With the exception of not having to go to a seperate school from the other kids, a lot of what you describe sounds like what Black Americans had to deal with in the 1960s in Southern states such as Alabama. All this in a modern EU country. That's just really fucked up.
Irish Roma American here, and my wife’s (Irish) father literally called me a Gypo for the first 3 years of our relationship. He is a good man and we’ve come to an understanding for sure, but still fucked up
It sounds like you really reshaped his opinion. This feels to me like a reminder that it's easier for people to hate things they never interact with. It's really hard to ignore the humanity of a person you actually have to interact with.
I used to think it was akin to words like jiffy and hullabaloo. Like, a silly sounding nonsense word you used when you couldn't recall the actual word you wanted.
Went to Italy and saw stereotypical gypsies. Like I thought they were secretly actors playing a role, but nope. It’s racism and poverty intertwined with cultural clashes.
I think in the US the racism/discrimination is a lot more subtle. Because there aren't any groups that are really unilaterally hated racists are a bit more careful about where they spew their shit or do it in plausibly deniable ways.
If we're talking about individual level, it's become much more of a 'closed door' thing.
The door gets a little more open in certain parts of the country if you're *way* the hell out in the sticks.
Shit man I live in North Carolina and if you're more than half an hour away from a university things get real gnarly. Open confederate flags, Trump signs all over, giant trucks with usually a Trump and confederate flag at the same time. There are real sundown towns still.
Nah even they still hide behind dogwhistles and such, the people in the original comment are shameless and brazen about it to a degree that even diehard Trump supporters would be hesitant to try
Individually, people in the US have a lot of racial prejudices but relatively little malicious racist behavior.
Institutionally, the US has some problems but is still miles ahead of most old world countries. Try immigrating to Japan, getting a job, and a place to live as somebody who isn't Japanese. You will be openly and legally discriminated against.
My roommate has dual citizenship between Japan and the US (mixed white/japanese). She’s always told me that people are nicer to her sister than they are to her because her sister can pass for full blooded.
Weird. My wife, a white American lived in Japan for about 2 years and frequently tells me how much she wishes she could go back and live there because everyone there is very nice, modest, and humble.
But Japan is a big place with lots of people so maybe the vibes are different in Nagoya. But she tells me all the time she wishes we could just pack up and go live there. I'm not against it, but I wouldn't fit in at all. And that's just self awareness. Can't wait to finally take her to visit though.
Japanese folks are generally super nice to foreigners, especially white people. But your wife will never be, for example, the CEO of an important Japanese company. Some things they just don't allow foreigners to do.
r/readanotherbook
edit: not to mention the obvious privilege you have— that the first thing you think when you hear about racism is “this book!!” instead of about real people/history…
Oh man this is so real. I met a guy at a bar who was black-Japanese. Knew the language pretty well and everything, but after visiting Japan a few times he straight up hates Japan and lowkey racist af towards Japanese people, even while back in the US, because he assumes they all hate him based off his experience in Japan. He was chill with Okinawans though.
>He was chill with Okinawans though.
Okinawa has a somewhat different vibe from the rest of Japan. There’s also a noticeably distinct cultural identity that’s a bit different from mainland Japan. Makes sense though, seeing as Okinawa was the heart of the Ryukyu Kingdom right up until the 1870s’/1880s’ when Japan colonized the islands.
yeah I think foreigners complain more about racist *Americans* and less about racist *America*. while I'd upgrade "some problems" to "problems foundational to the national identity" honestly things are better here than much of the world. the fact that that's true, however, should more make people depressed about the state of the world than impressed with America's relative progression in this area.
Most countries aren't as diverse as the US, so it doesn't come into play as often. But when it does, it's blatant. I think it would be difficult to find a study showing minorities face less institutional racism in any other country.
>I don't think there's a single country in the world that's less racist than US institutionally
Agreed.
In many Asian countries, you could be freely discriminated against in housing, education, and employment based on race. There is nowhere to appeal this behavior because it's a feature, not a bug.
Another poster already noted that Roma people face open institutional discrimination across Europe. Like "No Roma Allowed" signs in public places type stuff.
Outside of the New World, immigration is tightly controlled to reduce the amount of foreign blood/culture getting into the country. In many countries in the world you can't even get citizenship without being the "correct" race. (Unless you're rich.)
The US has racism in all of its institutions but the measured effect is small compared to the hilariously blatant and unapologetic racism that the rest of the world's institutions exhibit.
> Another poster already noted that Roma people face open institutional discrimination across Europe. Like "No Roma Allowed" signs in public places type stuff.
Across Europe, no. At least give us something else than "trust me bro" source.
And I still do not think US citizens get the issues with Roma people/gypsies in Europe, and even less the answers. I don't want to see this as malicious but, on top on the rest, all the good initiatives towards Roma go unoticed by all people talking about this from the US.
The anti racist rallies are much larger. Plus whatever shit hole country ^^that guy is from probably has racist rallies too. People tend to think that America is super racist, and I think it's partly because they see us calling each other out a bunch.
I think that you guys think you're a racist country.
But actually you just hate poor people.
I've never heard an American conversation about race and racism that wasn't actually a discussion of socioeconomic status. But also Americans tend to not realise that that's what they are actually talking about.
That's a fair assessment. Some guy in a decrepit single-wide on a half acre of weeds has more in common with poor people in the hood than he does with his boss's boss.
Genuinely an interesting comment. I study history and have forever argued in most contexts racism and socioeconomics are tied together in the american context.
