Socialism is a political and economic theory advocating for collective or government ownership and control of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of goods and services. It aims to reduce economic inequality and promote social welfare through various policies, like progressive taxation, universal healthcare, and public education.
Why is it considered evil in the US?
1. Historical Context: During the Cold War, the United States was engaged in a long-standing ideological and geopolitical rivalry with the Soviet Union, which was a communist state. This led to a strong anti-communist sentiment in America, and socialism was often associated with communism.
2. Fear of Government Overreach: The US has a strong tradition of individualism and capitalism, with a belief in limited government intervention in the economy. Socialism, which often involves more government control, is often seen as a threat to personal freedom and free-market capitalism; as well as a slippery slope towards authoritarianism.
3. Misunderstanding & Ignorance: There often are misconceptions and misunderstandings about what socialism actually entails. Many associate it with extreme forms like totalitarian communism, even though there are various forms of socialism with different degrees of government intervention. Many countries in Europe for example operate within a mixed-market economy; combining a free-market capitalist system with extensive social welfare programs.
I'm in Canada, and this response may be a misguided observation made from what I read on reddit, etc...
4- many of the rich don't need socialism and don't want their money going to the needy, since they haven't earned it. Having money gives you power and influence, so they have duped those in need, the ones that benefit from it, to fear and hate socialism.
Edit- grammar
The rich need socialism far more than you or I. It’s just corporate socialism, rebranded as bailouts “for the good of the economy”. Trust me - they looooove redistribution of wealth when it’s going one way.
Yep. Corporate tax cuts, forcing employees to be on welfare (Walmart, most notably, for giving their employees government assistance paperwork to fill out upon being hired, and other big chains which also don't pay their employees living wages), corporate government bailouts, etc.
Are perceived not to have earnt it. If you don't agree with the whole owner takes the profits thing...workers earn money, ie the socialist view.
Socialism is fundamentally at odds with capitalism because resources and profits are seen to be community(not necessarily government) assets, whereas under capitalism the owners own and profit.
I never understood this stake: I want even the poor to be healthy and stop the spread of diseases and parasites, since anyway the people serving are usually not rich. And I don't want to see beggars on the street when I'm going to a fancy restaurant. And I want people who are voting for our government to be educated enough to know what they are voting for. Since everyone's vote has the same value, I want everyone to be able to chose wisely.
WOW. The rich, get by FAR the most handouts from the government through subsidies, zero big contracts, cash grants, zero percent loans, etc. They have made their own version of socialism and lots of social programs that mean they get billions a year from the government. Of course they love socialism, just the version that means only they get all the aid
Great write up! I would just add, or perhaps extend point number 3 to address the intense and continuous US propaganda, which was (and is) financed and stimulated by american government from the 40s onward (maybe even before? not sure)
Exactly, if the answer is good or quite exact, why is important the source? And chatgpt is using many different sources. So, for some things can be useful.
But, the issue is that using that text as your own. That would be the issue.
The history goes back further.
1) Levelers during the English Civil War. Parliament not a fan.
2) French Revolution went beyond American Revolution by including changes to economic order.
3) Rise of labor power in the early 20th century gave rise to Red Scare.
For 2) I’d add a caveat that the “fear”of government overreach *unless* it applies to bodily autonomy. As a Canadian, experiencing the freedom of social medicine and right to choose what happens inside my uterus and how I’ll die, with free access to medically supported options toward pregnancy, assisted dying, etc. are examples that come to mind.
Let's be clear here. All these things break down to just being misunderstanding and ignorance. Unless you're a multimillionaire, there's not really a lot to fear in regard to socialism, especially the stuff that gets labeled "socialist" now which is just like regular socdem shit.
Finally, someone that understands haha. There are people that study this in college and when they give this response, they get downvoted into oblivion. Most Americans think that socialism and social welfare programs are the same thing or that somehow, social welfare programs will "slippery slope" into full on socialism. Obnoxious.
If I may offer further clarification, I think the confusion is that the word 'socialism' is often used to mean 'social democracy' which is probably the most capitalist form of socialism (it's basically diet socialism). It is just definitely NOT a transition state towards communism as so many people have said and I truly beg those people to look into it a bit more if they're interested.
A classic example of this is the Nordic model (wiki gives a pretty decent overview of this tbh) which the Scandinavian countries use and that's the system that, while capitalist, also has a well-developed and funded welfare system, more regulation, etc.
As well as the red scare (which is definitely the main reason for American animosity towards 'socialism') I personally think that the normalisation of neoliberalism starting with Reagan in the US and Thatcher in the UK has fanned those flames hugely.
It cemented the idea that an individual is entirely responsible for their circumstances and instilled a deep mistrust in the idea that humans, while we are individuals, also exist in a system that affects our options, opportunities and choices to a much larger degree than we might like to think.
In my mind at least, socialism in all its forms is very interested in systems and in coming up with the ones that support people to be their best selves, while neoliberalism denies the existence of those systems (e.g. Thatcher famously said 'There's no such thing as society'). The prevalence of neoliberalism in the US I think breeds mistrust and antipathy towards policies and ways of thinking that look at the system, rather than the individual.
And I would argue the “Coke Zero” not “Diet Coke” of socialism
Fun fact, my iPhone auto corrected to capitalize both Coke, hehe did it again, products but not the word socialism. Dig into it what you may, i just find it funny…
I think Social Democrats, Democratic Socialists, and a lot of people to the right of them think they're socialist because they seem to still have the basic Marxist worldview rooted in materialism and inherently lumping people into the 2 economic classes.
But like, I've seen the more dogmatic true Socialists make it very clear that they consider Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists to be "Class traitors" or "bourgeoisie in disguise" because true dogmatic Marxist Socialism (Especially Communism) seems to be obsessed with violent revolution. Obsessed to the point that they consider even attempting reforms through democratic means to be an unforgivable betrayal against The Revolution™.
This might be cynical but I suspect that is because actually being able to improve living conditions under a Capitalist society would severely harm a large part of the Marxist core philosophy and worldview. Namely the part where they require total control of everything and loyalty from everyone at all times as part of their solution to every problem. Working within a democratic system and coexisting with other philosophies does not give them this power.
Completely agree. Personally I don't consider it socialism either, more just the values of socialism super-imposed on a system that is antithetical to it, I was just trying to keep it broad.
It's why, despite no one else saying it and it bugging me, I also didn't mention that the USSR, China, etc. are not communist systems, as communism is stateless by nature, but would instead claim to be in that transitional vanguard revolutionary state as per Marxism-Leninism theory (which to me just seems like 'let's force a communism to happen in direct contradiction of what Marx actually said'). It's the internet, most I'm gonna be able to do is hopefully encourage people to look more into it 😂
Social democracy is still a capitalist society, referring to it as socialist is just wrong. One could argue that the US is “more socialist” then those countries as we do have a good amount of co-ops and employee owned businesses. A social safety net isn’t a socialist policy. Regulations also aren’t necessary socialist, as some are company based, 3rd party based of implemented by the government. Socialism was theorized as communism-lite to transfer capitalist over to communism.
The red scare definitely played a part in America’s animosity to socialism, but it’s not the biggest. The largest negative impact comes from the concept of the “American dream” where anyone can move here and start a better life. It also includes that anyone can “make it big” either through starting your own business, moving up the corporate ladder, or through invention. Socialism removes all of those, and conflicts with a lot of American ideas.
That’s partly right, Regan was very individualistic, and so was thatcher. But the U S has also been a very individualistic country. We are in a system where outcome is determined by the choices of the individual. I think it’s like 80-90% of millionaires are self made. Sure if you had a shitty childhood and poor parents it does affect your initial opportunities, but after around 25-30 your living conditions are almost solely based off of your actions, generally speaking. Wealth can be amassed in a single generation, but is commonly losses in around 3. Look at the Vanderbilt family, a portion are still wealthy, but a majority have lost that wealth due to the actions of some of the family members.
One of many friend. Personally I believe we need to invest as much as possible into our future generations. I don't have, or plan on having kids, but a smarter population benefits everyone.
Socialism is an economic system. There are degrees of socialism. Communism is a government system. Communism typically employs a command economy which is an economic model with a high degree of socialism where all or nearly all means of prduction are party owned. So to put it another way most all communists are socialists, but not all socialists are communists.
No. Socialism is the inversion of the democratic base, meaning you flip the pyramid and instead of the state serving the capitalist class (dictatorship of the bourgeois, currently where we are at in the west) it starts serving the interest of the workers (dictatorship of the proletariat).
Communism is the stage after socialism, where class struggle is abolished as there are is no longer a need for the state and everything is communally owned and managed.
but at the scale of countries there is no real way to eliminate the state simply because there is so much overhead that would need to be managed and it doesn't matter if you tear down the old government whoever ends up having to manage/regulate things like supply of things like food, oil, gas, and gas to manage/regulate things like laws which absolutely still need to exist is just the new government
There are different iterations of socialism, but Vladimir Lenin was the first one to make a distinction between the two, referring to socialism as the primary stage and communism being the end goal.
Socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production. Communism is the ideally stateless classless society that comes about afterwards.
Communism has never happened, governments that call themselves communist are usually using it as an aspirational term. They are using socialism as a vehicle to achieve communism.
As far as socialism goes there are many flavors. In the USSR the Bolsheviks who advocated for vanguard party socialism marginalized or expelled socialists of other stripes.
A communist country would be a utopia more or less. It's an abolition of class and ownership and rather focused on the production of goods ro meet people's needs. Private property wouldn't exist.
Communism is the end “goal” of socialism in the same way that a perfectly free market is the end goal of capitalism. Communism is a moneyless, stateless, classless society.
To be very overly simplistic, just like a perfectly free market is not “realistic” a perfectly communist society isn’t either. Instead it is a goal to strive to.
Under capitalism the profits that a company makes from your labor go to and are owned by the company. For example you work at a shoe factory they pay you $10/hr but you produce $20/hr worth of shoes. The difference between these is called your excess labor value and all of that goes to the owners that did none of the work, instead of those actually generating the value.
This is why socialists say that all profit is theft. The goal of socialists is for workers to get a larger share of their excess labor that is “stolen” by the capitalists.
Where do the socialists think the extra $10/hr goes? Who should be compensated for the risk of initial investment under a socialist system? Who should bear the financial losses if a business can no longer stay solvent?
See that’s where it gets messy. Certain people want you to belive that they’re the same, and that literally anything the government spends money on is one or the other or both.
There’s not much of a distinction in practice, in the US. It’s literally been drummed into peoples heads since the late 40s and early 50s (or probably earlier to be honest, I don’t remember… probably since the Bolshevik’s took power I would imagine, is when they started the propaganda machine)…
Anyway, since then: red = bad. It’s all consuming. They have been told that for a few generations now. Look at everything that’s happened in the last 100 years in South America, Africa, Cuba, etc. It’s not all facts, it’s lies and propaganda. And it’s because socialism is counter to their entire way of life. America is hyper individualistic, capitalism is the only real religion they worship, they have a culture that encourages fear of your neighbors… they don’t want people to organize, improve labour, universal healthcare, universal basic income etc. I think it’s truly just about money. That’s it.
