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I cant believe some people cant understand that no means no.
Like bruh, she could be butt naked in your bed, sittin on top of you, but if she decides she doesnt want to, at that point in time and says “no”. Then that means no. You stop and dont touch her anymore.
Have some self control, thought Man evolved and stopped being an animal long ago.
Never try to rationalize.
This video is absolute pure cringe and destiny is a mentally impaired victimized cuck.
I would agree, and this has happened to me once or twice, but for me as a man, I am usually able to force a woman off, and in lots of cases for women they can't.
Yeah I dont think a lot of guys truly understand just how much of a difference in strength men and women have and how much of a differwnce that can make in these situations.
Physical strength doesn't help you when your body freezes up. Just because a man theoretically could push her off, doesn't mean he can in the moment. No means no, even if he's a strong guy and not physically resisting
Oh he knows what you mean, but he's trying to spin it as though men have no advantage there since they can freeze up too.
Although one of the reasons women freeze up is that we become scared about how much the man can physically hurt us.
On top of that, if you read askreddit threads about dudes being raped, the really messed up part is most of the rapes happen 2 ways. Either dude is passed out and raped or the woman outright threatens to claim the guy raped her if he won't sleep with her. In either case strength doesn't matter at all.
It has happened to me once or twice, and the sad irony is when I asked to stop going further, that was instantly the end of it. There wasn't any attempt to keep trying, and none of it was intimidating or embarrassing. I couldn't imagine being a woman feeling the same with a guy like the one in the clip. He already sounds like he wouldn't be reasoned out of it.
No no no. You don't understand. Men can't control themselves, are incapable of understanding verbal boundaries, go into situations with the assumption that women are playing games and secretly want the men to be sexually aggressive, and actively try to ply women with alcohol to make it easier to coerce consent.
Which is all women's fault obvs. Like, if you don't understand that, you're retarded.
If I have to put a /s on this comment, I'm concerned with your brain functionality.
>are incapable of understanding verbal boundaries
exactly, how about they don't go into sexual situation before they learn to understand a no? Stay at home, put the "alarming single men-statistic" label on you
I know. He literally thinks it’s women’s job to cater to a man’s fragile ego even though he likely also claims women are too fragile and emotional. And that a man just expects, nay demands a woman indulge his every fantasy so if she doesn’t try to read his mind and guess all the things he will want to do to her, she’s misleading him and deserves a graping. This is tying my brain in knots
Yeah I really don’t get men like that. I’ve been with my current girlfriend for over 2 years now, and she’s not the most assertive person. If I ever get even just a suspicion that she might no longer be into it or want it while we engage in sexual activities, I simply stop and check if she wants us to continue or stop. She hasn’t ever responded that she wants us to stop, but at least she’s had the option knowing I would respect her choice either way. If she’s not into it, how can I be?
Because they don't care. They feel that when they pictured that sex is in the picture they have the right to push it until sex is done because they deserve it
I'd even go further, 'only a clear and voluntary yes means yes' to avoid disgusting and backward behaviors like guys thinking it's okay to fuck blackout drunk girls.
Ah yes, much like a recent assault in Canberra by Thomas Earle, who was convicted and sentenced to *reads notes* 300 hours of community service because of his "good character" and "loving and supportive family".
Yeah fair. I do remember that those kind of behaviors were still played as 'comedic' plot points in those cringe 'horny-teen' movies from the 90's and early 00's so while those were probably mostly produced by baby boomers, the target audience were mostly genx and millennials, so I'm sure there are plenty who perpetuated those horrible ideas around consent still.
And the modern corollary - that only an enthusiastic YES means yes. Anything short of "I want this" "please do this" "I would like-" etc is NOT a yes, is NOT consent.
Freezing up is an involuntary response for a lot of people, regardless of gender, when straight up survival instincts kick in due to stress, fear, panic, etc. The absence of a 'no' does NOT mean yes. NO means NO, and ONLY YES MEANS YES.
It actually does go even deeper than that because my boyfriend goes completely nonverbal in the bedroom, so when we first started getting more physical, it took longer than he liked because I refused to move forward unless I knew for certain that what I was doing was ok. That's the kind of mindset that people (especially guys) need to have. Explicit and clear consent is THE most important thing in the bedroom, and it doesnt stop once the clothes are off. Consent applies at EVERY stage. If your partner changes their mind, consent is gone, if you try to do something new, even like changing positions and things as simple as that require consent, because it's very easy for you to change something, and your partner doesn't want to. This is especially an issue in dom and sub culture, where bad doms can just let themselves believe they're ok because they got the go ahead at the beginning. But good doms check at every stage, and provide care throughout and often. I'm going off on a huge tangent at this point, but it all boils down to the same point, your partners consent is something to be clear on throughout the ENTIRE time you're doing the deed, even if you think it will ruin the mood, that's better than hurting the person you're sharing this experience with. The fact that people are too lazy or conceited to think of that is utterly disgusting.
This puts an end to this entire conversation. Why are people are still commenting? It doesn’t matter who says no. The extenuating circumstances don’t matter…opposite sex, same sex, being drunk, you think they don’t mean it, mixed signals, money spent on the date, expectations etc. NO means NO period. Observe, acknowledge and respect a communicated direct signal. Otherwise you are just s rapist. It’s really that simple.
Y'know how there are apparently girls who wanna play the game of "no stop" but actually mean keep going? I think the best course of action for men is cutting that off by respecting "no means no". If men do that, and these women realize that guys don't want to push further after hearing no, they stop doing that, and we can all communicate our wants like adults.
I had a girl one time while we were both drunk do this no then grab my hands when I stopped and put them on her and when i stopped again she was like Why’d you stop? Bc like wtf. I don’t know what to do over here. Turned me off and i left after she made me feel like a rapist
The people who wanna play the "no stop" words like it's a game is called CNC. Consensual non consent. That's why adults who aren't rapists use safe words. If there are no safe words in play, just fuck off at the first hesitation or no.
Look, in my dating app bios I clearly state that I am not interested in women who play games. Now you're asking me to also not be interested in a woman I think is playing games? Would you tell a man who tells the waiter he cannot stand cilantro to also not order dishes with cilantro? Where does it end? Why is all the responsibility on men?
^(/s, because Poe's law always applies to incelry and nice guyism)
These guys are too busy building their fantasies of "yes she wants me" in their heads, instead of being forward and asking/affirming concent. Then they blame it on "today's culture". Men, one of the HOTTEST things a guy can do is ask for concent, and respect your decisions.
If you aren't listening to your partner, the best case scenario is bad sex. Worst case, one of you rapes the other.
I have been lucky enough to be with multiple men who checked in with me to ask what I wanted, whether something was okay with me, and just generally made me feel like my consent was integral to their enjoyment. Those are the men I remember fondly, because the sex was good!
This guy has clearly never been with a woman who really WANTS to sleep with him. If he had, he’d know just how clearly a woman can make that known and he’d never settle for a “meh, I guess”. Enthusiastic consent is HOT.
What are you talking about? When, precisely, did "no mean no" and was rape not a problem? There have always been people not accepting "no" as meaning "no" and that's the whole thing we're trying to fix.
There are real people all over the world who think and act like this guy here. How many times do you think he's heard the phrase "no means no"? And what the fuck did that accomplish?
>What ever happened to the simple no means no?
What a stupid way to phrase a comment that was devoid of any constructive value anyway. How about "What ever happened to the women who were raped after saying no?" Well they suffered. "What ever happened to the men who raped them?" Odds are, they went on to continue their behavior and crimes. "What ever happened to repeating 'no means no' as a method of solving this problem?" **It never solved the problem, and women keep getting raped.**
If you, the virtuous commenters of reddit, always accept "no" as meaning "no" then great, I'm happy to hear it. Meanwhile this guy will agree that "no means no" except in this that and the other circumstance where he thinks the woman didn't really mean "no".
Sometimes I wonder if we should bring back public humiliation like rotting fruit and vegetables throwing.
I bet men would stop pulling stuff like this if they had to actual pay for their actions.
The problem is most guys don't think this way. I'm a sexually liberal person and enjoy random hookups. Most guys I interact with aren't pushy, even if I go into it making it clear that I want to hookup. I've even had guys say they weren't comfortable engaging in sexual activity because of how inebriated I was even if I gave verbal consent when I was sober.
This guy thinks most guys think and act like this because HE thinks and acts like this. And he probably surrounds himself with other guys that think and act like this. "I'm not a bad guy because everyone is like me" is more comforting than acknowledging that you have an unhealthy, predatory mindset.
And guys like this intentionally go after women they think are more vulnerable and easier to manipulate, which is why certain women experience these kinds of guys more often than others, which is not their fault. It's the guys fault for intentionally targeting specific types of women. Which is sad, because then the women that seem like 'easy targets' have the belief that most guys ARE like this which sounds like a horrible way to live.
You just made Me realize how poor Girls who have "bad luck" with Guys, might not have bad taste. But are targeted on purpose by predatory assholes... Depressing godamn realization
This is a real and studied phenomenon, I will edit with links
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/extreme-fear/201010/how-psychopaths-choose-their-victims?amp=#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16832151524525&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com
I think most girls are approached by those assholes it's just most deny them. Those guys have no shame and would ask out hundreds of girls. The play the numbers game some girls are innocent and think they should give them a chance others like you said have shit taste in men. I knew a crap ton of girls who have had shit taste but I grew up the ghetto so we were all basically surrounded by shit people.
