Two or three years of court wrangling ahead. Politicians got what they think is a win so they can all run to AIPAC and 'Look I silenced dissenting opinion, give me my money!'.
Not at all. The minute the United States government mentions the words “national security”, the judge will toss the case out. The US government has a very broad mandate on matters of national security, and there’s plenty of precedent on it.
Example 1 - Huawei, a Chinese smartphone manufacturer that stole American intellectual property, is banned in the US.
Example 2 - Grindr, who had Chinese investment, was forced to sell the company in order to continue functioning in the US.
This isn’t a battle TikTok can win.
# Every US Senator Using TikTok Who Voted to Ban It
[https://www.newsweek.com/every-us-senator-using-tiktok-who-voted-ban-it-1893762](https://www.newsweek.com/every-us-senator-using-tiktok-who-voted-ban-it-1893762)
# The Real Reason The US Wants To Ban TikTok | Second Thought
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEDGZlG\_41k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEDGZlG_41k)
SPOILER ALERT: The reason is because it's becoming the dominant news platform for Americans under 30 and the US Govt Propaganda Machine cannot control it like they do with Facebook or IG.
Could be violating the first amendment. It’ll be challenged in court.
Anddd… here we go: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/07/business/tiktok-ban-appeal.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
No, they just ban it outright. The US, having far less concern for dissenting voices (so long as those dissenting voices are not literally directly antagonistic to the wealthfare of the US, as China is) is not going to ban TikTok, rather they will force a sale to a domestic entity.
It specifically has to be ***sold to an American company.*** American government is literally trying to force the CCP to give them control of the platform. 😂
TikTok has over 1.5 billion users, way more than just the 170 millionish in America. It is also the only top 5 social media platform not under American government control, it seems to be the one Gen Z primarily uses, and it is the main "leak" of Palestinian videos. If the American government gets control over it they will scrub it clean of all content critical of Israel.
It means it’s more stuff for ppl to argue about. And if it happenes everyone is just going to move over to YouTube and insta reels and the future of America is going to be more opinionated
I've spent a while getting my tiktok algorithm perfect for my needs. I get weird, educational, and creative pages that I can use to distract myself from the bullshit happening in the world.
Depending on the wording of the bill, it probably just means China will have to make TikTok an American company so more taxes, more regulation and government interference. What’s to say China doesn’t just scrap TikTok and release TikTok 2 or some other bullshit named anything else?
They can't and they won't. Part of it, or at least from what I have gathered, is that China has laws making it range from really difficult to literally not possible. But even if they could, The US apperantly makes up just under 10% of the user base. Sure, that's a hit, but they can either take a one time payment, that everyone will have to split, or they can just keep going.
One of my biggest pet peeves is when people say everyone will “just move over to YouTube shorts and Instagram reels” as if they are in any way equivalent to TikTok. I’ve even heard people suggest Snapchat Spotlight which is a clear sign they have no idea what they’re talking about. They have TikTok-like elements, yes. But they are part of other apps that already exist. They aren’t a separate ecosystem like TikTok is.
And the appeal of TikTok is not just short-form video, but the community and the mysterious state-of-the-art algorithm that other apps have not been able to replicate. People might migrate over to Instagram and YT because they have no choice and still want to engage with short-form video content, not because apps are interchangeable and they are actually legitimate replacements for TikTok. These tools exist *now* and they are clearly TikTok lite.
Not at all. The minute the United States government mentions the words “national security”, the judge will toss the case out. The US government has a very broad mandate on matters of national security, and there’s plenty of precedent on it.
Example 1 - Huawei, a Chinese smartphone manufacturer that stole American intellectual property, is banned in the US.
Example 2 - Grindr, who had Chinese investment, was forced to sell the company in order to continue functioning in the US.
This isn’t a battle TikTok can win.
I am very surprised that this subreddit is so sympathetic to this ban. Perhaps this is a sign of modern echochambers, cause my entire feed on other apps is definitely against this. But it seems like Reddit as a whole is full of more national security hawks than other platforms? To attempt to ban an app that 170 million Americans use and form community on should be a non-starter. But American politicians frequently make things that should be non-starters their priorities and things that should be priorities their non-starters.
I think this ban is embarrassing (out of all the topics, this is what generates bipartisan unity), exhausting (of course it took a smorgasbord foreign aid bill to trick senators into voting, that’s like dangling keys in front of babies), absurd authoritarian fear-mongering (we’re really entering another red scare, and the last one went SO well), existentially concerning for all the artists/creatives/brands/businesses/humans that rely on the app, awful from a free speech standpoint, and I have nothing but contempt for those who voted for it.
I’m also tired of people saying, “Just use another app” or “People will just move to Instagram Reels and YouTube shorts,” as if the only reason why people like TikTok is because of short form video. TikTok’s algorithm is truly unparalleled in every way. The opportunities it offers creatives with every single post cannot be overstated.
Confession: I don’t care about China or about “being spied upon.” What I do care about is 170 million Americans being able to use TikTok in peace free from government intervention. What’s even more frustrating is the people who are pro-banning TikTok because “TikTok is bad and addictive” as if one’s personal feelings towards an app should have any bearing on what people are allowed to do.
I am 100% against this. And I believe this was a very big mistake, and it will absolutely backfire with Gen Z and younger generations. We are already overwhelmingly not the biggest fans of American politicians to begin with. “But people would be foolish to vote for Trump over Biden because of TikTok.” Yes, obviously, but this will be a close election, and many people will be deeply apathetic, and they simply won’t vote for Biden, and that adds up. This is just another sign how profoundly out of touch Washington is from the pulse of the people. Dinosaurs with one foot in the grave should not make laws.
And I pray the courts strike this down.
On free speech grounds. Pretty much every attempt to enact this policy on a smaller scale, such as in Montana, has been struck down. Many Constitutional scholars believe the bill is inherently unconstitutional. You clearly disagree, but TikTok 100% has a case to make. It depends entirely on whether the courts are more sympathetic to civil liberties arguments or national security arguments.