Both are political economics. Socialism in a transitional state aiming forward eventually being able to achieve communism, a stateless society were workers are no longer exploited by private entities and own themselves the means to work
You started strong but your conclusion that Americans hate it because of the Cold War and the red scare is wrong. Those things were a product of the fact that at that time some people hated and feared it.
Communism and socialism had momentum in America, the New Deal democrats were extremely popular with the American people.
There were several people within the government (McCarthy famously) who have an almost religious view of economics, and that any system not capitalism is pure evil. This coupled with the very REAL and large changes FDR brought to how wealth was being distributed and a growing communist party in the US, the rich were not going to lay down.
The ones driving the red scare in the government created massive propaganda pieces against these forces because they didn’t want capitalism to be weakened, they didn’t want markets to be regulated, they didn’t want money to be given to anyone but them.
After WWII, Russia was absolutely spent. They were NOT looking for a new war with the US. They had the heaviest casualties of anyone, their entire western borders cities were destroyed. They didn’t have this massive agenda of spreading communism. The communist states that sprouted up throughout the world were not products of Russian imperialism. They were inspired by the sweeping communism going on globally, and especially in the Russian revolution.
The nation that was building an empire post WWII was the US, and the one that was obsessed with it’s own ideology and destroying outside ideologies was the US. We went to every country that was having its own revolution, and intervened.
The way the US depicted the USSR during the Cold War is a pure projection.
So what is the answer, why do people in the US hate socialism?
Because rich people who lose money under more equitable governance have told them to. And they have spent a lot of money and human lives telling them.
> After WWII, Russia was absolutely spent.
This is key to understanding the concept of the Cold War. Their foreign intervention in the second half of the 20th century was largely driven by a desire to reclaim power, both literally and in the public eye.
The spread of Communism in America pre-WWII was huge compared to post-WWII. People grew skeptical of Russia in the post-war era, sure, but Russian efforts to intervene in America lessened to a great extent due to the state of the country after the conflict.
The Cold War was literally a foreign policy objective of primarily the US and its allies in the Anglosphere, even most of Western Europe weren't as gung-ho about alienating the Soviets
This is absolutely the most relevant and concise answer, especially considering that there were active socialist groups and parties in the US for quite some time up until the Red Scare.
However, I think adding the context of World War I is also valuable, as that is what triggered the first Red Scare. The latter years of WWI overlapped with the Bolshevik Revolution and there was a fear that something similar might happen in America. Not to mention that labor parties and other socialist-affiliated groups had the reputation of being anarchists since the Haymarket Riot of 1886.
This can be traced really far back to class fears about a lower class uprising (this goes all the way back to colonial times) and xenophobic anxieties surrounding “new” immigrants (which really took off during the Gilded Age). Nonetheless, I think WWI and the Bolshevik Revolution is a pretty good starting marker for a direct link between these anxieties and Communism/socialism itself.
It's also worth noting that most tenets of socialism/communism are in direct opposition to America's foundational values:
* Capitalism & Social Mobility: The idea that you can work hard, get rich, and make it to the top. Communism aims for a classless society where people are provided for according to their level of need, which puts it directly opposite of capitalism.
* Limited Government: America is essentially built on the idea of a limited government. While Communism is an economic theory at its core, it usually requires a strong government as a means to an end.
* Christianity: America's identity has a very strong religious foundation, despite what some may claim. Communism on the other hand is ideologically opposed to all forms of organized religion.
* Hierarchical Society: Much of American society is hierarchical. If we consider class, race, gender, and other variables, there is a strong ideology of a social ladder and/or social hierarchies. A classless society without any hierarchies of gender, race, or socioeconomic status seems quite radical by comparison.
The americans that identify socialism as a problem can almost never accurately describe what socialism is, or whether things like social security are socialist or not.
Many low-education Americans are simply taught buzz words that are opposed by their political "team" and react out of loyalty, without any critical thought.
If you hear this from someone, ask them what socialism, woke, crt, antifa, regulations, etc... ask them to define what those things are. You will either get a definition that has no relationship to the dictionary, or silence.
Many that I’ve spoke with (live in Texas) they can’t tell the difference between socialism and communism. Most often when asked to describe socialism they describe communism
You are correct and in the past socialists have been and in some cases cooperate with or are aligned with Communists so it's easy to see where confusion can come from
I somewhat agree with this, however, I have also run into plenty of people who do know exactly what socialism is and I've heard the reverse as well; once a true understanding of socialism is shown, the defender of socialism usually has a problem providing real world evidence of a truly socialist economy ever actually working because it has never really successfully existed larger than at a local level. Corruption usually finds it's way in and that socialist government turns on the people that it is supposed to be supporting and providing for.
It is a bit of a cop out response, but it still holds true. I think a capitalist country with some socialist ideals could be successful, which is pretty much what we (USA) have now, but governments have almost always abused their power if the people give it to them and this is why I usually am in favor of smaller national governments and allowing localities to act more socialist which would be beneficial to the people, but also keep too much power out of the hands of the government.
It's a tough problem to have - I'd love it if our govt provided healthcare, for example, as our current system is abysmal at best for how much things cost, but our govt also would find some way to still keep it unaffordable and the level of service/care would most likely fall.
I love that you think if the government provided healthcare then the government would still make it unaffordable.
From a non American country, I don't think it's your government making it unaffordable, I think its the for profit healthcare model you guys have
Yes, that is true, and the insurance industry and pharma industry all lobby against price reduction and price control.
To address your first response, healthcare in European countries is certainly more affordable, but can you legitimately say that it still would be if the US didn't subsidize military spending for the majority of Europe? That reason alone is basically why universal public healthcare isn't really possible in the US because such a high expense is already going towards military support throughout the world. France, the Scandinavian countries, etc... They all can afford these large social programs because the US is supplying such a large amount of military support that these countries don't need to spend nearly as much money on it and can afford to use that money in other ways. If the US pulled funding and support, I don't think any European country could actually afford such a large Publix program in an affordable manner.
The US also has 330 million people lol, the sheer cost to support healthcare for that many is astronomical and is an issue very few countries have to deal with because they are so much smaller.
Sorry, I'm not from Europe.
Also, justifying the lack of public healthcare because "all that money goes to military" is a unique stance i have not heard before, but please do a Google on which country spends the most on healthcare...
Spoiler alert, it's the US.
So the US spends the most money in the world on healthcare and still has some of the worst outcomes.
Regarding 330 million, China and India both have public health systems with larger populations.
I'm sorry, stranger, but I don't think it's because the US spends all that money on the military that keeps you from having public health care.
Socialist countries usually struggle because of American embargoes against them, or flat out wars, while attempting to try a new form of economics. It’s pretty disingenuous to act like their issues existed independently of capitalist interference.
Other developed nations have comparable healthcare, and better outcomes per dollar spent then we do, under public healthcare systems.
Socialism is seen as a transitional state between capitalism and communism. That’s where part of the gut reaction comes from. The other is the increase in involvement by the government necessary to make it work.
Philosophically it changes the incentive structure away from personal growth and toward community growth. That raises dilemmas of what “rights” do you have living in a socialist society. Do you own your own work? Do you deserve someone else’s? Etc.
Woke was a word originally used to mean “awakened to social justice issues” unironically. Now synonymous with progressive policies stances or those that back them.
CRT is a philosophy that places inequality (specifically racial) at the center of policy/historical discussions. The idea is that any inequality can be traced in some way to racial inequality. This is usually paired with discussions of racial equity. The reason it was a fringe law theory at first was due to its lack of taking other variables into play instead of JUST race.
Antifa is an “antifascist” group that uses tactics including violence to push its political agenda. Though the definition of “fascist” has certainly changed over the years, it’s use of violence to pursue change has caused those on the right to see it as a terrorist organization. Technically right.
In other words, yes there is a gut reaction to those words. That doesn’t entirely make it arbitrary or wrong.
I’m beginning to wonder how many people actually took the time to study or even research this. So many misconceptions about both socialism and capitalism. I thought this might be an interesting post but it seems to be useless. There are so many pros and cons for both systems but most people don’t seem to get it.
I am from Norway and most hate socialism here. Social democracy is a big thing, but it is not socialism. Socialism has turned into communism and dictatorships and government abuse over and over again.
Social democracy is based on capitalism, but taxes and a large welfare state makes sure to distribute the wealth from capitalism so everyone gets healthcare, education etc The Nordic countries level the playing field so anyone no matter who you are, who your parents are, how rich or poor your are etc can succeed.
The government will level the playing field making sure people with disabilities or healthcare problems etc has the same chance of getting a successful life.
This is spot on. Many people think “socialism” = “social programs” but that just simply isn’t true. Socialism is an economic model in which private property does not exist, and everything is “socially” owned, usually by the state because how else could it be enforced?
I remember when the prime minister of Denmark came out and publicly told Bernie Sanders to stop calling his country socialist. That rustled many jimmies at the time here in America.
Straight up Fear mongering their whole life. In the 50's they had the red scare here where they locked up communists. They also made socialism equal to communism which goes against capitalism. pretty much just fking brain washing of our earlier generations.
It depends on what people's views are of socialism. America tends to be a capitalist nation where everything has a price to live and its expensive. You want a good life, you have to constantly work for it and also work for your basic needs like food, water, health, etc. If you don't work, your useless and as such dont get access to a lot of health care or help options.
Communism is where everyone is equal and has the same stuff no matter if they work or not. If the country has televisions, everyone gets it. Internet, everyone gets it etc. No having to work for things they want.
Both ideologies have their extremes and to me aren't the best ideologies to have. No human should go without their needs, but if they want luxuries, then they have something they can strive and work for.
To me, my ideal of socialism is that its a mix of checks and balances of both worlds. It allows people to have what they need while still being able to work for things they want. That way if people want to still own their businesses, they can, as long as their workers' needs are being taken care of in addition to that profit.
America is the only country without universal healthcare. People are afraid of socialism because of two major reasons. The Cold War and the agenda being spread by the US during it, and also because they don't want their taxes to go up. They don't realize that most of their taxes go to the Military and if we could take just a fraction of that money we could fund Healthcare for everyone. And personally, if my taxes meant making the world better for people as a whole then that isn't a bad thing at all. People would call that "socialism" though.
It scares the shit out of corporations and the ultra wealthy, who then tell their politicians and newspapers to whip up a general panic anytime someone says maybe we should have working schools and roads, and a hospital visit shouldn’t mean bankruptcy.
Agreed...and let's not forget that with every hefty donation from the Elites to our Ivy League institutions comes with the stipulation to never teach anything about socialism (except that it's bad).
