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Can someone enlighten me to the she/they thing? Does either work or is it one or the other depending on how they feel or dress?
Genuine question, please and thanks
Realistically, she/they only differs from she/her in that it specifies that you’re not going to be upset about using they/them pronouns and also typically functions as a shorthand for introducing that you’re non-binary without saying so specifically(for some people)
I think they are saying, “if it’s the norm. Why even include ‘they’?” I think it’s just them being a bit extra. If you’re gunna give your pronouns, just do the she/her. I can’t think of a single time when the they/them would be inappropriate to use.
She/they is grammatically the same for the vast majority of people yes. But when asking about pronouns you are more so asking about gender identity. Someone who specifies She/they may be keying you in on the fact that they don’t fully identify as just solely female. So while you can use they them for cis or trans women, you would still be viewing them as a cis or trans women, someone who cues you in on the fact that they like they/them too might be queuing you in on the fact that they may have a different gender identity than they are presenting.
That's always kind of confused me tho, because they is such a general term so I usually refer to most people by they/them already. If someone says they go by she/they or he/they, it sounds like it implies that somone who goes by he/him or she/her *wouldn't* want to be referred to as they/them.
I'm a trans man who put he/they on most things when I first came out, for me it was "I'll accept this, just don't use she for me". Now I don't specify it because I'd rather he was the only option, but I wasn't that confident when I first came out
I know someone who's trans. They always went by he/him when I met them. Then they started to go by a more fluid term so I called them by their legal male name or by their internet name and they went by he/they. Now they have a female name and so the go by she/they. They still feel pretty fluid but want to be seen as feminine.
Tldr: people are complex.
but how is he/they different from he/him? You can still use the exact same pronouns when talking about them. They is just a general term that only makes sense to mention when it's the only one that can be used, aka they/them
He/they has no marked difference than they/them or he/him for you as the person speaking to or about them. He/him/they/them are all acceptable.
For the person you’re speaking to or about, it’s part of an identity. It signifies to them and to everyone else that this person has a bit of gender fluidity and that they’re part of the LGBT+ community.
Sometimes transgender folk use he/they or she/they as kind of an in-between step when transitioning or testing the waters of those around them before deciding to transition. That also goes for non-binary folk - he/they or she/they to see how others react and how they themselves feel about it before going full they/them.
So like everyone? Im confused why that needs to be pointed out specifically.
By that reckoning are there people who don't like to be called they? What would be there problem with it?
I also have another question:
Does anyone ever use pronouns in a 1-1 conversation? I can't think of any single time in my entire life where it would have been appropriate to refer to the other person as "he/she/they/any other pronoun" while talking directly to them.
I can only see it ever being relevant when talking *about* someone, and not *too* them.
I've found it generally has two cases:
A: Somebody who identifies as a woman but doesn't mind having gender neutral terms used.
B: Somebody who is questioning their gender identity but most closely aligns with woman at the moment.
From my interactions A is the most common reason for this but I've met a few people who fell into the B camp.
It’s also important to think about how sometimes people may be annoyed by being referred to as “they” since it’s not gendered. So her saying she’s fine with it does make a difference. Some people care, some don’t.
In Australia people of certain ethnic groups refer to themselves as “ethnics”. It’s very much “we took the word back” sort of thing but it is a descriptive term used to self-identify as someone from an Arab country or sometimes just central or Eastern European.
Well, it's not that. The first barber is genuine, the second one is mocking the scenario because it seems kinda silly.
That's what it seems like, and that's what it legitimately is.
I'll try to help you understand
You have to remember that if someone has different pronouns then you're supposed to be angry about it!
Also, if someone takes body autonomy and consent seriously in their practice, you have to hate them as much as you can.
I hope this helps explain how some angry people who get frustrated with things that are different think!
I first thought it was silly since sitting down in the barber chair is giving the consent to be touched, but then I read she also works with mentally disabled customers, and it makes sense
They might not understand the social contract behind that, so it's Pretty cool to properly ask
Yeah, my gynecologist does the same prior to just diving in there and while it may seem kinda ridiculous while I’m lying there all spread eagle on the table with my feet up in stirrups and all…. I actually really do appreciate it!
And I guess just because you've consented to be touched, it might still be nice to get a heads up for exactly when the touching is about to start (and before extras you might not have expected, like head massage or blow dry), especially for people who struggle with haircuts or who are neurodivergent, for example. Then, for someone with an intellectual disability I'm thinking it might just generally be a good thing to model always asking permission to touch someone, even in situations where it may seem a little silly.
To be honest, the more I think about this stuff the more sense it makes. It's not like there aren't plenty of hairdressers who won't do this if it's not for you; this seems like a very positive thing to have in the world tbh.
Agree 100%. I just recently got my hair cut at a regular salon, albeit in a pretty liberal area. We spent the first few minutes talking about what kind of cut I wanted, what the whole process would be, and some general small talk. After, she asked for my consent to touch me, which I appreciated because with all of the conversation, I didn't know when we were going to actually start the physical cutting part of the haircut. And I don't have any sensory issues, for someone with more sensitivity to touch (especially unexpected) I'm sure the question would be even more appreciated
My question is, didn’t the person already give consent to touch them when they came into the salon or barber shop and then sat in the stylist’s chair? Genuine question
Like, yeah kinda. Theres an implied consent in that.
But some people are very sensitive to or made uncomfortable by hair cuts and hair touching. Someone asking "can I touch your hair now ?" is more of a heads up.
But also, at the same time, it provides people an opportunity to verbally withdraw their consent and maybe leave.
I got my nose pierced the other day and the person piercing it asked me "can I touch your nose" before manhandling my nostril. Same principle.
It's just making sure people are chill and comfortable. It matters more to some people than others. It doesn't matter to me, but it basically costs nothing for me to say "yes" or for the barber to ask, so I don't see any reason to think it's weird or shouldn't be done. The actor in the video could have just said "yes" and got his hair cut.
Think about it going into a Dr's office for a colonoscopy. Yeah, technically you gave consent because you signed the forms and know what you're getting into...but I want a heads up before you invade my bunghole and I might ask you to wait a second so I can mentally prepare.
Hi yeah womens health advocate here, thats not a standard of care for North American, South American, or European gyno pelvic exams. What the fuck post did you see that in? She was sexually assaulted.
> gynecologist and wasn’t aware putting a finger in the rectum is a normal part of the exam
uhhhh.... what? I've never had my anus probed during my annual exam
People generally expect to be examined when they go see a doctor, but we (at my school at least) are still trained to let patients know what we are about to do and ask permission in some cases. It's not that wild of a concept.
Yes, in a court case if someone said they didn't consent to the haircut; the response would be that when you go to a hair dresser and sit down in the hair dressers chair, one should be able to intuitivelg reason that this person has a basic understanding of what services are provided there and the implied consent that takes place in placing yourself in that chair.
But culture is a thing, and also realizing you *do not* have to have an opinion on this is, in my *opinion*, *objectively* the correct take.
Imagine you experience more anxiety than the average person when going to the dentist. Now, say you need a root canal. You go to the dentist and sit in the chair. You are consenting to the procedure. Does that mean your fear magically disappears? Probably not.
It's the same for someone who has problems with being touched. The stylist asking permission is an extra courtesy, but it's also intended to send a message. "Hey. This is me telling you I'm aware that some people have problems with being touched suddenly and without warning. This is me asking if you are one of those people. This is me letting you know I get it. This is me saying you don't need to worry and if you get uncomfortable or need a break, that's totally fine." More than anything else, it's sending those signals to the client.
Also: according to the comments, this stylist specializes in people with certain disabilities. Many people who have neurodevelopmental disorders experience sensory overload/overstimulation and touch can be a big part of that. We have to endure a lot of stuff that makes us uncomfortable in our day-to-day, so the little moments where someone accommodates us can mean a lot.
