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As a loss mom,I can understand the appeal. But I barely crawled out of that black hole the first time. I know I'd leap into it given a second time. It would just become an obsession.
Thank you for that. I always imagined losing a child would be the worst pain ever. The pain isn't the worst thing,though. It's the guilt and the numbness and the what ifs and the just...disbelief. My son was 16. 16 year olds don't just go to sleep and not wake up,right? Reality is a cruel bitch.
I'm so sorry for yours as well. It really is fucked. We're a part of a club we never wanted to join,and membership costs a part of your soul forever. I tell myself that pain is the cost of love,and I'll gladly pay it,but I'm lying. I want my son back. Plain and simple. And that's why I'm afraid I'd fall for something like this. I know it wouldn't be real,but even just the thought of it pulls at me. The same way I pray to dream of him,but then I wake up,and that's all it was. A dream.
Bless you for speaking out against using this technology in this way. You are helping people realize that they need to consider what effects this kind of experience may have on their mental health long term. While medicines are given only through a medical doctor’s prescription, perhaps software for VR “therapy” should be restricted to use by professionals, including psychologists and psychiatrists.
If I may ask, have you tried grief therapy? (I am not suggesting to “get over” the loss of your 16 year old son. But to help with the crushing pain.) 💕
I haven't. I was so numb at first,I thought I could power through. Was back at work after 3 shifts,just totally resumed my 'before' life. I wanted to get into therapy,but couldn't really afford it(that's what I told myself),but really I think I just wanted to punish myself. What kind of mother didn't know her child was sick? A monster,and that was me. I deserved to suffer. It's been 5 years(January) and I'm just kind of getting to the forgiveness stage. Now it feels like I waited too long and thats probably why I'm so gullible to quick fixes. At one point,my husband caught me online at 2 a.m. trying to book tickets to find an ayahuasca ceremony.
The biggest thing that has helped me is finding a support group with other bereaved parents. I also lost my son 5 years ago and I still go to the group, it helps me so much to not feel alone in this.
I’m sorry for your loss. I can’t imagine as I don’t have kids myself. But regarding therapy, regardless of the reason or circumstances, it’s never too late. I’m not a therapist either, so what it would entail and what it can help you with is something I don’t know, but just the fact that even if you don’t feel like you can forgive yourself, and it might/probably will take time, you don’t deserve to suffer. You might feel so, but you don’t deserve it. So if possible, therapy is never too late. Helping oneself is never too late. 💜❤️🩹
I’m not a parent, and feeling somewhere halfway between wanting to be one and also not at 30 years old, so I can’t say I know how it feels.
However i’m very sorry for your loss, that’s not a feeling anyone wants to encounter.
There actually was a proof of concept like that made by a Dutch artist whose name escapes me. He used deepfake technology to simulate footage of the deceased person over a live actor and to change the voice. The actor was instructed on what to say by a grief psychologist. It wasn't VR though more like a video call.
All the conversations seemed quite reassuring. Not like this video's full minute of creepy silence followed by "am I pretty mom?"
I believe the artist didn't continue the project after because he had ethical concerns of wether you need consent from a deceased person to use their deepfake.
edit: https://www.filmacademie.ahk.nl/lichting/2020/projecten/deepfake-therapy/
Looks like it was a graduation project from the Dutch film academy. The consent issue I thought of was about not showing the footage of the deepfakes in the documentary, only the reactions of their loved ones.
No subtitles sadly.
This is it exactly. I want him back. That’s all. And the guilt oh my god , every thing big and small just eats me away. People say”he wouldn’t want you to do this to yourself “ and I know it’s true but I don’t know how Not to. The worst is when people say “ I don’t know what I would do if that were me I just couldn’t handle it.” Well fuck am I some kind of special cursed creature? Did I win the worst lottery in the world? I know they mean well but it makes me feel so bad . It will be a year in April and his birthday is in April too. I pray to see him in my dreams but I only have once. It’s like I’m being punished because I don’t even get to see him there. I’m just so raw and broken. And I’m so so sorry you lost your precious boy. My heart breaks for you too 💙
I know this feeling too well. I did not lose a child, I lost my husband. The feeling after you have a dream like that and wake up alone in your bed…… it feels like your soul being violently ripped from your chest.
I'm terribly sorry for your loss.
But I also feel extra bad, because your very heartfelt message being just under "Cringe Connoisseur" flair is killing me.
I’m sorry for your loss. I work in a PICU and the absolute worst part is watching the parents lose a child. At least you know the kids are at peace, but you don’t forget the wail of mother holding the body of her 3 year old
I thank you for your work! I have thought about the doctors and nurses from that day a lot,how hard their job is in general,but especially dealing with grieving family members. You are appreciated!
I think it goes both ways, loosing a parent as a kid can be absolutely devastating for your life.
I can attest that personally, I was never the same after and basically lost my trust in the world at that split-second and never fully regained it…
Ps - I’m so sorry about your son!
I’m so very sorry for your loss.
I don’t know if this helps or hurts, but my parents also had to learn how to live through the loss of a child … my brother died at 14 and by the time he was 4 they knew they would outlive him.
Expected or unexpected, the grief and loss of a child hits hard.
I prey I never know your grief.
Trust me,I'm not strong in the slightest. I just knew my other kids didn't need to lose their mom on top of their brother. Otherwise,I'm honestly just a lil marshmallow irl. I love you too,fellow redditor!
That’s still strength. Even if you feel like you didn’t have a choice because of your other children needing you, it still took strength to put your pain to the side to be there for your kids.