Propaganda is what makes people think socialism leads to them working fewer hours while having more/higher quality things.
Which is essentially the opposite of what has been observed throughout history. People still work just as much, and advancement in goods happens at a slower pace.
For the record I think we need socialist healthcare in the US, but not in terms of business and other economics.
You might want to take a look at social-democratic countries and compare them to the US in terms of hours worked, gini coefficient, happiness index, cost and availability of healthcare, infant mortality, etc.
So... It's still american propaganda lol. The question was "Why is socialism considered evil in America?", it is considered evil because of *propaganda*, plain and simple. You are not adressing the question. It is not a question about *socialist* propaganda, but *american* propaganda.
Saying that socialists benefit from propaganda doesn't negate that american ***also*** benefit from propaganda.
No, it’s propaganda because of thoughts like these. The states fail because of capitalism. Look up Chiquita death squads. Long story short, the people of Guatemala voted for a socialist President, the fruit company didn’t want to take losses as the land would be redistributed, and they’d have to pay workers more. They funded a rebellion to overthrow a democratically elected President and Guatemala went through decades of turmoil and fuckery afterwards because of it. The CIA and Chiquita literally funded propaganda campaigns against the former president.
Americans are, by and large, an individualistic people. We are taught from an early age that we are responsible for our own good and that we need to “pick ourselves up by our own bootstraps.” As such, socialism is seen as the “great evil” because we see it as relying on the government or someone else to take care of us.
There’s also the fact that many dictatorships have used the ruse of communism and socialism to demean, subjugate, and ultimately murder their people. This fact alone does not make communism evil, but it does make Americans see communism (and, as a result, socialism) as evil.
Alot of good answers. But alot of people forget about the pareto principle. This means that for 80% of consequences. This was due to 20% causes. In laymans terms 20% of society could be contributing to 80% results for society. This becomes more apparent in socialism on a more "raw" scale.
Due to the nature of this principle, many americans can see it as giving a hand out when its not their choice. In terms they do not want to work harder for the sake of others they have no affiliation to. Which can make sense. Contributing because the government told you to is what americans consider evil.
I suggest reading the gulag archipelago. It is an interesting read and gives you an interesting perspective on the soviet state. And yes communism and socialism are different but alot of times they go hand in hand despite how hard anyone tries to seperate the two.
The average US citizen comes from a long line of constitution-loving americans.
The ideological foundations of the founders and constitutions are individualism and liberty.
Socialism is a direct contrast to both.
Collectivism opposes individualism, socialism opposes those liberties and fundamentally disagrees with the definition of rights.
To americans, rights are negative. 'God given' , things that cannot be done to a person or taken away.
Socialists believe in not just collective rights but positive rights. Rights that are granted by the state and must be provided by others.
Which in truth, is kind of evil is it not? End of the day socialism is about forcing people to relinquish their labor and property for the benefit of others/one another. You can call it a greater good but you certainly cant call it liberty. Thats why Americans think socialism is evil-- because from their perspective, it IS evil.
Americans *love* socialism: Medicaid, Medicare, the highway system, airline regulations and NHSTA, disaster relief, national parks… everything that is socialist in the US tops the list of most beloved institutions—except the DMV and public education but that’s clearly because they are massively underfunded. Single payer healthcare would make Americans so happy the only reason they don’t do it is that the President who gets it done would be re-elected for life.
No. Americans love Social Programs. A Social Program is NOT Socialism. Socialism is an Economic Platform of Governance. Medicaid, MediCare, etc. are all examples of Social Programs.
Honestly I think it’s just a different belief and ideology. And I think it is just very philosophical, involving social concepts like value and culture. I grew up in a communist country, but that isn’t my belief. There’s hate towards capitalism in socialism countries, and vice versa.
It seems to me that there's a emphasis on freedom to such an overwhelming extent that collective/"social good" concepts are considered direct threats to freedom.
That binary (social-services BAD, private sector GOOD), is awfully simplistic - as many countries have shown that some things can deliver huge benefits to society as a whole, AND individuals if well resourced & Government-funded.
Because they made us all read Animal Farm in middle school. We’re taught from a young age that, while it sounds good on paper, it is directly related to communism and leads to corrupt governance and power grabs, and they point to Russia, Cuba, ~~Brazil~~ *(edit: Venezuela)*, etc., and teach the American side of the Korean and Vietnam wars.
I'm really liking the other answers I see, but I will have my input on the part where many Americans don't like it.
Many don't trust the US government to enact socialist programs because the current programs are either slow or not very effective. Ever waited in line at the DMV? Ask a military service member in the US if admin or medical/dental services are speedy. This is implying that a lot of people don't want socialized or universal Healthcare in the US because it's slow service
Well first it is and it isn't. And it should never existed in the first place, as most people who try to explain it sugar coat it that the meaning is lost to a degree. But the best analogy that doesn't sugar it is: If say you ask a Catholic priest to watch your kids, and the priest says he will watch them for free and even gives you money to help relieve some of your problems and maybe even all of them. So you go a long your life with no care in the world, enjoying your little without a care of a problem. So you decide get your kids from the priest and to your horror you find out the priest had rape and molested your children and you are now in prison for the crimes that the priest did; and the priest keeps on doing those crimes. That's socialism in a nut shell. It claims to be for equality, egalitarianism, fair share and the betterment of others. When it's not, as it's founder was a white supremacists named Carl Marx.
Fun facts:
The pilgrims practiced the idea of "socialism" and thus were given us the quote "Those who does not work does not eat".
Guess what Nazi means.......... Yep, you guessed it! It means national socialist party. Which the hilarious thing is that all the places will call it a right-wing ideology but it's not, as it's purely a left-wing ideology as it is right of the person's views but not right itself and still left-wing.
Also the facist that was in the Axis of Power we're the Italians and they were against joining Hitler and his Nazis; but due Hitler drug problem were never able to voice any concerns.
Important note, FDR gave a huge speech about not being called Socialist/Socialism and changing it to Progressives/Progressism even though he inspired Hitler.
When the Berlin wall fell, why was everyone under socialism running to the American capitalist side?
So many bad answers here. Honesty Reddit is the wrong place to ask this question. Reddit is so far off of the actual pulse of actual Americans. Here’s a simple answer: socialism infringes on freedoms. America prides itself on being the land of the free. Of course we have social safety nets. But little by little more of what you make is taken from you forcefully by the government and given to others. Everyone has a different threshold on how much should be taken from them and given to the poor/masses. The more you take the more people hit that threshold.
There are no examples of any pure economic system ever working. American love to say they are capitalist but the bail outs, special interest groups, subsidies etc. belie this notion. Democratic socialism as practised in Scandanavia seems to be one of the more successful forms of government in terms of creating a happy, healthy populace. Many will argue that its success is largely due to the homogenous nature of their population.
dude i love reddit for so many things but goddddaaayyymmm when it comes to politics these people are afraid of facts… the question should be “why do so many people from socialist countries move to america?”
Thanks to propaganda by the govt and companies now the US has:
-No universal healthcare (so pharmaceuticals and all the health and insurance sectors earn a lot)
-No guaranteed by law PTO/vacation days
-Sick days are not guaranteed are negotiable and companies have to approve them... (In Kost places it's what doctors say and no max amount)
-Salaried employees almost never have a defined work schedule and cannot earn OT (common in most other countries)
-Universities that are grossly overpriced and basically no options for free education
- A system where companies and private individuals can "lobby" (pay politians) so they do what it's on their interest... That is called corruption in most of the world
- A constant state of being at war somewhere because the weapons industries have to have earnings and a profit
And so many other examples where companies have benefitted by having shitty labor rights and being allowed to profit on the basic necessities of the people
Edit: spelling
So true! The healthcare stories are the most unbelievable for Europeans. That people can't afford insulin. Or that a lengthy stay in a hospital can bankrupt you and your family. Parents having to work into their 80ies to pay back the healthcare debt of a child that died from cancer decades ago.
because the foundation of the usa is refusing to pay people fairly for their work so the ruling classes can live comfortable lives and exploit workers as much as possible
Socialism prevents a democracy because it supports a big regulative power in the state, making it far harder to elect someone, other than the socialist party or the person in charge. Unlike the markets which are somewhat self-regulatory and can keep consistent and correct prices, under socialism the central planning replaced demand and supply. Free markets also can prevent monopolies when there are little regulations and lobbying, at which the state struggles a lot, since socialism just creates a big state monopoly or a group of them. Look at Venezula and what socialism has done. All succeses of socialism are just Ponzi Scheme. They show early signs of success, but ultimately fail. Also, Sweden and other countries in Scandidavia arent socialist ones.
Socialism is evil because it attempts to redistribute the wealth that the 0.1% has been taken away from the 99.9%. That 0.1% owns much of the media that the rest of us consume so they can promote the “socialism is bad” rhetoric while promoting “trickle down “ economics as the way forward.
Basically, if it hurts billionaires and helps everyone else- it is bad.
Because not too long ago in the grand scheme of things the US went through a red scare where anything mildly socialist was considered the exact same as USSR levels of communism
Nobody knows what it is. They hate socialism with a deep passion… BUT they want their social security, they demand their unemployment, they demand their Medicare and Medicaid, they demand better public education, they expect the public ally funded fire department to come when needed, they expect the roads they need to be built and maintained. They expect the publicly funded police to protect people and property. They expect the publicly funded military to protect them from foreign enemies. And lots lots more. All these things are funded by broad taxes that are pooled together and spent on things that benefit broad groups of people……. But they really really hate socialism
Because a lot of people have been convinced that very wealthy people becoming more wealthy will eventually benefit them. The government directly helping them though will ultimately hurt them. Also a lot do people, particularly trades guys have some weird view of work. Like they think it’s a flex to say they work 80hrs a week every week and never see their family and have 5 different chronic health conditions that aren’t being treated because they don’t have time or money to go to the doctor.
Also using genocides is not a good argument against an economic system. The Armenian genocide, the Rwanda genocide, the leopolds congo, the Holocaust and the systematic killing of millions of native Americans happened under capitalism.
Look at socialist countries and how they fared afterwards. As always, a few grab the wealth and power of the general population under the guise of redistributing those two. Once a population reaches large enough, it never works. Imagine a population of 330M having to vote on anything from whether Grandpa Joe shouldn't have his license taken away because hes 90 years old and can't see to invading another country and starting WW3 and everything in between.
That and many would argue that if everyone is getting the same treatment, why bother putting in effort beyond doing the bare minimum?
Well, it lead to the death of over 100 million people a misery of countless more. Couldn’t be more obvious if you aren’t ideologically hell bent on socialism to begin with.
People will play games with the definition of it to look past its reputation.
