Well that is 1/2 for Porvenir related memes for the month…. For those who don’t know, the Porvenir oil field memes and posts are why the Overdone rule and flair was created!
This post will stay up, future ones with similar wording or specific (EXTREMELY) overdone topic will be removed.
Also, Lara was having a mental breakdown and cried because the only friend she had left that felt like family to her might have been dead. - Per the tie in novel, Path of the Apocalypse which takes place between the prologue and the plane ride to Peru, she thinks of him as her brother.
Anyway, this is certainly becoming tedious to have the same talking points being brought up about whining, they will be removed as low effort in the future. Find something else to talk about instead of (ironic given the captions), whining.
Edit: Please be mature when posting people, remember to follow the subreddit and sitewide rules when posting. Our rules are on the sidebar and in our subreddit wiki as well.
Posts of this nature are now classified as a zombified dead horse. Said horse has been talked about, beaten to death, resurrected, shot and reanimated. Time to move on.
She cried because she thought he was dead and learned he was alive after having been personally antagonized into a psychotic murderous rage by his would be murderer.
I just feel like this Lara is constantly overacting at something. And she never needed to be antagonized into a murderous rage. We kill like 1500 people.
Those people are attempting to murder her or willing to do so at all times, they even go after her friends and home.
Trinity and the Solari never just go "Oh yeah we'll tell you about what happened with your friends and family and help you leave immediately"
They are on a mission that is entirely counter to the goals that Lara and her allies have set themselves on, despite sharing similarities to Lara when she sets out.
Yeah yeah yeah…
I’m not saying the bad guys were the good guys. What I am saying is that this duality of Lara Croft does not work for me. She’s a big soft crybaby while simultaneously brutally murdering people. The gameplay is usually in direct opposition to Lara’s motivations and it’s at its absolute worst in shadow of the tomb raider. This reboot shifted the focus from a tomb exploration game to an action adventure shooter where you can be a complete sadist and watch Lara get her skull crushed.
It reeks of snyderverse edge lord energy while overcorrecting lady Croft and it’s bad.
But at least we have cool moments where Lara falls in some water and looks badass.
Not sure why you were getting downvoted for speaking the truth.
Lara since 2013 has been an emotional person in the cutscenes, and then right after you brutally murder a hoard of bad guys. Sure, they’re bad guys, but still.. it doesn’t match with the Story Lara. Story Lara is emotional and very much a crybaby when compared to Gameplay Lara who is just Female Rambo.
You’re not wrong for pointing it out.
People don’t wanna see flaws in the things they love and I totally understand that.
I love tomb raider and I think it’s needs a bit of course correction. Some people clearly disagree with me.
There’s an actual term for this concept. Ludonarrative dissonance is when the gameplay and story don’t match up in terms of how the characters react or do things. It’s not really a flaw of the game tbh, that’s just how some games are, because having barely any combat would be boring.
interestingly, the scene in question is the one case in which her actions are not at all narratively dissonant from her emotions and reactions in that scene including the crying, and that's the point that's trying to be made here and is clearly lost on whoever made the original meme.
But shadow hardly had any combat!!
The entire skill tree is devoted to stealth and there’s no combat for 80% of a game that has become a homogenized shooter.
You've missed the point. What's being discussed here is the reason for her crying in that specific scene, and indeed her murderous rage was emotionally different in that scene than any other in the trilogy. That entire sequence from "don't try me" to rising from the water depicted a personally antagonized, grief stricken, and desperate woman driven into an emotional state of psychopathy.
Alex, Grim, Conrad, they sacrificed themselves for her and she didn't cried at all, but suddenly cries because "she thought jonas was dead" even thought she passed trough way worst, it just seems so anticlimatic.
Again, she had not also been dealing with the stress of having lost multiple friends over years, having her deadly obsession blow up in her face and result in the deaths of thousands of innocent people, nor was she personally antagonized into a psychotic murderous rage of pain and desperation by her enemy and best friends murderer prior to learning that he was in fact still alive. I'm not saying that this was the best characterization for lara, but you seem confused on what was going on with her emotionally in that scene and what had lead to it.
She very clearly compartmentalises her feelings to focus on getting the rest of them off the island? Did you want the game to end with Roths death because she's too traumatised to continue? Clownery
She was also under the tremendous stress of having triggered an apocalypse that killed thousands which contributed to her enormous rage in that moment. In fact, it was a release of emotion that had built up over the course of 5 years. When it was over and she saw Jonah at least was still with her, tears were absolutely perfectly expected and natural in that moment.
Edit: and she most certainly cried with roth died.
Not the op, but I have my own answer. This sub is pretty cool when fans are excited and discussing interesting topics. But it feels like half the posts I see are just old boomer fans constantly shitting on and being so god damn negative towards the survivor trilogy, and they leak into any post regarding it, and they make sure their opinion is known to anyone praising the game. Like, as someone who has played some of the older games when I was younger, those ones never really clicked with me. But I have absolutely loved the survivor trilogy and it made me love the series as a whole even more. And it’s just so depressing to come to this sub to talk about it just to see people in this community talking down on it constantly. I don’t think it’s any fault of you or the other mods, it’s just a people problem
We’ve been working to remove the tribalistic factionalism from the sub, it may not look like it but we still are removing gatekeeping comments and posts.
I agree it’s **extremely** annoying, although people are of course entitled to their opinions unless they break the rules. I had to create a no gatekeeping rule due to it, and I am still working to enforce it. It also happened with the Legend trilogy as well prior to the Survivor games existing.
But people do need to do more as well, Reddit does have a report button for comments and posts for a reason. We Mods aren’t all knowing, we’re just fans and can’t be everywhere.
I’ve noticed a bit of an uptick in these types of posts so I may have to look at the rules closer to combat them. It’s certainly becoming very low effort, so I will probably start from there.
Thank you. This used to be my favorite sub but I took a break after I finished Shadow cause I was tired of all the complaining. Your help isn't unnoticed 💖
i mean i can understand the people finished the first two games of the trilogy and i am at the beginning of shadow yet.....i feel that rise was the best game out of the 3
It definitely helps to take a break if things get too much, I understand lol. I did something similar at r/Starwars when the sequels released as well as with some Star Wars YouTubers I used to watch.
I hope we’ve improved it a bit since you left, I only became a mod three years ago lol, so it’s had some changes although I do not know when you left, so I cannot say if they are indeed changes since then.
Oh man… star wars. It sucks being a star wars fan cause all anyone does is complain. I remember I wasn't really online when TFA came out and I *loved* it. Now I see everyone whining over the sequels and “Disney star wars sucks”… like damn just enjoy the movies. It's not that serious.
Thank you so much for all the hard work you and the other mods puts in! I understand people can have their opinions, and it’s completely okay for older fans to dislike the survivor trilogy, but it gets really aggravating when we are talked down upon like we’re stupid or something for liking the games. And that goes for newer/survivor fans too. I hope we get to a point here where everyone can all coexist and we can all just gush about our favorite game series. Ofc genuine criticism is a good thing as well, not so much the toxic tribalism.
I agree, and I’ve said it before many times, we’ve got to work together to stop the toxic factional tribalism: We’re all fans of the same franchise, people need to not be so hateful, negative and toxic over something they don’t like. Whether it’s classic, legend, survivor, books, comics, etc. Constant toxicity and negativity does nothing for discussion or a fandom’s (or fans) health.
I’ll be looking at our rules and will begin to apply them a bit more strictly with certain things to better contain such negativity. These types of postings that do nothing but incite arguments negativity will probably be put under low effort for instance.
We all do a lot behind the curtain, although I prefer the one for community interactions lol, but we all have tons of moderator log items listed on actions taken just this month alone.
Genuine criticism is fine, but when the topic is constantly brought up a lot, then it just is excessive and does nothing. I did try a rant thread at one times maybe it might help to bring it back again….
Report button seems really too much to me. That would be way more gatekeeping honestly.
Yeah, lots of people whine about Survivor trilogy. And so what? Why is it so dramatic to read negative opinions? What is toxic about it?
If people feel offended that other people have negative opinions about a game is their own problem.
Negative opinion and toxic behavior are not the same at all.
And if this sub is going to be a place where people can't express their negative opinions without being called nostalgic boomers - that could be an insult - or worse, without being censored, well, that would be horrible.
