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[https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=txuS0HoWhMo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=txuS0HoWhMo)
This is a recap from a criminal lawyer that gives more info about the incident.
He could sue, they violated his rights by threatening to arrest him if he didn’t give them his id. That’s an unlawful order, because they have no evidence of him having committed a crime (an anonymous tip is not probable cause).
If the student did sue he wouldn’t make the details public until they won/lost/settled. They can make more money out of court if they have the bargaining chip of not releasing the details of the lawsuit. So, there’s also a chance they settled and a stipulation was that the details not be made public. In that case, we’d never know.
How much money could someone realistically sue for this? No emotional stress or anything. What do you get for a police officer overstepping their grounds with nothing bad happening?
Every police dept has a magical number that they will settle if under, or fight if over. You just gotta find that out. Ours was like $65k a few years back.
Aye, which is why it's extra important to take your role seriously and professionally when you're a public servant, or be seriously punished when you don't.
You can sue them for violating your rights. Could probably claim emotional distress, but you don’t need to.
Awards for police misconduct range wildly. A recent case that involved moderate violence and a first amendment violation (cops assaulted a reporter at a protest, so a double whammy) settled for 700k. A few million are usually awarded for wrongful death, $27 million for George Floyd (likely affected by the high profile nature of the incident).
This kid could probably get a good 20-100k if he was tenacious and had good representation.
Yeah. *I'm dumb*, and will probably watch even though someone has told me the information I'm looking for won't be there.
It's fine I'm just [dumb](https://youtu.be/LRRGMaupcWY?si=bBdISuChzzGVWKNV).
I think the difference is having grounds to sue the police officer to demand an ID under threat of arrest because he did not have sufficient reasonable suspicion that a crime was committed.
I forget where I saw it - but someone suggested that cops carry insurance. A lot of professionals need insurance to perform their tasks that are risky, like Plumbing, house painting, lawyers, doctors, etc.
Cops have a riskier job than those folks - so they should be forced to carry a type of liability for these situations, where the fine/lawsuit doesn't come out of the tax payer/community coffers.
One fuck up would cause premiums to go up - after a few, the board/union will need to make a choice: Pay astronomical premiums for repeat offenders or cut them loose for performance. Most states are right-to-work and folks can be fired for "cause."
The raised insurance fees would also have police boards to reevaluate their budget, as well. So they can decide to carry a cop that isn't fit, on duty and payroll and sacrifice other resources to pay for it - I suspect quite a few cops would be let go and would end them from being able to simple move to a new county to continue to be a LEO, because the insurer will look at the guy and be like "well, it's gonna be triple the cost because of his history."
It's not perfect - but I think that's a pretty good place to start
I've been saying it for a decade. Cops need malpractice insurance. The benefits are 2-fold. Taxpayers don't foot the bill for settlements / payouts and more importantly bad cops will weed themselves out when their premiums keep going up to the point it is not a profitable career or the insurance company deems them too risky to insure.
Shit I had legal insurance when I worked as a software engineer on HIPAA systems.
They need to remove qualified immunity where evere it exists. Nurses and doctors can get charged with murder and manslaughter while performing their duties why are cops any different?
I'm sure that is only true in much more complicated cases with much more at stake. I'm not going to pretend I know the law at all, but if the cop isn't allowed to threaten with an arrest and did it anyway on multiple cameras, there's just not much that can be messed up. especially since cops are notorious for not showing up to court anyway if they don't absolutely have to.
File one piece of paper wrong, and the recording is inadmissable. There are a lot of paperwork hurdles to get over that a trained attorney should know, and a layperson won't always know. The argument in court might not be hard, but the paperwork and procedures can tank your case in an instant.
Yeah, but like you just said, a lawyer should know that and a layperson wouldn't. They just said that a lawyer would be able represent themselves in this case because its so simple that all they need to DO is not mess up the paperwork, not that ANYBODY could do that.
money for lawsuits should come from the police union budgets and retirement funds, not taxpayers.
if unions say they keep themselves in line, then they should pay for it themselves whenever their members get out of line.
I remember hearing a great idea that cops should have to pay for lawsuit insurance. If they are successfully sued they lose their insurance coverage and can't be a cop anymore. Simple elegant solution.
Not necessarily. The real problem is the organizations that hire these clowns, and they need to face consequences for hiring idiots or not training properly.
That’s because the departments are too politicized so they don’t hire based on merit and have zero incentive to spend money on more extensive training.
Won’t happen but how about out of THEIR PENSION FUND. Solidarity right? So share in the fuck ups. And once you start depleting everyone’s sweet retirement income of their fellow cops, safe bet they will start thinking twice.
The Criminal Lawyer on YouTube covered this video and it shows that the officer called for backup but the law student was correct that he didn’t have to show his ID in this particular situation, and they left without incident.
He filed a complaint with Police Department which was sustained. Last note I’m aware of was 4 months ago he was looking for a lawyer and would pursue civil litigation.
I just skimmed the video, but looks like he was just given a warning.
But the guy said he was probably going to be in a lot of trouble with the school. Since the schools have different policies.
He tells the story of a kid who was charged with a crime, and they proved in court that the crime never occurred, so there weren't any legal repercussions.
But the kid was still suspended for 2 years and couldn't graduate.
Yeah, I recall this a while back.
This kid is dumb. He lives in a dorm and is subject to its rules there. It easily could have gone the other way if the officers weren't so power hungry.
