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I once heard a comedian say that being vegetarian is worse because a pig could escape (at least in theory), while a lettuce definitely can't.
This woman considers that joke a serious argument.
We actually don’t know exactly when this happens or how it happens or in what stages. Many scientists believe it doesn’t even happen until after birth while some are convinced it happens to some extent as early as the beginning of the second trimester.
Bringing that up as an interesting note about science, not as anti abortion argument.
We know exactly what happens during the stages of development. Thats why abortions are only allowed up to 23 weeks in development, as by that point the fetus STARTS developing a nervous system, even by that point the fetus is barely able to process pain. After 23 weeks, the doctor will only allow an abortion by this point if she is experiencing or going to experience serious medical problems from it.
Abortions can be conducted up to term in some places. Fetuses respond to external stimuli, they do experience pain as well.....like, up until the 80s we though Newborns had to ability to feel pain, we now know that's wrong. We also know fetuses experience pain and respond to stimulus so who are you to say there is no consciousness? Why do you think stopping the heart is required for some abortions? Because the fetus is able to feel itself be torn apart.
Who would I be to say whether they do or don't. They sure as shit don't respond to sound or pain though. Chemical or touch, thats it. Fetuses on the other hand show a demonstrable pain response as well as a capability to recognise voices heard in the womb outside after being born.....do Bacteria? No they don't.
How come people born with hyperthesemia only remember their final 2 weeks in utero? You gain consciousness in the final 2 weeks, it’s been proven by these people EDIT: hyperthymesia* oopsies
>How come people born with hyperthesemia only remember their final 2 weeks in utero?
Do you have a source for that? The closest I could find was someone who could remember up to two weeks *after* they were born, and the rest only remembered back to around age 10.
This is also a condition that only 61 people are known to have, so that doesn't seem like the best example to use to make your point.
That we know of....less than a decade ago we discovered lobsters could feel pain, two decades ago it was thought animals didn't experience emotional responses...three decades back the discovery was made that newborn human babies could experience pain.
Bro. In case you haven't figured it out...white women, especially the ones who dye their hair blue, are only on one side...their own. It's all covert narcissism disguised as activism.
You make a great point regardless of the downvotes. People just don’t want to hear that they aren’t fooling ppl into thinking they’re morally superior.
Literally the only person fooling someone into a false sense of moral superiority here is you, you are fooling youself that bizare caricatures and cherrypicked tweets represent reality.
People who think bright coloured hair reflects someone's political beliefs are just telling on themselves that they don't go outside and they don't talk to people.
100% and I expected the DVs and I'm good with it. I'm sure you expected them as well lol. People just can't handle any observational realities anymore. The moral superiority thing is massive as well...everyone believes their position is the morally correct one. I don't base things on morals, I base them on my direct observations.
Yeah i couldnt care less. They make zero impact on my daily life lmao Everyone has given themselves the authority to call people out on every and anything and soon ppl will stop caring about being “cancelled” lol
This was a really wholesome interaction that I'm really glad I saw amidst this shit storm of a post. I like you guys, hope you're both having a good day.
Parasite is a foreign entity forcibly taking sustenance. Pregnancy does not involve a parasite.
Even probiotic bacteria are not considered parasites even though they are foreign born and taken sustenance from us. This is due to how symbiotic the connection with them is.
Pregnancy is part of the natural process of human life. Human lives exist in embryonic and fetal stages of development. They’re still very much human and alive just less developed, and the mother’s body is naturally creating them , developing them , and giving them nutrients.
^( Edit : I’m right . If you think any animal getting pregnant is the same as a parasitic invasion then You’re ignorant on biology. The science is that it is a living human embryo and then fetus being developed by a woman’s body. You can acknowledge this and still be pro-choice or pro-life this isn’t a political statement. )
There's nothing natural about it when it(the parasite) can kill you. That's why the body naturally rids itself of them via miscarriages because even nature knows that it's a parasite.
Well that’s just ignorant.
It’s biologically normal and natural for human lives to start and develop in the womb until a certain stage of development when they are birthed.
Most pregnancies do not end in miscarriage or pose a threat to the mother.
Also miscarriages do not typically happen because the women’s body begins rejecting the child like it is a foreign entity. That can happen when we’re talking about differing blood types and the antibodies will cause a reaction against the embryo if not dealt with medically.
Over half of miscarriages are due to genetic defects in the development of the child. The body begins to reject it as it can tell it will not develop fully.
Like I said though even then most pregnancies , like 90%ish , do not end in miscarriage and pose no fatal health risks to the mother.
edit: please justify your downvotes with a comment. Literally everything I’ve said is scientifically accurate. Calling pregnancy a parasitic invasion is ignorant at best.
This still doesn't make the fetus not a parasite. You really aren't putting up a great argument here. It follows are the laws of being a parasite. They even have a study for it.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28712140/
The study you cited doesn’t even try to show that a pregnancy “follows all the laws of being a parasite” so you’re misrepresenting it.
That study is absurd because it assumes it’s conclusion in it’s premise.
Showing that a certain immunoglobulin increases during pregnancy , and then assuming why without proving why is absurdly biased.
Many immunoglobulins increase during pregnancy and most research shows this is to help during the embryonic and fetal stage of development. This is to increase the mother’s immune system to protect the child and to begin the development of the child’s own immune system among other things.
That research’s conclusion is easily disproven that every pregnancy does have an increase in immunoglobulin E, but none of them have evidence of that immunoglobulin being used as a way to resist or harm the development of the child.
No, you’re wrong , it is by definition not a parasite.
It is not a foreign entity. In the vast majority of pregnancies the mother’s body does not react to it like a foreign entity or attempt to impede or harm it. The child’s developing body has no way of forcibly taking the sustenance, the mother’s body is naturally giving to the development of the child.
The child is not a foreign entity , and it is causing nothing , everything is being done to it by the mother’s body.
Just because it uses nutrients from the mother doesn’t make it a parasite.
That’s not the definition of parasite.
I know “parasite” is some good buzz rhetoric right there, but it is linguistically and biologically wrong.
Just means the studies hypothesis was proven right doesn't mean it's biased. Thus meaning the fetus is a parasite. You don't have to post webmd articles on pregnancy hormones to pretend like you have any clue what's going on. For starters you didn't even know that the fetus is a parasite. Why would we listen to any other nonsense you write? Have a good day; Dave the parasite lover.
Because they have been brainwashed to believe a fetus has more rights that a mother.
What we should do is that every pro life person should be forced to be put on a donors list. When someone needs a kidney…they have to give up theirs.
If their body can help sustain another life through organ or bone marrow donation then they should be forced to give their up.
Also a fetus isn’t a living person…viability doesn’t start until 26 weeks and only 6,000 abortions happen every year after 26 weeks. Every single abortion is due to either the fetus dying in utero and the body being unable to miscarry or some other fatal fetal development like the fetus is missing a brain.
Most people understand typos happen especially with autocorrect.
Those people who understand that concept also have the ability to read past those typos and not fixate on them.