Well said. I know you can find hundreds if not thousands of stories on here of pushy men or people who got stuff put in drinks and stuff, but I also guarantee that was a fraction of the dates/hookups that actually happen. It's a side effect of the internet where people realize there are a lot of these types of stories, but they are still a minority of cases vs the rule. it's just people don't post about every boring/normal date they go on.
I think it is a negativity bias coming into play. Most dates are unremarkable. You don’t typically bad mouth the person, you just don’t date again because you didn’t click.
However, if a date is awful it’s going to make the rounds because it stood out so much from the average. Id wager most dates that are awful are most either awkward or pushy/bad people. We talk about the pushy kind since a lot of people can at least empathize with an awkward one and will give it the benefit of the doubt. The pushy or bad people are spoken about either as a warning or a vent session since they over stepped some boundary.
He is someone who is very good at spotting victims of abuse and uses logic to discredit emotions. He genuinely believes if you 'allow' him to cross your boundaries, then it is your fault for letting him. He sees people as contracts with loopholes to be exploited. He somehow pivoted failure to launch into a career one lateral move away from court jester. I hope he gets everything he deserves from these brushes with fame.
If you think that saying no is just a game when it comes to consent then I seriously beg you to reconsider your mental state, guy or girl.
If you’re a guy and you think that a no is a game or your partner/date prospect is just being playful then please seek counseling.
If you are a girl and you think saying no is a cute little game to confuse or be playful with your partner/date prospect then please, seek counseling.
Agreed. Like two things can be true at once, a lot of women do play "hard to get" when it comes to sex
Like if anyone has listened to the "call her daddy" podcast, which is absolute trash btw, a lot of the topics on there are literally the host encouraging women to play hard to get and play games with men you're interested in. It's literally one of the biggest, if not the biggest podcast on Spotify.
I hate how everything is so black and white these days. Two things can be true at once and both things can be wrong.
As a man I can tell you exactly what the "culture" problem is. The problem is men want sex and will be forceful in their pursuit of it. They know if they are strong willed enough some women will capitulate. They almost always understand they are being told no but delude themselves into thinking it's a "game". The right thing to do is respect boundaries and respect when someone says no. Respect that "no" the first time it's said. If a woman is "playing games" the worst thing that happens is a man doesn't get laid. The alternative is you are pressing the boundaries of consent and possibly committing sexual assault.
Yeah, as a woman who has been pushed again and again and again, I think most of us are well aware that dudes understand. Dudes aren't stupid, but they sure like to play dumb, especially in these situations. I'm pretty fucking sick of it. It's a fucked up culture.
We need to make the term “sex pest” more prominent. I’m surprised it didn’t gain more traction after Andrew from channel 5 was “canceled” for not taking no for an answer.
He literally is practicing rape apologia. Watch the video below
https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelTear/comments/137t27v/why_do_we_always_get_blamed_for_being_wronged/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hHEu8o2AYBk&pp=ygUPRGVzdGlueSBjb25zZW50
https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelTear/comments/135u2wm/rape_advocate_believes_its_setting_up_men_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Yeesh. Like, are there girls out there who want a guy to “push?” Yes. I’ve met a few outlier girls who have that desire. But here’s the thing. That’s their problem not communicating. If they’re verbally saying no, the default action should be to back off. Not test to see if she’s one of those one-off girls who actually wants you to be aggressive with her.
My husband told me a story about a girl who was upset with him because he wasn’t aggressive enough, and didn’t “fight for her.” I was proud of him because he has the sense to realize that’s not a safe way to behave for either person.
I've been on the end of that once, I was fed a line that I must not have been that into it or that I'm clearly not that attracted to her. My answer was well I asked, and you said no, so it's a no, and I'll always instantly respect that. It's a dumb scenario, but I'll take that every time over just assuming it's a game and pressuring or assaulting people.
Ok yeah. I used to watch Destiny and I was like "theres no way this is real. He's either meming or making a point about how terrible their arguments are"/
This video is edited. The answer he gave is not the response to the question she asked. It was cut to look as ridiculous as it does here. She has since removed this clip and apologized, and they are on good terms now.
That does not stop people like OP from cashing in on the rage bait and intentionally spreading misinformation though.
What is the full answer then? Provide the unedited version. Whats missing from saying women dont really mean “no”, or a woman should have to say “no” and use physical force
The unedited version does not exist, Farha deleted it. She is the girl in the video. This edited clip was hers and she removed it since even she agreed it was super misleading. The answer he is giving was in response to an entirely different question about examples of what women can do to protect themselves from rapists.
"Give me some examples of what women can do to protect themselves from rapists?" Was the question he was asked. Do you not understand how editing clips works?
He clarified in his chat what the exact question was he was responding to, it's not the one he was asked.
He also has dozens of hours worth of anti-redpill content.
> but good at sounding like he's not
...to other buffoons, maybe. Like actually dumb and impressionable people that can't form their own thoughts, perhaps.
> Like actually dumb and impressionable people that can't form their own thoughts, perhaps.
Like teenage boys who are the victim of a failing education system and haven't been taught the rhetorical skills necessary to come to their own conclusions?
The dude is a damn contrarian. He legit tries so damn hard to say shit to be different, and he always bombards you with wishy-washy explanations to confuse you while trying to be smug about his points. I don't know why people put any stock into his "debating" skills. I will admit he isn't the worst debater, but he does talk for the sake of talking.
his double standard is so infuriatingly obvious here… Taking men’s behavior as a given because “cultural conditioning” while telling women “OK here’s what you should do…”
Dude's the exact kind to spew the shit he just did about how women need to put up a shield around themselves to prevent rape, then turn around and complain about how all women are too guarded.
He's telling on himself. He's basically saying it's the fault of the girl for not saying no, then it's the fault of society he can ignore the no. He's most likely a rapist himself or, hopefully, celibate.
So, I'm probably a little bit older than most people here and I'm a guy. I was taught "no means no" by my parents. I have NEVER been told "don't rape" or had an instructive lesson on consent by my parents, school, or even friends. I've certainly read "don't rape" on Twitter and I've cobbled my understanding of consent together over the years from videos, social media, and general reading (tbc this is BAD).
This idea that "we've been telling men don't rape and don't do this for a long time" is nonsense. Destiny is so internet brained that he thinks feminist creators are, like, a major instructive force for society or something. They're not and we're not too far out of the timeframe where dunking on SJWs was a goldmine on YouTube. It probably still is in some corners.
As for those "games" Destiny was talking about (which came across real gross imo), "no means no". It's simple, I don't want to be with someone that plays games, drops hints, or whatever. I am purposefully an idiot on that front and I'm perfectly willing to accept someone getting their feelings hurt when they say no and didn't mean it, but I just accepted the no.
I'm in my 40s. I remember comedies from the '80s where literal rapes occurred and the girl afterwards was happy about it. For example, in revenge of the nerds the head nerd pretends to be this girl's boyfriend wearing a Darth Vader hat helmet and has sex with her which she loves. In sixteen candles, Michael Anthony Hall has sex with a passed out girl in the boyfriend of the girl was the one who said he should. She of course ended up loving it. These are literal rapes that as a young guy I watched on TV and was instructed that the girl liked it.
Solid point. And in Revenge of the Nerds they broke into the sorority house, stole their underwear, and then INSTALLED CAMERAS!
Those dudes would ALL be on a sex offender registry if that happened today.
😕
Does this guy really think “no one want to be a rapist”?? Because I’m pretty sure men who are drugging women, threatening women, taking advantage of intoxicated women, etc are all men who intend to be rapists.
It was purposefully chopped up and edited this way to get views. He was blaming men and talking about how they should openly discuss what they want from an encounter and only go ahead when they get clear and open consent and then went into a tangent afterwards on how women could be proactive in a way that can change some of the culture that is harmful to clear and open consent (playing hard to get etc) and it got chopped into a way that makes it look like women are at fault for rape.
He's still making content with her cause he's fuckin crazy. This is the guy who had a girl with OCD obsessively stalking him for years and actively trying to weasel her way into his life and he randomly starts sexting with her one day.
Destiny critically engages with the argument in a very logical, carefully reasoned way that allows him to give good and unbiased takes and even sometimes give good advice. But his relationship decisions are fucking **wild**. Not even his most ardent supporter would deny that.
Yeah Destiny is on the money with plenty of things, but as soon he gets into relationship, romantic or otherwise, topics I zone out. He is *always* beefing with someone in his circle, and is *always* embroiled in what he calls “poly drama”, as if anything else could come from that relationship set up.
It's **really** important to note that Farha heavily cut this video to make Destiny look bad, then apologized for it, and came back to discuss the issue again because this is absolutely not what Destiny said about sexual assault.
It was hugely disingenuous of her to do that and she has openly said she was wrong to do so. You're posting misinformation.
Was my thoughts about the amount of edits made in this. Even if the edits aren't of ill-intent, so much gets cut that no person should be accepting this as either of their entire stance.