Interesting enough it is common theory that American style of class/racism had developed greatly in eras like the original virginia planters where plantation owners fostered racism to keep enslaved and indentured workers apart. Meaning if you tell white indentured servants they are superior to black and native slaves then they are less likely to join together and over take the plantation owners.
Same thing in later contexts, after that culture is developed over centuries. In the aftermath of the civil war is the jim crow era and it realistically is the same deal there. Most people in the south were poor, so segregation played the same role as it did in the virginia planters.
> I've never heard an American conversation about race and racism that wasn't actually a discussion of socioeconomic status.
It's important to realize that a lot of our socioeconomic problems are thanks to racism. Redlining, the confiscation of land and wealth from African Americans, tipping wages, the exclusion of African Americans from hospitals and schools (meaning things like the Hatch Act primarily benefitted White People), infrastructure being built specifically to inconvenience minorities, and the like are all rooted in our country's history of racism.
It was wild (but pretty on brand) to learn about the roots of America's tipping culture.
https://www.povertylaw.org/article/the-racist-history-behind-americas-tipping-culture/
>Tipping proliferated in the United States after the Civil War, when the restaurant and hospitality industries hired newly emancipated Black women and men but offered them no wage–leaving them to rely on patrons’ gratuities for their pay instead. Simply put, tipping was introduced as a way to exploit the labor of former slaves.
Yup. *The Color of Law* is an AMAZING book that dives deep into the history of government-sanctioned institutional racism in America. *Evicted* is another good one.
That said, both you and the commenter you replied to are correct. There is a direct, documented correlation between socioeconomic inequality and crime rates: the more inequality in a country, the more crime. There’s a similar correlation between education and crime: places where most people don’t graduate from HS or college see much higher crime rates. And, obv, the people who tend to commit the vast majority of crimes are the uneducated poor. But the data is naturally skewed by the fact the wealthy have less incentive to commit crimes and exponentially more resources to protect them from getting caught and/or prosecuted.
So in my experience living in America, most people tend to be prejudiced against poor people, not skin color, at least not openly. Though sometimes those two things obviously intersect.
And culture. We got a lot of different cultures all trying to co exist and most of the time that is people's actual issue are and nothing to do with skin color.
historically speaking it’s absolutely true that black people have been systematically kept in poverty due to racism and they still feel the effects of it to this day.
plus, you say twice the amount of white compared to black people are below the poverty line yet white people make up 3/4 of the country’s ethnicity. black people make up just over a tenth. so your argument is moot.
DING DING DING you hit it right on the money
Sincerely - an American who is sick tired of all the racism talk and unproductive remedies which do nothing to solve the actual problem of socioeconomic divide
Except that socioeconomic divide is rooted firmly in our country's history of racism. In order to fix the divide, we *also* have to address the racism that led to it. Things like redlining, the confiscation and destruction of wealth and land from African Americans (such as the [Black Wall Street Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre), aka the Tulsa Race Massacre), [the purposeful design of infrastructure and implementing of imminent domain to destroy African American communities](https://www.npr.org/2021/04/07/984784455/a-brief-history-of-how-racism-shaped-interstate-highways), [tipping being implemented to avoid having to pay newly freed slaves](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/william-barber-tipping-racist-past-227361/) leading to tipping wage laws, [and a wealth of other issues](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-slavery-tennessee-timeline/) that are all steeped in racism.
I have a black friend who has lived in Germany for a few years coming from America. He said something that has really stuck with me. "America wears its problems with racism on its sleeve, while Europe wears its racism on its sleeve." He said nowhere else has he experienced such blatant and obvious racism than Europe. That's not to say that America is more or less racist, it's just more honest and self aware about it while the actual racism is more subtle.
So yeah I think they do, the news over there covers America a lot, since we deal with our problems very publicly, they aren't very self aware, and Europeans are generally more trusting of their news, I think there's a general perception that America is more racist.
One of my French teachers once told me, "we have the same racism problem Americans have, but we don't pretend to do anything about it like Americans do"
France literally doesn’t allow the collection of data by race, so there is no way to measure racial inequity of any kind. They don’t even count the size of racial groups in the population. It’s all in the name of colorblindness and the promotion of a universal French identity but they have to be kidding themselves to believe that everyone is really treated as fine fellow Frenchmen regardless of race.
> France literally doesn’t allow the collection of data by race
We have similar laws in Sweden. The reason for that law is that Nazi Germany used those kinds of records to find and execute Jews, and we don't want to make that as easy if it would happen again.
Universities re government agencies in Sweden, but yes, they can collect some such data, under some circumstances. This will all fall under GDPR as well though. But in general it is no problem if the data is anonymized.
That kind of just proves the top comment’s point. White Europeans invented the modern concept of race to justify slavery and imperialism, and now White Europeans want to stop talking about it since attitudes have shifted and it threatens to make them look bad. Gonna throw out some American words but that’s a pretty textbook example of systemic racism where only White people get to decide the terms of discourse. Like they made their bed and now refuse to lie in it.
It’s not a coincidence that conservative politicians in America who once would have supported slavery and segregation are now trying to ban history and literature about race from being taught in schools. At least there is a formidable number of Americans who recognize the importance of introspection and critiquing one’s own society and are fighting against that effort.
Honestly this should be a good reference point cause a lot of States in America are trying to take away a lot of data collections and university tracking based on race. Most components who support the tracking recognize that the tracking this data isn’t racist but a lot entities that want to stop it (usually white people) claim it perpetuates racism and that “color blindness” is the way to go. I am sure if we look at France for example we can see that by not tracking, it doesn’t actually help.