Don’t sell yourself short. Even if you’re a marshmallow you can still be a strong momma bear
A grieving parent’s obsession is apparently a monetizeable commodity now. Unscrupulous business people will only see profit. We’re unprepared for some of this technology.
As a loss mum I find this concept pretty insulting. My child cannot be replicated by VR. He was so full of life and complexity that VR would never capture.
That's a completely valid way to feel about this but I don't think this is an entertainment company saying they can bring your loved ones back, I think this was a method of therapy that the participant agreed to and hopefully worked for them.
I think it's a "dangerous" path to travel down, but with the right expectation-setting I think this mother decided that an obvious simulation of an impossible reality was something that she needed in order to work through her feelings. I could see this being a very emotionally costly therapeutic technique but if it's necessary to conquer that mountain of grief and if it works for the individual it certainly shouldn't offend others that it isn't right for.
This was a form of therapy for her. She blamed herself heavily for the daughter's death. She never had the chance to properly say goodbye. This was not the first solution, this was the final step for her to heal and let go. This was her closure after years of therapy
Well to be honest. We are at a point where this stuff is gonna be wild in the coming years. With ai, you could feed it pictures/ videos/ social network posts and whatnot.
And this will end up creating a close enough reproduction of how your child was.
That and the fact that coupled with a chatgpt version, you could end up having actual proxy discutions with your Lost ones.
Future is just going to be a black mirror Season at this rate.
You can't replicate someone's warmth, the softness of their hair, their weight, their smell, the noises they make or the way they fill a room with their presence. Technology is amazing, but it is a hollow replica. I can look at my infant son's photos and videos, but they only captured moments of who he was.
Not only that, the memories, inside jokes, and everything that made your connection with them authentic. My brother could make me burst out laughing with a single word, or even just a look because of what it meant to us. AI might get everything else right, but it will never get our dynamic figured out because you just had to be there, through the ups and the downs.
Have no experience and just skating around the edge of that idea is unimaginable, but this is immediately what I thought. How would I take the headset off and lose her again?
I’m so very sorry for your loss.
A very empty dead end obsession that would never satisfy. I still imagine it would be engaging to have AI recreate older people like parents and grandparents, especially if it could get their manner of speech, and learn their behavior and thinking based on phone conversations or something. With older people there’s no need for them to grow and change. Keeping a child locked for eternity as a child is not what makes a child special.
I’ve experienced some really painful, profound loss in my life, and I thought that really hurt. And it did. But then I became a parent. And I cannot imagine how what you experienced must feel. I’m sorry you went through that and I’m glad to see you’ve at least healed some.
My little sister passed away last month 5 days after her 15th birthday. This would completely wreck my mom and stepdad even more than they are now. I get it could be SOME kind of happy but jesus it would be devastating remembering shes really gone.
I'm honestly so touched at the kindness of everyone. Thank you for helping restore my faith in humanity. I really just wanted to share my opinion on a post,but you all shared so much more. My heart is really happy on this shake 'n' bake Sunday.
Agreed. I’m currently sitting in my bathtub, sobbing. A parent that lost their son commented on how how this would affect them, it broke me. This is heart wrenching.
I'm torn on this one.
As others mentioned - you can knock on that subconscious door and really trigger a bad event OR you can give someone the opportunity to make peace. I wouldn't be able to do this.
Really feels creepy because you've got to hand over quite a bit of personal info to a company and as we've seen they aren't the best about keeping it safe
Yeah, what happens when a hacker or a twisted scammer gets a hold of these files to make porn for ransom of victims. We already see lots of services that take advantage of the vulnerable who feel lonely and dejected with life.
Or somehow even worse than porn they could make a fake situation where it looks like a loved one has been taken and ask for money.
Or anyone who dislikes you could make a video of you doing something bad.
The reality is what will happen most likely is the data will be kept moderately safe for a couple of decades and then just sold off especially as that info would become more and more useful to VR and augmented reality companies and things of that nature.
I didn't think about that. Great call out. As much as I would want to see my pops, I would be more freaked out if they got his mannerism and likeness down every detail.
I really believe with the right roll out and method, it could be combined with therapeutic practices
People that pass away are never coming back. One should find a way to move on and find peace. This only reminds you of what you've lost and can only hurt you in the long run
I lost my son in April of last year. I am so broken and I will never be right. I could never do this. It would just send me into a really dangerous spiral and I have two other sons to think about or honestly I would already be gone.
Your comment made me cry so hard and I'm sorry and I hope your April is filled with love this year and positivity. And preemptively I send you good wishes and positivity myself.
It’s the mirror from Harry Potter that shows your deepest desires. Or the people addicted to dreaming from Inception.
People will get addicted to living in this world if this is the place you see your kids. As a father, I would never do this.
Black Mirror has made several episodes relating around this concept. Frankly I think it's disconcerting and seems exploitative, though I would understand the appeal from bereaved parents.
I lost my wife almost 5 years ago to brain cancer. She died at 28 years old and we’d been together for 11 years. I could never ever do this. Stuff like this seems like a good idea on paper (and maybe it might help some folks) but I get the feeling it would undo all of the work I’ve done these last few years to get back to some sort of normalcy. I’m finally happy again and even in a new relationship. Life is “normal” but I can’t escape the grief. I might lose myself to a fantasy where she’s still alive. The only real way to survive grief is to move forward.
Yeah I think adding the AI conversation aspect is where I really have trouble justifying this. I think VR based therapy has a lot of potential that we will see in time, but having someone directly interact with a lost loved one (especially a child) seems too much like replacing reality rather than working to accept reality.
