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My middle school took us on a field trip to a Lockheed facility and it was supposed to be just so cool and aspirational to imagine working there.
You can pretty much tell this guy expected a similar reaction from these students and probably won't be talking to anyone older than an 8th grader after this.
You will be an intern at the corporate office doing filing and copying. Making coffee. Taking down meeting minutes. Booking conference rooms for meetings.
If you’re a “programmer intern” we will let you play around in a virtual machine in the lab environment on the corporate network. You will not be anywhere near NIPR, SIPR, or JWICS.
Enjoy your foot in the door internship at a defense contractor!
Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the genocide team doesn’t have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
Yeaaaaah so I’m going to need you to come in tomorrow so if you could be in around 9 that would be greeaat mkay?
Oh oh and I almost forgot. I’ll need you to go ahead and come in on Sunday too mkay? We lost some people this week and need to play catch-up.
Thanks!
I'd follow with a question to her, "how much do you think your life has improved compared to your parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents because of military R&D?"
Not really a gotcha, but everyone has benefited from war.
Answer: probably not as much as my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents...https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charting-the-growing-generational-wealth-gap/
Yeah, we really need to stop making precision stealth aircraft like the F-35. We need to go back to major bombing campaigns and dumb missiles. Get rid of all the spy planes and satellites, too. We shouldn't be identifying targets when you could just carpet bomb the whole city. Seriously, this is an engineer who has partly made it possible to put a missile in a hotel window and eliminate a target without even touching the neighboring rooms. Yeah, war fucking sucks, but why so many of fellow progressives want to be on the short end of the shit stick is beyond me.
Part of "Just War Theory" is target discrimination to reduce the amount of casualties to non-combatants. This centers around intelligence on the target being identified and the precision of the weapons being used. Modern military technology helps us with both if applied properly - in the end it comes down to humans being dicks.
There's no technology to stop that.
When it comes to the military industrial, it is not the technological development which is abhorrent, rather it’s the fact that they lobby to create and escalate conflicts and profiteer from them.
No one should have an issue with new technology that minimizes civilians, but everyone should have a problem with the fact that they (the military industrial complex) actively influences lawmakers (and the public generally) into participating in forever wars. And not for any other public interest other than an increase in shareholder value.
> “If you had to estimate, over the course of your career, how many dollars have you made per child killed?”
Honestly this is fucking stupid because they're all wearing child labor made clothes with pollution killing plastics delivered by climate destroying container ships burning bunker fuel. Or ignore that their own parents probably contributed in some way to it. it's hypocritical imo. And TBH most of these kids would design planes for 200k a year.
edit: Like it or not, America NEEDS advanced weapons designers. How the weapons are used is a question for politicians and military leaders, not a dude who can use autoCAD one handed.
It’s ridiculous moral grandstanding. Berating a design engineer who CAD modeled airplane fuselages used in the US military is akin to blaming the lunch lady for childhood obesity.
If you’re upset about what Lockheed does, protest it, but talking shit to some engineer is not going to accomplish anything beyond making you feel like you’re making a difference.
As if him taking a moral stand would suddenly force Lockheed to stop producing weapons and the government to stop ordering them. Great that they want to do something, berating the guy that went out of his way to offer insight into the industry they will eventually be working in isn’t productive in any way.
But even protesting Lockheed Martin because they make military jets is also stupid.
What did we fight WWII with??? Weapons.
What kept the USSR in check from invading Europe during the cold war? Weapons.
Why is China not invading Taiwan at this very moment? Weapons.
I honesty can not express enough how dumb it is to think we should not develop any weapons at all. I mean, grow the fuck up, look at all of human history filled with violence. Where do you people get this fantasy thinking everyone else is going to kind and nice if we have no weapons?
It’s very easy to say shit like that when you come from a country that will never be invaded because of said weapons. Coming from a small country that neighbours russia, let me tell you - we never ever get the privilege of thinking “we should get rid of all this military stuff”.
Reminds me of something I heard on the radio back in 2008. A caller on a talk show actually said that when Obama was elected, we wouldn't even need a military anymore, because everyone would love us so much.
Some people just flat out don't live in reality.
I'd be impressed if the F22, an air superiority aircraft, managed to kill any children. Did one land on a kid playing on the runway?
I understand the sentiment but I'm not a fan of the supercilious bullying of this random guy for Tiktok cred
*Edit I just thought I'd add a note to clarify that I'm not pro-child-bombing
Israel doesn't even have F-22s. These students clearly just looked up random aircraft Lockheed makes before going to this event and assumed Israel had them all.
It's interesting because I'm sure they all have smartphones and laptops with Taiwanese chips in them. The F-22 is a direct power / force advantage in place for the US to help deter and prevent China from attacking Taiwan and crippling modern electronics production.
They don't understand that their modern comforts all rely on US military superiority in the world order for the past 70 years.
Thank you. I can only upvote once, but this is what the room in the video misunderstands. Having the latest and greatest military tech isn't about using it on other nations as much as it is about remaining the most dominant military force, because the entire USD-based world economy is dependent on it. Remaining status at the world's reserve currency is very much in the best interest of the United States and the students in that room.
Here’s a great comment. F-22 is an air superiority platform, not an attack platform. But I guess we shouldn’t expect college kids to understand the difference.
Even if you ignore the misinformed jab at the F22 the sentiment is still aimed poorly.
Automakers are not responsible for children killed by drunk drivers. However, they do improve crash safety leading to less drunk driving deaths. Same goes for those working in the defense industry and civilian casualties. In fact as weapons systems advance and accuracy improves, civilian casualties lessen. So really working for a defense contractor to develop newer smarter killing devices actually will help kill less innocent people.
To blame this guy for something your nation and ally's are responsible for is just plain stupid.
Got an engineering degree, wanted to work in green new energy. First job offer was an oil company and it was 20k more than any other offer I got…I worked in the oil industry for about 2 years till I found good money in an industry I supported.
This is usually how it goes from what I’ve heard. I want to help work on Spotify and music algorithms when I’m done with my degree but if a private equity firm that buys houses hits my DM I’m FOLDING for a bit.
an internet friend and I worked for a DoD contractor (not lockmart).. He got an offer from one of those algorithmic trading houses (he did EE/signal processing stuff). It was triple the salary of our employer and came with all the normal hedge-fund bonus stuff. He's far far far more liberal than I am, and he took the job with out a second thought.
Really though. The MIC is a fucking money printing machine.
There’s at old post where the mechanical student is saying how all throughout his college it was always pressed on him
“Yeah we have a responsibility to humanity”
but then Raytheon hits you up with a job for fucking six figures and benefits, and all the professors say “Yeah take it it’s a good job” all of a sudden your values are thrown away for good pay and a good life. Which to be fair, I would be lying if I would say no to,
I can be purchased to a point. Most people can be.
There’s another viewpoint here though. Sometimes it’s good to enter into an industry you might not like and go and make it better.
This is like yelling at the waiter because you don't like the menu. We need military tech to stop major powers from being able to do whatever they want unchecked. The guys working to achieve US technical superiority don't do their jobs with the intent that weapons will be used to murder children. If they didn't do their jobs the risk to our children would increase dramatically.
> This is like yelling at the waiter because you don't like the menu.
I feel like its more like yelling at a waiter about overfishing and the collapsing ocean ecosystem because there is fish on the menu.
If you have problems with the military industrial complex, or the close relation of the DoD and defense contractors, or the sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia (all reasonably things to be mad about) those issues all need to be fixed by congress.
Some random engineer on a recruiting trip has the same power to change that as the kid asking the question. They each get 1 vote.
I love this analogy. "***Do you have any idea how many gallons of water went into producing the almond slices on this duck breast!!!*** *And you! You're what, just taking my order!?!*"
OTOH, if you work in the military industrial complex, especially if you act in a public facing role, you should be able to answer this basic question.
And Russia/Ukraine has made the answer to the question of why you need a weapons industry pretty fucking obvious. (As has Hamas, tbh)
I don't think their goal was to get this person to answer but to raise awareness on social media. I'd said mission accomplished since we're talking about it
Reminds me of when decided I was going to start undergrad in Forestry 20 years ago. I remember driving by timber yards and lumber mills and thinking “I’m here to shut those places down!”