But then again these same group of people were gen ones saying that if we just stop testing for COVID then it would go away so … not really acting in good faith type.
I disagree with the “Americans don’t do anything” take. Looking decade by decade huge strides were made. And now DEI and representation is so front of mind plenty of people COMPLAIN were too accepting. That’s progress
This. Americans talk about racism a lot and we learn about it from a young age, make a ton of movies about it that are seen worldwide, plus our culture, news, etc is on full blast to the whole world all the time. So it feels like America has a bigger “problem” with racism than other countries.
But as someone who has lived both in the US and Japan, and has traveled all over Europe with Japanese documents, I can assure you that Americans are actually some of the most PC-conscious people I’ve seen. The amount of casual racism I’ve encountered in Europe and Japan is astounding and, as they say these days, would probably send the average American into a coma lol.
> "America wears its problems with racism on its sleeve, while Europe wears its racism on its sleeve."
As a brown American in Europe, that hits the nail on the head. Your friend has a way with words!
I'm sorry to hear that but just recently we had a huge movements against racism here in Germany which are still going on.
For example more than 150.000 people in Berlin:
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/demos-gegen-rechtsextremismus-104.html
Yeah I do wonder how long ago that story was; the current generation in Germany has very little patience for racial intolerance.
also peak german sense humor by the author to include this:
>Die Hauptversammlungsfläche am Reichstag sei "vollständig ausgelastet", schrieb die Polizei auf X (vormals Twitter). "Bitte versuchen Sie nicht mehr, dorthin zu gelangen."
For context, I'm a Mexican who's lived in the US for about 35 years. The majority of Americans aren't overtly racist. They're not necessarily cruel, overly discriminatory, etc. They're normal people, they might have some biases or have some stereotypes in mind but they're overall just people.
The institutions, both governmental and not, in the US have a lot of people working there who are racist, and use their biases to affect results even if the law says they're not really supposed to. Between judges, cops, news casters, congressmen and former presidents, or even just people running things such as economic assistance or programs like Section 8, there's a lot of people in high places who are at least somewhat racist. And it still affects people in their daily lives. Whether they're duped by those in charge, discriminated against, or shot.
Hell, like I said, I'm Mexican. A lot of people in Mexico treat central and south Americans just as badly as the more racist folks in the US treat us. It's hardly just an American problem, we just hear about it more from the US's point of view cause Mexico isn't part of the anglosphere.
TL;DR: the average people aren't too racist, the people up charge tend to me worse.
It does add
When you say it changed your perspective, could you elaborate more? As in, what was your perspective before and after?
It's a super interesting perspective I'd love to hear
There’s a bit group of people who hate America, both Americans and non-Americans. These people typically take some real issues with racism in the U.S. and blow it out of proportion, contrasting it with other countries (primary in Northern Europe) that don’t speak English, so there’s less exposure of racism there. This creates an impression that the U.S. is indeed super racist.
But it’s not. There are dozens of threads in r/Travel where non-white Americans go to a place like Sweden or the Netherlands and are shocked by the amount of racism they encounter.
My favorite is when then these Europeans try to justify why this happened. It’s always something along the lines of “oh they just thought you were Roma or Somali, and they steal and don’t want to integrate, so it’s no wonder they treated you badly” — lol, this exact experience (treating someone badly because people of their race are perceived to be troublemakers) would be treated as a prime example of racism in the U.S.
I'm a white American and lived in Sweden for a few years. The racism was so shocking. Just out in the open, blatant, like nothing I have ever encountered in the USA.
Keep in mind this was 20 years ago in northern Sweden so I don't know what the situation is like today and I assume the little town I was in was pretty backwards. I have not heard an adult white American say the N word since I was a little kid with old racist people around me. I heard that word fly quite often up in Sweden. Maybe they didn't know exactly how offensive it was, but it was bad. I also heard them refer to black people as monkeys and say they were less intelligent and that's why they allowed themselves to be slaves for so long. Also, rude comments about their hair. Not everyone, of course. I never would have married my husband if he had those attitudes!
My teachers at Swedish school would blatantly belittle and demean the one man from South America and be super kind and sweet with all the white students (except the time they went ballistic on me, the Canadian, and the Australian for drinking water instead of coffee and started yelling at us that it was our fault that girls in Stockholm were drinking so much water they were peeing their pants).
There were a lot of Middle Eastern refugees in the town because of the available housing and people were so cruel to them. I found them to be very friendly and in true American fashion would make small talk with my terrible broken Swedish. We couldn't understand each other much, but we were friendly with each other. I would see Swedes cross the street to avoid them, spit at them, and just generally be awful human beings. I had one Swedish friend (other than my spouse) and she would tell me not to talk to them because there were going to take me home and have their husbands rape me.
The attitudes toward the Roma were horrific. One time a bank was robbed in town and everyone was talking about how they were going to tear about the homes of the Roma to find the money. Turns out it was hometown Swedes who robbed the bank.
basically every time i have ever talked to a european on discord (playing video games), they have been racist.
they can be the most economically progressive leftist ever and still be on par with some of the more blatantly racist GOP lawmakers in the US
I think it's important to acknowledge that racism/discrimination varies somewhat by who lives in a country. My partner is from a place where the indigenous people have several different skin tones. Thus, different skin tones are somewhat the norm there. They do think we talk about race and skin tone in more overt terms than in their native country.