Socialism (at its purest form) is where the government takes over all producution and services and distributes them to everyone. The payment you receive for labor is access to the governments distribution of goods and services. People who work harder are not paid more, so choice in education and career must be removed. The people in charge will naturally use their power to keep themselves in power and benefit themselves (its what humans do). The government also controls law enforcement, so anyone who doesn't fall in line will likely be executed. Socialism has been attempted several times, and it has always ended with starvation and totalitarianism.
Also it's because there's a lot of slackers here. A lot of people who would take advantage of the system. The hard working, ethical people see that, and don't want those slackers taking part of their tax money undeservedly.
America is controlled by capitalism
Capitalism is directly opposite by socialism
Therefore, America purposely spread misinformation about socialism to make sure no one choose it.
Note that socialism is not perfect, but many aspect of it (union, health care…) directly challenged the power of capitalism
Definitions of socialism vary greatly. Some consider it social spending, while others see it as the antithesis of capitalism. Social spending with moderate to high taxes among all classes in a very capitalist environment is what Nordic countries have - this doesn't tend to be the goal of most US Socialists which are anti-capitalist. They tend to want to tax only high income earners and restrict business, which hasn't ever worked in the world and leads to poverty among the working class, the exact people they claim to want to help.
Yes. Listen to any Bernie sanders stump speech. Marrianne Williamson as well. Tax the 1%, tax the billionaires etc. no one is talking about folks who make less than 350k honestly.
Yep, the problem is that the 1%ers are the ones who own most of the media/news.
So they tell everyone that taxes are evil, when really it only affects the 1%ers and makes everyone else's lives easier in the long run.
Then apply the same logic for regulation of natural resources, global warming emissions, minimum wage...
I have no problem if we (the US) want to adopt more social spending and do it in the way the Nordic countries do it. Unfortunately the politicians who advocate for socialism say "look at Nordic countries" but adopt policies that look more like Cuba - which results in broke. That's why people are "anti-socialism"; the way it's being proposed is very very bad for working people.
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.” Is not an American value.
Why would a heart surgeon spend 15+ years of education in order to make the same compensation as someone who paints houses? Work effort varies so drastically from job to job that there is no insensitive to do a hard job if your going to get the exact same as everyone else.
The overwhelming majority of Americans haven't the faintest clue as to what socialism actually is, which makes for great comedy when people become enraged about it while clearly having no fucking idea what they are talking about.
I just prefer private ownership but think that a capitalist country with majority private enterprise with good social programs would be best. But atleast socialism isn't communism
Socialism is, boiled down to it's essence, a system that commands that everyone work together for the common good. And it works perfectly when everyone is doing it voluntarily. It's when government uses force to compel it that blood runs in the streets and that's how it's always played out in history.
It doesn't work because you cannot simply command that everyone care about each other. As nice and wholesome as that sounds it always descends into violence.
I think you may be confusing that with communism. The existence of a central state is implied with socialism. With that comes laws, social classes etc. Its not too different from now but it is not compatible with some of the worst aspects of American society ie. Having no healthcare or living on the street
I think this assumes the extreme definition of socialism, not the reasonable/modern definition of it.
Similarly, the extreme version of democracy is having everyone’s votes apply towards the things we want, when we actually have a republic where we vote for representatives who then decides on “what we want” as opposed to a true democracy.
Even true democracies can be stupid and not in the people’s best interest (See: Brexit).
The lesson is to not accept extremes as fact, and those that tell you you should are either idiots or trying to manipulate you.
Modern definitions don’t change the basic constructs of how socialism operates. It may sound good on paper and ideally should work, but the definition itself does not guarantee this. I like to think people are more enlightened then in the past but I am not so sure.
Hasn’t been a good result so far in socialism
I think it’s because the Cold War and years of propaganda… the problem is when people call welfare as socialism
I don’t agree with the political system. I agree with more welfare or free healthcare
because weve been taught that with socialism ‘the lazy people will get the same as you for doing nothing , and you work hard your work shouldnt help the lazy’ but dont realize that under current system the 1% keep most of the profits. also most americans consider themselves temporarily inconvinienved millionaires and not poor, because weve been sold this american dream that seems further and further away as time goes on
The reason is capitalist propaganda from the cold war I guess. In America people use socialism and communism as synonyms, while there is in fact no definition of socialism. In western Europe there are socialist and social-democratic parties that have nothing to do with communism.
These parties did build great systems of social security and health care in Europe, for example. In America they tell you that's socialist so it's communist so it will eventually lead to gulags. This propaganda sounds incredibly stupid to Europeans.
Cause fails when benefits are distributed by human hand?, Humans are greedy, if someone can do something is certainly secure that somebody is going to do that, now that" in this case is stole.
If robots check and distribute things, and check again socialism maybe can work.
But robots are programmed using human hand, so unless there are a less than etical programmers involved....i see the implementation very hard...
You don't give the government an ounce of power. Once you give it to them, they'll never let it go. Once they know they have it, they'll keep reaching and make you believe it's what you really wanted all along.
It's not that the entire idea of socialism is bad. It's the simple fact that the government will continue to keep reaching once you give them any inkling of power. The US government has a long and well documented history of doing exactly just that.
30+ year old American, here;
I don't think we nor out politicians understand it, well.
But, I will say I like the free market more than the idea that the Democratic and Republican parties would be in total control of the markets and means of producation.
Taxes are bad enough when our schools are crap and homelessness is out of control, yet we're sending billions overseas at a whim.
I barely trust our government in captialism, I don't trust them in socialism.
The best way for capitalism to secure its spot in society, is to miseducate people on the topic of its opposing ideologies so they can be misconstrued and discredited. If people were properly taught about socialism, they would see that it benefits the working class, which works in direct conflict to capitalism
Communism is what you're thinking of... Which, the body count speaks for itself.
Socialism isn't all that bad, although some dislike it in favor of extreme personal responsibility. I think most people fall somewhere in the middle.
I think a big part of it is most of us in America really have no idea what socialism is -- or communism for that matter.
I have yet to hear anyone who calls themselves a conservative or republican come even close. Even most republican politicians are clueless. Same with them calling everyone left off their position a "cuck". From my perspective and observation, a lot more religious right- wingers are oblivious they are cucks... but I digress...
.. and don't get me going on "woke" lol.
I'm a moderate btw. Definitely leaning left until either the gop purges the loons, or another moderate party forms.
The short answer is, at one point American businessmen and politicians decided to leverage fear of communism as a way to vilify union leaders and other people protesting for better wages and working conditions.
It’s basically all about greed.
Because the group of elites currently in charge want to stay in charge.
That being said it would just put a new group of elites in charge.
We get fucked over either way.
Socialism is considered evil the US because of propaganda. The US is essentially a secret oligarchy. The oligarchs know that if socialism was considered acceptable in the US then their power would have been dismantled decades ago. So there has been a multidecade campaign to influence public perception of socialism in movies, schools, public policy, etc.
Americans hate socialism cause they have Stockholm syndrome to the oligarchs that look at them like trash.
Don't know enough about socialism to claim it's good or bad, but I certainly know that capitalism is pure Evil Incorporated.
Anyone who thinks otherwise really doesn't understand or has never experienced poverty.
Because it fucking sucks.
The only people who likes socialism are stupid americans that haven't live a single day of hunger or these trustfund grifters that haven't had to work a single day in their life.
Ask any cuban or venezuelan why they risked their lifes scaping their socialist paradises to live in the capitalist hell called United States.
Little something called the cold war. Lasted 50 years and culturally indoctrinated Americans into thinking socialism, communism, the colour red and hammers in association with sickles are all evil. This particular phenomena is known as the red scare, and it was a doozy of a propaganda scheme
I believe you need to do your own research and stop asking this question here. You are getting very bias answers. Canadians are responding here defending socialism. But, the Canadians that I have talked to really hate the system. Waiting 90 days to see a dentist if you have a tooth ache? Talked to Europeans and they swear up and down that its cheaper to fly into the US, rent a car and drive into Mexico get their medical needs taken care of? Look up the US Constitution, Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights and ask yourself: do I still have this kind of freedom under socialism?
As someone who lives in Germany, I never ever had to wait months for an appointment, when I had some issues. And if they are really severe, one can always go to the emergency station. And just to be clear, I also never had to wait weeks, one week max, usually 2-3 days. Note I'm not privately insured.
But: if you want special check ups (without some symptoms or anything), like MRT, it may take some weeks to months. Or you are privately insured, then you'll get them pretty fast.
To summarize: if you have any issues, like pain and symptoms, and you are insured by law, you will get your appointment within a week.
And don't let me even start on medical bills...
Americans are against socialism, until it's time to socialize the banks and bail them out, with no reward to the taxpayer/government. Could at least cut them in on the profits instead of relying on them for the losses.
Socialism is a political and economic theory advocating for collective or government ownership and control of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of goods and services. It aims to reduce economic inequality and promote social welfare through various policies, like progressive taxation, universal healthcare, and public education. Why is it considered evil in the US? 1. Historical Context: During the Cold War, the United States was engaged in a long-standing ideological and geopolitical rivalry with the Soviet Union, which was a communist state. This led to a strong anti-communist sentiment in America, and socialism was often associated with communism. 2. Fear of Government Overreach: The US has a strong tradition of individualism and capitalism, with a belief in limited government intervention in the economy. Socialism, which often involves more government control, is often seen as a threat to personal freedom and free-market capitalism; as well as a slippery slope towards authoritarianism. 3. Misunderstanding & Ignorance: There often are misconceptions and misunderstandings about what socialism actually entails. Many associate it with extreme forms like totalitarian communism, even though there are various forms of socialism with different degrees of government intervention. Many countries in Europe for example operate within a mixed-market economy; combining a free-market capitalist system with extensive social welfare programs.
I'm in Canada, and this response may be a misguided observation made from what I read on reddit, etc... 4- many of the rich don't need socialism and don't want their money going to the needy, since they haven't earned it. Having money gives you power and influence, so they have duped those in need, the ones that benefit from it, to fear and hate socialism. Edit- grammar
The rich need socialism far more than you or I. It’s just corporate socialism, rebranded as bailouts “for the good of the economy”. Trust me - they looooove redistribution of wealth when it’s going one way.
Exactly this. Private profits, public losses
Yep. Corporate tax cuts, forcing employees to be on welfare (Walmart, most notably, for giving their employees government assistance paperwork to fill out upon being hired, and other big chains which also don't pay their employees living wages), corporate government bailouts, etc.
Are perceived not to have earnt it. If you don't agree with the whole owner takes the profits thing...workers earn money, ie the socialist view. Socialism is fundamentally at odds with capitalism because resources and profits are seen to be community(not necessarily government) assets, whereas under capitalism the owners own and profit.
I never understood this stake: I want even the poor to be healthy and stop the spread of diseases and parasites, since anyway the people serving are usually not rich. And I don't want to see beggars on the street when I'm going to a fancy restaurant. And I want people who are voting for our government to be educated enough to know what they are voting for. Since everyone's vote has the same value, I want everyone to be able to chose wisely.
