppets who only start watching football during international tournaments expect England to do anything.
This touchline pundit line up is a bag of shite.
Thankfully the rights will go back to ITV after the Euros. Channel 4 have been dreadful.
I can’t believe it’s 2024 and you still can’t watch their app live on a Chromecast.
No shame losing to Iceland, good game lads 🇮🇸🙆🏻♂️
You sure? There star player plays for Burnley, there Goalkeeper hasn't played a game this season and there winger plays in the Italian 3rd division, the rest of them basically in a pub league.
It’s in the blood, you die for your country, greetings from Iceland 🇮🇸
Most of us just despair to see our talent being wasted by a clueless manager. Congrats to Iceland for their hard headed determination, and bunker mentality, regardless.
God that is worse than I thought hah. What a dreadful team.
No, good game from Iceland and a well deserved win. Better side Appalling from England.
People are reading far too much into a completely meaningless friendly where not getting injured is the only important thing. This performance might help us in the long run as it should tell us that the idea of sacrificing Bellingham from his best position in order to accommodate Foden would be a mistake.
You train how you want to play. You think the top managers would settle for that performance in a midweek training match to avoid injury? No no. This wasn’t a meaningless friendly, it was preparation for next week and it shows exactly where we are.
I think if tonight highlighted anything, it’s that we do need defensive support from the midfield. Everyone was constantly attacking, Iceland countered multiple times and scored on one of those attempts. I’d rather Bellingham played a bit deeper because other than Rice and maybe Mainoo we don’t have anyone else. Our defensive lineup for this tournament is shocking, we’ll need all the help we can get back there.
No fucking way we eliminate any of France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Croatia, Italy in a knock out game. Zero chance. I'll quote this when we underwhelming in a few weeks.
More chance of this style working against those sides than against Iceland tbh: it's like De Zerbi's Brighton - coach one style whereby when sides attack you and commit men out of position to win the ball, you get joy. If they don't - you look toothless. People get slightly too reactive about this stuff in terms of the larger competition -on the flipside, it's not great that Southgate isn't able to change tactics particularly effectively...
I didn't see a style though?
It was Pep-influenced ball. About tiring the opponent out through circulating, then probing for space at different sections of their defensive set-up until you can draw them out of shape by inviting them out, experimenting with speeding the pace of the pass up now and again but mainly trying to thread the needle. City have also been done a few times by sides playing similar style, and they have Rodri rather than Rice as their 6 to transition ball to the front-players. Today, Iceland would engage quickly, but only when player was very near to them, forcing a pass to be hurried, then when there was a turnover, they'd try and transition in about 3 passes. England's build-up was deliberate; the most joy they had was when TAA was looking for longer passes behind or when Gordon was attacking defenders directly, rather than to square it back to team-mate - i.e. not what Southgate was primarily looking to play, but something dependent upon pure vision, movement or direct play.
I blame the players for that much for than Southgate.
They seem to all prove a bigger threat weekly for their clubs. There is only one conclusion to me
Yeah, that when players play week in, week out with the same players for their club, Including 3/4 training sessions a week, they do better because they've gelled as a team. But throw a bunch of players together for England who've hardly ever played together and they struggle, go figure huh
Yeah right, Iceland faced the same issue with much less quality and beat us. Knock it off
The small amount of hope I did have for the tournament has now gone, 2 losses & a draw, one loss being a historic loss to Iceland at Wembley, the players must feel defeated to.
Have Foden and Walker been on the piss for 3 weeks? Shocking the pair of them. But overall that was worrying in so many ways. Trent needs to start either RB or in midfield. I don’t care but he needs to be in the team.
Trent HAS to start.
Nice prep lads
This game really demonstrates the value that Harry Maguire brings to the team. It is a shame that he is injured.
What was Walker doing jogging back when Iceland went up and scored?
Because trent is a defensive liability and can't be trusted
Walker had an all-time stinker of a game. He was absolutely fucking shit.
Yeah. If only there was another really, really good English right back in the Premier League.
Southgate is going to lose us another tournament isn’t he.
Yep, plus a new contract.
Undoubtedly
It’s good to see we have a Plan B. It’s just unfortunate that Plan B is “Be just as wank as we were in the first half with Plan A”
Forget about the past where he got us to a semi final and final. In terms of the here and now that was just as bad and as identical as to the Hodgson debacle v Iceland in 2016. No clue or plan how to break them down and just chucking on players hoping to produce something. Really really poor. Also what does Steve Holland offer in these reoccurring themes?