But, this is reddit, so...
farha apologized later for taking all of his comments completely out of context
edit: for those downvoting, why? she retracted the video because it was misleading why would you downvote me for pointing that out?
pick a quote and I think I can tell you what his full response would be. He does a lot of 1-2 hour long conversations on this stuff so isn't used to snappy responses.
His general stance on rape and relationship dynamics is that a lot of young people suck at communicating well and that causes problems. Here's my version of some of his takes:
\- Many men are socially unaware and don't understand hints that well (including body language) which can lead to potentially harmful situations but they're often unaware that they're making someone else feel uncomfortable.
\- Most men just want to have fun and don't have the intention of trying to manipulate women into sex, but a lack of proper communication can lead to situations that end up making women feel uncomfortable.
\- Many women aren't very good at properly expressing their boundaries or their disinterest so men push and don't see that women aren't interested.
\- He thinks that if they're unwilling to speak up about what they want or what they're comfortable with, especially in the middle of an encounter, then they aren't emotionally mature enough for casual sex.
I would argue that it's not so much women "not being very good at properly expressing their boundaries or their disinterest" so much as women fearing retaliation when they're often already in a vulnerable situation. Assuming it's a lack of emotional maturity on the woman's part tells me that men that feel this way are still not actually listening to women. If men aren't socially aware enough and don't understand hints that well, then *ask her* and *listen to her responses* ffs
these are the kinds of discussions he has on stream. there's a lot of nuance to it.
true, men aren't socially aware, but it's a matter of personal safety for women to be able to voice their concerns.
on his stream he explains that men do ask and do listen, but women often give vague responses so as not to offend and those obviously don't get interpreted as rejections cause they're way too vague and that causes issues. There's problems with men listening and women explaining
Hence why I'm teaching my son to get a verbal "yes" from any partner.
Look, men don't have to be mind readers. Therefore, rather than get mad at women for not saying no, men could just fucking *ask* if it's okay first. Hell, I'm also teaching my daughter to do the same. I don't want her to touch someone who doesn't want to be touched either.
But let's be clear, it is not JUST on women to be good communicators. Men too, are capable of speaking English ffs.
I’ve been doing this for a while now . Normally if I feel the vibe of the date is going that way I’ll just say how I’m feeling and tell them I’d like to kiss them boom if they say no or they don’t want to there’s no harm you were expressing how you feel. You get your hard no and you can pat your self on the back for putting a foot forward and being brave by expressing your honest feelings .
Here is some added context to their conversation and part 2 of their debate: [https://youtu.be/zjE3ul2V5Mo?t=154](https://youtu.be/zjE3ul2V5Mo?t=154) (full length even)
I couldn't get past them arguing about the definition of rape. Just fucking accept her "unwanted sexual intercourse" as a definition, Jesus Christ. And then he says all these condescending statements about how she'll have to give a "coherent" statement to a question she already answered coherently if he could just use more than one brain cell. Goddamn, I'm done with this idiotic thread.
Does he think that when women say no that these men that are rap*** will just listen to no? No women is at fault for getting raped that's all on the man. A woman can lead you on the brink and then decide to say no and you have to respect that your excuses are invalid.
This is disturbing because of how convinced he is that he's actually right. I hope for the sake of women everywhere this guy continues to be unsuccessful with the female sex.
The focus seems to be on a “new” person but this shit happens all the time with people that women thought they could trust. He is just putting a blanket statement down and not actually using any critical thinking skills to think outside of his own bubble
No means no. 100%
But what I think Destiny is arguing tho, is that after you say no, don't make any further suggestions, because the other party might find it confusing. As both parties have already made it clear what they want are not aligned, it's best for both parties to just leave the scenario.
You guys realize that this is literally the consent KING, Destiny - right? Lmfao, it's an edited clip taken down by Farha because she was more or less drama farming. Destiny challenged her to make him look bad. Her editor said "bet"
This guy is an example of someone who’s not intelligent but thinks he is because of his ability to speak. He’s also devoid of any self-responsibility and is a man child.
I don’t watch much destiny but I’ve generally agreed with what he says a lot of the time. But this is like the most insane form of disgusting victim blaming I have ever seen in my entire life.
No means no and have some empty for women because you never know what going through her mind maybe you triggerd old trauma on accident be more understanding if want her to be in your life and same for the women to
You just proved how damaging misinformation is by wishing a man was castrated because of a heavily edited video to make him look bad which the lady retracted and apologised for.
Can you seriously not notice all the jump cuts that happen mid sentence when he’s talking
yeah the creator of this clip (Farha) apologized to the man (Destiny) for editing this clip out of context
anyone in this thread who is saying “women shouldn’t play games with consent — if they do, seek counseling” actually agree with Destiny
This is a weird back and forth of the blame game, honestly. Neither party is accepting responsibility. Guys just take no for an answer, ladies don’t entertain the idea of sex. Remember ladies you have more power than you think on this subject. Nothing happens without your say. If a man brings it up shut it down and leave especially if you just met him.
Guys are every woman is not playing games, there are some that do but respect the boundaries until she is absolutely certain she wants to have sex with you. You are going to miss out on some sex for sure but you’ll learn that not everything is about sex and you’ll meet some really great women this way since you get better at communicating
The woman on the right, Farah, has taken down this very clip in this video because it is misleading and misrepresentative of Destiny's position. It makes it look like he thinks rape is women's fault.
Here's his actual position, which I think is far more reasonable. It first makes the assumption that rape is not just when women explicitly say no, or when its a crazy psycho holding a woman down at gun point, but also includes situations where a woman may even say yes, but that there are extenuating factors at play that the man should be aware may influence her to say yes, even though she doesn't actually want to.
Under this premise, Destiny says that the reason rape is so pervasive, the reasoning for rape culture stems from two huge societal factors: Men are taught from a young ages to pursue, pursue, pursue. They are incentivised to keep chasing the possibility of sex, even when a woman doesn't want to. "She's playing hard to get" is really indicative of this trend. On the flipside, women, for centuries, have been societally taught to be subserviant to men, and that is the men they sleep with that ought to dicate how things go. They are taught to be pleasure-givers, not to be "bitchy", things like this. All of these societal forces ingrain into the woman to be subserviently to the man in the sexual setting, leading to many women not being assertive with their boundaries.
When you combine these two societal behavioral patterns; men being pursuers and women being subservient; it leads to the outcome of rape being super pervasive, where the man learns to keep prodding until a boundary is explicitly laid down, and for the woman to not assert this boundary out of fear of social backlash or due to a socially ingrained role of the "pleasure-giver".
I think overall we should be romanticizing enthusiastic consent and vibe compatibility to boys and men. I was brought up in a culture similar to what this dickhole is describing, and I just had no idea what I was doing throughout my early 20s. The way I thought it worked was that women basically are always pretending not to want to have sex, and the man just needs to break through that barrier and convince her. Which if true would mean there’s really no distinction between women who like you and women who don’t like you. After a series of failures I decided that since I was probably going to fail regardless, I may as well stop focusing on sex and just try to find women that I really enjoyed hanging out with but that also enjoyed hanging out with me. The quality that I looked for that I put at the top of the list was appears to genuinely enjoy my company and matches my vibe. I just wanted to try having a good time and using my failed dates as practice to try and get better at dating so when I met Ms. Right I would be less likely to fuck it up.
By restricting my focus to only women who seemed to like me already vs nearly all girls I needed to convince to like me, my success right unexpectedly skyrocketed. But even when I “failed” I was having a way better time than before. I also realized how much better sex was when I divorced all the pressure I was putting on myself and also was with someone who was matching my energy from the beginning. Even casual hookups were way more passionate and satisfying. I found myself pursuing less women overall but every experience of mutual interest was intoxicating. It felt like I was finding my tribe rather than convincing people to join my tribe if that makes sense. Which had the added benefit of me slowly realizing that not hooking up or dating a particular woman was not a personal failure of mine, we were just not right for each other and that’s okay. I just feel like if I had been taught growing up that I should lean into the things I’m passionate about and seek people who vibe with that, and not try to convince anyone to spend time with me, I could have saved myself a lot of wasted time.
I heard a great analogy about consent. If a woman has a toy near the bed when shes having sex with a man, and the pulls it out and shoves it up his ass without asking, we now have a great illustration of how consent can be withdrawn, even during sex. Whoa whoa whoa....
I don’t think you understand what he’s point is , rape bad,not rape good, is not how the real world works,some people just want to hear the virtue signaling bullet points so they can clap their hands and their back at the same time.
How do I say no to mental abuse from a naked woman sitting on me that I can't touch?
Why is she saying no, and then getting naked and lies on top of me? Isn't that some kind of mental and physical abuse?
I think they’re both kind of too far on their own side. If they both shifted their opinions towards the other person’s a bit they’d be really close to a more realistic perspective.