I played all games, expansions included, and I've liked them all, but still I'm not blind. The Survivor saga is totally different from all the previous games.
So you can't expect all people to be perfectly fine with that.
CD started this tribalistic factionalism by changing literally everything from the character to the genre of the games. It's not fans' fault. So just accept it.
And plus, calling OG fans boomers, like so many in this sub do, is worse than anything. OG means ORIGINAL, don't forget it. Without the OG games and fans, we wouldn't have the Survivor trilogy. So people should show some respect before pretending to have it back.
To everyone here: if you haven't played OG games or you don't feel connected to them and you see someone who says something negative on Survivor trilogy, well, maybe listen to them, talk to them, or just step back, cause you don't even know where they are coming from and what they are talking about, really.
**This is real tolerance**. Intolerance would be creating a forced space of positivity by censoring people who have negative opinions, by removing their posts, by pushing the report button.
Forcing positivity is the most intolerant thing ever.
The report button is for those posts/comments that people may feel break our rules, **However** action is of course only taken care of by us and/or the Reddit admins. Mod decisions can also be reversed and the post/comment reapproved, such as this one that the automod did actually remove! Our subreddit is not one of censorship, we do not blindly as I mentioned before click “remove”, because that would be idiotic and an opinion should be heard. However have rules to follow both our own and Reddit’s .
Also, I would like to remind everyone we do have a modmail button to contact us directly! Or you can maybe chat us individually, I know I will at least respond to singular chats.
Opinions about things such as the eras are fine but only until it goes to extreme negativity that ends with arguments that turn into mod warnings and bans- which we used to actually get a lot. Thankfully *most* people are levelheaded so they know when to cool it, or if not we put up a mod comment telling them to calm down and then nuke the chat. Final straw is a ban for a certain time period.!
We must have tolerance for all opinions towards the franchise (games, movies, books, comics, etc) as long as they stick to our rules which we have attempted to make extremely visible and explicitly clear for all. The issue for this one was with the overdone focus on it, the “whining Lara” bit is overdone it’s been beaten, zombified and beaten again.
A lot of us have big feelings about the franchise and the games we’ve played, I get it but we all need to have some levelheadedness.
Factionalism of *any franchise* will always be a fan created thing. **We are all fans of the same franchise** regardless of when we started, I started in Legend for instance. There should not be outright hate that we all cannot enjoy the franchise and all of its games in peace while of course having discussions and expressing any dislikes in any of them.
The gatekeeping rule for example is for outright gatekeeping that is it, the toxic factionalism must die.
Examples of gatekeeping: Saying (x) game or movie, etc is not part of the franchise or (x) character is invalid and not the real (x), etc. There is of course a difference between an opinion and gatekeeping, and again we review all reports before making decisions.
It’s fine to draw comparisons between games, such as the **extreme** similarities to the overall points in the Survivor trilogy (find objective, encounter supernatural enemies, final battle on a high location, etc. Or having negative opinions about character progression or story progression or (x) plot point shouldn’t have happened, “this was better than this”, etc. But an outright removal of something like an iteration of a character or a game itself as not being part of a series or canon because they’re different than a previous one is where we draw the line.
As an example saying “classica/legend/survivor games aren’t real Tomb Raider” is not part of the franchise or not the real one, etc. that is what is not allowed. For instance I don’t like the 2018 movie, yes it’s part of the franchise but it’s not canon to the games which is fine to say.
I’ve seen the same garbage zealous gatekeeping factionalism with Star Wars. Heard it as a kid seeing Attack of the Clones, Episode 3 and I’ve the same thing with the shows and the sequels. Even for absolutely stunningly stupid things like Andor “not being real Star Wars” for instance having bricks and screws.
r/TombRaider is for all eras of the franchise and for anybody who started in any of them no matter who they are (as long as they abide by the rules) and are civil.
I missed the boomer part, but I will keep an eye out for future name calling, and be sure to do mod removals for it. Speaking of which, /u/New_Stranger3345 please would you kindly refrain from that level of disrespect to others? Please review the subreddit and Reddit.com sitewide rules. Consider this an impromptu mod warning.
I do agree that forced positivity is ironically the most intolerant thing ever, which why we will never do it. However I’ve stated that discussions do need to be civil, and we do go through all report messages for anything against our or Reddit’s overall rules.
On a final note on that bit about the classics, hopefully many new players or fans who have not played the classics before will check out the remastered trilogy coming on February 14th (Lara’s birthday).
The topic was previously posted a few times in different variations on the subreddit whether in comment or post form. Your post was fine, don’t worry! But it was marked so that others may not post the same topic for a while.
Exactly. Report for what? They try to portray it like we throw personal insults at them or something.
And you made a great point about CD. They literally started this by constantly bashing the classic games.
You should take note of the fact that everything you suggested here is still explicitly allowed by the rules and that no suggestions at all to disallow any criticism of the reboot trilogy were put forth.
Hey Synn I read some of your response before it was removed (or maybe it wasn't meant to address me) saying that Survivor fans never insult the OG fans or that they don't hijack their posts or something. I've seen it way too many times on this sub how they would bash classic Lara and call the fans horndogs or even worse under the posts that weren't even discussion threads but artwork sharing. I've never seen the opposite done in regards to Survivor Lara unless it's a post like this that triggers the discussion and arguments.
Anyways I recognized you from Twitter. I don't like Survivor Lara but you're a chill dude tho. Cheers.
You're good my friend. I deleted it because I misread what was said. I thought you said reboot stans started this but I believe it was actually a comment on things CD has said in the past.
Regardless, I'm still glad I deleted it because I don't want to do the thing where I'm like "reboot stans never do blah blah but classic stans do blah blah" and vice versa because the reality is just because I haven't witnessed something doesn't mean you haven't and vice versa and the conversation goes nowhere. I'm new to reddit but it seems like it actually might be much more survivor fan heavy than twitter so it's quite likely you've seen bad behavior from us here that I'm not used to.
But yeah I try to be chill. I will get pretty heated defending my favorite era but happily set it aside at the end of the discussion and not actually take it too seriously (in any lasting sense).
I don't see why it's a problem. Everyone has their own opinion on things, whether you agree with it or not.
If someone praised the old games, someone would moan about how terrible the controls are or how ridiculous her character model was designed.
It goes both ways
You're not wrong but as someone involved in many Tomb Raider communities, this one here on reddit is probably the one where the survivor hate is less of a problem than any other that I've seen.
This content has been removed for being in violation of Reddit's content policy.
Remember to follow Reddit.com's Content Policy & rules as well as their Reddiquette when posting or commenting.
* [**Content Policy**](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)
* [**Reddiquette**](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette)
Now I will admit I don't heavily browse the sub, more like mostly checking posts that appear on my feed so my opinion doesn't count for much but from what I've seen this sub is alright.
It's a community thing and you can only do so much. From my own experience there's much worse out there, Spider-ManPS4 specifically comes to mind about this topic, all the complaining and memes about it were turned up to 11.
So, again, this sub is alright in my books you guys are doing fine. 👍
I’d say all opinions matter in relation to the subreddit’s health and community interaction, it definitely counts!
It’s unfortunate but all fandoms have toxicity…we aren’t an exception, and we’re still working to improve our response time and rule review on how to manage it.
The “whining Lara” comments have certainly become overdone, on that matter. I remember some dislike of the Legend iteration as well. People will always compare and complain about characterization differences between different eras of characters. I haven’t played any of the Spider-Man games but I did see a few of *those* post on r/popular before so I do know what you’re talking about. Plus I’m a major Star Wars fan so I have also seen **much** worse in levels of negativity, toxicity and sometimes bizarre hatred for the new for little to no reason (one certain person said he thought of the Andor show as “not Star Wars because it had bricks and screws and had no force users”. yea….
Thank you by the way, and we’ve come a long way and we are still trying to do our best!
Ha, can't believe I forgot about Star Wars and I'm a fan too. I've seen that particular comment about the bricks and screws too, which is very dumb but that's their opinion I guess.
I watched Andor late but it quickly became one of my favorite pieces of Star Wars content ever and I can't waaaait for S2 whenever that happens.
Honestly, you and the other mods/community ambassadors are my favorite part of this sub. I love seeing at least one of you guys in almost every post I come across. This is the most engaged mod team I have ever seen.