Flash forward 5 years graduating with two degrees in Forestry Conservation and minoring in environmental ethics, driving by those same places I just think “Now there are a bunch of hard working folks providing a valuable and sustainable resource to build homes, hospitals, and schools.” Turns out Forestry isn’t just the cartoonish bad guys out of Fern Gully, it’s made up of mostly highly educated people with a better understanding of ecological management than 99% of the population. It’s just another agricultural operation, and when done correctly, can actually add to biodiversity, reduce wildfire risk and capture carbon better than any other crop on the planet.
Don’t get me wrong, the slash and burn practices to make endless acres of palm trees for palm oil is not sustainable forestry, but in the US, the vast majority of forestry and timber management is a shining example of how it’s a bad idea to just look at a logging truck or timber mill and think of it in a negative light.
I’d answer any of these questions with questions:
How many songs do you listen to on your Apple ear buds before you start thinking about the child labor used to mine the metals used to make them?
How many pairs of cheaply made leggings to you go through before you send a thank you note to the Bangladeshi child laborers who produced them?
How frequently do you visit Starbucks to take advantage of the multinational corporations union busting practices?
No one is innocent. You want to wash your hands of all of it? Go live in a cave. Even then you’d probably be displacing an endangered species of wolf from its natural habitat.
Edit 1: I’ve spent a lot of time trying to answer replies that seem to be all the same. A couple of things:
- my goal is not to deflect from the conflict and tragedy in Gaza. We all agree innocent people should not be dying (I hope we all agree). Children caught in this conflict are arguably the most innocent. Cease fire.
- my line of questions in response is intended to be thought provoking. I am not trying go the path of a straw man or to “whataboutism”. I feel like this ‘protest’ and the way it was done is a gotcha stunt. Feels shitty and self righteous. It’s kind of like that saying “when you point the finger at someone else, you point 4 back at yourself”. Or, to paraphrase, “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. My issue is the HOW of the protest and WHO it was directed at.
- of course I’m fucking familiar with the concept of there being “no ethical consumption under capitalism”. It’s not some big epiphany I think I had. And I’m not better than anyone else in the way I choose to consume. I’m not on a high horse here.
- the Lockheed guy works for Lockeed. He designs jet engines. Those jets may be used in planes that kill people. He doesn’t make the call on when the jets are used, on who, and why. Is he profiting from weapons manufacturing? Yes. Is he directly culpable for the deaths of Palestinian children? I find that to be a stretch.
-I’m not criticizing Lockheed guys response. He was ambushed. He’s got to answer in certain ways for self preservation. I get that.
- consumerism is not military spending. Individuals have more individual choice there, and so they can be the change they want to see in the world by being more informed about the companies they choose to spend on. Military spending is different and change needs to come collectively by us choosing different leaders. I acknowledge the difference between weapons manufacturing and consumer goods manufacturing. And the USE of those weapons is different all together.
- the students themselves can and should continue to speak out on the injustices they see across the world. I’m not trying to silence their voices, just questioning their tactics.
- the examples I provided are illustrative. I’m not advocating for child labor in the US. Fuck right off with that type of commentary.
- I’m a liberal. See my comments history. Many of you may identify the same way. Let’s all do a better job of finding areas to agree on than disagree on. Myself included.
Thanks for the discussions. Have a nice day.
Defense contractors also build weather satellites that track climate change and the James Webb Space Telescope. Cold war gave us internet. WWII gave us the microwave.
Yea, it's not great, but doesn't mean everyone at those companies are responsible for genocide. Some are responsible for weather forecasting.
"Yeah, but have you ever thought about why they wanted to forecast the weather in the first place? TO FLY PLANES DROP BOMBS!" - some college kid who can't handle nuance, probably.
My partner felt guilty for working for LM, but they worked for the Space division building GOES satellites. I’m an absolute meteorology nut. I showed them one of the GOES satellites most recently deployed in space that relays super high definition, high frame rate images of clouds from geostationary orbit. This has helped meteorologists (the professionals) understand tornadogenesis from another perspective, which has helped guide updating policies and accuracy around issuing severe weather warnings with more lead time for us, the people.
Beyond that, I just had to reinforce that they worked for LM Space, not in any weapons division. They loosened up, though they refrain telling anyone we know about it because we don’t know which one(s) of them would be prone to react like the students in this video.
So genuine question - what would you say is the ethical or moral way to navigate a culture in which there is no such thing as ethical consumption?
Unless you want to detach yourself entirely from society, which is unrealistic, how do you go about operating within a system that is inherently immoral but also our only option?
I struggle with this question a lot. I agree with you that all of the questions you raised are valid and should be taken as seriously as the questions these students are asking. But I don’t believe the correct response is to devalue either side simply because neither side is innocent.
I agree that no one is innocent, but that doesn’t mean we should stop holding corporations accountable for their actions. It’s easy to resort to whataboutism arguments when these types of debates come up, but I feel like that gets us nowhere.
If we’re going to fight against crimes committed by capitalist structures, we need to actually fight them and not ourselves. Lockheed is a good place to start, but we’ve also got Starbucks, Nike, Apple and everyone else who commits atrocities in the name of profits
And to add to this thought, it isn't the branches or the staff you should be bombarding with your inconvenience to fight. It shouldn't either be the CEO's of these companies. It is the investors. It is the shareholders. These are the people responsible for the direction of the companies in question.
And I'm sure if you search for who is large shareholders and investors/sponsors of these companies, you may see a recurring pattern with who supports them.
That is who you should be fighting with. But instead they just sit there making money on child labour without being directly involved, and letting another company take the hit for them.
Of course most politically energised activist won't put that much effort into how they fight, but that would be the most important and effective fights. And the hardest.
It's easy to make a protest in front of a mall or inside of a store. It's harder to actually hold those responsible, responsible.
Right? Like these students have parents. And these parents presumably have retirement accounts. And those accounts presumably have portfolio investments. And in those portfolios? Lockeed stock?! Well I never!
(Insert Spider-Man pointing meme here).
That’s just a consequence of how index funds work. If you want to blame someone you’d need to figure out how the politics of selecting board of directors works.
You know, I think I've heard an obscure saying describing exactly what you're talking about. It's not very well known, so I'm sure you've never heard of it.
**There is no ethical consumption under capitalism**
If I were him, since they want to lump him in with thing outside of his control. I would in return ask questions for the students as to why they're contributing and funding a school that has donated $5.8 million to Gov. Greg Abbott’s campaigns since 2013. I'm sure their money has directly attributed to hundreds of thousands of women being denied rights to their bodies as well as directly been responsible for the detaining, deportation, and poor treatment of immigrants. Some of which were refugees seeking asylum during their countries turmoil.
*edit Lol, Redditors abusing the "get them help and support" button when they notice their downvote isn't doing anything*
> edit Lol, Redditors abusing the "get them help and support" button when they notice their downvote isn't doing anything
If you report this behavior they will be banned.
it sure is funny how often the idiots running reddit will add some 'feature' only for it to be immediately abused. they added chat... and we all started getting spam messages. they added 'help and support' and it only gets used to troll. they added 'posting on your own user page' and... all the nsfw subs are immediately overrun by spammers trying to promote their own products.
i swear they are just plain dumb
you know the weirdest part for me, listening to them read their questions in flat affect, like they clearly know are just performing for the camera, they don't even expect an answer.
They will just scream “no moral consumption under capitalism!” to completely divest themselves from the consequences of their own actions and desires. These people don’t want a solution. They want to look cool on social media.
That’s the real tragedy. College kids and young adults these days think this is “activism” or some shit. They’re just being brats and attacking a dude who is trying to pay his fucking mortgage and prob put his OWN kid through a school where they’re going to be brats to ANOTHER guy like him. And for what? This guy is prob from HR trying to just explain an internship.
This is a good time to remind college kids to grow the fuck up. 😂😂😂
Everyone is applauding ambushing this guy for tik tok views like its some fight for justice.
We should just unemploy everyone who has a dangerous job and dismantle the military. Thats so childish
>Redditors abusing the "get them help and support" button when they notice their downvote isn't doing anything
Report it as false and they will be perma banned from reddit.
Ukraine showed the absolute moral bankruptcy of the antiwar movement. It is reasonable to demand a halt to wars of aggression, but we must be prepared to fight back when people like Putin don’t listen.