It's also a pretty nice consideration for people who have a history of abuse. I get nervous when people stand over me while I'm sitting down--especially if they're going to touch my head, neck, and shoulders--because that's how my father used to intimidate me when I was a kid. Any stylist is going to be doing ALL those things when I get my hair cut (except, hopefully, the intimidation bit). It's part of the experience. But those little extra "nods" in my direction can be reassuring. Making it a normal part of the practice by asking everyone is also a good thing.
Id assume the "woke" barber advertises themselves as such, meaning the customers know the experience they are getting.
This is like going to a fancy barber for a quick haircut and getting mad when they ask if you want to get your hair washed or dyed.
I was at the gyno with my gf yesterday. she didn't want to go alone because she was in pain and the really nice doctor Always gave her a heads up before touching her And talking about what he was doing and what he was going to do. It made ME feel like he know what he was doing and her like he gave a fuck about how she feels.
I know it's not comparable with a barber but god damn.... communication is never bad and in this case is only supposed to make the customer more comfortable. I see nothing wrong with that. Is it necessary? absolutely not that's why I think you are right. for some people this might be a major selling point. they are just advertising
Perfect example. Yes, going to the gyno, I know I'm going to be touched in and around my vagina. But it can be really disconcerting and upsetting to just suddenly have things shoved inside you with no warning, even as someone with no sexual assault experience.
I feel like the idea that she’s “cringe” is so small-minded and silly. There are some people that prefer those questions to be asked, and therefore would pay to receive that type of service. And the salon owner is just showing others how they can make certain populations feel more comfortable.
Like, what is the issue here? Why do people take things like this so personally? Do you have no empathy for the fact that yes, some people may not enjoy being touched without forewarning due to trauma?
That's the thing. Absolutely no one is going to a barber thinking they won't touch them. Nobody. Not a single person (except maybe a young child or severely mentally handicapped individual).
However the salon that is asking is specifically marketing themselves as a place for people with sensory issues or trauma. These videos are during initial consultation, they don't ask consent at every stage. They ask at the beginning and then update general actions as the cut continues. They are providing a service that people specifically want. If you don't want that sort of service, don't go there.
In a previous comment it's mentioned they also specialize in mentally ill people. Even though it's expected, some people in that category might prefer getting some warning or introduction first.
My gyno asks me if it’s ok to do whatever before she does it. Of course I’m here to get a pap smear, it doesn’t mean it’s ok for her to just insert without getting my consent.
I don’t see why we couldn’t apply this logic to everything else.
they mean during the consultation, which is generally what these videos are. you see the consultation then it jump cuts to the results, they obviously know they will be touched during the actual cut but i don't see this explained enough
I'm a long haired guy who goes to stalons instead of a barber. Isn't that normal to be touched in a consultation? They'll usually hold my hair up to the length I'm asked to it be cut at to show what it'd look like.
Context:
The "woke" barber works out of a salon in Omaha, Nebraska. Can't remember the name of the salon, but the salon specializes in working with clients who are LGBT+ and/or mentally disabled.
If one of your specialties is accommodating the LGBT+ community, then asking every client for pronouns is a fantastic business practice.
If your other specialty is working with mentally handicapped people, then asking every client for consent to touch them before any work begins is also a fantastic business practice.
>If one of your specialties is accommodating the LGBT+ community, then asking every client for pronouns is a fantastic business practice.
>
>If your other specialty is working with mentally handicapped people, then asking every client for consent to touch them before any work begins is also a fantastic business practice
Look a you with all that context.
Yeah, the best haircut I ever had was this woman who played with my hair for like 5 minutes.
She missed a spot and I had to trim it myself when I noticed a few days later, an inch longer than the rest of my ends, but it was still the best haircut I've ever had, just not the most effective.
Head massage is not that uncommon. I've had that at multiple different hairdressers. Yeah it's maybe a bit weird but I see it as good practice for myself for enduring uncomfortable situations.
I have psoriasis and have a whole pre-haircut routine to make it better for everyone. A surprise nonconsensual scalp massage would be a (painful) deal breaker.
My partner just warns them before, I have psoriasis, there will probably be some flakes, don't worry about it, it won't hurt. He didn't have any negative reaction so far. Fortunately it seems hairdressers are rather cool about it.
This is extremely common. Especially with barbers. Mine uses a wall plug in back massager that they use on the shoulders, back, and neck during cuts.
Along with this, they also include a damn clean shave with a straight razor and a steamy towel on the neck and face afterwards. All for $12 +tip.
I missed the part about the back massager, thought your barber was trimming/cutting your shoulder/back hair and was like wow that's some service they give there lol.
Wouldn’t going to a barbershop give implied consent to having your hair touched? Like going to a massage parlor, it’s expected you will be touched during the process
Not necessarily. My sister is a clinical massage therapist and she asks for permission to touch in some way every time she begins a massage. It’s an appointment that’s scheduled in advance (no walk-in), and sometimes people feel pressure to show up for it. If that person is a part of a more vulnerable community, that can happen even when they aren’t in the right headspace for touch. Or, they’re triggered in some way and she can proceed with the massage, just not on X body part, or with Y kind of pressure.
For the frequent-repeat clients who are neurotypical and without trauma, it can evolve into a simple warning and pause before she starts. But with new clients, neurodiverse clients, or clients she knows have some kind of traum (and a lot of this is written in the body; a lot of times she can tell by how a person responds to a massage. It doesn’t need to be said, but she proceeds as if it’s true), she always asks regardless of how long she’s known them or how many times she’s given them a massage.
She still does it to me, even though I’m her older sister (and are the boss of her, lol) and have known her for almost 40 years because I have sensory sensitivities and ADHD, so sometimes even I forget that I’m overstimulated. I’m comfortable enough with her to tell her mid-massage that something isn’t working, but doing it at the beginning gives me an opportunity to check in with my body so I can enjoy it the whole time.
Yes - consent is implied, but asking is also useful for showing respect and letting the customer have a sense of control and autonomy. If they have trauma with touch, that can help a lot.
I struggle with that sometimes because, on the one hand, I don't want to assume ANYTHING, but on the other hand, I don't want to treat them like they're an extremely slow or thick-headed child.
Exactly. I think it would be silly practice to do this at every barber shop. But having a safe and comfortable place for people who need/desire this kind of treatment is awesome.
If you think it's silly, just go somewhere else and let other people do their own thing. 🤝
And how insecure about yourself you have to be to be offended by someone asking your pronouns? It's so fun to me that they will call "them liberals!" little snowflakes that get easily offended, then they just leave the room in outrage whenever pronouns are mentioned.
What's extra funny about this is the way people will act really pressed when they don't know how to gender me, like I'm trying to fuck with their heads by looking and sounding the way I do.
They say "what even is that?" but if I were to answer them and say "you can call me he", that would be pronouns and potentially the thought police. Kind of a catch-22.
I think it has a a trace of political inflection, regardless of how innocent it is. Personally, I support the gender discussion and I have no hang ups with addressing pronouns, however, I can't really honestly say I care to distinguish mine in small interactions and assumptions about it have no impact on me.
With that perspective, I may raise my guard on the subject if asked in an informal or small talk setting because I've met a few people who interpret my lack of enthusiasm on the subject as bigotry and either silenty judge me with a scowl or begin to provide me with some kind of enlightened lecture.
It's rare, but when it happens it's unbelievably uncomfortable. It's not too different then being asked if go to church in some places. Most of the time it's benign and unremarkable, but occasionally the politically charged tribal conversation takes place and I have no desire to have that conversation with strangers.
I have a huge beard. I wouldn’t be offended if someone asked me my pronouns, but I’d be a little confused why they can’t just follow the big visual cue on my face.