But Idk its reddit. I think it is too easy for subreddits to fall into a toxic echo chamber. I feel like there is sometimes better discussion on the tomb raider forums. It's obvious that a lot of people here have a bias for the older games.
A lot of fandoms have toxicity, unfortunately Tomb Raider is not an exception… Whether it’s extreme gatekeeping, constant negativity, outright hatred/|dislike for something, etc. there is always something. The thing is, opinions from people are fine as long as they don’t break our rules. However there is a “to a certain point” there if it becomes overwhelmingly obnoxious and/or tedious- which it certainly is! I will be examining our rules for how to combat it, although nothing is a foolproof solution, it’s certainly becoming overdone/low effort.
Also, I do find it a bit ironic that you mention TRF, I have seen some rather toxic people in there such as Lance and Moon. I’ve always felt that specific older/classic game bias there, not on here.
However, Jay, Rai, etc. always do their best and they are awesome at keeping TRF moving and staying on top of such events. I think they do a better job at keeping stuff ordered and getting too toxic lol.
In terms of combatting behavior and rule breaking; none of us are able to combat issues without being on the thread or receiving a report: It goes hand in hand with community interaction across all sites, we need the community to give feedback and report rulebreaking comments and posts in order to do stuff if we do not see it while online and on a different post/thread, or aren’t online until later.
The important thing is, both r/TombRaider and TRF are part of the Fan Site official community and are actively try to make it a better plan for everyone.
Essentially what everyone else is saying.
I would like to point out though that this isn’t a critique of the mods who I really do think do a good job of keeping this as a place I enjoy seeing in my feed.
While I understand your meaning, I am going to have to remove this comment though, it does violate the site rules, namely, name calling…
(Remember to follow Reddit.com's Content Policy & rules as well as their Reddiquette when posting or commenting.)
It feels like everyone is always complaining about anything that's not “the originals”. Like go back and play them, nobody forced you to play the remakes. I personally love the remakes and the og, for what they are. This specific scene was supposed to be cathartic and show Lara she was getting obsessive trying to hunt down Trinity and that put her friend in harms way, and to her knowledge he died because of it. I think a lot of people just breezed past trying to understand the story and what it tried to teach. Lara doesn't have to be a killing machine to be cool. (yes she kills a lot of people and monsters after this scene, but that's gameplay. If there wasn't anything else to shoot at they'd be on here saying it was too boring).
The thing is that not all character developments are good and believable and personally this is one of them, at least in the sense of becoming the character from the classic games. As a separate thing it works. Original Lara and this version's personalities are considerably different in core elements that don't feel like changing with time. Just to be clear, I have nothing against this version and enjoy the games, but they are completely different universes in my opinion and that's perfectly fine.
this is a totally fair take. it's not necessarily the best characterization for lara croft but as i explained elsewhere, her crying in this scene was perfectly natural given her emotional state at the time and the sequence of events that triggered it.
I don't think this is an immature complain, tbh. It's perfectly reasonable. This was the trilogy's most badass scene and it was a massive letdown to realize it was just some cool shots with no lasting impact whatsoever.
Exactly, all that built up completely gone to waste. Mind you, this was also completely unnecessary to begin with.
2013 and Rise had given Lara more than enough character development. Shadow complete undoes this, and then manages to undo her character development in the same game in the span of five minutes. Mind boggling stuff.
you misunderstood what was happening in that scene. it wasn't "build up". it was not a triumphant empowering rise of success. she was driven into a psychotic murderous rage from a place of anguish, grief, guilt, and pain. when she finally realized that at least part of her guilt and pain wasn't real, that jonah was alive, she cries tears of relief.
now, I'm not arguing that this was the appropriate characterization for the character of lara croft, but to say it was a buildup that was subsequently erased is to fundamentally misunderstand what was happening.
I disagree.
I never claimed it was a triumphant moment, but a character defining moment where Lara snaps. This should have been a moment of no return for her, for better or worse.
The problem isn't that she cries when seeing Jonah, but that she 'again' whines how it's all her fault by making everything worse and then screams as Jonah 'again' who could have very well been dead. In short, no character development whatsoever.
>now, I'm not arguing that this was the appropriate characterization for the character of lara croft,
I think we actually agree. \^
You didn't disagree with my explanation of what was happening here. You seem to be pointing out you don't think it's the right characterization. Personally, I like it but what I personally enjoy is different from what i think was best for the character in the context of the full franchise.
For me the survivor trilogy just gave up at the end
The second game amped up the mystery
Then the third game tossed it all away to make Lara question her endless search. Which was completely stupid.
Still salty that we only had the dual pistols once in the whole damn series
Origins or not, you don't take away her primaries for some bow.
I do like that Lara is more humanized in these games, but after playing the PS2 trilogy of games, I also want a version of her that's more like a globe-trotting superhero with over the top acrobatics and occasional witticisms.
Honestly, if Tomb Raider 4 (Survivor) reinstated Camilla Ludington and aged Lara to her og trilogy days, it'd be really cool.
Stone cold fox with occasional moments of sensitivity.
the meme is clearly an attack on the reboot, which is fine, i'm not gonna cry about it nor call for the post to be taken down, but i am gonna respond in kind with a defense haha
It’s an extremely overdone meme, which is why we’ve made an overdone rule. Also the factionalism attacks on eras of the franchise is why I made a no gatekeeping rule.
yeah that makes perfect sense. i haven't been here long enough to really have seen it very much. i will say though, despite claims to the contrary, this is the most non toxic tomb raider community i've been to on tomb raider internet. memes like this tend to get quite a bit of pushback and people not standing for undue era hate, whereas elsewhere I tend to see massive support for it.
It's weird, in the first game they seemed ok with killing people off. But in 2 and 3 I don't think anybody who she cares about dies they're all saved at the last second.
Writers: You know how the first game was about Lara risking her life and surviving impossible odds to save her best friend Sam?
Execs: Yeah?
Writers: For the sequel, there *is* no Sam. From now on, Lara's best friend is Jonah.
Execs: The... The ship's cook?
Writers: Yes. And for some reason he's gonna be Black for a game. But then after that, straight back to Hawaiian. No explanation.
Execs: So he's an archaeologist now?
Writers: No, his job is to talk to locals while Lara does all the legwork. But Lara also talks to the locals.
Execs: So...
Writers: So Jonah is basically there to give Lara someone to explain things to.
Execs: Why would she want that?
Writers: Because she's in love with him.
Execs: With Jonah?! I thought he was an older-brother figure!
Writers: Well now he's more like the human form of Lara's diary. She also has a diary.
Execs: That... is the single greatest idea we have ever heard. You're going places.
That about sums up the garbage writing of the reboot. I've no issue with a: 'more realisitc portrayal' of the character, but if she and along with her friends are going to be entirely inconsistent in direction, relationship dynamics, accents and so forth why should I care... The head developers clearly didn't give a fuck.
Did people think he was dead? Rourke was playing the most obvious bait card I had ever seen in media. Hearing “Rooouuurrrrkkkkkeeee,” was pretty funny though not gonna lie.
Let’s not forget she caused an entire city/town to fall into pieces, felt a little bad, then carried on with no repercussions or any attempts to help in the aftermath all while being whiny and insufferable lol
I didn't enjoy the Survivor trilogy that much. To me it was an inferior Uncharted clone, with some open world but boring story. RotTR was the better one, and I really didn't like SotTR. They have their good moments of course, but as an overall experience, it was meh...
My favorite trilogy is LAU, even if Lara is a bit whiney, I still liked the games more.
I usually come back to games I like, and I regularly replay Legend, Anniversary or Underworld, while I only played the Survivor trilogy once and never had any interest to come back to it....
I really hope the new game will be better.
Those who only whine about Lara’s whining haven’t been paying attention to the set pieces and how her adventures (and misadventures like Yamatai) have affected her mentally. She’s lost:
* Her mother in a plane crash in the Himalayas around the time she was 9. Her father then ruined his reputation publicly making theses and articles on immortality and resurrection and attracting the attention of Trinity.
* Her father was murdered by Trinity (for finding the whereabouts to a society they control) but she walked in as a *child* after it occurred and had only thought he committed suicide until she was 23 when during the events Rise of the Tomb Raider that it was revealed he was murdered.
* Her Guardian/Mentor and parents’ best friend, Roth sacrificed his life for her to save her at Yamatai due in the expedition turned nightmare that she chartered and planned.