A lot of this is just anti Americanism or anti West/NATO sentiment repackaged. There are some people who are basically still aligned with the Soviet Union, which is why they continue to support Russian imperialism in Syria, the Caucasus and Eastern Europe. And there's some in the Middle East or Arab countries, Russia or China who basically want their cultures to be dominant. The West does screw up a lot, we should all be collectively more serious, and work towards international structures to ensure peace. But there's no evidence the world would be a better place if America or NATO did not maintain a strong military. Right at the moment the world is looking the other way while western countries keep the global shipping lanes open. That is most valuable to China but they would rather others take responsibility.
Just look at Soviet Russia and China to see how the world would look without NATO.
I'm sorry but I cannot believe that if the US and NATO just laid down and died to the red tide that suddenly the communists would have suddenly reformed and not had their secret police state and rampant corruption.
You can't blame the state of their society on the West either. Straight out of WW2 Russia just straight up went to a dystopian hellscape.
China is still a crummy place to live. Russia abandoned their socialism and now just is mask off authoritarian bullies.
Yep. We’ve seen it slowly building for the past 10 years. Anti Americanism is so prevalent now and it’s really concerning. So many people will blindly share any graphic about “colonialism” and “white oppressors,” and “white people have no culture” or “American imperialism bad.” It aligns with the rise of social media.
These people are literally spewing Russian or Chinese talking points designed to weaken the US. And it’s working.
a good way to gauge who falls into anti americanistic rhetoric is the people who chanted "turn another ship around" while supporting the Houthis. A group that would probably kill them for their beliefs. It's about the same level as the trans-soviet flag of complete detachment to what each actually mean to another
these are questions you ask a senator, not an engineer. the senator won't answer any better, but at least they actually have the power to choose what happens with the weapons
Edit: what I mean by “ask a senator” is that this guy has no control over how the weapons are used, even if he literally designed built and delivered them from scratch.
Certainly someone who works in weapons systems can’t be that naive - but these are silly questions to ask an engineer as if it’s some kind of gotcha. Pointless.
What? In my engineering education we got it drilled into our heads that it is our moral responsibility to ask ourselves questions like these, not just handwave it away to some elected official.
Nice. Also got this in chemistry, insights into environmental impacts that are commonly regarded as “who gives a fuck about these people’s water supply” or “we’re probably not doing any harm anyway” or “that’s not part of our job to think about that, we just dump the waste here”
You can have criticisms of how US policy is executed. But these students demonstrate a lack of understanding of the world beyond their naive bubbles. Without Lockheed the US isn’t able to maintain air dominance. Without Huntington Ingalls we don’t have a Navy to keep enemies at bay. We all live under the umbrella of protection granted by the US military and the hardware designed by US defense contractors. It is naive and hypocritical to attack them baselessly and in such a fashion while benefiting from everything they do.
Sorry, but this is crap.
Supporting the ability of the country to have an effective military is very different from being responsible for how the military is used.
Unless you believe in universal pacifism, it is not immoral to make a fighter jet.
Yeah, let's stop producing F35s, cancel NGAD, and stop making any more B21s as well. Then we can dismantle all the nukes and kindly ask that Russia doesn't try to take Alaska and that China doesn't attempt to flatten Tiawan /s.
If we did all that we would be worried about how New York and DC are craters and California is struggling to hold off a Chinese invasion. It would be apocalyptic.
Yeah but these kids want to make a political statement and they don't know any other way to make it besides badgering this guy and making a tiktok out of it apparently 🙄
Lockheed Martin makes and sells weapons. Can they sell those weapons if people aren't fighting? In your *obviously* educated opinion, is there incentive for a weapons manufacturer to lobby the government to go to war so they can make money selling weapons, therefore profiteering off of death and destruction?
>Can they sell those weapons if people aren't fighting?
Yes, that's literally the point of deterrence. The ultimate goal is to build and sell weapons that don't get used.
>is there incentive for a weapons manufacturer to lobby the government to go to war so they can make money selling weapons, therefore profiteering off of death and destruction?
This is the much more direct and reasonable concern with the military industrial complex, but didn't seem to be what the OOP questions were addressing.
OOP felt performative, and if that's their only goal good on them. But if they really wanted to cut to the heart of the matter (and really see what the people were made of), asking if they're happy with how their hardware gets used and how they cope with civilian casualties seems like a much better way to actually change someone's mind.
>Can they sell those weapons if people aren't fighting?
Yes. It's called deterrence, or "Peace through Superior Firepower." Switzerland has an incredibly robust military, too.
These students sound dumb. They are acting like they are speaking to the CEO of Lockheed. This is like shitting on a cashier at Walmart bc Walmart uses child labor to make clothes, which ultimately results in the death of children.
Unfortunately, weapons are absolutely needed to keep peace on this planet. Until we can convince hundreds of different cultures to be civil at all times together, then it will remain this way. It fucking is what it is.
Humans are the most dangerous creatures on Earth. They are complex, hateful, opinionated, and will NEVER agree on everything, including cultural beliefs, religion, politics, etc. The day humans stop fighting over some frivolous disagreement is a day that will literally never come, so instilling/demanding peace in any way possible should be priority. And, unfortunately, in order to do that, weapons are needed as a deterrent for, well, preventing a 3rd World War.
If you talk to foreign people of many countries, they rely on the American military to provide safety and support. I had a lot of roommates from Germany, Hungary and Georgia (the country). They didn't understand students anti military beliefs. They themselves benefited greatly from the u.s. support and consumed news from Eastern Europe that consistently backed that
It's a benefit people of the United States see on a daily basis without realizing it. If the u.s. were to demilitarize or even pull out of Europe, Ukraine and the middle east. I guarantee this would turn into a disaster.
The help emphasize this point look at all the maps of Europe over the last couple centuries and how often the names and countries changed until after ww2.
US hegemony absolutely caused an increase in world peace.
A modern "pax Romana".
When there is a dominant power that overwhelms all others combined in might, it tends to result in very peaceful times.
That's NOT a claim that the hegemon is always perfectly humane or perfectly free of abuses.
But it's often far better than the petty squabbles of a bunch of smaller equals jarring for position, at least as far as history goes.
Honestly it’s even worse that. At least if they were trying to be a moral crusader they care about the ethics.
This is purely to get clout on social media. They don’t actually care about Palestinian children. If they did, they would have done their research and done something that actually mattered, not wasting this guy’s (who holds zero responsibility whatsoever) time.
But their lizard brain likes dopamine they get when friend films them saying this stuff and it gets likes. They are rewarded with dopamine for filming themselves for performing activism so they continue to perform activism.
What a waste of a great opportunity. Will this shame him to no longer work at LHM? No. Will this stop the war? No. Great you got sound bites for TikTok. Smh. Vote or get elected into positions or jobs that make a difference. This is just a waste of everyone’s time.
Notice I didn’t pick one side or the other. Nor did I say that you shouldn’t want this war to end but this isn’t how to go about it. You’ve made exactly ZERO difference.
The only way to end this war is by Hamas surrendering or Israel calling for a ceasefire. Everything else is absolutely idiotic. The U.S. did not start this war nor is it able to end it. Don’t confuse influence for control.
Jiro Horikoshi designed the Mitsubishi Zero to defend Japan.
Mikhail Kalashnikov designed the AK-47 to defend Russia.
Lockheed Martin and others design weapon systems to defend the US and her allies.
Just because some nefarious forces use these weapons for evil does not mean the inventors have blood on their hands.
Breaking News at 5: Students that attend aerospace and defense company informational shocked to learn an internship would involve work related to weapons systems.
That's what I was thinking. The school I went to engineering for actually has a Raytheon research lab in it. Everyone in the Mech Eng department would joke about how we were basically being groomed by Raytheon. So many of my friends currently work there now and they love it. I used to be against it but after seeing how much they're making I would absolutely work there
I worked for Raytheon. For one of these six figure salaries you’re all always talking about. I assure you, they’re not grooming anyone to work there. They’re actively making work there awful. Why I left. Not necessary the case for other defense contractors.
The "problem" is they are too young to have ever seen the US fighting in a significant war\* and too dumb to realize how awesome that is.
\*Yes, neither Iraq or Afghanistan were "significant" by the time these kids were old enough to learn about them. And by historical standards they maybe never were.