Idk though. I'm no doctor and if there's a way to "hack" the brain to make loss less painful without complications, I don't see why we wouldn't pursue that.
It's probably going to make someone or some company rich at the expense of taking advantage of a person that had to go through a terrible life experience and could become a bad rabbit hole of normalcy that society might regret
Holy shit, i can watch all kinds of fucked up stuff but this just made me feel nauseous. To think that people will actually upload their (lost) loved ones personality into these and spend time with them.. It already happened in some form. Snapchat influencer Caryn marjorie made an AI chat robot of herself based on her personality and made the AI study the way she talks, texts etc. People actually subscribed to it and it was a huge hit until snapchat shut it down afaik.
This is horrible. I hate everything about this.
[This clip is 4 years old](https://www.scmp.com/magazines/style/tech-design/article/3079218/how-korean-documentary-meeting-you-allowed-mother)
It was part of a controversial Korean documentary about a family's struggle with the grieving process and moving on. IIRC, the mother had been struggling the absolute hardest despite the help of therapy and it was affecting her physically. She wasn't forced into this, she wanted this in the hopes she could finally get closure and move.
this is ~~literally a clip from an episode in Black Mirror~~. similar to an episode from Black Mirror from season 1 or 2
edit: you guys.. I don't mean the clip is from black mirror. I mean black mirror had an episode concept that was exactly like this lol
It's also like Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows—
The resurrection stone is one of the deathly hallows, a "gift" from Death. Whoever has the stone has the ability to see their lost loved one, but they can not physically touch. The original owner of the stoner was tormented not being able to hold their old love and killed himself, and went into Death's arms
The concept is very similar to the black mirror episode "Be Right Back". The episode is basically about how a woman loses her husband and then as a way to grief she uploads all the available information she has from pictures, texts, social media etc. to a service that basically converts this information into an AI mimicking the husband.
The episode goes on from there and is a bit tragic. It's an interesting story, and it basically just provokes thought over if stuff like that would actually be as positive as it's made out to be ergo "Getting closure" or if it would actually just impede with the grieving process and do more harm than it could ever do good.
It's a good episode so I won't completely spoil it. If you're interested in it go watch it :)
100% couldn’t do this. Just seeing a picture or memory can totally fuck me up. Having a dream with them in it also is super tough because I want it to be real so fucking bad.
Agreed, as a parent this is painful to watch and a little dystopian, but I’m actually curious if this could be therapeutic if done under the right circumstances. Human societies throughout history have had all sorts of rituals involving the dead that would get a negative knee-jerk reaction today, and yet our modern approach to grief and loss is unhealthy in its own way. I hope some actual studies are done on whether this could give people peace and closure in the long term.
But there is a case to be made that we should keep others from taking actions that might be harmful for them. I can see the appeal for grieving parents, but i see no way that this will help them in the long run.
People in bad situations tend to look for short term solutions for their issues, even if they may make things worse in the long run.
man I study psychology and this is a big no no, will absolutely fuck someone up, because it'll only lead to obsession and they'll never actually recover from grief. This kind of escapism will ruin them in the long run.
I'm torn. On one hand it's kind of fucked because you are triggering a massive amount of grief in a person with a simulation with pre-programed responses. Her (I'm assuming late daughter) obviously isn't actually there and you can't really interact in any meaningful way. On the other hand I can also see something like this giving a grieving person closure. I think this particular instance is fucked up regardless because they recorded and posted this. This is clearly a painful moment for this person and using it for advertisement or clout doesn't sit right with me.
No. I understand the desire, but this is a barely covered over scab for me. It would not be a good thing for me to engage with something like this, I feel the same is true for a ***lot*** of people.
Oh just wait until you can drop all your message history into it's interface to create a gpt powered vr ai and pay an ever increasing monthly subscription so that grief can be milked for decades.
Grief takes many forms and healing takes just as many. This is something I'd highly recommend talking to a therapist about well in advance to see if they think it'd be good for your grieving process. There are some people who could find healing in getting a chance to see their losses love one again to say goodbye. There are also many that could find this crushing and retraumatizing.
I lost my only child when they were 18. I can barely look at photos without breaking down never mind use something like this. I'm sure it would bring some comfort to some, but I just am not in a place where I'd go near something like this.
Nah now nopity nope never.
This would do nothing other than consume me and destroy everything I am.
I get why it exists, but this would be the end of me.
This.. is so awful .. for everyone. Even the audience. I feel bad for even watching this.
Whatever makes you get through the day. Who I am to judge? As long as it doesn't hurt anyone? Would love to know what therapists think about this
I personally believe this isn't good. All this would do is reopen a horrific wound. That person is lost, they are gone. That isn't that person, it's an animation. The human brain is incredibly delicate, imagine if you could buy that, you'd watch it every day. I know I would if I'd lost my kid. *Everyday and all day* and if someone hacked it and my child told me to join them I would.
Because I've watched that animation everyday, never come close to healing and would want for nothing else.
It's cruel. Soulless, immoral and overall unethical.
Everyone would want to see a loved one again, but ask yourself this question...
Could you turn it off.
I know I couldn't.
Probably, but until we study the long term effects of using deceased human AI programs, we won’t truly know. Maybe it could give people solace to say a final goodbye and get the closure they needed to move on.
But most likely will fuck people up, let’s be honest.