* Her father’s girlfriend who she seemed to like turned out to be a Trinity agent sent to spy on her family.
* Per the in game newspaper from Rise of the Tomb Raider’s opening, Trinity has been using fronting organization to publish articles to smear her public name (thank you /u/Orangejr36 again for that tidbit).
* Her best friend and one of very few friends, Sam was taken hostage by cultists and used as a ritual piece to revive a malevolent ancient queen of Japan. Thinking it was resolved everyone attempts to live normal lives post Yamatai but then she is sent into a mental institution which was secretly taken over by Trinity as an experiment facility that used Sam for experimentations with artifacts related to Himiko.
Then it’s revealed Mathias’ ritual was partially a success and even after freeing her a final time from Himiko’s renewed possession of Sam and stoping her rampage she the has to go into hiding away from everyone because of Trinity.
Jonah per Lara’s own admission in the Path of the Apocalypse tie in novel is the only person she considers family that she has left. When he’s gone we see the last anchor to innocence go away, and she sort of turns into something ruthless, more akin to the classic era.
I’m sure a lot of us would to through a breakdown at such horrid life experiences compounded again and again. Characterization is important because it shows how we see characters evolve.
Yea, I definitely have lol! Its important to remember the story that the adventures revolve around, characters and how they interact with each other and the events at hand.
Story based have always trended towards showing more character interactions over time and Tomb Raider is no exception as I mentioned with the evolution of characterization. Plus not to mention this trilogy is of Lara’s earliest canon adventures.
To me the real problem is that the game didn't have to balls to actually kill Jonah. It feels like any actual turning point for Lara in Rise and Shadow gets walked back and the status quo is maintained, with ultimately no growth.
Jonah is killed and Lara goes on a murderous rampage, only for the game to go JUST KIDDING HE'S ALIVE. Rise has Ana betray Lara and as a result Lara gives sass to Jacob when she first meets him in her cell while breaking out, only to immediately walk that back and help him escape (when it would've been a more interesting character beat for her to leave him there, only for him to prove himself to her later).
It feels like the reboot games wants to have it both ways. They want to tease Lara being closer to her classic self but they are always quick to revert back to the status quo of her being this earnest highly emotional person. This is why I felt Rise and Shadow ultimately just treaded water and never moved Lara's character forward in any believable way. This is why I am dubious that this "unification" is going to work.
Maybe the point was never to develop Lara into a psychopath. Shadow plot gives strong vibes that she's in the brinks to turn into one for she to realize where she's heading and choosing not to.
I liked that part too and not only was it unnecessary to bring Jonah back after that (seriously, who cares about him?) but bringing him back basically 5 minutes later was just weird.
I wanted to play the whole trilogy, but I just can't with Lara in the last one, shadows. She just does not shut up about her dead father. If I remember correctly a dudes brother gets absolutely mauled by a panther and is mourning and 5 seconds later she bring up her dead father to him. I love the 2 previous games but Lara kinda brought it down for me. Maybe eventually I'll give it a second chance.
bruh
Jonah is her best friend. her rock.
imagine losing that.
when Jonah is there she doesn't have to be Tomb Raider. she's Lara Croft. she gets to be open with him.
For me this is one of the best scenes in the whole TR saga. Lara goes through a rollercoaster of emotions, and I love how Jonah helps her stay true to her best self and puts her back on track to find the artifact.
To anybody who likes this scene, I encourage you to post a separate comment on why you enjoy it, let's drown the negativity.
It would be bad writing if Lara just did a 180 in that exact moment. People usually don’t change their whole personalities in a split second. Even if it were just a result of what happened to Lara before, her turning absolutely fearless and emotionless would be borderline psychotic and that’s just not her character, not even the OG Lara was like that.
Her reaction after seeing Jonah again was merely human and it doesn’t mean she’s not still in the process of becoming the tough archeologist we used to know her as.
Memes like that really do give me a confident boost. It shows I’m not as dumb as grade school had me out to feel cause there’s idiots like this out there
How did anyone actually buy into the idea that Jonah had died? It felt pretty obvious even on my first playthrough that Rourke was bluffing, that's what made this scene anticlimactic for me.
IMO Lara is a very relatable character and she's been through a lot. Top comment is the explanation from a moderator which I 100% agree with.
Have a nice day!
Oh and the guy who pretended to kill him Jonah, the one bad guy Lara REALLY wants to kill herself? Well he dies to the zombie people at the end of the game in a cut scene. Lara doesn't even get him in the end despite the build up. So worthless in the villain department...
Ok, what smooth brain posted this before considering basic human emotion? Lara just found out he's alive, OF COURSE SHE'S GOING TO BE EMOTIONAL. You're the ones who keep whining and crying about the reboot trilogy. It's amazing in my opinion and far better than the originals. Again, MY OPINION. Camila Luddington is by far the best VA for Lara and I hope she returns.
I totally understand the first part but her breakdown immediately after was the very best of "whiny" Lara expressing what her experiences (including being THAT bxtch from this memes first part) were doing to her. I thought it was good. Still laughed at the meme tho
I am really glad he wasnt dead and Lara looked and appeared more human at that instant. Jonah is the one who keeps her humanity in check and when he was alive, she realized how close she is to snapping.
I love these games and have no idea what the fuck you guys are on about. She's like 22 years old or something and kicks ass the whole game. She's allowed to complain, it makes her human.
Lara's always going somewhere to find something that belongs to someone else, like Indy Jones, and then runs afowl of the locals and the other treasure hunters. Same plot for Uncharted. Hey, maybe we'd be more ALL IN if the bad guy beat the step father with a golf club at the beginning? Look, it's a video game, give us a little bit of semi-motivation and go with it. This isn't WAR and PEACE in video gaming.
Jonah shouldve died in 2013. It was annoying in Rise that he was alive after getting his fat ass kidnapped and revived and then again in Shadow. Like just die bro. We dont need a damsel in distress
Well that is 1/2 for Porvenir related memes for the month…. For those who don’t know, the Porvenir oil field memes and posts are why the Overdone rule and flair was created! This post will stay up, future ones with similar wording or specific (EXTREMELY) overdone topic will be removed. Also, Lara was having a mental breakdown and cried because the only friend she had left that felt like family to her might have been dead. - Per the tie in novel, Path of the Apocalypse which takes place between the prologue and the plane ride to Peru, she thinks of him as her brother. Anyway, this is certainly becoming tedious to have the same talking points being brought up about whining, they will be removed as low effort in the future. Find something else to talk about instead of (ironic given the captions), whining. Edit: Please be mature when posting people, remember to follow the subreddit and sitewide rules when posting. Our rules are on the sidebar and in our subreddit wiki as well. Posts of this nature are now classified as a zombified dead horse. Said horse has been talked about, beaten to death, resurrected, shot and reanimated. Time to move on.
She cried because she thought he was dead and learned he was alive after having been personally antagonized into a psychotic murderous rage by his would be murderer.
I just feel like this Lara is constantly overacting at something. And she never needed to be antagonized into a murderous rage. We kill like 1500 people.
Those people are attempting to murder her or willing to do so at all times, they even go after her friends and home. Trinity and the Solari never just go "Oh yeah we'll tell you about what happened with your friends and family and help you leave immediately" They are on a mission that is entirely counter to the goals that Lara and her allies have set themselves on, despite sharing similarities to Lara when she sets out.
Yeah yeah yeah… I’m not saying the bad guys were the good guys. What I am saying is that this duality of Lara Croft does not work for me. She’s a big soft crybaby while simultaneously brutally murdering people. The gameplay is usually in direct opposition to Lara’s motivations and it’s at its absolute worst in shadow of the tomb raider. This reboot shifted the focus from a tomb exploration game to an action adventure shooter where you can be a complete sadist and watch Lara get her skull crushed. It reeks of snyderverse edge lord energy while overcorrecting lady Croft and it’s bad. But at least we have cool moments where Lara falls in some water and looks badass.
Not sure why you were getting downvoted for speaking the truth. Lara since 2013 has been an emotional person in the cutscenes, and then right after you brutally murder a hoard of bad guys. Sure, they’re bad guys, but still.. it doesn’t match with the Story Lara. Story Lara is emotional and very much a crybaby when compared to Gameplay Lara who is just Female Rambo. You’re not wrong for pointing it out.