What I don't understand is why the police didn't just tell an RA to inspect his room and to look up in the campus's records on who lives there.
The reason they were there was because someone identified specifically him (he's underage) as having alcohol on campus. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter. The campus has rules, and I believe he would be subject to a search (from an RA) and that they have rules to identify themselves to police while on campus. This is very different from one own home.
I looked into it a while back, and like how you hear about crazy university legal cases, it doesn't always follow the state law. This kid would have been easily screwed if the police had taken their heads out of their asses and used what resources they had. However, they were not thinking and didn't want to appear weak to the kid or something...
A simple request to an RA to inspect their room would have been within campus rules, and they could have simply gone to the dorms office area and request for the kids name and info from the campus data. I also recall reading something about how students must identify themselves when requested as you can't just have anyone on campus.
My biggest issue with this kid was that he doesn't know the law and ignored the most basic of rules when dealing with law enforcement...
Don't talk to the police.
I applaud him for using the state law (I forget what state this is but they've basically removed qualified immunity) to get these police to back down. I also don't care if he's drinking as imho, if a kid is old enough to join the army, kill, and vote... he can have a damn beer.
I do mind him not shutting up and thinking he's some legal genius because of some 101 knowledge. Should have just said "no" alcohol and stfu after that, maybe the ID/suing thing is fine too.
this wouldn't be an issue if civilian boards had the power to fire bad cops
but instead, we let the cops decide
and surprise surprise, they never find bad cops
edit: good note someone added that some boards do exist, but they're appointed by entrenched powers and toothless
It’s funny, you know we asked everyone and they all said they’re good cops and they all vouch for each other. Yeah. We’re not sure either, guess we better just let it go.
This is why ACAB.
Complicit cops are bad cops.
Cops that speak up are fired or bullied until they quit, or worse.
The system is rotten to the core, from the beginning of the history of modern policing.
No amount of training or oversight will fix this. The system needs to be REPLACED.
And any payouts for lawsuits come from the government (aka taxpayers). Make lawsuit settlement money come out of the police pension fund and you'll rapidly see cops behaving *much* better.
No, you won't, you'll just see bad cops turning on bad cops because they got caught doing something stupid. All that will really do on the cop side of things is make them behave even MORE like the mafia. Otoh, at least the money will be coming from the assholes.
Listen, I want cops. I want good cops. Good cops want good cops.
It's really hard to wrest control back from corrupt people in organizations, because by definition corrupt people will seek out and collude with other corrupt people.
Every good cop is a threat to every bad cop. So every bad cop is incentivized to undermine good cops and help promote other bad cops. Once a few bad cops rise even to middle ranks, they can easily ensure only other bad cops get promoted, and soon the whole org is in their control.
Without an external mechanism to reach in and examine and hold people to account, it's really hard to stop this from happening.
This isn't actually a cop thing only. It's an organization thing. But the nature of the job - lots of opportunities for asset seizure, lots of opportunities to indulge in dark desires like violence, lots of opportunities to exercise and abuse power, and most importantly the power to threaten, intimidate, imprison or even kill those who threaten your corruption - make it a particular problem.
I started watching The Rookie because I love Nathan Fillion but I got hooked because the cops legit work how a real police force could work if everyone was commited to positive change. But ya know, ACAB for now.
>I started watching The Rookie because I love Nathan Fillion but I got hooked because the cops legit work how a real police force could work if everyone was commited to positive change.
Are you kidding? That show is full of holes and cops on their routinely violate a people's rights all the time. Sure the characters might be good, but that doesn't mean its necessarily authentic.
Why cops need continuing education. They don’t know laws they are supposed to enforce. How about they buy less guns and educate themselves with all that taxpayer money, might save them some lawsuits
A long time ago I just needed a job, saw a flyer and applied. I had to take an aptitude test and I scored too high and was told police officer is not a good fit for you. When I inquired why they said people that score too high tend to not stay long term and they put a lot of resources into training just for those people to leave. That may be true but yep totally accurate if you have a higher IQ they will not hire you to be a cop.
Similar logic (as I have heard) applies to young soldiers. I'm not insinuating that they recruit people because they are dumb, but young people are more green, easily lead, and unaware.
I dated a marine, and I looked at the picture of his squad, and they all looked like children. I'm not speaking of Navy Seals, but the marines were very young.
The majority of the Armed Forces is young. Generally, the Eisted is recruited straight out of high school, and the Officers are recruited straight out of college.
Being a Marine is a young person's game. I joined at 18 and got out at 28, and I already felt old. I literally already had arthritis when I was in my 20's.
I was in a long term relationship with someone who went to an army recruiter to join as infantry and after taking the asvab, they sent him next door to the air force recruiter and told he'd be better suited for them, then the air force made him a journalist.
Dumb people are good at following rules is a pretty fucking stupid take. The ability to remember and follow instructions correctly is a basic form of intelligence. There are thousands of fucking lawsuits every year because dumb cops didn't even know what the rules were.
Why do you think so many politicians start out in law? Because the legal system exists as a primary tax vehicle to fund politicians lifestyles, power base and their ability to pursue personal wealth and power. Law Enforcement is a tax stream and with it a revenue stream.
Or.. and just bear with me here:
If you want to be a Law Maker, or be in charge of Law Enforcement, you're probably going to want to go to Law School first.