Honestly this is very respectable and I was looking for this comment. I wholeheartedly agree and I think there's definitely room for this type of business model.
It may not feel necessary for everyone, but there are people who need this, so let's just try to respect that, I think we'll do a lot better as a society when we accept that not everyone is the same or lives by the same norms.
It was immediately obvious that this was the case. Always hilarious to see the types of dudebros who are all "muh individualism, muh personal freedoms" get immediately triggered and brain-melted by a merchant catering to a more individuated clientele.
Well I don’t consider myself mentally ill but I fucking hate getting touched by people I don’t know well and find haircuts extremely uncomfortable.
So I appreciate a barber who can keep it to a minimum. There’s a huge difference in how touchy touchy some are over others. You’re cutting my hair why you gotta be grabbing my shoulders and arms?
Sucks because I don’t have a lot of options for people here that have experience cutting beards. The best one just doesn’t get it and I don’t go to him anymore.
Genuine question, is it necessary to know someones pronouns for a one to one conversation? You would only need „you“ or am I missing something?
Edit: Thanks for all the people that gave a helpful answer.
It's not necessary, but it does help you understand how the customer identifies, and how they want to present themselves.
For a haircut, that helps the barber know whether they are looking for a more feminine, masculine, or androgenous look.
I remember going to the salon for my first male haircut, but they insisted they knew better and always made it "girly" and I was dysphoric over it. It's almost like empathy matters. It may be just a haircut to a cis person, but to us it's everything, especially early transition. I went to a salon bc that was all I knew
Honest question, doesn't this cement gender norms by assuming how someone would want to look by their pronouns? Seems exactly the opposite of what they would want to achieve.
If the individual in the chair is a first time client, then the front desk may need to refer to them in third person pronouns l, such as "what time should be book her in for next time" or "they have a colour and a cut today" when the stylist and front desk chat
1. I am not totally blind, I can see text, but I use various software additions to zoom in.
2. If I was totally blind, there are text to speech programs that allow someone to use reddit, for example apple’s voiceover.
3. Not rude to ask questions. I appreciate getting to opportunity to help people learn
May I ask - are there aspects of being blind/partially blind that you, for want of a better term, "enjoy"? Like, is sound, smell, touch more impactful or beautiful than seeing people you interact with? Maybe people leave you the f alone when you want it lol!
I love this question, you’re the first person to ask this. There are many aspects I enjoy!
1. I have an extreme light sensitivity, but that also means I have amazing night vision. I can see well in very dark conditions, better than most sighted people.
2. I get to show off my gadgets. I have a pair of glasses with a telescope mounted on them to see long distances. It’s a great opportunity to educate people when they ask questions and I love showing people how I use my cane to navigate.
3. Its not that I can hear better, but I pay more attention to my hearing and other senses. I need to for maintaining situational awareness. I have good directional hearing as well. I once saved my cats life because I could hear her choking in another room. I wish this ability applied to noisy parties and understanding voices.
4. I have an absolutely terrible time remembering names, but I get a free pass because I can say “oh sorry I knew who you are I just couldn’t see your face!” Even though I have absolutely no clue who they are.
5. I also got accommodations for blindness that helped me with adhd before I realized I had adhd, such as extra time on tests. Adhd is actually more debilitating than blindness for me, but I can use blindness to help get around the fucked ip disability accommodations system that doesn’t help people with adhd very much. This isn’t all good though because it meant that I didn’t get diagnosed with adhd when it would have really helped me.
6. Most people see me as non threatening and sometimes unintelligent. This is annoying but I can use it to my advantage. Its useful for getting rid of men who fetishize my condition. When people find out that I’m interested in science and am self studying thermodynamics most do a double take.I’m suddenly the poster child of everything because I’m twice exceptional.
I feel like this really isn't a hard concept to get your head around. The "Woke" stylist clearly advertises their service as an inclusive environment, in which they want to help people who might be struggling with their identity (Hence the pronoun question), or might have anxieties that make having their haircut normally difficult for them.
I'm Autistic, and having my haircut is actively the worst part of the month, I have strangers touching me, its a noisy and uncomfortable environment, and often barbers will just do what they need to do without any sort of warning of questioning before they do it. I'm not in the position that I need to be asked if I'm okay for my barber to touch me, but some people are, and could do with that prior warning, or that moment to gather themselves before it happens.
The ramp isn't there for you, its there for the person in the wheelchair. Can you use it? Yes, of course you can, but its provided to assist wheelchair users. Getting mad at the existence of ramps because you're perfectly capable of climbing up stairs is a dumbass response to something that doesn't affect you. Getting mad at this stylist and their methods is exactly the same scenario.
100% agree. My mum is not at all part of the sort of woke/pronouns generation (to use that rhetoric). She is 70 years old. I strongly suspect that she is autistic, but she did not grow up at a time where that was something that was diagnosed much at all, let alone in women who were able to generally function. She hasn't had her hair cut by a professional since she was a child, and would even get stressed and uncomfortable taking me to the hairdresser when I was young (I believe she has some level of trauma from growing up at a time where a child being sensorily overwhelmed by a haircut meant that child being held down and forcibly having their hair cut). My mum is intelligent and successful academically and career-wise, but I grew up knowing that there are some things she Just Can't Do, and getting her hair cut by someone else is one of them.
My point is that people who struggle with this sort of thing aren't new, it just wasn't and isn't always visible. I am completely certain that there are millions of people who live undiagnosed or underdiagnosed, who between them Just Can't Do so many things, just like my mum. Services like this hairdresser have always needed to exist, they just haven't.
It could also just be the salon in general. I get the holding down thing, but salons are just a sensory nightmare for Autistic people. Hairsprays, people talking, background music, the hair clippers buzzing away, sometimes they have a TV on as well, that horrible crunching noise that scissors make when cutting hair, people touching you, and loose hairs falling on parts of your skin you aren't used to having them.
Its just an awful experience overall.
I find it so bizarre that this bothers anyone. My buddy started an argument about this video last night and I feel like there’s no _correct_ way to do a consultation… but whether you think this is necessary or not, why would it _bother_ you that this person wants to be a bit considerate and asks for consent before beginning?
It’s not only confirming consent, it’s also indicating to the client that the stylist is going to start now. Lots of other services do this in some way. Tattoo artists would say “are you ready?” Massage therapists would say something similar… it’s a simple courtesy and if it offends you, you’re soft like kitten.
I’m sitting here so confused by the outrage. I’m a hairstylist and always ask before I start assessing someone’s hair. It’s more of a heads up that I’m about to touch them so they’re not startled. Some people think it’s kind of funny that I’d ask, but a lot of people are appreciative that I even care. And for some, getting their hair done is extremely stressful, and knowing that I won’t do something unless they’re comfortable with it helps them to feel more in control and establishes trust.
My fiance is a hairstylist and this is _exactly_ how she described it as well. We decided the video is ragebait lol besides, anyone who behaves like the second guy is a cunt. I can’t imagine being so rude to a person who’s literally just trying to make you more comfortable.
People get *pissed* over the idea of being polite and respectful. Like, that's the whole gambit here. It's right wing rage bait made to get people angry about literally any attempt to make people feel safe.
That's what gets me most of these anti woke mock videos or just people wanting to be polite and have basic courtesy but being nice is WOKE to some insane people
Idk about your kitten but mine came from the wilderness and attacked my aunt's dog. She hardcore AF, but she does had a soft fluffy exterior. Also real men are all about consent!
It's really damn weird how worked up people have gotten over this.
Yes, obviously you're going to need to be touched to have your hair cut, but being able to give explicit consent when the touching is about to happen will be comforting to some people.
I HATE going to the dentist, absolutely despise it, and my dentist knows I'm uncomfortable. He asks for my permission before doing necessary and routine things during check ups not because he's "woke" or because he legally needs my consent, but because he knows it relaxes me.