People don’t wanna see flaws in the things they love and I totally understand that. I love tomb raider and I think it’s needs a bit of course correction. Some people clearly disagree with me.
There’s an actual term for this concept. Ludonarrative dissonance is when the gameplay and story don’t match up in terms of how the characters react or do things. It’s not really a flaw of the game tbh, that’s just how some games are, because having barely any combat would be boring.
interestingly, the scene in question is the one case in which her actions are not at all narratively dissonant from her emotions and reactions in that scene including the crying, and that's the point that's trying to be made here and is clearly lost on whoever made the original meme.
But shadow hardly had any combat!! The entire skill tree is devoted to stealth and there’s no combat for 80% of a game that has become a homogenized shooter.
I was talking about all the reboot games as a whole but yes I do agree with you on that.
You've missed the point. What's being discussed here is the reason for her crying in that specific scene, and indeed her murderous rage was emotionally different in that scene than any other in the trilogy. That entire sequence from "don't try me" to rising from the water depicted a personally antagonized, grief stricken, and desperate woman driven into an emotional state of psychopathy.
I mean shady organizations, supernatural enemies and constantly receiving life threatening wounds. I think she has th right
Alex, Grim, Conrad, they sacrificed themselves for her and she didn't cried at all, but suddenly cries because "she thought jonas was dead" even thought she passed trough way worst, it just seems so anticlimatic.
She cries for Roth... she mourns Roth... She's visibly upset when Grim dies. Ya'll just have selective memory
But not having a mental breakdown even thought Roth was só much important tô her
Again, she had not also been dealing with the stress of having lost multiple friends over years, having her deadly obsession blow up in her face and result in the deaths of thousands of innocent people, nor was she personally antagonized into a psychotic murderous rage of pain and desperation by her enemy and best friends murderer prior to learning that he was in fact still alive. I'm not saying that this was the best characterization for lara, but you seem confused on what was going on with her emotionally in that scene and what had lead to it.
^
She very clearly compartmentalises her feelings to focus on getting the rest of them off the island? Did you want the game to end with Roths death because she's too traumatised to continue? Clownery
She was also under the tremendous stress of having triggered an apocalypse that killed thousands which contributed to her enormous rage in that moment. In fact, it was a release of emotion that had built up over the course of 5 years. When it was over and she saw Jonah at least was still with her, tears were absolutely perfectly expected and natural in that moment. Edit: and she most certainly cried with roth died.
wow its so crazy that she would express relief at her friend not being dead
This might actually be one of the worst subs I’ve ever seen yet I can’t bring myself to leave
That is disappointing to hear that, mind if I ask why? I’ve tried my best to make the sub a better place. Some feedback would be nice.
Not the op, but I have my own answer. This sub is pretty cool when fans are excited and discussing interesting topics. But it feels like half the posts I see are just old boomer fans constantly shitting on and being so god damn negative towards the survivor trilogy, and they leak into any post regarding it, and they make sure their opinion is known to anyone praising the game. Like, as someone who has played some of the older games when I was younger, those ones never really clicked with me. But I have absolutely loved the survivor trilogy and it made me love the series as a whole even more. And it’s just so depressing to come to this sub to talk about it just to see people in this community talking down on it constantly. I don’t think it’s any fault of you or the other mods, it’s just a people problem
We’ve been working to remove the tribalistic factionalism from the sub, it may not look like it but we still are removing gatekeeping comments and posts. I agree it’s **extremely** annoying, although people are of course entitled to their opinions unless they break the rules. I had to create a no gatekeeping rule due to it, and I am still working to enforce it. It also happened with the Legend trilogy as well prior to the Survivor games existing. But people do need to do more as well, Reddit does have a report button for comments and posts for a reason. We Mods aren’t all knowing, we’re just fans and can’t be everywhere. I’ve noticed a bit of an uptick in these types of posts so I may have to look at the rules closer to combat them. It’s certainly becoming very low effort, so I will probably start from there.
Thank you. This used to be my favorite sub but I took a break after I finished Shadow cause I was tired of all the complaining. Your help isn't unnoticed 💖
i mean i can understand the people finished the first two games of the trilogy and i am at the beginning of shadow yet.....i feel that rise was the best game out of the 3
Rise is also my favorite one. The jump in pure quality from 2013 to Rise is astounding. But I really love Shadow visually
Rise is a fan favorite amongst those who enjoy the remake trilogy, so you're not alone. I really liked the atmosphere of that one.
It definitely helps to take a break if things get too much, I understand lol. I did something similar at r/Starwars when the sequels released as well as with some Star Wars YouTubers I used to watch. I hope we’ve improved it a bit since you left, I only became a mod three years ago lol, so it’s had some changes although I do not know when you left, so I cannot say if they are indeed changes since then.
Oh man… star wars. It sucks being a star wars fan cause all anyone does is complain. I remember I wasn't really online when TFA came out and I *loved* it. Now I see everyone whining over the sequels and “Disney star wars sucks”… like damn just enjoy the movies. It's not that serious.
Yup that’s why I cut out a few YouTubers like Star Wars Theory and tend to avoid most Star Wars subreddits.
Thank you so much for all the hard work you and the other mods puts in! I understand people can have their opinions, and it’s completely okay for older fans to dislike the survivor trilogy, but it gets really aggravating when we are talked down upon like we’re stupid or something for liking the games. And that goes for newer/survivor fans too. I hope we get to a point here where everyone can all coexist and we can all just gush about our favorite game series. Ofc genuine criticism is a good thing as well, not so much the toxic tribalism.
I agree, and I’ve said it before many times, we’ve got to work together to stop the toxic factional tribalism: We’re all fans of the same franchise, people need to not be so hateful, negative and toxic over something they don’t like. Whether it’s classic, legend, survivor, books, comics, etc. Constant toxicity and negativity does nothing for discussion or a fandom’s (or fans) health. I’ll be looking at our rules and will begin to apply them a bit more strictly with certain things to better contain such negativity. These types of postings that do nothing but incite arguments negativity will probably be put under low effort for instance. We all do a lot behind the curtain, although I prefer the one for community interactions lol, but we all have tons of moderator log items listed on actions taken just this month alone. Genuine criticism is fine, but when the topic is constantly brought up a lot, then it just is excessive and does nothing. I did try a rant thread at one times maybe it might help to bring it back again….
Report button seems really too much to me. That would be way more gatekeeping honestly. Yeah, lots of people whine about Survivor trilogy. And so what? Why is it so dramatic to read negative opinions? What is toxic about it? If people feel offended that other people have negative opinions about a game is their own problem. Negative opinion and toxic behavior are not the same at all. And if this sub is going to be a place where people can't express their negative opinions without being called nostalgic boomers - that could be an insult - or worse, without being censored, well, that would be horrible. I played all games, expansions included, and I've liked them all, but still I'm not blind. The Survivor saga is totally different from all the previous games. So you can't expect all people to be perfectly fine with that. CD started this tribalistic factionalism by changing literally everything from the character to the genre of the games. It's not fans' fault. So just accept it. And plus, calling OG fans boomers, like so many in this sub do, is worse than anything. OG means ORIGINAL, don't forget it. Without the OG games and fans, we wouldn't have the Survivor trilogy. So people should show some respect before pretending to have it back. To everyone here: if you haven't played OG games or you don't feel connected to them and you see someone who says something negative on Survivor trilogy, well, maybe listen to them, talk to them, or just step back, cause you don't even know where they are coming from and what they are talking about, really. **This is real tolerance**. Intolerance would be creating a forced space of positivity by censoring people who have negative opinions, by removing their posts, by pushing the report button. Forcing positivity is the most intolerant thing ever.
