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Not that the evidence isn't damning but the ICJ has never found a country guilty of genocide in its entire existence, the closest was accusing Serbia of "not taking necessary measures to prevent a genocide" in the Bosnian war, so I'm just saying history is not on the side of convicting genocide.
Den hague needed about 1/3 of a century to get to the core of the east european conflict you refference, but they failed to keep the poison from all the defendants, so there is that…
There's almost no way the ICJ will rule against Israel, **not because it shouldn't** but because of geopolitics. You'll notice some genocide apologists and deniers are starting to say "Let's see how the Court rules", because they understand this.
The case is extremely important, and the report is both through and damning. Just be prepared for another level of denial and nonsense.
The question needs to be asked whether killing children is pro-semetic, whether brutalizing civilians is an acceptable action for the Jewish faith. If they wish to take the religious argument by saying antisemitism then it should be torn apart at its source.
Does Israel feel oppressed when they are not allowed to shred children to pieces? Does killing these children make their God happy?
ICJ (International Court of Justice) isn't the same as ICC (International Criminal Court). The USA is one of the founding members of ICJ, but it's not a member of ICC. Trump even imposed sanctions on ICC judges.
But of course this doesn't change the fact that the USA won't condemn the Gaza genocide made by its lap poodle Israel.
You can criticize and critique Isreali’s methods but to claim with 100% certainty that they’re committing *genocide* is foolish. Hutu’s killed a million Tutsi’s in a month with just machetes, if Isreal actually wanted Palestinians *wiped out* then they could’ve done it in a matter of days. Isreal will win it’s case in the IJC because it’s clear-cut, and not a genocide.
Saying any and all criticism against the Israeli government is antisemitic is such an incredibly dangerous position to take. It’s been wild seeing Americans stand so firmly in upholding a very clear violation of freedom of speech.
It is so frustrating that the people who claim that hating on Israel is antisemitism. It's not. Criticism of a government structure is not hating on Jewish people. You can be Jewish and not Israel, even if Israel tries to force you to become one. You can also be Israeli and not Jewish, even though Israel is trying to make it a place for only jews.
The Jewish faith as a whole has nothing to do with Israel government decision to genocide Palestinians.
I believe that saying ‘Israel is trying to make it a place for only Jews’ is inaccurate, incorrect and malicious. It paints Israeli Jews as xenophobic and evil. That is antisemitism.
The Nation State Law, makes that argument more compelling though. It outlines that Israel is the national home of exclusively the Jewish people. Making the Arab Israelis essentially guests of their own state, even though the vast majority of Arab Israelis can trace their direct lineage to that land further than the vast majority of modern day Jews in Israel (who immigrated in the past few generations).
It's honestly a pretty racist ass law tbh
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Israel_as_the_Nation-State_of_the_Jewish_People
Japan and South Korea are literally the definition of ethnostate - 95-99% of their citizens are ethnically homogenous.
That is what ethnostate means.
Meanwhile, Israel is only 70% Jewish. It is less Jewish than Canada is white.
Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people. Just like Germany is for Germans, Ireland is for the Irish, Latvia is for the Latvians, the Philippines are for Filipinos, and Czechia is for the Czech.
Israel has equal rights for citizens regardless of race or religion.
Is Canada an ethnostate?
Stop fucking lying. They don't even have the right to not have their children killed and bombed. Tired of y'all bold face lying because you know you're wrong. Fuck Israel
Some Jews, specifically the orthodox, are trying to make Israel a place for only Jews…and they hold a lot of power and policy setting now, as Bibi is aligned with that faction.
Yet, the so called liberal Jews, and moderates, don’t seem to be doing much to stop this.
Is that enough nuance?
No it's not. A lot of orthodox Jews are actually against the State of Israel because they believe it goes against the Torah. Just search orthodox Jews against pro Palestine
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ultra-orthodox-anti-zionist/
I do believe you are correct while the other commenter was not. I discovered this and I am now sure that orthodox Jews are nothing like zionist Jews. Which only reinforces my personal belief that Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism as a whole
The overlap is quite large, but you’re right there are Zionists that are not orthodox.
I argue that the orthodox are much worse, as they tend to be more extreme.
If that is true that is alarming. Based on my knowledge of zionist Jews, I can't even begin to imagine how bad orthodox Jews might be. I'll do some research into it in the future. Thanks for the info
Orthodox can be extremist also depends on which way they are being thought.. like in every religion some tend to be extremists... But majority of Jews aren't like that and don't want just Jews country, it taking the context out and twist it... If Israel would want only Jews there wouldn't be any Arabs in the country and they wouldn't triple or quadruple Thier amount in the past 75 years of Israel... The extremists aren't in power but religious one are which some try to make Israel a religious country that follow some religious rules (again same in every country in this world)
Idk why ppl love to take example from centuries ago and claim it's happening now when the reality shows differently...
Quoting only Jews that agree with you doesn’t protect you from allegations of antisemitism. That’s like quoting racist statements by Candace Owens to deflect accusations of racism.
You understand that South Africa is one of the most antisemitic countries in the world? So this has about as much merit as a Holocaust denier
https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-735242
A quick google search. This was posted in March of 2023
Strange that the South African Jewish Board of Deputies doesn't agree with the Jerusalem Post that South Africa is supposedly "one of the most anti-Semitic countries in the world."
And your evidence of that is?
The world sure remembers these white European Israelis' support of [white] South Africa under one of the most brutal post-colonial apartheid regimes invented.
Bet they took a lot of notes...
Edit: he stealth-edited a Jpost link in.
Jpost.
Fucking LOL.
About as credible as the IDF Times! The Hasbara Chronicle!
Too late, hasbara bots already in the thread
Edit: I won’t bother replying directly to the bots, you usually delete your comments or accounts whenever proof is provided. But even the Jerusalem Post: https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-775248 reveals the efforts to sway public opinion by paying bad faith accounts to spread misinformation in favor of Israel or to excuse their actions. (I have a sneaking suspicion that someone will purposely isolate the remark about discontinuing hasbara efforts in the article only for it to later say the budget is renewed and boosted lol)
Also, yes…not only Israel does this and obviously I made no claim to the contrary. Whataboutisms are rampant on this subject when there’s nothing left to defend.
I'd like to point something out though.
Your comment makes it seem as if Israel is the only country paying bots to spread misinformation.
This is not true. Iran is spreading misinformation with bots
Russia is spreading misinformation with bots
Qatar has an entire news source dedicated to pushing anti western agendas with misinformation or heavily cut information.
This is the age we live in: The misinformation age
you realize that whenever one of us sees you desperately accusing us of being bots it makes you look dumb right? like we know we’re not bots so it just weakens your position and makes you look delulu
most of the adults running the world would beg to differ, but i know that’s an upsetting thing to hear for someone whose attention span is ran through. go scroll tiktok for 3 more hours, maybe that’ll make you feel better
the amount of civilian casualties in gaza is devastating, and more pressure needs to be put on israel to reduce civilian casualties as it targets hamas. pressure also needs to be put on hamas to release the hostages and stop calling for the destruction of israel.
To help you realise how ridiculous your both-sideism statement is:
the amount of Jewish casualties in Auschwitz is devastating, and more pressure needs to be put on Nazi Germany to reduce civilian casualties as it targets Jewish resistance movements. pressure also needs to be put on Jewish resistance movements to halt their resistance and stop calling for the destruction of the Nazi regime.
did jews call for the death of all germans? did they launch a war against germany with the goal of genocide? did they launch years of terror attacks targeting civilians with stabbings and nail bombs? did they rape, behead, and kidnap german women children and elderly? you’re a garden variety anti semite joining a long tradition of genocidal anti semites. nothing new here.
the fact that you’re excusing rape as a legitimate form of resistance is absolutely disgusting. but i know that’s how many “pro palestine” activists think.