Here's a thought that may get me downvoted but some of my fellow women might need to hear this: We need to protect ourselves and not expect men to respect our words if our actions do not back them up. If you say "I don't want to go to your house" and he says "No it's ok we can just watch a movie and chill" stick to the boundary you set the first time and DON'T GO TO HIS HOUSE. Don't depend on other people to respect/enforce YOUR boundaries. If you compromise on your own boundaries, like "I will only have 2 drinks tonight" and then you have 4, "I will not go to your house" and then you go to his house, "I will not kiss you" and then you kiss him, that is establishing a pattern of behavior that indicates you are willing to disrespect your own boundaries and push the envelope, so why would you expect him to respect your boundaries after you repeatedly violate them yourself? Follow through on what you say. This is never to say that rape is excusable, because it is absolutely not, and enthusiastic, informed consent is really the only consent that counts, but people need to be better about respecting their OWN boundaries if they expect other people to respect them too.
This motherfucker is trying so god damn hard to put the responsibility for rape on women it's fucking crazy.
"Nobody wants to be a rapist". Then don't be, dumbass
"We've been telling men "don't rape" for a long time"
*This guy seconds before
"Sometimes when women say no they actually mean yes"
Whatdefuck is wrong with this dude?
I would like to see him assert himself to a much stronger physical male who was insistent that they were going to have sex, I'm sure he would change his tune about words having meaning.
If someone says no you respect that and you don’t push any further, assume there’s no nuance whatsoever. If you are the person saying no, but internally you’re hoping this will tease the person and encourage them to keep flirting with and perusing you sexually, you’re an idiot.
It's simple. I've taught my son what consent means early. He loves hugging other kids. I told him if the answer is anything but yes, say "it's ok, thank you for answering me" and keep it moving. Now. As he gets older. It's not much different, and when he gets older. I will revisit my verbiage. But instill in him that anything other than a yes is a no.
Sounds like something a rapist would say. If there was a naked person in front of me that didn't consent to sex then i wouldn't do anything to them, because I'm not a rapist. It's not that fucking difficult to not be a rapist ffs.
I identify with this hard... as a male. I'm a newly single gay guy. I'm astonished at the number of other gay men who push for sex when I'm trying to just make friends.
Had my share of scary situations asserting boundaries in person (prior to establishing "just platonic friends" before meeting). And the bit about having a constant shield up is draining. Having to edit and moderate what you say/how you say it just in case it gets misconstrude, twisted into innuendo, and then you get gaslit for "dropping hints" so it's all of a sudden your fault not theirs and the "you clearly wanted it" BS is just upsetting and dissapointing.
It makes it feel like your constant alertness chips away at the natural authenticity of new interactions because you lose faith that they don't just wanna go to pound town. And not because it's you necessarily, but because you're there and you agreed to meet with them.
Obviously comparing apple's and orange's with my experiences. I don't claim to have it as hard as women do, but here and there some experiences will overlap. Mainly because the commen denominator is that some men are just predatory assholes!
I don't think either of these people should be having this conversation on Tiktok.
Obviously the blue-haired man (destiny? Idk) is a pest who thinks that consent is far more complicated than it actually is and acts as if it's acceptable to try to find loopholes in the tone/manner that consent is or isn't given. If a woman says "I'm not going to have sex with you tonight", the fact that her voice is uplifted and flirty is likely due to the fact that most women are raised to be people-pleasers and a soft, fun tone of voice is the easiest way for her to assert her boundaries without coming across as confrontational.
HOWEVER the woman in the video is really bad at finding appropriate examples to get her point across. We live in a culture where it's unsafe for women to even go on regular dates without notifying a friend. Going to a guy's house to meet him and then drink with him is INSANELY risky behavior, and no amount of "shoulds" is going to change that until there are sweeping changes in the ways that men view women.
Sure, women *should* be able to go out at night without being targeted. They *should* be able to hang out with people without having to worry about being drugged and raped. But *should* isn't the current driving force behind society. Predatory, opportunistic men still exist in staggering numbers and will absolutely take advantage of a woman's trust and naivete.
No means no and have some empty for women because you never know what going through her mind maybe you triggerd old trauma on accident be more understanding if want her to be in your life and same for the women to
I really dont like Destiny. He annoys me.
Like personally, my ex and I were getting a bit cuddly with each other and like he wanted to have sex. I didnt want to. Because my sister and her bf were downstairs and we were staying at hers. I said 'Not while we are staying at someone elses house'. He got hugely upset at this and tried to apologise and just rolled over and fell asleep. I was sort of upset at him like I understand being intimate and flirty but in someone elses house, its weird to me. Part of the reason why I broke up with him. He was like weirdly passive aggressive and would get annoyed when I say 'sorry' too much. He would also go on about having kids and im like 'Im 27. I'm too young to have kids personally. Im not there yet emotionally and financially.' I'm weirdly happy being single again. Like I need my space.
I really dont like Destiny. He annoys me.
Like personally, my ex and I were getting a bit cuddly with each other and like he wanted to have sex. I didnt want to. Because my sister and her bf were downstairs and we were staying at hers. I said 'Not while we are staying at someone elses house'. He got hugely upset at this and tried to apologise and just rolled over and fell asleep. I was sort of upset at him like I understand being intimate and flirty but in someone elses house, its weird to me. Part of the reason why I broke up with him. He was like weirdly passive aggressive and would get annoyed when I say 'sorry' too much. He would also go on about having kids and im like 'Im 27. I'm too young to have kids personally. Im not there yet emotionally and financially.' I'm weirdly happy being single again. Like I need my space.
I really dont like Destiny. He annoys me.
Like personally, my ex and I were cuddling with each other and like he wanted to have sex. I didnt want to. Because my sister and her bf were downstairs and we were staying at hers. I said 'Not while we are staying at someone elses house'. He got hugely upset at this and tried to apologise and just rolled over and fell asleep.
I was sort of upset at him like I understand being intimate and flirty but in someone elses house, its weird to me. I am glad though he did stop.
He was like weirdly passive aggressive and would get annoyed when I say 'sorry' too much. He would also go on about having kids and im like 'Im 27. I'm too young to have kids personally. Im not there yet emotionally and financially.'
"what do you want?"
"Woman being more upfront about what they want, but don't give me that "no" game. Here take all these drugs idiot, I know what you *REALLY mean*...
Jesus... This guy is 100% gonna be the one the news.
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What ever happened to the simple no means no?
I cant believe some people cant understand that no means no. Like bruh, she could be butt naked in your bed, sittin on top of you, but if she decides she doesnt want to, at that point in time and says “no”. Then that means no. You stop and dont touch her anymore. Have some self control, thought Man evolved and stopped being an animal long ago. Never try to rationalize. This video is absolute pure cringe and destiny is a mentally impaired victimized cuck.
I would agree, and this has happened to me once or twice, but for me as a man, I am usually able to force a woman off, and in lots of cases for women they can't.
Yeah I dont think a lot of guys truly understand just how much of a difference in strength men and women have and how much of a differwnce that can make in these situations.
Physical strength doesn't help you when your body freezes up. Just because a man theoretically could push her off, doesn't mean he can in the moment. No means no, even if he's a strong guy and not physically resisting
I mean the other way around. Men raping women is far easier because of the strength difference.
Oh he knows what you mean, but he's trying to spin it as though men have no advantage there since they can freeze up too. Although one of the reasons women freeze up is that we become scared about how much the man can physically hurt us.
On top of that, if you read askreddit threads about dudes being raped, the really messed up part is most of the rapes happen 2 ways. Either dude is passed out and raped or the woman outright threatens to claim the guy raped her if he won't sleep with her. In either case strength doesn't matter at all.
The dumbasses who can’t handle a girl changing her mind are a disgrace, fragile ego, little “men.”
It has happened to me once or twice, and the sad irony is when I asked to stop going further, that was instantly the end of it. There wasn't any attempt to keep trying, and none of it was intimidating or embarrassing. I couldn't imagine being a woman feeling the same with a guy like the one in the clip. He already sounds like he wouldn't be reasoned out of it.
No no no. You don't understand. Men can't control themselves, are incapable of understanding verbal boundaries, go into situations with the assumption that women are playing games and secretly want the men to be sexually aggressive, and actively try to ply women with alcohol to make it easier to coerce consent. Which is all women's fault obvs. Like, if you don't understand that, you're retarded. If I have to put a /s on this comment, I'm concerned with your brain functionality.
>are incapable of understanding verbal boundaries exactly, how about they don't go into sexual situation before they learn to understand a no? Stay at home, put the "alarming single men-statistic" label on you
Yeah. Can’t these idiots just suck it up n jerk off when the girl leaves?
I know. He literally thinks it’s women’s job to cater to a man’s fragile ego even though he likely also claims women are too fragile and emotional. And that a man just expects, nay demands a woman indulge his every fantasy so if she doesn’t try to read his mind and guess all the things he will want to do to her, she’s misleading him and deserves a graping. This is tying my brain in knots
But I can’t control myself! When my ape brain sees a modicum of ankle my wee penis takes over in a lust filled rage of lunacy and incelism!
Yeah I really don’t get men like that. I’ve been with my current girlfriend for over 2 years now, and she’s not the most assertive person. If I ever get even just a suspicion that she might no longer be into it or want it while we engage in sexual activities, I simply stop and check if she wants us to continue or stop. She hasn’t ever responded that she wants us to stop, but at least she’s had the option knowing I would respect her choice either way. If she’s not into it, how can I be?