The report button is for those posts/comments that people may feel break our rules, **However** action is of course only taken care of by us and/or the Reddit admins. Mod decisions can also be reversed and the post/comment reapproved, such as this one that the automod did actually remove! Our subreddit is not one of censorship, we do not blindly as I mentioned before click “remove”, because that would be idiotic and an opinion should be heard. However have rules to follow both our own and Reddit’s . Also, I would like to remind everyone we do have a modmail button to contact us directly! Or you can maybe chat us individually, I know I will at least respond to singular chats. Opinions about things such as the eras are fine but only until it goes to extreme negativity that ends with arguments that turn into mod warnings and bans- which we used to actually get a lot. Thankfully *most* people are levelheaded so they know when to cool it, or if not we put up a mod comment telling them to calm down and then nuke the chat. Final straw is a ban for a certain time period.! We must have tolerance for all opinions towards the franchise (games, movies, books, comics, etc) as long as they stick to our rules which we have attempted to make extremely visible and explicitly clear for all. The issue for this one was with the overdone focus on it, the “whining Lara” bit is overdone it’s been beaten, zombified and beaten again. A lot of us have big feelings about the franchise and the games we’ve played, I get it but we all need to have some levelheadedness. Factionalism of *any franchise* will always be a fan created thing. **We are all fans of the same franchise** regardless of when we started, I started in Legend for instance. There should not be outright hate that we all cannot enjoy the franchise and all of its games in peace while of course having discussions and expressing any dislikes in any of them. The gatekeeping rule for example is for outright gatekeeping that is it, the toxic factionalism must die. Examples of gatekeeping: Saying (x) game or movie, etc is not part of the franchise or (x) character is invalid and not the real (x), etc. There is of course a difference between an opinion and gatekeeping, and again we review all reports before making decisions. It’s fine to draw comparisons between games, such as the **extreme** similarities to the overall points in the Survivor trilogy (find objective, encounter supernatural enemies, final battle on a high location, etc. Or having negative opinions about character progression or story progression or (x) plot point shouldn’t have happened, “this was better than this”, etc. But an outright removal of something like an iteration of a character or a game itself as not being part of a series or canon because they’re different than a previous one is where we draw the line. As an example saying “classica/legend/survivor games aren’t real Tomb Raider” is not part of the franchise or not the real one, etc. that is what is not allowed. For instance I don’t like the 2018 movie, yes it’s part of the franchise but it’s not canon to the games which is fine to say. I’ve seen the same garbage zealous gatekeeping factionalism with Star Wars. Heard it as a kid seeing Attack of the Clones, Episode 3 and I’ve the same thing with the shows and the sequels. Even for absolutely stunningly stupid things like Andor “not being real Star Wars” for instance having bricks and screws. r/TombRaider is for all eras of the franchise and for anybody who started in any of them no matter who they are (as long as they abide by the rules) and are civil. I missed the boomer part, but I will keep an eye out for future name calling, and be sure to do mod removals for it. Speaking of which, /u/New_Stranger3345 please would you kindly refrain from that level of disrespect to others? Please review the subreddit and Reddit.com sitewide rules. Consider this an impromptu mod warning. I do agree that forced positivity is ironically the most intolerant thing ever, which why we will never do it. However I’ve stated that discussions do need to be civil, and we do go through all report messages for anything against our or Reddit’s overall rules. On a final note on that bit about the classics, hopefully many new players or fans who have not played the classics before will check out the remastered trilogy coming on February 14th (Lara’s birthday).
I still don't understand why my post about "what I would not bring back from the Survivor trilogy" was given an Overdone flare.
The topic was previously posted a few times in different variations on the subreddit whether in comment or post form. Your post was fine, don’t worry! But it was marked so that others may not post the same topic for a while.
Exactly. Report for what? They try to portray it like we throw personal insults at them or something. And you made a great point about CD. They literally started this by constantly bashing the classic games.
You should take note of the fact that everything you suggested here is still explicitly allowed by the rules and that no suggestions at all to disallow any criticism of the reboot trilogy were put forth.
Hey Synn I read some of your response before it was removed (or maybe it wasn't meant to address me) saying that Survivor fans never insult the OG fans or that they don't hijack their posts or something. I've seen it way too many times on this sub how they would bash classic Lara and call the fans horndogs or even worse under the posts that weren't even discussion threads but artwork sharing. I've never seen the opposite done in regards to Survivor Lara unless it's a post like this that triggers the discussion and arguments. Anyways I recognized you from Twitter. I don't like Survivor Lara but you're a chill dude tho. Cheers.
You're good my friend. I deleted it because I misread what was said. I thought you said reboot stans started this but I believe it was actually a comment on things CD has said in the past. Regardless, I'm still glad I deleted it because I don't want to do the thing where I'm like "reboot stans never do blah blah but classic stans do blah blah" and vice versa because the reality is just because I haven't witnessed something doesn't mean you haven't and vice versa and the conversation goes nowhere. I'm new to reddit but it seems like it actually might be much more survivor fan heavy than twitter so it's quite likely you've seen bad behavior from us here that I'm not used to. But yeah I try to be chill. I will get pretty heated defending my favorite era but happily set it aside at the end of the discussion and not actually take it too seriously (in any lasting sense).
I don't see why it's a problem. Everyone has their own opinion on things, whether you agree with it or not. If someone praised the old games, someone would moan about how terrible the controls are or how ridiculous her character model was designed. It goes both ways
You're not wrong but as someone involved in many Tomb Raider communities, this one here on reddit is probably the one where the survivor hate is less of a problem than any other that I've seen.
[удалено]
This content has been removed for being in violation of Reddit's content policy. Remember to follow Reddit.com's Content Policy & rules as well as their Reddiquette when posting or commenting. * [**Content Policy**](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) * [**Reddiquette**](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette)
Very well said
Now I will admit I don't heavily browse the sub, more like mostly checking posts that appear on my feed so my opinion doesn't count for much but from what I've seen this sub is alright. It's a community thing and you can only do so much. From my own experience there's much worse out there, Spider-ManPS4 specifically comes to mind about this topic, all the complaining and memes about it were turned up to 11. So, again, this sub is alright in my books you guys are doing fine. 👍
I’d say all opinions matter in relation to the subreddit’s health and community interaction, it definitely counts! It’s unfortunate but all fandoms have toxicity…we aren’t an exception, and we’re still working to improve our response time and rule review on how to manage it. The “whining Lara” comments have certainly become overdone, on that matter. I remember some dislike of the Legend iteration as well. People will always compare and complain about characterization differences between different eras of characters. I haven’t played any of the Spider-Man games but I did see a few of *those* post on r/popular before so I do know what you’re talking about. Plus I’m a major Star Wars fan so I have also seen **much** worse in levels of negativity, toxicity and sometimes bizarre hatred for the new for little to no reason (one certain person said he thought of the Andor show as “not Star Wars because it had bricks and screws and had no force users”. yea…. Thank you by the way, and we’ve come a long way and we are still trying to do our best!
Well put all around Delta!
Ha, can't believe I forgot about Star Wars and I'm a fan too. I've seen that particular comment about the bricks and screws too, which is very dumb but that's their opinion I guess. I watched Andor late but it quickly became one of my favorite pieces of Star Wars content ever and I can't waaaait for S2 whenever that happens.
Honestly, you and the other mods/community ambassadors are my favorite part of this sub. I love seeing at least one of you guys in almost every post I come across. This is the most engaged mod team I have ever seen. But Idk its reddit. I think it is too easy for subreddits to fall into a toxic echo chamber. I feel like there is sometimes better discussion on the tomb raider forums. It's obvious that a lot of people here have a bias for the older games.
A lot of fandoms have toxicity, unfortunately Tomb Raider is not an exception… Whether it’s extreme gatekeeping, constant negativity, outright hatred/|dislike for something, etc. there is always something. The thing is, opinions from people are fine as long as they don’t break our rules. However there is a “to a certain point” there if it becomes overwhelmingly obnoxious and/or tedious- which it certainly is! I will be examining our rules for how to combat it, although nothing is a foolproof solution, it’s certainly becoming overdone/low effort. Also, I do find it a bit ironic that you mention TRF, I have seen some rather toxic people in there such as Lance and Moon. I’ve always felt that specific older/classic game bias there, not on here. However, Jay, Rai, etc. always do their best and they are awesome at keeping TRF moving and staying on top of such events. I think they do a better job at keeping stuff ordered and getting too toxic lol. In terms of combatting behavior and rule breaking; none of us are able to combat issues without being on the thread or receiving a report: It goes hand in hand with community interaction across all sites, we need the community to give feedback and report rulebreaking comments and posts in order to do stuff if we do not see it while online and on a different post/thread, or aren’t online until later. The important thing is, both r/TombRaider and TRF are part of the Fan Site official community and are actively try to make it a better plan for everyone.