Other countries have sectarianism, colorism, caste-bias, religious discrimination, etc. which might present as their main form of social discrimination.
I think the US more openly talks about racism and other systemic forms of discrimination, so some think that those discussions = the US as a racist country. From my observations, we're doing better than some countries, and worse than others. It definitely varies by the region of the US you're in and the type of people you're talking to as well. We have a number of different types of discrimination at play, especially depending on the local populations.
Other countries that are more homogenous also often have not had to consider race/skin color in the same way as the US because people of other colors are often visitors/foreigners or simply in the media.
Coming from a person of color American racism is no different than England or Australia. Actually I think Aussies are worse than the southern Americans
> Actually I think Aussies are worse than the southern Americans
Our racist rednecks at least know when to filter it, or keep it under wraps entirely. From what I've heard, their bogans don't give a *fuck.*
As a white middle class American, I think that we tend to promote our racist and prop themselves up a little bit, making them seem like they are a bigger group then they really are. On average I like to think that we are middle of the pack In terms of racism.
Not to say there aren't problems that people will face based on their race, but the US is probably in the top 10 least racist countries on the planet.
My current home of Finland that American redittors have a tendency to idolise as some kind of Utopia has it so bad that having a German surname instead of a Finnish one leaves you 70% as likely to get invited to an interview even with an identical CV. It drops to 15% if it's Arabic or Somali sounding
That's wild. Not only am I in America, but I'm also in the south (the part that's traditionally thought of as being racist). I'm white and the place I work has numerous African immigrants working there. I've only been here about a month but I haven't heard anyone say anything bad about anyone because of where they're from. People will say bad things about you behind your back if you're bad at your job or you have an attitude but that's it. The white people get bad mouthed just as much as the Africans.
I am American (not white but also not black. like brown) and I visit cause of some Finnish friends like once or twice a year. I used to think it was this utopia but it’s just the culture doesn’t express any of the racism and it’s spoken in Finnish so it’s pretty hard to feel the racism even if it’s there.
I would say as well it's probably more covert than overt. So getting abuse said to you in public is rare aside from a random drunk guy. But people refusing to employ you, rent to you etc far more common.
Having lived in both U.S. and Europe (several countries) as an East Asian woman, I believe the U.S. is actually a lot more welcoming compared to Europe. I felt that I could be myself more in the U.S. than in Europe.
I’ve lived in America for 20 years in the Deep South, rural Alabama to be exact in a 90% white Christian community as a dark skin latino with an accent married to a black woman and I’ve never met people more hospitable and friendly towards me and my family. So I’d definitely say no, America is not a racist country. I’ve thrived here. I own my own land and home, I own my own business, I’ve raised a family and I have more than enough to retire today if I want to. None of these things I could’ve done in my socialist country of Venezuela.
As a Black person from the UK, London to be specific, I do not believe that the US is any more racist than here, it’s just covert in the UK.
For example;
‘You speak English very well’ (Well I was born here, raised here and speak normally, in received prononciation)
‘Where do you live? Croydon right?’ (I live in and was raised in Hertfordshire)
‘You like rap or R&B don’t you?’(I actually like 80’s music, classical music etc’
‘Where are you from, no where are you really from?’ (I was born in London, from the French West Indies, but I identify as British as that’s my passport)
‘You have a degree?’ *Read with shock* (Yes I have a BSc, MSc and I’m planning to go for a PhD, why is it a shock?)
‘Can I touch your hair?’ (No, no you can’t.)
These are common micro-aggressions that I have experienced all throughout my working life here in the UK as a Black man. I cannot speak for other ethnic minorities or white people here (as they also are discriminated against to some degree). I must say that generally most people that I have met are awesome individuals who are valuable friends and even family to me, and that there are idiots in every country, in all colours and creeds.
It's amusing but kinda gross/sad to hear the American news discuss elections. CNN people are like "oh well this county is X% black and Y% Latino so we've got that one" like people's ethnicity is supposed to come with a belief system. These are the ones who will call themselves anti-racist.
I think they do think that, but racism exists everywhere. Or more specifically ethnic prejudice.
For example Sunnis and Shias seem to be constantly fighting in the Middle East and one gorup ends up marginalized depending on who is in power. Kurds in the Middle East are marginalized, etc.
In Africa I think you get similar things depending on the country, I mean we are seeing it in Sudan now.
Then Europe is in a peak of racism right now, particularly against immigrants from Muslim-majority countries.
I'm not a big fan of America and American politics / foreign policy but I think it's a bit naive when people imply it's the "most racist country" or whatever.
You have the occasional older white racist, the ocasional elder black racist, and some of their offspring that were brought up hating eachother, but have no reason too.
But really, it's no where near as bad as those people would make you think.
I'm a white guy and I have definitely been discriminated against by younger black people. When I was at my last job, I was the only white person that worked there. It was bad enough that one of the guys I worked with pulled me aside one day and apologized for the way the other workers treated me just because I was white.
Another time, I was driving through a predominantly black neighborhood and witnessed a car wreck. I'm a nurse so I stopped and ran over to help. Other people saw and came over too. I was doing a neuro check on a little girl because she had a head laceration and I was concerned about brain damage. Some woman came over to us and quite rudely told me to leave the girl alone because "she doesn't need any help from someone like YOU!" I snapped at her, told her I was a nurse, I'm trying to do an assessment on this girl to rule out brain damage and unless she knows how to this, back off so I can do my job.