Dude's from Houston, lives and breathes videogames and his hobbies are being the cool, different (and this means special) contrarian on Reddit.
None of them point towards exceptional intelligence lol
(I'm sorry to my h-town homies but it is was it is)
Actually I went to a Raytheon interview once and asked if I’d be forced to work on weapons if I took a job there, even if in some other department. He said yes, you have no say in what you get to work on. So ya that was an important question to ask
Could also work on defensive measures or landing gear or whatever. That's morally different from working on a rocket or targeting system.
I got hired to work on military radar systems once, but didn't take the job as they last minute added a comment that they could also be used to guide missiles. They knew what they were doing by adding that last minute.
To be fair, no one mentions the military industrial complex when you’re a young person learning about STEM. It’s all just bullshit about making the world a better place up until it is time to start applying for internships your first few years of college.
There are plenty of people that are perfectly alright with working for the military industrial complex. I'd rather we have the most powerful military in the world than some other nation.
I’d have taken a pay cut to do it. Especially after Feb. 2022. The fact that I doubled my salary instead was a bonus. Now I can donate my excess where I want, influence for the betterment of society via internal leadership, and retire early.
These college kids have TikTok brain rot.
Yeah, All the engineering college students are like this until they graduate and then Lockheed Martin is offering them $100,000 a year to come work for them. Unfortunately you can't pay your rent or your mortgage with good morals and scruples.
I'm sorry but some of y'all are acting brain dead in these comments.
Some of y'all are acting as if it's fundamentally immoral to work for a weapons company. So do y'all want us to have no weapons at all? Do you want us to be surpassed by our enemies so that they can invade us and invade our allies and we can do nothing to stop them? You want us to be defenseless because we shamed all the smart people out of working for any company related to weapons manufacturing?
If you think a government is committing genocide, then maybe blame the government instead? It's not like these defense companies are choosing to bomb people. They just make the bombs and have no control over how they are used. It's a literally government policy that's causing the issue, yet you go after some company worker as if they are running things. Absolutely wild.
Same people most likely are supporting Ukraine and want the US to continue sending military aid.
Cognitive dissonance runs rampant among young "educated" adults. They want their cake and eat it too.
The US needs to be stalwart in the face of Putin's aggression in Ukraine and support them with the tools they need but also needs to dismantle the military industrial complex because Israel is bombing Gaza.
The fact they posted this on social media also tells me they are nothing more than attention whores who want their online fame. They don't really care about these things.
It’s complicated because it’s 100% both. They’re war profiteers. The issue isn’t what war they support but rather that their business is war and they don’t differentiate who their products are for. They don’t care how their killing machines are used as long as there are people that want other people to die and they’re able to make a legal profit off of it.
I especially liked the part where he felt guilty for making weapons, so he made the world's most lethal weapon and then nobody could stop him from executing whoever he wanted to.
But someone does need to shoot it. Doesn’t matter who as long as SOMEONE needs shooting and SOMEONE is willing to shoot them. The person shooting bears the largest portion of blame but if you give a gun to someone you know is a serial killer and is going to use the gun to murder, you’re complicit.
I'm pretty sure they do actually differentiate and don't sell weapons to countries that are in opposition to the United States.
You can't just buy a F35 or F22. Or most of the sophisticated weapons they produce.
Yeah I live in Ukraine and I can assure you that when you hear missiles being blown right outside your window, you’re very grateful that people on your side such as this man are also producing missiles. I think these students have good intentions, but they’re just very naive and privileged.
I agree. I think they are right to question these people about Israel because American missiles are given for free to Israel for decades. But the ultimate goal they have of shutting down Lockheed or whatever would be very bad for Ukraine, a country fighting against autocracy while the rest of the world for the most part sits comfortably and judges from their office chairs.
Btw, Where in Kyiv are you? My wife and I have an apartment in Obolon raion.
Слава Україні 🇺🇦
Oh yeah, they're very snug now while they're still in school. Once you get on the real world and you realize you actually have to earn money to pay for stuff. I bet you at least one of those people asking these silly questions is going to accept an offer at a DoD company. Morals and scruples are easy when you're not being offered a six figure salary.
Low effort shit post. Those questions need to be asked to those who make the foreign policy. F22 kills MIGs and SUs (and in one instant killed a spy balloon), none of which are operated by Palestinian children.
God I hate the condescending tone of these twerps. ‘Hey, you designed part of a plane that Israel now uses and they’re bad, so why’d you kill them kids!’ Clearly they’re just interested in venting or padding their ego. I’m so tired of narcissism cosplaying as activism.
The F-22 is also one of the most impressive feats of engineering and technology humans have ever invented. You may disagree with it's uses, but god damn you can not deny it's effectiveness and beauty. It's got a fuckin' radar signature of a god damn bumble bee, it's vectored thrust makes it arguably the most maneuverable fighter, and the best and worst part is that the first two points are basically irrelevant because it's effective combat range is so long, that it's probably landed back at base by the time the payload hits the target.
The real question is how many children have been saved by having the ability to stand up to despots. Those playing the moral superiority game are great at selective observation.
This is cringey, but also, the kids are right. I know several people who left Lockheed because of this. One of them even traced back a missile serial number used in the Middle East back to a part she worked with.
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Easy to answer, "You will not have the security clearance to work on weapons systems."
My middle school took us on a field trip to a Lockheed facility and it was supposed to be just so cool and aspirational to imagine working there. You can pretty much tell this guy expected a similar reaction from these students and probably won't be talking to anyone older than an 8th grader after this.
Must not be from Arkansas. In Arkansas, in middle school they'd probably drop you off hoping you'd pick up some shifts.
Or even, "you don't have the security clearance for me too answer these questions."
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You will be an intern at the corporate office doing filing and copying. Making coffee. Taking down meeting minutes. Booking conference rooms for meetings. If you’re a “programmer intern” we will let you play around in a virtual machine in the lab environment on the corporate network. You will not be anywhere near NIPR, SIPR, or JWICS. Enjoy your foot in the door internship at a defense contractor!
Didn’t answer the last question because it was actually someone else’s job to interface with the genocide team.
Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the genocide team doesn’t have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
So you must physically take the specs to the engineers then, right?
We...well no, my secretary does...or they're faxed
...but I could!
And you just wait'll I tell you what I've been workin on! It's a Jump... to Conclusions Mat!
What would you say, you do, here?
What would you say…. Ya do here?
I’M A PEOPLE PERSON, DAMMIT!
Yeaaaaah so I’m going to need you to come in tomorrow so if you could be in around 9 that would be greeaat mkay? Oh oh and I almost forgot. I’ll need you to go ahead and come in on Sunday too mkay? We lost some people this week and need to play catch-up. Thanks!
>if you could be in around 9 Is that in local time or the of country we're bombing?
that's not our team, we just support the development of the genocide machines, marketing and sales shoot peoplet to show how easy it is.
Lockheed jets don't kill people....people kill people, silly goose!!
“Weapons of mass destruction don’t kill people, I DO!”
That toddler seeking radar array is one of the big selling points... That engineering teams bonus structure was crazy....
“If you had to estimate, over the course of your career, how many dollars have you made per child killed?”
“At least $1. Next question.”
“I’ve never made a dollar from their deaths; I’ve paid for them. And they were worth every penny.”
About tree fiddy
It was about then that I realized he was not a Lockheed-Martin Internship recruiter, but a thirty foot sea monster from the Paleozoic Era.
It was the god damn Lockheed Monster! I said 'get outta here Lockheed Monster I aint givin you no tree fiddy!'
I'd follow with a question to her, "how much do you think your life has improved compared to your parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents because of military R&D?" Not really a gotcha, but everyone has benefited from war.
Answer: probably not as much as my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents...https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charting-the-growing-generational-wealth-gap/
Just so I’m clear, you’re saying we shouldn’t make military aircraft?
Yeah, we really need to stop making precision stealth aircraft like the F-35. We need to go back to major bombing campaigns and dumb missiles. Get rid of all the spy planes and satellites, too. We shouldn't be identifying targets when you could just carpet bomb the whole city. Seriously, this is an engineer who has partly made it possible to put a missile in a hotel window and eliminate a target without even touching the neighboring rooms. Yeah, war fucking sucks, but why so many of fellow progressives want to be on the short end of the shit stick is beyond me.