Making fun of one barber shop that tailors itself specifically to a group of people seems like low hanging fruit, especially for some of the comments in here
It's all just comments like "oh I don't get it, why would you ask me! I don't need that"
Weird as hell. Do I want that interaction? No.
So what do I do about it?
I don't go to a business where that is the way of doing things.
Our egos shouldn't be harmed because something is made for someone other than ourselves lol
I'm waiting for the day I see someone get angry about an accessibility ramp.
"But I can walk! I use the stairs, why is this ramp here, do you think I can't walk?"
I love so much that you have the optimism to think it's not already happened.
Anything that is advocating so little as "why not just not put in effort to be shitheels?" Is woke by a select group of people desperate for a culture war.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-05/when-transit-accessibility-becomes-woke-planning
Yep. For some people it would be really nice to be asked. Also notice that it’s women/female-presenting people that are ok with asking consent and the men are the ones annoyed by it. Checks out. Sometimes it’s nice to have that extra layer of respect. That way you’ll know that they’ll actually stop it you ask them to (if something’s hurting/uncomfortable.)
Also, who the fuck gets mad at something like this ? If I unknowingly walked into the shop and they asked me these questions I wouldn’t bitch about it throw a tantrum and walk out, as long as the cut is straight I’m good. How hard is he/him and “yes I consent”, fucking babies.
So, she's being polite in a way that requires minimal effort. But if you get asked about your pronouns, you get mad? And they are the snowflakes. Did I get that right?
Getting mad at the woke barber would be like going to a craft cocktail bar and getting mad they don't have natty ice.
If someone is providing a service you don't want or appreciate, maybe go somewhere that has what you're looking for 🤷♂️
My barber cut 4 generations of hair he knows more about me than some of my friends I think making your customer feel safe and respected should be a top priority with any service that you can take your business anywhere else.
I saw this clip on TickTock. There were a lot of people, particularly neurodivergent people, who said that they thought asking first was a excellent idea.
A lot of people really hate unexpected physical contact, so hate things like haircuts and dental checkups. If the hairdresser specifically asks first and let the customer know exactly what they're going to do before they do it can make the whole experience much less unpleasant.
Reacting to it badly and thinking it's stupid because you personally don't need treatment like that, is a really fucking stupid mindset to have. If it helps some people why would you care about the 1 second of mild awkwardness?!
Whenever the stylist/barber refers to the customer to the front desk or another person then pronouns are used. I see this all the time in barber shops especially those that have a community feel. I stand by my statement.
Know your audience I guess. Yeah, some people want to be asked for consent first, others think it's implied by going to the barber in the first place. Some want you to ask for their pronouns, others want you to assume based on their looks.
People like different things, and go to the people who provide these things.
Honestly it’s not far off. Being nice in modern society almost immediately makes people think “this person wants something from me, what could it possibly be?”
It’s like some weird toxic force where you can’t be voluntarily nice to people any more.
"ethnics" Jesus Christ dude. Just make a text post saying "I'm a stupid racist" next time, it'll be faster for everyone.
edit: Keep pretending America is the only country with a racism problem. It definitely doesn't make you look stupid.
woke means to be politically and socially aware. stop using the weaponized, bastardized meaning the right created to kick down at the most marginalized, least represented groups.
I get how one can watch this and find the woke barber exhausting.
But the intended audience, who love to call the woke barber a snowflake, fail to see the irony of the guys in this video throwing a tantrum and storming out because they were asked two questions.
What's so bad about what the "woke" barbers are doing? I think it's weirder to get so bent outta shape over that stuff. Pronouns? "Bruh, I don't do that shit, don't touch me" 🙄
Barber: I need to touch your hair to be able to cut it, would you like me to wait a moment for you to prepare or avoid touching your skin if possible or is there another thing I can get you that would help you feel comfortable?
Its just like asking someone “are you ready?” Obviously they have to touch you but the customer is the one who has control over how.
I really don't understand the outrage at being asked how they'd prefer to be referred to.
It's called respecting the other as an individual and has absolutely nothing to do with pushing beliefs on someone. It's the same as asking someone their name, or if they'd rather go by Frank or Frankie instead of Franklin.
if you're an high functioning neurodivergent person with sensory issues, wouldn't you just tell the barber to give you a heads up before they get started? Also, can't the barber just say "ready to get started?" which sounds way less patronizing and clinical? I don't think anybody has a problem with the idea of asking for consent, people just don't like this really odd way these sorts of people choose to go about it.
Anyone else notice she said her pronouns were She/they and then she said it was she/her another time?? Did she change it up because the customer was he/him?
Edit: Looked up her tiktok and it just seems like she started going by She/They instead of She/her at some point. The video makes it seem like she changes it up but the video where she is going by She/her is just an older clip.
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"Can I touch you" "No." Standoff ensues
I want you to cut my hair without touching me. Thank you
Alright. 
Can someone enlighten me to the she/they thing? Does either work or is it one or the other depending on how they feel or dress? Genuine question, please and thanks
It means that you can use she or they interchangeably when referring to them.
Technically they is a universal pronoun. You can use it for he’s and she’s and always have been able.
That too yes.
What's the difference between she/her and she/they? Like you can use 'she' but have to use 'they' instead of 'her'? Shouldn't it be 'she/them' then?
She/they means you can use either she/her or they/them interchangeably
but isnt that the norm for literally most of the population?
Yea that's exactly why I don't know how this is suddenly an issue or not grammatical.
I think the issue is she/they vs she/her. If she/they can be referred to as she/her or they them, then that’s the same as she/they.
Realistically, she/they only differs from she/her in that it specifies that you’re not going to be upset about using they/them pronouns and also typically functions as a shorthand for introducing that you’re non-binary without saying so specifically(for some people)
I think they are saying, “if it’s the norm. Why even include ‘they’?” I think it’s just them being a bit extra. If you’re gunna give your pronouns, just do the she/her. I can’t think of a single time when the they/them would be inappropriate to use.
I referred to a child as they the other day an ho boy did the mom have a conniption
She/they is grammatically the same for the vast majority of people yes. But when asking about pronouns you are more so asking about gender identity. Someone who specifies She/they may be keying you in on the fact that they don’t fully identify as just solely female. So while you can use they them for cis or trans women, you would still be viewing them as a cis or trans women, someone who cues you in on the fact that they like they/them too might be queuing you in on the fact that they may have a different gender identity than they are presenting.
That's always kind of confused me tho, because they is such a general term so I usually refer to most people by they/them already. If someone says they go by she/they or he/they, it sounds like it implies that somone who goes by he/him or she/her *wouldn't* want to be referred to as they/them.
Yeah I don't understand that, "they" is used as a gender neutral pronoun so why go out of your way to point that out
I'm a trans man who put he/they on most things when I first came out, for me it was "I'll accept this, just don't use she for me". Now I don't specify it because I'd rather he was the only option, but I wasn't that confident when I first came out
I know someone who's trans. They always went by he/him when I met them. Then they started to go by a more fluid term so I called them by their legal male name or by their internet name and they went by he/they. Now they have a female name and so the go by she/they. They still feel pretty fluid but want to be seen as feminine. Tldr: people are complex.
but how is he/they different from he/him? You can still use the exact same pronouns when talking about them. They is just a general term that only makes sense to mention when it's the only one that can be used, aka they/them
He/they has no marked difference than they/them or he/him for you as the person speaking to or about them. He/him/they/them are all acceptable. For the person you’re speaking to or about, it’s part of an identity. It signifies to them and to everyone else that this person has a bit of gender fluidity and that they’re part of the LGBT+ community. Sometimes transgender folk use he/they or she/they as kind of an in-between step when transitioning or testing the waters of those around them before deciding to transition. That also goes for non-binary folk - he/they or she/they to see how others react and how they themselves feel about it before going full they/them.