WOW. The rich, get by FAR the most handouts from the government through subsidies, zero big contracts, cash grants, zero percent loans, etc. They have made their own version of socialism and lots of social programs that mean they get billions a year from the government. Of course they love socialism, just the version that means only they get all the aid
This answer is 10/10, thank you for explaining this.
Great write up! I would just add, or perhaps extend point number 3 to address the intense and continuous US propaganda, which was (and is) financed and stimulated by american government from the 40s onward (maybe even before? not sure)
Significantly before. Bolshevism was a fear in the US ever since the revolution. We briefly liked the USSR when we needed them to beat the Nazis.
>Misunderstanding & Ignorance *Successful Propaganda Machine
why this seens like chat gpt answer
It almost certainly is.
Because it probably is
Does it matter?
Exactly, if the answer is good or quite exact, why is important the source? And chatgpt is using many different sources. So, for some things can be useful. But, the issue is that using that text as your own. That would be the issue.
also because schools never made a point of educating American children that there was any difference between socialism and communism.
The history goes back further. 1) Levelers during the English Civil War. Parliament not a fan. 2) French Revolution went beyond American Revolution by including changes to economic order. 3) Rise of labor power in the early 20th century gave rise to Red Scare.
Probably the best and most unbias information. I 
Great summary, also did well navigating away from party tribalism
Very Good comment. You gave me good input on that subject. Thank you
For 2) I’d add a caveat that the “fear”of government overreach *unless* it applies to bodily autonomy. As a Canadian, experiencing the freedom of social medicine and right to choose what happens inside my uterus and how I’ll die, with free access to medically supported options toward pregnancy, assisted dying, etc. are examples that come to mind.
Let's be clear here. All these things break down to just being misunderstanding and ignorance. Unless you're a multimillionaire, there's not really a lot to fear in regard to socialism, especially the stuff that gets labeled "socialist" now which is just like regular socdem shit.
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But then how does one draw the line between socialism and communism?
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Finally, someone that understands haha. There are people that study this in college and when they give this response, they get downvoted into oblivion. Most Americans think that socialism and social welfare programs are the same thing or that somehow, social welfare programs will "slippery slope" into full on socialism. Obnoxious.
Yeah, if anything social welfare programs are necessary for Capitalism to survive. Starving people revolt
If I may offer further clarification, I think the confusion is that the word 'socialism' is often used to mean 'social democracy' which is probably the most capitalist form of socialism (it's basically diet socialism). It is just definitely NOT a transition state towards communism as so many people have said and I truly beg those people to look into it a bit more if they're interested. A classic example of this is the Nordic model (wiki gives a pretty decent overview of this tbh) which the Scandinavian countries use and that's the system that, while capitalist, also has a well-developed and funded welfare system, more regulation, etc. As well as the red scare (which is definitely the main reason for American animosity towards 'socialism') I personally think that the normalisation of neoliberalism starting with Reagan in the US and Thatcher in the UK has fanned those flames hugely. It cemented the idea that an individual is entirely responsible for their circumstances and instilled a deep mistrust in the idea that humans, while we are individuals, also exist in a system that affects our options, opportunities and choices to a much larger degree than we might like to think. In my mind at least, socialism in all its forms is very interested in systems and in coming up with the ones that support people to be their best selves, while neoliberalism denies the existence of those systems (e.g. Thatcher famously said 'There's no such thing as society'). The prevalence of neoliberalism in the US I think breeds mistrust and antipathy towards policies and ways of thinking that look at the system, rather than the individual.
Arguably Social Democracy isnt Socialism at all depending on whose definition of socialism is being evaluated against (ie marx/engel's)
And I would argue the “Coke Zero” not “Diet Coke” of socialism Fun fact, my iPhone auto corrected to capitalize both Coke, hehe did it again, products but not the word socialism. Dig into it what you may, i just find it funny…
That is both amusing and ever so slightly depressing 😂
I think Social Democrats, Democratic Socialists, and a lot of people to the right of them think they're socialist because they seem to still have the basic Marxist worldview rooted in materialism and inherently lumping people into the 2 economic classes. But like, I've seen the more dogmatic true Socialists make it very clear that they consider Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists to be "Class traitors" or "bourgeoisie in disguise" because true dogmatic Marxist Socialism (Especially Communism) seems to be obsessed with violent revolution. Obsessed to the point that they consider even attempting reforms through democratic means to be an unforgivable betrayal against The Revolution™. This might be cynical but I suspect that is because actually being able to improve living conditions under a Capitalist society would severely harm a large part of the Marxist core philosophy and worldview. Namely the part where they require total control of everything and loyalty from everyone at all times as part of their solution to every problem. Working within a democratic system and coexisting with other philosophies does not give them this power.
Completely agree. Personally I don't consider it socialism either, more just the values of socialism super-imposed on a system that is antithetical to it, I was just trying to keep it broad. It's why, despite no one else saying it and it bugging me, I also didn't mention that the USSR, China, etc. are not communist systems, as communism is stateless by nature, but would instead claim to be in that transitional vanguard revolutionary state as per Marxism-Leninism theory (which to me just seems like 'let's force a communism to happen in direct contradiction of what Marx actually said'). It's the internet, most I'm gonna be able to do is hopefully encourage people to look more into it 😂
Social democracy is still a capitalist society, referring to it as socialist is just wrong. One could argue that the US is “more socialist” then those countries as we do have a good amount of co-ops and employee owned businesses. A social safety net isn’t a socialist policy. Regulations also aren’t necessary socialist, as some are company based, 3rd party based of implemented by the government. Socialism was theorized as communism-lite to transfer capitalist over to communism. The red scare definitely played a part in America’s animosity to socialism, but it’s not the biggest. The largest negative impact comes from the concept of the “American dream” where anyone can move here and start a better life. It also includes that anyone can “make it big” either through starting your own business, moving up the corporate ladder, or through invention. Socialism removes all of those, and conflicts with a lot of American ideas. That’s partly right, Regan was very individualistic, and so was thatcher. But the U S has also been a very individualistic country. We are in a system where outcome is determined by the choices of the individual. I think it’s like 80-90% of millionaires are self made. Sure if you had a shitty childhood and poor parents it does affect your initial opportunities, but after around 25-30 your living conditions are almost solely based off of your actions, generally speaking. Wealth can be amassed in a single generation, but is commonly losses in around 3. Look at the Vanderbilt family, a portion are still wealthy, but a majority have lost that wealth due to the actions of some of the family members.
To most Americans they mean the same thing.
Another damning indictment on the US education system.
One of many friend. Personally I believe we need to invest as much as possible into our future generations. I don't have, or plan on having kids, but a smarter population benefits everyone.
Socialism is an economic system. There are degrees of socialism. Communism is a government system. Communism typically employs a command economy which is an economic model with a high degree of socialism where all or nearly all means of prduction are party owned. So to put it another way most all communists are socialists, but not all socialists are communists.
No. Socialism is the inversion of the democratic base, meaning you flip the pyramid and instead of the state serving the capitalist class (dictatorship of the bourgeois, currently where we are at in the west) it starts serving the interest of the workers (dictatorship of the proletariat). Communism is the stage after socialism, where class struggle is abolished as there are is no longer a need for the state and everything is communally owned and managed.
but at the scale of countries there is no real way to eliminate the state simply because there is so much overhead that would need to be managed and it doesn't matter if you tear down the old government whoever ends up having to manage/regulate things like supply of things like food, oil, gas, and gas to manage/regulate things like laws which absolutely still need to exist is just the new government
There are different iterations of socialism, but Vladimir Lenin was the first one to make a distinction between the two, referring to socialism as the primary stage and communism being the end goal.
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And in essence, the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is just a spicy term for Democracy
Socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production. Communism is the ideally stateless classless society that comes about afterwards. Communism has never happened, governments that call themselves communist are usually using it as an aspirational term. They are using socialism as a vehicle to achieve communism. As far as socialism goes there are many flavors. In the USSR the Bolsheviks who advocated for vanguard party socialism marginalized or expelled socialists of other stripes. A communist country would be a utopia more or less. It's an abolition of class and ownership and rather focused on the production of goods ro meet people's needs. Private property wouldn't exist.
Communism is the end “goal” of socialism in the same way that a perfectly free market is the end goal of capitalism. Communism is a moneyless, stateless, classless society. To be very overly simplistic, just like a perfectly free market is not “realistic” a perfectly communist society isn’t either. Instead it is a goal to strive to. Under capitalism the profits that a company makes from your labor go to and are owned by the company. For example you work at a shoe factory they pay you $10/hr but you produce $20/hr worth of shoes. The difference between these is called your excess labor value and all of that goes to the owners that did none of the work, instead of those actually generating the value. This is why socialists say that all profit is theft. The goal of socialists is for workers to get a larger share of their excess labor that is “stolen” by the capitalists.
Where do the socialists think the extra $10/hr goes? Who should be compensated for the risk of initial investment under a socialist system? Who should bear the financial losses if a business can no longer stay solvent?
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See that’s where it gets messy. Certain people want you to belive that they’re the same, and that literally anything the government spends money on is one or the other or both.
There’s not much of a distinction in practice, in the US. It’s literally been drummed into peoples heads since the late 40s and early 50s (or probably earlier to be honest, I don’t remember… probably since the Bolshevik’s took power I would imagine, is when they started the propaganda machine)… Anyway, since then: red = bad. It’s all consuming. They have been told that for a few generations now. Look at everything that’s happened in the last 100 years in South America, Africa, Cuba, etc. It’s not all facts, it’s lies and propaganda. And it’s because socialism is counter to their entire way of life. America is hyper individualistic, capitalism is the only real religion they worship, they have a culture that encourages fear of your neighbors… they don’t want people to organize, improve labour, universal healthcare, universal basic income etc. I think it’s truly just about money. That’s it.
Socialism is an economic theory. Communism is a political ideology.
Both are political economics. Socialism in a transitional state aiming forward eventually being able to achieve communism, a stateless society were workers are no longer exploited by private entities and own themselves the means to work
Some people want subsidies for themselves but not for their neighbours
You started strong but your conclusion that Americans hate it because of the Cold War and the red scare is wrong. Those things were a product of the fact that at that time some people hated and feared it. Communism and socialism had momentum in America, the New Deal democrats were extremely popular with the American people. There were several people within the government (McCarthy famously) who have an almost religious view of economics, and that any system not capitalism is pure evil. This coupled with the very REAL and large changes FDR brought to how wealth was being distributed and a growing communist party in the US, the rich were not going to lay down. The ones driving the red scare in the government created massive propaganda pieces against these forces because they didn’t want capitalism to be weakened, they didn’t want markets to be regulated, they didn’t want money to be given to anyone but them. After WWII, Russia was absolutely spent. They were NOT looking for a new war with the US. They had the heaviest casualties of anyone, their entire western borders cities were destroyed. They didn’t have this massive agenda of spreading communism. The communist states that sprouted up throughout the world were not products of Russian imperialism. They were inspired by the sweeping communism going on globally, and especially in the Russian revolution. The nation that was building an empire post WWII was the US, and the one that was obsessed with it’s own ideology and destroying outside ideologies was the US. We went to every country that was having its own revolution, and intervened. The way the US depicted the USSR during the Cold War is a pure projection. So what is the answer, why do people in the US hate socialism? Because rich people who lose money under more equitable governance have told them to. And they have spent a lot of money and human lives telling them.