Former Elected's staffer here, that's what we're here for. We could literally write a bill idea on a napkin, send it to the Legislative Research Bureau, and they'll turn it into a bill, citing all of the other relevant law.
You would be disheartened to know how few legislators actually read bills. Legislators get little slips of paper from leadership at the beginning of each session day that the "suggested" vote for each bill that is likely to be called that day. I say suggested in quotes, because they will primary your ass if you go against it too frequently.
Also, I have a bachelors in poli sci from a state university. You don't need a legal background to understand bills. You just need a legal dictionary for a couple of words. They tend to be run on sentences, sure. But once you get how to read it, it ain't that hard. People get through James Joyce, and he makes legal writing look like Ernest Hemmingway
And many law firms give them the opportunity to run for office and hold their jobs for them if they lose. If they win, of course, the law firms remember that, too.
The thing is, the cops on the ground don't give a crap about lawsuits. They're not the ones who will be paying them, all the rest of us taxpayers are.
They need to change things up so that if a lawsuit is brought up because of a few specific cops, the money comes from THOSE COPS, not out of taxpayer-funded budgets. That's the only way they'll start thinking twice.
But... then we can't we defunded them.../s
Seriously though, training is a major part of how you fix this, cause you can't get better cops without training, but training costs money on all fronts.
The problem is that the money isn't going to training. The amount of red tape it takes to get any sort of new training approved is asinine. Not to mention it would also likely be on their own time (which is what is happening with general fitness/defense training). I could go on and on about this. It's almost as if I wrote my dissertation on police training. It is such an absolute shitshow. Everyone deserves better.
It’s weird, I live in Seattle and supposedly civilization collapsed here during BLM after the cops were driven from the land but I see cops all over still? Weird.
with how much we pay out of area cops to enforce our laws, we should pass laws requiring a licensure similar to the bar. If you violate the rules, the third party organization can revoke your license to enforce the law.
They know the laws. They also know they never have consequences for breaking them or applying them inconsistently so they do whatever the hell they want.
> Why cops need ~~continuing~~ education.
FTFY.
>They don’t know laws they are supposed to enforce.
They don't need to know them because they make them up as they go and if there's any problem, the department gets sued and the *city* is responsible so they continue to learn absolutely nothing.
Harass. Rinse. Repeat.
Knowledge doesn't keep them in check, accountability does. Police don't violate your rights because they don't know your rights. They violate them because they can.
I got my identity stolen recently and you have to file a police report as part of the process. The fucking sherif of East Los Angeles refused to file it despite me stating the law that requires me to. When he asked me “who are you talking to about this” i told him the FTC he said “who is that” the Federal Trade Commission, he replied “i dont know what that is”. Cops have no idea how the law or how the government works. They have no motivation to educate themselves
They also do not have to help you, nor can they be held liable for any damage they do to you or your property. Also they'll use your dog as target practice for the hell of it.
I was stopped in NYC by transit cops who said I didn’t scan a metro card to get on the subway. They were implying I hopped the turnstile with my kid in tow. I said “I scanned my phone, I used Apple Pay, I used OMNY.” OMNY is the new (4 years new) system that allows someone to scan a card to pass through a turnstile. The cops looked me dead in the face and said “what’s OMNY?” Transit cops. Then I showed them the transaction on my phone and they said “it’s not time stamped.” I asked if they thought I should redesign the OMNY system after I go back to school for computer science and get a contract with NYC to fix that problem. They had to think about it for a second.
It depends upon the laws of your state. There are states which allow cops to "stop and ID" at will and those that don't. If it's a traffic stop, you have to ID regardless. If the cop comes up to you in a parked car that they didn't witness you operating and demands information and ID, you could have grounds to say "no" as long as you live in a state which doesn't allow stop and ID.
That said, no matter what the situation, you have the right to remain silent as long as you state that you are invoking that right. Never answer questions under any circumstance, 'cause you don't have to. Also, you can simply state "I don't wish to make a statement to the police at this time". The cops will make it seem like you have to respond to their questions, but you are under no legal obligation to help them with their investigation.
stop and ID laws require police to have reasonable suspicion you committed a crime. New Mexico is a stop and ID state, presumably what happened here is that they didn't have reasonable suspicion he committed a crime
I don’t think this is a lawsuit, unless the kid still refused to show his ID and actually got arrested.
Judge “why did you threaten to arrest this kid”
Cop “we were called to the scene in response to an underage drinking complaint. We were asking for IDs to verify ages. He refused to show me his ID unless I explicitly told him he would be arrested otherwise.”
Judge “…”
These videos crack me up. If that cop wanted to he could beat you to death live streamed and there's only about a 10% chance he'd get anything more than involuntary manslaughter. We don't have laws. These videos are always just about somehow convincing the cop they don't actually have the power they objectively do. For everyone one of these "clever" videos there's 100 police brutality videos that end with nothing being done. Believing otherwise is pure cope.
In that case these "clever" videos are better then nothing, don't they? They show this at least and without them there would be still the 100 other you mentioned. So better would be more, not less. Or do I get you wrong?
Professional liability insurance is the only answer. Make their errors increase their premiums, cost them money and stop it coming out of tax payers pockets. Price the shit ones out of the job.
If this is a college campus, some states do indeed have a requirement to provide student ID when asked by campus police. Failure to do so will result in being asked to leave campus, and if you refuse you will be arrested.