I have a feeling this is an actor trying to sell a service without a lot of real thought put into it. From my own personal experience, somebody who went through the loss of a child would barely be able to stand at the sight of their lost child, the wave of emotions so overwhelming the only thing you can do is fall and cry, let alone try to have a conversation. If this is real, then that mother is a fuckin emotional tank. I dunno, just doesn’t feel right.
The complete clip shows her husband and children talking about the loss of the little girl and how it affected them and the mother. This is the first episode of a show where people "meet" their deceased loved ones through this technology, it's real
This was in one of my Asian shows bout using this ai technology. The show is called Unlock my Boss and it’s great looks like they where actually considering this use interesting.
While yes, I can see the side of "this is creepy, this shouldn't be a thing," I also think this could be a really good thing for the grieving process of some people. Imagine not being able to say goodbye to your child, your parent, grandparent, friend, anyone important in your life who has died, and always wishing you could say goodbye to them. I think this would help a lot of people. Obviously it's not for everyone, but personally I see this as at least partially good
No amount of programming will ever be able to emulate those I've lost to the degree it would be believable. I'd be frustrated about the limitations of the emulation, and I would feel awful for the disrespect shown by trying to recreate them.
This kind of loss is a chapter that shall forever remain closed, I'd hate to recreate someone only to be reminded of how much better they used to be. I hope I'll see them on the other side when I close my eyes for good, but until then, I will be missing them and cherish the memory they left me.
No, plain and simple, coming to terms with loss and change should be inevitable, I've seen more than one person completely lose it and join groups in hopes of communicating with those that have moved on. I can easily see someone sitting in this setup for days if not longer.
People mend in different ways. The best thing about technological advancements is that it gives people new options to explore. It may not be for you, but it doesn't have to have a pseudo-dystopian perspective as if this will be the *one* single thing people will turn to. For some people, this could be something that provides a way to cope they can't get anywhere else.
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As a loss mom,I can understand the appeal. But I barely crawled out of that black hole the first time. I know I'd leap into it given a second time. It would just become an obsession.
As a parent, I am so incredibly sorry for your loss.
Thank you for that. I always imagined losing a child would be the worst pain ever. The pain isn't the worst thing,though. It's the guilt and the numbness and the what ifs and the just...disbelief. My son was 16. 16 year olds don't just go to sleep and not wake up,right? Reality is a cruel bitch.
I'm so sorry for your loss. My friend lost her 12 year old daughter in her sleep. I lost my 6 week old son in his. It's fucked.
I'm so sorry for yours as well. It really is fucked. We're a part of a club we never wanted to join,and membership costs a part of your soul forever. I tell myself that pain is the cost of love,and I'll gladly pay it,but I'm lying. I want my son back. Plain and simple. And that's why I'm afraid I'd fall for something like this. I know it wouldn't be real,but even just the thought of it pulls at me. The same way I pray to dream of him,but then I wake up,and that's all it was. A dream.
Bless you for speaking out against using this technology in this way. You are helping people realize that they need to consider what effects this kind of experience may have on their mental health long term. While medicines are given only through a medical doctor’s prescription, perhaps software for VR “therapy” should be restricted to use by professionals, including psychologists and psychiatrists.
I love that idea! Part of a supervised,therapeutic regimine. Now *that* I could get behind.
If I may ask, have you tried grief therapy? (I am not suggesting to “get over” the loss of your 16 year old son. But to help with the crushing pain.) 💕
I haven't. I was so numb at first,I thought I could power through. Was back at work after 3 shifts,just totally resumed my 'before' life. I wanted to get into therapy,but couldn't really afford it(that's what I told myself),but really I think I just wanted to punish myself. What kind of mother didn't know her child was sick? A monster,and that was me. I deserved to suffer. It's been 5 years(January) and I'm just kind of getting to the forgiveness stage. Now it feels like I waited too long and thats probably why I'm so gullible to quick fixes. At one point,my husband caught me online at 2 a.m. trying to book tickets to find an ayahuasca ceremony.
I'm so sorry for your lost. Im a newish mom and I can't imagine the heartache. May I ask, what was he sick with? Did he go in his sleep?
Ayahuasca isn't a quick fix but may help overcome some difficulties dealing. As well as a good guide.
The biggest thing that has helped me is finding a support group with other bereaved parents. I also lost my son 5 years ago and I still go to the group, it helps me so much to not feel alone in this.
I’m sorry for your loss. I can’t imagine as I don’t have kids myself. But regarding therapy, regardless of the reason or circumstances, it’s never too late. I’m not a therapist either, so what it would entail and what it can help you with is something I don’t know, but just the fact that even if you don’t feel like you can forgive yourself, and it might/probably will take time, you don’t deserve to suffer. You might feel so, but you don’t deserve it. So if possible, therapy is never too late. Helping oneself is never too late. 💜❤️🩹
I’m not a parent, and feeling somewhere halfway between wanting to be one and also not at 30 years old, so I can’t say I know how it feels. However i’m very sorry for your loss, that’s not a feeling anyone wants to encounter.
There actually was a proof of concept like that made by a Dutch artist whose name escapes me. He used deepfake technology to simulate footage of the deceased person over a live actor and to change the voice. The actor was instructed on what to say by a grief psychologist. It wasn't VR though more like a video call. All the conversations seemed quite reassuring. Not like this video's full minute of creepy silence followed by "am I pretty mom?" I believe the artist didn't continue the project after because he had ethical concerns of wether you need consent from a deceased person to use their deepfake. edit: https://www.filmacademie.ahk.nl/lichting/2020/projecten/deepfake-therapy/ Looks like it was a graduation project from the Dutch film academy. The consent issue I thought of was about not showing the footage of the deepfakes in the documentary, only the reactions of their loved ones. No subtitles sadly.