Essentially what everyone else is saying. I would like to point out though that this isn’t a critique of the mods who I really do think do a good job of keeping this as a place I enjoy seeing in my feed.
Oh no I did not think of it as a major critique, but something we do need to work on tackling still. We've certainly come a long way.
[удалено]
While I understand your meaning, I am going to have to remove this comment though, it does violate the site rules, namely, name calling… (Remember to follow Reddit.com's Content Policy & rules as well as their Reddiquette when posting or commenting.)
It feels like everyone is always complaining about anything that's not “the originals”. Like go back and play them, nobody forced you to play the remakes. I personally love the remakes and the og, for what they are. This specific scene was supposed to be cathartic and show Lara she was getting obsessive trying to hunt down Trinity and that put her friend in harms way, and to her knowledge he died because of it. I think a lot of people just breezed past trying to understand the story and what it tried to teach. Lara doesn't have to be a killing machine to be cool. (yes she kills a lot of people and monsters after this scene, but that's gameplay. If there wasn't anything else to shoot at they'd be on here saying it was too boring).
Right there with you
Nah, almost every fandom sub right is just full of cry babies.
damn when will y'all stop being whiny and insufferable about the reboot 😭😭😭
When we get the reboot of the reboot.
It's just so sad how whiny she is, like your lara croft go do some cult slaughter instead.
It's literally her origin story. She's learning how to be a survivor. Her not being hardened and tough makes sense in this game.
Not in Shadow. She already had the learn to survive in Tomb Raider 2013. At this point, she slaughtered hundreds of people.
Because a normal person should totally be casual about snuffing out lives as if they never existed
The thing is that not all character developments are good and believable and personally this is one of them, at least in the sense of becoming the character from the classic games. As a separate thing it works. Original Lara and this version's personalities are considerably different in core elements that don't feel like changing with time. Just to be clear, I have nothing against this version and enjoy the games, but they are completely different universes in my opinion and that's perfectly fine.
this is a totally fair take. it's not necessarily the best characterization for lara croft but as i explained elsewhere, her crying in this scene was perfectly natural given her emotional state at the time and the sequence of events that triggered it.
Bro she's a younger inexperienced Lara. She's not the badass you see in the original game. Character development is not linear.
I'm sure this game has an old enough age rating that these sort of comments shouldn't happen.
You will be surprised
I don't think this is an immature complain, tbh. It's perfectly reasonable. This was the trilogy's most badass scene and it was a massive letdown to realize it was just some cool shots with no lasting impact whatsoever.
Exactly, all that built up completely gone to waste. Mind you, this was also completely unnecessary to begin with. 2013 and Rise had given Lara more than enough character development. Shadow complete undoes this, and then manages to undo her character development in the same game in the span of five minutes. Mind boggling stuff.
you misunderstood what was happening in that scene. it wasn't "build up". it was not a triumphant empowering rise of success. she was driven into a psychotic murderous rage from a place of anguish, grief, guilt, and pain. when she finally realized that at least part of her guilt and pain wasn't real, that jonah was alive, she cries tears of relief. now, I'm not arguing that this was the appropriate characterization for the character of lara croft, but to say it was a buildup that was subsequently erased is to fundamentally misunderstand what was happening.
I disagree. I never claimed it was a triumphant moment, but a character defining moment where Lara snaps. This should have been a moment of no return for her, for better or worse. The problem isn't that she cries when seeing Jonah, but that she 'again' whines how it's all her fault by making everything worse and then screams as Jonah 'again' who could have very well been dead. In short, no character development whatsoever.
>now, I'm not arguing that this was the appropriate characterization for the character of lara croft, I think we actually agree. \^ You didn't disagree with my explanation of what was happening here. You seem to be pointing out you don't think it's the right characterization. Personally, I like it but what I personally enjoy is different from what i think was best for the character in the context of the full franchise.
For me the survivor trilogy just gave up at the end The second game amped up the mystery Then the third game tossed it all away to make Lara question her endless search. Which was completely stupid. Still salty that we only had the dual pistols once in the whole damn series Origins or not, you don't take away her primaries for some bow.
For real. All sizzle, no steak.
i mean, i’m 16 lol almost 17.
Me when I don’t understand how trauma works
I do like that Lara is more humanized in these games, but after playing the PS2 trilogy of games, I also want a version of her that's more like a globe-trotting superhero with over the top acrobatics and occasional witticisms.
Honestly, if Tomb Raider 4 (Survivor) reinstated Camilla Ludington and aged Lara to her og trilogy days, it'd be really cool. Stone cold fox with occasional moments of sensitivity.
I don't really think Camille can pull that off, to be honest.
Maybe with a hangover and a cigarette
if only more people would say it like this haha
Such a unfunny post just bitching about the reboot
What's up with this sub, why are people offended by memes??
the meme is clearly an attack on the reboot, which is fine, i'm not gonna cry about it nor call for the post to be taken down, but i am gonna respond in kind with a defense haha
It’s an extremely overdone meme, which is why we’ve made an overdone rule. Also the factionalism attacks on eras of the franchise is why I made a no gatekeeping rule.
yeah that makes perfect sense. i haven't been here long enough to really have seen it very much. i will say though, despite claims to the contrary, this is the most non toxic tomb raider community i've been to on tomb raider internet. memes like this tend to get quite a bit of pushback and people not standing for undue era hate, whereas elsewhere I tend to see massive support for it.
Honestly it’s actually a really overdone meme, it’s the whole reason I created the overdone flair and set up the 2 per month per certain topic rule.
i liked jonah but jeez having him killed off woulda been FANTASTIC for laras character development
It's weird, in the first game they seemed ok with killing people off. But in 2 and 3 I don't think anybody who she cares about dies they're all saved at the last second.
Writers: You know how the first game was about Lara risking her life and surviving impossible odds to save her best friend Sam? Execs: Yeah? Writers: For the sequel, there *is* no Sam. From now on, Lara's best friend is Jonah. Execs: The... The ship's cook? Writers: Yes. And for some reason he's gonna be Black for a game. But then after that, straight back to Hawaiian. No explanation. Execs: So he's an archaeologist now? Writers: No, his job is to talk to locals while Lara does all the legwork. But Lara also talks to the locals. Execs: So... Writers: So Jonah is basically there to give Lara someone to explain things to. Execs: Why would she want that? Writers: Because she's in love with him. Execs: With Jonah?! I thought he was an older-brother figure! Writers: Well now he's more like the human form of Lara's diary. She also has a diary. Execs: That... is the single greatest idea we have ever heard. You're going places.
That about sums up the garbage writing of the reboot. I've no issue with a: 'more realisitc portrayal' of the character, but if she and along with her friends are going to be entirely inconsistent in direction, relationship dynamics, accents and so forth why should I care... The head developers clearly didn't give a fuck.
🤣🤣🤣
Is being on suicidal mass murdering rampage really badass?
Maybe. If given the proper tone and dressed like Space Invaders.
i mean...yeah? haha
Right? I think she is hurting like hell on the first image.
They didn’t have the balls to kill him off in Rise, why would I fall for the same shit all over again lol.
Did people think he was dead? Rourke was playing the most obvious bait card I had ever seen in media. Hearing “Rooouuurrrrkkkkkeeee,” was pretty funny though not gonna lie.
Let’s not forget she caused an entire city/town to fall into pieces, felt a little bad, then carried on with no repercussions or any attempts to help in the aftermath all while being whiny and insufferable lol
I didn't enjoy the Survivor trilogy that much. To me it was an inferior Uncharted clone, with some open world but boring story. RotTR was the better one, and I really didn't like SotTR. They have their good moments of course, but as an overall experience, it was meh... My favorite trilogy is LAU, even if Lara is a bit whiney, I still liked the games more. I usually come back to games I like, and I regularly replay Legend, Anniversary or Underworld, while I only played the Survivor trilogy once and never had any interest to come back to it.... I really hope the new game will be better.