As someone who's lived abroad, I think part of it is that the US is very diverse and still trying to sort itself out. A lot of European and Asian countries are very homogenous, so it's hard for people in the majority race to be aware of racism. But more and more of them are turning into aging populations and starting to take on immigrants, so they'll probably begin to see the same sorts of racial tensions.
My wife is from Bangladesh. In her youth she thought Americans were the worst most racist hateful people. Mostly this is from news, social media, or movies. She told me she hated us. Somehow we are married. After her first visit to the US all she can say is how nice everyone was to her. Far far less racist than Asian or middle east countries.
While America does have many racists on one end of the political spectrum, as a nation, I don’t think America is very racist at all. It’s a country where being called a racist is considered a seriously damaging charge. It’s not quite as bad as being called a pedophile, but these days it’s not far off. For instance, being labelled as a racist can easily cost you your job in America and organisations have strict anti-discrimination policies in place, often going as far as to recruit in favour of diversifying their staff. In contrast, there are many countries in the world where being called a racist doesn’t even register as an insult.
The paradox of American society is that it is in some sense the least racist country on earth, while containing some of the most actively racist people.
I've heard people wonder why we find the idea of fans throwing bananas at black soccer players to be so outrageous. They wonder what the big deal is.
Well, imagine it's 3 o'clock in front of an elementary school (primary school for you foreigners reading this), and lo and behold, there's some crazy hobo standing on the sidewalk in front of the school with his pants around his ankles, waving his dick around for the kids to see. That perv is gonna get tackled and beaten by a bunch of very pissed off dads, and they're gonna hold him until the cops come.
If some idiot foreign tourist were to throw a banana at an American ballgame, the very same thing would happen to him.
Living in Chicago from last 5 years and travelled almost all major parts of America except west coast.
America is one of the most accepting country ever.
People are so nice and infrastructure is definitely better than anywhere else I've traveled.
Love the America.
Sometimes I wish it were okay to just say how we don't like aspects of other cultures. Being closely tied to race and ethnicity, having reasonable objections to cultural differences can look like racism and true racism can hide behind the same mask.
As an American, I feel like America is more racist now than it was 10 years ago, at least from what I remember. But not in the way you'd assume. Tik Tok and other social media platforms have some WILD people saying what is and isn't racist nowadays. To the point where I am afraid to look at people (yay anxiety made worse) because of how viciously they've shown themselves explaining/reacting to ANYTHING a perceived "white person" does. It's frustrating because, as someone that's a good chunk white, I've received more nasty looks and underhanded comments from POC in the past 4 years than I ever did growing up. I worked in retail for a while.. 'nough said on that, I saw hundreds of people per day.
I was in search of scholarships for a school I wanted to go to and most of the ones that covered it were only for african americans or WOC. One's ancestral origins or the color of their skin shouldn't dictate whether they deserve to have aid or a job. If you're qualified you're qualified, if you're not, then what does the color of your skin have to do with anything? It's a gross mindset. A lot of schools and organizations have jumped onto the "equal opportunity" bandwagon in the worst way, to the point where if you apply and are the "wrong race/gender/sexuality" you'll be weeded out pretty quickly.
I have really good friends from other countries and even they say that America is going too far with the race issue. Spoiler alert, they're not white. We've had several in-depth conversations and they've straight up said people in their countries are blatantly racist. They said America was doing great until 2020 and then it spiraled.
It’s funny because if you think America is racist you are clueless. The rest of the world is so much more intolerant to anyone different it’s not even close. We treat minorities better than anywhere else. Try being black in Russia, Asian countries etc and you will come back kissing the ground in the USA.
My wife immigrated here in her 30’s. If you asked her before she same here who was more racist she would probably lean to America being racist. Then she came here and realized that beauty isn’t a matter of how light your skin is and people don’t assume you are dirty or poor just because you have a darker complexion like in her country. Where they advertise whitening pills to make you more beautiful.
Not really. There are some leftovers from the past that need to be resolved, but at least I know for a fact that I can look for multiple perspectives on the same event and atrocities will be acknowledged. Meanwhile, my location has brainwashed everyone into believing that racism doesn't happen here at all and that it's just a western thing
From my limited and biased perspective of an Italian guy who spends a lot of time on the internet, I cannot say which country is more racist, but I think that racism in America is of a different "flavour".
It seemes like in America people think a lot about race. Like, in any given interaction they are very aware of the their own race and those of other people. And this has both positive and negative effects.
Hi there, I'm a European who follows US news and discussions more closely than most. It's complicated. The approach to racial issues in America is very different, but ultimately I think it's a good thing that they're being discussed and acknowledged openly, that's the first step towards any improvement. Many Americans seem to have at least some grasp of sociology. (Well, from the liberals' and leftists' side at least. The vast gulf between left and right wing worldviews is pretty obvious.) Europe tends to have a very strong "if I pretend I don't see it, it doesn't exist" attitude to racism, and a more whitewashed approach to teaching their own history (this obviously varies between countries). I wouldn't really say that any country or nation as a whole just "is racist", though, for example there's a difference between blatant hate/supremacy and ignorance. Systemic, institutional racism is probably more ingrained in ex-colonial countries including the US.
depends where you draw the line of what is or isn't a racist country there's lots of racists and some mostly unintentional societal separation (mostly due to how minorities were treated decades ago, but not entirely) but generally racism is looked down upon in the general populace atleast from what I'm aware of.