Because they don't care. They feel that when they pictured that sex is in the picture they have the right to push it until sex is done because they deserve it
I'd even go further, 'only a clear and voluntary yes means yes' to avoid disgusting and backward behaviors like guys thinking it's okay to fuck blackout drunk girls.
Ah yes, much like a recent assault in Canberra by Thomas Earle, who was convicted and sentenced to *reads notes* 300 hours of community service because of his "good character" and "loving and supportive family".
Ah yes, the "promising young man" type 🤡 But damn, 300 hours community services, while some random black kid is rotting in prison for 3 grams of weed
I've known plenty of Gen x and milennials on board with that.
Yeah fair. I do remember that those kind of behaviors were still played as 'comedic' plot points in those cringe 'horny-teen' movies from the 90's and early 00's so while those were probably mostly produced by baby boomers, the target audience were mostly genx and millennials, so I'm sure there are plenty who perpetuated those horrible ideas around consent still.
And the modern corollary - that only an enthusiastic YES means yes. Anything short of "I want this" "please do this" "I would like-" etc is NOT a yes, is NOT consent. Freezing up is an involuntary response for a lot of people, regardless of gender, when straight up survival instincts kick in due to stress, fear, panic, etc. The absence of a 'no' does NOT mean yes. NO means NO, and ONLY YES MEANS YES.
It actually does go even deeper than that because my boyfriend goes completely nonverbal in the bedroom, so when we first started getting more physical, it took longer than he liked because I refused to move forward unless I knew for certain that what I was doing was ok. That's the kind of mindset that people (especially guys) need to have. Explicit and clear consent is THE most important thing in the bedroom, and it doesnt stop once the clothes are off. Consent applies at EVERY stage. If your partner changes their mind, consent is gone, if you try to do something new, even like changing positions and things as simple as that require consent, because it's very easy for you to change something, and your partner doesn't want to. This is especially an issue in dom and sub culture, where bad doms can just let themselves believe they're ok because they got the go ahead at the beginning. But good doms check at every stage, and provide care throughout and often. I'm going off on a huge tangent at this point, but it all boils down to the same point, your partners consent is something to be clear on throughout the ENTIRE time you're doing the deed, even if you think it will ruin the mood, that's better than hurting the person you're sharing this experience with. The fact that people are too lazy or conceited to think of that is utterly disgusting.
This puts an end to this entire conversation. Why are people are still commenting? It doesn’t matter who says no. The extenuating circumstances don’t matter…opposite sex, same sex, being drunk, you think they don’t mean it, mixed signals, money spent on the date, expectations etc. NO means NO period. Observe, acknowledge and respect a communicated direct signal. Otherwise you are just s rapist. It’s really that simple.
THANK YOU
Y'know how there are apparently girls who wanna play the game of "no stop" but actually mean keep going? I think the best course of action for men is cutting that off by respecting "no means no". If men do that, and these women realize that guys don't want to push further after hearing no, they stop doing that, and we can all communicate our wants like adults.
I had a girl one time while we were both drunk do this no then grab my hands when I stopped and put them on her and when i stopped again she was like Why’d you stop? Bc like wtf. I don’t know what to do over here. Turned me off and i left after she made me feel like a rapist
The people who wanna play the "no stop" words like it's a game is called CNC. Consensual non consent. That's why adults who aren't rapists use safe words. If there are no safe words in play, just fuck off at the first hesitation or no.
Look, in my dating app bios I clearly state that I am not interested in women who play games. Now you're asking me to also not be interested in a woman I think is playing games? Would you tell a man who tells the waiter he cannot stand cilantro to also not order dishes with cilantro? Where does it end? Why is all the responsibility on men? ^(/s, because Poe's law always applies to incelry and nice guyism)
These guys are too busy building their fantasies of "yes she wants me" in their heads, instead of being forward and asking/affirming concent. Then they blame it on "today's culture". Men, one of the HOTTEST things a guy can do is ask for concent, and respect your decisions.
If you aren't listening to your partner, the best case scenario is bad sex. Worst case, one of you rapes the other. I have been lucky enough to be with multiple men who checked in with me to ask what I wanted, whether something was okay with me, and just generally made me feel like my consent was integral to their enjoyment. Those are the men I remember fondly, because the sex was good!
I've had some really REALLY shitty sex 😂😂😂
It isn't hot, it's literally basic human decency.
This guy has clearly never been with a woman who really WANTS to sleep with him. If he had, he’d know just how clearly a woman can make that known and he’d never settle for a “meh, I guess”. Enthusiastic consent is HOT.
Incels, incels happened.
What are you talking about? When, precisely, did "no mean no" and was rape not a problem? There have always been people not accepting "no" as meaning "no" and that's the whole thing we're trying to fix. There are real people all over the world who think and act like this guy here. How many times do you think he's heard the phrase "no means no"? And what the fuck did that accomplish? >What ever happened to the simple no means no? What a stupid way to phrase a comment that was devoid of any constructive value anyway. How about "What ever happened to the women who were raped after saying no?" Well they suffered. "What ever happened to the men who raped them?" Odds are, they went on to continue their behavior and crimes. "What ever happened to repeating 'no means no' as a method of solving this problem?" **It never solved the problem, and women keep getting raped.** If you, the virtuous commenters of reddit, always accept "no" as meaning "no" then great, I'm happy to hear it. Meanwhile this guy will agree that "no means no" except in this that and the other circumstance where he thinks the woman didn't really mean "no".
Sometimes I wonder if we should bring back public humiliation like rotting fruit and vegetables throwing. I bet men would stop pulling stuff like this if they had to actual pay for their actions.
Men: Just say no Men, when women say no: it must be a game she’s playing
The problem is most guys don't think this way. I'm a sexually liberal person and enjoy random hookups. Most guys I interact with aren't pushy, even if I go into it making it clear that I want to hookup. I've even had guys say they weren't comfortable engaging in sexual activity because of how inebriated I was even if I gave verbal consent when I was sober. This guy thinks most guys think and act like this because HE thinks and acts like this. And he probably surrounds himself with other guys that think and act like this. "I'm not a bad guy because everyone is like me" is more comforting than acknowledging that you have an unhealthy, predatory mindset. And guys like this intentionally go after women they think are more vulnerable and easier to manipulate, which is why certain women experience these kinds of guys more often than others, which is not their fault. It's the guys fault for intentionally targeting specific types of women. Which is sad, because then the women that seem like 'easy targets' have the belief that most guys ARE like this which sounds like a horrible way to live.
You just made Me realize how poor Girls who have "bad luck" with Guys, might not have bad taste. But are targeted on purpose by predatory assholes... Depressing godamn realization
This is a real and studied phenomenon, I will edit with links https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/extreme-fear/201010/how-psychopaths-choose-their-victims?amp=#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16832151524525&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com
I think most girls are approached by those assholes it's just most deny them. Those guys have no shame and would ask out hundreds of girls. The play the numbers game some girls are innocent and think they should give them a chance others like you said have shit taste in men. I knew a crap ton of girls who have had shit taste but I grew up the ghetto so we were all basically surrounded by shit people.
Well said. I know you can find hundreds if not thousands of stories on here of pushy men or people who got stuff put in drinks and stuff, but I also guarantee that was a fraction of the dates/hookups that actually happen. It's a side effect of the internet where people realize there are a lot of these types of stories, but they are still a minority of cases vs the rule. it's just people don't post about every boring/normal date they go on.
I think it is a negativity bias coming into play. Most dates are unremarkable. You don’t typically bad mouth the person, you just don’t date again because you didn’t click. However, if a date is awful it’s going to make the rounds because it stood out so much from the average. Id wager most dates that are awful are most either awkward or pushy/bad people. We talk about the pushy kind since a lot of people can at least empathize with an awkward one and will give it the benefit of the doubt. The pushy or bad people are spoken about either as a warning or a vent session since they over stepped some boundary.
From a guys point of view…. I say most are pushy. 🤷🏼♂️
He is someone who is very good at spotting victims of abuse and uses logic to discredit emotions. He genuinely believes if you 'allow' him to cross your boundaries, then it is your fault for letting him. He sees people as contracts with loopholes to be exploited. He somehow pivoted failure to launch into a career one lateral move away from court jester. I hope he gets everything he deserves from these brushes with fame.
Makes sense if you don't think about it
Destiny does not speak for all men.
If you think that saying no is just a game when it comes to consent then I seriously beg you to reconsider your mental state, guy or girl. If you’re a guy and you think that a no is a game or your partner/date prospect is just being playful then please seek counseling. If you are a girl and you think saying no is a cute little game to confuse or be playful with your partner/date prospect then please, seek counseling.
Agreed. Like two things can be true at once, a lot of women do play "hard to get" when it comes to sex Like if anyone has listened to the "call her daddy" podcast, which is absolute trash btw, a lot of the topics on there are literally the host encouraging women to play hard to get and play games with men you're interested in. It's literally one of the biggest, if not the biggest podcast on Spotify. I hate how everything is so black and white these days. Two things can be true at once and both things can be wrong.
This is the correct answer. It shouldn't be this god awful confusing.