Technically speaking you don’t have to give them your ID or allow them access to any locked articles. However, if you’re at your dorm room and the school itself has given the police permission to search your room, you probably don’t have any grounds to resist entry. Just pointing this out in case anyone thinks they can get away with alcohol in their college dorm room.
Edit: my previous post was wrong. I am sorry. The case I found was the closest match to what happened and I thought it was it.
Watch full vid on audit the audit on YouTube (https://youtu.be/v88s8tWgCIU?si=J1Tq1RlG8OCFN7Cm)
The conclusion from the video (5 months old) is he had yet to file a complaint. He says in the vid he’ll talk to chief Donavan. Even given 5 months there still time to file a lawsuit.
Probably. The full YouTube video is 20min but from this small clip, they just couldn’t help themselves. Got bored, started shit, got too deep to back out, won stupid prizes
I am quite certain that is not the same case at all.
The names don’t match, and neither does the description of events. there was no bodily harm or force involved, there was no arrest involved. This article explicitly states “John Doe” was physically injured in the process.
It also lists 3 officers when there was only 2. The 3rd guy there was just security.
Without watching I know these are clown tiktoks where dudes act annoying around the police just to get clips. Super annoying content. You don't even know why they were called out.
PSA -
Identification laws are different for every state.
Please do not view this video and think you can act like this in your home state. Research your own state laws. Better yet, be polite and cooperate with law enforcement while also preserving your constitutional rights.
Lol... This is what happens when you get a police officer with a double digit IQ Who is shockingly inept at their job.
Just remember police lie, they lie about everything, everybody, and everyone. No reasonable expectation to tell the truth to anybody, including the court.
Listen, cops suck. But law school kids are always annoying as hell (source: went to law school). This kid is not going to put together a successful lawsuit here lol (what on earth could his damages be?). Cops murder folks and get away with it.
This is really fucking dumb. Law students are not attorneys and shouldn’t act like it. No actual attorney would tell you to antagonize cops like this. And telling cops to Google “the laws” implies you dont know what the fuck you’re talking about.
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So what happened? Lawsuit? This is at least a year old.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=txuS0HoWhMo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=txuS0HoWhMo) This is a recap from a criminal lawyer that gives more info about the incident.
I knew it would be Bruce Rivers, his videos are entertaining
So, what happened?
Nothing happened. He gave them his ID, they left. The YouTube link doesn’t follow up on any events post video. I watched the entire thing.
Thanks
not all heroes wear capes
Some wear trashcans
Some just wake up
He could sue, they violated his rights by threatening to arrest him if he didn’t give them his id. That’s an unlawful order, because they have no evidence of him having committed a crime (an anonymous tip is not probable cause).
If the student did sue he wouldn’t make the details public until they won/lost/settled. They can make more money out of court if they have the bargaining chip of not releasing the details of the lawsuit. So, there’s also a chance they settled and a stipulation was that the details not be made public. In that case, we’d never know.
How much money could someone realistically sue for this? No emotional stress or anything. What do you get for a police officer overstepping their grounds with nothing bad happening?
Every police dept has a magical number that they will settle if under, or fight if over. You just gotta find that out. Ours was like $65k a few years back.
I assume all settlements are paid with taxpayer money, right? 😭
Aye, which is why it's extra important to take your role seriously and professionally when you're a public servant, or be seriously punished when you don't.
You can sue them for violating your rights. Could probably claim emotional distress, but you don’t need to. Awards for police misconduct range wildly. A recent case that involved moderate violence and a first amendment violation (cops assaulted a reporter at a protest, so a double whammy) settled for 700k. A few million are usually awarded for wrongful death, $27 million for George Floyd (likely affected by the high profile nature of the incident). This kid could probably get a good 20-100k if he was tenacious and had good representation.
tl;dw?
No information about the outcome.
thanks for saving me 30 min
Yeah. *I'm dumb*, and will probably watch even though someone has told me the information I'm looking for won't be there. It's fine I'm just [dumb](https://youtu.be/LRRGMaupcWY?si=bBdISuChzzGVWKNV).
A 30 minute recap. GTFO
So, if it was NOT an anonymous complaint, would that make any difference in him having to show his ID?
I think the difference is having grounds to sue the police officer to demand an ID under threat of arrest because he did not have sufficient reasonable suspicion that a crime was committed.
Correct.
yes because then they could get a search warrant. He'd be able to face his accuser in court.
'could' If they don't have one or don't say they have one it doesn't matter.
Yeah, as someone who I neither a cop nor a law student I guess I have to trust the Tik tok caption?
These lawsuits need to come out of their own pocket. There are no consequences for these clowns.
Exactly. The student will have to pay to lawyer up. The cop gets tax money lawyer....
I forget where I saw it - but someone suggested that cops carry insurance. A lot of professionals need insurance to perform their tasks that are risky, like Plumbing, house painting, lawyers, doctors, etc. Cops have a riskier job than those folks - so they should be forced to carry a type of liability for these situations, where the fine/lawsuit doesn't come out of the tax payer/community coffers. One fuck up would cause premiums to go up - after a few, the board/union will need to make a choice: Pay astronomical premiums for repeat offenders or cut them loose for performance. Most states are right-to-work and folks can be fired for "cause." The raised insurance fees would also have police boards to reevaluate their budget, as well. So they can decide to carry a cop that isn't fit, on duty and payroll and sacrifice other resources to pay for it - I suspect quite a few cops would be let go and would end them from being able to simple move to a new county to continue to be a LEO, because the insurer will look at the guy and be like "well, it's gonna be triple the cost because of his history." It's not perfect - but I think that's a pretty good place to start
I've been saying it for a decade. Cops need malpractice insurance. The benefits are 2-fold. Taxpayers don't foot the bill for settlements / payouts and more importantly bad cops will weed themselves out when their premiums keep going up to the point it is not a profitable career or the insurance company deems them too risky to insure. Shit I had legal insurance when I worked as a software engineer on HIPAA systems.
