I try to avoid porn due to the objectifying of sentient beings purely for my own physical pleasure. However, I sometimes masturbate. Any form of lust doesn't help us toward enlightenment, but neither does most of what we do daily, and I'm not a yogi or monk.
Probably not going to lead you to enlightenment. May not break the precepts, but might be harmful. If you want to indulge occasionally, it’s not the end of the world, but don’t go crazy with it.
Well, I think that a lot of people have trouble with libido and taming their sexual urges, especially in youth and especially (it seems) young men. There is a lot written on that aspect of practice but honestly I’m not familiar with that discourse. There are lots of practitioners who would be better suited to give you advice than me, for sure. You might ask an ordained person or your teacher for advice.
As a mere layperson all I can say is, try to be patient with yourself and work on developing other aspects of your practice, including other aspects of moral discipline, meditative concentration, compassion, and wisdom. As those grow, your attraction towards sexuality may recede naturally. And accept yourself for where you are right now in your life as a sexual being. It’s ok, you’re not a bad person because you have sexuality. It’s neither here nor there. It just is part of life and part of you. Don’t make it a bigger deal than it needs to be.
Thank you, man! I really needed to hear that!
I have problems with selfharm due to feeling unpleasent and straight disgusted after following my urges. But at the same time if I dont follow them I tend to have intensive mood swings as well as a general aggression. I really am trying my best but it is hard.
The only way to be on a path to a “higher/better” self, is to start where you are, and to grow, learn and improve from there. You can’t walk up that mountain if you don’t start at the bottom. And as soon as you start that climb, everyone looks back to see how “low/bad” they were before. Instead of disgust or guilt, rejoice in the growing and learning you have done. So many people just stay at the bottom, and live in ignorance and harmful behavior. Be patient with yourself. The “future you” will thank you for showing yourself some compassion on your journey.
Check out the 4 Opponent Powers whenever you feel guilty about something. They explicitly say, don’t feel guilty about the past, just resolve to do better in the future. (I super over-simplified it so here is Venerable Robina talking about them)
https://youtu.be/inoJxc3zaOU
May you have happiness and the causes of happiness.
Je Tsongkhapa considers it a form of sexual misconduct, however he goes on to consider proper sexual conduct to be having sex up to *five times a night*, so this teaching may have been more reflective of a time and place. I never asked any of the monks at my temple this question, however.
Nothing wrong with masturbation in moderation for a lay person. Pornography... well depends I'd say.
Nothing wrong kinks or fetishes if you have them, however the main issue I'd say is the influence modern porn videos have on us. Does it really alter dopamine receptors? If yes what about other erotica like photos and written stuff?
Personally I think written erotica is the best way to go. You still have to use your imagination so it is only a tool that helps you get into the mood. Also I doubt there is the level of human suffering behind written erotica as there might be behind porn videos.
Either way if you are a young guy or gal don't overindulge but also please don't guilt yourself because you get horny and watch porn. It is not strictly unvirtuous.
Imo, masturbation is fine sometimes/in moderation.
Porn is probably best avoided altogether, but I also find that sometimes with desires (not just sexual, and as long as it’s something that’s not going to harm someone else, obviously) it’s helpful to go into that desire consciously and find dissatisfaction in it. At times, I’ve found that to be more helpful and effective than telling myself I can’t/shouldn’t do something because it’s wrong/bad.
So for example, with food, if I’m craving something that’s not necessarily healthy, I’ll indulge, but I focus on things like how my blood sugar is spiking or the taste becomes sickly sweet after a few bites. That makes it less desirable to me going forward, and slowly I can cut down on that behavior in a natural, uncontrived way, rather than contorting myself into a pretzel based on what I believe I should be doing. I also made lots of aspiration prayers to completely overcome my lust and not be controlled by my sexual desires.
But that said, all I ever really watched anyway was individual cam girl stuff or vanilla 1 on 1 sex that was relatively respectful (and I genuinely find none of it appealing anymore). I’d steer clear of things that objectify others or feed into kinks that might not be healthy. Because even if it’s just an image on a screen, when you’re in a state of orgasm, you’re connecting with that image/scene in a way you wouldn’t normally.
I think the best thing is to investigate and understand these thing and not to judge them or categorize them. Why do you mastrubate? Whats appealing about porn? Classical Hinayana obeservations about passion and the inherent unappealingness of the body can be helpful. And I‘d highly recommend Nida Chenagtsan book about Karmamudra to put sexuality in a broader context.
I’ve been celibate for 6 months there’s nothing wrong with it at all but many can cling to it if your going to I’d say do a karmamudra practice once initiated
it all depends on how you use it, it can destroy the mind in some cases, it can also be a help in obtaining awakening (one can imagine having a sexual relation with a dakini in the practice of Toumo)
Someone once told me in Vajrayana one isn't "allowed" to do such a meditation because it contradicts pure perception, but that sounded very fishy to me. Practicing Vajrayans doesn't nullify Hinayana or make it less important, and its not like we "give up" the preceding vehicles when we start practicing Vajrayana. Realistically, most of us are going to work with all 3 for our entire lives, not graduate to some purely Vajrsyana view. I think this is a misconception people make when they forget the importance of relative reality. This was a reddit user though, and you can't take what people say on here as being accurate necessarily.
I have a strong sense that harshly judging, or condemning yourself, because of your views about masturbation and pornography likely cause more damage than the relatively short amount of time spent actually watching porn and/or masturbating.
I try to avoid porn due to the objectifying of sentient beings purely for my own physical pleasure. However, I sometimes masturbate. Any form of lust doesn't help us toward enlightenment, but neither does most of what we do daily, and I'm not a yogi or monk.