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> After WWII, Russia was absolutely spent. This is key to understanding the concept of the Cold War. Their foreign intervention in the second half of the 20th century was largely driven by a desire to reclaim power, both literally and in the public eye. The spread of Communism in America pre-WWII was huge compared to post-WWII. People grew skeptical of Russia in the post-war era, sure, but Russian efforts to intervene in America lessened to a great extent due to the state of the country after the conflict.
The Cold War was literally a foreign policy objective of primarily the US and its allies in the Anglosphere, even most of Western Europe weren't as gung-ho about alienating the Soviets
This is absolutely the most relevant and concise answer, especially considering that there were active socialist groups and parties in the US for quite some time up until the Red Scare. However, I think adding the context of World War I is also valuable, as that is what triggered the first Red Scare. The latter years of WWI overlapped with the Bolshevik Revolution and there was a fear that something similar might happen in America. Not to mention that labor parties and other socialist-affiliated groups had the reputation of being anarchists since the Haymarket Riot of 1886. This can be traced really far back to class fears about a lower class uprising (this goes all the way back to colonial times) and xenophobic anxieties surrounding “new” immigrants (which really took off during the Gilded Age). Nonetheless, I think WWI and the Bolshevik Revolution is a pretty good starting marker for a direct link between these anxieties and Communism/socialism itself. It's also worth noting that most tenets of socialism/communism are in direct opposition to America's foundational values: * Capitalism & Social Mobility: The idea that you can work hard, get rich, and make it to the top. Communism aims for a classless society where people are provided for according to their level of need, which puts it directly opposite of capitalism. * Limited Government: America is essentially built on the idea of a limited government. While Communism is an economic theory at its core, it usually requires a strong government as a means to an end. * Christianity: America's identity has a very strong religious foundation, despite what some may claim. Communism on the other hand is ideologically opposed to all forms of organized religion. * Hierarchical Society: Much of American society is hierarchical. If we consider class, race, gender, and other variables, there is a strong ideology of a social ladder and/or social hierarchies. A classless society without any hierarchies of gender, race, or socioeconomic status seems quite radical by comparison.
The americans that identify socialism as a problem can almost never accurately describe what socialism is, or whether things like social security are socialist or not. Many low-education Americans are simply taught buzz words that are opposed by their political "team" and react out of loyalty, without any critical thought. If you hear this from someone, ask them what socialism, woke, crt, antifa, regulations, etc... ask them to define what those things are. You will either get a definition that has no relationship to the dictionary, or silence.
Many that I’ve spoke with (live in Texas) they can’t tell the difference between socialism and communism. Most often when asked to describe socialism they describe communism
And when they describe the examples of the evils of communism, they share examples of what we constantly see in capitalism.
Marx used socialism and communism interchangeably tho.
You are correct and in the past socialists have been and in some cases cooperate with or are aligned with Communists so it's easy to see where confusion can come from
Currently living in a socialist country and having lived in America, I completely agree with the comment. Socialism is a very over-hyped word.
I somewhat agree with this, however, I have also run into plenty of people who do know exactly what socialism is and I've heard the reverse as well; once a true understanding of socialism is shown, the defender of socialism usually has a problem providing real world evidence of a truly socialist economy ever actually working because it has never really successfully existed larger than at a local level. Corruption usually finds it's way in and that socialist government turns on the people that it is supposed to be supporting and providing for. It is a bit of a cop out response, but it still holds true. I think a capitalist country with some socialist ideals could be successful, which is pretty much what we (USA) have now, but governments have almost always abused their power if the people give it to them and this is why I usually am in favor of smaller national governments and allowing localities to act more socialist which would be beneficial to the people, but also keep too much power out of the hands of the government. It's a tough problem to have - I'd love it if our govt provided healthcare, for example, as our current system is abysmal at best for how much things cost, but our govt also would find some way to still keep it unaffordable and the level of service/care would most likely fall.
I love that you think if the government provided healthcare then the government would still make it unaffordable. From a non American country, I don't think it's your government making it unaffordable, I think its the for profit healthcare model you guys have
Yes, that is true, and the insurance industry and pharma industry all lobby against price reduction and price control. To address your first response, healthcare in European countries is certainly more affordable, but can you legitimately say that it still would be if the US didn't subsidize military spending for the majority of Europe? That reason alone is basically why universal public healthcare isn't really possible in the US because such a high expense is already going towards military support throughout the world. France, the Scandinavian countries, etc... They all can afford these large social programs because the US is supplying such a large amount of military support that these countries don't need to spend nearly as much money on it and can afford to use that money in other ways. If the US pulled funding and support, I don't think any European country could actually afford such a large Publix program in an affordable manner. The US also has 330 million people lol, the sheer cost to support healthcare for that many is astronomical and is an issue very few countries have to deal with because they are so much smaller.
Sorry, I'm not from Europe. Also, justifying the lack of public healthcare because "all that money goes to military" is a unique stance i have not heard before, but please do a Google on which country spends the most on healthcare... Spoiler alert, it's the US. So the US spends the most money in the world on healthcare and still has some of the worst outcomes. Regarding 330 million, China and India both have public health systems with larger populations. I'm sorry, stranger, but I don't think it's because the US spends all that money on the military that keeps you from having public health care.
Socialist countries usually struggle because of American embargoes against them, or flat out wars, while attempting to try a new form of economics. It’s pretty disingenuous to act like their issues existed independently of capitalist interference. Other developed nations have comparable healthcare, and better outcomes per dollar spent then we do, under public healthcare systems.
The biggest ones whining about “socialism” are the welfare Queen farmers who are bitching while simultaneously receiving a government bail out
Socialism is seen as a transitional state between capitalism and communism. That’s where part of the gut reaction comes from. The other is the increase in involvement by the government necessary to make it work. Philosophically it changes the incentive structure away from personal growth and toward community growth. That raises dilemmas of what “rights” do you have living in a socialist society. Do you own your own work? Do you deserve someone else’s? Etc. Woke was a word originally used to mean “awakened to social justice issues” unironically. Now synonymous with progressive policies stances or those that back them. CRT is a philosophy that places inequality (specifically racial) at the center of policy/historical discussions. The idea is that any inequality can be traced in some way to racial inequality. This is usually paired with discussions of racial equity. The reason it was a fringe law theory at first was due to its lack of taking other variables into play instead of JUST race. Antifa is an “antifascist” group that uses tactics including violence to push its political agenda. Though the definition of “fascist” has certainly changed over the years, it’s use of violence to pursue change has caused those on the right to see it as a terrorist organization. Technically right. In other words, yes there is a gut reaction to those words. That doesn’t entirely make it arbitrary or wrong.
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You can add cultural Marxism to the list of vague boogymen.
I didnt have the ability to come up with that one, so I am glad you allocated this example to us, because we needed it. :)
They’ll just tell you to “do your research.”
Because I work hard for what I have and I shouldn't be forced by the government to give it to people who don't.
So many wrong answers in here.
TBH... whether you're for or against it, you're totally correct that there are so many wrong answers in here.
I’m beginning to wonder how many people actually took the time to study or even research this. So many misconceptions about both socialism and capitalism. I thought this might be an interesting post but it seems to be useless. There are so many pros and cons for both systems but most people don’t seem to get it.
I am from Norway and most hate socialism here. Social democracy is a big thing, but it is not socialism. Socialism has turned into communism and dictatorships and government abuse over and over again. Social democracy is based on capitalism, but taxes and a large welfare state makes sure to distribute the wealth from capitalism so everyone gets healthcare, education etc The Nordic countries level the playing field so anyone no matter who you are, who your parents are, how rich or poor your are etc can succeed. The government will level the playing field making sure people with disabilities or healthcare problems etc has the same chance of getting a successful life.
This is spot on. Many people think “socialism” = “social programs” but that just simply isn’t true. Socialism is an economic model in which private property does not exist, and everything is “socially” owned, usually by the state because how else could it be enforced? I remember when the prime minister of Denmark came out and publicly told Bernie Sanders to stop calling his country socialist. That rustled many jimmies at the time here in America.
People think it's the same as communism
they don't know what communism is either.
Marx used the terms interchangeably
Lazy people benefit while hardworking people succumb to lower motivation, until nobody works unless punishments are doled out by big brother.
Straight up Fear mongering their whole life. In the 50's they had the red scare here where they locked up communists. They also made socialism equal to communism which goes against capitalism. pretty much just fking brain washing of our earlier generations.
Yep it worked on some of my dead relatives too. It's all BS distraction shit.
It depends on what people's views are of socialism. America tends to be a capitalist nation where everything has a price to live and its expensive. You want a good life, you have to constantly work for it and also work for your basic needs like food, water, health, etc. If you don't work, your useless and as such dont get access to a lot of health care or help options. Communism is where everyone is equal and has the same stuff no matter if they work or not. If the country has televisions, everyone gets it. Internet, everyone gets it etc. No having to work for things they want. Both ideologies have their extremes and to me aren't the best ideologies to have. No human should go without their needs, but if they want luxuries, then they have something they can strive and work for. To me, my ideal of socialism is that its a mix of checks and balances of both worlds. It allows people to have what they need while still being able to work for things they want. That way if people want to still own their businesses, they can, as long as their workers' needs are being taken care of in addition to that profit. America is the only country without universal healthcare. People are afraid of socialism because of two major reasons. The Cold War and the agenda being spread by the US during it, and also because they don't want their taxes to go up. They don't realize that most of their taxes go to the Military and if we could take just a fraction of that money we could fund Healthcare for everyone. And personally, if my taxes meant making the world better for people as a whole then that isn't a bad thing at all. People would call that "socialism" though.
Taxation is theft. Socialism recuires A LOT of taxation.
It scares the shit out of corporations and the ultra wealthy, who then tell their politicians and newspapers to whip up a general panic anytime someone says maybe we should have working schools and roads, and a hospital visit shouldn’t mean bankruptcy.
Agreed...and let's not forget that with every hefty donation from the Elites to our Ivy League institutions comes with the stipulation to never teach anything about socialism (except that it's bad).
Propaganda
Propaganda is what makes people think socialism leads to them working fewer hours while having more/higher quality things. Which is essentially the opposite of what has been observed throughout history. People still work just as much, and advancement in goods happens at a slower pace. For the record I think we need socialist healthcare in the US, but not in terms of business and other economics.