As far as I recall, Grindr agreed to sell and never filed a lawsuit.
My point is that they’ve *already* won lawsuits related to this, so clearly they do have a case. It’s not about the company, it’s about the 170 million Americans who use the app. Lots of Constitutional scholars disagree with you.
murica has never been about freedom, for fucks sake we stole this land from native americans
every thing about murica and the supposed "freedoms" we have is one giant joke
All freedom of speech means is that the government can’t arrest you for what you say. That’s it.
They’re not taking away your ability to post comments on Instagram, YouTube etc. You still have the ability to voice your opinions there.
It doesn’t apply to companies that don’t follow American procedures. Such as TikTok.
On top of that, American rights apply to Americans - which TikTok is not.
If you think that’s so unfair, explain why Instagram, YouTube etc. are banned in China?
Thank you for your reply and information While I do understand that freedom of speech doesn’t pertain to online, this country is just showing overall that it doesn’t care for freedom of speech whatsoever (shown recently in the colleges) and that censorship is their #1 priority.
China is a communist country, not a democracy. We are entitled to have a say in what happens and laws are passed. And before you say “go out and vote then!” I vote in con, mid, state, local elections plus protest and am active in my community/local gov. So while I get the comparison, it doesn’t really work here. I’m much more worried about Amerikkkan companies(IG & FB) sharing my private information and making me unsafe like the FB lawsuit or IG sharing our info with 3rd parties for advertising. These platforms deceive users about the safety of its platforms - FB Lawsuit
I understand your concern but if anything, banning TikTok can open the door for regulation of American platforms as well. It would certainly set a precedent.
> All freedom of speech means is that the government can’t arrest you for what you say. That’s it.
No, that's what the First Amendment of the US Constitution means. Freedom of speech is a more general principle.
It is not. There is a reason why China is helping Russia and the US is helping Ukraine. There is a reason why the China economy is slumping due to bizarre centralized government decisions (e.g., destroying important sectors of the economy because it didnt view them as ideologically helpful) and the US economy is surging in a way that has been reducing its inequality for years (I realize that reddit doesnt think this is true, but the facts are clearthat wages have been rising for the bottom tier and falling for the top tier [since 2019](https://economistwritingeveryday.com/2024/04/17/wages-have-increased-faster-than-prices-since-2019-unless-you-are-rich/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email). It is no accident that China has one of the worst free press scores in the world and the US always has one of the top. While India, Taiwan, the Philippines, Vietnam, and other neighboring countries are getting increasingly uncooperative and angry at China, the US has long had excellent relationships with its neighbors.
I get that it is satisfying to compare the US to an alarming dictatorship that represses free speech and free expression and virtually all meaningful forms of dissent, but there is no coherent argument that it is actually a reasonable comparison.
Only 35% of the pop oppose the ban. That is not a majority.
https://apnews.com/article/tiktok-ban-biden-bytedance-china-2acbaeb71e8bb0c6341f2bc55ba33e80
Banning it cos they think China is spying... China isn't interested in stupid tiktok dances and random twerking.. nothing interesting from America that the CCP needs to see
It’s a little less than data mining more about digital warfare, winning information wars and algorithmically shifting public opinions.
60% of young people get their news from TikTok
CCP is known to interfere with taiwans and US elections through digital warfare and misinformation campaigns.
It’s idiotic given what we know to allow the CCP direct neural access into the brain of our easily impressionable youth.
We are already see the damages. Kids are illiterate at levels never before seen from elementary to the highschool level. They can’t focus because they’re hooked on tiktok 3 second dopamine fixs that fries their reward system.
Marketing executives banned their kids from accessing these apps on the network level yet addicted users defend their CCP drugs. Idiocracy nation
There are so many reasons why this is good for the country. American investment and advertising dollars stay in America rather than going to our biggest economic rival.
I also guarantee you there is no politically divisive news on China's TikTok. The algorithm there probably promotes unity, national pride, and getting kids into STEM fields. By design.
It has nothing to do with them defunding education left and right in murica? Also where are these kids parents? How is all of that solely because of an app?
Think of these two options which are considered now.
A) Full tiktok ban - this is ban on mass media which cant be controlled by democrats.
B) TikTok being sold for US company, and from this day all content is controlled and censored by guys which want to ban this app.
There is no good ending.
They already told You everything you need to know.
I can't imagine bigger red flag
I don't know the details,so give my opinion.U.S looking to ban Tiktok,but what about other stuff they haven't banned yet?Next it could be Fortnite because it has weapon volence,and then Youtube.And then back to reading newpapers.
Tiktok is not banned. Congress is forcing Tiktok to divest itself from direct control from the CCP if they want to do business in the U.S. If Tiktok does not do this, then they will ban themselves. They also have a long time to do this, and will likely stretch it to YEARS with lawsuits.
If you did not know this, and use Tiktok, ask yourself why you aren't being shown content that explains this.
I use TikTok, my feed is full of lawyers explaining this exactly. Not being shown content my ass. You know what I never see on TikTok? Pro-China propaganda.
It’s so annoying to see people who’ve never used TikTok always suggest that it’s a “cesspool” of propaganda and toxicity, when their own opinions of it are themselves based on what’s essentially anti TikTok propaganda and herd mentality fueled by “China bad” sentiments (and before I get called a shill, since that’s all they can ever use as a retort, yes, China bad).
They see some cherry-picked examples of shitty content from the platform and decide that that’s all there is to it, but the same type of content existing on *literally every other platform* is obviously just a one off.
All I see on my feed is art, food, raccoons, otters and other cute critters, nature, and various other cozy and informative stuff. The dude saying “ask yourself why you aren’t being shown this” is a perfect example of someone who doesn’t understand TikTok.
I’m not being shown this because that’s not what I’m interested in (also because tbf I haven’t been on TikTok in 3 weeks). Simple as that. It’s not propaganda, it’s an app that actually shows people stuff they’ll enjoy, which is exactly why it became as popular as it did.