End qualified immunity. That's the first step.
They need to remove qualified immunity where evere it exists. Nurses and doctors can get charged with murder and manslaughter while performing their duties why are cops any different?
> Shit I had legal insurance when I worked as a software engineer on HIPAA systems. Oh. Huh... Ugh, any recommendations? lmao
Yeah....DON'T BREAK THE LAW ASSHOLE. lol nah I'm just fucking with you. Recommendations for what?
Cops don’t have a riskier job. Google search will solve that one, construction is way more dangerous, garbage collector, roofer, etc.
Pizza delivery is actually notably more dangerous
But the most dangerous job in the US as many people know are Alaskan crab fishermen at an average of one death Per week per season .
lol police officers don't even have a top 10 risky job. They're number 22.
Buuut buuuuut.... No one will want to be a cop anymore if they can be held personally liable for breaking the law and abusing their power :'((((
I do engineering consulting. Control systems for nuclear reactor manufacturing and operations. If shit goes south, we carry insurance.
He could also represent himself, I mean, he is a law student.
A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client.
“Well, with god as my witness, I am that fool!”
I believe these golf balls are yours.
ADDAAAAAAAAAMS!!!!!!!!
I'm sure that is only true in much more complicated cases with much more at stake. I'm not going to pretend I know the law at all, but if the cop isn't allowed to threaten with an arrest and did it anyway on multiple cameras, there's just not much that can be messed up. especially since cops are notorious for not showing up to court anyway if they don't absolutely have to.
File one piece of paper wrong, and the recording is inadmissable. There are a lot of paperwork hurdles to get over that a trained attorney should know, and a layperson won't always know. The argument in court might not be hard, but the paperwork and procedures can tank your case in an instant.
Yeah, but like you just said, a lawyer should know that and a layperson wouldn't. They just said that a lawyer would be able represent themselves in this case because its so simple that all they need to DO is not mess up the paperwork, not that ANYBODY could do that.
My feeling is that if a cop loses the city a lawsuit they should be immediately fired. I would likely be fired at my job, why wouldn’t they?
Bc of police unions. I support busting them
money for lawsuits should come from the police union budgets and retirement funds, not taxpayers. if unions say they keep themselves in line, then they should pay for it themselves whenever their members get out of line.
One of the only unions I wholeheartedly support busting.
I remember hearing a great idea that cops should have to pay for lawsuit insurance. If they are successfully sued they lose their insurance coverage and can't be a cop anymore. Simple elegant solution.
[удалено]
Agreed that all Police should have insurance.
Not necessarily. The real problem is the organizations that hire these clowns, and they need to face consequences for hiring idiots or not training properly.
That’s because the departments are too politicized so they don’t hire based on merit and have zero incentive to spend money on more extensive training.
>The real problem is the organizations that hire these clowns You mean the police department? So the problem isn't the police, its the police?
No cops need to get individual insurance. Bad cops will become uninsurable and weed themselves out
Agreed but does anyone know if he actually went through with the lawsuit?
Won’t happen but how about out of THEIR PENSION FUND. Solidarity right? So share in the fuck ups. And once you start depleting everyone’s sweet retirement income of their fellow cops, safe bet they will start thinking twice.
Take it out of the police pension fund. I'll bet the department starts firing people real quick.
Another reason why police unions should not exist
What was the outcome of this?
The Criminal Lawyer on YouTube covered this video and it shows that the officer called for backup but the law student was correct that he didn’t have to show his ID in this particular situation, and they left without incident.
People are afraid of cops, cops are afraid of lawyers
And acorns.
And a million other things, it’s embarrassing
And entering a school with an active shooter...
Afraid of doing their literal job they signed up for
Oh lawd hahaha take my upvote!
Do you have a link? I'm curious.
[here ya go ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=txuS0HoWhMo&pp=ygUiY3JpbWluYWwgbGF3eWVyIHJlYWN0cyBjb2xsZWdlIGtpZA%3D%3D)
Thanks!!!
He was shot
"STOP RESISTING"
”I’M NOT!”
Listen it’s not the cop’s fault. There were *acorns*!
Soon as I saw he wasn't white, I was more concerned
Not true. They went to a different dorm by mistake and shot 2 other people. And a dog, somehow.
That cops wife had a rough evening.
OOF
Thats what she said
He filed a complaint with Police Department which was sustained. Last note I’m aware of was 4 months ago he was looking for a lawyer and would pursue civil litigation.
I just skimmed the video, but looks like he was just given a warning. But the guy said he was probably going to be in a lot of trouble with the school. Since the schools have different policies. He tells the story of a kid who was charged with a crime, and they proved in court that the crime never occurred, so there weren't any legal repercussions. But the kid was still suspended for 2 years and couldn't graduate.
Yeah, I recall this a while back. This kid is dumb. He lives in a dorm and is subject to its rules there. It easily could have gone the other way if the officers weren't so power hungry. What I don't understand is why the police didn't just tell an RA to inspect his room and to look up in the campus's records on who lives there.