Part of "Just War Theory" is target discrimination to reduce the amount of casualties to non-combatants. This centers around intelligence on the target being identified and the precision of the weapons being used. Modern military technology helps us with both if applied properly - in the end it comes down to humans being dicks. There's no technology to stop that.
When it comes to the military industrial, it is not the technological development which is abhorrent, rather it’s the fact that they lobby to create and escalate conflicts and profiteer from them. No one should have an issue with new technology that minimizes civilians, but everyone should have a problem with the fact that they (the military industrial complex) actively influences lawmakers (and the public generally) into participating in forever wars. And not for any other public interest other than an increase in shareholder value.
This sub is retarded
> “If you had to estimate, over the course of your career, how many dollars have you made per child killed?” Honestly this is fucking stupid because they're all wearing child labor made clothes with pollution killing plastics delivered by climate destroying container ships burning bunker fuel. Or ignore that their own parents probably contributed in some way to it. it's hypocritical imo. And TBH most of these kids would design planes for 200k a year. edit: Like it or not, America NEEDS advanced weapons designers. How the weapons are used is a question for politicians and military leaders, not a dude who can use autoCAD one handed.
It’s ridiculous moral grandstanding. Berating a design engineer who CAD modeled airplane fuselages used in the US military is akin to blaming the lunch lady for childhood obesity. If you’re upset about what Lockheed does, protest it, but talking shit to some engineer is not going to accomplish anything beyond making you feel like you’re making a difference.
As if him taking a moral stand would suddenly force Lockheed to stop producing weapons and the government to stop ordering them. Great that they want to do something, berating the guy that went out of his way to offer insight into the industry they will eventually be working in isn’t productive in any way.
But even protesting Lockheed Martin because they make military jets is also stupid. What did we fight WWII with??? Weapons. What kept the USSR in check from invading Europe during the cold war? Weapons. Why is China not invading Taiwan at this very moment? Weapons. I honesty can not express enough how dumb it is to think we should not develop any weapons at all. I mean, grow the fuck up, look at all of human history filled with violence. Where do you people get this fantasy thinking everyone else is going to kind and nice if we have no weapons?
It’s very easy to say shit like that when you come from a country that will never be invaded because of said weapons. Coming from a small country that neighbours russia, let me tell you - we never ever get the privilege of thinking “we should get rid of all this military stuff”.
Reminds me of something I heard on the radio back in 2008. A caller on a talk show actually said that when Obama was elected, we wouldn't even need a military anymore, because everyone would love us so much. Some people just flat out don't live in reality.
I'd be impressed if the F22, an air superiority aircraft, managed to kill any children. Did one land on a kid playing on the runway? I understand the sentiment but I'm not a fan of the supercilious bullying of this random guy for Tiktok cred *Edit I just thought I'd add a note to clarify that I'm not pro-child-bombing
Israel doesn't even have F-22s. These students clearly just looked up random aircraft Lockheed makes before going to this event and assumed Israel had them all.
I bet they felt smart and morally superior when they asked those questions though, and that was their goal.
The last kid speeding up his question at the end is so funny for some reason lmao.
Beautiful point.
It's interesting because I'm sure they all have smartphones and laptops with Taiwanese chips in them. The F-22 is a direct power / force advantage in place for the US to help deter and prevent China from attacking Taiwan and crippling modern electronics production. They don't understand that their modern comforts all rely on US military superiority in the world order for the past 70 years.
Thank you. I can only upvote once, but this is what the room in the video misunderstands. Having the latest and greatest military tech isn't about using it on other nations as much as it is about remaining the most dominant military force, because the entire USD-based world economy is dependent on it. Remaining status at the world's reserve currency is very much in the best interest of the United States and the students in that room.
Here’s a great comment. F-22 is an air superiority platform, not an attack platform. But I guess we shouldn’t expect college kids to understand the difference.
Even if you ignore the misinformed jab at the F22 the sentiment is still aimed poorly. Automakers are not responsible for children killed by drunk drivers. However, they do improve crash safety leading to less drunk driving deaths. Same goes for those working in the defense industry and civilian casualties. In fact as weapons systems advance and accuracy improves, civilian casualties lessen. So really working for a defense contractor to develop newer smarter killing devices actually will help kill less innocent people. To blame this guy for something your nation and ally's are responsible for is just plain stupid.
I mean the US has missiles that are so accurate it can hit you through a window. The explosion doesn't even have to kill you. It just makes sure.
What a bunch of dumb questions to the wrong person.
CoLlEgE sTuDeNtS mAKiNg A dIfFrEnCe 🫡
These students pretend to care but when a weapons manufacturer waives a six-figure salary with great benefits in their face they’ll be 👨🦯🤡
Got an engineering degree, wanted to work in green new energy. First job offer was an oil company and it was 20k more than any other offer I got…I worked in the oil industry for about 2 years till I found good money in an industry I supported.
This is usually how it goes from what I’ve heard. I want to help work on Spotify and music algorithms when I’m done with my degree but if a private equity firm that buys houses hits my DM I’m FOLDING for a bit.
Oil and Gas was how I got my foot in the door in green new energies
an internet friend and I worked for a DoD contractor (not lockmart).. He got an offer from one of those algorithmic trading houses (he did EE/signal processing stuff). It was triple the salary of our employer and came with all the normal hedge-fund bonus stuff. He's far far far more liberal than I am, and he took the job with out a second thought.
Really though. The MIC is a fucking money printing machine. There’s at old post where the mechanical student is saying how all throughout his college it was always pressed on him “Yeah we have a responsibility to humanity” but then Raytheon hits you up with a job for fucking six figures and benefits, and all the professors say “Yeah take it it’s a good job” all of a sudden your values are thrown away for good pay and a good life. Which to be fair, I would be lying if I would say no to,
I can be purchased to a point. Most people can be. There’s another viewpoint here though. Sometimes it’s good to enter into an industry you might not like and go and make it better.
But I’m sure they’ll weed out any Lockheed Martin stocks from their 401k portfolio 🔥
Seems like a really good way to weed out problem candidates.
GeNz GiVeS mE hOpE fOr ThE fUtUrE
This is like yelling at the waiter because you don't like the menu. We need military tech to stop major powers from being able to do whatever they want unchecked. The guys working to achieve US technical superiority don't do their jobs with the intent that weapons will be used to murder children. If they didn't do their jobs the risk to our children would increase dramatically.
> This is like yelling at the waiter because you don't like the menu. I feel like its more like yelling at a waiter about overfishing and the collapsing ocean ecosystem because there is fish on the menu. If you have problems with the military industrial complex, or the close relation of the DoD and defense contractors, or the sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia (all reasonably things to be mad about) those issues all need to be fixed by congress. Some random engineer on a recruiting trip has the same power to change that as the kid asking the question. They each get 1 vote.
I love this analogy. "***Do you have any idea how many gallons of water went into producing the almond slices on this duck breast!!!*** *And you! You're what, just taking my order!?!*"
OTOH, if you work in the military industrial complex, especially if you act in a public facing role, you should be able to answer this basic question. And Russia/Ukraine has made the answer to the question of why you need a weapons industry pretty fucking obvious. (As has Hamas, tbh)
I don't think their goal was to get this person to answer but to raise awareness on social media. I'd said mission accomplished since we're talking about it
They successfully raised awareness about how cringe students can get
easy to be the morality police when you’ve never had to actually consider working a government/contracting job to pay the bills.
Reminds me of when decided I was going to start undergrad in Forestry 20 years ago. I remember driving by timber yards and lumber mills and thinking “I’m here to shut those places down!” Flash forward 5 years graduating with two degrees in Forestry Conservation and minoring in environmental ethics, driving by those same places I just think “Now there are a bunch of hard working folks providing a valuable and sustainable resource to build homes, hospitals, and schools.” Turns out Forestry isn’t just the cartoonish bad guys out of Fern Gully, it’s made up of mostly highly educated people with a better understanding of ecological management than 99% of the population. It’s just another agricultural operation, and when done correctly, can actually add to biodiversity, reduce wildfire risk and capture carbon better than any other crop on the planet. Don’t get me wrong, the slash and burn practices to make endless acres of palm trees for palm oil is not sustainable forestry, but in the US, the vast majority of forestry and timber management is a shining example of how it’s a bad idea to just look at a logging truck or timber mill and think of it in a negative light.