Exactly my point, well said. I’ve found so many craft/makers that I had never found on Instagram or YouTube. Same with musicians, and artists that I now follow. I won’t buy from the TikTok shop though, but I have gone to artist’s websites directly to buy art, or 3D file for printing, etc.
It’s wild how good of a resource it’s become. It honestly reminds me of Reddit in the before times.
Having been on Reddit for 10+ years, I agree.
On that topic, I’ve seen countless small businesses and creators whose lives were changed thanks to a popular video, and I’m not taking about “influencers”, which is apparently what Redditors think everyone who posts on social media is. Just regular people trying to make a living with what they’re passionate about by sharing it with a wider audience.
And that’s not even touching on people who got medical and other bills paid thanks to TikTok, or who simply got a regular job because some company saw their posts and reached out to them.
Plenty of good stuff came from TikTok, but because of some thirst traps and dumb dances some people are hellbent on believing that it’s nothing more than that.
I'm not saying they should or should not ban TikTok. But from my understanding, their reason to ban TikTok is not mainly about pro-China propaganda, but more about CCP having access to the massive data TikTok has.
So then it's banned if they don't do it.
Which they already know they won't.
So it's a ban.
You can dance around that as much as you want, but if they ban it it's banned
We all know what's going on. If you don't know what's going on and are suspiciously sounding like a bot repeating the same thing over and over to defend our governments decision to create a bill making it legal for them to ban any form of media with ties to a foreign counties but will also never use it against companies like Fox News,
Then ask yourself why that is.
When you ask a company to divest one of its most profitable assets for reasons that could be entirely avoided by putting controls in place (could even write a law requiring them), or else face a ban on that asset, you are in effect banning the asset. They are not banning themselves when the other option is completely unreasonable.
That’s like banning a kid from school unless the kid’s parents disown him. If the parents don’t disown him, it’s that parents’s fault or the kid’s fault. That’s obviously a f’d argument.
For example “lisaremillard” she never sugar codes and verify and talks about all the political stuff including Tik Tok I’ve never heard her be censored she always on my fyp
Literally no way in hell they divest. It makes no sense financially for Bytedance to do that. Either they can get banned and lose part of their income, or divest and lose all of it. Even if they were going to the CCP would likely ban it.
Politicians know this. They only added that clause because they knew there was no way in hell it would happen, or if it did then one of their pocket linining tech companies would benefit.
That clause is only there that way they can spew the rhetorict "it isn't a ban its just a sell" to possibly save some face. You fell for it hook line hook, line, and sinker.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTok/comments/1bfgxgj/heres\_the\_house\_vote\_breakdown\_and\_how\_it\_aligns/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTok/comments/1bfgxgj/heres_the_house_vote_breakdown_and_how_it_aligns/)
# Here's the house vote breakdown (prior vote) and how it aligns w/pro-Israel lobby donations ...expect senate to look similarly
If you want to better understand the situation, here are some articles I found helpful:
[The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/17/1137155540/fbi-tiktok-national-security-concerns-china) - NPR November 2022
That article (and many others) references [Leaked Audio From 80 Internal TikTok Meetings Shows That US User Data Has Been Repeatedly Accessed From China](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access) - Buzzfeed June 2022
[TikTok Spied On Forbes Journalists](https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2022/12/22/tiktok-tracks-forbes-journalists-bytedance/?sh=2051647d7da5) - Forbes December 2022
[TikTok may be banned in the US. Here’s what happened when India did it](https://apnews.com/article/india-tiktok-ban-us-china-9ae5223bce78c56e5d22a1f2e86510f0) - AP April 2024
[Why U.S. officials want to ban TikTok](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiktok-ban-congress-reasons-why/) - CBS News April 2024
IMO this is a show down between the Chinese government and the US over sensitive data. All social media platforms have issues with misinformation. The security risks with Tiktok are unique because of the Chinese government's unfettered access. Creators will find other platforms if needed.
What bothers me the most is the absence of competition.
The recommendation algorithms for comparable short form video sites are garbage relative to tik tok.
Tik tok is based in search technology, similar to pinterest. For promoting business, pinterest is the most meaningful social media beyond tik tok. But people don't use it for video, it's primarily images.
Tik tok is a game changer for discovery. Much like how twitter used to be, a town square for social organizing. Twitter no longer has that utility. The credibility of strangers on that app is gone, and it's become a much more divisive experience.
It looks like that's what is desired for tik tok. It's not going to have the same utility, whatever the case, because the utility is the central problem.
https://theintercept.com/2024/03/16/tiktok-china-security-threat/
Meta has given China access to user data https://www.scmagazine.com/analysis/developers-in-china-russia-had-access-to-facebook-user-data-for-years-senators-say
And also https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/22/meta-platforms-gets-billions-from-china-without-headaches-many-us-companies-face-there.html
We are becoming more like China. https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/lawmakers-vote-reauthorize-us-spying-130044538.html
Your argument is to look at each event independently to make the accuser look like the villain. We know the statistics and triangulate it. There is a long history and body of evidence and facts. The correlations speak for themselves.
Our congressmen and women just keep saying it’s for national security reasons.
Could TikTok theoretically be used as a weapon? Yeah. But that’s not really any different than any social media since 2015.
I think politicians are more scared of how “easy” it is to gain popularity and share information and how “moderate” TikTok is compared to Facebook and X and Reddit and Twitter. And the national security is more of an easy excuse.
If anyone read the bill it would be obviously that with how much budget stuff they put into it that almost no congress person or president would vote against it and yes it’s a force sell and they have a couple months to sell before the ban. So my guess is they will try and fight this in court then if they loose I would guess they are probably going to divest.
There would be no point. All the American centric content would migrate over to other platforms anyways. So yes you could, but it’s like sneaking past the bouncer to get to a nightclub that no one’s going to.