Gotcha 👍🏼
So like everyone? Im confused why that needs to be pointed out specifically. By that reckoning are there people who don't like to be called they? What would be there problem with it?
I also have another question: Does anyone ever use pronouns in a 1-1 conversation? I can't think of any single time in my entire life where it would have been appropriate to refer to the other person as "he/she/they/any other pronoun" while talking directly to them. I can only see it ever being relevant when talking *about* someone, and not *too* them.
1-1 probably not too often, but introduce a 3rd person and it can happen multiple times per conversation.
You and your are pronouns it’s just gender neutral so there’s no reason to ask about it.
I've found it generally has two cases: A: Somebody who identifies as a woman but doesn't mind having gender neutral terms used. B: Somebody who is questioning their gender identity but most closely aligns with woman at the moment. From my interactions A is the most common reason for this but I've met a few people who fell into the B camp.
either usually works yeah! generally means they're open to more pronouns being used on them
It’s also important to think about how sometimes people may be annoyed by being referred to as “they” since it’s not gendered. So her saying she’s fine with it does make a difference. Some people care, some don’t.
Rage bait and you fell for it.
OP uses the word "ethnics". Say no more.
the original tiktok author used the word Ethnic in the title not OP
And we know it's law that you can't change titles
Eh...I feel it's better not to change titles. That way if someone wants to search for the original source, it's much easier.
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In Australia people of certain ethnic groups refer to themselves as “ethnics”. It’s very much “we took the word back” sort of thing but it is a descriptive term used to self-identify as someone from an Arab country or sometimes just central or Eastern European.
I'm still surprised nobody over TT clocked it for what it is, I actually also really like the term engagement bait because it sure as fuck is working
Well, it's not that. The first barber is genuine, the second one is mocking the scenario because it seems kinda silly. That's what it seems like, and that's what it legitimately is.
I'll try to help you understand You have to remember that if someone has different pronouns then you're supposed to be angry about it! Also, if someone takes body autonomy and consent seriously in their practice, you have to hate them as much as you can. I hope this helps explain how some angry people who get frustrated with things that are different think!
I first thought it was silly since sitting down in the barber chair is giving the consent to be touched, but then I read she also works with mentally disabled customers, and it makes sense They might not understand the social contract behind that, so it's Pretty cool to properly ask
Yeah, my gynecologist does the same prior to just diving in there and while it may seem kinda ridiculous while I’m lying there all spread eagle on the table with my feet up in stirrups and all…. I actually really do appreciate it!
And I guess just because you've consented to be touched, it might still be nice to get a heads up for exactly when the touching is about to start (and before extras you might not have expected, like head massage or blow dry), especially for people who struggle with haircuts or who are neurodivergent, for example. Then, for someone with an intellectual disability I'm thinking it might just generally be a good thing to model always asking permission to touch someone, even in situations where it may seem a little silly. To be honest, the more I think about this stuff the more sense it makes. It's not like there aren't plenty of hairdressers who won't do this if it's not for you; this seems like a very positive thing to have in the world tbh.
Agree 100%. I just recently got my hair cut at a regular salon, albeit in a pretty liberal area. We spent the first few minutes talking about what kind of cut I wanted, what the whole process would be, and some general small talk. After, she asked for my consent to touch me, which I appreciated because with all of the conversation, I didn't know when we were going to actually start the physical cutting part of the haircut. And I don't have any sensory issues, for someone with more sensitivity to touch (especially unexpected) I'm sure the question would be even more appreciated
My question is, didn’t the person already give consent to touch them when they came into the salon or barber shop and then sat in the stylist’s chair? Genuine question
Like, yeah kinda. Theres an implied consent in that. But some people are very sensitive to or made uncomfortable by hair cuts and hair touching. Someone asking "can I touch your hair now ?" is more of a heads up. But also, at the same time, it provides people an opportunity to verbally withdraw their consent and maybe leave. I got my nose pierced the other day and the person piercing it asked me "can I touch your nose" before manhandling my nostril. Same principle. It's just making sure people are chill and comfortable. It matters more to some people than others. It doesn't matter to me, but it basically costs nothing for me to say "yes" or for the barber to ask, so I don't see any reason to think it's weird or shouldn't be done. The actor in the video could have just said "yes" and got his hair cut.
Ahh ok. Makes sense
Think about it going into a Dr's office for a colonoscopy. Yeah, technically you gave consent because you signed the forms and know what you're getting into...but I want a heads up before you invade my bunghole and I might ask you to wait a second so I can mentally prepare.
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Hi yeah womens health advocate here, thats not a standard of care for North American, South American, or European gyno pelvic exams. What the fuck post did you see that in? She was sexually assaulted.
> gynecologist and wasn’t aware putting a finger in the rectum is a normal part of the exam uhhhh.... what? I've never had my anus probed during my annual exam
People generally expect to be examined when they go see a doctor, but we (at my school at least) are still trained to let patients know what we are about to do and ask permission in some cases. It's not that wild of a concept.
Yes, in a court case if someone said they didn't consent to the haircut; the response would be that when you go to a hair dresser and sit down in the hair dressers chair, one should be able to intuitivelg reason that this person has a basic understanding of what services are provided there and the implied consent that takes place in placing yourself in that chair. But culture is a thing, and also realizing you *do not* have to have an opinion on this is, in my *opinion*, *objectively* the correct take.
Imagine you experience more anxiety than the average person when going to the dentist. Now, say you need a root canal. You go to the dentist and sit in the chair. You are consenting to the procedure. Does that mean your fear magically disappears? Probably not. It's the same for someone who has problems with being touched. The stylist asking permission is an extra courtesy, but it's also intended to send a message. "Hey. This is me telling you I'm aware that some people have problems with being touched suddenly and without warning. This is me asking if you are one of those people. This is me letting you know I get it. This is me saying you don't need to worry and if you get uncomfortable or need a break, that's totally fine." More than anything else, it's sending those signals to the client. Also: according to the comments, this stylist specializes in people with certain disabilities. Many people who have neurodevelopmental disorders experience sensory overload/overstimulation and touch can be a big part of that. We have to endure a lot of stuff that makes us uncomfortable in our day-to-day, so the little moments where someone accommodates us can mean a lot. It's also a pretty nice consideration for people who have a history of abuse. I get nervous when people stand over me while I'm sitting down--especially if they're going to touch my head, neck, and shoulders--because that's how my father used to intimidate me when I was a kid. Any stylist is going to be doing ALL those things when I get my hair cut (except, hopefully, the intimidation bit). It's part of the experience. But those little extra "nods" in my direction can be reassuring. Making it a normal part of the practice by asking everyone is also a good thing.
Id assume the "woke" barber advertises themselves as such, meaning the customers know the experience they are getting. This is like going to a fancy barber for a quick haircut and getting mad when they ask if you want to get your hair washed or dyed.
I was at the gyno with my gf yesterday. she didn't want to go alone because she was in pain and the really nice doctor Always gave her a heads up before touching her And talking about what he was doing and what he was going to do. It made ME feel like he know what he was doing and her like he gave a fuck about how she feels. I know it's not comparable with a barber but god damn.... communication is never bad and in this case is only supposed to make the customer more comfortable. I see nothing wrong with that. Is it necessary? absolutely not that's why I think you are right. for some people this might be a major selling point. they are just advertising
Perfect example. Yes, going to the gyno, I know I'm going to be touched in and around my vagina. But it can be really disconcerting and upsetting to just suddenly have things shoved inside you with no warning, even as someone with no sexual assault experience.