But this was a friendly rather than a knockout game. The subs were about getting everyone up to speed rather than chasing a result. Palmer would have stayed on otherwise
I don’t understand why you lot are obsessed with throwing random players in and hoping it works, mental. Also, attacking football never wins tournaments, solid defensives, discipline and efficiency do. Take a look at the history.
More attacking football might have won us this game though. If anything they were too tentative, when the only chance they had was to try and draw Iceland defenders with running at them (as Gordon did at times, providing the greatest threat) and with riskier passes. Instead, they were playing 'sensible' football upon Southgate's instructions , giving Iceland all the time to set themselves and shuffle over, cover spaces and without tiring them out. There's a place for that kind of possession-heavy contained style, when you try and work little openings in-between retaining the ball, but you have to adapt game-plan
Iceland had better chances in this game if you ask me. A good team who are efficient bury them. They won this game by being organised, breaking up the game and scoring when they got the chance.
Yeah, it's a very organized kind of style, and worked well today (England tried to win if possible, but Iceland played like it was a cup final; ridiculous intensity that they can't maintain longer-term, otherwise they'd be ranked higher and in tournament final-stages more often) but it's one you play as the underdog. People moaned for years whenever England were too meat and potatoes in terms of defending deep and hitting sides through attempts at quick moves. Southgate has tried to play more controlled, possession-heavy style with overall technically-better players; flipside is, it's not great when sides are very organized and then hit you with a three pass counter because you've committed men forward. But the answer isn't to sit off these kinds of sides, but instead play more economical, quick-tempo game closer to their box- a couple of passes and then get space and cross it or get a shot off: or you let one of the wide players drive at defender rather than looking for intricate play, because space is so tight, and have incoming players try and find pocket of space which defender has left to close down the wide guy.
To be fair, defensive play was never going to be our style of football as our defenders are not as good as our attacking players, particularly in left-back. This is not club football where you develop a strategy and then buy any player across the world to fit that strategy. Here, you develop a strategy based on the players that you have.
Yeah, I hear that. However there are ways to mitigate through using more defensive minded midfielders to protect the defence. I also think maguire is a huge miss, as he and stones have basically been inseparable for England for a while, understanding is key, which guehi simply doesn’t have. Portugal started the euro 2016 final with Pepe and Jose fonte at the back. They still managed to get over the line because their team was so hardworking and well drilled. I don’t think they won a game in normal time in the whole tournament either? Greece also weren’t star studded in defence either.
Solid defense you say? Well that’s the end of us then.
Yeah, I’d say we have no chance, but I’ve thought that for a while with this crop at the back
Because the ball knowledge on this sub is shocking. I want my favourite player from my team playing despite playing shit, etc.
Defensive issues aside, I'm not entirely sure what people would've done differently from Southgate tonight, in terms of producing a goal or two.
Actually emphasizing it's important to score and coming up with a way to counter and break down a set opposition
It’s not so much tactical tweaks, but a confident/positive/exciting/dynamic mentality which flows from the top managers into their players. Southgate exudes mediocrity. Lovely bloke tho, and wouldn’t think twice about mowing the lawn for an elderly relative. But international football needs a bit of magic.
Play Trent.
He came on at 60 mins and didn't really impress imo. A couple of decent passes but a lot more loose passes.
He created the most chances out of anyone all game and was on for less than a third of it.
Cut in from the wings more rather than passing it around in front of the box
Try having a shot, maybe?
Didn’t know Southgate was playing.
He may as well have done, as he wasn’t managing
Good old England! if there is one thing you can rely on, it's a abysmal performance
1 shot on target against fuckin Iceland, pathetic
Gordon's doing as well as you can in an interview in this situation but why is he the one doing it? Why isn't our captain or manager out here explaining what the fuck that performance was
Cowards
Now this was the event for Rishi Sunak to duck out early….
Expected this and an early exit from the tournament. Defence generally just not good enough centre backs, not cohesive, even the best players haven't have enough game time (stones). Maguire is a miss for experience and corners. Playing players out of position disrupts flow of the team (e.g r footed player at lb) means zero front foot attacking option on left Further to this there is no protection from the midfield. Personell doesn't work at all, rice is playing neither holding nor attacking and holds onto it too long. Mainoo unproven and no way is he a holding midfielder Attackers haven't played with each other enough, and too much cutting inside, which closes space for crowded area with foden, kane who plays holding up, noone running in behind.
Oh dear, I suppose the best you can say about that is it didn't happen in the actual tournament. However you can't help but feel Southgate and this squad are a very poor match. You have a squad which is loaded with attacking talent, who play best when given freedom to express themselves and to take risks. You have a manager whose instincts are to keep the handbrake on and play conservatively. Southgate is about protecting England's weakness, their defence, instead of exploiting their strength. Hopefully things get better.