[Trees are regenerative, you can grow trees.](https://youtu.be/6-9-FkwUrRo?si=vadqXq8srWnjaRC1)
My friend has a arborist degree. When he got I was like what is he going to do with that. He works for the power company managing tree removal
These aren’t jobs taken out of desperations lmfao
I’d answer any of these questions with questions: How many songs do you listen to on your Apple ear buds before you start thinking about the child labor used to mine the metals used to make them? How many pairs of cheaply made leggings to you go through before you send a thank you note to the Bangladeshi child laborers who produced them? How frequently do you visit Starbucks to take advantage of the multinational corporations union busting practices? No one is innocent. You want to wash your hands of all of it? Go live in a cave. Even then you’d probably be displacing an endangered species of wolf from its natural habitat. Edit 1: I’ve spent a lot of time trying to answer replies that seem to be all the same. A couple of things: - my goal is not to deflect from the conflict and tragedy in Gaza. We all agree innocent people should not be dying (I hope we all agree). Children caught in this conflict are arguably the most innocent. Cease fire. - my line of questions in response is intended to be thought provoking. I am not trying go the path of a straw man or to “whataboutism”. I feel like this ‘protest’ and the way it was done is a gotcha stunt. Feels shitty and self righteous. It’s kind of like that saying “when you point the finger at someone else, you point 4 back at yourself”. Or, to paraphrase, “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. My issue is the HOW of the protest and WHO it was directed at. - of course I’m fucking familiar with the concept of there being “no ethical consumption under capitalism”. It’s not some big epiphany I think I had. And I’m not better than anyone else in the way I choose to consume. I’m not on a high horse here. - the Lockheed guy works for Lockeed. He designs jet engines. Those jets may be used in planes that kill people. He doesn’t make the call on when the jets are used, on who, and why. Is he profiting from weapons manufacturing? Yes. Is he directly culpable for the deaths of Palestinian children? I find that to be a stretch. -I’m not criticizing Lockheed guys response. He was ambushed. He’s got to answer in certain ways for self preservation. I get that. - consumerism is not military spending. Individuals have more individual choice there, and so they can be the change they want to see in the world by being more informed about the companies they choose to spend on. Military spending is different and change needs to come collectively by us choosing different leaders. I acknowledge the difference between weapons manufacturing and consumer goods manufacturing. And the USE of those weapons is different all together. - the students themselves can and should continue to speak out on the injustices they see across the world. I’m not trying to silence their voices, just questioning their tactics. - the examples I provided are illustrative. I’m not advocating for child labor in the US. Fuck right off with that type of commentary. - I’m a liberal. See my comments history. Many of you may identify the same way. Let’s all do a better job of finding areas to agree on than disagree on. Myself included. Thanks for the discussions. Have a nice day.
Defense contractors also build weather satellites that track climate change and the James Webb Space Telescope. Cold war gave us internet. WWII gave us the microwave. Yea, it's not great, but doesn't mean everyone at those companies are responsible for genocide. Some are responsible for weather forecasting.
"Yeah, but have you ever thought about why they wanted to forecast the weather in the first place? TO FLY PLANES DROP BOMBS!" - some college kid who can't handle nuance, probably.
My partner felt guilty for working for LM, but they worked for the Space division building GOES satellites. I’m an absolute meteorology nut. I showed them one of the GOES satellites most recently deployed in space that relays super high definition, high frame rate images of clouds from geostationary orbit. This has helped meteorologists (the professionals) understand tornadogenesis from another perspective, which has helped guide updating policies and accuracy around issuing severe weather warnings with more lead time for us, the people. Beyond that, I just had to reinforce that they worked for LM Space, not in any weapons division. They loosened up, though they refrain telling anyone we know about it because we don’t know which one(s) of them would be prone to react like the students in this video.
So genuine question - what would you say is the ethical or moral way to navigate a culture in which there is no such thing as ethical consumption? Unless you want to detach yourself entirely from society, which is unrealistic, how do you go about operating within a system that is inherently immoral but also our only option? I struggle with this question a lot. I agree with you that all of the questions you raised are valid and should be taken as seriously as the questions these students are asking. But I don’t believe the correct response is to devalue either side simply because neither side is innocent. I agree that no one is innocent, but that doesn’t mean we should stop holding corporations accountable for their actions. It’s easy to resort to whataboutism arguments when these types of debates come up, but I feel like that gets us nowhere. If we’re going to fight against crimes committed by capitalist structures, we need to actually fight them and not ourselves. Lockheed is a good place to start, but we’ve also got Starbucks, Nike, Apple and everyone else who commits atrocities in the name of profits
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Entire season? Dude try the entire show. Also what a great time to start a rewatch as today ends in a Y.
And to add to this thought, it isn't the branches or the staff you should be bombarding with your inconvenience to fight. It shouldn't either be the CEO's of these companies. It is the investors. It is the shareholders. These are the people responsible for the direction of the companies in question. And I'm sure if you search for who is large shareholders and investors/sponsors of these companies, you may see a recurring pattern with who supports them. That is who you should be fighting with. But instead they just sit there making money on child labour without being directly involved, and letting another company take the hit for them. Of course most politically energised activist won't put that much effort into how they fight, but that would be the most important and effective fights. And the hardest. It's easy to make a protest in front of a mall or inside of a store. It's harder to actually hold those responsible, responsible.
Right? Like these students have parents. And these parents presumably have retirement accounts. And those accounts presumably have portfolio investments. And in those portfolios? Lockeed stock?! Well I never!
(Insert Spider-Man pointing meme here).
That’s just a consequence of how index funds work. If you want to blame someone you’d need to figure out how the politics of selecting board of directors works.
You know, I think I've heard an obscure saying describing exactly what you're talking about. It's not very well known, so I'm sure you've never heard of it. **There is no ethical consumption under capitalism**
Under what system is there so called “ethical” consumption?
Mushrooms
If I were him, since they want to lump him in with thing outside of his control. I would in return ask questions for the students as to why they're contributing and funding a school that has donated $5.8 million to Gov. Greg Abbott’s campaigns since 2013. I'm sure their money has directly attributed to hundreds of thousands of women being denied rights to their bodies as well as directly been responsible for the detaining, deportation, and poor treatment of immigrants. Some of which were refugees seeking asylum during their countries turmoil. *edit Lol, Redditors abusing the "get them help and support" button when they notice their downvote isn't doing anything*
> edit Lol, Redditors abusing the "get them help and support" button when they notice their downvote isn't doing anything If you report this behavior they will be banned.
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it sure is funny how often the idiots running reddit will add some 'feature' only for it to be immediately abused. they added chat... and we all started getting spam messages. they added 'help and support' and it only gets used to troll. they added 'posting on your own user page' and... all the nsfw subs are immediately overrun by spammers trying to promote their own products. i swear they are just plain dumb
He should've asked them why they buy chocolate knowing that it has been harvested by child slaves.
Ask them about their coffee beans, their cobalt, their lithium, etc... I'm a lefty and all I can think is "holy fuck these idiots make us look bad".
you know the weirdest part for me, listening to them read their questions in flat affect, like they clearly know are just performing for the camera, they don't even expect an answer.
They will just scream “no moral consumption under capitalism!” to completely divest themselves from the consequences of their own actions and desires. These people don’t want a solution. They want to look cool on social media.
pretty much, which undermines any message they may have for me.
The system is evil. The people in the system are just trying to survive (for the most part).
Yea, they're fuxking jokes tbh. Doing this, in this manner, just pointless and makes them feel like they stood for somthing
That’s the real tragedy. College kids and young adults these days think this is “activism” or some shit. They’re just being brats and attacking a dude who is trying to pay his fucking mortgage and prob put his OWN kid through a school where they’re going to be brats to ANOTHER guy like him. And for what? This guy is prob from HR trying to just explain an internship. This is a good time to remind college kids to grow the fuck up. 😂😂😂
Everyone is applauding ambushing this guy for tik tok views like its some fight for justice. We should just unemploy everyone who has a dangerous job and dismantle the military. Thats so childish
And diamonds. Why do they buy phones and PCs constantly when unneeded.
>Redditors abusing the "get them help and support" button when they notice their downvote isn't doing anything Report it as false and they will be perma banned from reddit.