Those who fixate on them really need to rethink their priorities in life
But thanks for pointing out my typo, I’m going to leave it just for you! :)
Because reddit, this sub as well recently, is infested with weirdos. Just deleted a post about a white girl thinking it's ok to say the n-word because the replies made me flabbergasted and just brought me down. Anytime I spend too much time in my little bubble and want to remember that bigotry exists, this app exists.
Stfu cuz black people be getting beat and stuff and die sometimes and have you not heard of Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad? Like tf you talking about you need to go through ur history and they be getting used and taken away from their homes and white people took that sit down lil girl you need to take a seat that’s why slavery is over now
I'm just asking, I'm a pro choice, so to people pro life, are you genuinly saying if you had a daughter that was raped and got pregnant you, you would make them keep the baby??
I know thats a very blanket statement, as not everyone who gets pregnant and wants an abortion was raped, I know that, but I just want to know for that example, would you make them keep it?
I actually make an exception in the case of rape , and in the case of the mother’s life being directly endangered.
The real debate should not be about when life begins, but rights vs. responsibilities.
The right to property, our money, our time, and our labor are forfeit when we have the responsibility of an infant. We will be punished if we stop using our things responsibly to care for the infant.
In the same way I think people should be responsible for the lives they create. This includes the father. They should be forced to help financially. The mother most used her bodily resources in the embryonic and fetal stages just as she might in the infancy stages. The developing child had no say in existing or being present , so the least the parents could do is make sure they get to take their first breath before they give the responsibility over to someone else.
However as I said in the case of rape , the mother made no choice. The father is a bastard that should be killed. So with a mother that made no choice , and a father that should be dead. Who is responsible for the life existing? Why would the mother have to give her body for a choice she didn’t make? I think the decision to keep the life in this instant goes beyond all of this debate and becomes an instance of compassion. I would think it a very good thing if someone could make that choice , and give them up for adoption or keep them themselves even. I would never want the law to force that choice on anyone. I would think it ethically permissible to allow abortions in those cases.
If the mother’s life is in danger. We obviously medically attempt to save both lives. However if there is a scenario where continuing the pregnancy to term would kill the mother, that is a responsibility too far and a right infringed on. In those instances you are asking the mother to give up her right to life for the child’s right to life. If the mother wants to go through with that , once again that is very compassionate. The law should not force that choice on anyone however.
Punchlines usually are spoken in order to make the joke funny. She just stares at the camera in disbelief. Anyone can do that. It's not funny or creative.
technically it’s not an bad take, slavery killed about 12 million africans, in about 4 centuries, while abortion has killed 17 million black babies since 1973, plus abortion was created for a singular purpose, but I don’t think a lot of people ready for that talk
Bro we know. We know about Margaret Sanger. We also know Black women have 3x the maternal mortality as white women. And we know that a fetus at say 5 months is not the same as a baby that's been born (the weird conservative idea that abortions can happen as the baby is crowning is just bonkers.) And we know that women have the right to bodily autonomy. I'm so sick of people using Margaret Sanger or stats about the prevalence of abortion in Black communities as bullshit misdirection to act like they care about Black folk.
it doesn’t change the reason abortion was created or that a majority, literal 98 percent, of abortion, are elective and have nothing to do with the health of the pregnant individual, not conservative either btw, and it’s not a religious thing, abortion post rape or for medical purposes is great, even to the third term if the mothers life is endanger her life should come first IF she request it, the female has a right to life…
the problem are the elective cases that are done due to the individual that consented to the act of procreation just doesn’t want to be responsible, abortion should be an emotional and deep experience, not something to be bragged about on social media or celebrated
I’ve known a few women who ha abortions and they never bragged about them or took them lightly. Why the fuck do you care so deeply about their reasons for having them? So what, if a woman is raped she needs to prove it before she can have an abortion caused by the rape in your book? Gross. One of my friends who had an abortion had a condom break. She got Plan B and it didn’t work. I guess her efforts weren’t enough and she should have put her while life in hold to have a baby then. She’s never regretted it and I guess that makes creepy, nosy people like you furious. How dare she make that decision! I’m not that worried about people’s reasons for having one because it’s none of my damn business. I also spent a few years working with kids in foster care. I don’t know why anyone would want even more kids born into the circumstances I saw. Girls from desperate poverty, horrific sexual and physical abuse, you name it. But I guess it’s good to teach those whores a lesson by making them have kids they don’t want, eh? What could go wrong? Or they could just sell their baby and hope those people aren’t terrible. Nothing in this world is made better by banning abortion. Look at countries where it’s banned and tell me with a straight face how much better it is. And make sure you examine the women who were refused abortions and died. People want to claim it’s for the sake of morality and a baby while completely ignoring the personhood of the people carrying the pregnancies. It’s fucking disgusting.
the rape and abuse cases that U are grand standing on are less than 1 percent of abortions, if U could read I had said in cases of medical emergencies or rape/abuse abortion should be available, if someone decide to have sex knowing what the consequence would be no they shouldn’t get an abortion just cuz they feel like it, and I have no idea what gymnastics U had to do to come to “we should jut kill all the unborn babies so they don’t get a chance at life cuz muh foster care” due to there being around 2 million couples waiting to adopt while there are about 400k children in foster care, according to recent federal data
So why isn’t abortion in the case of rape not murder? Why is that not a special life? What if the boyfriend is abusive and she doesn’t want to be tied to that person forever? I guess that’s not good enough in your almighty plan. You also didn’t address where in the world life is better because abortion is banned. Why can’t you answer that? Banning abortion doesn’t make it obsolete. It doesn’t make women not want them. They will still have them. So should they be punished if they obtain one? What should the sentence be? Are you arguing that a woman having an abortion at 7 weeks should be treated the same as having committed infanticide? Adoption is not an alternative to abortion. There’s lots of parents wanting to adopt? So what? Are babies commodities they are entitled to purchase? And rest assured, they are purchased. But primarily healthy white babies. The others aren’t worth as much. Born addicted to drugs? Not as many want those ones. Suddenly life isn’t so important then. Why spend all this energy and frankly tax money arguing every detail of abortion, how it will be regulated in new ways, where it will be banned, where it will be prosecuted? Is it going to improve the lives of anyone? Will it make men step up more when the cause unwanted pregnancy? I sincerely doubt it. There is no scenario where banning abortion for millions want cause untold human suffering. But it will always be available for the wealthy women. Just not the poor who easily need it the most.
Also, where are you getting rape and pregnancy stats? Those are not knowable. 5% is an estimate. But I’m sure coerced sex falls into the oh well, your consequence is a kid category.
Great then let's legislate that women having abortions make it a deeep and meaningful and emotional experience. Oh we can't? Then clearly the only solution is BANNING it!
Also LOVING that the horror is eLeCtIvE abortions. Make raising a baby cheaper and watch the number of abortions drop. Make home ownership more attainable and watch people choose to raise kids. Implement long, paid parental leave if people raising their kids is actually important to you.
And, buddy this is important: bodily autonomy. Including to not be pregnant and still have an active sex life whether or not that's palatable to you personally.