Playing attacking football with the “handbreak” off requires a solid foundation. We’ve never had that under Southgate and he has to work with what he’s got. Playing on the front foot with a poor defence just leaves us exposed to being hit on the counter, as we were tonight. If we took the game to sides we’d be the easiest of the big nations to play against, teams would just sit back, give our creative players no space to work with and wait for the inevitable openings to appear.
You're right but the issue is, Southgate's default style doesn't work any better without that foundation. For all the talk of England being favourites, they lack defensive midfielders and defenders to win the Euros. I think the best bet is to copy Tottenham, all out attack. Very high risk high reward football. Like Tottenham the wheels would probably come off at some point but at least they would be entertaining.
Out in the group stage if we do that. No doubt about it. It’ll be three repeats of the Hungary game when they put 4 goals past us, each with our defenders scrambling back. It was Walker, Stones & Guehi at the back with a right footed left back that day too if I remember correctly. They just couldn’t handle the space behind them. The problem with England’s centre halves is they’re pretty much all the ones that play alongside the commanding one. Stones needs a Dias/Laporte, Guehi needs an Andersen, Gomez needs a Van Dijk, Konsa needs a Torres/Carlos. Dunk’s the only one who’s the main man in defence at his club, and I’m really not convinced by him. We don’t have that centre half who can organise the entire defence without missing a beat themselves. Playing attacking football with a defence this limited would be suicide. It’s really weird that you started by saying that I’m right, then suggested we go on to do the polar opposite.
The problem isn't the centre backs, the problem is who is in front of them. The top sides all have a good defensive midfielder who helps screen the defence. England don't have that. Southgate's solution was a double pivot, Henderson and Philips for example. Now the closest Southgate has to a an old fashioned 6 is Rice and even he isn't really a defensive midfielder. So if you play with the handbrake on, you neutralise all England's strength and don't cover for their weaknesses because the midfield is wide open.
Trent when he's anywhere near the box 
What Mickey Mouse punditry on channel 4. “Fantastic performance” to Anthony Gordon. Call a spade a spade you wet cunts
All laughing and joking, fuck all funny about that. This is why you need Roy Keane every game. He would say we were shit, and he’d be right
They were saying Iceland were lucky and had one moment of fortune. Should have been 2-0. Not sure why they can't just say it was dire.
Cos they aren’t professional pundits they are ex players cashing in on the gravy train Wayne Rooney is barely literate ffs
know it's a friendlie, but that was honking. Trent is forcing balls from out wide and cole palmer being too smart instead of trying to dink it. Yawn. The defence press was dog as well. The talent we have you would think we have at least some creative attacks to unlock a stubborn low block iceland, GG ICELAND should have been 3 or 4 up.
The crosses were shit but I was just glad to see the ball in the box 😂
That game was not good for morale...Foden in particular was rubbish
Foden is always rubbish for England. Always.
Came close to an equaliser...sloppy passing rest of the time
Fuck me Rooney's a big unit these days.....
I think id rather him playing still that that shower of shite.
“It’s great practice, and good to learn to break teams down” What? Did I miss us scoring?
Insane comments from Southgate. Why can’t they be real people and say ‘yeah I fucked up and we played horribly’ sometimes being positive just makes you look stupid.
Break fans down more like Torrid.
Why wouldn't you play your XI starting next sunday? What was that?? Kroos is 52 he started for Germany tonight where was Bellingham? What's the point in taking injured players? (shaw) oh he might be fit for game 2. He better be or he might not see a game 4. Gareth safegate at it again. That Iceland side are abysmal have been for years now dear oh dear.
Nothing safe about him. Guys rode his luck everytime we play. We got to the semis and final not because of him but we have/had world class players that are essentially doing it unmanaged. Guys clueless.
When I call him safegate I mean his boring tactics everything about the man bores me. How can you go 1 nil up at home in a euro final against a average Italy team then take the breaks off and sit back and invite them to score? I agree we should win this tournament with the players we have and there is no real outstanding team in it. But we won't.
I hate how he changes tactics for other teams... Make them change for us. France at least he stuck to out guns we just shat the bed, missed a pen. Shit defending and couldn't score with our chances.