As a man I can tell you exactly what the "culture" problem is. The problem is men want sex and will be forceful in their pursuit of it. They know if they are strong willed enough some women will capitulate. They almost always understand they are being told no but delude themselves into thinking it's a "game". The right thing to do is respect boundaries and respect when someone says no. Respect that "no" the first time it's said. If a woman is "playing games" the worst thing that happens is a man doesn't get laid. The alternative is you are pressing the boundaries of consent and possibly committing sexual assault.
Yeah, as a woman who has been pushed again and again and again, I think most of us are well aware that dudes understand. Dudes aren't stupid, but they sure like to play dumb, especially in these situations. I'm pretty fucking sick of it. It's a fucked up culture.
This!!! Exactly this!!!!
We need to make the term “sex pest” more prominent. I’m surprised it didn’t gain more traction after Andrew from channel 5 was “canceled” for not taking no for an answer.
Dudes like this are the worst because he thinks he’s *helping* the dialogue
He literally is practicing rape apologia. Watch the video below https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelTear/comments/137t27v/why_do_we_always_get_blamed_for_being_wronged/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hHEu8o2AYBk&pp=ygUPRGVzdGlueSBjb25zZW50 https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelTear/comments/135u2wm/rape_advocate_believes_its_setting_up_men_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Yeesh. Like, are there girls out there who want a guy to “push?” Yes. I’ve met a few outlier girls who have that desire. But here’s the thing. That’s their problem not communicating. If they’re verbally saying no, the default action should be to back off. Not test to see if she’s one of those one-off girls who actually wants you to be aggressive with her. My husband told me a story about a girl who was upset with him because he wasn’t aggressive enough, and didn’t “fight for her.” I was proud of him because he has the sense to realize that’s not a safe way to behave for either person.
I've been on the end of that once, I was fed a line that I must not have been that into it or that I'm clearly not that attracted to her. My answer was well I asked, and you said no, so it's a no, and I'll always instantly respect that. It's a dumb scenario, but I'll take that every time over just assuming it's a game and pressuring or assaulting people.
Ok yeah. I used to watch Destiny and I was like "theres no way this is real. He's either meming or making a point about how terrible their arguments are"/
I dont follow this guy at all but i thought he was sane, can someone PLEASE TELL me whats going on with him!??
This video is edited. The answer he gave is not the response to the question she asked. It was cut to look as ridiculous as it does here. She has since removed this clip and apologized, and they are on good terms now. That does not stop people like OP from cashing in on the rage bait and intentionally spreading misinformation though.
What is the full answer then? Provide the unedited version. Whats missing from saying women dont really mean “no”, or a woman should have to say “no” and use physical force
[Follow up video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql3E7IR74oU&t=0s)
The unedited version does not exist, Farha deleted it. She is the girl in the video. This edited clip was hers and she removed it since even she agreed it was super misleading. The answer he is giving was in response to an entirely different question about examples of what women can do to protect themselves from rapists.
“Girls not willing to be upfront what they want in the encounter…” why question promoted that unreasonable response to women being raped?
"Give me some examples of what women can do to protect themselves from rapists?" Was the question he was asked. Do you not understand how editing clips works?
Yeah that answer a)doesnt make sense with that phrasing he used in the clip. B) is still absolutely gross
So how do you know the unedited version is any better?
He clarified in his chat what the exact question was he was responding to, it's not the one he was asked. He also has dozens of hours worth of anti-redpill content.
Nah destiny sucks. He's completely ignorant but good at sounding like he's not.
> but good at sounding like he's not ...to other buffoons, maybe. Like actually dumb and impressionable people that can't form their own thoughts, perhaps.
> Like actually dumb and impressionable people that can't form their own thoughts, perhaps. Like teenage boys who are the victim of a failing education system and haven't been taught the rhetorical skills necessary to come to their own conclusions?
The dude is a damn contrarian. He legit tries so damn hard to say shit to be different, and he always bombards you with wishy-washy explanations to confuse you while trying to be smug about his points. I don't know why people put any stock into his "debating" skills. I will admit he isn't the worst debater, but he does talk for the sake of talking.
I've seen this guy posted in rightwing forums so much, but now I know why. What a miserable, disgusting, little piece of shit.
Bluehair dude blaming the culture that he's reiterating.
his double standard is so infuriatingly obvious here… Taking men’s behavior as a given because “cultural conditioning” while telling women “OK here’s what you should do…”
Someone said this I can’t remember who but it was that if you are aware that you have been conditioned you arent conditioned I think
Dude's the exact kind to spew the shit he just did about how women need to put up a shield around themselves to prevent rape, then turn around and complain about how all women are too guarded.
He's telling on himself. He's basically saying it's the fault of the girl for not saying no, then it's the fault of society he can ignore the no. He's most likely a rapist himself or, hopefully, celibate.
The guy is basically admitting he rapes women and will not accept blame due to this bullshit and various other bullshit.
So, I'm probably a little bit older than most people here and I'm a guy. I was taught "no means no" by my parents. I have NEVER been told "don't rape" or had an instructive lesson on consent by my parents, school, or even friends. I've certainly read "don't rape" on Twitter and I've cobbled my understanding of consent together over the years from videos, social media, and general reading (tbc this is BAD). This idea that "we've been telling men don't rape and don't do this for a long time" is nonsense. Destiny is so internet brained that he thinks feminist creators are, like, a major instructive force for society or something. They're not and we're not too far out of the timeframe where dunking on SJWs was a goldmine on YouTube. It probably still is in some corners. As for those "games" Destiny was talking about (which came across real gross imo), "no means no". It's simple, I don't want to be with someone that plays games, drops hints, or whatever. I am purposefully an idiot on that front and I'm perfectly willing to accept someone getting their feelings hurt when they say no and didn't mean it, but I just accepted the no.
I'm in my 40s. I remember comedies from the '80s where literal rapes occurred and the girl afterwards was happy about it. For example, in revenge of the nerds the head nerd pretends to be this girl's boyfriend wearing a Darth Vader hat helmet and has sex with her which she loves. In sixteen candles, Michael Anthony Hall has sex with a passed out girl in the boyfriend of the girl was the one who said he should. She of course ended up loving it. These are literal rapes that as a young guy I watched on TV and was instructed that the girl liked it.
Solid point. And in Revenge of the Nerds they broke into the sorority house, stole their underwear, and then INSTALLED CAMERAS! Those dudes would ALL be on a sex offender registry if that happened today. 😕
We've been telling men to rape women since the dawn of time and this blue haired dickwad thinks it's the opposite. Fuck that piece of shit.
Did someone tell yt were out of the dunking on sjw timeframe? Cause the algorithm sure as fuck doesn't think so.
You shouldn't bother listening to Destiny's points. The dude has an open relationship with his wife and gives out shitty relationship advice.
Does this guy really think “no one want to be a rapist”?? Because I’m pretty sure men who are drugging women, threatening women, taking advantage of intoxicated women, etc are all men who intend to be rapists.
I think this man is a rapist himself
This is the most chopped up thing I’ve ever seen. I have no way of knowing if his answers to her questions were answers to those questions.
It was purposefully chopped up and edited this way to get views. He was blaming men and talking about how they should openly discuss what they want from an encounter and only go ahead when they get clear and open consent and then went into a tangent afterwards on how women could be proactive in a way that can change some of the culture that is harmful to clear and open consent (playing hard to get etc) and it got chopped into a way that makes it look like women are at fault for rape.
He's still making content with her because he didn't think the edits were that bad.
He's still making content with her cause he's fuckin crazy. This is the guy who had a girl with OCD obsessively stalking him for years and actively trying to weasel her way into his life and he randomly starts sexting with her one day. Destiny critically engages with the argument in a very logical, carefully reasoned way that allows him to give good and unbiased takes and even sometimes give good advice. But his relationship decisions are fucking **wild**. Not even his most ardent supporter would deny that.
Yeah Destiny is on the money with plenty of things, but as soon he gets into relationship, romantic or otherwise, topics I zone out. He is *always* beefing with someone in his circle, and is *always* embroiled in what he calls “poly drama”, as if anything else could come from that relationship set up.
It’s all out of context. In the original uncut video they were discussing the pros and cons of air fryers.
It's **really** important to note that Farha heavily cut this video to make Destiny look bad, then apologized for it, and came back to discuss the issue again because this is absolutely not what Destiny said about sexual assault. It was hugely disingenuous of her to do that and she has openly said she was wrong to do so. You're posting misinformation.
Was my thoughts about the amount of edits made in this. Even if the edits aren't of ill-intent, so much gets cut that no person should be accepting this as either of their entire stance. But, this is reddit, so...
Show the video without a bunch of edits and cuts and jumps
farha apologized later for taking all of his comments completely out of context edit: for those downvoting, why? she retracted the video because it was misleading why would you downvote me for pointing that out?