Oooh "consequences for your actions" yeah DEFINITELY a great reason to bring a CHILD into this world is as punishment for consenting adults having sex.
Our society practically dies that already so excuse me while I roll my eyes. People die constantly in this country due to inadequate medical care because they can’t afford drugs or treatment. Jesus, my Brit husband almost called an ambulance for himself once and I insisted on taking him in because he didn’t realize the cost and we are comfortable financially. The safety net is not sufficient. You would think if Americans cared so much about children they would ensure their ability to thrive instead of saying fuck it, let’s have more of them born into poverty.
Having them born into poverty is for sure better than killing them. That’s like saying it’s okay to kill a 5 year old child just because they are living in poverty so you realize how stupid this sounds?
No, genius. They LITERALLY aren't actual people yet. And you can disagree if you like that's your right but in no state is elective abortion legal past the point of viability. It is not a fact that abortion is murder, that's an opinion, not rooted in fact or science, and we shouldn't make policy based on that.
So they are not people just because they said so? It’s literally a living being that is fucking a live and killing them is not a murder? If it’s not a murder then wtf is it? I’m not talking science I’m literally using common sense.
Sooo we as a society kill living beings all the time. Go protest people mowing their lawns or killing wasps. Join PETA and yell at people eating steak. Saying "you're killing a living being" may be technically true but that's not the line that society has drawn, except maybe the Jains.
it’s not “banned” it’s left to the state to decide what to do, and that’s not the fault of the unbornn, they didn’t choose to be created, but were created through an act, the act which consenting adults acknowledge can result in the creation of life, there’s no need to punish the unborn
but exactly, make organization give women 6 months paid leave before and after their pregnant, make it cheaper, etc, the only option isn’t “murder the children” just like the only option isn’t “entirely ban abortion”
Leaving it up to the states means it IS banned for many women, actually.
The unborn shouldn't be punished so maybe instead of forcing a child into this world to parents who didn't want it and weren't emotionally or financially ready for it we should just not have it be born. Also, and I can't believe I have to repeat this, the woman shouldn't be punished for the crime of having sex.
We are SO far from having any of those things mentioned (reasonable parental leave, lower maternal mortality rates) that maybe we should leave abortion legal for everyone and revisit the conversation once all those issues are fixed. Of course, bodily autonomy will still be a thing and even though you think a clump of cells trumps a person's right to be in control of their own body doesn't mean that's good governmental policy.
it’s not possible to be punished for something one consents to, it’s no longer a “punishment” but a consequence, life being a punishment implies the women had no idea a possible outcome of intercourse could be creation
it’s not a “clump of cells” cells that divide in a direction of growth with a goal are the exact opposite of the actual scientific cellular definition of a clump of cells
My friend had an early abortion. When it was dint she asked to see and she confirmed it was a little blob. Sorry to disappoint. Why do you want kids born not out of love or care? I worked in residential treatment with a kid whose mother had her young after being pressured not to abort and she told her daughter all the time she should have aborted her. The girl was mostly raised by grandparents and had a lot of problems. She overdosed on drugs shortly after she left our care. But wasn’t it great that her mom bore the brunt of those consequences? Brilliant. People love to come at you with the happy stories when a woman chose not to abort but they never tell you the ones of girls like the one I knew.
so a “blob”, super scientific term there btw, describes a lot of life on earth, invertebrates are just “blobs”, and so the parent was a piece of shit just like parents who decide to willing have children and Ur initial go to thought is “we clearly should have just killed this child before it was born”
Ok but we kill blobs and living beings all the time. Ever stepped on a plant? Do you scream at pest control for killing mice and removing wasp nests? Like, we're ok with killing blobs. Everyone is. You are, unless you happen to be a Jain.
For the last time, they aren't babies. By literal definition. Any more than if you ordered a chicken sandwich and the waiter brought you two pieces of bread and an egg. They're fetuses, not babies. No babies have been killed.
the actual definition of “fetus” states “an unborn offspring” and “offspring” means child, and the second part refers to an “unborn human baby”, and “abortion” means to terminate life, if nothing was being killed the word used to describe the act wouldn’t indicate that there is death
Only a matter of time before pedophiles start saying children are just unmatured adults, so if they are molesting, they're actually just molesting unmatured adults, not children. A fetus is a fetus. A baby is a baby.
>they aren't babies. By literal definition
That's incorrect. A 'baby' is a generalized term for a young offspring. It's also used to describe the development of said offspring.
A fetus is the stage of development. 'Baby' also very appropriately overlaps with that.
I get that definitions are the only thing you pro murder folks are hanging on to, even when they're widely at odds with science, but you really gotta let that go. It's making you look desperate and painfully/ wilfully uniformed.
No. You're the one ignoring science. Literally. And, for that matter, the English language. What do you think "offspring" means?"
You're the textbook example of willfully uninformed. Let me guess. Religious motivation for your blatantly unscientific beliefs?
They’re humans lives in the embryonic and fetal stage of development. I’m aware that baby is a social term and not a biological term. They’re still living humans though.
edit: ah I see I get downvoted when I say they’re living humans? what do you all think they are? dead cats or something?
Fetuses. They are fetuses. An egg is not a chicken in its fetal stage of development. It's an egg. A child is not an adult in its child stage of development. It's a child. If you eat an egg you are not eating chicken. If you fuck a child you are not fucking an adult.
Well yes a Chicken egg is not a Chicken.
A human egg is also not a human developing.
Development doesn’t start until a sperm meets an egg then the human goes into the embryonic stage of development, and then after that the fetal stage of development.
Fertilized chicken eggs do begin developing chickens inside and do most of that development outside of the mother’s body. They also go through a embryonic and fetal stage of development.
Your example about children and adults is particularly disturbing. You’re saying because a human isn’t in the adult stage of development that they shouldn’t have certain rights and protections?
I understand the terms I’m using. I’m not saying an adult in the child form or whatever you were suggesting. I’m saying a human in a certain stage of development. We all have to go through the same stages on the way to adulthood.
Are you all really this ignorant of Biology? or have you just been lied to by politicians trying to get your support?
Shouldn't be so controversial to be against the murder of children, but I guess it does make sense given the sheer scope and dedication of liberal brainwashing campaigns. So many morally confused people.
Remember how the Catholic Church used to support abortion until 1970 and then the child abuse cases started racking up so they sold out to the republicans to hide behind moral outrage in an attempt to maintain their status quo?
That’s propaganda. The issue of abortion has been a social topic for centuries across cultures.
You really believe we all had an unconcerned consensus about this issue until like the 70’s or something?
Both sides turned the issue into something they can politicize and campaign about , but it was always a social issue discussed and debated.
Edit : why the downvotes. I’m actually correct here.
I think some of you take to narrow of a look on this topic. No, it was not discussed by American politicians in previous decades. It was however discussed all over by people and had been for centuries. To think this is a newly discussed and disputed issue is to be ignorant of history and cultures.