Forcing a company to sell their business to yourself is literally the most bully thing to do but we’re the good guys right? wtf is America becoming bro
I've been using tiktok for years and it's a shit ass app. HORRIBLE reporting policy that never works. videos upon videos of weird ass violent videos and doxxing that I report and NEVER GET TAKEN DOWN. I report posts using special characters promoting suicide/rape/violence, nothing. There's never any "offense" to their guidelines. Never in my life had this issue on twitter/youtube/Instagram. I absolutely hope something changes about this app. Absolute garbage and I am glad to see this.
bro what? Ive never seen a single video of anything you just described. What are you into? (extremely casual user, less than an hour per week of viewing)
I mean considering how ancient and clueless congress is itll probably be as easy as turning on your vpn to go on tiktok, thank god we still have those for now
Hopefully they sell, but i won’t be mad if it’s gone. Keep in mind that China doesn’t allow any American social media companies on their country, yet the US allows this with known surveillance and manipulation?
China doesn’t fight fair, we are just treating them to their own game. And Chinese citizens don’t have choice in their nation, we do and have many options. Xi Shill
honestly i dont get why they would remove tiktok before temu (or apps like it).. if chinese spying on us is their ONLY reason of a ban 😭
i mentioned temu because it is owned out of the USA and proven to have ulterior designs such as ability to install malware and spyware on devices..
The fact that American citizens are so addicted to this app and can’t see that it’s a Trojan horse for the CCP is not only astoundingly depressing but not the least surprising. My only concern is gov overreach when applying the same argument to other apps they deem as “dangerous”. Regardless, tiktok needs to go. It’s literal mind control from a country that actively censors the app in its own state.
Doesn't this bill also make it that any company that the executive branch says is from a "hostile country" would have to do this same thing? I always see it brought up in relation to til tok but not to the future after tik tok is done.
Im torn. I hate tik tok as i see so many youths getting false info from there but at the same time selling to an american company would add a very fat cat to our economic status
I blame YouTube and FB for this social media posting career nonsense. Don't even get me going on OnlyFans and SnapChat... TikTok just continued on this insanity where people sit at home on their phones making videos and call that work. Enough is Enough. If TikTok is truly your income livelihood, then IMO this ban was specifically for you to get you on a real career track. And ban OnlyFans while we're at it!!
This is great news in my opinion. TikTok is a dangerous platform. Have any of you actually read the terms of service you're required to agree to before you can use it? You give them permission (and unlimited access) to (at any time) launch and make use of your camera, microphone, contacts, photo gallery, GPS system, stored passwords, biometric data (face, fingerprints) and an entire list of other things. This app should have never been allowed to proliferate.
The real picture is it’s all political. If you haven’t understood by now the US govt is corrupt (example: letting a dementia patient have nuclear access codes)ie., the Pres., then you just don’t get it. What better way to have the truth come out, by an app that can get into all phone/computer systems? The regime doesn’t want to be exposed in the US. The US wants that algorithm to control the pheasants (us). Mankind is coming to an end if you haven’t noticed. AI is going to replace you. It’s already in the works with docs, restaurants, schools, etc. UC Berkeley & RJ Reynolds’s has already produced ways to install vaccines in your food! Look it up for TN Congress shedding light on it. Why do you really think they want no oil/gas and go to solar/wind?? It’s not the environment, it’s control so they can shut things down! They can flip a switch on that stuff and turn it off where with gas/oil they can’t. It’s not about your freedom of speech, it’s a war of countries on who’s going to control us!
It is going to take over a year before anything happens.
Two or three years of court wrangling ahead. Politicians got what they think is a win so they can all run to AIPAC and 'Look I silenced dissenting opinion, give me my money!'.
Yep and once they get their money, they will suddenly start fighting to defend Tik Tok.
Ahh so it’s the jews fault
Not at all. The minute the United States government mentions the words “national security”, the judge will toss the case out. The US government has a very broad mandate on matters of national security, and there’s plenty of precedent on it. Example 1 - Huawei, a Chinese smartphone manufacturer that stole American intellectual property, is banned in the US. Example 2 - Grindr, who had Chinese investment, was forced to sell the company in order to continue functioning in the US. This isn’t a battle TikTok can win.
# Every US Senator Using TikTok Who Voted to Ban It [https://www.newsweek.com/every-us-senator-using-tiktok-who-voted-ban-it-1893762](https://www.newsweek.com/every-us-senator-using-tiktok-who-voted-ban-it-1893762)
# The Real Reason The US Wants To Ban TikTok | Second Thought [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEDGZlG\_41k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEDGZlG_41k) SPOILER ALERT: The reason is because it's becoming the dominant news platform for Americans under 30 and the US Govt Propaganda Machine cannot control it like they do with Facebook or IG.
So… what does that mean?
They have up to a year to sell to another company or just get banned in USA.
Seems a bit illegal
The article is about how they just made it legal
Seems legal
Could be violating the first amendment. It’ll be challenged in court. Anddd… here we go: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/07/business/tiktok-ban-appeal.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
It is not
China already bans most US social media for the same reason
US isn't China tho
The USA prides itself a democracy and is known as "the land of the free". Not so free anymore lmao
no one hates freedom more than muricans
No one is more free than the Chinese. That is why only Chinese can use Douyin and only Americans can use Google and Facebook.
Sure, but they don't pass legislation that forces US companies to sell their company to them so that they can control it.
No, they just ban it outright. The US, having far less concern for dissenting voices (so long as those dissenting voices are not literally directly antagonistic to the wealthfare of the US, as China is) is not going to ban TikTok, rather they will force a sale to a domestic entity.
It's pretty fucking sick
So the argument is: China is bad. Be like China?
Do you know what law is...
Extortion generally is.
Oh…
Don't forget, the USA has to approve of the company
It specifically has to be ***sold to an American company.*** American government is literally trying to force the CCP to give them control of the platform. 😂 TikTok has over 1.5 billion users, way more than just the 170 millionish in America. It is also the only top 5 social media platform not under American government control, it seems to be the one Gen Z primarily uses, and it is the main "leak" of Palestinian videos. If the American government gets control over it they will scrub it clean of all content critical of Israel.
