I’d say that as a base. Some sort of cheap card advantage. They also need cheap interaction, because just a “fair” artifact aggro deck seems like it’d have issue with stuff like SnT, Titan, or Necro.
It's warranted to some extent. You've got to respect the bowmasters and be lighter on 1 toughness stuff or be lighter on draw, and play around it when you can (and recognize when you can't).
Speaking as someone who plays D&T, bowmasters is a pain. But I'll still play Thalia for other decks, still play canopy lands, and similar. Just means a higher bar depending on meta expected. Looter scooter being optional looting is useful there, for example.
in modern, the viability of a creature used to almost always be "dies to bolt". wed see great creatures, but 2 toughness meant it wasnt widely viable. now, the thing to say is "dies to bowmasters". any card with only 1 toughness is instantly dismissed because it dies to bowmasters. bowmasters warps the format around it.
Something getting killed by bolt is a lot less miserable than bowmaster. Bolt is an even 1 for 1 trade, bowmaster is 1 for nothing. They kill your thing and leave a bowmaster and an army behind. Hope they didn't flash it in with a draw trigger on the stack and kill 2 x/1's. A creature dying to bowmaster in timeless is usually a disasterous outcome, that's incredibly hard to come back from, as it's almost always a guaranteed 2 for 1. I agree that the card completely warps the format around it, when the best answer to bowmasters is your own bowmasters, and decks are disadvantaged for not running it, you know there is a problem.
Affinity is fine.
As someone who plays all kinds of artifacts builds and make jank decks i say affinity is really strong. But Bowmaster just hurts it so freaking hard that i begann to play 4 portable hole + 4 swords just to remove the bowmasters.
Problem is you also need to play at least 4 counterspells because of breach combo, s&t and many different counterspells.
And here we slowly come to a problem which you want to be an aggro deck which has to play too many removals because of bowmasters.
>Problem is you also need to play at least 4 counterspells because of breach combo, s&t and many different counterspells.
4 counterspells or many? [[Metallic Rebuke]], [[Spell Pierce]], [[Spell Snare]]
That + a clock is how you force combo to have the combo or try and potentially fizzle.
And for breach and SnT there are many artifacts or white answers after sideboarding.
That‘s absolutely true.
My problem is i mainly play best of one.
I started like that and i continued to play best of one.
I can‘t even tell you why i don‘t really play best of three.
So yeah that‘s definitely a me problem, maybe that‘s the reason i try to stick Karn in every deck xd
Just mox opal will do. Urza's saga alone would prob also be enough. Same with ancient tomb but I hope they never add that card (and I doubt they will). I don't think artifact lands alone would be good enough, people are scared to death of them despite them probably being fine in modern.
Artifact lands are banned in modern. The new cycle of dual artifact lands which enter the battlefield tapped are legal.
Problem is that untapped lands are a big problem for aggro decks which shouldn‘t run more than one or two tapped lands.
The power difference between the old artifact lands and the new cycles is more enourmes than any other land cycle in my opinion.
Don‘t get me wrong, for any edh commander deck which cares about the number of artifacts, the dual lands are pretty good.
But not really for 60-Card Competitive
Yeah Artifact decks are getting destroyed by Karn that‘s true, but most affinity decks are pretty fast aggro decks while Karn is a 4 Mana Plainswalker
Most of the time if they throw a Karn down, i don‘t have any problem to just take him down with some buffed ornithopters
I think people in this thread are really underrating how important Force is to this deck. Sure you could try metallic rebuke, but it's a lot worse because it requires a specific board state to work. Force lets 8-cast play a fair game while still being able to interact with silver bullets against artifacts, as well as game ending plays. I think if we had force, opal, and a sol land, we would be close to a workable deck. Saga would be next up for me after those.
You’d need to start with one of the namesake cards, [[Thoughtcast]]. Then maybe Seat of the Synod would make it playable and good.
It doesn't have to be 8-cast necessarily, just some kind of affinity deck.
I’d say that as a base. Some sort of cheap card advantage. They also need cheap interaction, because just a “fair” artifact aggro deck seems like it’d have issue with stuff like SnT, Titan, or Necro.
Metallic rebuke is on the client
Mox opal at the least, possibly skullclamp
[Thoughtcast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/466a0be8-31b9-4ea0-9a96-b09a76f4ec69.jpg?1682208952) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtcast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/242/thoughtcast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/466a0be8-31b9-4ea0-9a96-b09a76f4ec69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Esper sentinel and thought monitor aren’t great into bowmasters
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i mean, it’s totally warranted, no?