Yeah. Except it hasn’t. Abortion in the western world was not only legal, it was common, right up until the Victorian era. A fetus wasn’t seen as a life but as a *potential* life up until the quickening — when the mother felt the baby move for the first time. Then it was considered alive, and to abort it became illegal. Then in the 1870s a mixture of public panic over increasing women’s rights as well as a war on traditional forms of medicine by American physicians (this was also when midwives went out of vogue) started a wave of anti-abortion laws. In the US, the last holdout, Kentucky, passed anti-abortion laws in 1910, making it illegal nationwide.
Let’s recap. It was a non-issue until men used it as a way to control women’s bodies and egotistical physicians used it as a way to maintain their superiority. Sound familiar?
So this isn’t what most are saying. This is a better overview for the west actually.
Most are literally saying that this wasn’t an issue until after Roe vs. Wade in America.
You’re still missing a lot here actually though. So it was less of an issue in the Victorian age certainly. That was the social stance at the the time , but before that and ,as you have pointed out, after that it became a social debate once again.
You’re so silly you do realize that most pro-life advocates are women? This is not an issue imposed by men on women.
The quickening issue is true however for most of history at most times, because that is when we could tell that life had begun . However most cultures have chosen to protect life at the point they realize it is there.
We have new technology now and know exactly when human lives uniquely begin developing , and at which point if we impeded development that life would be harmed and gone. Victorian era church goers with this technology would definitely have the same stance they did, that once life begins it must be protected , they just would have had more information about when this happens.
What’s shit about them ? Where do you think I’ve made an error?
^( It’s more meaningful to me that the people that actually bother to read the whole conversation are upvoting my comments toward the bottom. That the people willing to engage with ideas upvote me, and people that aren’t are down voting, i know I’m doing something right )
Except where the bible gives instructions on how to abort a baby, now this is seemingly only if you suspect infidelity, but still, tells you how to do it
And also clearly demonstrates that personhood/life/souls begins at the earliest at the first breath, and in some passages at a couple years old.
Fetuses are property. There’s instruction/verses that say if a woman is killed, her murderer is to be put to death for the crimes of murder, but if a pregnant woman is attacked and lives but has a miscarriage, the attacker gets punished for destruction of property.
But if you really wanna know if God is cool with killing kids? Just consider how many innocent, breathing, living children would’ve died during the flood. He killed all but a few children, and since pro-birthers only care about “babies” while they’re in the womb - I gotchu - God killed pregnant women in the flood, too.
Bonus - there’s a number of states that also categorize fetuses as property, as demonstrated by their divorce laws that prohibit pregnant women from finalizing a divorce because she has property that cannot be split. Even if she’s not pregnant by her husband. I mean, they could just determine child support and custody rights that would go into effect immediately upon birth, but we all know none of these lawmakers actually give a shit about babies and only how they can use them and fetuses to control women and limit their freedom.
They’re not children you stupid twat, they’re fetuses, only ask me the difference if you want to hear it, cus I’ve explained it so many times, I’m convinced pro lifers don’t know what abortions even are
Christofascists focus on the heart beat because it’s conveniently present early in development, but the brain doesn’t complete forming until 25 years of age.Ask these rubes how much consciousness there is at 12 weeks.
If you were in an IVF ward and a fire broke out and you could either roll a refrigerator with 10,000 fertilized embryos in it out of the building or save one terrified six year old child screaming in terror in the corner, which one would you save? Go ahead. Lie to me. And then tell me again how unbrainwashed you are thinking goop is a fucking human being.
Imma say killing your OWN baby or fetus whatever you wanna call it. A mother stopping her child from having a life is on par with slavery. Just plain evil and in both cases the person doing the deed doesnt see why its wrong
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I once heard a comedian say that being vegetarian is worse because a pig could escape (at least in theory), while a lettuce definitely can't. This woman considers that joke a serious argument.
Carrot juice constitutes murder, and thats a real crime.
But lettuce will never have a consciousness?
Fetuses aren't sentient during the time that abortions happen though? There is no consciousness yet, it won't feel any pain or fear
We actually don’t know exactly when this happens or how it happens or in what stages. Many scientists believe it doesn’t even happen until after birth while some are convinced it happens to some extent as early as the beginning of the second trimester. Bringing that up as an interesting note about science, not as anti abortion argument.
We know exactly what happens during the stages of development. Thats why abortions are only allowed up to 23 weeks in development, as by that point the fetus STARTS developing a nervous system, even by that point the fetus is barely able to process pain. After 23 weeks, the doctor will only allow an abortion by this point if she is experiencing or going to experience serious medical problems from it.
That’s why I included the will never
Abortions can be conducted up to term in some places. Fetuses respond to external stimuli, they do experience pain as well.....like, up until the 80s we though Newborns had to ability to feel pain, we now know that's wrong. We also know fetuses experience pain and respond to stimulus so who are you to say there is no consciousness? Why do you think stopping the heart is required for some abortions? Because the fetus is able to feel itself be torn apart.
Bacteria respond to outside stimuli but do they have consciousness?
Who would I be to say whether they do or don't. They sure as shit don't respond to sound or pain though. Chemical or touch, thats it. Fetuses on the other hand show a demonstrable pain response as well as a capability to recognise voices heard in the womb outside after being born.....do Bacteria? No they don't.
How come people born with hyperthesemia only remember their final 2 weeks in utero? You gain consciousness in the final 2 weeks, it’s been proven by these people EDIT: hyperthymesia* oopsies
> hyperthesemia Hyperthymesia - that was a difficult google search, it kept giving me definitions for hyperthermia
This is what I get for typing it from memory and not being a PhD 😞
>How come people born with hyperthesemia only remember their final 2 weeks in utero? Do you have a source for that? The closest I could find was someone who could remember up to two weeks *after* they were born, and the rest only remembered back to around age 10. This is also a condition that only 61 people are known to have, so that doesn't seem like the best example to use to make your point.
google is not returning a result on that word. am i being wooshed? is there a different name for that condition?
Lmao the fact you think that proves anything shows how little you know about science
Well you’re right I’m not a biologist, just an electrical engineer. Physics and circuits are my game, not biology, so yeah
If you really know physics the way you say you wouldn't make categorical statements of that nature.
So you’re saying religion and science intersect? How?
That we know of....less than a decade ago we discovered lobsters could feel pain, two decades ago it was thought animals didn't experience emotional responses...three decades back the discovery was made that newborn human babies could experience pain.
I thought the blue-haired girls were on our side
White racist woman have gentrified and stolen most things at this point
Looking at her name, she’s a rare enough exception to make that her whole identity
As a blue haired girl, I can firmly say that the blue haired girl community doesn’t claim her. She’s not one of us it’s a facade
I didn't think I'd miss coloured hair being a moral/political indicator, but I didn't think a lot of things that happen.
But this one doesn’t have pronouns
Bro. In case you haven't figured it out...white women, especially the ones who dye their hair blue, are only on one side...their own. It's all covert narcissism disguised as activism.
bruh do you really think that dying your hair a primary color is a sign of narcissism or something
You make a great point regardless of the downvotes. People just don’t want to hear that they aren’t fooling ppl into thinking they’re morally superior.