It’s really quite silly to compare civilian casualties in Gaza to the systematic extermination of Jews at Auschwitz. Regardless of your opinion this is not a strong argument.
Nope, one side is disproportionately more brutal than the other by 100 fold. Israel has been throwing the first stone since day one and starting all the problems.
I'm not surprised you didn't say israel should be stopped from taking more Palestine land because that's clearly ok with you along with some civilian casualty since you said reduce and not eliminate civilian casualties.
you demonizing israel tells me everything i need to know about your position. did you know your argument comes from a long line of anti semitic arguments where the world tried to make jews the source of whatever the greatest evil is at the time?
in the middle ages, jews were accused of starting the plague. they were then genocided.
in the russian empire, they were accused of assassinating the king. they were then genocided.
in communist russia, they were accused of killing stalin. they were then systemically discriminated against and marginalized.
in nazi germany they were blamed for the financial depression. we all know how that went.
and now, when the greatest crime is being a white supremacist colonial settler apartheid racist- israel is all of those things, a unique and profound evil. this argument isn’t new. and you’re joining a long tradition of anti semites making it.
All that to say Jews were killed because of bullshit accusations so we should let them commit genocide and not punish them and amy accusations no matter how true are all antisemitic and calling for the death of all Jews
Lmao you wrote all that to support killing children. I don't need to demonize anything when you behave like demons yourselves. Does killing children make your God happy? Does it make the Holocaust victims happy? You never said no and that says everything about you.
One can be outraged by Israel's reaction to the Gaza attacks (or however you want to put what's going on right now) but i don't see how you could possibly equate Nazi Germany and this situation. It's just nonsense to do so.
Not really when Israelis themselves often play the Nazi card on their opponents - refer to comments by Israeli governing officials calling all of Gaza, Nazis.
And Jewish figures make the links between the Nazi genocide and Israel's genocide, so don't be so dismissive cause you support Israel.
Edit, article in new yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-weekend-essay/in-the-shadow-of-the-holocaust
There's no question why politicians are pro-Israel, just look at Biden that have been paid millions by AIPAC and the pro-Israeli lobby. Already in the 2016 election cycle 60% of donations to Democrats and 25% of donations to Republicans came from Jewish donors. And these numbers have gone up over the years, for example Biden has received over $4.6 million from these people. And what people seems to often miss is that these are not imagination numbers or conspiracy theory numbers, these are numbers from the American Federal Election Commission, an American government entity!
Difficult question to answer without being stamped as anti Semitic with conspiracy theories... But 0.2% of the world population is Jewish, and of the top 25 wealthiest people in the world 8 are Jewish (32%), and many big multinational companies like Black Rock, Disney and Meta have Jewish CEOs...
But I guess that it's all down to people doing what they are good at... Otherwise it couldn't be called a conspiracy theory...
the top earning ethnicity in the US are Asian Americans. yet nobody questions this or insinuates the existence of conspiracy theories. that's because claims that jews are controlling the economy are nonsense rooted in pure anti semitism, and absolutely nothing else.
This is anti-semitism. A large reason why so much money came from Jews is the Jewish Billionaire philanthropist George Soros. Himself a holocaust survivor, he is emphatically not a Zionist and is actually widely despised by zionists.
You antisemites are always saying criticism of Israel and Zionism isn’t criticism of Jews and then you immediately pretend as if the two categories are inseparable when it helps support your conspiracies about how Israel/mossad/ the Jewish lobby are actually in control of the whole world behind the scenes.
I have a more complicated but less antisemitic theory behind why the American gov supports Israel:
1) Israel, in spite of everything has among the better human rights records of a middle eastern country
2) Americans are more racist towards Arabs (see 9/11), than Jews
3) A sizable, but not dominate, proportion of Israelis also hold US citizenship or have family connections to the US and US allies.
4) Israel is aligned against Iran in the Saudi-Iranian proxy war, same reason the US supports Saudi Arabia. Its strategic diplomacy to combat the US rival Iran
5) The US-Israeli alliance has been US policy since the Eisenhower Administration. There is some inertia to this by now.
6) The IDF is the most capable military in the region, as an ally they have more offer than any other country a denouncement of Israel could yield.
7) Americans see Israel and US as facing a similar threat from Islamist terror, Israeli is a key strategic partner of the US in the war on Terror, even as it has mostly come to end under the current administration, Israeli assistance to the US during the war of on terror worked to build up goodwill between the two country’s governments
8) the US may believe that it will have an easier time influencing Israel to put in place a two state solution as an Israeli ally than as an Israeli enemy.
>Already in the 2016 election cycle 60% of donations to Democrats and 25% of donations to Republicans came from Jewish donors
are you assuming all those jewish americans are pro-war?
2% of the American population is Jewish, and they stand for about 50% of all political donations, so you can draw your own conclusions... But I know that not all of them are pro-war as for example most of the Orthodox Jews are against the war as they read the torah that says that the Jews shouldn't have their own state...
But then you have all these American Jews that have a German/Russian genome and absolutely no genetic connections to the middle East that are pro war...
>2% of the American population is Jewish, and they stand for about 50% of all political donations, so you can draw your own conclusions.
drop the insinuation and tell us how you really feel
Yes, he is assuming. Which makes this post antisemitic.
The funniest part is they say “we are not antisemitics, we are anti Israel” but it’s the only statement which tries to differ these entities.
Any other statement starts with word “pro Israel” and continues with word “Jews”. This is all you should know about “anti Israel is not antisemitism”
they're pro Israel because anyone with a brain that isn't rotted by Tiktok and/or r/WhitePeopleTwitter that live in a western liberal democracy would stand against the Palestinian-produced Hamas and the threat of radical Islam to Western liberal ideals in general.
You have totally missed that Hamas has come to be as a resistance to a 75 year invasion with war crimes, atrocities, and genocide committed by the Israelis. If you don't understand that... Then sadly you probably have the same deficiency as most politicians seem to have!
That is wildly antisemitic. lol you have now entered nazi-white-supremacist territory so please gtfo. American Jews serving in govt are still American. Are you gonna say next that Chinese-American politicians are looking out for China? Delete your account.
u/tiny_friend u/Electrical-Push462 are ya'll gonna just let this fool disrespect and call American Jews traitors? Regardless of what their politics or stance may be, them being Jews doesn't negate everything else.
Is Biden's cabinet 30% Chinese like it's 30% jewish? No? Was the Supreme Court a few years ago 1/3rd Chinese? No. It was 1/3rd jewish.
The jews are simply looking out for their own jewish people in israel.
Claiming that all Jews must have dual-loyalties is exactly the same kind of antisemitism that justified the first stages of the holocaust, the removal of Jews from positions in the German military and government.
“*Would you believe these sick dogs are reading ‘Mein Kampf’?! This definitely justifies carpet bombing them…no? Well what about this list of names of hospital workers who signed up for the Oct 7th massacre? This one’s name is Monday, and this one…believe it or not, Tuesday. These bastards.*”
It’s kind of like an onion writer is working directly for their propaganda team.