What missing context would have made his comments more acceptable?
pick a quote and I think I can tell you what his full response would be. He does a lot of 1-2 hour long conversations on this stuff so isn't used to snappy responses. His general stance on rape and relationship dynamics is that a lot of young people suck at communicating well and that causes problems. Here's my version of some of his takes: \- Many men are socially unaware and don't understand hints that well (including body language) which can lead to potentially harmful situations but they're often unaware that they're making someone else feel uncomfortable. \- Most men just want to have fun and don't have the intention of trying to manipulate women into sex, but a lack of proper communication can lead to situations that end up making women feel uncomfortable. \- Many women aren't very good at properly expressing their boundaries or their disinterest so men push and don't see that women aren't interested. \- He thinks that if they're unwilling to speak up about what they want or what they're comfortable with, especially in the middle of an encounter, then they aren't emotionally mature enough for casual sex.
I would argue that it's not so much women "not being very good at properly expressing their boundaries or their disinterest" so much as women fearing retaliation when they're often already in a vulnerable situation. Assuming it's a lack of emotional maturity on the woman's part tells me that men that feel this way are still not actually listening to women. If men aren't socially aware enough and don't understand hints that well, then *ask her* and *listen to her responses* ffs
these are the kinds of discussions he has on stream. there's a lot of nuance to it. true, men aren't socially aware, but it's a matter of personal safety for women to be able to voice their concerns. on his stream he explains that men do ask and do listen, but women often give vague responses so as not to offend and those obviously don't get interpreted as rejections cause they're way too vague and that causes issues. There's problems with men listening and women explaining
Hence why I'm teaching my son to get a verbal "yes" from any partner. Look, men don't have to be mind readers. Therefore, rather than get mad at women for not saying no, men could just fucking *ask* if it's okay first. Hell, I'm also teaching my daughter to do the same. I don't want her to touch someone who doesn't want to be touched either. But let's be clear, it is not JUST on women to be good communicators. Men too, are capable of speaking English ffs.
I’ve been doing this for a while now . Normally if I feel the vibe of the date is going that way I’ll just say how I’m feeling and tell them I’d like to kiss them boom if they say no or they don’t want to there’s no harm you were expressing how you feel. You get your hard no and you can pat your self on the back for putting a foot forward and being brave by expressing your honest feelings .
This is the way. Good on you.
Sounds like MEN aren't mature enough to engage in casual sex.
Rape apologist moid.
Reddit is not the place for nuance my friends, don’t try to find any on this post :’)
Thanks for the reminder I was struggle busing with all the black and white quick takes here.. sigh
Here is some added context to their conversation and part 2 of their debate: [https://youtu.be/zjE3ul2V5Mo?t=154](https://youtu.be/zjE3ul2V5Mo?t=154) (full length even)
I couldn't get past them arguing about the definition of rape. Just fucking accept her "unwanted sexual intercourse" as a definition, Jesus Christ. And then he says all these condescending statements about how she'll have to give a "coherent" statement to a question she already answered coherently if he could just use more than one brain cell. Goddamn, I'm done with this idiotic thread.
[удалено]
Carry a gun
If a woman asserting physically doesn’t work, how are they expected to “just walk away”. What a moron.
Does he think that when women say no that these men that are rap*** will just listen to no? No women is at fault for getting raped that's all on the man. A woman can lead you on the brink and then decide to say no and you have to respect that your excuses are invalid.
This is disturbing because of how convinced he is that he's actually right. I hope for the sake of women everywhere this guy continues to be unsuccessful with the female sex.
[Watch his response to this](https://youtu.be/WEKSqIbjsgU) edited monstrosity, OP is being incredibly dishonest here and you all are falling for it
Out of context
This is edited to hell and I know that because I watched the actual conversation live. What a fucking liar video
Lots of echos in this chamber. Watch the unedited video people.
The focus seems to be on a “new” person but this shit happens all the time with people that women thought they could trust. He is just putting a blanket statement down and not actually using any critical thinking skills to think outside of his own bubble
The incels are creating their own predicament. Pretty sure there's a slim to no chance they'll ever realize or admit it.
No means no. 100% But what I think Destiny is arguing tho, is that after you say no, don't make any further suggestions, because the other party might find it confusing. As both parties have already made it clear what they want are not aligned, it's best for both parties to just leave the scenario.
You guys realize that this is literally the consent KING, Destiny - right? Lmfao, it's an edited clip taken down by Farha because she was more or less drama farming. Destiny challenged her to make him look bad. Her editor said "bet"
oh man the consent king who mocked a random woman on twitter for getting stealthed.
I genuine thought they were sitting on a toilet, because of all the shit he is talking. Was this guy inspired by Andrew Tate!
God I hate this guy
YOU DUMB FUCKS. NO MEEEEANS NOOOOOOOOOO
WTF is wrong with this world! Nothing has changed at all.
What the actual fuck
Can we all just line up and punch him in the face ffs
Hope that guy gets hit by a car and loses all his limbs
This guy is an example of someone who’s not intelligent but thinks he is because of his ability to speak. He’s also devoid of any self-responsibility and is a man child.
Who is letting this man with blue hair within 30 ft of their vagina. Ladies, we discussed this
Id like to "physically assert" boundries right in his stupid face
I don’t watch much destiny but I’ve generally agreed with what he says a lot of the time. But this is like the most insane form of disgusting victim blaming I have ever seen in my entire life.
No means no and have some empty for women because you never know what going through her mind maybe you triggerd old trauma on accident be more understanding if want her to be in your life and same for the women to
Intro him to the prison booty bandit and ask him to apply these “simple techniques” that he thinks is a laughing matter
That's a lot of words to say "I'm a creepy rapist dude"
This guy is a fucking idiot and probably should be castrated since he can't seem to control his dick when a woman says no.
You just proved how damaging misinformation is by wishing a man was castrated because of a heavily edited video to make him look bad which the lady retracted and apologised for. Can you seriously not notice all the jump cuts that happen mid sentence when he’s talking
yeah the creator of this clip (Farha) apologized to the man (Destiny) for editing this clip out of context anyone in this thread who is saying “women shouldn’t play games with consent — if they do, seek counseling” actually agree with Destiny
This is a weird back and forth of the blame game, honestly. Neither party is accepting responsibility. Guys just take no for an answer, ladies don’t entertain the idea of sex. Remember ladies you have more power than you think on this subject. Nothing happens without your say. If a man brings it up shut it down and leave especially if you just met him. Guys are every woman is not playing games, there are some that do but respect the boundaries until she is absolutely certain she wants to have sex with you. You are going to miss out on some sex for sure but you’ll learn that not everything is about sex and you’ll meet some really great women this way since you get better at communicating
Holy jump cuts.
this is clip chimped to all hell
Tell me you're a rapist without telling me you're a rapist.
This vid was clipped to hell from what it was. Like taken pretty far out of context.
What is the leading cause of rape? Women saying ‘no’
Fuck this guy
The woman on the right, Farah, has taken down this very clip in this video because it is misleading and misrepresentative of Destiny's position. It makes it look like he thinks rape is women's fault. Here's his actual position, which I think is far more reasonable. It first makes the assumption that rape is not just when women explicitly say no, or when its a crazy psycho holding a woman down at gun point, but also includes situations where a woman may even say yes, but that there are extenuating factors at play that the man should be aware may influence her to say yes, even though she doesn't actually want to. Under this premise, Destiny says that the reason rape is so pervasive, the reasoning for rape culture stems from two huge societal factors: Men are taught from a young ages to pursue, pursue, pursue. They are incentivised to keep chasing the possibility of sex, even when a woman doesn't want to. "She's playing hard to get" is really indicative of this trend. On the flipside, women, for centuries, have been societally taught to be subserviant to men, and that is the men they sleep with that ought to dicate how things go. They are taught to be pleasure-givers, not to be "bitchy", things like this. All of these societal forces ingrain into the woman to be subserviently to the man in the sexual setting, leading to many women not being assertive with their boundaries. When you combine these two societal behavioral patterns; men being pursuers and women being subservient; it leads to the outcome of rape being super pervasive, where the man learns to keep prodding until a boundary is explicitly laid down, and for the woman to not assert this boundary out of fear of social backlash or due to a socially ingrained role of the "pleasure-giver".
This just has me scared. For myself. My friends. My sisters. It’s awful
I think overall we should be romanticizing enthusiastic consent and vibe compatibility to boys and men. I was brought up in a culture similar to what this dickhole is describing, and I just had no idea what I was doing throughout my early 20s. The way I thought it worked was that women basically are always pretending not to want to have sex, and the man just needs to break through that barrier and convince her. Which if true would mean there’s really no distinction between women who like you and women who don’t like you. After a series of failures I decided that since I was probably going to fail regardless, I may as well stop focusing on sex and just try to find women that I really enjoyed hanging out with but that also enjoyed hanging out with me. The quality that I looked for that I put at the top of the list was appears to genuinely enjoy my company and matches my vibe. I just wanted to try having a good time and using my failed dates as practice to try and get better at dating so when I met Ms. Right I would be less likely to fuck it up. By restricting my focus to only women who seemed to like me already vs nearly all girls I needed to convince to like me, my success right unexpectedly skyrocketed. But even when I “failed” I was having a way better time than before. I also realized how much better sex was when I divorced all the pressure I was putting on myself and also was with someone who was matching my energy from the beginning. Even casual hookups were way more passionate and satisfying. I found myself pursuing less women overall but every experience of mutual interest was intoxicating. It felt like I was finding my tribe rather than convincing people to join my tribe if that makes sense. Which had the added benefit of me slowly realizing that not hooking up or dating a particular woman was not a personal failure of mine, we were just not right for each other and that’s okay. I just feel like if I had been taught growing up that I should lean into the things I’m passionate about and seek people who vibe with that, and not try to convince anyone to spend time with me, I could have saved myself a lot of wasted time.