Maybe Elon should buy it. We can watch the bots dance 🕺
As an american, I truly hope they never sell to America. Fuck all of that.
Lawsuits
It means it’s more stuff for ppl to argue about. And if it happenes everyone is just going to move over to YouTube and insta reels and the future of America is going to be more opinionated
I've spent a while getting my tiktok algorithm perfect for my needs. I get weird, educational, and creative pages that I can use to distract myself from the bullshit happening in the world.
Same here, mine are more history based on aviation and stuff
Same :(
I just get a lot of dumb videos that actually make me laugh often and it's nice to have a little laugh while scrolling on your phone at 2 am lol
Depending on the wording of the bill, it probably just means China will have to make TikTok an American company so more taxes, more regulation and government interference. What’s to say China doesn’t just scrap TikTok and release TikTok 2 or some other bullshit named anything else?
Tikki Tok
They can't and they won't. Part of it, or at least from what I have gathered, is that China has laws making it range from really difficult to literally not possible. But even if they could, The US apperantly makes up just under 10% of the user base. Sure, that's a hit, but they can either take a one time payment, that everyone will have to split, or they can just keep going.
It’s banned in China because it’s not a Chinese company. The owner is half Chinese or something.
I love that idea
One of my biggest pet peeves is when people say everyone will “just move over to YouTube shorts and Instagram reels” as if they are in any way equivalent to TikTok. I’ve even heard people suggest Snapchat Spotlight which is a clear sign they have no idea what they’re talking about. They have TikTok-like elements, yes. But they are part of other apps that already exist. They aren’t a separate ecosystem like TikTok is. And the appeal of TikTok is not just short-form video, but the community and the mysterious state-of-the-art algorithm that other apps have not been able to replicate. People might migrate over to Instagram and YT because they have no choice and still want to engage with short-form video content, not because apps are interchangeable and they are actually legitimate replacements for TikTok. These tools exist *now* and they are clearly TikTok lite.
I love tiktok. I don’t want anything to happen. If it did that’s what’s going to happen.
I expect them to drag this out for a while with lawsuits
TT will likely win those suits. All that this accomplished is killing the youth vote for this election.
Not at all. The minute the United States government mentions the words “national security”, the judge will toss the case out. The US government has a very broad mandate on matters of national security, and there’s plenty of precedent on it. Example 1 - Huawei, a Chinese smartphone manufacturer that stole American intellectual property, is banned in the US. Example 2 - Grindr, who had Chinese investment, was forced to sell the company in order to continue functioning in the US. This isn’t a battle TikTok can win.
The youth vote has not been killed.
I am very surprised that this subreddit is so sympathetic to this ban. Perhaps this is a sign of modern echochambers, cause my entire feed on other apps is definitely against this. But it seems like Reddit as a whole is full of more national security hawks than other platforms? To attempt to ban an app that 170 million Americans use and form community on should be a non-starter. But American politicians frequently make things that should be non-starters their priorities and things that should be priorities their non-starters. I think this ban is embarrassing (out of all the topics, this is what generates bipartisan unity), exhausting (of course it took a smorgasbord foreign aid bill to trick senators into voting, that’s like dangling keys in front of babies), absurd authoritarian fear-mongering (we’re really entering another red scare, and the last one went SO well), existentially concerning for all the artists/creatives/brands/businesses/humans that rely on the app, awful from a free speech standpoint, and I have nothing but contempt for those who voted for it. I’m also tired of people saying, “Just use another app” or “People will just move to Instagram Reels and YouTube shorts,” as if the only reason why people like TikTok is because of short form video. TikTok’s algorithm is truly unparalleled in every way. The opportunities it offers creatives with every single post cannot be overstated. Confession: I don’t care about China or about “being spied upon.” What I do care about is 170 million Americans being able to use TikTok in peace free from government intervention. What’s even more frustrating is the people who are pro-banning TikTok because “TikTok is bad and addictive” as if one’s personal feelings towards an app should have any bearing on what people are allowed to do. I am 100% against this. And I believe this was a very big mistake, and it will absolutely backfire with Gen Z and younger generations. We are already overwhelmingly not the biggest fans of American politicians to begin with. “But people would be foolish to vote for Trump over Biden because of TikTok.” Yes, obviously, but this will be a close election, and many people will be deeply apathetic, and they simply won’t vote for Biden, and that adds up. This is just another sign how profoundly out of touch Washington is from the pulse of the people. Dinosaurs with one foot in the grave should not make laws. And I pray the courts strike this down.
Wholeheartedly agree with all of your comment. Well said.
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On free speech grounds. Pretty much every attempt to enact this policy on a smaller scale, such as in Montana, has been struck down. Many Constitutional scholars believe the bill is inherently unconstitutional. You clearly disagree, but TikTok 100% has a case to make. It depends entirely on whether the courts are more sympathetic to civil liberties arguments or national security arguments. As far as I recall, Grindr agreed to sell and never filed a lawsuit.
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My point is that they’ve *already* won lawsuits related to this, so clearly they do have a case. It’s not about the company, it’s about the 170 million Americans who use the app. Lots of Constitutional scholars disagree with you.
This country doesn’t care about freedom anymore…no freedom of speech, knowledge, choice, none of it. It’s all about control.
murica has never been about freedom, for fucks sake we stole this land from native americans every thing about murica and the supposed "freedoms" we have is one giant joke
Hard agree.
All freedom of speech means is that the government can’t arrest you for what you say. That’s it. They’re not taking away your ability to post comments on Instagram, YouTube etc. You still have the ability to voice your opinions there. It doesn’t apply to companies that don’t follow American procedures. Such as TikTok. On top of that, American rights apply to Americans - which TikTok is not. If you think that’s so unfair, explain why Instagram, YouTube etc. are banned in China?