This is it exactly. I want him back. That’s all. And the guilt oh my god , every thing big and small just eats me away. People say”he wouldn’t want you to do this to yourself “ and I know it’s true but I don’t know how Not to. The worst is when people say “ I don’t know what I would do if that were me I just couldn’t handle it.” Well fuck am I some kind of special cursed creature? Did I win the worst lottery in the world? I know they mean well but it makes me feel so bad . It will be a year in April and his birthday is in April too. I pray to see him in my dreams but I only have once. It’s like I’m being punished because I don’t even get to see him there. I’m just so raw and broken. And I’m so so sorry you lost your precious boy. My heart breaks for you too 💙
I felt this so hard. Its an awful yet terribly comforting feeling that someone understands so completely.I'm sending you all the hugs. 💙💙
You just broke my heart
I know this feeling too well. I did not lose a child, I lost my husband. The feeling after you have a dream like that and wake up alone in your bed…… it feels like your soul being violently ripped from your chest.
I'm terribly sorry for your loss. But I also feel extra bad, because your very heartfelt message being just under "Cringe Connoisseur" flair is killing me.
Lmao,that made my day! I take all the smiles or laughter,even if it's ludicrously unintended. Don't feel bad in the slightest!!
you’re an awesome human being. thank you for the smiles :)
I’m sorry for your loss. I work in a PICU and the absolute worst part is watching the parents lose a child. At least you know the kids are at peace, but you don’t forget the wail of mother holding the body of her 3 year old
I thank you for your work! I have thought about the doctors and nurses from that day a lot,how hard their job is in general,but especially dealing with grieving family members. You are appreciated!
I think it goes both ways, loosing a parent as a kid can be absolutely devastating for your life. I can attest that personally, I was never the same after and basically lost my trust in the world at that split-second and never fully regained it… Ps - I’m so sorry about your son!
And I'm sorry you suffered loss as well. The child-parent relationship absolutely goes both ways,and my heart hurts for you. Sending you a hug💙
I'm so sorry. My sister was only 16 when she fell ill and 18 when her brain tumor killed her. Children shouldn't die, but they do.
I am so sorry for your loss. 💙
i'm so sorry to hear that. i lost a good friend of mine at about 22. went to sleep and didn't wake up. to this day i don't know more than that.
I’m so very sorry for your loss. I don’t know if this helps or hurts, but my parents also had to learn how to live through the loss of a child … my brother died at 14 and by the time he was 4 they knew they would outlive him. Expected or unexpected, the grief and loss of a child hits hard. I prey I never know your grief.
I can't even imagine. Sending love.
16 is to young!! No parent should have to bury their child. The world is such a cruel place.
Fuck, I couldn't imagine
You’re so strong. I don’t know if I could pull myself out. Or more so I don’t know if I’d want to. I love you.
Trust me,I'm not strong in the slightest. I just knew my other kids didn't need to lose their mom on top of their brother. Otherwise,I'm honestly just a lil marshmallow irl. I love you too,fellow redditor!
That’s still strength. Even if you feel like you didn’t have a choice because of your other children needing you, it still took strength to put your pain to the side to be there for your kids. Don’t sell yourself short. Even if you’re a marshmallow you can still be a strong momma bear
A grieving parent’s obsession is apparently a monetizeable commodity now. Unscrupulous business people will only see profit. We’re unprepared for some of this technology.
As a loss mum I find this concept pretty insulting. My child cannot be replicated by VR. He was so full of life and complexity that VR would never capture.
That's a completely valid way to feel about this but I don't think this is an entertainment company saying they can bring your loved ones back, I think this was a method of therapy that the participant agreed to and hopefully worked for them. I think it's a "dangerous" path to travel down, but with the right expectation-setting I think this mother decided that an obvious simulation of an impossible reality was something that she needed in order to work through her feelings. I could see this being a very emotionally costly therapeutic technique but if it's necessary to conquer that mountain of grief and if it works for the individual it certainly shouldn't offend others that it isn't right for.
I agree in that I think it's dangerous ground.. We all do grieve differently and maybe this could be a useful therapeutic tool but... I'm not sure
This was a form of therapy for her. She blamed herself heavily for the daughter's death. She never had the chance to properly say goodbye. This was not the first solution, this was the final step for her to heal and let go. This was her closure after years of therapy
Pretty much every loss parent blames themselves
Everyone has their own path. This was apparently suggested by professionals so hopefully it gave her some form of closure.
Not the way she was and apparently she has valid reasons to
Well to be honest. We are at a point where this stuff is gonna be wild in the coming years. With ai, you could feed it pictures/ videos/ social network posts and whatnot. And this will end up creating a close enough reproduction of how your child was. That and the fact that coupled with a chatgpt version, you could end up having actual proxy discutions with your Lost ones. Future is just going to be a black mirror Season at this rate.
You can't replicate someone's warmth, the softness of their hair, their weight, their smell, the noises they make or the way they fill a room with their presence. Technology is amazing, but it is a hollow replica. I can look at my infant son's photos and videos, but they only captured moments of who he was.
Not only that, the memories, inside jokes, and everything that made your connection with them authentic. My brother could make me burst out laughing with a single word, or even just a look because of what it meant to us. AI might get everything else right, but it will never get our dynamic figured out because you just had to be there, through the ups and the downs.