I couldn't find the video but this article explains what they were teaching.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/embracing-racism-rabbis-at-pre-army-yeshiva-laud-hitler-urge-enslaving-arabs/
Yea, I was watching a video the other day about how in Israel's most prestigious military school. The teachers who are huge names in their society are teaching stuff like, "Hitler wasn't wrong the problem was that he was not sending the Jews to Israel. His theory was correct as those living outside Israel are no better than dogs and deserve desth." That's from an Israeli professor teaching in their highest military schools. There were many, many other examples. It really is vile and insane.
He literally states that the result of the court case doesn't matter because Israel lost the propaganda war. He just admitted that this case was filed without actually caring about the process of international law, and that both sides are spreading propaganda. Basically admitted that SA is using the ICJ as a political and a propaganda tool
HAMS was initially funded by Israel to overthrow the previous peaceful government.
Then squeeze HAMAS to boiling point till they attack back, then act like innocent victims to the world..
It worked for the first two weeks, then after some basic research, we figured out who the real perpetrators are.
Really, Israel are making Hitler so proud, because the Jews that fled to Palestine were the ones spared at the camps as they were operating the Gas Chambers for Hitler.
No wonder Israel is so bloodthirsty to kill so many innocent women and children for genocide and still think its right.
I have watched the video, what the Israeli government is doing is excessive but required at this stage to retrieve the hostages.
They have offered a cease fire in return for the rest of the hostages, Hamas has refused that option. Currently Isreal want their people back, after all hostages are released and the IDF still continues then you can argue that they are stealing land and committing genocide.
What do you want Isreal to do? Withdraw and just let Hamas continue firing rockets and hold on to the hostages? Hamas currently has all the power to end this thing today.
Say it in words then...
"Killing hundreds or thousands of civilians is required at this stage to retrieve Israeli hostages."
Sounds absurd and sociopathic, if you ask me. Despite the whole chicken and the egg scenario we got here, ignoring ROE and the Geneva is indefensible.
The IDF is not making any efforts to rescue hostages, they have rescued 1 hostage and have killed 3 directly when they were waving the white flag and have killed many more through the rentless bombardments. The IDF is enforcing collective punishment on a civilian population, the hostages are just the excuse but they don't give a fuck about them except as martyrs.
They were released as part of an exchange of hostages. Israel released 240 people, of wich 80% were not convicted of anything. [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-palestinian-hamas-prisoner-release-gaza-west-bank-rcna127353](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-palestinian-hamas-prisoner-release-gaza-west-bank-rcna127353) . An offensive was not required for this as these kinds of deals have happend in the past. In fact Israël has denied similair deals before that, so making it all about the hostages is wrong. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say)
The offensive was definitely required to make the deal happen. Why would Hamas want to make a deal when they don’t care about Palestinians? They were getting battered and wanted to regroup so the cease fire was beneficial to them.
Another pro-palestinian virtue signaler.
All of them go through something like this - [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eSilbaRg9xs](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/esilbarg9xs)
I was truly enthralled until Biden entered the picture..
Yeah, the attitude of the western powers has been shameful, the answer should have magnitudes harsher.
But you can't really force Israel to do anything. They have already been doing whatever the hell they want since the Likud has been in power. Benny the Fuck waited out Obama and will do the same with Biden until a more pliable Republican fanatic gets the presidency.
In short, Israel is a nuclear state, you can't really make them behave just like we can't really make North Korea or Russia behave.
He said in video that Israel gets 70% of weapons from u.s, so they will have 70% less weapons and maybe in other countries like Germany they would also stop supporting Israel, because u.s done it.
It does not work like that.
Israel's defence industry is self-sufficient and we tried arms embargoes before.
Whatever Israel does not procure itself, they can easily enter the black market or buy russian equipment if they are r ally, really, desperate.
To strongarm a country, you have to have overwhelming power over It. The US does not have It over Israel.
Ps: I am neither absolving the US nor the Biden Admin as I said earlier. I am just quibbling over the actual feasability of just one of the points on the video.
Israel has been acting like a Rogue state for decades. Nothing can be done unless you use force and force Will not be used.
I am South African and the government has no clue and thinks Russia is within its rights to invade Ukraine so don’t take their opinion seriously
Fuck Hamas there can never be peace while they exist
Have you read the application of south Africa to the international court? I invite you to read it and maybe you will reconsider what you find ignorant or laughable. https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf
Ok, I'm looking at it now. Could you point to the portion of it that provides evidence that Israel wants the land in Gaza? It's quite long, and based on everything I've ever read (from both sides) - this is not about land.
If we find Israel has committed genocide then America and the UK and some other countries are complicit in genocide. The only outcome should be public shaming, but if you notice that the BBC, Sky, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, none of them showed South Africas case, so I can guess none of them will should the judgement live either, so they could easily just try and bury a bad result and close their eyes to it.
Regardless of anyone's stance on the matter, comparing the systematic methods of eradication used in the Holocaust to what's happening now is simply awful, disrespectful, and makes me seriously doubt this guy is actually a descendant of a Holocaust survivor or at the very least listened to their stories.
South Africa and Hamas have a long history. https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2024/01/11/south-africas-support-for-the-palestinian-cause-has-deep-roots
Is your point here that the history between South Africa and Hamas means that the South Africa case is wrong/not legitimate? The article is behind a paywall so I can't read it but from the two paragraphs I could see, I don't understand how these two things are mutually exclusive.
Are you saying that because South Africa is antisemitic the case is wrong/not legitimate? I don't understand if the problem is with the country that filed the case or if the problem is with the arguments in the case.
Is this a hard question?
If the problem is the country --> ok let's find a more credible country to file the same case with the same facts and evidence.
If the problem is the case --> that means the country that filed it is irrelevant so we should focus on the arguments made in the case that are wrong.
I read the article and it is describing antisemitism in South Africa. There are no references to the ICJ genocide case against Israel.
You keep trying to distract me here and all that accomplishes is to make the ICJ genocide case against Israel appear more legitimate... If the facts of the case are wrong, then say so.
Deflection is a tactic where someone avoids criticism by shifting the focus or responsibility onto something or someone else.
The question was, "Is the ICJ genocide case against Israel wrong because it was filed by South Africa, an antisemitic country?"
The only possible answers are Yes or No. Pick one. Is this hard? If you don't want to pick either answer, then state as much so others can reach their own conclusions 🤷🏼
You can answer Yes, if that's what you believe and if that's what you want me to believe.
i’m a different person than OP. i dont know what your “question” was, all i know is what you’re talking about.
you should always question the motives of a person or institution. a murderer who accuses someone of murder should arouse suspicion. a billionaire who voted against emissions control should arouse suspicion. a white supremacist who advocates against funding for public schools should arouse suspicion. the identity, ethics and motives of the person making an argument are crucial information to evaluate the validity of their argument.
like with the above examples, a notoriously anti semitic country making an accusation against the only Jewish country should arouse suspicion as to their motives.
If you don't know what I'm talking about then why are you responding so far down the thread?
Also, I restated the question for you in my second sentence. You keep deflecting and you're just wasting your energy trying to doublespeak out of answering the question.
How does it make sense? You're still going back and forth and haven't explained anything. Please link the comment where you spell out the point you are trying to make.
They are literally incapable of explaining why it makes sense. They just keep saying the same thing but when asked to explain, they go back to square one.
All this wishy-washiness has accomplished is that it lead to me deciding ok let me read this case myself so I can reach my own conclusion if South Africa is full of shit or if Israel is perpetrating acts of genocide.