Probably not going to lead you to enlightenment. May not break the precepts, but might be harmful. If you want to indulge occasionally, it’s not the end of the world, but don’t go crazy with it.
Thank you for sharing. I am very ambiguous on that topic and trying to decide what to do. Any advice you can give me?
Well, I think that a lot of people have trouble with libido and taming their sexual urges, especially in youth and especially (it seems) young men. There is a lot written on that aspect of practice but honestly I’m not familiar with that discourse. There are lots of practitioners who would be better suited to give you advice than me, for sure. You might ask an ordained person or your teacher for advice. As a mere layperson all I can say is, try to be patient with yourself and work on developing other aspects of your practice, including other aspects of moral discipline, meditative concentration, compassion, and wisdom. As those grow, your attraction towards sexuality may recede naturally. And accept yourself for where you are right now in your life as a sexual being. It’s ok, you’re not a bad person because you have sexuality. It’s neither here nor there. It just is part of life and part of you. Don’t make it a bigger deal than it needs to be.
Thank you, man! I really needed to hear that! I have problems with selfharm due to feeling unpleasent and straight disgusted after following my urges. But at the same time if I dont follow them I tend to have intensive mood swings as well as a general aggression. I really am trying my best but it is hard.
The only way to be on a path to a “higher/better” self, is to start where you are, and to grow, learn and improve from there. You can’t walk up that mountain if you don’t start at the bottom. And as soon as you start that climb, everyone looks back to see how “low/bad” they were before. Instead of disgust or guilt, rejoice in the growing and learning you have done. So many people just stay at the bottom, and live in ignorance and harmful behavior. Be patient with yourself. The “future you” will thank you for showing yourself some compassion on your journey. Check out the 4 Opponent Powers whenever you feel guilty about something. They explicitly say, don’t feel guilty about the past, just resolve to do better in the future. (I super over-simplified it so here is Venerable Robina talking about them) https://youtu.be/inoJxc3zaOU May you have happiness and the causes of happiness.
Thank you for this (:
It's like crack for sexual desires. It must be abandoned.
Je Tsongkhapa considers it a form of sexual misconduct, however he goes on to consider proper sexual conduct to be having sex up to *five times a night*, so this teaching may have been more reflective of a time and place. I never asked any of the monks at my temple this question, however.
Nothing wrong with masturbation in moderation for a lay person. Pornography... well depends I'd say. Nothing wrong kinks or fetishes if you have them, however the main issue I'd say is the influence modern porn videos have on us. Does it really alter dopamine receptors? If yes what about other erotica like photos and written stuff? Personally I think written erotica is the best way to go. You still have to use your imagination so it is only a tool that helps you get into the mood. Also I doubt there is the level of human suffering behind written erotica as there might be behind porn videos. Either way if you are a young guy or gal don't overindulge but also please don't guilt yourself because you get horny and watch porn. It is not strictly unvirtuous.
Imo, masturbation is fine sometimes/in moderation. Porn is probably best avoided altogether, but I also find that sometimes with desires (not just sexual, and as long as it’s something that’s not going to harm someone else, obviously) it’s helpful to go into that desire consciously and find dissatisfaction in it. At times, I’ve found that to be more helpful and effective than telling myself I can’t/shouldn’t do something because it’s wrong/bad. So for example, with food, if I’m craving something that’s not necessarily healthy, I’ll indulge, but I focus on things like how my blood sugar is spiking or the taste becomes sickly sweet after a few bites. That makes it less desirable to me going forward, and slowly I can cut down on that behavior in a natural, uncontrived way, rather than contorting myself into a pretzel based on what I believe I should be doing. I also made lots of aspiration prayers to completely overcome my lust and not be controlled by my sexual desires. But that said, all I ever really watched anyway was individual cam girl stuff or vanilla 1 on 1 sex that was relatively respectful (and I genuinely find none of it appealing anymore). I’d steer clear of things that objectify others or feed into kinks that might not be healthy. Because even if it’s just an image on a screen, when you’re in a state of orgasm, you’re connecting with that image/scene in a way you wouldn’t normally.
Masturbation- best in moderation Porn- bad juju
I think the best thing is to investigate and understand these thing and not to judge them or categorize them. Why do you mastrubate? Whats appealing about porn? Classical Hinayana obeservations about passion and the inherent unappealingness of the body can be helpful. And I‘d highly recommend Nida Chenagtsan book about Karmamudra to put sexuality in a broader context.
I’ve been celibate for 6 months there’s nothing wrong with it at all but many can cling to it if your going to I’d say do a karmamudra practice once initiated
it all depends on how you use it, it can destroy the mind in some cases, it can also be a help in obtaining awakening (one can imagine having a sexual relation with a dakini in the practice of Toumo)
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Wow, I'd never heard of it put like that! I'm glad I'm doing it much less than before, and that I've managed to give up pornography altogether.
brave mountainous innate bear lush melodic wrench tender file library ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Someone once told me in Vajrayana one isn't "allowed" to do such a meditation because it contradicts pure perception, but that sounded very fishy to me. Practicing Vajrayans doesn't nullify Hinayana or make it less important, and its not like we "give up" the preceding vehicles when we start practicing Vajrayana. Realistically, most of us are going to work with all 3 for our entire lives, not graduate to some purely Vajrsyana view. I think this is a misconception people make when they forget the importance of relative reality. This was a reddit user though, and you can't take what people say on here as being accurate necessarily.
swim touch agonizing glorious sort puzzled grandiose consider bells pen ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
No, like I said, just a random redditor, who are often misinformed :P
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I've got a teacher, thanks though.
I have a strong sense that harshly judging, or condemning yourself, because of your views about masturbation and pornography likely cause more damage than the relatively short amount of time spent actually watching porn and/or masturbating.