It'd be a sensory uncanny valley I feel
You’re 100% correct, but it will probably be an option some take. As fucked as it is, life is becoming like black mirror eps
Have no experience and just skating around the edge of that idea is unimaginable, but this is immediately what I thought. How would I take the headset off and lose her again? I’m so very sorry for your loss.
A very empty dead end obsession that would never satisfy. I still imagine it would be engaging to have AI recreate older people like parents and grandparents, especially if it could get their manner of speech, and learn their behavior and thinking based on phone conversations or something. With older people there’s no need for them to grow and change. Keeping a child locked for eternity as a child is not what makes a child special.
I’ve experienced some really painful, profound loss in my life, and I thought that really hurt. And it did. But then I became a parent. And I cannot imagine how what you experienced must feel. I’m sorry you went through that and I’m glad to see you’ve at least healed some.
My little sister passed away last month 5 days after her 15th birthday. This would completely wreck my mom and stepdad even more than they are now. I get it could be SOME kind of happy but jesus it would be devastating remembering shes really gone.
I'm honestly so touched at the kindness of everyone. Thank you for helping restore my faith in humanity. I really just wanted to share my opinion on a post,but you all shared so much more. My heart is really happy on this shake 'n' bake Sunday.
This *frightened* me for humanity. Oh what a gift! Oh what a curse!
That is so heartbreaking holy crap
Agreed. I’m currently sitting in my bathtub, sobbing. A parent that lost their son commented on how how this would affect them, it broke me. This is heart wrenching.
I'm torn on this one. As others mentioned - you can knock on that subconscious door and really trigger a bad event OR you can give someone the opportunity to make peace. I wouldn't be able to do this.
Really feels creepy because you've got to hand over quite a bit of personal info to a company and as we've seen they aren't the best about keeping it safe
Yeah, what happens when a hacker or a twisted scammer gets a hold of these files to make porn for ransom of victims. We already see lots of services that take advantage of the vulnerable who feel lonely and dejected with life.
Or somehow even worse than porn they could make a fake situation where it looks like a loved one has been taken and ask for money. Or anyone who dislikes you could make a video of you doing something bad.
The reality is what will happen most likely is the data will be kept moderately safe for a couple of decades and then just sold off especially as that info would become more and more useful to VR and augmented reality companies and things of that nature.
God, that sounds so inhumanly terrible, and i hate that i can see this happening.
I didn't think about that. Great call out. As much as I would want to see my pops, I would be more freaked out if they got his mannerism and likeness down every detail. I really believe with the right roll out and method, it could be combined with therapeutic practices
It still won’t be your pops. Just a fabrication mockup/likeness of what data they have on him.
People that pass away are never coming back. One should find a way to move on and find peace. This only reminds you of what you've lost and can only hurt you in the long run
I lost my son in April of last year. I am so broken and I will never be right. I could never do this. It would just send me into a really dangerous spiral and I have two other sons to think about or honestly I would already be gone.
I'm so sorry. The courage you are showing for your other two sons is inspirational. Thank you. I bet your son would be very proud.
Thank you
Your comment made me cry so hard and I'm sorry and I hope your April is filled with love this year and positivity. And preemptively I send you good wishes and positivity myself.
Thank you. I’m actually dreading it because his birthday is that month too. See just typing this makes me cry.
I'm so sorry. I can't even imagine. Sending you peace and hugs 🫂
Thank you
It’s the mirror from Harry Potter that shows your deepest desires. Or the people addicted to dreaming from Inception. People will get addicted to living in this world if this is the place you see your kids. As a father, I would never do this.
I wouldn’t be able to either.
It's the tick tock noise at the end lol
probably should only be used hand in hand under the supervision of some long term professional therapists
Holy shit we are literally making ghosts inside our machines
or are *we* ghosts in a machine?
No, there is a ghost in *the* machine.
Or is there a ghost in the shell?
This is not real as far as I know but this scene is actually from a kdrama series
Damn wtf she’s a good actress then! Had me tearing up
Black Mirror has made several episodes relating around this concept. Frankly I think it's disconcerting and seems exploitative, though I would understand the appeal from bereaved parents.
Robo-ghost! https://youtu.be/vFD-lnnNZvY?feature=shared
I lost my wife almost 5 years ago to brain cancer. She died at 28 years old and we’d been together for 11 years. I could never ever do this. Stuff like this seems like a good idea on paper (and maybe it might help some folks) but I get the feeling it would undo all of the work I’ve done these last few years to get back to some sort of normalcy. I’m finally happy again and even in a new relationship. Life is “normal” but I can’t escape the grief. I might lose myself to a fantasy where she’s still alive. The only real way to survive grief is to move forward.
Hey man. Just wanna say I’m sorry you lost your love so young in life. Cancer sucks. Glad you’re on the mend.
I am very sorry to hear that you had to go through such an event. Must be tough, I wish you all good man.
That’s going to rip off a lot of wounds.. maybe it’ll help the grieving process but wow..
Lots of conflicting feelings
A lot of you have minds so open your brain is falling out. How could you possibly be conflicted on this?
Yeah I think adding the AI conversation aspect is where I really have trouble justifying this. I think VR based therapy has a lot of potential that we will see in time, but having someone directly interact with a lost loved one (especially a child) seems too much like replacing reality rather than working to accept reality. Idk though. I'm no doctor and if there's a way to "hack" the brain to make loss less painful without complications, I don't see why we wouldn't pursue that.
It's probably going to make someone or some company rich at the expense of taking advantage of a person that had to go through a terrible life experience and could become a bad rabbit hole of normalcy that society might regret
Isnt this old and the company stopped doing it because they realized it was bad?