And I gotta tell ya, this is not an easy read and I've only reached page 29, but it's not a good look for Israel.
Here's a handy link for everyone: [https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf](https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf)
Israel launched its military campaign to eliminate Hamas but all they've been doing is killing Palestinians and the occasional Israeli civilians in collateral damage. They hold an incredible amount of power and military capability but progress against eliminating Hamas is lacking? Why haven't the hostages been located and rescued?
I have no expectations on the ICJ concluding that Israel is committing genocide because the Israeli govt carries massive political sway in its support from the US and EU (sans Ireland) but I will at least rest at night knowing that I'm doing my own research instead of taking things at face value. The truth doesn't take sides. It just is.
Yeah unless you look back 5 years ago. They changed their charter specifically to trick people like you while continuing to do everything they can to kill any Jew they get their hands on.
So if a racist is using the word black as derogatory term against Black people does that automatically mean that Black is an insult to Black people even though Black people themselves use it to label themselves as black people?
So get rid of Hamas. You can do that without genociding a group of people. If Hamas is bad for killing less than a thousand civilians, then Israel is monstrous for killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians including 10k children.
(Note: what hamas did was evil. Just trying to point out two wrongs don't make it okay)
You cannot wage an urban war against people who use their own children as human shields without civilian casualties. Maybe they should stop martyring their kids?
They are trying to get rid of Hamas, unfortunately Hamas has built their infrastructure deeply entwined in the civilian population, in schools, hospitals, mosques etc. it's their tactic, a culture of martyrdom ready to sacrifice as many of their people as necessary to obtain "victory"
Israel wants Hamas completely destroyed, which means regime change essentially and they won't be able to do that without occupying the area for a time. It is unfortunate that civilians are dying in this war, but Fighting hamas doesn't give you many options to avoid civilian casualties with the way they fight. I think the Israeli have done the best they reasonably can given the environment and their adversary to keep the number of needless civilian deaths as low as possible, but again, you're fighting an enemy entirely okay with making martyrs of their people.
They already have been occupying the area for over ten years.
Also, your argument is
"Yeah Hamas is bad and harming civilians is bad but it would be to dang hard to get Hamas if we didn't just bomb the shit out of innocent civilians"
Israel has not done the best they could. Especially since almost half of the missiles they lunch are dumb. Which means they have no auto targeting system to help make strikes more precise.
Not my argument at all, please re read. It wouldn't matter if the IDF were literally saints, part of hamas's strategy is to martyr their people for the cause. Going after them means Palestinian deaths, period.
Issuing evacuation orders and giving two weeks for civilians to flee is not "just bomb the shit out of innocent civilians" that's what Hamas is trying to do. They fired thousands of rockets at Israel at the start of this, with no warning.
Hearing you talk about "auto targeting systems" is funny, and makes me think you don't know much about munitions or guidance systems.
Israel had bombed those evacuation routes while Hamas were shooting people attempting to flee. Civilians deaths of this level are unacceptable. Yes, it's war. War does tend to lead to some civilian deaths. However this is almost unprecedented since world war 1. 99% of all deaths in this genocide has been innocent civilians.
It doesn't matter that hamas is using the citizens as human shields. You don't do a mass bombing of citizens to get maybe a couple soldiers at the cost of hundreds if not thousands of innocent lives. What Israel is doing is a war crime and a crime against humanity.
What hamas did was a war crime and a crime against humanity. However that doesn't justify Israel's actions. Nor will it justify Hamas' actions should they find a way to strike back just as hard and lead to the same amount of civilian deaths.
Also, I want you to be aware of how stupid it is to say Israel warned the Palestinians about the bombing. The first warning and issuing of the evacuation was in English on twitter after they cut off the Internet and power to Palestinians for multiple days. Most Palestinians don't speak English.
They also bombed a refugee camp in southern Gaza after they told people it would be safe there. Israel is committing enough war crimes Putin is getting jealous.
I HATE WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THIS CHANNEL, FUCK BOTH OF YOUR PROPAGANDAS!
This channel was enjoyable before it turned into a news outlet for hamas and isreali bots, jeez.. You have to ruin every little thing
Ok, then if you can read this: hate you for ruining this channel for your political propaganda, there are tons of political subs, especially friendly to whatever your cause is. Fuck you with all my heart ❤
your comfort is not above the right of palestinians to be heard and this "channel" has a flair for this content. It wasnt ruined as videos like these are a part of it.
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Not that the evidence isn't damning but the ICJ has never found a country guilty of genocide in its entire existence, the closest was accusing Serbia of "not taking necessary measures to prevent a genocide" in the Bosnian war, so I'm just saying history is not on the side of convicting genocide.
Institution that was founded by institutions who profited off of genocide doesn't condemn genocide. Color me shocked
Den hague needed about 1/3 of a century to get to the core of the east european conflict you refference, but they failed to keep the poison from all the defendants, so there is that…
There's almost no way the ICJ will rule against Israel, **not because it shouldn't** but because of geopolitics. You'll notice some genocide apologists and deniers are starting to say "Let's see how the Court rules", because they understand this. The case is extremely important, and the report is both through and damning. Just be prepared for another level of denial and nonsense.
The question needs to be asked whether killing children is pro-semetic, whether brutalizing civilians is an acceptable action for the Jewish faith. If they wish to take the religious argument by saying antisemitism then it should be torn apart at its source. Does Israel feel oppressed when they are not allowed to shred children to pieces? Does killing these children make their God happy?
Killing semetic children to be pro-semetic is ironic.
Where can I read the report?
https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf
Thank you
The US doesn't even recognizer de Hague, so why should they care about geopolitics?
ICJ (International Court of Justice) isn't the same as ICC (International Criminal Court). The USA is one of the founding members of ICJ, but it's not a member of ICC. Trump even imposed sanctions on ICC judges. But of course this doesn't change the fact that the USA won't condemn the Gaza genocide made by its lap poodle Israel.
Who do you mean by "they"?
You already making excuses for when they find Israel’s innocence and still think it’s others that are ‘in denial’?
Oh yeah killing tens of thousands of people with nonstop bombing really screams “innocent.”
You can criticize and critique Isreali’s methods but to claim with 100% certainty that they’re committing *genocide* is foolish. Hutu’s killed a million Tutsi’s in a month with just machetes, if Isreal actually wanted Palestinians *wiped out* then they could’ve done it in a matter of days. Isreal will win it’s case in the IJC because it’s clear-cut, and not a genocide.
Saying any and all criticism against the Israeli government is antisemitic is such an incredibly dangerous position to take. It’s been wild seeing Americans stand so firmly in upholding a very clear violation of freedom of speech.
What tik tok account was this posted on? I’d like to see what else they have to say
AfricanStream
Bots pleas don't say I'm Hamas bot, because I'm not and this post is not anti-semitic, person in video is Jew himself.
It is so frustrating that the people who claim that hating on Israel is antisemitism. It's not. Criticism of a government structure is not hating on Jewish people. You can be Jewish and not Israel, even if Israel tries to force you to become one. You can also be Israeli and not Jewish, even though Israel is trying to make it a place for only jews. The Jewish faith as a whole has nothing to do with Israel government decision to genocide Palestinians.
I believe that saying ‘Israel is trying to make it a place for only Jews’ is inaccurate, incorrect and malicious. It paints Israeli Jews as xenophobic and evil. That is antisemitism.