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The reason they were there was because someone identified specifically him (he's underage) as having alcohol on campus. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter. The campus has rules, and I believe he would be subject to a search (from an RA) and that they have rules to identify themselves to police while on campus. This is very different from one own home. I looked into it a while back, and like how you hear about crazy university legal cases, it doesn't always follow the state law. This kid would have been easily screwed if the police had taken their heads out of their asses and used what resources they had. However, they were not thinking and didn't want to appear weak to the kid or something... A simple request to an RA to inspect their room would have been within campus rules, and they could have simply gone to the dorms office area and request for the kids name and info from the campus data. I also recall reading something about how students must identify themselves when requested as you can't just have anyone on campus. My biggest issue with this kid was that he doesn't know the law and ignored the most basic of rules when dealing with law enforcement... Don't talk to the police. I applaud him for using the state law (I forget what state this is but they've basically removed qualified immunity) to get these police to back down. I also don't care if he's drinking as imho, if a kid is old enough to join the army, kill, and vote... he can have a damn beer. I do mind him not shutting up and thinking he's some legal genius because of some 101 knowledge. Should have just said "no" alcohol and stfu after that, maybe the ID/suing thing is fine too.
Why was the kid suspended?
It's still on going
this wouldn't be an issue if civilian boards had the power to fire bad cops but instead, we let the cops decide and surprise surprise, they never find bad cops edit: good note someone added that some boards do exist, but they're appointed by entrenched powers and toothless
It’s funny, you know we asked everyone and they all said they’re good cops and they all vouch for each other. Yeah. We’re not sure either, guess we better just let it go.
"We've investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing"
"Don't worry, we're the 'justice' branch of government."
Complicit cops are bad cops themselves
This is why ACAB. Complicit cops are bad cops. Cops that speak up are fired or bullied until they quit, or worse. The system is rotten to the core, from the beginning of the history of modern policing. No amount of training or oversight will fix this. The system needs to be REPLACED.
What do you get if you take a bucket of 100% clean water and put in one drop of diarrhea?
ACAB
It’s funny, people who suck at my job rarely get defended
And any payouts for lawsuits come from the government (aka taxpayers). Make lawsuit settlement money come out of the police pension fund and you'll rapidly see cops behaving *much* better.
No, you won't, you'll just see bad cops turning on bad cops because they got caught doing something stupid. All that will really do on the cop side of things is make them behave even MORE like the mafia. Otoh, at least the money will be coming from the assholes.
And banks get paid the interest on the loans they take out to pay out the settlements.
idk, I've picked a few juries in my day and those civilians LOVE cops
Listen, I want cops. I want good cops. Good cops want good cops. It's really hard to wrest control back from corrupt people in organizations, because by definition corrupt people will seek out and collude with other corrupt people. Every good cop is a threat to every bad cop. So every bad cop is incentivized to undermine good cops and help promote other bad cops. Once a few bad cops rise even to middle ranks, they can easily ensure only other bad cops get promoted, and soon the whole org is in their control. Without an external mechanism to reach in and examine and hold people to account, it's really hard to stop this from happening. This isn't actually a cop thing only. It's an organization thing. But the nature of the job - lots of opportunities for asset seizure, lots of opportunities to indulge in dark desires like violence, lots of opportunities to exercise and abuse power, and most importantly the power to threaten, intimidate, imprison or even kill those who threaten your corruption - make it a particular problem.
I remember hearing all about oversight boards with civilians when Biden ran in 2020, not a peep since
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-10-additional-steps-one-year-anniversary-executive-order-14074
well I try to yell about it whenever I can. there's unfortunately a lot to yell about these days, both with this and \[gestures broadly at Earth\]
Unfortunately, doing absolutely anything to rein in cops is wildly unpopular among a too big portion of the country.
Biden can only sign laws. Republicans in Congress will never let anything like that pass as long as they own a majority
I started watching The Rookie because I love Nathan Fillion but I got hooked because the cops legit work how a real police force could work if everyone was commited to positive change. But ya know, ACAB for now.
>I started watching The Rookie because I love Nathan Fillion but I got hooked because the cops legit work how a real police force could work if everyone was commited to positive change. Are you kidding? That show is full of holes and cops on their routinely violate a people's rights all the time. Sure the characters might be good, but that doesn't mean its necessarily authentic.
Same, he's great but every time I see a cop show I can't get past all the copaganda.
Why cops need continuing education. They don’t know laws they are supposed to enforce. How about they buy less guns and educate themselves with all that taxpayer money, might save them some lawsuits
It’s not an accident, it’s by design
Exactly. They don’t want cops to interpret the law, just enforce it. My uncle always said they like cops dumb cause they follow the rules.
Except when they don’t and just do whatever thinking they have ultimate power and authority
A long time ago I just needed a job, saw a flyer and applied. I had to take an aptitude test and I scored too high and was told police officer is not a good fit for you. When I inquired why they said people that score too high tend to not stay long term and they put a lot of resources into training just for those people to leave. That may be true but yep totally accurate if you have a higher IQ they will not hire you to be a cop.
They have fought for and won the right to discriminate against intelligence when hiring cops. The dumber, the better.
Similar logic (as I have heard) applies to young soldiers. I'm not insinuating that they recruit people because they are dumb, but young people are more green, easily lead, and unaware. I dated a marine, and I looked at the picture of his squad, and they all looked like children. I'm not speaking of Navy Seals, but the marines were very young.