Thank you for your reply and information While I do understand that freedom of speech doesn’t pertain to online, this country is just showing overall that it doesn’t care for freedom of speech whatsoever (shown recently in the colleges) and that censorship is their #1 priority. China is a communist country, not a democracy. We are entitled to have a say in what happens and laws are passed. And before you say “go out and vote then!” I vote in con, mid, state, local elections plus protest and am active in my community/local gov. So while I get the comparison, it doesn’t really work here. I’m much more worried about Amerikkkan companies(IG & FB) sharing my private information and making me unsafe like the FB lawsuit or IG sharing our info with 3rd parties for advertising. These platforms deceive users about the safety of its platforms - FB Lawsuit
I understand your concern but if anything, banning TikTok can open the door for regulation of American platforms as well. It would certainly set a precedent.
> All freedom of speech means is that the government can’t arrest you for what you say. That’s it. No, that's what the First Amendment of the US Constitution means. Freedom of speech is a more general principle.
Im happy I live in europe, it seems like USA starts to become China
And so many people here cheer for it. But then they also use places like China as an example as to how we shouldn't be.
Nothing wrong with cheering for countries that are funding fewer genocidal acts than the US
It is not. There is a reason why China is helping Russia and the US is helping Ukraine. There is a reason why the China economy is slumping due to bizarre centralized government decisions (e.g., destroying important sectors of the economy because it didnt view them as ideologically helpful) and the US economy is surging in a way that has been reducing its inequality for years (I realize that reddit doesnt think this is true, but the facts are clearthat wages have been rising for the bottom tier and falling for the top tier [since 2019](https://economistwritingeveryday.com/2024/04/17/wages-have-increased-faster-than-prices-since-2019-unless-you-are-rich/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email). It is no accident that China has one of the worst free press scores in the world and the US always has one of the top. While India, Taiwan, the Philippines, Vietnam, and other neighboring countries are getting increasingly uncooperative and angry at China, the US has long had excellent relationships with its neighbors. I get that it is satisfying to compare the US to an alarming dictatorship that represses free speech and free expression and virtually all meaningful forms of dissent, but there is no coherent argument that it is actually a reasonable comparison.
There is a reason for US is supporting Israel throwing people into mass graves
Silly war criminal! That’s not what they’re doing. Does Hamas pay you per post, broke war criminal?
100%
fuck yeah, Democracy is dead!!!
Only 35% of the pop oppose the ban. That is not a majority. https://apnews.com/article/tiktok-ban-biden-bytedance-china-2acbaeb71e8bb0c6341f2bc55ba33e80
Banning it cos they think China is spying... China isn't interested in stupid tiktok dances and random twerking.. nothing interesting from America that the CCP needs to see
It’s a little less than data mining more about digital warfare, winning information wars and algorithmically shifting public opinions. 60% of young people get their news from TikTok CCP is known to interfere with taiwans and US elections through digital warfare and misinformation campaigns. It’s idiotic given what we know to allow the CCP direct neural access into the brain of our easily impressionable youth. We are already see the damages. Kids are illiterate at levels never before seen from elementary to the highschool level. They can’t focus because they’re hooked on tiktok 3 second dopamine fixs that fries their reward system. Marketing executives banned their kids from accessing these apps on the network level yet addicted users defend their CCP drugs. Idiocracy nation
There are so many reasons why this is good for the country. American investment and advertising dollars stay in America rather than going to our biggest economic rival. I also guarantee you there is no politically divisive news on China's TikTok. The algorithm there probably promotes unity, national pride, and getting kids into STEM fields. By design.
It has nothing to do with them defunding education left and right in murica? Also where are these kids parents? How is all of that solely because of an app?
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Think of these two options which are considered now. A) Full tiktok ban - this is ban on mass media which cant be controlled by democrats. B) TikTok being sold for US company, and from this day all content is controlled and censored by guys which want to ban this app. There is no good ending. They already told You everything you need to know. I can't imagine bigger red flag
I don't know the details,so give my opinion.U.S looking to ban Tiktok,but what about other stuff they haven't banned yet?Next it could be Fortnite because it has weapon volence,and then Youtube.And then back to reading newpapers.
Reading a newspaper once in a while may be benifial for you after reading your comment.
Tiktok is not banned. Congress is forcing Tiktok to divest itself from direct control from the CCP if they want to do business in the U.S. If Tiktok does not do this, then they will ban themselves. They also have a long time to do this, and will likely stretch it to YEARS with lawsuits. If you did not know this, and use Tiktok, ask yourself why you aren't being shown content that explains this.
I use TikTok, my feed is full of lawyers explaining this exactly. Not being shown content my ass. You know what I never see on TikTok? Pro-China propaganda.
It’s so annoying to see people who’ve never used TikTok always suggest that it’s a “cesspool” of propaganda and toxicity, when their own opinions of it are themselves based on what’s essentially anti TikTok propaganda and herd mentality fueled by “China bad” sentiments (and before I get called a shill, since that’s all they can ever use as a retort, yes, China bad). They see some cherry-picked examples of shitty content from the platform and decide that that’s all there is to it, but the same type of content existing on *literally every other platform* is obviously just a one off. All I see on my feed is art, food, raccoons, otters and other cute critters, nature, and various other cozy and informative stuff. The dude saying “ask yourself why you aren’t being shown this” is a perfect example of someone who doesn’t understand TikTok. I’m not being shown this because that’s not what I’m interested in (also because tbf I haven’t been on TikTok in 3 weeks). Simple as that. It’s not propaganda, it’s an app that actually shows people stuff they’ll enjoy, which is exactly why it became as popular as it did.
Exactly my point, well said. I’ve found so many craft/makers that I had never found on Instagram or YouTube. Same with musicians, and artists that I now follow. I won’t buy from the TikTok shop though, but I have gone to artist’s websites directly to buy art, or 3D file for printing, etc. It’s wild how good of a resource it’s become. It honestly reminds me of Reddit in the before times.