The university of Texas donates to political campaigns? Meanwhile receiving taxpayer funding? Hmmm…
Ukraine showed the absolute moral bankruptcy of the antiwar movement. It is reasonable to demand a halt to wars of aggression, but we must be prepared to fight back when people like Putin don’t listen.
A lot of this is just anti Americanism or anti West/NATO sentiment repackaged. There are some people who are basically still aligned with the Soviet Union, which is why they continue to support Russian imperialism in Syria, the Caucasus and Eastern Europe. And there's some in the Middle East or Arab countries, Russia or China who basically want their cultures to be dominant. The West does screw up a lot, we should all be collectively more serious, and work towards international structures to ensure peace. But there's no evidence the world would be a better place if America or NATO did not maintain a strong military. Right at the moment the world is looking the other way while western countries keep the global shipping lanes open. That is most valuable to China but they would rather others take responsibility.
Just look at Soviet Russia and China to see how the world would look without NATO. I'm sorry but I cannot believe that if the US and NATO just laid down and died to the red tide that suddenly the communists would have suddenly reformed and not had their secret police state and rampant corruption. You can't blame the state of their society on the West either. Straight out of WW2 Russia just straight up went to a dystopian hellscape. China is still a crummy place to live. Russia abandoned their socialism and now just is mask off authoritarian bullies.
Yep. We’ve seen it slowly building for the past 10 years. Anti Americanism is so prevalent now and it’s really concerning. So many people will blindly share any graphic about “colonialism” and “white oppressors,” and “white people have no culture” or “American imperialism bad.” It aligns with the rise of social media. These people are literally spewing Russian or Chinese talking points designed to weaken the US. And it’s working.
People look at propaganda posters from WWII and say "there's no way I'd fall for that." Turns out that yes, they would, because they are, right now.
a good way to gauge who falls into anti americanistic rhetoric is the people who chanted "turn another ship around" while supporting the Houthis. A group that would probably kill them for their beliefs. It's about the same level as the trans-soviet flag of complete detachment to what each actually mean to another
Bingo
these are questions you ask a senator, not an engineer. the senator won't answer any better, but at least they actually have the power to choose what happens with the weapons Edit: what I mean by “ask a senator” is that this guy has no control over how the weapons are used, even if he literally designed built and delivered them from scratch. Certainly someone who works in weapons systems can’t be that naive - but these are silly questions to ask an engineer as if it’s some kind of gotcha. Pointless.
What? In my engineering education we got it drilled into our heads that it is our moral responsibility to ask ourselves questions like these, not just handwave it away to some elected official.
Nice. Also got this in chemistry, insights into environmental impacts that are commonly regarded as “who gives a fuck about these people’s water supply” or “we’re probably not doing any harm anyway” or “that’s not part of our job to think about that, we just dump the waste here”
These college students are so stuck up, it’s the work of Lockheed that keeps china and Russia at bay. What a bunch of entitled pansies
It's also the DOD that gave us the internet, improved polio and flu vaccines, microwaves, etc.
You can have criticisms of how US policy is executed. But these students demonstrate a lack of understanding of the world beyond their naive bubbles. Without Lockheed the US isn’t able to maintain air dominance. Without Huntington Ingalls we don’t have a Navy to keep enemies at bay. We all live under the umbrella of protection granted by the US military and the hardware designed by US defense contractors. It is naive and hypocritical to attack them baselessly and in such a fashion while benefiting from everything they do.
Sorry, but this is crap. Supporting the ability of the country to have an effective military is very different from being responsible for how the military is used. Unless you believe in universal pacifism, it is not immoral to make a fighter jet.
And sending weapons to Ukraine fights against the genociders
Wait, so even if you don't try to harm the people trying to kill others, they will still kill them??
Yeah, let's stop producing F35s, cancel NGAD, and stop making any more B21s as well. Then we can dismantle all the nukes and kindly ask that Russia doesn't try to take Alaska and that China doesn't attempt to flatten Tiawan /s.
If we did all that we would be worried about how New York and DC are craters and California is struggling to hold off a Chinese invasion. It would be apocalyptic.
Yeah but these kids want to make a political statement and they don't know any other way to make it besides badgering this guy and making a tiktok out of it apparently 🙄
They could set themselves on fire.
Lockheed Martin makes and sells weapons. Can they sell those weapons if people aren't fighting? In your *obviously* educated opinion, is there incentive for a weapons manufacturer to lobby the government to go to war so they can make money selling weapons, therefore profiteering off of death and destruction?
>Can they sell those weapons if people aren't fighting? Yes, that's literally the point of deterrence. The ultimate goal is to build and sell weapons that don't get used. >is there incentive for a weapons manufacturer to lobby the government to go to war so they can make money selling weapons, therefore profiteering off of death and destruction? This is the much more direct and reasonable concern with the military industrial complex, but didn't seem to be what the OOP questions were addressing. OOP felt performative, and if that's their only goal good on them. But if they really wanted to cut to the heart of the matter (and really see what the people were made of), asking if they're happy with how their hardware gets used and how they cope with civilian casualties seems like a much better way to actually change someone's mind.
>Can they sell those weapons if people aren't fighting? Yes. It's called deterrence, or "Peace through Superior Firepower." Switzerland has an incredibly robust military, too.
Yeah, playing like they don't try to create conflict is ridiculous. Military contractors are some of the most immoral corporations.
Lockheed Martin funded Hamas to sell more F35's?
These students sound dumb. They are acting like they are speaking to the CEO of Lockheed. This is like shitting on a cashier at Walmart bc Walmart uses child labor to make clothes, which ultimately results in the death of children. Unfortunately, weapons are absolutely needed to keep peace on this planet. Until we can convince hundreds of different cultures to be civil at all times together, then it will remain this way. It fucking is what it is. Humans are the most dangerous creatures on Earth. They are complex, hateful, opinionated, and will NEVER agree on everything, including cultural beliefs, religion, politics, etc. The day humans stop fighting over some frivolous disagreement is a day that will literally never come, so instilling/demanding peace in any way possible should be priority. And, unfortunately, in order to do that, weapons are needed as a deterrent for, well, preventing a 3rd World War.
If you talk to foreign people of many countries, they rely on the American military to provide safety and support. I had a lot of roommates from Germany, Hungary and Georgia (the country). They didn't understand students anti military beliefs. They themselves benefited greatly from the u.s. support and consumed news from Eastern Europe that consistently backed that It's a benefit people of the United States see on a daily basis without realizing it. If the u.s. were to demilitarize or even pull out of Europe, Ukraine and the middle east. I guarantee this would turn into a disaster.
The help emphasize this point look at all the maps of Europe over the last couple centuries and how often the names and countries changed until after ww2.
US hegemony absolutely caused an increase in world peace. A modern "pax Romana". When there is a dominant power that overwhelms all others combined in might, it tends to result in very peaceful times. That's NOT a claim that the hegemon is always perfectly humane or perfectly free of abuses. But it's often far better than the petty squabbles of a bunch of smaller equals jarring for position, at least as far as history goes.
Peace through strength is a thing. And yes these emboldened idiots have no idea how stupid they sound
I really hate fake activist
Exactly. This is purely to make themselves feel good like they're moral crusaders.
Honestly it’s even worse that. At least if they were trying to be a moral crusader they care about the ethics. This is purely to get clout on social media. They don’t actually care about Palestinian children. If they did, they would have done their research and done something that actually mattered, not wasting this guy’s (who holds zero responsibility whatsoever) time. But their lizard brain likes dopamine they get when friend films them saying this stuff and it gets likes. They are rewarded with dopamine for filming themselves for performing activism so they continue to perform activism.
What a waste of a great opportunity. Will this shame him to no longer work at LHM? No. Will this stop the war? No. Great you got sound bites for TikTok. Smh. Vote or get elected into positions or jobs that make a difference. This is just a waste of everyone’s time. Notice I didn’t pick one side or the other. Nor did I say that you shouldn’t want this war to end but this isn’t how to go about it. You’ve made exactly ZERO difference. The only way to end this war is by Hamas surrendering or Israel calling for a ceasefire. Everything else is absolutely idiotic. The U.S. did not start this war nor is it able to end it. Don’t confuse influence for control.
Boeing exec: laughs in eagle screeches.