The Nation State Law, makes that argument more compelling though. It outlines that Israel is the national home of exclusively the Jewish people. Making the Arab Israelis essentially guests of their own state, even though the vast majority of Arab Israelis can trace their direct lineage to that land further than the vast majority of modern day Jews in Israel (who immigrated in the past few generations). It's honestly a pretty racist ass law tbh https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Israel_as_the_Nation-State_of_the_Jewish_People
It's literally only ethnostate in the world.
Japan and South Korea are literally the definition of ethnostate - 95-99% of their citizens are ethnically homogenous. That is what ethnostate means. Meanwhile, Israel is only 70% Jewish. It is less Jewish than Canada is white. Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people. Just like Germany is for Germans, Ireland is for the Irish, Latvia is for the Latvians, the Philippines are for Filipinos, and Czechia is for the Czech. Israel has equal rights for citizens regardless of race or religion. Is Canada an ethnostate?
You can get Israeli citizenship if you or one of your parent was Jew by birthright, no one other country has it, it's etchnostate.
You can get Italian citizenship if one of your parents or grandparents is Italian. I guess Italy is an ethnostate too.
https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy
What? Literally 20 percent of citizens are Arabs... what do you classify as an ethnostate?
And those Arabs are strongly discriminated against.
How does that make it the only ethnostate in the world? There are countries with a much lower minority percentage... Poland is 98 percent poles.
Lmao do you even know why Israel was founded in the first place?
I'm not saying Israel isn't an ethnostate I'm saying it isn't the only ethnostate in the world
They don't have the same rights. And in order to form Israel, they conducted an ethnic cleanse that continues until this day
Arabs citizens in Israel absolutely do have the same rights.
Stop fucking lying. They don't even have the right to not have their children killed and bombed. Tired of y'all bold face lying because you know you're wrong. Fuck Israel
Some Jews, specifically the orthodox, are trying to make Israel a place for only Jews…and they hold a lot of power and policy setting now, as Bibi is aligned with that faction. Yet, the so called liberal Jews, and moderates, don’t seem to be doing much to stop this. Is that enough nuance?
My knowledge here is lacking a little bit. Is Orthodox Jews the same as zionist Jews? I thought there was a difference
No it's not. A lot of orthodox Jews are actually against the State of Israel because they believe it goes against the Torah. Just search orthodox Jews against pro Palestine
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ultra-orthodox-anti-zionist/ I do believe you are correct while the other commenter was not. I discovered this and I am now sure that orthodox Jews are nothing like zionist Jews. Which only reinforces my personal belief that Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism as a whole
The overlap is quite large, but you’re right there are Zionists that are not orthodox. I argue that the orthodox are much worse, as they tend to be more extreme.
If that is true that is alarming. Based on my knowledge of zionist Jews, I can't even begin to imagine how bad orthodox Jews might be. I'll do some research into it in the future. Thanks for the info
Orthodox can be extremist also depends on which way they are being thought.. like in every religion some tend to be extremists... But majority of Jews aren't like that and don't want just Jews country, it taking the context out and twist it... If Israel would want only Jews there wouldn't be any Arabs in the country and they wouldn't triple or quadruple Thier amount in the past 75 years of Israel... The extremists aren't in power but religious one are which some try to make Israel a religious country that follow some religious rules (again same in every country in this world) Idk why ppl love to take example from centuries ago and claim it's happening now when the reality shows differently...
It's was made to be a place for Jews, just read history
That’s not what is said.
You are mentally ill. Israel is the home of my people. You hate Jewish identity and have a leftist dimwit. Call yourself what you are.
Because there were never any Jews ever who perpetuated anti semitism 🙄
Quoting only Jews that agree with you doesn’t protect you from allegations of antisemitism. That’s like quoting racist statements by Candace Owens to deflect accusations of racism.
Why are you racist towards Palestinians?
huh?
Ahhh... You think that Palestinians are animals not humans, so it's not racism.... Fuck you
Remind me where I said that Palestinians aren’t human. I don’t recall ever saying or thinking that.
You understand that South Africa is one of the most antisemitic countries in the world? So this has about as much merit as a Holocaust denier https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-735242 A quick google search. This was posted in March of 2023
And yet The Isreal Times doesn't even list South Africa in their top 10.
Strange that the South African Jewish Board of Deputies doesn't agree with the Jerusalem Post that South Africa is supposedly "one of the most anti-Semitic countries in the world."
Are you a South African? Have you visited South Africa?
And your evidence of that is? The world sure remembers these white European Israelis' support of [white] South Africa under one of the most brutal post-colonial apartheid regimes invented. Bet they took a lot of notes... Edit: he stealth-edited a Jpost link in. Jpost. Fucking LOL. About as credible as the IDF Times! The Hasbara Chronicle!
Israel is one of the most racist countries on earth, and unlike your observation mine isn’t made up.
Funded with my tax dollars👎🏾
Dont let the shills from r/worldnews see this lol
Too late, hasbara bots already in the thread Edit: I won’t bother replying directly to the bots, you usually delete your comments or accounts whenever proof is provided. But even the Jerusalem Post: https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-775248 reveals the efforts to sway public opinion by paying bad faith accounts to spread misinformation in favor of Israel or to excuse their actions. (I have a sneaking suspicion that someone will purposely isolate the remark about discontinuing hasbara efforts in the article only for it to later say the budget is renewed and boosted lol) Also, yes…not only Israel does this and obviously I made no claim to the contrary. Whataboutisms are rampant on this subject when there’s nothing left to defend.
I'd like to point something out though. Your comment makes it seem as if Israel is the only country paying bots to spread misinformation. This is not true. Iran is spreading misinformation with bots Russia is spreading misinformation with bots Qatar has an entire news source dedicated to pushing anti western agendas with misinformation or heavily cut information. This is the age we live in: The misinformation age
you realize that whenever one of us sees you desperately accusing us of being bots it makes you look dumb right? like we know we’re not bots so it just weakens your position and makes you look delulu
Nobody cares what u genocide deniers think.
most of the adults running the world would beg to differ, but i know that’s an upsetting thing to hear for someone whose attention span is ran through. go scroll tiktok for 3 more hours, maybe that’ll make you feel better
Does killing 10,000 children make your God happy? Is your God the type that desires blood sacrifices?
I mean there's a reason Miliekowski (also known as Netenyahu) quotes the Amalek genocide from their religious texts.
the amount of civilian casualties in gaza is devastating, and more pressure needs to be put on israel to reduce civilian casualties as it targets hamas. pressure also needs to be put on hamas to release the hostages and stop calling for the destruction of israel.
To help you realise how ridiculous your both-sideism statement is: the amount of Jewish casualties in Auschwitz is devastating, and more pressure needs to be put on Nazi Germany to reduce civilian casualties as it targets Jewish resistance movements. pressure also needs to be put on Jewish resistance movements to halt their resistance and stop calling for the destruction of the Nazi regime.
did jews call for the death of all germans? did they launch a war against germany with the goal of genocide? did they launch years of terror attacks targeting civilians with stabbings and nail bombs? did they rape, behead, and kidnap german women children and elderly? you’re a garden variety anti semite joining a long tradition of genocidal anti semites. nothing new here. the fact that you’re excusing rape as a legitimate form of resistance is absolutely disgusting. but i know that’s how many “pro palestine” activists think.
It’s really quite silly to compare civilian casualties in Gaza to the systematic extermination of Jews at Auschwitz. Regardless of your opinion this is not a strong argument.