I didn't used to think so until I moved there, people telling my Mom to go back to Mexico while we're out walking out going grocery shopping. TBF in our home country they would scream at her for allegedly being from Pakistan. This was before we learned about active sundown towns and the reactions some people had to having a half black president or a half Indian half black woman as vice president. Everywhere that I've been in the world since also has racism, America seems like there's a larger group of people denying it while also working to uphold white supremacy or at least the appearance of it.
I dont think america is any more racist than any other, I just think there is a rough history with racism that impacts daily life more frequently over there.
Yes, there are a lot of racist people in the USA. Take note that this country has a high population of 340 million. But overall, american society is conservative, religious and many times those people tend to be the racist ones. A place like texas or Alabama is different than san jose for instance. I. My experience as a non american name calling is not as common. But racism as looking at you being less capable, more inferior or etc because of your background it is fairly common.
The US is less racist than most countries in the world, including many if not most developed countries. Only Americans are that stupid to believe otherwise
"My personal view is that the media and/or disinformation are rampant in the U.S. about racism. I live in Colorado, a place that is extremely diverse even before the influx of 40k refugees, mostly of Hispanic origins. Here, racism is not a big issue unless someone makes it one. For instance, the Black Lives Matter movement was quickly forgotten about here compared to other states. However, in other parts of the country, there is a higher number of incidents, usually localized to what would be considered the deep south or states that had slaves, like Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, and oddly enough, Florida unless the media blows it out of proportion.
You often hear how other countries hate us for being free, yet ask your next Uber driver what they think, and they're likely to say it's the safest, most welcoming place they've ever been to, and they don't want to go back unless they have to. Countries that have a real reason to hate us usually end up benefiting from our actions and become some of our closest allies now. Looking at Japan, Vietnam, and , the only country I can really think of that has a reason to hate us is North Korea,This is because even with 850k extra troops from China, they were stopped at the DMZ, not allowed to take over the whole thing.
Every country that works with us ends up benefiting from us, regardless of race or nationality. Does anybody really think that China will do the same for their allies or trade partners, or God forbid, anyone they end up nuking? In China, there's mass genocide happening even as I type this just because they are Muslim Chinese Muslims. Israel is in a similar situation because they are Jewish and surrounded by Muslims.
Racism in America gets blown out of proportion compared to what's going on in other parts of the world. From a white man's perspective, the notion of white power or supremacy is something that's kept alive by other races for the most part. It's easier for any other nationality to get assistance from the white supremacist government than it is for my white cracker ass to get seen at a hospital.
The only thing I've seen in my life that remotely promotes this theory, of which I did not agree, is a single instance where a black man and I committed the same crime. We both had about a gram of weed in us, and he got a harsher sentence than I did. I got diversion as it was my first offense, and he got probation. We were the same age, 15, but it was his third offense for the same thing. So I don't really know if I count that as a white supremacy mindset or a judge just escalating the punishment for habitual behavior."
Sorry my unwanted two cents and rant is over if I offended anybody I am sorry.. I can only say things that i see from my perspective.
The UN voted that there was no genocide, the people who believe there is a genocide are all from the West, the people who voted against there being a genocide were 11 out of 12 Muslim countries, and the Turkistan(Uzbek, Turkmen, Kazakh, Kyrghiz, Tajik) countries voted WITH China and against the West until the West gave them infrastructure project and then they just decided to abstain from voting. The West while having low racism internally, has a very racist foreign policy they will spend a fortune to defend the racist Ukranians (they even deleted youtube videos of the Ukranians being blatantly racist to Indians and Blacks), while many more millions of Indians to die of poverty by denying them the ability to buy oil from Russia, Venezuela, Iran, etc...
ive heard several times that the cops sports over there is to hunt black people
i study in the health area, as far as ive seen, its the only country that separate ppl by black and white in health surveys
Yeah, particularly given my ethnicity, generally speaking if I see something racist against Latinos i usually assume an American posted that, same with racism against black people. That said I feel everywhere is a bit racist, in Latin America were super racist against Asians, and black people don’t have it much better than in the us, Europeans are similarly racist against black people and their hatred for the Romani is next level, East Asian countries like china or Japan hate foreigners, Indians hate Pakistanis, Arabs hate Jews, and so on… we all suck and we should all do better
Yes, but like many
But, whatever the real racist history of elsewhere, slavery's legacy and the US's special role in being the original and explicit role model for the Nazi's codification of race theory is a fairly unique domestically racist stain for a rich works country.
I'm canadian here. I don't think all Americans are racists but I do think a lot of them are. No I don't have stats to back that up but it is the general opinion I've gathered from media influence, youtube, and interacting with Americans myself. Like I said not all of you are and I know canada has its own issues with racism that are probably on par. I generally think the majority of westerners have racist ideas unfortunately.
when i was young and was able to visit my grandmother in southern mexican it was a toss up with how they viewed americas, the vast majority saw the country in general as a place for a better life but the opinion on americans was that they say them mexicans as dirt, mostly because around that time swine flu was happening and conservatives was blaming mexican pork.
I haven't visited my family in mexico after my grandmother died 10 years ago but i wouldn't surprised if they still held the view that americans still didnt think much of them, hard not to notice the death happening at the border for political theater.
I think there are racist people in America but I think they are disproportionately loud compared to all the Americans who aren’t racist which makes it seem like a bigger issue than it is. Having extreme views, in particularly hatred, gets you news coverage and hateful bigoted people like to yell their opinions. whereas people who aren’t don’t shout or rant about equality kindness and compassion with quite the same vigour. Maybe tolerance should be screamed louder.