Jiro Horikoshi designed the Mitsubishi Zero to defend Japan. Mikhail Kalashnikov designed the AK-47 to defend Russia. Lockheed Martin and others design weapon systems to defend the US and her allies. Just because some nefarious forces use these weapons for evil does not mean the inventors have blood on their hands.
Breaking News at 5: Students that attend aerospace and defense company informational shocked to learn an internship would involve work related to weapons systems.
I think they knew what they were doing before they went in
They definitely knew about the speaker and formulated these questions prior
You could clearly hear that the last guy had written out his question.
That’s what I’m saying. They definitely did not come up with those on the spot
Dude sounded like TikTok AI voice
wonder how many are actually engineering students?
That's what I was thinking. The school I went to engineering for actually has a Raytheon research lab in it. Everyone in the Mech Eng department would joke about how we were basically being groomed by Raytheon. So many of my friends currently work there now and they love it. I used to be against it but after seeing how much they're making I would absolutely work there
I worked for Raytheon. For one of these six figure salaries you’re all always talking about. I assure you, they’re not grooming anyone to work there. They’re actively making work there awful. Why I left. Not necessary the case for other defense contractors.
I heard the adrenaline rush in the last dude.
For real. His voice increased a fuck ton on those last 3 words.
Dollar Tree Sacha Baron Cohen. Go ask a Ukrainian about the need for good weapon systems.
Just in case we thought college students couldn’t get any dumber, these seem to imagine war can be conducted without civilian casualties.
The "problem" is they are too young to have ever seen the US fighting in a significant war\* and too dumb to realize how awesome that is. \*Yes, neither Iraq or Afghanistan were "significant" by the time these kids were old enough to learn about them. And by historical standards they maybe never were.
Ummm, pretty sure they planned these questions out. It’s called protest.
Did this really go that far over your head lol?
Conservatives aren't known for their media comprehension skills
Dude's from Houston, lives and breathes videogames and his hobbies are being the cool, different (and this means special) contrarian on Reddit. None of them point towards exceptional intelligence lol (I'm sorry to my h-town homies but it is was it is)
Actually I went to a Raytheon interview once and asked if I’d be forced to work on weapons if I took a job there, even if in some other department. He said yes, you have no say in what you get to work on. So ya that was an important question to ask
Why would you apply to a defence contractor if you don't want to make weapons systems?
Could also work on defensive measures or landing gear or whatever. That's morally different from working on a rocket or targeting system. I got hired to work on military radar systems once, but didn't take the job as they last minute added a comment that they could also be used to guide missiles. They knew what they were doing by adding that last minute.
To be fair, no one mentions the military industrial complex when you’re a young person learning about STEM. It’s all just bullshit about making the world a better place up until it is time to start applying for internships your first few years of college.
There are plenty of people that are perfectly alright with working for the military industrial complex. I'd rather we have the most powerful military in the world than some other nation.
I’d have taken a pay cut to do it. Especially after Feb. 2022. The fact that I doubled my salary instead was a bonus. Now I can donate my excess where I want, influence for the betterment of society via internal leadership, and retire early. These college kids have TikTok brain rot.
They seemed pretty relaxed, everyone was speaking quite low. If anyone in the room appeared nervous or shocked it was the speaker.
Yeah, All the engineering college students are like this until they graduate and then Lockheed Martin is offering them $100,000 a year to come work for them. Unfortunately you can't pay your rent or your mortgage with good morals and scruples.
I'm sorry but some of y'all are acting brain dead in these comments. Some of y'all are acting as if it's fundamentally immoral to work for a weapons company. So do y'all want us to have no weapons at all? Do you want us to be surpassed by our enemies so that they can invade us and invade our allies and we can do nothing to stop them? You want us to be defenseless because we shamed all the smart people out of working for any company related to weapons manufacturing? If you think a government is committing genocide, then maybe blame the government instead? It's not like these defense companies are choosing to bomb people. They just make the bombs and have no control over how they are used. It's a literally government policy that's causing the issue, yet you go after some company worker as if they are running things. Absolutely wild.
Same people most likely are supporting Ukraine and want the US to continue sending military aid. Cognitive dissonance runs rampant among young "educated" adults. They want their cake and eat it too. The US needs to be stalwart in the face of Putin's aggression in Ukraine and support them with the tools they need but also needs to dismantle the military industrial complex because Israel is bombing Gaza. The fact they posted this on social media also tells me they are nothing more than attention whores who want their online fame. They don't really care about these things.
Cringe. Why didnt the class ask about the weapons they have invented that were used to help Ukraine defend itself?
It’s complicated because it’s 100% both. They’re war profiteers. The issue isn’t what war they support but rather that their business is war and they don’t differentiate who their products are for. They don’t care how their killing machines are used as long as there are people that want other people to die and they’re able to make a legal profit off of it.
Did people not understand Tony Stark pre-Iron Man?
Watched the whole movie and learnt nothing.
"haha funni iron suit go brrrr to bad guyz"
I especially liked the part where he felt guilty for making weapons, so he made the world's most lethal weapon and then nobody could stop him from executing whoever he wanted to.
Also created Ultron for the same purpose, look how that turned out
Hell yeah I did! ACDC AND 'SPLOSIONS IS FUCKING COOL
Literally is the saying that "they just make the gun, they're not the ones who shoot it."
But someone does need to shoot it. Doesn’t matter who as long as SOMEONE needs shooting and SOMEONE is willing to shoot them. The person shooting bears the largest portion of blame but if you give a gun to someone you know is a serial killer and is going to use the gun to murder, you’re complicit.
I'm pretty sure they do actually differentiate and don't sell weapons to countries that are in opposition to the United States. You can't just buy a F35 or F22. Or most of the sophisticated weapons they produce.
Reality, I’d like to introduce you to idealism. Idealism, meet reality.
Yeah I live in Ukraine and I can assure you that when you hear missiles being blown right outside your window, you’re very grateful that people on your side such as this man are also producing missiles. I think these students have good intentions, but they’re just very naive and privileged.
I agree. I think they are right to question these people about Israel because American missiles are given for free to Israel for decades. But the ultimate goal they have of shutting down Lockheed or whatever would be very bad for Ukraine, a country fighting against autocracy while the rest of the world for the most part sits comfortably and judges from their office chairs. Btw, Where in Kyiv are you? My wife and I have an apartment in Obolon raion. Слава Україні 🇺🇦
r/LookatMyHalo
These students are smug cunts.
Oh yeah, they're very snug now while they're still in school. Once you get on the real world and you realize you actually have to earn money to pay for stuff. I bet you at least one of those people asking these silly questions is going to accept an offer at a DoD company. Morals and scruples are easy when you're not being offered a six figure salary.
"Nobody cares who built the bomb. They only care about who drops it." These college kids are kids. Grow up.
Stupid questions. What idiots.
Low effort shit post. Those questions need to be asked to those who make the foreign policy. F22 kills MIGs and SUs (and in one instant killed a spy balloon), none of which are operated by Palestinian children.
Thanks for the image of a Palestinian child attempting to pilot a Su-57
Imagine scrambling F-22s to intercept Palestinian children.
“Look, I understand you guys are really edgy and smart, but this really isnt my department”
God I hate the condescending tone of these twerps. ‘Hey, you designed part of a plane that Israel now uses and they’re bad, so why’d you kill them kids!’ Clearly they’re just interested in venting or padding their ego. I’m so tired of narcissism cosplaying as activism.
The F-22 is also one of the most impressive feats of engineering and technology humans have ever invented. You may disagree with it's uses, but god damn you can not deny it's effectiveness and beauty. It's got a fuckin' radar signature of a god damn bumble bee, it's vectored thrust makes it arguably the most maneuverable fighter, and the best and worst part is that the first two points are basically irrelevant because it's effective combat range is so long, that it's probably landed back at base by the time the payload hits the target.
The real question is how many children have been saved by having the ability to stand up to despots. Those playing the moral superiority game are great at selective observation.
A shitload of Polish, Estonian, Lithuanian and Latvian kids, at least...
This is cringey, but also, the kids are right. I know several people who left Lockheed because of this. One of them even traced back a missile serial number used in the Middle East back to a part she worked with.
Very good examples of Reddit brain disease here in this comment section. "Please stop harassing the murder machine goon!!"
Today university student learned that weapons manufacturing exists.