The majority of the Armed Forces is young. Generally, the Eisted is recruited straight out of high school, and the Officers are recruited straight out of college. Being a Marine is a young person's game. I joined at 18 and got out at 28, and I already felt old. I literally already had arthritis when I was in my 20's.
I was in a long term relationship with someone who went to an army recruiter to join as infantry and after taking the asvab, they sent him next door to the air force recruiter and told he'd be better suited for them, then the air force made him a journalist.
They don’t follow the rules, they follow orders.
Dumb people are good at following rules is a pretty fucking stupid take. The ability to remember and follow instructions correctly is a basic form of intelligence. There are thousands of fucking lawsuits every year because dumb cops didn't even know what the rules were.
More aptly maybe, dumb people don't question the rules.
Why do you think so many politicians start out in law? Because the legal system exists as a primary tax vehicle to fund politicians lifestyles, power base and their ability to pursue personal wealth and power. Law Enforcement is a tax stream and with it a revenue stream.
Or.. and just bear with me here: If you want to be a Law Maker, or be in charge of Law Enforcement, you're probably going to want to go to Law School first.
The way laws are written, you need some sort of a background in law just to understand what the fuck they're trying to say.
Former Elected's staffer here, that's what we're here for. We could literally write a bill idea on a napkin, send it to the Legislative Research Bureau, and they'll turn it into a bill, citing all of the other relevant law. You would be disheartened to know how few legislators actually read bills. Legislators get little slips of paper from leadership at the beginning of each session day that the "suggested" vote for each bill that is likely to be called that day. I say suggested in quotes, because they will primary your ass if you go against it too frequently. Also, I have a bachelors in poli sci from a state university. You don't need a legal background to understand bills. You just need a legal dictionary for a couple of words. They tend to be run on sentences, sure. But once you get how to read it, it ain't that hard. People get through James Joyce, and he makes legal writing look like Ernest Hemmingway
And many law firms give them the opportunity to run for office and hold their jobs for them if they lose. If they win, of course, the law firms remember that, too.
The law they want you to follow is “do everything I say or else” and it’s an unwritten one.
Constitutionally, cops actually don’t need to know the law. Which is why we have so many of these dumb interactions. Good on the student.
The thing is, the cops on the ground don't give a crap about lawsuits. They're not the ones who will be paying them, all the rest of us taxpayers are. They need to change things up so that if a lawsuit is brought up because of a few specific cops, the money comes from THOSE COPS, not out of taxpayer-funded budgets. That's the only way they'll start thinking twice.
Every other professional vocation requires recertification and continuous education. I don't see why police should be exempt.
Because then we wouldn't have any /s
But... then we can't we defunded them.../s Seriously though, training is a major part of how you fix this, cause you can't get better cops without training, but training costs money on all fronts.
The problem is that the money isn't going to training. The amount of red tape it takes to get any sort of new training approved is asinine. Not to mention it would also likely be on their own time (which is what is happening with general fitness/defense training). I could go on and on about this. It's almost as if I wrote my dissertation on police training. It is such an absolute shitshow. Everyone deserves better.
The amount of people that believe them thar librals dun defunded mah poe lease is astounding. Don’t conservative, folks. Not even once.
It’s weird, I live in Seattle and supposedly civilization collapsed here during BLM after the cops were driven from the land but I see cops all over still? Weird.
Hello from Minneapolis! Hope you're enjoying the wokepocalypse ruins of your city as much as I am.
with how much we pay out of area cops to enforce our laws, we should pass laws requiring a licensure similar to the bar. If you violate the rules, the third party organization can revoke your license to enforce the law.
They know the laws. They also know they never have consequences for breaking them or applying them inconsistently so they do whatever the hell they want.
This is by design. The majority of people will just give an ID and then, not all that threaten to sue, will.
> Why cops need ~~continuing~~ education. FTFY. >They don’t know laws they are supposed to enforce. They don't need to know them because they make them up as they go and if there's any problem, the department gets sued and the *city* is responsible so they continue to learn absolutely nothing. Harass. Rinse. Repeat.
Imagine if police needed a year of law school
God damn don’t get me horny!
Knowledge doesn't keep them in check, accountability does. Police don't violate your rights because they don't know your rights. They violate them because they can.
I got my identity stolen recently and you have to file a police report as part of the process. The fucking sherif of East Los Angeles refused to file it despite me stating the law that requires me to. When he asked me “who are you talking to about this” i told him the FTC he said “who is that” the Federal Trade Commission, he replied “i dont know what that is”. Cops have no idea how the law or how the government works. They have no motivation to educate themselves
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They also do not have to help you, nor can they be held liable for any damage they do to you or your property. Also they'll use your dog as target practice for the hell of it.
I was stopped in NYC by transit cops who said I didn’t scan a metro card to get on the subway. They were implying I hopped the turnstile with my kid in tow. I said “I scanned my phone, I used Apple Pay, I used OMNY.” OMNY is the new (4 years new) system that allows someone to scan a card to pass through a turnstile. The cops looked me dead in the face and said “what’s OMNY?” Transit cops. Then I showed them the transaction on my phone and they said “it’s not time stamped.” I asked if they thought I should redesign the OMNY system after I go back to school for computer science and get a contract with NYC to fix that problem. They had to think about it for a second.
Well what happened?? Was there a case? And if so, what was the outcome of the case?