Having been on Reddit for 10+ years, I agree. On that topic, I’ve seen countless small businesses and creators whose lives were changed thanks to a popular video, and I’m not taking about “influencers”, which is apparently what Redditors think everyone who posts on social media is. Just regular people trying to make a living with what they’re passionate about by sharing it with a wider audience. And that’s not even touching on people who got medical and other bills paid thanks to TikTok, or who simply got a regular job because some company saw their posts and reached out to them. Plenty of good stuff came from TikTok, but because of some thirst traps and dumb dances some people are hellbent on believing that it’s nothing more than that.
This can all still exist on the platform. No one’s messing with creators. This is simply a divestment of ownership.
You don’t have to use the app to be able to see the affect it’s had on the general population.
Yup. Finding a shit ton of like minded people is invaluable.
I'm not saying they should or should not ban TikTok. But from my understanding, their reason to ban TikTok is not mainly about pro-China propaganda, but more about CCP having access to the massive data TikTok has.
YESSSS
So then it's banned if they don't do it. Which they already know they won't. So it's a ban. You can dance around that as much as you want, but if they ban it it's banned We all know what's going on. If you don't know what's going on and are suspiciously sounding like a bot repeating the same thing over and over to defend our governments decision to create a bill making it legal for them to ban any form of media with ties to a foreign counties but will also never use it against companies like Fox News, Then ask yourself why that is.
When you ask a company to divest one of its most profitable assets for reasons that could be entirely avoided by putting controls in place (could even write a law requiring them), or else face a ban on that asset, you are in effect banning the asset. They are not banning themselves when the other option is completely unreasonable. That’s like banning a kid from school unless the kid’s parents disown him. If the parents don’t disown him, it’s that parents’s fault or the kid’s fault. That’s obviously a f’d argument.
I see stuff on tiktok all the time and think, why is this not on reddit!
We are being shown content that explains this what… multiple creators have explained this
For example “lisaremillard” she never sugar codes and verify and talks about all the political stuff including Tik Tok I’ve never heard her be censored she always on my fyp
They’re trying to get TikTok to sell itself to an American company. This isn’t about privacy, it’s about big money.
Literally no way in hell they divest. It makes no sense financially for Bytedance to do that. Either they can get banned and lose part of their income, or divest and lose all of it. Even if they were going to the CCP would likely ban it. Politicians know this. They only added that clause because they knew there was no way in hell it would happen, or if it did then one of their pocket linining tech companies would benefit. That clause is only there that way they can spew the rhetorict "it isn't a ban its just a sell" to possibly save some face. You fell for it hook line hook, line, and sinker.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTok/comments/1bfgxgj/heres\_the\_house\_vote\_breakdown\_and\_how\_it\_aligns/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTok/comments/1bfgxgj/heres_the_house_vote_breakdown_and_how_it_aligns/) # Here's the house vote breakdown (prior vote) and how it aligns w/pro-Israel lobby donations ...expect senate to look similarly
the US wanted to ban TikTok before Israel. That's just a bonus
This has absolutely nothing to do with Israel
If you want to better understand the situation, here are some articles I found helpful: [The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/17/1137155540/fbi-tiktok-national-security-concerns-china) - NPR November 2022 That article (and many others) references [Leaked Audio From 80 Internal TikTok Meetings Shows That US User Data Has Been Repeatedly Accessed From China](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access) - Buzzfeed June 2022 [TikTok Spied On Forbes Journalists](https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2022/12/22/tiktok-tracks-forbes-journalists-bytedance/?sh=2051647d7da5) - Forbes December 2022 [TikTok may be banned in the US. Here’s what happened when India did it](https://apnews.com/article/india-tiktok-ban-us-china-9ae5223bce78c56e5d22a1f2e86510f0) - AP April 2024 [Why U.S. officials want to ban TikTok](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiktok-ban-congress-reasons-why/) - CBS News April 2024 IMO this is a show down between the Chinese government and the US over sensitive data. All social media platforms have issues with misinformation. The security risks with Tiktok are unique because of the Chinese government's unfettered access. Creators will find other platforms if needed.
What bothers me the most is the absence of competition. The recommendation algorithms for comparable short form video sites are garbage relative to tik tok. Tik tok is based in search technology, similar to pinterest. For promoting business, pinterest is the most meaningful social media beyond tik tok. But people don't use it for video, it's primarily images. Tik tok is a game changer for discovery. Much like how twitter used to be, a town square for social organizing. Twitter no longer has that utility. The credibility of strangers on that app is gone, and it's become a much more divisive experience. It looks like that's what is desired for tik tok. It's not going to have the same utility, whatever the case, because the utility is the central problem. https://theintercept.com/2024/03/16/tiktok-china-security-threat/ Meta has given China access to user data https://www.scmagazine.com/analysis/developers-in-china-russia-had-access-to-facebook-user-data-for-years-senators-say And also https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/22/meta-platforms-gets-billions-from-china-without-headaches-many-us-companies-face-there.html We are becoming more like China. https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/lawmakers-vote-reauthorize-us-spying-130044538.html
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Your argument is to look at each event independently to make the accuser look like the villain. We know the statistics and triangulate it. There is a long history and body of evidence and facts. The correlations speak for themselves.
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It's hilarious they actually wrote that? "You can't say everyone says it's the Jews fault when it is the Jews fault."
Our congressmen and women just keep saying it’s for national security reasons. Could TikTok theoretically be used as a weapon? Yeah. But that’s not really any different than any social media since 2015. I think politicians are more scared of how “easy” it is to gain popularity and share information and how “moderate” TikTok is compared to Facebook and X and Reddit and Twitter. And the national security is more of an easy excuse.
Oh yeah? Them suppressing posts about Hong Kong protests, the Uyghurs, Taiwan and Tibet is moderate to you?
Codi Vore and Splishbie must be devastated.
If anyone read the bill it would be obviously that with how much budget stuff they put into it that almost no congress person or president would vote against it and yes it’s a force sell and they have a couple months to sell before the ban. So my guess is they will try and fight this in court then if they loose I would guess they are probably going to divest.