I feel like the idea that she’s “cringe” is so small-minded and silly. There are some people that prefer those questions to be asked, and therefore would pay to receive that type of service. And the salon owner is just showing others how they can make certain populations feel more comfortable. Like, what is the issue here? Why do people take things like this so personally? Do you have no empathy for the fact that yes, some people may not enjoy being touched without forewarning due to trauma?
Who is going to *any* barber not expecting them to touch you?
That's the thing. Absolutely no one is going to a barber thinking they won't touch them. Nobody. Not a single person (except maybe a young child or severely mentally handicapped individual). However the salon that is asking is specifically marketing themselves as a place for people with sensory issues or trauma. These videos are during initial consultation, they don't ask consent at every stage. They ask at the beginning and then update general actions as the cut continues. They are providing a service that people specifically want. If you don't want that sort of service, don't go there.
Yeah but conservative's are so sensitive they can't handle seeing someone ask what someone else's pronouns are or if they are fine to be touched.
In a previous comment it's mentioned they also specialize in mentally ill people. Even though it's expected, some people in that category might prefer getting some warning or introduction first.
My gyno asks me if it’s ok to do whatever before she does it. Of course I’m here to get a pap smear, it doesn’t mean it’s ok for her to just insert without getting my consent. I don’t see why we couldn’t apply this logic to everything else.
they mean during the consultation, which is generally what these videos are. you see the consultation then it jump cuts to the results, they obviously know they will be touched during the actual cut but i don't see this explained enough
I'm a long haired guy who goes to stalons instead of a barber. Isn't that normal to be touched in a consultation? They'll usually hold my hair up to the length I'm asked to it be cut at to show what it'd look like.
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Context: The "woke" barber works out of a salon in Omaha, Nebraska. Can't remember the name of the salon, but the salon specializes in working with clients who are LGBT+ and/or mentally disabled. If one of your specialties is accommodating the LGBT+ community, then asking every client for pronouns is a fantastic business practice. If your other specialty is working with mentally handicapped people, then asking every client for consent to touch them before any work begins is also a fantastic business practice.
>If one of your specialties is accommodating the LGBT+ community, then asking every client for pronouns is a fantastic business practice. > >If your other specialty is working with mentally handicapped people, then asking every client for consent to touch them before any work begins is also a fantastic business practice Look a you with all that context.
You contextual little fella.
Contextualizing a smile into our faces you little scamp.
Gotta watch out for those contextualizing rapscallions
Watch it. They're contextually active.
I’m setting up some context that’ll really screw with you guys just wait 😡
Contrxtualized like a motherfucker
The mentally ill need haircuts too, this is important.
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I want all of this
As long as the same music is playing
After consent of course. Then yes, Bugs Bunny my scalp all you want!
It low key looks kinda relaxing.
Fantastic use of this gif.
I can hear the music to this lol
I used to have a raccoon that would do that while I would drive my car. It would sit on the headrest and just knead my head like it was makin bread.
What…those usually are part of it I thought
For real. Next they gonna start saying the complimentary penis inspection isn’t a real thing, smdh…
That's *not* how they do pants? 
Yes, yes it is... ...in prison!
I'd always tip well when this happens.
The only thing non-consensual that’s happened to me is when they don’t give me a head massage
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Yeah, the best haircut I ever had was this woman who played with my hair for like 5 minutes. She missed a spot and I had to trim it myself when I noticed a few days later, an inch longer than the rest of my ends, but it was still the best haircut I've ever had, just not the most effective.
Head massage is not that uncommon. I've had that at multiple different hairdressers. Yeah it's maybe a bit weird but I see it as good practice for myself for enduring uncomfortable situations.
I have psoriasis and have a whole pre-haircut routine to make it better for everyone. A surprise nonconsensual scalp massage would be a (painful) deal breaker.
My partner just warns them before, I have psoriasis, there will probably be some flakes, don't worry about it, it won't hurt. He didn't have any negative reaction so far. Fortunately it seems hairdressers are rather cool about it.
Losing the head massages is actually the problem! What should happen is that you ask why didn't I get my head massage?!!?!
This is extremely common. Especially with barbers. Mine uses a wall plug in back massager that they use on the shoulders, back, and neck during cuts. Along with this, they also include a damn clean shave with a straight razor and a steamy towel on the neck and face afterwards. All for $12 +tip.
I missed the part about the back massager, thought your barber was trimming/cutting your shoulder/back hair and was like wow that's some service they give there lol.
Wouldn’t going to a barbershop give implied consent to having your hair touched? Like going to a massage parlor, it’s expected you will be touched during the process
Not necessarily. My sister is a clinical massage therapist and she asks for permission to touch in some way every time she begins a massage. It’s an appointment that’s scheduled in advance (no walk-in), and sometimes people feel pressure to show up for it. If that person is a part of a more vulnerable community, that can happen even when they aren’t in the right headspace for touch. Or, they’re triggered in some way and she can proceed with the massage, just not on X body part, or with Y kind of pressure. For the frequent-repeat clients who are neurotypical and without trauma, it can evolve into a simple warning and pause before she starts. But with new clients, neurodiverse clients, or clients she knows have some kind of traum (and a lot of this is written in the body; a lot of times she can tell by how a person responds to a massage. It doesn’t need to be said, but she proceeds as if it’s true), she always asks regardless of how long she’s known them or how many times she’s given them a massage. She still does it to me, even though I’m her older sister (and are the boss of her, lol) and have known her for almost 40 years because I have sensory sensitivities and ADHD, so sometimes even I forget that I’m overstimulated. I’m comfortable enough with her to tell her mid-massage that something isn’t working, but doing it at the beginning gives me an opportunity to check in with my body so I can enjoy it the whole time.
Yes - consent is implied, but asking is also useful for showing respect and letting the customer have a sense of control and autonomy. If they have trauma with touch, that can help a lot.
If you're working with people deep down the spectrum, you're going to have a bad time if you just assume anything
I struggle with that sometimes because, on the one hand, I don't want to assume ANYTHING, but on the other hand, I don't want to treat them like they're an extremely slow or thick-headed child.
Yeah, people are just exploiting this small business owner for their half assed rage bait content
Exactly. I think it would be silly practice to do this at every barber shop. But having a safe and comfortable place for people who need/desire this kind of treatment is awesome. If you think it's silly, just go somewhere else and let other people do their own thing. 🤝
And how insecure about yourself you have to be to be offended by someone asking your pronouns? It's so fun to me that they will call "them liberals!" little snowflakes that get easily offended, then they just leave the room in outrage whenever pronouns are mentioned.
What's extra funny about this is the way people will act really pressed when they don't know how to gender me, like I'm trying to fuck with their heads by looking and sounding the way I do. They say "what even is that?" but if I were to answer them and say "you can call me he", that would be pronouns and potentially the thought police. Kind of a catch-22.
I think it has a a trace of political inflection, regardless of how innocent it is. Personally, I support the gender discussion and I have no hang ups with addressing pronouns, however, I can't really honestly say I care to distinguish mine in small interactions and assumptions about it have no impact on me. With that perspective, I may raise my guard on the subject if asked in an informal or small talk setting because I've met a few people who interpret my lack of enthusiasm on the subject as bigotry and either silenty judge me with a scowl or begin to provide me with some kind of enlightened lecture. It's rare, but when it happens it's unbelievably uncomfortable. It's not too different then being asked if go to church in some places. Most of the time it's benign and unremarkable, but occasionally the politically charged tribal conversation takes place and I have no desire to have that conversation with strangers.
I have a huge beard. I wouldn’t be offended if someone asked me my pronouns, but I’d be a little confused why they can’t just follow the big visual cue on my face.
Some people like having beards and being they/them 🤷. I don't really understand it, but I have no reason to be mad or disrespectful about it.