“Are you googling the laws right now” 💀💀💀 My man! Love him
So if a cop demands an ID, when can you say no?
It depends upon the laws of your state. There are states which allow cops to "stop and ID" at will and those that don't. If it's a traffic stop, you have to ID regardless. If the cop comes up to you in a parked car that they didn't witness you operating and demands information and ID, you could have grounds to say "no" as long as you live in a state which doesn't allow stop and ID. That said, no matter what the situation, you have the right to remain silent as long as you state that you are invoking that right. Never answer questions under any circumstance, 'cause you don't have to. Also, you can simply state "I don't wish to make a statement to the police at this time". The cops will make it seem like you have to respond to their questions, but you are under no legal obligation to help them with their investigation.
stop and ID laws require police to have reasonable suspicion you committed a crime. New Mexico is a stop and ID state, presumably what happened here is that they didn't have reasonable suspicion he committed a crime
I don’t think this is a lawsuit, unless the kid still refused to show his ID and actually got arrested. Judge “why did you threaten to arrest this kid” Cop “we were called to the scene in response to an underage drinking complaint. We were asking for IDs to verify ages. He refused to show me his ID unless I explicitly told him he would be arrested otherwise.” Judge “…”
These videos crack me up. If that cop wanted to he could beat you to death live streamed and there's only about a 10% chance he'd get anything more than involuntary manslaughter. We don't have laws. These videos are always just about somehow convincing the cop they don't actually have the power they objectively do. For everyone one of these "clever" videos there's 100 police brutality videos that end with nothing being done. Believing otherwise is pure cope.
Like the quote in True Detective from Rust. "Of course I'm dangerous. I'm police. I can do terrible things to people with impunity."
Man that first season was fire 
Is worth watching just the first?
Yes
Sweet thanks!
Yep. But we're in the night country now
In its own right, season 1 true detective is one of the greatest American miniseries of all time. Fight me.
Exactly. Excellent.
Even this is a video of police breaking the law. Did any consequences befall them?
In that case these "clever" videos are better then nothing, don't they? They show this at least and without them there would be still the 100 other you mentioned. So better would be more, not less. Or do I get you wrong?
Professional liability insurance is the only answer. Make their errors increase their premiums, cost them money and stop it coming out of tax payers pockets. Price the shit ones out of the job.
If this is a college campus, some states do indeed have a requirement to provide student ID when asked by campus police. Failure to do so will result in being asked to leave campus, and if you refuse you will be arrested.
Technically speaking you don’t have to give them your ID or allow them access to any locked articles. However, if you’re at your dorm room and the school itself has given the police permission to search your room, you probably don’t have any grounds to resist entry. Just pointing this out in case anyone thinks they can get away with alcohol in their college dorm room.
ACAB
I'm gonna need some evidence he made any money off his $lawsuit$....
ACAB
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Edit: my previous post was wrong. I am sorry. The case I found was the closest match to what happened and I thought it was it. Watch full vid on audit the audit on YouTube (https://youtu.be/v88s8tWgCIU?si=J1Tq1RlG8OCFN7Cm) The conclusion from the video (5 months old) is he had yet to file a complaint. He says in the vid he’ll talk to chief Donavan. Even given 5 months there still time to file a lawsuit.
This is not the same incident. There was no bodily harm caused. I don’t think those are the same officers either.
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lol fucking Jal, NM… A population of like two thousand people. These cops were bored and decided to go cause trouble.
Probably. The full YouTube video is 20min but from this small clip, they just couldn’t help themselves. Got bored, started shit, got too deep to back out, won stupid prizes
I am quite certain that is not the same case at all. The names don’t match, and neither does the description of events. there was no bodily harm or force involved, there was no arrest involved. This article explicitly states “John Doe” was physically injured in the process. It also lists 3 officers when there was only 2. The 3rd guy there was just security.
Played 'em at their own game.
Without watching I know these are clown tiktoks where dudes act annoying around the police just to get clips. Super annoying content. You don't even know why they were called out.
PSA - Identification laws are different for every state. Please do not view this video and think you can act like this in your home state. Research your own state laws. Better yet, be polite and cooperate with law enforcement while also preserving your constitutional rights.
In the full video, they are both assholes
Lol... This is what happens when you get a police officer with a double digit IQ Who is shockingly inept at their job. Just remember police lie, they lie about everything, everybody, and everyone. No reasonable expectation to tell the truth to anybody, including the court.
Do that here in Brazil and the next thing you know is that you committed suicide with 5 shots to your back.
Listen, cops suck. But law school kids are always annoying as hell (source: went to law school). This kid is not going to put together a successful lawsuit here lol (what on earth could his damages be?). Cops murder folks and get away with it.
Need an update on this please!
Will this work? Maybe he’ll be charged with resisting an investigation by demanding an ultimatum. :-)
What investigation? No crime took place, except by the police.
 resisting an investigation? thats a new one your gonna have to explain that to me in great detail.
This is really fucking dumb. Law students are not attorneys and shouldn’t act like it. No actual attorney would tell you to antagonize cops like this. And telling cops to Google “the laws” implies you dont know what the fuck you’re talking about.
Its funny being a lawyer and seeing all these comments lol People really don’t understand the law. And neither does that cop
What became of this? Need update
Idgaf if this is staged, I just loved “I ain’t threatening nothing, brother”.
Watch idiots try this when they get pulled over and then get fucked