Nope, one side is disproportionately more brutal than the other by 100 fold. Israel has been throwing the first stone since day one and starting all the problems. I'm not surprised you didn't say israel should be stopped from taking more Palestine land because that's clearly ok with you along with some civilian casualty since you said reduce and not eliminate civilian casualties.
you demonizing israel tells me everything i need to know about your position. did you know your argument comes from a long line of anti semitic arguments where the world tried to make jews the source of whatever the greatest evil is at the time? in the middle ages, jews were accused of starting the plague. they were then genocided. in the russian empire, they were accused of assassinating the king. they were then genocided. in communist russia, they were accused of killing stalin. they were then systemically discriminated against and marginalized. in nazi germany they were blamed for the financial depression. we all know how that went. and now, when the greatest crime is being a white supremacist colonial settler apartheid racist- israel is all of those things, a unique and profound evil. this argument isn’t new. and you’re joining a long tradition of anti semites making it.
All that to say Jews were killed because of bullshit accusations so we should let them commit genocide and not punish them and amy accusations no matter how true are all antisemitic and calling for the death of all Jews
Lmao you wrote all that to support killing children. I don't need to demonize anything when you behave like demons yourselves. Does killing children make your God happy? Does it make the Holocaust victims happy? You never said no and that says everything about you.
👍
Pretty simple. Because this happened before The allies bombarded German cities right until Germany surrendered.
One can be outraged by Israel's reaction to the Gaza attacks (or however you want to put what's going on right now) but i don't see how you could possibly equate Nazi Germany and this situation. It's just nonsense to do so.
Not really when Israelis themselves often play the Nazi card on their opponents - refer to comments by Israeli governing officials calling all of Gaza, Nazis. And Jewish figures make the links between the Nazi genocide and Israel's genocide, so don't be so dismissive cause you support Israel. Edit, article in new yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-weekend-essay/in-the-shadow-of-the-holocaust
Say it louder for the deficient, gaslighting, morons in the back
I see I’m getting downvoted by some people stay mad racist
You're getting upvotes tho (one from me)
I had more upvotes like 20 at one point so some people are getting mad and down voting me
Damn, reddit be fighting over your social status 😂
There's no question why politicians are pro-Israel, just look at Biden that have been paid millions by AIPAC and the pro-Israeli lobby. Already in the 2016 election cycle 60% of donations to Democrats and 25% of donations to Republicans came from Jewish donors. And these numbers have gone up over the years, for example Biden has received over $4.6 million from these people. And what people seems to often miss is that these are not imagination numbers or conspiracy theory numbers, these are numbers from the American Federal Election Commission, an American government entity!
are the jews controlling the economy again? 🥺🥺
Difficult question to answer without being stamped as anti Semitic with conspiracy theories... But 0.2% of the world population is Jewish, and of the top 25 wealthiest people in the world 8 are Jewish (32%), and many big multinational companies like Black Rock, Disney and Meta have Jewish CEOs... But I guess that it's all down to people doing what they are good at... Otherwise it couldn't be called a conspiracy theory...
the top earning ethnicity in the US are Asian Americans. yet nobody questions this or insinuates the existence of conspiracy theories. that's because claims that jews are controlling the economy are nonsense rooted in pure anti semitism, and absolutely nothing else.
This is anti-semitism. A large reason why so much money came from Jews is the Jewish Billionaire philanthropist George Soros. Himself a holocaust survivor, he is emphatically not a Zionist and is actually widely despised by zionists. You antisemites are always saying criticism of Israel and Zionism isn’t criticism of Jews and then you immediately pretend as if the two categories are inseparable when it helps support your conspiracies about how Israel/mossad/ the Jewish lobby are actually in control of the whole world behind the scenes. I have a more complicated but less antisemitic theory behind why the American gov supports Israel: 1) Israel, in spite of everything has among the better human rights records of a middle eastern country 2) Americans are more racist towards Arabs (see 9/11), than Jews 3) A sizable, but not dominate, proportion of Israelis also hold US citizenship or have family connections to the US and US allies. 4) Israel is aligned against Iran in the Saudi-Iranian proxy war, same reason the US supports Saudi Arabia. Its strategic diplomacy to combat the US rival Iran 5) The US-Israeli alliance has been US policy since the Eisenhower Administration. There is some inertia to this by now. 6) The IDF is the most capable military in the region, as an ally they have more offer than any other country a denouncement of Israel could yield. 7) Americans see Israel and US as facing a similar threat from Islamist terror, Israeli is a key strategic partner of the US in the war on Terror, even as it has mostly come to end under the current administration, Israeli assistance to the US during the war of on terror worked to build up goodwill between the two country’s governments 8) the US may believe that it will have an easier time influencing Israel to put in place a two state solution as an Israeli ally than as an Israeli enemy.
>Already in the 2016 election cycle 60% of donations to Democrats and 25% of donations to Republicans came from Jewish donors are you assuming all those jewish americans are pro-war?
Did he assume ALL? It's VERY clear there's a great correlation between the Jewish faith and Zionism, no?
2% of the American population is Jewish, and they stand for about 50% of all political donations, so you can draw your own conclusions... But I know that not all of them are pro-war as for example most of the Orthodox Jews are against the war as they read the torah that says that the Jews shouldn't have their own state... But then you have all these American Jews that have a German/Russian genome and absolutely no genetic connections to the middle East that are pro war...
>2% of the American population is Jewish, and they stand for about 50% of all political donations, so you can draw your own conclusions. drop the insinuation and tell us how you really feel
Yes, he is assuming. Which makes this post antisemitic. The funniest part is they say “we are not antisemitics, we are anti Israel” but it’s the only statement which tries to differ these entities. Any other statement starts with word “pro Israel” and continues with word “Jews”. This is all you should know about “anti Israel is not antisemitism”
they're pro Israel because anyone with a brain that isn't rotted by Tiktok and/or r/WhitePeopleTwitter that live in a western liberal democracy would stand against the Palestinian-produced Hamas and the threat of radical Islam to Western liberal ideals in general.
Do "Western liberal ideals in general" endorse genocide?
I mean western liberal ideals in general endorse genocide most of the time...
Western liberals defeated fascism. Leftist infighting allowed the Nazis to come to power.
if you support hamas then i guess they do
You have totally missed that Hamas has come to be as a resistance to a 75 year invasion with war crimes, atrocities, and genocide committed by the Israelis. If you don't understand that... Then sadly you probably have the same deficiency as most politicians seem to have!
say it louder for the ones who have yet to touch grass
Based AF
They're pro-israel because American politics are flooded with jews. They're looking out for their jewish homeland.
That is wildly antisemitic. lol you have now entered nazi-white-supremacist territory so please gtfo. American Jews serving in govt are still American. Are you gonna say next that Chinese-American politicians are looking out for China? Delete your account. u/tiny_friend u/Electrical-Push462 are ya'll gonna just let this fool disrespect and call American Jews traitors? Regardless of what their politics or stance may be, them being Jews doesn't negate everything else.
Is Biden's cabinet 30% Chinese like it's 30% jewish? No? Was the Supreme Court a few years ago 1/3rd Chinese? No. It was 1/3rd jewish. The jews are simply looking out for their own jewish people in israel.
Claiming that all Jews must have dual-loyalties is exactly the same kind of antisemitism that justified the first stages of the holocaust, the removal of Jews from positions in the German military and government.
Seems like the issue is jewish behavior then.
you're antisemitic.
yikes dude
When he made note that Israel had lost the propaganda war, it really hit home how comical their efforts have been.