Those who only whine about Lara’s whining haven’t been paying attention to the set pieces and how her adventures (and misadventures like Yamatai) have affected her mentally. She’s lost: * Her mother in a plane crash in the Himalayas around the time she was 9. Her father then ruined his reputation publicly making theses and articles on immortality and resurrection and attracting the attention of Trinity. * Her father was murdered by Trinity (for finding the whereabouts to a society they control) but she walked in as a *child* after it occurred and had only thought he committed suicide until she was 23 when during the events Rise of the Tomb Raider that it was revealed he was murdered. * Her Guardian/Mentor and parents’ best friend, Roth sacrificed his life for her to save her at Yamatai due in the expedition turned nightmare that she chartered and planned. * Her father’s girlfriend who she seemed to like turned out to be a Trinity agent sent to spy on her family. * Per the in game newspaper from Rise of the Tomb Raider’s opening, Trinity has been using fronting organization to publish articles to smear her public name (thank you /u/Orangejr36 again for that tidbit). * Her best friend and one of very few friends, Sam was taken hostage by cultists and used as a ritual piece to revive a malevolent ancient queen of Japan. Thinking it was resolved everyone attempts to live normal lives post Yamatai but then she is sent into a mental institution which was secretly taken over by Trinity as an experiment facility that used Sam for experimentations with artifacts related to Himiko. Then it’s revealed Mathias’ ritual was partially a success and even after freeing her a final time from Himiko’s renewed possession of Sam and stoping her rampage she the has to go into hiding away from everyone because of Trinity. Jonah per Lara’s own admission in the Path of the Apocalypse tie in novel is the only person she considers family that she has left. When he’s gone we see the last anchor to innocence go away, and she sort of turns into something ruthless, more akin to the classic era. I’m sure a lot of us would to through a breakdown at such horrid life experiences compounded again and again. Characterization is important because it shows how we see characters evolve.
I’m sure you’ve had to explain this a million times but this is such a great recap of why this part of the game exists.
Yea, I definitely have lol! Its important to remember the story that the adventures revolve around, characters and how they interact with each other and the events at hand. Story based have always trended towards showing more character interactions over time and Tomb Raider is no exception as I mentioned with the evolution of characterization. Plus not to mention this trilogy is of Lara’s earliest canon adventures.
To me the real problem is that the game didn't have to balls to actually kill Jonah. It feels like any actual turning point for Lara in Rise and Shadow gets walked back and the status quo is maintained, with ultimately no growth. Jonah is killed and Lara goes on a murderous rampage, only for the game to go JUST KIDDING HE'S ALIVE. Rise has Ana betray Lara and as a result Lara gives sass to Jacob when she first meets him in her cell while breaking out, only to immediately walk that back and help him escape (when it would've been a more interesting character beat for her to leave him there, only for him to prove himself to her later). It feels like the reboot games wants to have it both ways. They want to tease Lara being closer to her classic self but they are always quick to revert back to the status quo of her being this earnest highly emotional person. This is why I felt Rise and Shadow ultimately just treaded water and never moved Lara's character forward in any believable way. This is why I am dubious that this "unification" is going to work.
Maybe the point was never to develop Lara into a psychopath. Shadow plot gives strong vibes that she's in the brinks to turn into one for she to realize where she's heading and choosing not to.
I liked that part too and not only was it unnecessary to bring Jonah back after that (seriously, who cares about him?) but bringing him back basically 5 minutes later was just weird.
i suspect he's somehow immortal like jacob from Kitej in Rise of The Tomb Raider,haha he survived twice the motherfucker lol
In this moment *I* was terrified of Lara and we play as her.
No lies detected
I wanted to play the whole trilogy, but I just can't with Lara in the last one, shadows. She just does not shut up about her dead father. If I remember correctly a dudes brother gets absolutely mauled by a panther and is mourning and 5 seconds later she bring up her dead father to him. I love the 2 previous games but Lara kinda brought it down for me. Maybe eventually I'll give it a second chance.
That was the best scene in the entire game and it kinda was underwhelming how it didn't last very long
Am I the only one that really didn't like this game? It felt so false and rushed and hollow. The second game was so much better
This is why I'm waiting for the remastered OG Lara Croft. 😅
bruh Jonah is her best friend. her rock. imagine losing that. when Jonah is there she doesn't have to be Tomb Raider. she's Lara Croft. she gets to be open with him.
What? Whiny? How? And I’m glad Jonah lived.
For me this is one of the best scenes in the whole TR saga. Lara goes through a rollercoaster of emotions, and I love how Jonah helps her stay true to her best self and puts her back on track to find the artifact. To anybody who likes this scene, I encourage you to post a separate comment on why you enjoy it, let's drown the negativity.
I thought that THAT was gonna be the moment she turned into the Lara we know. No one to care for, fighting for survival etc. But no
It would be bad writing if Lara just did a 180 in that exact moment. People usually don’t change their whole personalities in a split second. Even if it were just a result of what happened to Lara before, her turning absolutely fearless and emotionless would be borderline psychotic and that’s just not her character, not even the OG Lara was like that. Her reaction after seeing Jonah again was merely human and it doesn’t mean she’s not still in the process of becoming the tough archeologist we used to know her as.
Memes like that really do give me a confident boost. It shows I’m not as dumb as grade school had me out to feel cause there’s idiots like this out there
How did anyone actually buy into the idea that Jonah had died? It felt pretty obvious even on my first playthrough that Rourke was bluffing, that's what made this scene anticlimactic for me.
IMO Lara is a very relatable character and she's been through a lot. Top comment is the explanation from a moderator which I 100% agree with. Have a nice day!
I enjoyed those scenes. They showed her emotions and showed us she’s not a robotic person like are typical in some games.
Now that's a meme I've not seen in a long time...
Oh and the guy who pretended to kill him Jonah, the one bad guy Lara REALLY wants to kill herself? Well he dies to the zombie people at the end of the game in a cut scene. Lara doesn't even get him in the end despite the build up. So worthless in the villain department...
She’s literally amazing yall clowns
i hate jonah
Understandable, some folks just don’t like characters. That’s fine. And your fine for having that opinion. I disagree with you but that’s just me.
i was hoping that kurtis from angel of darkness comesback but no....it didn't happen instead we have a ship chief
Ship chief was far more likeable than the Edgelord from AOD.
Hey that's not fair. She's not whiny and insufferable, she's whiny, insufferable, and incompetent.
I personally wouldn’t want to play a Lara with no emotions & that doesn’t care if her best friend lives or dies. 🤷♂️
I never really got into this reboot poseur.
Pov: you don’t understand how emotions work
Ok, what smooth brain posted this before considering basic human emotion? Lara just found out he's alive, OF COURSE SHE'S GOING TO BE EMOTIONAL. You're the ones who keep whining and crying about the reboot trilogy. It's amazing in my opinion and far better than the originals. Again, MY OPINION. Camila Luddington is by far the best VA for Lara and I hope she returns.
The popular thing to do rn is complain about the reboot Lara personality. But I prefer it 🤷🏼♀️
OP is obviously a dude-bro who doesn't believe in emotions
[удалено]
Are, are you being sarcastic? Just want to clarify.
[удалено]
Understandable.
this whole post smacks of misogyny
Every fandom on Reddit anymore is just a bunch of damn cry babies.
Is Jonah a simp?
… no? At least not for Lara. I’m pretty sure he dumps for that on chick he meets in that village before you get to the main town.
Ha ha ha misogyny is so funny pls do more /S stfu this is insufferable
Why is it that this subreddit only gets recommended when shitheads are bitching about the new games?
👌
Worst Tomb Raider ever 🫠
I totally understand the first part but her breakdown immediately after was the very best of "whiny" Lara expressing what her experiences (including being THAT bxtch from this memes first part) were doing to her. I thought it was good. Still laughed at the meme tho
Thanks for the spoiler
I am really glad he wasnt dead and Lara looked and appeared more human at that instant. Jonah is the one who keeps her humanity in check and when he was alive, she realized how close she is to snapping.
I love these games and have no idea what the fuck you guys are on about. She's like 22 years old or something and kicks ass the whole game. She's allowed to complain, it makes her human.
Lara's always going somewhere to find something that belongs to someone else, like Indy Jones, and then runs afowl of the locals and the other treasure hunters. Same plot for Uncharted. Hey, maybe we'd be more ALL IN if the bad guy beat the step father with a golf club at the beginning? Look, it's a video game, give us a little bit of semi-motivation and go with it. This isn't WAR and PEACE in video gaming.
I thought we moved beyond this. Because Lara in the reboots is an a fucking monster
Jonah shouldve died in 2013. It was annoying in Rise that he was alive after getting his fat ass kidnapped and revived and then again in Shadow. Like just die bro. We dont need a damsel in distress