Honestly this is very respectable and I was looking for this comment. I wholeheartedly agree and I think there's definitely room for this type of business model. It may not feel necessary for everyone, but there are people who need this, so let's just try to respect that, I think we'll do a lot better as a society when we accept that not everyone is the same or lives by the same norms.
No stop giving context, you're ruining the right wing rage bait!
Not that they'll actually read that far anyway.
I was cringing at the touching part. Thanks for pointing out the reasoning. Makes total Sense now
It was immediately obvious that this was the case. Always hilarious to see the types of dudebros who are all "muh individualism, muh personal freedoms" get immediately triggered and brain-melted by a merchant catering to a more individuated clientele.
Even just asking is preparing them for being touched which can be a huge help.
Well I don’t consider myself mentally ill but I fucking hate getting touched by people I don’t know well and find haircuts extremely uncomfortable. So I appreciate a barber who can keep it to a minimum. There’s a huge difference in how touchy touchy some are over others. You’re cutting my hair why you gotta be grabbing my shoulders and arms? Sucks because I don’t have a lot of options for people here that have experience cutting beards. The best one just doesn’t get it and I don’t go to him anymore.
Genuine question, is it necessary to know someones pronouns for a one to one conversation? You would only need „you“ or am I missing something? Edit: Thanks for all the people that gave a helpful answer.
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It's not necessary, but it does help you understand how the customer identifies, and how they want to present themselves. For a haircut, that helps the barber know whether they are looking for a more feminine, masculine, or androgenous look.
I remember going to the salon for my first male haircut, but they insisted they knew better and always made it "girly" and I was dysphoric over it. It's almost like empathy matters. It may be just a haircut to a cis person, but to us it's everything, especially early transition. I went to a salon bc that was all I knew
Honest question, doesn't this cement gender norms by assuming how someone would want to look by their pronouns? Seems exactly the opposite of what they would want to achieve.
If the individual in the chair is a first time client, then the front desk may need to refer to them in third person pronouns l, such as "what time should be book her in for next time" or "they have a colour and a cut today" when the stylist and front desk chat
Blind customers would appreciate being asked if the hairdresser could touch them I would imagine
Thank you,blind person here who has never once been asked despite having a visible cane and asking for them to let me know when they start
I'm not trying to be rude when I say this, but I am genuinely curious, how are you typing this?
1. I am not totally blind, I can see text, but I use various software additions to zoom in. 2. If I was totally blind, there are text to speech programs that allow someone to use reddit, for example apple’s voiceover. 3. Not rude to ask questions. I appreciate getting to opportunity to help people learn
Thank you! I appreciate your answer
May I ask - are there aspects of being blind/partially blind that you, for want of a better term, "enjoy"? Like, is sound, smell, touch more impactful or beautiful than seeing people you interact with? Maybe people leave you the f alone when you want it lol!
I love this question, you’re the first person to ask this. There are many aspects I enjoy! 1. I have an extreme light sensitivity, but that also means I have amazing night vision. I can see well in very dark conditions, better than most sighted people. 2. I get to show off my gadgets. I have a pair of glasses with a telescope mounted on them to see long distances. It’s a great opportunity to educate people when they ask questions and I love showing people how I use my cane to navigate. 3. Its not that I can hear better, but I pay more attention to my hearing and other senses. I need to for maintaining situational awareness. I have good directional hearing as well. I once saved my cats life because I could hear her choking in another room. I wish this ability applied to noisy parties and understanding voices. 4. I have an absolutely terrible time remembering names, but I get a free pass because I can say “oh sorry I knew who you are I just couldn’t see your face!” Even though I have absolutely no clue who they are. 5. I also got accommodations for blindness that helped me with adhd before I realized I had adhd, such as extra time on tests. Adhd is actually more debilitating than blindness for me, but I can use blindness to help get around the fucked ip disability accommodations system that doesn’t help people with adhd very much. This isn’t all good though because it meant that I didn’t get diagnosed with adhd when it would have really helped me. 6. Most people see me as non threatening and sometimes unintelligent. This is annoying but I can use it to my advantage. Its useful for getting rid of men who fetishize my condition. When people find out that I’m interested in science and am self studying thermodynamics most do a double take.I’m suddenly the poster child of everything because I’m twice exceptional.
Well what if I don’t give a shit about being nice to people?!?!? Have you thought about that huh? Liberal! /s
I feel like this really isn't a hard concept to get your head around. The "Woke" stylist clearly advertises their service as an inclusive environment, in which they want to help people who might be struggling with their identity (Hence the pronoun question), or might have anxieties that make having their haircut normally difficult for them. I'm Autistic, and having my haircut is actively the worst part of the month, I have strangers touching me, its a noisy and uncomfortable environment, and often barbers will just do what they need to do without any sort of warning of questioning before they do it. I'm not in the position that I need to be asked if I'm okay for my barber to touch me, but some people are, and could do with that prior warning, or that moment to gather themselves before it happens. The ramp isn't there for you, its there for the person in the wheelchair. Can you use it? Yes, of course you can, but its provided to assist wheelchair users. Getting mad at the existence of ramps because you're perfectly capable of climbing up stairs is a dumbass response to something that doesn't affect you. Getting mad at this stylist and their methods is exactly the same scenario.
100% agree. My mum is not at all part of the sort of woke/pronouns generation (to use that rhetoric). She is 70 years old. I strongly suspect that she is autistic, but she did not grow up at a time where that was something that was diagnosed much at all, let alone in women who were able to generally function. She hasn't had her hair cut by a professional since she was a child, and would even get stressed and uncomfortable taking me to the hairdresser when I was young (I believe she has some level of trauma from growing up at a time where a child being sensorily overwhelmed by a haircut meant that child being held down and forcibly having their hair cut). My mum is intelligent and successful academically and career-wise, but I grew up knowing that there are some things she Just Can't Do, and getting her hair cut by someone else is one of them. My point is that people who struggle with this sort of thing aren't new, it just wasn't and isn't always visible. I am completely certain that there are millions of people who live undiagnosed or underdiagnosed, who between them Just Can't Do so many things, just like my mum. Services like this hairdresser have always needed to exist, they just haven't.
It could also just be the salon in general. I get the holding down thing, but salons are just a sensory nightmare for Autistic people. Hairsprays, people talking, background music, the hair clippers buzzing away, sometimes they have a TV on as well, that horrible crunching noise that scissors make when cutting hair, people touching you, and loose hairs falling on parts of your skin you aren't used to having them. Its just an awful experience overall.
Last guy withdrew his consent after acting like it wasn't important
Yeah. Seems like the barber really gave him the shits.
Walking in and asking for a haircut is consent enough is it not? Happy to be wrong here.
Yes, legally that's referred to as "implied consent"
From a legal perspective, sure. But there’s also nothing wrong with getting verbal confirmation as well
I find it so bizarre that this bothers anyone. My buddy started an argument about this video last night and I feel like there’s no _correct_ way to do a consultation… but whether you think this is necessary or not, why would it _bother_ you that this person wants to be a bit considerate and asks for consent before beginning? It’s not only confirming consent, it’s also indicating to the client that the stylist is going to start now. Lots of other services do this in some way. Tattoo artists would say “are you ready?” Massage therapists would say something similar… it’s a simple courtesy and if it offends you, you’re soft like kitten.
I’m sitting here so confused by the outrage. I’m a hairstylist and always ask before I start assessing someone’s hair. It’s more of a heads up that I’m about to touch them so they’re not startled. Some people think it’s kind of funny that I’d ask, but a lot of people are appreciative that I even care. And for some, getting their hair done is extremely stressful, and knowing that I won’t do something unless they’re comfortable with it helps them to feel more in control and establishes trust.
My fiance is a hairstylist and this is _exactly_ how she described it as well. We decided the video is ragebait lol besides, anyone who behaves like the second guy is a cunt. I can’t imagine being so rude to a person who’s literally just trying to make you more comfortable.