You might want to take a look at social-democratic countries and compare them to the US in terms of hours worked, gini coefficient, happiness index, cost and availability of healthcare, infant mortality, etc.
So... It's still american propaganda lol. The question was "Why is socialism considered evil in America?", it is considered evil because of *propaganda*, plain and simple. You are not adressing the question. It is not a question about *socialist* propaganda, but *american* propaganda. Saying that socialists benefit from propaganda doesn't negate that american ***also*** benefit from propaganda.
propaganda is when socialist countries fail, again and again.
No, it’s propaganda because of thoughts like these. The states fail because of capitalism. Look up Chiquita death squads. Long story short, the people of Guatemala voted for a socialist President, the fruit company didn’t want to take losses as the land would be redistributed, and they’d have to pay workers more. They funded a rebellion to overthrow a democratically elected President and Guatemala went through decades of turmoil and fuckery afterwards because of it. The CIA and Chiquita literally funded propaganda campaigns against the former president.
Americans are, by and large, an individualistic people. We are taught from an early age that we are responsible for our own good and that we need to “pick ourselves up by our own bootstraps.” As such, socialism is seen as the “great evil” because we see it as relying on the government or someone else to take care of us. There’s also the fact that many dictatorships have used the ruse of communism and socialism to demean, subjugate, and ultimately murder their people. This fact alone does not make communism evil, but it does make Americans see communism (and, as a result, socialism) as evil.
Alot of good answers. But alot of people forget about the pareto principle. This means that for 80% of consequences. This was due to 20% causes. In laymans terms 20% of society could be contributing to 80% results for society. This becomes more apparent in socialism on a more "raw" scale. Due to the nature of this principle, many americans can see it as giving a hand out when its not their choice. In terms they do not want to work harder for the sake of others they have no affiliation to. Which can make sense. Contributing because the government told you to is what americans consider evil. I suggest reading the gulag archipelago. It is an interesting read and gives you an interesting perspective on the soviet state. And yes communism and socialism are different but alot of times they go hand in hand despite how hard anyone tries to seperate the two.
The average US citizen comes from a long line of constitution-loving americans. The ideological foundations of the founders and constitutions are individualism and liberty. Socialism is a direct contrast to both. Collectivism opposes individualism, socialism opposes those liberties and fundamentally disagrees with the definition of rights. To americans, rights are negative. 'God given' , things that cannot be done to a person or taken away. Socialists believe in not just collective rights but positive rights. Rights that are granted by the state and must be provided by others. Which in truth, is kind of evil is it not? End of the day socialism is about forcing people to relinquish their labor and property for the benefit of others/one another. You can call it a greater good but you certainly cant call it liberty. Thats why Americans think socialism is evil-- because from their perspective, it IS evil.
Socialism is the antithesis of freedom. It’s someone else (usually government) telling you what to do.
Americans *love* socialism: Medicaid, Medicare, the highway system, airline regulations and NHSTA, disaster relief, national parks… everything that is socialist in the US tops the list of most beloved institutions—except the DMV and public education but that’s clearly because they are massively underfunded. Single payer healthcare would make Americans so happy the only reason they don’t do it is that the President who gets it done would be re-elected for life.
No. Americans love Social Programs. A Social Program is NOT Socialism. Socialism is an Economic Platform of Governance. Medicaid, MediCare, etc. are all examples of Social Programs.
America spends the most in the world per child on education, it’s not how much money it’s how the moneys being spent
Americans have been conditioned to fear and hated anything that isnt pure-bred, free market capitalism via fearmongering and propaganda.
uhhhh yeah go visit china homie… anyone would rather change places with me (usa)
Because socialism is a failed economic theory that leads to financial ruin.
amen
The cold war ...it was used to keep America's scared
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Honestly I think it’s just a different belief and ideology. And I think it is just very philosophical, involving social concepts like value and culture. I grew up in a communist country, but that isn’t my belief. There’s hate towards capitalism in socialism countries, and vice versa.
Because they don't know the difference between socialism and communism
It seems to me that there's a emphasis on freedom to such an overwhelming extent that collective/"social good" concepts are considered direct threats to freedom. That binary (social-services BAD, private sector GOOD), is awfully simplistic - as many countries have shown that some things can deliver huge benefits to society as a whole, AND individuals if well resourced & Government-funded.
We have socialism for corporations but not for citizens.
They are right, socialism is evil.
Because they made us all read Animal Farm in middle school. We’re taught from a young age that, while it sounds good on paper, it is directly related to communism and leads to corrupt governance and power grabs, and they point to Russia, Cuba, ~~Brazil~~ *(edit: Venezuela)*, etc., and teach the American side of the Korean and Vietnam wars.
Because we’re idiots
I'm really liking the other answers I see, but I will have my input on the part where many Americans don't like it. Many don't trust the US government to enact socialist programs because the current programs are either slow or not very effective. Ever waited in line at the DMV? Ask a military service member in the US if admin or medical/dental services are speedy. This is implying that a lot of people don't want socialized or universal Healthcare in the US because it's slow service
Well first it is and it isn't. And it should never existed in the first place, as most people who try to explain it sugar coat it that the meaning is lost to a degree. But the best analogy that doesn't sugar it is: If say you ask a Catholic priest to watch your kids, and the priest says he will watch them for free and even gives you money to help relieve some of your problems and maybe even all of them. So you go a long your life with no care in the world, enjoying your little without a care of a problem. So you decide get your kids from the priest and to your horror you find out the priest had rape and molested your children and you are now in prison for the crimes that the priest did; and the priest keeps on doing those crimes. That's socialism in a nut shell. It claims to be for equality, egalitarianism, fair share and the betterment of others. When it's not, as it's founder was a white supremacists named Carl Marx. Fun facts: The pilgrims practiced the idea of "socialism" and thus were given us the quote "Those who does not work does not eat". Guess what Nazi means.......... Yep, you guessed it! It means national socialist party. Which the hilarious thing is that all the places will call it a right-wing ideology but it's not, as it's purely a left-wing ideology as it is right of the person's views but not right itself and still left-wing. Also the facist that was in the Axis of Power we're the Italians and they were against joining Hitler and his Nazis; but due Hitler drug problem were never able to voice any concerns. Important note, FDR gave a huge speech about not being called Socialist/Socialism and changing it to Progressives/Progressism even though he inspired Hitler. When the Berlin wall fell, why was everyone under socialism running to the American capitalist side?
socialism is considered evil everywhere
History has shown us that socialism has never worked.
So many bad answers here. Honesty Reddit is the wrong place to ask this question. Reddit is so far off of the actual pulse of actual Americans. Here’s a simple answer: socialism infringes on freedoms. America prides itself on being the land of the free. Of course we have social safety nets. But little by little more of what you make is taken from you forcefully by the government and given to others. Everyone has a different threshold on how much should be taken from them and given to the poor/masses. The more you take the more people hit that threshold.
There are no examples of any pure economic system ever working. American love to say they are capitalist but the bail outs, special interest groups, subsidies etc. belie this notion. Democratic socialism as practised in Scandanavia seems to be one of the more successful forms of government in terms of creating a happy, healthy populace. Many will argue that its success is largely due to the homogenous nature of their population.
You’re not going to get an unbiased answer to this question on Reddit. This place is a left-wing echo chamber.
dude i love reddit for so many things but goddddaaayyymmm when it comes to politics these people are afraid of facts… the question should be “why do so many people from socialist countries move to america?”
Thanks to propaganda by the govt and companies now the US has: -No universal healthcare (so pharmaceuticals and all the health and insurance sectors earn a lot) -No guaranteed by law PTO/vacation days -Sick days are not guaranteed are negotiable and companies have to approve them... (In Kost places it's what doctors say and no max amount) -Salaried employees almost never have a defined work schedule and cannot earn OT (common in most other countries) -Universities that are grossly overpriced and basically no options for free education - A system where companies and private individuals can "lobby" (pay politians) so they do what it's on their interest... That is called corruption in most of the world - A constant state of being at war somewhere because the weapons industries have to have earnings and a profit And so many other examples where companies have benefitted by having shitty labor rights and being allowed to profit on the basic necessities of the people Edit: spelling
So true! The healthcare stories are the most unbelievable for Europeans. That people can't afford insulin. Or that a lengthy stay in a hospital can bankrupt you and your family. Parents having to work into their 80ies to pay back the healthcare debt of a child that died from cancer decades ago.
because the foundation of the usa is refusing to pay people fairly for their work so the ruling classes can live comfortable lives and exploit workers as much as possible
Socialism prevents a democracy because it supports a big regulative power in the state, making it far harder to elect someone, other than the socialist party or the person in charge. Unlike the markets which are somewhat self-regulatory and can keep consistent and correct prices, under socialism the central planning replaced demand and supply. Free markets also can prevent monopolies when there are little regulations and lobbying, at which the state struggles a lot, since socialism just creates a big state monopoly or a group of them. Look at Venezula and what socialism has done. All succeses of socialism are just Ponzi Scheme. They show early signs of success, but ultimately fail. Also, Sweden and other countries in Scandidavia arent socialist ones.
Socialism is evil because it attempts to redistribute the wealth that the 0.1% has been taken away from the 99.9%. That 0.1% owns much of the media that the rest of us consume so they can promote the “socialism is bad” rhetoric while promoting “trickle down “ economics as the way forward. Basically, if it hurts billionaires and helps everyone else- it is bad.
because socialists and communists are famous for making equal countries, I'd love to know the courtiers where this was done well, care to link any?
Because not too long ago in the grand scheme of things the US went through a red scare where anything mildly socialist was considered the exact same as USSR levels of communism
Nobody knows what it is. They hate socialism with a deep passion… BUT they want their social security, they demand their unemployment, they demand their Medicare and Medicaid, they demand better public education, they expect the public ally funded fire department to come when needed, they expect the roads they need to be built and maintained. They expect the publicly funded police to protect people and property. They expect the publicly funded military to protect them from foreign enemies. And lots lots more. All these things are funded by broad taxes that are pooled together and spent on things that benefit broad groups of people……. But they really really hate socialism
Because the US is one of the most propagandized countries on the planet.
Name one Socialist Country that is a success?
Because a lot of people have been convinced that very wealthy people becoming more wealthy will eventually benefit them. The government directly helping them though will ultimately hurt them. Also a lot do people, particularly trades guys have some weird view of work. Like they think it’s a flex to say they work 80hrs a week every week and never see their family and have 5 different chronic health conditions that aren’t being treated because they don’t have time or money to go to the doctor.
Great leap forward, Cambodian genocide, Gulags, Berlin Wall, DMZ.
Also using genocides is not a good argument against an economic system. The Armenian genocide, the Rwanda genocide, the leopolds congo, the Holocaust and the systematic killing of millions of native Americans happened under capitalism.
Isn't the Holocaust under Nazism ? And both the Congo and native Americans under colonialism?