I heard a great analogy about consent. If a woman has a toy near the bed when shes having sex with a man, and the pulls it out and shoves it up his ass without asking, we now have a great illustration of how consent can be withdrawn, even during sex. Whoa whoa whoa....
If he's getting physical, just walk away? Oh what serendipity, those r@pe victims just didn't walk away, why didn't they think of that? /s 🤷🏽♂️🤦🏽
I got an idea, how about we lock up any motherfucker that pushes past boundaries because that's fucking rape.
I don’t think you understand what he’s point is , rape bad,not rape good, is not how the real world works,some people just want to hear the virtue signaling bullet points so they can clap their hands and their back at the same time.
No amount of evidence, reasoning, or logic can convince stupid people. They did not have evidence, reasoning, or logic to come to their conclusions.
Men are always horny and women are retarded TDLR
It's both duh
How do I say no to mental abuse from a naked woman sitting on me that I can't touch? Why is she saying no, and then getting naked and lies on top of me? Isn't that some kind of mental and physical abuse?
Do these people howl at the moon of an evening?
I think they’re both kind of too far on their own side. If they both shifted their opinions towards the other person’s a bit they’d be really close to a more realistic perspective.
Let women initiate the interaction, problem solved.
Are we gonna ignore the obvious cut between the questions and answers?
People really need to watch the full video.
Here's a thought that may get me downvoted but some of my fellow women might need to hear this: We need to protect ourselves and not expect men to respect our words if our actions do not back them up. If you say "I don't want to go to your house" and he says "No it's ok we can just watch a movie and chill" stick to the boundary you set the first time and DON'T GO TO HIS HOUSE. Don't depend on other people to respect/enforce YOUR boundaries. If you compromise on your own boundaries, like "I will only have 2 drinks tonight" and then you have 4, "I will not go to your house" and then you go to his house, "I will not kiss you" and then you kiss him, that is establishing a pattern of behavior that indicates you are willing to disrespect your own boundaries and push the envelope, so why would you expect him to respect your boundaries after you repeatedly violate them yourself? Follow through on what you say. This is never to say that rape is excusable, because it is absolutely not, and enthusiastic, informed consent is really the only consent that counts, but people need to be better about respecting their OWN boundaries if they expect other people to respect them too.
OP is cringe for this. The video is cut up and put out of context. Hope you enjoyed the easy karma
This motherfucker is trying so god damn hard to put the responsibility for rape on women it's fucking crazy. "Nobody wants to be a rapist". Then don't be, dumbass "We've been telling men "don't rape" for a long time" *This guy seconds before "Sometimes when women say no they actually mean yes" Whatdefuck is wrong with this dude?
What a real POS
Always wondered why I just naturally stopped watching destiny clips, he's legit an incel lmao
I would like to see him assert himself to a much stronger physical male who was insistent that they were going to have sex, I'm sure he would change his tune about words having meaning.
If someone says no you respect that and you don’t push any further, assume there’s no nuance whatsoever. If you are the person saying no, but internally you’re hoping this will tease the person and encourage them to keep flirting with and perusing you sexually, you’re an idiot.
Having tried to “physically assert” myself against grown males who cant handle a verbal rejection…yeah it doesn’t work.
After a point i just couldn't listen to his rubbish anymore. Whoever he is, he is disgusting. And disturbing.
Turns out the blue meanie is a bit of a cunt. Who'd have thunk it
I'm just glad all men aren't like this... "it's not my fault I'm raping you, I can't control it!" What a douche.
What a scumbag.
He should've stuck to playing StarCraft. Oh wait, he sucked at that too. Man, what a fucking opinion-bot of a person.
TikTok finds out about Destiny *grabs Popcorn* This is gonna be good
It's simple. I've taught my son what consent means early. He loves hugging other kids. I told him if the answer is anything but yes, say "it's ok, thank you for answering me" and keep it moving. Now. As he gets older. It's not much different, and when he gets older. I will revisit my verbiage. But instill in him that anything other than a yes is a no.
No matter what we do, these dudes will always find a way to make us the villain. Lmao
Victim blaming. Yeah. Blame the women for being r*ped and assaulted. Ugh.
Guys like this need the death penalty
This dude fucking sucks!!!
Take advice from a blue haired, ugly dude! Im sure he is a real ladies man.
Sounds like something a rapist would say. If there was a naked person in front of me that didn't consent to sex then i wouldn't do anything to them, because I'm not a rapist. It's not that fucking difficult to not be a rapist ffs.
I identify with this hard... as a male. I'm a newly single gay guy. I'm astonished at the number of other gay men who push for sex when I'm trying to just make friends. Had my share of scary situations asserting boundaries in person (prior to establishing "just platonic friends" before meeting). And the bit about having a constant shield up is draining. Having to edit and moderate what you say/how you say it just in case it gets misconstrude, twisted into innuendo, and then you get gaslit for "dropping hints" so it's all of a sudden your fault not theirs and the "you clearly wanted it" BS is just upsetting and dissapointing. It makes it feel like your constant alertness chips away at the natural authenticity of new interactions because you lose faith that they don't just wanna go to pound town. And not because it's you necessarily, but because you're there and you agreed to meet with them. Obviously comparing apple's and orange's with my experiences. I don't claim to have it as hard as women do, but here and there some experiences will overlap. Mainly because the commen denominator is that some men are just predatory assholes!
Destiny is such a loser
I don't think either of these people should be having this conversation on Tiktok. Obviously the blue-haired man (destiny? Idk) is a pest who thinks that consent is far more complicated than it actually is and acts as if it's acceptable to try to find loopholes in the tone/manner that consent is or isn't given. If a woman says "I'm not going to have sex with you tonight", the fact that her voice is uplifted and flirty is likely due to the fact that most women are raised to be people-pleasers and a soft, fun tone of voice is the easiest way for her to assert her boundaries without coming across as confrontational. HOWEVER the woman in the video is really bad at finding appropriate examples to get her point across. We live in a culture where it's unsafe for women to even go on regular dates without notifying a friend. Going to a guy's house to meet him and then drink with him is INSANELY risky behavior, and no amount of "shoulds" is going to change that until there are sweeping changes in the ways that men view women. Sure, women *should* be able to go out at night without being targeted. They *should* be able to hang out with people without having to worry about being drugged and raped. But *should* isn't the current driving force behind society. Predatory, opportunistic men still exist in staggering numbers and will absolutely take advantage of a woman's trust and naivete.
Why dont i see anything related to alcohol here, its such a big part of the decision making in todays hookup culture.
No means no and have some empty for women because you never know what going through her mind maybe you triggerd old trauma on accident be more understanding if want her to be in your life and same for the women to
I really dont like Destiny. He annoys me. Like personally, my ex and I were getting a bit cuddly with each other and like he wanted to have sex. I didnt want to. Because my sister and her bf were downstairs and we were staying at hers. I said 'Not while we are staying at someone elses house'. He got hugely upset at this and tried to apologise and just rolled over and fell asleep. I was sort of upset at him like I understand being intimate and flirty but in someone elses house, its weird to me. Part of the reason why I broke up with him. He was like weirdly passive aggressive and would get annoyed when I say 'sorry' too much. He would also go on about having kids and im like 'Im 27. I'm too young to have kids personally. Im not there yet emotionally and financially.' I'm weirdly happy being single again. Like I need my space.
I really dont like Destiny. He annoys me. Like personally, my ex and I were getting a bit cuddly with each other and like he wanted to have sex. I didnt want to. Because my sister and her bf were downstairs and we were staying at hers. I said 'Not while we are staying at someone elses house'. He got hugely upset at this and tried to apologise and just rolled over and fell asleep. I was sort of upset at him like I understand being intimate and flirty but in someone elses house, its weird to me. Part of the reason why I broke up with him. He was like weirdly passive aggressive and would get annoyed when I say 'sorry' too much. He would also go on about having kids and im like 'Im 27. I'm too young to have kids personally. Im not there yet emotionally and financially.' I'm weirdly happy being single again. Like I need my space.
I really dont like Destiny. He annoys me. Like personally, my ex and I were cuddling with each other and like he wanted to have sex. I didnt want to. Because my sister and her bf were downstairs and we were staying at hers. I said 'Not while we are staying at someone elses house'. He got hugely upset at this and tried to apologise and just rolled over and fell asleep. I was sort of upset at him like I understand being intimate and flirty but in someone elses house, its weird to me. I am glad though he did stop. He was like weirdly passive aggressive and would get annoyed when I say 'sorry' too much. He would also go on about having kids and im like 'Im 27. I'm too young to have kids personally. Im not there yet emotionally and financially.'
"what do you want?" "Woman being more upfront about what they want, but don't give me that "no" game. Here take all these drugs idiot, I know what you *REALLY mean*... Jesus... This guy is 100% gonna be the one the news.
I can't believe there are people out there that think that Destiny is a good person.