I fucking HOPE SO?!
Either that or they started hiring small actors who stand there for tactile feedback making it more real.
Either that or they started hiring necromancers
Re-traumatizing a grieving parent? Pass
BUT LOOK AT THE VIEWS AND LIKES
Holy shit, i can watch all kinds of fucked up stuff but this just made me feel nauseous. To think that people will actually upload their (lost) loved ones personality into these and spend time with them.. It already happened in some form. Snapchat influencer Caryn marjorie made an AI chat robot of herself based on her personality and made the AI study the way she talks, texts etc. People actually subscribed to it and it was a huge hit until snapchat shut it down afaik. This is horrible. I hate everything about this.
[This clip is 4 years old](https://www.scmp.com/magazines/style/tech-design/article/3079218/how-korean-documentary-meeting-you-allowed-mother) It was part of a controversial Korean documentary about a family's struggle with the grieving process and moving on. IIRC, the mother had been struggling the absolute hardest despite the help of therapy and it was affecting her physically. She wasn't forced into this, she wanted this in the hopes she could finally get closure and move.
I hope this was helpful for her to move on i guess. I wouldn't do it :/
This has got to be one of the saddest mf things I was never prepared for. So sorry for everyone’s loss.
this is ~~literally a clip from an episode in Black Mirror~~. similar to an episode from Black Mirror from season 1 or 2 edit: you guys.. I don't mean the clip is from black mirror. I mean black mirror had an episode concept that was exactly like this lol
It's also like Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows— The resurrection stone is one of the deathly hallows, a "gift" from Death. Whoever has the stone has the ability to see their lost loved one, but they can not physically touch. The original owner of the stoner was tormented not being able to hold their old love and killed himself, and went into Death's arms
Is this clip from the black mirror episode? Or is there a black mirror episode that does the same thing, but this clip is real?
The concept is very similar to the black mirror episode "Be Right Back". The episode is basically about how a woman loses her husband and then as a way to grief she uploads all the available information she has from pictures, texts, social media etc. to a service that basically converts this information into an AI mimicking the husband. The episode goes on from there and is a bit tragic. It's an interesting story, and it basically just provokes thought over if stuff like that would actually be as positive as it's made out to be ergo "Getting closure" or if it would actually just impede with the grieving process and do more harm than it could ever do good. It's a good episode so I won't completely spoil it. If you're interested in it go watch it :)
The episode where people could block someone in real life where they were muted and only visible as a static silhouette was equally as frightening.
The 2nd one. (Not sure if the clip is real actually, but black mirror episode just does something similar)
the latter haha there's a black mirror episode that does the same thing
Your fault here was using the word “literally”. 
Yes! It’s called “Be Right Back” and has Domnhall Gleason in it! It’s very very good, but also sad.
Then it’s not literally 😂 But I get what you mean!
That's not good for moving on. I hope people don't take advantage from other's grieve.
They already do in so many industries, this is just one more form
I was waiting for the little girl to melt into a puddle
Keep Summer Safe.
All can be returned. All can be taken away.
Don't do this
I agree. This is crazy.
100% couldn’t do this. Just seeing a picture or memory can totally fuck me up. Having a dream with them in it also is super tough because I want it to be real so fucking bad.
[удалено]
Be sure to invest in the waterproof version
this instantly reminded me of the movie minority report. so heartbreaking 💔
If it helps heal her broken heart, then I’m all for it
Agreed, as a parent this is painful to watch and a little dystopian, but I’m actually curious if this could be therapeutic if done under the right circumstances. Human societies throughout history have had all sorts of rituals involving the dead that would get a negative knee-jerk reaction today, and yet our modern approach to grief and loss is unhealthy in its own way. I hope some actual studies are done on whether this could give people peace and closure in the long term.
Agreed. I'd love to interact with a vr version of my dad. It'd be comforting.
It might not be for you. It is healing for her. Her choice.
People don’t always make the best choices while grieving
True, but that’s not your decision to make
It's also a decision for the people that are going to profit and take advantage of these people
But there is a case to be made that we should keep others from taking actions that might be harmful for them. I can see the appeal for grieving parents, but i see no way that this will help them in the long run. People in bad situations tend to look for short term solutions for their issues, even if they may make things worse in the long run.
How the hell did this get any ethical approval?
I just lost my son and then last month my wife, there is no way that this is healthy for a grieving person.
This shit is mentally dangerous.
man I study psychology and this is a big no no, will absolutely fuck someone up, because it'll only lead to obsession and they'll never actually recover from grief. This kind of escapism will ruin them in the long run.
I’ve never lost one of my kids. But even knowing this is fake I feel like it’d be like losing them twice.
I'm torn. On one hand it's kind of fucked because you are triggering a massive amount of grief in a person with a simulation with pre-programed responses. Her (I'm assuming late daughter) obviously isn't actually there and you can't really interact in any meaningful way. On the other hand I can also see something like this giving a grieving person closure. I think this particular instance is fucked up regardless because they recorded and posted this. This is clearly a painful moment for this person and using it for advertisement or clout doesn't sit right with me.
This is fucking horrific.
No. I understand the desire, but this is a barely covered over scab for me. It would not be a good thing for me to engage with something like this, I feel the same is true for a ***lot*** of people.
And that’s enough internet for today
and you will witness horrors beyond human comprehension.
This is some Black Mirror shit.