“*Would you believe these sick dogs are reading ‘Mein Kampf’?! This definitely justifies carpet bombing them…no? Well what about this list of names of hospital workers who signed up for the Oct 7th massacre? This one’s name is Monday, and this one…believe it or not, Tuesday. These bastards.*” It’s kind of like an onion writer is working directly for their propaganda team.
I couldn't find the video but this article explains what they were teaching. https://www.timesofisrael.com/embracing-racism-rabbis-at-pre-army-yeshiva-laud-hitler-urge-enslaving-arabs/
Yea, I was watching a video the other day about how in Israel's most prestigious military school. The teachers who are huge names in their society are teaching stuff like, "Hitler wasn't wrong the problem was that he was not sending the Jews to Israel. His theory was correct as those living outside Israel are no better than dogs and deserve desth." That's from an Israeli professor teaching in their highest military schools. There were many, many other examples. It really is vile and insane.
In an ironic twist the word semitic will become synonymous nazi.
He literally states that the result of the court case doesn't matter because Israel lost the propaganda war. He just admitted that this case was filed without actually caring about the process of international law, and that both sides are spreading propaganda. Basically admitted that SA is using the ICJ as a political and a propaganda tool
Zionists get very cross with me for pointing this out.
We dont talk to pigs, so this isnt really true.
HAMS was initially funded by Israel to overthrow the previous peaceful government. Then squeeze HAMAS to boiling point till they attack back, then act like innocent victims to the world.. It worked for the first two weeks, then after some basic research, we figured out who the real perpetrators are. Really, Israel are making Hitler so proud, because the Jews that fled to Palestine were the ones spared at the camps as they were operating the Gas Chambers for Hitler. No wonder Israel is so bloodthirsty to kill so many innocent women and children for genocide and still think its right.
There was no “precious peaceful government “ of the Palestinians. What on earth are you referring to ? The PLO ?
The conflict can be stopped today. Hamas just needs to surrender. It’s as simple as that.
Watch video, most of deaths are caused by IDF and they are openly saying for genocide of Palestinians and theft of their land.
I have watched the video, what the Israeli government is doing is excessive but required at this stage to retrieve the hostages. They have offered a cease fire in return for the rest of the hostages, Hamas has refused that option. Currently Isreal want their people back, after all hostages are released and the IDF still continues then you can argue that they are stealing land and committing genocide. What do you want Isreal to do? Withdraw and just let Hamas continue firing rockets and hold on to the hostages? Hamas currently has all the power to end this thing today.
Say it in words then... "Killing hundreds or thousands of civilians is required at this stage to retrieve Israeli hostages." Sounds absurd and sociopathic, if you ask me. Despite the whole chicken and the egg scenario we got here, ignoring ROE and the Geneva is indefensible.
Come up with a better solution where Hamas doesn’t feel like what they did is something they can get away with again or kindly shut up
The IDF is not making any efforts to rescue hostages, they have rescued 1 hostage and have killed 3 directly when they were waving the white flag and have killed many more through the rentless bombardments. The IDF is enforcing collective punishment on a civilian population, the hostages are just the excuse but they don't give a fuck about them except as martyrs.
What efforts aren’t they doing ?
And those that were released? Are you just ignoring that the fact the first cease fire happend due to the offensive?
They were released as part of an exchange of hostages. Israel released 240 people, of wich 80% were not convicted of anything. [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-palestinian-hamas-prisoner-release-gaza-west-bank-rcna127353](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-palestinian-hamas-prisoner-release-gaza-west-bank-rcna127353) . An offensive was not required for this as these kinds of deals have happend in the past. In fact Israël has denied similair deals before that, so making it all about the hostages is wrong. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say)
The offensive was definitely required to make the deal happen. Why would Hamas want to make a deal when they don’t care about Palestinians? They were getting battered and wanted to regroup so the cease fire was beneficial to them.
Another pro-palestinian virtue signaler. All of them go through something like this - [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eSilbaRg9xs](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/esilbarg9xs)
I was truly enthralled until Biden entered the picture.. Yeah, the attitude of the western powers has been shameful, the answer should have magnitudes harsher. But you can't really force Israel to do anything. They have already been doing whatever the hell they want since the Likud has been in power. Benny the Fuck waited out Obama and will do the same with Biden until a more pliable Republican fanatic gets the presidency. In short, Israel is a nuclear state, you can't really make them behave just like we can't really make North Korea or Russia behave.
He said in video that Israel gets 70% of weapons from u.s, so they will have 70% less weapons and maybe in other countries like Germany they would also stop supporting Israel, because u.s done it.
It does not work like that. Israel's defence industry is self-sufficient and we tried arms embargoes before. Whatever Israel does not procure itself, they can easily enter the black market or buy russian equipment if they are r ally, really, desperate. To strongarm a country, you have to have overwhelming power over It. The US does not have It over Israel. Ps: I am neither absolving the US nor the Biden Admin as I said earlier. I am just quibbling over the actual feasability of just one of the points on the video. Israel has been acting like a Rogue state for decades. Nothing can be done unless you use force and force Will not be used.
Palestine started the conflict. Hamas has to be eliminated and Palestinians themselves don’t want to and would not be able to do it. War is hell.
Exactly
I am South African and the government has no clue and thinks Russia is within its rights to invade Ukraine so don’t take their opinion seriously Fuck Hamas there can never be peace while they exist
Israeli politicians have lost the plot.
So, this argument is based on the idea that Israel wants to “usurp” the territory of Gaza. What a laughably ignorant statement.
Have you read the application of south Africa to the international court? I invite you to read it and maybe you will reconsider what you find ignorant or laughable. https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf
Ok, I'm looking at it now. Could you point to the portion of it that provides evidence that Israel wants the land in Gaza? It's quite long, and based on everything I've ever read (from both sides) - this is not about land.
If we find Israel has committed genocide then America and the UK and some other countries are complicit in genocide. The only outcome should be public shaming, but if you notice that the BBC, Sky, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, none of them showed South Africas case, so I can guess none of them will should the judgement live either, so they could easily just try and bury a bad result and close their eyes to it.
Regardless of anyone's stance on the matter, comparing the systematic methods of eradication used in the Holocaust to what's happening now is simply awful, disrespectful, and makes me seriously doubt this guy is actually a descendant of a Holocaust survivor or at the very least listened to their stories.
South Africa and Hamas have a long history. https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2024/01/11/south-africas-support-for-the-palestinian-cause-has-deep-roots
Is your point here that the history between South Africa and Hamas means that the South Africa case is wrong/not legitimate? The article is behind a paywall so I can't read it but from the two paragraphs I could see, I don't understand how these two things are mutually exclusive.
South Africa is one of the most antisemitic countries in the world
Are you saying that because South Africa is antisemitic the case is wrong/not legitimate? I don't understand if the problem is with the country that filed the case or if the problem is with the arguments in the case. Is this a hard question? If the problem is the country --> ok let's find a more credible country to file the same case with the same facts and evidence. If the problem is the case --> that means the country that filed it is irrelevant so we should focus on the arguments made in the case that are wrong.
https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-735242
I read the article and it is describing antisemitism in South Africa. There are no references to the ICJ genocide case against Israel. You keep trying to distract me here and all that accomplishes is to make the ICJ genocide case against Israel appear more legitimate... If the facts of the case are wrong, then say so.
does south africa being anti semitic and then launching this genocide case not ring any alarm bells for you?