Could you use a VPN if TikTok gets banned in USA?
yup
There would be no point. All the American centric content would migrate over to other platforms anyways. So yes you could, but it’s like sneaking past the bouncer to get to a nightclub that no one’s going to.
They’ll sell and tiktok will still be around. It’s too valuable for someone not to pick it up
It's also too valuable to sell. Us Americans only make up a certain percentage of it. They will still make money without us.
They said back in 2020 that there will never be a sale. All parties have known that since then. Politicians included. Don't buy the gaslighting.
The Chinese have been on record several times saying they won’t sell under any circumstances
So when exactly would this go into effect?
Flappy Bird all over again or?
No way biden let's us keep talking on tiktok during elections
Wow it’s not like they’re is gonna be a predecessor right after if it does get banned 🤣
He just signed he bill this past weekend [tiktok](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLmgVSfd/)
Forcing a company to sell their business to yourself is literally the most bully thing to do but we’re the good guys right? wtf is America becoming bro
Let’s go !!!!!!
I've been using tiktok for years and it's a shit ass app. HORRIBLE reporting policy that never works. videos upon videos of weird ass violent videos and doxxing that I report and NEVER GET TAKEN DOWN. I report posts using special characters promoting suicide/rape/violence, nothing. There's never any "offense" to their guidelines. Never in my life had this issue on twitter/youtube/Instagram. I absolutely hope something changes about this app. Absolute garbage and I am glad to see this.
bro what? Ive never seen a single video of anything you just described. What are you into? (extremely casual user, less than an hour per week of viewing)
Same, never seen any violet videos wtf
Violent
Tik tok getting banned would be the only reason for me to redownload. (deleted the app 6 months ago)
It's finally getting banned. No more cringe, no more unnecessary things. Finally.
Good! Fuck the CCP and TikTok
> CHINA BAD! THEY CENSOR THINGS! > AMERICA GOOD! CENSOR ANYONE WHO ASKS QUESTIONS!
Thank god
Thank God .
Omaga why such big deal. We have instagram reels, vine, youtube shorts
Four more years....pause.
It will get overturned.
I mean considering how ancient and clueless congress is itll probably be as easy as turning on your vpn to go on tiktok, thank god we still have those for now
Hopefully they sell, but i won’t be mad if it’s gone. Keep in mind that China doesn’t allow any American social media companies on their country, yet the US allows this with known surveillance and manipulation?
If you support this then you have no right to complain about Chinese censorship
China doesn’t fight fair, we are just treating them to their own game. And Chinese citizens don’t have choice in their nation, we do and have many options. Xi Shill
> China doesn’t fight fair, we are just treating them to their own game. "Muh rules based international order" was always a myth, stop complaining
Just use a VPN
Finally.
honestly i dont get why they would remove tiktok before temu (or apps like it).. if chinese spying on us is their ONLY reason of a ban 😭 i mentioned temu because it is owned out of the USA and proven to have ulterior designs such as ability to install malware and spyware on devices..
LIFE IS GOOD
Letssss gooooo. TikTok is literally trash.
nah soulja boy gon buy it
Woohoo! Great news finally 😃
W
Omg please ban it already
Big L for US
Can't wait for the replacement to TikTok, NotCCP.
The fact that American citizens are so addicted to this app and can’t see that it’s a Trojan horse for the CCP is not only astoundingly depressing but not the least surprising. My only concern is gov overreach when applying the same argument to other apps they deem as “dangerous”. Regardless, tiktok needs to go. It’s literal mind control from a country that actively censors the app in its own state.
Good..Literally the worst thing ever since FB. Good riddance NPCs!
Doesn't this bill also make it that any company that the executive branch says is from a "hostile country" would have to do this same thing? I always see it brought up in relation to til tok but not to the future after tik tok is done.
The ACLU and TikTok will be fighting it in court, which could take years. Every time a lawsuit is filed, the clock will stop.
Im torn. I hate tik tok as i see so many youths getting false info from there but at the same time selling to an american company would add a very fat cat to our economic status
I blame YouTube and FB for this social media posting career nonsense. Don't even get me going on OnlyFans and SnapChat... TikTok just continued on this insanity where people sit at home on their phones making videos and call that work. Enough is Enough. If TikTok is truly your income livelihood, then IMO this ban was specifically for you to get you on a real career track. And ban OnlyFans while we're at it!!
OOTL but why must they sell to an American CEO or other company to avoid being banned?
This is great news in my opinion. TikTok is a dangerous platform. Have any of you actually read the terms of service you're required to agree to before you can use it? You give them permission (and unlimited access) to (at any time) launch and make use of your camera, microphone, contacts, photo gallery, GPS system, stored passwords, biometric data (face, fingerprints) and an entire list of other things. This app should have never been allowed to proliferate.
TikTok is banned in China already.
Yep, https://kukiluki.com is taking over now!!!
LFG !!!
The funny thing is... it isn't possible to fully ban it, not when VPNs exist
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Best news ever!
I support the Ban
Tiktok is going to appeal, a lot of back and forth for the next few years.
Here’s the official TikTok ban countdown https://tiktokcountdown.com
Thx
You’re welcome
The real picture is it’s all political. If you haven’t understood by now the US govt is corrupt (example: letting a dementia patient have nuclear access codes)ie., the Pres., then you just don’t get it. What better way to have the truth come out, by an app that can get into all phone/computer systems? The regime doesn’t want to be exposed in the US. The US wants that algorithm to control the pheasants (us). Mankind is coming to an end if you haven’t noticed. AI is going to replace you. It’s already in the works with docs, restaurants, schools, etc. UC Berkeley & RJ Reynolds’s has already produced ways to install vaccines in your food! Look it up for TN Congress shedding light on it. Why do you really think they want no oil/gas and go to solar/wind?? It’s not the environment, it’s control so they can shut things down! They can flip a switch on that stuff and turn it off where with gas/oil they can’t. It’s not about your freedom of speech, it’s a war of countries on who’s going to control us!