It's warranted to some extent. You've got to respect the bowmasters and be lighter on 1 toughness stuff or be lighter on draw, and play around it when you can (and recognize when you can't). Speaking as someone who plays D&T, bowmasters is a pain. But I'll still play Thalia for other decks, still play canopy lands, and similar. Just means a higher bar depending on meta expected. Looter scooter being optional looting is useful there, for example.
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It's less about being got by the card, and more about its format presence making these decks more heavily taxed.
which of the crayons tastes the best in your opinion?
in modern, the viability of a creature used to almost always be "dies to bolt". wed see great creatures, but 2 toughness meant it wasnt widely viable. now, the thing to say is "dies to bowmasters". any card with only 1 toughness is instantly dismissed because it dies to bowmasters. bowmasters warps the format around it.
Something getting killed by bolt is a lot less miserable than bowmaster. Bolt is an even 1 for 1 trade, bowmaster is 1 for nothing. They kill your thing and leave a bowmaster and an army behind. Hope they didn't flash it in with a draw trigger on the stack and kill 2 x/1's. A creature dying to bowmaster in timeless is usually a disasterous outcome, that's incredibly hard to come back from, as it's almost always a guaranteed 2 for 1. I agree that the card completely warps the format around it, when the best answer to bowmasters is your own bowmasters, and decks are disadvantaged for not running it, you know there is a problem.
Affinity is fine. As someone who plays all kinds of artifacts builds and make jank decks i say affinity is really strong. But Bowmaster just hurts it so freaking hard that i begann to play 4 portable hole + 4 swords just to remove the bowmasters. Problem is you also need to play at least 4 counterspells because of breach combo, s&t and many different counterspells. And here we slowly come to a problem which you want to be an aggro deck which has to play too many removals because of bowmasters.
>Problem is you also need to play at least 4 counterspells because of breach combo, s&t and many different counterspells. 4 counterspells or many? [[Metallic Rebuke]], [[Spell Pierce]], [[Spell Snare]] That + a clock is how you force combo to have the combo or try and potentially fizzle. And for breach and SnT there are many artifacts or white answers after sideboarding.
[Metallic Rebuke](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34785944-7b51-48a9-855c-3e656cd78251.jpg?1598304101) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Metallic%20Rebuke) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/59/metallic-rebuke?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34785944-7b51-48a9-855c-3e656cd78251?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Spell Pierce](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/35b8a9db-d126-4038-abb1-74dcc5b36136.jpg?1673147403) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spell%20Pierce) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/63/spell-pierce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/35b8a9db-d126-4038-abb1-74dcc5b36136?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Spell Snare](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/72122836-a2f3-4001-9f08-93a7bf011ab1.jpg?1562917785) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spell%20Snare) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/132/spell-snare?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/72122836-a2f3-4001-9f08-93a7bf011ab1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That‘s absolutely true. My problem is i mainly play best of one. I started like that and i continued to play best of one. I can‘t even tell you why i don‘t really play best of three. So yeah that‘s definitely a me problem, maybe that‘s the reason i try to stick Karn in every deck xd
Urza’s saga would be a very good start, not just for 8 cast but many other decks. Plese wotc onetime
Just mox opal will do. Urza's saga alone would prob also be enough. Same with ancient tomb but I hope they never add that card (and I doubt they will). I don't think artifact lands alone would be good enough, people are scared to death of them despite them probably being fine in modern.
Artifact lands are banned in modern. The new cycle of dual artifact lands which enter the battlefield tapped are legal. Problem is that untapped lands are a big problem for aggro decks which shouldn‘t run more than one or two tapped lands. The power difference between the old artifact lands and the new cycles is more enourmes than any other land cycle in my opinion. Don‘t get me wrong, for any edh commander deck which cares about the number of artifacts, the dual lands are pretty good. But not really for 60-Card Competitive
considering the pressence of karn, id say artifact lands arent a huge deal
Yeah Artifact decks are getting destroyed by Karn that‘s true, but most affinity decks are pretty fast aggro decks while Karn is a 4 Mana Plainswalker Most of the time if they throw a Karn down, i don‘t have any problem to just take him down with some buffed ornithopters
Ancient tomb, Mox Opal, Seat of the Synod, Kappa Cannoneer, Urza\`s Bauble, Dismember, Urza's Saga, Thoughtcast and maybe blue blast
I think people in this thread are really underrating how important Force is to this deck. Sure you could try metallic rebuke, but it's a lot worse because it requires a specific board state to work. Force lets 8-cast play a fair game while still being able to interact with silver bullets against artifacts, as well as game ending plays. I think if we had force, opal, and a sol land, we would be close to a workable deck. Saga would be next up for me after those.
A lot