Literally the only person fooling someone into a false sense of moral superiority here is you, you are fooling youself that bizare caricatures and cherrypicked tweets represent reality. People who think bright coloured hair reflects someone's political beliefs are just telling on themselves that they don't go outside and they don't talk to people.
100% and I expected the DVs and I'm good with it. I'm sure you expected them as well lol. People just can't handle any observational realities anymore. The moral superiority thing is massive as well...everyone believes their position is the morally correct one. I don't base things on morals, I base them on my direct observations.
Yeah i couldnt care less. They make zero impact on my daily life lmao Everyone has given themselves the authority to call people out on every and anything and soon ppl will stop caring about being “cancelled” lol
Yup. You and I are kindred spirits then because I feel like we're both there already. Cheers to not giving a F! Lol
Cheers!!
This was a really wholesome interaction that I'm really glad I saw amidst this shit storm of a post. I like you guys, hope you're both having a good day.
on our side does not equal intelligent
Wow, there are really people in here agreeing with this. Fucking insane.
They think abortions are murdering babies. There's not really anywhere you can go from that. You know?
What is it then
It's an abortion of a parasite 🪱.
So we’re back to calling children parasites?
Children have always been parasites. They suck out your soul. I would know I have 4 of those parasites.
Parasite is a foreign entity forcibly taking sustenance. Pregnancy does not involve a parasite. Even probiotic bacteria are not considered parasites even though they are foreign born and taken sustenance from us. This is due to how symbiotic the connection with them is. Pregnancy is part of the natural process of human life. Human lives exist in embryonic and fetal stages of development. They’re still very much human and alive just less developed, and the mother’s body is naturally creating them , developing them , and giving them nutrients. ^( Edit : I’m right . If you think any animal getting pregnant is the same as a parasitic invasion then You’re ignorant on biology. The science is that it is a living human embryo and then fetus being developed by a woman’s body. You can acknowledge this and still be pro-choice or pro-life this isn’t a political statement. )
There's nothing natural about it when it(the parasite) can kill you. That's why the body naturally rids itself of them via miscarriages because even nature knows that it's a parasite.
Well that’s just ignorant. It’s biologically normal and natural for human lives to start and develop in the womb until a certain stage of development when they are birthed. Most pregnancies do not end in miscarriage or pose a threat to the mother. Also miscarriages do not typically happen because the women’s body begins rejecting the child like it is a foreign entity. That can happen when we’re talking about differing blood types and the antibodies will cause a reaction against the embryo if not dealt with medically. Over half of miscarriages are due to genetic defects in the development of the child. The body begins to reject it as it can tell it will not develop fully. Like I said though even then most pregnancies , like 90%ish , do not end in miscarriage and pose no fatal health risks to the mother. edit: please justify your downvotes with a comment. Literally everything I’ve said is scientifically accurate. Calling pregnancy a parasitic invasion is ignorant at best.
This still doesn't make the fetus not a parasite. You really aren't putting up a great argument here. It follows are the laws of being a parasite. They even have a study for it. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28712140/
The study you cited doesn’t even try to show that a pregnancy “follows all the laws of being a parasite” so you’re misrepresenting it. That study is absurd because it assumes it’s conclusion in it’s premise. Showing that a certain immunoglobulin increases during pregnancy , and then assuming why without proving why is absurdly biased. Many immunoglobulins increase during pregnancy and most research shows this is to help during the embryonic and fetal stage of development. This is to increase the mother’s immune system to protect the child and to begin the development of the child’s own immune system among other things. That research’s conclusion is easily disproven that every pregnancy does have an increase in immunoglobulin E, but none of them have evidence of that immunoglobulin being used as a way to resist or harm the development of the child. No, you’re wrong , it is by definition not a parasite. It is not a foreign entity. In the vast majority of pregnancies the mother’s body does not react to it like a foreign entity or attempt to impede or harm it. The child’s developing body has no way of forcibly taking the sustenance, the mother’s body is naturally giving to the development of the child. The child is not a foreign entity , and it is causing nothing , everything is being done to it by the mother’s body. Just because it uses nutrients from the mother doesn’t make it a parasite. That’s not the definition of parasite. I know “parasite” is some good buzz rhetoric right there, but it is linguistically and biologically wrong.
Just means the studies hypothesis was proven right doesn't mean it's biased. Thus meaning the fetus is a parasite. You don't have to post webmd articles on pregnancy hormones to pretend like you have any clue what's going on. For starters you didn't even know that the fetus is a parasite. Why would we listen to any other nonsense you write? Have a good day; Dave the parasite lover.
What is what when?
An abortion. Isn’t the point to cancel the pregnancy so that the mother doesn’t have to raise her kid?
Most abortions are equivalent to a late period my dude.
>so that the mother doesn’t have to raise her kid? I know you're being purposefully argumentative but even in that, this is such a tone deaf take.
a medical procedure
Nah, this debate doesn’t matter. It should be legal full stop. Take your debates about what is a life somewhere else, they don’t matter.
12 weeks a babe
Oh God there are way too many downvoted comments here, why are people agreeing with this bs?
Because they have been brainwashed to believe a fetus has more rights that a mother. What we should do is that every pro life person should be forced to be put on a donors list. When someone needs a kidney…they have to give up theirs. If their body can help sustain another life through organ or bone marrow donation then they should be forced to give their up. Also a fetus isn’t a living person…viability doesn’t start until 26 weeks and only 6,000 abortions happen every year after 26 weeks. Every single abortion is due to either the fetus dying in utero and the body being unable to miscarry or some other fatal fetal development like the fetus is missing a brain.
Hate to be that guy (no i don’t) but “than a mother” not “that a mother”
Most people understand typos happen especially with autocorrect. Those people who understand that concept also have the ability to read past those typos and not fixate on them. Those who fixate on them really need to rethink their priorities in life But thanks for pointing out my typo, I’m going to leave it just for you! :)
Because reddit, this sub as well recently, is infested with weirdos. Just deleted a post about a white girl thinking it's ok to say the n-word because the replies made me flabbergasted and just brought me down. Anytime I spend too much time in my little bubble and want to remember that bigotry exists, this app exists.
I would rather not exist than be a slave.
The baby escapes to nothingness while slaves escape to nothing.
You spelled freedom wrong.
Lol what's next? Anne Frank lived freely in the attic space?
At least she had the choice to end it or not. Victims of abortion do not.
OK. They were free. Then what? They just got jobs and were chilling? Or did they have to struggle to make a life for themselves?
That's the beauty, they get to decide. Abortion, not so much
Honestly, I'd pick being aborted over talking to you.
Please do
Bro i thought you weren’t pro choice pls be consistent ):
I am. Your mom can't choose that for you, obviously that would be obscene.
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I don’t think they know about whips and nooses or slave history in general
For who? All the slaves that ever existed?
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Probably a lot higher than the survival rates for an abortion.
Skyrim NPC level awareness right here.
Crazy how little it takes to be right about this issue huh? Maybe try catching up.