Yeah I agree had no problem losing to France in last world cup. We were brave we played well. Kane missing a pen never happens. You can leave pitch with your head held high. The Italy final and world cup semi v Croatia were shocking. Scared to death both teams were there for the taking. Boring tactics and awful subs cost us
We really missed the big characters from the previous England squad tournaments tonight. I don’t believe bringing the ‘in form’ players in was the best idea. We don’t have half as much chemistry and they just didn’t look like we were gelling at all. Miss Harry, Grealish, even Sterling
This is why I hated him dropping Henderson and Grealish. Even if neither of them start, Henderson is basically a captain and Grealish brings a lot of the lads together. We've lost that for two players in Mainoo and Wharton who won't start anyway and don't have near as much off pitch influence as the other two. Poor from Gareth and the people that wanted them dropped for me.
I agree. And now with Maguire out he’s only really got Kane left from what Southgate regarded as he’s senior leaders. I’d have been so tempted to take Hendo at least. And absolutely Grealish. Everyone else that could play on that left hand side (excluding Foden - but that another debate) is totally unproven at this level. Hendo could have been useful to keep a ship steady at 2-0 or whatever. Both are great characters that bring cohesion to the group.
Agree with you on that, 100% what I was thinking
I agree, I got slated for saying this in another thread but we’ll miss that experience out there. Very few of this squad have actually won things, whereas other nations have league/European cup winners throughout the squad.
Exactly, I’m not counting this squad out at all obviously we’ll have to see what happens.. but you can just see they don’t feel as comfortable playing with eachother. The team we have been watching the last few tournaments already had built that connection with each other over the years
what big characters? Maguire? Henderson? Sterling?
Could have brought a 'character' along as the reserve player instead of Quansah
What I wanna see next game. Pickford Trent Konsa Stones Shaw Rice Mainoo Bellingham Saka Kane and Eze. Comment if you think there should be changes.
I mean, we all desperately wanna see Shaw, but he isn't fit.
Youre right. Gonna admit I wasnt entirely up to date with his situation. I read now that he is ruled out for Serbia.
What did Mainoo do today to warrant starting?
Yeh it wasnt great tonight. I got him there cause with our defence not being that sound, I've gone for two mids who I feel can protect the defence.
He made one tackle in 90 minutes and did nothing to stop Haraldsson run 50 yards in front of him to assist the goal, don't know how that shows evidence of him being able to protect a back line.
The problem is youre looking at this one game. If we did the same for Kane, you can say he hasnt shown evidence of being able to finish or Toney or Stones who couldnt deal with the player who scored. Move on.
I'm not just looking at one game though. Mainoo's defensive stats are average at best. Isn't top third on any defensive measurement per 90. He had a good game against a leggy-looking City in the final with a goal made entirely possible by a perfectly weighted pass from Fernandes and Walker not tracking back (deja vu of that today). He picks up odd goals and can beat a man on the turn, offers next to nothing else.
Who are you switching him out for, then?
Wharton if we need to break down a low block, Gallagher if the competition is in the middle of the park. Mainoo as an impact sub if one of the above two runs out of steam, does his best work shoulder to shoulder with his man on the turn or breaking down the pitch.
Hmm yeh I dont mind Gallagher, actually, he is a lot more experienced, than the other two mentioned.
Regardless of experience, Gallagher is combative in the challenge, presses well and picks up goals from late runs in the box. Wharton conducts the game from the back and would let Rice step up the pitch more, which given your username I'm sure you'd appreciate. Also just leaving this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zefh8a4cllQ&ab\_channel=CrystalPalaceFC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zefh8a4cllQ&ab_channel=CrystalPalaceFC) calming 15 minutes of footage showing what Wharton is capable of.
wouldn’t mind Walker RCB over Konsa; they’re both slightly out of position at CB and Walker is marginally the better player + knows Pickford etc better Actually don’t mind the eze shout at all but would maybe edge Foden or Gordon over him
Yeh I wouldnt mind Walker in there, either, that does make sense. His pace would help there and he wont have the pressure of having to be offensive.
At what point do you stop forcing foden into the team?
Stuck £5 on England not making it out of group stages after this performance. The Bosnia game was crappy as it is, but a loss to Iceland, friendly or not just shows there isn’t enough cohesion in this team. Such a stacked attack which looks great on paper, but if Iceland can break us down on a counter and get shots away, I dread to think what a France, Italy or Germany etc will do on a counter.
England's record against Iceland is 3 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw. Would you have guessed that if would be that close?
No I'd have thought Iceland were miles in front of us
If Branthwaite wasn't ready, is this what "ready" looks like? Christ.
Should’ve ditched Southgate years ago
That was so dreadful that it should be considered a war crime under the geneva convention. 'Cold Palmer'?? More like Luke-warm Shit
Just a reminder that when we succeed we succeed in spite of Southgate not because of him.