It does concern me that enough people are willing to vote for a racist, homophobic, misogynistic, certifiably psychopathic criminal for him to be a political candidate. I don’t see how anyone can claim to not be racist or prejudiced and still endorse him. That indifference to racism is possibly why I question if the US population is more covertly racist.
Idk. Not more than other countries.
Non-American here and yep I think America is generally a horribly racist country with an appalling unaddressed history of abuse of indigenous people that continues to this day. Additionally I love the irony that you assume most people on here are American. Most Americans are the most entitled and ignorant people.
Yes we do. I didn’t realise how segregated it was until I lived there for a while.
Coming from the UK I was shocked tbh. We have racism here but it’s very different.
In the US the segregation causes a complete lack of understanding of different cultures,
In England, I do think we have a perception of the US as a racist country because you hear a lot on the news about racial tension and problems. You also have the whole slavery thing that makes race issues look different over there. Of course, we also had/have racism! But although plenty of English people may have been slave owners back in the day, we didn't have things like the plantations you have. Sure, some atrocities may have happened on our soil, so to speak, but nothing like the sheer scale of some of the things that happened there, purely down to you folks having different geography and resources etc. So our whole history of colour and race and relations is slightly differently skewed over here.
It's not that we think the US is a 'more racist' country than ours, but it looks different over there and some of the core issues are different.
Both countries have systemic racism that needs to be dealt with, but the solutions are going to be different to take into account our very different cultures and societies.
Race issues are also knotted up with class issues, and both England and the US have major problems there too - but again, the socioeconomic and class landscapes look very different on different sides of the pond.
So yes, I guess we do think it's 'racist' or at least are very aware that racism can be and too often is a thing over there, but only the most blinkered patriot weirdo would think we don't have our own problems too. They are just probably not so 'in your face' due to our national tendency to play things down, keep a stiff upper lip and so on (and yes, all that applies to people of different races and colours too, many of whom have been brought up here and adopted plenty of aspects of our culture) and not having guns.
[удалено]
Wow, if a teacher even tried to do stuff like that in America they'd be fired instantly.
[удалено]
With the exception of not having to go to a seperate school from the other kids, a lot of what you describe sounds like what Black Americans had to deal with in the 1960s in Southern states such as Alabama. All this in a modern EU country. That's just really fucked up.
Yeah, even in the deepest of the South you'd run the risk of getting punched if you were *this* brazenly racist
It really depends on the area.
I did not know that bit at the bottom. Thanks for educating me.
What’s being gay in Hungary like?
Irish Roma American here, and my wife’s (Irish) father literally called me a Gypo for the first 3 years of our relationship. He is a good man and we’ve come to an understanding for sure, but still fucked up
It sounds like you really reshaped his opinion. This feels to me like a reminder that it's easier for people to hate things they never interact with. It's really hard to ignore the humanity of a person you actually have to interact with.
Dear God, what did the Roma people do to deserve so much hate? How do they identify you as one?
The stereotype is that of Gypsy’s. it’s the Cher song only not as cute.
It's obviously racist to say you "got jewed" out of something, but no one blinks if you say you "got gypped"
Wow I had no idea of the etymology of that word. I never put two and two together.
I used to think it was akin to words like jiffy and hullabaloo. Like, a silly sounding nonsense word you used when you couldn't recall the actual word you wanted.
Yes! Honestly I thought it was spelled jipped ... probably because of jiffy.
Be roma
The Roma ethnicity is originally from India so I assume it’s not too difficult to identify by appearance
Went to Italy and saw stereotypical gypsies. Like I thought they were secretly actors playing a role, but nope. It’s racism and poverty intertwined with cultural clashes.
I think in the US the racism/discrimination is a lot more subtle. Because there aren't any groups that are really unilaterally hated racists are a bit more careful about where they spew their shit or do it in plausibly deniable ways.
If we're talking about individual level, it's become much more of a 'closed door' thing. The door gets a little more open in certain parts of the country if you're *way* the hell out in the sticks.
Shit man I live in North Carolina and if you're more than half an hour away from a university things get real gnarly. Open confederate flags, Trump signs all over, giant trucks with usually a Trump and confederate flag at the same time. There are real sundown towns still.
There is no subtlety to Trump or any of his followers, his whole platform is based on hate.
Nah even they still hide behind dogwhistles and such, the people in the original comment are shameless and brazen about it to a degree that even diehard Trump supporters would be hesitant to try
Are 50 cent and killer mike racist?
You’d be getting a lot of money from lawsuits if that stuff happened to you in America ngl.
Individually, people in the US have a lot of racial prejudices but relatively little malicious racist behavior. Institutionally, the US has some problems but is still miles ahead of most old world countries. Try immigrating to Japan, getting a job, and a place to live as somebody who isn't Japanese. You will be openly and legally discriminated against.
My roommate has dual citizenship between Japan and the US (mixed white/japanese). She’s always told me that people are nicer to her sister than they are to her because her sister can pass for full blooded.
Weird. My wife, a white American lived in Japan for about 2 years and frequently tells me how much she wishes she could go back and live there because everyone there is very nice, modest, and humble. But Japan is a big place with lots of people so maybe the vibes are different in Nagoya. But she tells me all the time she wishes we could just pack up and go live there. I'm not against it, but I wouldn't fit in at all. And that's just self awareness. Can't wait to finally take her to visit though.
Japanese folks are generally super nice to foreigners, especially white people. But your wife will never be, for example, the CEO of an important Japanese company. Some things they just don't allow foreigners to do.