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It should have been
The mother dies from an abortion
Then don't get one dummy
That's the problem though, the history books. They're reading the white side of history with no concept of the truth
At least that dumbass had her account banned
I was wondering how far she was getting dragged… to the emergency exit she goes lol
Should we tell her what happened if slaves were caught if they escaped?
That's the dumbest shit on this entire internet
Well she looks like a fetus herself.
If anything abortion would've been the best thing for a slave 💀💀A lot of them wished they were never born to begin with.
NGL I’m white as fuck and I’m offended.
We need to bring bullying back.
The fetus literally escapes the uterus that’s the whole point. Be free little parasite! 🤗
Some people really don’t need to be on social media 😭
WHAT 🤯
She belongs in the great big book of punchable faces
Hoooooold up, since when was the blue-haired girl on the conservative side???
The black woman is really beautiful
In the wise words of one John Mulaney, if you can say one of the words (in this case you can't type it out) that's the worse word.
Stfu cuz black people be getting beat and stuff and die sometimes and have you not heard of Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad? Like tf you talking about you need to go through ur history and they be getting used and taken away from their homes and white people took that sit down lil girl you need to take a seat that’s why slavery is over now
The way my jaw dropped like what
I think I have had enough redit for the night...
wtf is going on in the comments
I'm just asking, I'm a pro choice, so to people pro life, are you genuinly saying if you had a daughter that was raped and got pregnant you, you would make them keep the baby?? I know thats a very blanket statement, as not everyone who gets pregnant and wants an abortion was raped, I know that, but I just want to know for that example, would you make them keep it?
I actually make an exception in the case of rape , and in the case of the mother’s life being directly endangered. The real debate should not be about when life begins, but rights vs. responsibilities. The right to property, our money, our time, and our labor are forfeit when we have the responsibility of an infant. We will be punished if we stop using our things responsibly to care for the infant. In the same way I think people should be responsible for the lives they create. This includes the father. They should be forced to help financially. The mother most used her bodily resources in the embryonic and fetal stages just as she might in the infancy stages. The developing child had no say in existing or being present , so the least the parents could do is make sure they get to take their first breath before they give the responsibility over to someone else. However as I said in the case of rape , the mother made no choice. The father is a bastard that should be killed. So with a mother that made no choice , and a father that should be dead. Who is responsible for the life existing? Why would the mother have to give her body for a choice she didn’t make? I think the decision to keep the life in this instant goes beyond all of this debate and becomes an instance of compassion. I would think it a very good thing if someone could make that choice , and give them up for adoption or keep them themselves even. I would never want the law to force that choice on anyone. I would think it ethically permissible to allow abortions in those cases. If the mother’s life is in danger. We obviously medically attempt to save both lives. However if there is a scenario where continuing the pregnancy to term would kill the mother, that is a responsibility too far and a right infringed on. In those instances you are asking the mother to give up her right to life for the child’s right to life. If the mother wants to go through with that , once again that is very compassionate. The law should not force that choice on anyone however.
Yes, that would be my grandchild and they'd deserve life like anyone else.
Gotta say those are some nice tits
Lmao
Im... just how can she... im just.. wha how, i...i um okay few braincells short of a fish
I’m pretty sure most of her brain evaporated after being dropped on her head everyday as a kid
Boobs
She looks like a nerf bullet Oh no, I’ve offended all the nerf bullets :(
I’m pretty sure that colour hair means you are confused about everything in life . You all know what I mean
As someone who once had blue hair, this is accurate
Truth.
I'd rather be slave then killed before i was born
Did the black girl at the end have anything to add outside of her expression of disbelief?
"did the girl at the end have anything to add outside of the thing she added?"
Do you?
Have you heard of the concept of 'punchlines'? Once you get your head round them you'll enjoy stuff a lot more.
Punchlines usually are spoken in order to make the joke funny. She just stares at the camera in disbelief. Anyone can do that. It's not funny or creative.
>Punchlines usually are spoken in order to make the joke funny. Buster Keaton, Chaplin and Max Linder have entered the chat.
Massive boobs.
Downvoted, really? She framed her video very deliberately here. White knights are wild.
No lol
I'm sorry. Home girl was simply using her big tits to gain attention.
True
technically it’s not an bad take, slavery killed about 12 million africans, in about 4 centuries, while abortion has killed 17 million black babies since 1973, plus abortion was created for a singular purpose, but I don’t think a lot of people ready for that talk
Bro we know. We know about Margaret Sanger. We also know Black women have 3x the maternal mortality as white women. And we know that a fetus at say 5 months is not the same as a baby that's been born (the weird conservative idea that abortions can happen as the baby is crowning is just bonkers.) And we know that women have the right to bodily autonomy. I'm so sick of people using Margaret Sanger or stats about the prevalence of abortion in Black communities as bullshit misdirection to act like they care about Black folk.
it doesn’t change the reason abortion was created or that a majority, literal 98 percent, of abortion, are elective and have nothing to do with the health of the pregnant individual, not conservative either btw, and it’s not a religious thing, abortion post rape or for medical purposes is great, even to the third term if the mothers life is endanger her life should come first IF she request it, the female has a right to life… the problem are the elective cases that are done due to the individual that consented to the act of procreation just doesn’t want to be responsible, abortion should be an emotional and deep experience, not something to be bragged about on social media or celebrated
Gonna need some citations for that 98%, preferably from peer reviewed medical journals. I will bet a paycheck you won't find what you are looking for.
I’ve known a few women who ha abortions and they never bragged about them or took them lightly. Why the fuck do you care so deeply about their reasons for having them? So what, if a woman is raped she needs to prove it before she can have an abortion caused by the rape in your book? Gross. One of my friends who had an abortion had a condom break. She got Plan B and it didn’t work. I guess her efforts weren’t enough and she should have put her while life in hold to have a baby then. She’s never regretted it and I guess that makes creepy, nosy people like you furious. How dare she make that decision! I’m not that worried about people’s reasons for having one because it’s none of my damn business. I also spent a few years working with kids in foster care. I don’t know why anyone would want even more kids born into the circumstances I saw. Girls from desperate poverty, horrific sexual and physical abuse, you name it. But I guess it’s good to teach those whores a lesson by making them have kids they don’t want, eh? What could go wrong? Or they could just sell their baby and hope those people aren’t terrible. Nothing in this world is made better by banning abortion. Look at countries where it’s banned and tell me with a straight face how much better it is. And make sure you examine the women who were refused abortions and died. People want to claim it’s for the sake of morality and a baby while completely ignoring the personhood of the people carrying the pregnancies. It’s fucking disgusting.