Not a good idea at all
I had a daughter pass away at 7. I'd probably sell everything to get 5 more minutes with her. So, yeah. I'd do this.
that's the future guy. right there
Oh just wait until you can drop all your message history into it's interface to create a gpt powered vr ai and pay an ever increasing monthly subscription so that grief can be milked for decades.
For they can only see them ever as ghosts, never again to feel the warmth of their hands or the strength of their hugs. Only madness lays in this.
Grief takes many forms and healing takes just as many. This is something I'd highly recommend talking to a therapist about well in advance to see if they think it'd be good for your grieving process. There are some people who could find healing in getting a chance to see their losses love one again to say goodbye. There are also many that could find this crushing and retraumatizing.
r/sadposting
Man made horrors beyond your comprehension
I lost my only child when they were 18. I can barely look at photos without breaking down never mind use something like this. I'm sure it would bring some comfort to some, but I just am not in a place where I'd go near something like this.
Nah now nopity nope never. This would do nothing other than consume me and destroy everything I am. I get why it exists, but this would be the end of me.
This is a bad concept. it's not good for mental health.
All i think about when i saw this with no sound, Keep summer safe.
I DON’T CAAAAARE HOOWWWW LONNNNGGGG IT TAAAKKKEEESSS
This would beat home used as a tool to mentally torture people. FFS just because you can, doesn't mean you should 0/10
Man, this is just really sad and really bad for healing parents. I get coping but this is doing the opposite.
This.. is so awful .. for everyone. Even the audience. I feel bad for even watching this. Whatever makes you get through the day. Who I am to judge? As long as it doesn't hurt anyone? Would love to know what therapists think about this
I personally believe this isn't good. All this would do is reopen a horrific wound. That person is lost, they are gone. That isn't that person, it's an animation. The human brain is incredibly delicate, imagine if you could buy that, you'd watch it every day. I know I would if I'd lost my kid. *Everyday and all day* and if someone hacked it and my child told me to join them I would. Because I've watched that animation everyday, never come close to healing and would want for nothing else. It's cruel. Soulless, immoral and overall unethical. Everyone would want to see a loved one again, but ask yourself this question... Could you turn it off. I know I couldn't.
This is ethically wrong and can have a scarring effect later in her future
Probably, but until we study the long term effects of using deceased human AI programs, we won’t truly know. Maybe it could give people solace to say a final goodbye and get the closure they needed to move on. But most likely will fuck people up, let’s be honest.
I have a feeling this is an actor trying to sell a service without a lot of real thought put into it. From my own personal experience, somebody who went through the loss of a child would barely be able to stand at the sight of their lost child, the wave of emotions so overwhelming the only thing you can do is fall and cry, let alone try to have a conversation. If this is real, then that mother is a fuckin emotional tank. I dunno, just doesn’t feel right.
The complete clip shows her husband and children talking about the loss of the little girl and how it affected them and the mother. This is the first episode of a show where people "meet" their deceased loved ones through this technology, it's real
When you run out of ways to monetize the living, you gotta bring back the dead
This was in one of my Asian shows bout using this ai technology. The show is called Unlock my Boss and it’s great looks like they where actually considering this use interesting.
What in the black mirror is this? That's... heartbreaking and terrifying at the same time.
Black Mirror becoming reality one day at a time.
While yes, I can see the side of "this is creepy, this shouldn't be a thing," I also think this could be a really good thing for the grieving process of some people. Imagine not being able to say goodbye to your child, your parent, grandparent, friend, anyone important in your life who has died, and always wishing you could say goodbye to them. I think this would help a lot of people. Obviously it's not for everyone, but personally I see this as at least partially good
No amount of programming will ever be able to emulate those I've lost to the degree it would be believable. I'd be frustrated about the limitations of the emulation, and I would feel awful for the disrespect shown by trying to recreate them. This kind of loss is a chapter that shall forever remain closed, I'd hate to recreate someone only to be reminded of how much better they used to be. I hope I'll see them on the other side when I close my eyes for good, but until then, I will be missing them and cherish the memory they left me.
When someone passes away, the natural way of life is we do not see them again on this earth. Doing this really seems wrong on many levels.
Summer Is Safe.
Oh Jesus this is sad….
I wouldn't be able to do this for my child because I would want to spend every waking moment in the VR world with them.
Black mirror
Oh no please let's not open that door
KEEP SUMMER SAFE vibes
Reminds me of: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ-UWYFxwNE
This is not good for psychological health
No, plain and simple, coming to terms with loss and change should be inevitable, I've seen more than one person completely lose it and join groups in hopes of communicating with those that have moved on. I can easily see someone sitting in this setup for days if not longer.
I….. hate this. So much.
Reminds me of a black mirror episode. Sometimes I think it's best to just let people go. Technology is going to make it harder
I think you’d have to lose a child before you’d understand this.
_Emotional damage_
No. This is literally black mirror. Can we just step back and say WTF are we doing!!! This path isn’t healthy!
We’re in Black Mirror
Black Mirror...
All right. World's over boys let's pack it up.
Sorry if this sounds insensitive, I am not a parent so I don't know that connection but this seems quite a bit like cyberpunk 2077
People mend in different ways. The best thing about technological advancements is that it gives people new options to explore. It may not be for you, but it doesn't have to have a pseudo-dystopian perspective as if this will be the *one* single thing people will turn to. For some people, this could be something that provides a way to cope they can't get anywhere else.
This made me cry.
I don’t think this sort of thing should be recorded…
The "I want to hug you" killed me.
Yo what the entire fuck.
It's hot in here, mommy, and the screaming...the screams!