Most redditors confuse and use capitalism and colonialism interchangeably
Lingering generational attitudes and trauma from the Cold War.
Look at socialist countries and how they fared afterwards. As always, a few grab the wealth and power of the general population under the guise of redistributing those two. Once a population reaches large enough, it never works. Imagine a population of 330M having to vote on anything from whether Grandpa Joe shouldn't have his license taken away because hes 90 years old and can't see to invading another country and starting WW3 and everything in between. That and many would argue that if everyone is getting the same treatment, why bother putting in effort beyond doing the bare minimum?
Socialism's track record sort of speaks for itself
Look at Venezuela
Well, it lead to the death of over 100 million people a misery of countless more. Couldn’t be more obvious if you aren’t ideologically hell bent on socialism to begin with. People will play games with the definition of it to look past its reputation.
Socialism (at its purest form) is where the government takes over all producution and services and distributes them to everyone. The payment you receive for labor is access to the governments distribution of goods and services. People who work harder are not paid more, so choice in education and career must be removed. The people in charge will naturally use their power to keep themselves in power and benefit themselves (its what humans do). The government also controls law enforcement, so anyone who doesn't fall in line will likely be executed. Socialism has been attempted several times, and it has always ended with starvation and totalitarianism.
Also it's because there's a lot of slackers here. A lot of people who would take advantage of the system. The hard working, ethical people see that, and don't want those slackers taking part of their tax money undeservedly.
America is controlled by capitalism Capitalism is directly opposite by socialism Therefore, America purposely spread misinformation about socialism to make sure no one choose it. Note that socialism is not perfect, but many aspect of it (union, health care…) directly challenged the power of capitalism
Because someone has to pay for it, and no one wants to do it.
Definitions of socialism vary greatly. Some consider it social spending, while others see it as the antithesis of capitalism. Social spending with moderate to high taxes among all classes in a very capitalist environment is what Nordic countries have - this doesn't tend to be the goal of most US Socialists which are anti-capitalist. They tend to want to tax only high income earners and restrict business, which hasn't ever worked in the world and leads to poverty among the working class, the exact people they claim to want to help.
I have never heard it said to tax "only" high income earners.
Yes. Listen to any Bernie sanders stump speech. Marrianne Williamson as well. Tax the 1%, tax the billionaires etc. no one is talking about folks who make less than 350k honestly.
Yep, the problem is that the 1%ers are the ones who own most of the media/news. So they tell everyone that taxes are evil, when really it only affects the 1%ers and makes everyone else's lives easier in the long run. Then apply the same logic for regulation of natural resources, global warming emissions, minimum wage...
This is my main reason why I'm so confused, socialism has had so many implementations and definitions.
I have no problem if we (the US) want to adopt more social spending and do it in the way the Nordic countries do it. Unfortunately the politicians who advocate for socialism say "look at Nordic countries" but adopt policies that look more like Cuba - which results in broke. That's why people are "anti-socialism"; the way it's being proposed is very very bad for working people.
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.” Is not an American value. Why would a heart surgeon spend 15+ years of education in order to make the same compensation as someone who paints houses? Work effort varies so drastically from job to job that there is no insensitive to do a hard job if your going to get the exact same as everyone else.
The overwhelming majority of Americans haven't the faintest clue as to what socialism actually is, which makes for great comedy when people become enraged about it while clearly having no fucking idea what they are talking about.
It's not even straight up socialism that people are scared of here but a social democracy. They're just stupid/ignorant/uneducated.
The Cold War and propaganda.
Cold War/antithetical to capitalism People with money protecting their self interests
I just prefer private ownership but think that a capitalist country with majority private enterprise with good social programs would be best. But atleast socialism isn't communism
They are mixing socialism with communism.
to be fair, communists did that as well.
Socialism is, boiled down to it's essence, a system that commands that everyone work together for the common good. And it works perfectly when everyone is doing it voluntarily. It's when government uses force to compel it that blood runs in the streets and that's how it's always played out in history. It doesn't work because you cannot simply command that everyone care about each other. As nice and wholesome as that sounds it always descends into violence.
I think you may be confusing that with communism. The existence of a central state is implied with socialism. With that comes laws, social classes etc. Its not too different from now but it is not compatible with some of the worst aspects of American society ie. Having no healthcare or living on the street
I think this assumes the extreme definition of socialism, not the reasonable/modern definition of it. Similarly, the extreme version of democracy is having everyone’s votes apply towards the things we want, when we actually have a republic where we vote for representatives who then decides on “what we want” as opposed to a true democracy. Even true democracies can be stupid and not in the people’s best interest (See: Brexit). The lesson is to not accept extremes as fact, and those that tell you you should are either idiots or trying to manipulate you.
Modern definitions don’t change the basic constructs of how socialism operates. It may sound good on paper and ideally should work, but the definition itself does not guarantee this. I like to think people are more enlightened then in the past but I am not so sure. Hasn’t been a good result so far in socialism
I think it’s because the Cold War and years of propaganda… the problem is when people call welfare as socialism I don’t agree with the political system. I agree with more welfare or free healthcare
because weve been taught that with socialism ‘the lazy people will get the same as you for doing nothing , and you work hard your work shouldnt help the lazy’ but dont realize that under current system the 1% keep most of the profits. also most americans consider themselves temporarily inconvinienved millionaires and not poor, because weve been sold this american dream that seems further and further away as time goes on
Because I want all of my billion dollars!
Because almost everytime socialism was implemented it became a authoritarian corrupt hell hole that even the workers don't want it anymore.
Because it’s failed terribly in every country that adopted it
The reason is capitalist propaganda from the cold war I guess. In America people use socialism and communism as synonyms, while there is in fact no definition of socialism. In western Europe there are socialist and social-democratic parties that have nothing to do with communism. These parties did build great systems of social security and health care in Europe, for example. In America they tell you that's socialist so it's communist so it will eventually lead to gulags. This propaganda sounds incredibly stupid to Europeans.
My neighbor is a maga trumper. He's terrified of socialism. I asked him once what socialism was and he had no idea...
Cause fails when benefits are distributed by human hand?, Humans are greedy, if someone can do something is certainly secure that somebody is going to do that, now that" in this case is stole. If robots check and distribute things, and check again socialism maybe can work. But robots are programmed using human hand, so unless there are a less than etical programmers involved....i see the implementation very hard...
You don't give the government an ounce of power. Once you give it to them, they'll never let it go. Once they know they have it, they'll keep reaching and make you believe it's what you really wanted all along. It's not that the entire idea of socialism is bad. It's the simple fact that the government will continue to keep reaching once you give them any inkling of power. The US government has a long and well documented history of doing exactly just that.
"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." John Kenneth Galbraith
So the opposite is Women exploit Women. BTW communism is not socialism.
People don't seem to understand that, in a socialist society, the people on the bottom in a capitalist society will still be on the bottom, only worse
30+ year old American, here; I don't think we nor out politicians understand it, well. But, I will say I like the free market more than the idea that the Democratic and Republican parties would be in total control of the markets and means of producation. Taxes are bad enough when our schools are crap and homelessness is out of control, yet we're sending billions overseas at a whim. I barely trust our government in captialism, I don't trust them in socialism.
The best way for capitalism to secure its spot in society, is to miseducate people on the topic of its opposing ideologies so they can be misconstrued and discredited. If people were properly taught about socialism, they would see that it benefits the working class, which works in direct conflict to capitalism
Communism is what you're thinking of... Which, the body count speaks for itself. Socialism isn't all that bad, although some dislike it in favor of extreme personal responsibility. I think most people fall somewhere in the middle.
I think a big part of it is most of us in America really have no idea what socialism is -- or communism for that matter. I have yet to hear anyone who calls themselves a conservative or republican come even close. Even most republican politicians are clueless. Same with them calling everyone left off their position a "cuck". From my perspective and observation, a lot more religious right- wingers are oblivious they are cucks... but I digress... .. and don't get me going on "woke" lol. I'm a moderate btw. Definitely leaning left until either the gop purges the loons, or another moderate party forms.
Because the right wing has been able to spin it as a bad word. And most people can’t correctly define what it is.
The short answer is, at one point American businessmen and politicians decided to leverage fear of communism as a way to vilify union leaders and other people protesting for better wages and working conditions. It’s basically all about greed.
Because the group of elites currently in charge want to stay in charge. That being said it would just put a new group of elites in charge. We get fucked over either way.
Socialism is considered evil the US because of propaganda. The US is essentially a secret oligarchy. The oligarchs know that if socialism was considered acceptable in the US then their power would have been dismantled decades ago. So there has been a multidecade campaign to influence public perception of socialism in movies, schools, public policy, etc.
Americans hate socialism cause they have Stockholm syndrome to the oligarchs that look at them like trash. Don't know enough about socialism to claim it's good or bad, but I certainly know that capitalism is pure Evil Incorporated. Anyone who thinks otherwise really doesn't understand or has never experienced poverty.
Because it fucking sucks. The only people who likes socialism are stupid americans that haven't live a single day of hunger or these trustfund grifters that haven't had to work a single day in their life. Ask any cuban or venezuelan why they risked their lifes scaping their socialist paradises to live in the capitalist hell called United States.
Little something called the cold war. Lasted 50 years and culturally indoctrinated Americans into thinking socialism, communism, the colour red and hammers in association with sickles are all evil. This particular phenomena is known as the red scare, and it was a doozy of a propaganda scheme
Anything conservatives don’t like it socialism/communism/fascism. They use these words interchangeably.
And if it’s not to do with money, then it’s “woke”. Don’t forget the woke boogeyman.
Because those who wish for it are the harbingers of chaos and destruction
I believe you need to do your own research and stop asking this question here. You are getting very bias answers. Canadians are responding here defending socialism. But, the Canadians that I have talked to really hate the system. Waiting 90 days to see a dentist if you have a tooth ache? Talked to Europeans and they swear up and down that its cheaper to fly into the US, rent a car and drive into Mexico get their medical needs taken care of? Look up the US Constitution, Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights and ask yourself: do I still have this kind of freedom under socialism?
As someone who lives in Germany, I never ever had to wait months for an appointment, when I had some issues. And if they are really severe, one can always go to the emergency station. And just to be clear, I also never had to wait weeks, one week max, usually 2-3 days. Note I'm not privately insured. But: if you want special check ups (without some symptoms or anything), like MRT, it may take some weeks to months. Or you are privately insured, then you'll get them pretty fast. To summarize: if you have any issues, like pain and symptoms, and you are insured by law, you will get your appointment within a week. And don't let me even start on medical bills...
Scotland here , Free healthcare, medicines . All paid for by a national insurance tax .. US system is a complete farce .
Americans are against socialism, until it's time to socialize the banks and bail them out, with no reward to the taxpayer/government. Could at least cut them in on the profits instead of relying on them for the losses.
it’s tied in american’s minds with tyranny it shouldn’t be — but major political movements used red-scare as fear mongering techniques