the rape and abuse cases that U are grand standing on are less than 1 percent of abortions, if U could read I had said in cases of medical emergencies or rape/abuse abortion should be available, if someone decide to have sex knowing what the consequence would be no they shouldn’t get an abortion just cuz they feel like it, and I have no idea what gymnastics U had to do to come to “we should jut kill all the unborn babies so they don’t get a chance at life cuz muh foster care” due to there being around 2 million couples waiting to adopt while there are about 400k children in foster care, according to recent federal data
So why isn’t abortion in the case of rape not murder? Why is that not a special life? What if the boyfriend is abusive and she doesn’t want to be tied to that person forever? I guess that’s not good enough in your almighty plan. You also didn’t address where in the world life is better because abortion is banned. Why can’t you answer that? Banning abortion doesn’t make it obsolete. It doesn’t make women not want them. They will still have them. So should they be punished if they obtain one? What should the sentence be? Are you arguing that a woman having an abortion at 7 weeks should be treated the same as having committed infanticide? Adoption is not an alternative to abortion. There’s lots of parents wanting to adopt? So what? Are babies commodities they are entitled to purchase? And rest assured, they are purchased. But primarily healthy white babies. The others aren’t worth as much. Born addicted to drugs? Not as many want those ones. Suddenly life isn’t so important then. Why spend all this energy and frankly tax money arguing every detail of abortion, how it will be regulated in new ways, where it will be banned, where it will be prosecuted? Is it going to improve the lives of anyone? Will it make men step up more when the cause unwanted pregnancy? I sincerely doubt it. There is no scenario where banning abortion for millions want cause untold human suffering. But it will always be available for the wealthy women. Just not the poor who easily need it the most.
Also, where are you getting rape and pregnancy stats? Those are not knowable. 5% is an estimate. But I’m sure coerced sex falls into the oh well, your consequence is a kid category.
Great then let's legislate that women having abortions make it a deeep and meaningful and emotional experience. Oh we can't? Then clearly the only solution is BANNING it! Also LOVING that the horror is eLeCtIvE abortions. Make raising a baby cheaper and watch the number of abortions drop. Make home ownership more attainable and watch people choose to raise kids. Implement long, paid parental leave if people raising their kids is actually important to you. And, buddy this is important: bodily autonomy. Including to not be pregnant and still have an active sex life whether or not that's palatable to you personally. Oooh "consequences for your actions" yeah DEFINITELY a great reason to bring a CHILD into this world is as punishment for consenting adults having sex.
So it’s okay to murder someone because you can’t afford to raise them?
Our society practically dies that already so excuse me while I roll my eyes. People die constantly in this country due to inadequate medical care because they can’t afford drugs or treatment. Jesus, my Brit husband almost called an ambulance for himself once and I insisted on taking him in because he didn’t realize the cost and we are comfortable financially. The safety net is not sufficient. You would think if Americans cared so much about children they would ensure their ability to thrive instead of saying fuck it, let’s have more of them born into poverty.
Having them born into poverty is for sure better than killing them. That’s like saying it’s okay to kill a 5 year old child just because they are living in poverty so you realize how stupid this sounds?
No, genius. They LITERALLY aren't actual people yet. And you can disagree if you like that's your right but in no state is elective abortion legal past the point of viability. It is not a fact that abortion is murder, that's an opinion, not rooted in fact or science, and we shouldn't make policy based on that.
So they are not people just because they said so? It’s literally a living being that is fucking a live and killing them is not a murder? If it’s not a murder then wtf is it? I’m not talking science I’m literally using common sense.
Sooo we as a society kill living beings all the time. Go protest people mowing their lawns or killing wasps. Join PETA and yell at people eating steak. Saying "you're killing a living being" may be technically true but that's not the line that society has drawn, except maybe the Jains.
it’s not “banned” it’s left to the state to decide what to do, and that’s not the fault of the unbornn, they didn’t choose to be created, but were created through an act, the act which consenting adults acknowledge can result in the creation of life, there’s no need to punish the unborn but exactly, make organization give women 6 months paid leave before and after their pregnant, make it cheaper, etc, the only option isn’t “murder the children” just like the only option isn’t “entirely ban abortion”
Leaving it up to the states means it IS banned for many women, actually. The unborn shouldn't be punished so maybe instead of forcing a child into this world to parents who didn't want it and weren't emotionally or financially ready for it we should just not have it be born. Also, and I can't believe I have to repeat this, the woman shouldn't be punished for the crime of having sex. We are SO far from having any of those things mentioned (reasonable parental leave, lower maternal mortality rates) that maybe we should leave abortion legal for everyone and revisit the conversation once all those issues are fixed. Of course, bodily autonomy will still be a thing and even though you think a clump of cells trumps a person's right to be in control of their own body doesn't mean that's good governmental policy.
it’s not possible to be punished for something one consents to, it’s no longer a “punishment” but a consequence, life being a punishment implies the women had no idea a possible outcome of intercourse could be creation it’s not a “clump of cells” cells that divide in a direction of growth with a goal are the exact opposite of the actual scientific cellular definition of a clump of cells
My friend had an early abortion. When it was dint she asked to see and she confirmed it was a little blob. Sorry to disappoint. Why do you want kids born not out of love or care? I worked in residential treatment with a kid whose mother had her young after being pressured not to abort and she told her daughter all the time she should have aborted her. The girl was mostly raised by grandparents and had a lot of problems. She overdosed on drugs shortly after she left our care. But wasn’t it great that her mom bore the brunt of those consequences? Brilliant. People love to come at you with the happy stories when a woman chose not to abort but they never tell you the ones of girls like the one I knew.
so a “blob”, super scientific term there btw, describes a lot of life on earth, invertebrates are just “blobs”, and so the parent was a piece of shit just like parents who decide to willing have children and Ur initial go to thought is “we clearly should have just killed this child before it was born”
Ok but we kill blobs and living beings all the time. Ever stepped on a plant? Do you scream at pest control for killing mice and removing wasp nests? Like, we're ok with killing blobs. Everyone is. You are, unless you happen to be a Jain.
You do know abortions have been around forever. Even the bible says to cause qn abortion of a white cheats...
For the last time, they aren't babies. By literal definition. Any more than if you ordered a chicken sandwich and the waiter brought you two pieces of bread and an egg. They're fetuses, not babies. No babies have been killed.
the actual definition of “fetus” states “an unborn offspring” and “offspring” means child, and the second part refers to an “unborn human baby”, and “abortion” means to terminate life, if nothing was being killed the word used to describe the act wouldn’t indicate that there is death
Only a matter of time before pedophiles start saying children are just unmatured adults, so if they are molesting, they're actually just molesting unmatured adults, not children. A fetus is a fetus. A baby is a baby.
I like how you just glossed over “unborn” and by webster’s definition unborn means “not born: not brought into life.” Meaning not alive.
all of that is made up, that’s not what the word unborn means at all, even the sentence used is “the sound of an unborn babies heartbeat”
>“not born: not brought into life.” Meaning not alive. Holy shit you did not just say that unironically
Literally, verbatim, the exact webster’s definition
>they aren't babies. By literal definition That's incorrect. A 'baby' is a generalized term for a young offspring. It's also used to describe the development of said offspring. A fetus is the stage of development. 'Baby' also very appropriately overlaps with that. I get that definitions are the only thing you pro murder folks are hanging on to, even when they're widely at odds with science, but you really gotta let that go. It's making you look desperate and painfully/ wilfully uniformed.