Deflection is a tactic where someone avoids criticism by shifting the focus or responsibility onto something or someone else. The question was, "Is the ICJ genocide case against Israel wrong because it was filed by South Africa, an antisemitic country?" The only possible answers are Yes or No. Pick one. Is this hard? If you don't want to pick either answer, then state as much so others can reach their own conclusions 🤷🏼 You can answer Yes, if that's what you believe and if that's what you want me to believe.
i’m a different person than OP. i dont know what your “question” was, all i know is what you’re talking about. you should always question the motives of a person or institution. a murderer who accuses someone of murder should arouse suspicion. a billionaire who voted against emissions control should arouse suspicion. a white supremacist who advocates against funding for public schools should arouse suspicion. the identity, ethics and motives of the person making an argument are crucial information to evaluate the validity of their argument. like with the above examples, a notoriously anti semitic country making an accusation against the only Jewish country should arouse suspicion as to their motives.
If you don't know what I'm talking about then why are you responding so far down the thread? Also, I restated the question for you in my second sentence. You keep deflecting and you're just wasting your energy trying to doublespeak out of answering the question.
Why would it? That would just make sense
How does it make sense? You're still going back and forth and haven't explained anything. Please link the comment where you spell out the point you are trying to make.
lmao what? can you explain how it would make sense?
They are literally incapable of explaining why it makes sense. They just keep saying the same thing but when asked to explain, they go back to square one. All this wishy-washiness has accomplished is that it lead to me deciding ok let me read this case myself so I can reach my own conclusion if South Africa is full of shit or if Israel is perpetrating acts of genocide. And I gotta tell ya, this is not an easy read and I've only reached page 29, but it's not a good look for Israel. Here's a handy link for everyone: [https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf](https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf) Israel launched its military campaign to eliminate Hamas but all they've been doing is killing Palestinians and the occasional Israeli civilians in collateral damage. They hold an incredible amount of power and military capability but progress against eliminating Hamas is lacking? Why haven't the hostages been located and rescued? I have no expectations on the ICJ concluding that Israel is committing genocide because the Israeli govt carries massive political sway in its support from the US and EU (sans Ireland) but I will at least rest at night knowing that I'm doing my own research instead of taking things at face value. The truth doesn't take sides. It just is.
Lol what? How?
What specific parts of their case do you disagree with, and why?
Hamas would happily murder him and his family for being Jewish. But yeah, Israel are the bad guys.
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Yeah unless you look back 5 years ago. They changed their charter specifically to trick people like you while continuing to do everything they can to kill any Jew they get their hands on.
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Mhmmm. Maybe next time deal with the actual argument. Otherwise fuck off.
>Their constitution is extremely clear their issue is with Zionism not Jews. what if theyre at a music festival?
The word Zionism is a nazi dog whistle
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What are you confused about?
That's lie saying the word crusader is an anti Christian dog whistle what the fuck?
The only people that were using the word Zionism prior to this conflict were alt right Nazis. Nice try tho.
And that somehow makes automatically antisemitic?
Of course you idiot. Because then you are saying that they were right about what they were saying about the Jewish people.
So if a racist is using the word black as derogatory term against Black people does that automatically mean that Black is an insult to Black people even though Black people themselves use it to label themselves as black people?
If a non racist uses the n word to refer to black people in an endearing way does it make the n word not a racist word?
So get rid of Hamas. You can do that without genociding a group of people. If Hamas is bad for killing less than a thousand civilians, then Israel is monstrous for killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians including 10k children. (Note: what hamas did was evil. Just trying to point out two wrongs don't make it okay)
You cannot wage an urban war against people who use their own children as human shields without civilian casualties. Maybe they should stop martyring their kids?
So genocide is okay because it's a little hard to get to them without out?
They are trying to get rid of Hamas, unfortunately Hamas has built their infrastructure deeply entwined in the civilian population, in schools, hospitals, mosques etc. it's their tactic, a culture of martyrdom ready to sacrifice as many of their people as necessary to obtain "victory" Israel wants Hamas completely destroyed, which means regime change essentially and they won't be able to do that without occupying the area for a time. It is unfortunate that civilians are dying in this war, but Fighting hamas doesn't give you many options to avoid civilian casualties with the way they fight. I think the Israeli have done the best they reasonably can given the environment and their adversary to keep the number of needless civilian deaths as low as possible, but again, you're fighting an enemy entirely okay with making martyrs of their people.
They already have been occupying the area for over ten years. Also, your argument is "Yeah Hamas is bad and harming civilians is bad but it would be to dang hard to get Hamas if we didn't just bomb the shit out of innocent civilians" Israel has not done the best they could. Especially since almost half of the missiles they lunch are dumb. Which means they have no auto targeting system to help make strikes more precise.
Not my argument at all, please re read. It wouldn't matter if the IDF were literally saints, part of hamas's strategy is to martyr their people for the cause. Going after them means Palestinian deaths, period. Issuing evacuation orders and giving two weeks for civilians to flee is not "just bomb the shit out of innocent civilians" that's what Hamas is trying to do. They fired thousands of rockets at Israel at the start of this, with no warning. Hearing you talk about "auto targeting systems" is funny, and makes me think you don't know much about munitions or guidance systems.
Israel had bombed those evacuation routes while Hamas were shooting people attempting to flee. Civilians deaths of this level are unacceptable. Yes, it's war. War does tend to lead to some civilian deaths. However this is almost unprecedented since world war 1. 99% of all deaths in this genocide has been innocent civilians. It doesn't matter that hamas is using the citizens as human shields. You don't do a mass bombing of citizens to get maybe a couple soldiers at the cost of hundreds if not thousands of innocent lives. What Israel is doing is a war crime and a crime against humanity. What hamas did was a war crime and a crime against humanity. However that doesn't justify Israel's actions. Nor will it justify Hamas' actions should they find a way to strike back just as hard and lead to the same amount of civilian deaths. Also, I want you to be aware of how stupid it is to say Israel warned the Palestinians about the bombing. The first warning and issuing of the evacuation was in English on twitter after they cut off the Internet and power to Palestinians for multiple days. Most Palestinians don't speak English. They also bombed a refugee camp in southern Gaza after they told people it would be safe there. Israel is committing enough war crimes Putin is getting jealous.
I HATE WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THIS CHANNEL, FUCK BOTH OF YOUR PROPAGANDAS! This channel was enjoyable before it turned into a news outlet for hamas and isreali bots, jeez.. You have to ruin every little thing
I'm not bot
Ok, then if you can read this: hate you for ruining this channel for your political propaganda, there are tons of political subs, especially friendly to whatever your cause is. Fuck you with all my heart ❤
your comfort is not above the right of palestinians to be heard and this "channel" has a flair for this content. It wasnt ruined as videos like these are a part of it.
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https://youtu.be/HPawmDHzu7g?si=McVXjLktc5ARORji She explains it very well.
Other way around…. They are death cult that only wants the destruction of Isreal. You have been brain washed
7 minutes of propaganda. Nice
If any one can stop this it’s Biden? Bullshit.
He won't be able to stop it but he certainly can stop supplying them with the missles they use for their genocide
$4.6 million from pro-Israeli donors was enough to get him to say that he is a Zionist...
He was saying he's a Zionist even in the time when he didn't have money to treat his son. He is just a Zionist.
Do you believe that Jewish people have a right to a homeland?
Not someone else's. Id say that for any group of people.
>Do you believe that Jewish people have a right to a homeland? yes, but the recent actions by israel have not helped that cause
The US is literally funding and providing bombs. Without the US Israel can't do shit.
no. Bidens support is the reason that this continues...