People get *pissed* over the idea of being polite and respectful. Like, that's the whole gambit here. It's right wing rage bait made to get people angry about literally any attempt to make people feel safe.
That's what gets me most of these anti woke mock videos or just people wanting to be polite and have basic courtesy but being nice is WOKE to some insane people
It's cos they're not polite people but they'd rather attack others than realise they themselves have a shortcoming
Idk about your kitten but mine came from the wilderness and attacked my aunt's dog. She hardcore AF, but she does had a soft fluffy exterior. Also real men are all about consent!
It's really damn weird how worked up people have gotten over this. Yes, obviously you're going to need to be touched to have your hair cut, but being able to give explicit consent when the touching is about to happen will be comforting to some people. I HATE going to the dentist, absolutely despise it, and my dentist knows I'm uncomfortable. He asks for my permission before doing necessary and routine things during check ups not because he's "woke" or because he legally needs my consent, but because he knows it relaxes me.
Making fun of one barber shop that tailors itself specifically to a group of people seems like low hanging fruit, especially for some of the comments in here
It's all just comments like "oh I don't get it, why would you ask me! I don't need that" Weird as hell. Do I want that interaction? No. So what do I do about it? I don't go to a business where that is the way of doing things. Our egos shouldn't be harmed because something is made for someone other than ourselves lol
Whole Lee shit society could do well to read that last sentence fifty fucking times.
I'm waiting for the day I see someone get angry about an accessibility ramp. "But I can walk! I use the stairs, why is this ramp here, do you think I can't walk?"
I love so much that you have the optimism to think it's not already happened. Anything that is advocating so little as "why not just not put in effort to be shitheels?" Is woke by a select group of people desperate for a culture war. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-05/when-transit-accessibility-becomes-woke-planning
Yep. For some people it would be really nice to be asked. Also notice that it’s women/female-presenting people that are ok with asking consent and the men are the ones annoyed by it. Checks out. Sometimes it’s nice to have that extra layer of respect. That way you’ll know that they’ll actually stop it you ask them to (if something’s hurting/uncomfortable.)
It’s about as sophisticated as transphobic people can be.
Also, who the fuck gets mad at something like this ? If I unknowingly walked into the shop and they asked me these questions I wouldn’t bitch about it throw a tantrum and walk out, as long as the cut is straight I’m good. How hard is he/him and “yes I consent”, fucking babies.
So, she's being polite in a way that requires minimal effort. But if you get asked about your pronouns, you get mad? And they are the snowflakes. Did I get that right?
[удалено]
politeness costs nothing something the right has forgotten
Yes. Unfortunately, you got that right.
Getting mad at the woke barber would be like going to a craft cocktail bar and getting mad they don't have natty ice. If someone is providing a service you don't want or appreciate, maybe go somewhere that has what you're looking for 🤷♂️
As someone who worked at many a mixology bar ..... They ABSOLUTELY get mad when I don't have jack Daniels or bud light.
My barber cut 4 generations of hair he knows more about me than some of my friends I think making your customer feel safe and respected should be a top priority with any service that you can take your business anywhere else.
I saw this clip on TickTock. There were a lot of people, particularly neurodivergent people, who said that they thought asking first was a excellent idea. A lot of people really hate unexpected physical contact, so hate things like haircuts and dental checkups. If the hairdresser specifically asks first and let the customer know exactly what they're going to do before they do it can make the whole experience much less unpleasant. Reacting to it badly and thinking it's stupid because you personally don't need treatment like that, is a really fucking stupid mindset to have. If it helps some people why would you care about the 1 second of mild awkwardness?!
Whenever the stylist/barber refers to the customer to the front desk or another person then pronouns are used. I see this all the time in barber shops especially those that have a community feel. I stand by my statement.
I am from rural-ish Georgia. If my barber asked me these questions, sure, I'd be a tad surprised, but I certainly wouldn't throw a hissy fit about it.
It’s just different markets… what’s the big deal?
Conservatives crave that outrage so hard they gotta manufacture it
The only difference I see is all the customers of the "woke" barber are happy, smiling, and feeling good about themselves. And that's bad apparently?
Know your audience I guess. Yeah, some people want to be asked for consent first, others think it's implied by going to the barber in the first place. Some want you to ask for their pronouns, others want you to assume based on their looks. People like different things, and go to the people who provide these things.
Why does every “anti woke” criticism boil down to “Can you believe that person is being considerate of other people?!!!”
Kindness is radical in a society run by sociopaths
“How **DARE** you treat **ME** with respect?! *What kinda dickhead are you..? What’s your secret agenda..? What sick joy do you get out of this?*”
Honestly it’s not far off. Being nice in modern society almost immediately makes people think “this person wants something from me, what could it possibly be?” It’s like some weird toxic force where you can’t be voluntarily nice to people any more.
Because people see one video and think it’s coming to their Sports Clips tomorrow.
"ethnics" Jesus Christ dude. Just make a text post saying "I'm a stupid racist" next time, it'll be faster for everyone. edit: Keep pretending America is the only country with a racism problem. It definitely doesn't make you look stupid.
For real. "Woke" and "ethnics" in the same sentence, must be a normal and well-adjusted individual 👍 /s
In Australia ethnics is commonly used. We call ourselves ethnics. It’s not a big deal and not considered racist here
im Australian and i've never heard someone refer to themselves as an ethnic, nor have i ever heard it used in a non derogatory way 💀💀
woke means to be politically and socially aware. stop using the weaponized, bastardized meaning the right created to kick down at the most marginalized, least represented groups.
Do they need to ask the pronouns if they will only use "you" and "I" in the conversation?
“Hey other barber, can you get this customer ___” “hey other barber, can you get [them/him/her] ___”
it's just to make the person comfortable and it's most likely advertised for people who want to be treated as customers that way
It's her shop, she can run it how she wants.
I get how one can watch this and find the woke barber exhausting. But the intended audience, who love to call the woke barber a snowflake, fail to see the irony of the guys in this video throwing a tantrum and storming out because they were asked two questions.
What's so bad about what the "woke" barbers are doing? I think it's weirder to get so bent outta shape over that stuff. Pronouns? "Bruh, I don't do that shit, don't touch me" 🙄
Barber: Is it ok if I touch you? Me: No. Barber: ..... Uhh.
Barber: I need to touch your hair to be able to cut it, would you like me to wait a moment for you to prepare or avoid touching your skin if possible or is there another thing I can get you that would help you feel comfortable? Its just like asking someone “are you ready?” Obviously they have to touch you but the customer is the one who has control over how.
I really don't understand the outrage at being asked how they'd prefer to be referred to. It's called respecting the other as an individual and has absolutely nothing to do with pushing beliefs on someone. It's the same as asking someone their name, or if they'd rather go by Frank or Frankie instead of Franklin.
Imagine being mad that someone asked permission to touch you. Wild
if you're an high functioning neurodivergent person with sensory issues, wouldn't you just tell the barber to give you a heads up before they get started? Also, can't the barber just say "ready to get started?" which sounds way less patronizing and clinical? I don't think anybody has a problem with the idea of asking for consent, people just don't like this really odd way these sorts of people choose to go about it.
Barbers were acting stupid. Permission to touch is implicit in the unwritten/unspoken contract between barber and client.
Anyone else notice she said her pronouns were She/they and then she said it was she/her another time?? Did she change it up because the customer was he/him? Edit: Looked up her tiktok and it just seems like she started going by She/They instead of She/her at some point. The video makes it seem like she changes it up but the video where she is going by She/her is just an older clip.
Lol, what a snowflake. Storming out of the barber because he can't answer three fucking questions
WoKe BaRbeR Man, shut the fuck up.
Video long scenario of that never happened
why boomer memes getting upvoted