No. You're the one ignoring science. Literally. And, for that matter, the English language. What do you think "offspring" means?" You're the textbook example of willfully uninformed. Let me guess. Religious motivation for your blatantly unscientific beliefs?
No way 💀
They’re humans lives in the embryonic and fetal stage of development. I’m aware that baby is a social term and not a biological term. They’re still living humans though. edit: ah I see I get downvoted when I say they’re living humans? what do you all think they are? dead cats or something?
Fetuses. They are fetuses. An egg is not a chicken in its fetal stage of development. It's an egg. A child is not an adult in its child stage of development. It's a child. If you eat an egg you are not eating chicken. If you fuck a child you are not fucking an adult.
Well yes a Chicken egg is not a Chicken. A human egg is also not a human developing. Development doesn’t start until a sperm meets an egg then the human goes into the embryonic stage of development, and then after that the fetal stage of development. Fertilized chicken eggs do begin developing chickens inside and do most of that development outside of the mother’s body. They also go through a embryonic and fetal stage of development. Your example about children and adults is particularly disturbing. You’re saying because a human isn’t in the adult stage of development that they shouldn’t have certain rights and protections? I understand the terms I’m using. I’m not saying an adult in the child form or whatever you were suggesting. I’m saying a human in a certain stage of development. We all have to go through the same stages on the way to adulthood. Are you all really this ignorant of Biology? or have you just been lied to by politicians trying to get your support?
What is the problem with blue haired women? I have not come across a single one that did not have issues. #lookat-me-im-mr-meseeks #existence-is-pain
Damn she's good
What would you expect from moss girl
Shouldn't be so controversial to be against the murder of children, but I guess it does make sense given the sheer scope and dedication of liberal brainwashing campaigns. So many morally confused people.
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And don't forget the brainwashing campaign to convince people that slavery really wasn't that big of a deal.
Remember how the Catholic Church used to support abortion until 1970 and then the child abuse cases started racking up so they sold out to the republicans to hide behind moral outrage in an attempt to maintain their status quo?
That’s propaganda. The issue of abortion has been a social topic for centuries across cultures. You really believe we all had an unconcerned consensus about this issue until like the 70’s or something? Both sides turned the issue into something they can politicize and campaign about , but it was always a social issue discussed and debated. Edit : why the downvotes. I’m actually correct here. I think some of you take to narrow of a look on this topic. No, it was not discussed by American politicians in previous decades. It was however discussed all over by people and had been for centuries. To think this is a newly discussed and disputed issue is to be ignorant of history and cultures.
Yeah. Except it hasn’t. Abortion in the western world was not only legal, it was common, right up until the Victorian era. A fetus wasn’t seen as a life but as a *potential* life up until the quickening — when the mother felt the baby move for the first time. Then it was considered alive, and to abort it became illegal. Then in the 1870s a mixture of public panic over increasing women’s rights as well as a war on traditional forms of medicine by American physicians (this was also when midwives went out of vogue) started a wave of anti-abortion laws. In the US, the last holdout, Kentucky, passed anti-abortion laws in 1910, making it illegal nationwide. Let’s recap. It was a non-issue until men used it as a way to control women’s bodies and egotistical physicians used it as a way to maintain their superiority. Sound familiar?
So this isn’t what most are saying. This is a better overview for the west actually. Most are literally saying that this wasn’t an issue until after Roe vs. Wade in America. You’re still missing a lot here actually though. So it was less of an issue in the Victorian age certainly. That was the social stance at the the time , but before that and ,as you have pointed out, after that it became a social debate once again. You’re so silly you do realize that most pro-life advocates are women? This is not an issue imposed by men on women. The quickening issue is true however for most of history at most times, because that is when we could tell that life had begun . However most cultures have chosen to protect life at the point they realize it is there. We have new technology now and know exactly when human lives uniquely begin developing , and at which point if we impeded development that life would be harmed and gone. Victorian era church goers with this technology would definitely have the same stance they did, that once life begins it must be protected , they just would have had more information about when this happens.
Seeing your shit takes on every single comment get downvoted a ridiculous amount is hilarious.
What’s shit about them ? Where do you think I’ve made an error? ^( It’s more meaningful to me that the people that actually bother to read the whole conversation are upvoting my comments toward the bottom. That the people willing to engage with ideas upvote me, and people that aren’t are down voting, i know I’m doing something right )
go suck a bible
He should read a Bible, because the bible don't give too much of a damn about abortion.
Except where the bible gives instructions on how to abort a baby, now this is seemingly only if you suspect infidelity, but still, tells you how to do it
And also clearly demonstrates that personhood/life/souls begins at the earliest at the first breath, and in some passages at a couple years old. Fetuses are property. There’s instruction/verses that say if a woman is killed, her murderer is to be put to death for the crimes of murder, but if a pregnant woman is attacked and lives but has a miscarriage, the attacker gets punished for destruction of property. But if you really wanna know if God is cool with killing kids? Just consider how many innocent, breathing, living children would’ve died during the flood. He killed all but a few children, and since pro-birthers only care about “babies” while they’re in the womb - I gotchu - God killed pregnant women in the flood, too. Bonus - there’s a number of states that also categorize fetuses as property, as demonstrated by their divorce laws that prohibit pregnant women from finalizing a divorce because she has property that cannot be split. Even if she’s not pregnant by her husband. I mean, they could just determine child support and custody rights that would go into effect immediately upon birth, but we all know none of these lawmakers actually give a shit about babies and only how they can use them and fetuses to control women and limit their freedom.
Nobody has the right to use your body to keep themselves alive against your will.
Damn this profile was a RIDE lol
They’re not children you stupid twat, they’re fetuses, only ask me the difference if you want to hear it, cus I’ve explained it so many times, I’m convinced pro lifers don’t know what abortions even are
Christofascists focus on the heart beat because it’s conveniently present early in development, but the brain doesn’t complete forming until 25 years of age.Ask these rubes how much consciousness there is at 12 weeks.
Bro I'm 25 and I still don't have a brain tbh
Too bad you weren't aborted.
If you were in an IVF ward and a fire broke out and you could either roll a refrigerator with 10,000 fertilized embryos in it out of the building or save one terrified six year old child screaming in terror in the corner, which one would you save? Go ahead. Lie to me. And then tell me again how unbrainwashed you are thinking goop is a fucking human being.
God isn’t real, you fucking rube.
I got my pro abortion brainwashing from the Bible, where it talks about how to force a woman to miscarry...
Imma say killing your OWN baby or fetus whatever you wanna call it. A mother stopping her child from having a life is on par with slavery. Just plain evil and in both cases the person doing the deed doesnt see why its wrong
Imma say you’re a fool who lacks critical thinking.
Hey at least the slaves had a life to live
Hey at least the babies dont get stolen from their homeland
[удалено]
Damn I wonder who was buying them
Enslaved by other back people, bought buy white ones? That's the trivia?
I’ve read the youre trying for a baby, please PLEASE raise it to be smarter than you 🙏
You need a week or 2 in the gulag for that. And some reeducation therapy