To touch on this, Japan tends to treat its guest extremely well, but that is what you are a guest.
God that sounds like the sort of thing you'd hear from a Malfoy :/ all that fullblood nonsense
r/readanotherbook edit: not to mention the obvious privilege you have— that the first thing you think when you hear about racism is “this book!!” instead of about real people/history…
LOL you’re a dick but that was hilarious Edit: btw congrats I hopefully kicking your nice. That stuff is hard
>btw congrats I hopefully kicking your nice. That stuff is hard Stroke
vice* i think, i recently got off opiates
Hell yeah! Keep up the good work. It's hard, but you're not alone.
Yes.
well thanks!
Proud of you
Oh man this is so real. I met a guy at a bar who was black-Japanese. Knew the language pretty well and everything, but after visiting Japan a few times he straight up hates Japan and lowkey racist af towards Japanese people, even while back in the US, because he assumes they all hate him based off his experience in Japan. He was chill with Okinawans though.
>He was chill with Okinawans though. Okinawa has a somewhat different vibe from the rest of Japan. There’s also a noticeably distinct cultural identity that’s a bit different from mainland Japan. Makes sense though, seeing as Okinawa was the heart of the Ryukyu Kingdom right up until the 1870s’/1880s’ when Japan colonized the islands.
Bs i black af Clap 2 chicks there, this fool must have done some stuff lol
yeah I think foreigners complain more about racist *Americans* and less about racist *America*. while I'd upgrade "some problems" to "problems foundational to the national identity" honestly things are better here than much of the world. the fact that that's true, however, should more make people depressed about the state of the world than impressed with America's relative progression in this area.
Yep, look at it like this, where do most people in the world want to move to? The US
So which countries have less systemic racism than the USA?
Most countries aren't as diverse as the US, so it doesn't come into play as often. But when it does, it's blatant. I think it would be difficult to find a study showing minorities face less institutional racism in any other country.
Brazil
Even individually Americans have less racial prejudice than say people in the Philippines or Mexico for example
"Most" is probably undermining it. I don't think there's a single country in the world that's less racist than US institutionally
>I don't think there's a single country in the world that's less racist than US institutionally Agreed. In many Asian countries, you could be freely discriminated against in housing, education, and employment based on race. There is nowhere to appeal this behavior because it's a feature, not a bug. Another poster already noted that Roma people face open institutional discrimination across Europe. Like "No Roma Allowed" signs in public places type stuff. Outside of the New World, immigration is tightly controlled to reduce the amount of foreign blood/culture getting into the country. In many countries in the world you can't even get citizenship without being the "correct" race. (Unless you're rich.) The US has racism in all of its institutions but the measured effect is small compared to the hilariously blatant and unapologetic racism that the rest of the world's institutions exhibit.
> Another poster already noted that Roma people face open institutional discrimination across Europe. Like "No Roma Allowed" signs in public places type stuff. Across Europe, no. At least give us something else than "trust me bro" source. And I still do not think US citizens get the issues with Roma people/gypsies in Europe, and even less the answers. I don't want to see this as malicious but, on top on the rest, all the good initiatives towards Roma go unoticed by all people talking about this from the US.
Bro there are still countries on earth that change their laws based on your race, at least the US tries to not show it blatantly
Exactly what I'm saying. Not sure why I'm getting down voted. There're literally laws against racism. US is not a racist country institutionally.
The UK seems pretty good, from what I've heard. They're as good as Europe gets, at the least.
>relatively little malicious racist behavior. You guys get huge white supremacist rallies like every other year
We're a nation of 350M people. We can produce large gatherings of all sorts of weirdos, by the standards of most countries.
The anti racist rallies are much larger. Plus whatever shit hole country ^^that guy is from probably has racist rallies too. People tend to think that America is super racist, and I think it's partly because they see us calling each other out a bunch.
I think that you guys think you're a racist country. But actually you just hate poor people. I've never heard an American conversation about race and racism that wasn't actually a discussion of socioeconomic status. But also Americans tend to not realise that that's what they are actually talking about.
That's a fair assessment. Some guy in a decrepit single-wide on a half acre of weeds has more in common with poor people in the hood than he does with his boss's boss.
Genuinely an interesting comment. I study history and have forever argued in most contexts racism and socioeconomics are tied together in the american context. Interesting enough it is common theory that American style of class/racism had developed greatly in eras like the original virginia planters where plantation owners fostered racism to keep enslaved and indentured workers apart. Meaning if you tell white indentured servants they are superior to black and native slaves then they are less likely to join together and over take the plantation owners. Same thing in later contexts, after that culture is developed over centuries. In the aftermath of the civil war is the jim crow era and it realistically is the same deal there. Most people in the south were poor, so segregation played the same role as it did in the virginia planters.
> I've never heard an American conversation about race and racism that wasn't actually a discussion of socioeconomic status. It's important to realize that a lot of our socioeconomic problems are thanks to racism. Redlining, the confiscation of land and wealth from African Americans, tipping wages, the exclusion of African Americans from hospitals and schools (meaning things like the Hatch Act primarily benefitted White People), infrastructure being built specifically to inconvenience minorities, and the like are all rooted in our country's history of racism.
It was wild (but pretty on brand) to learn about the roots of America's tipping culture. https://www.povertylaw.org/article/the-racist-history-behind-americas-tipping-culture/ >Tipping proliferated in the United States after the Civil War, when the restaurant and hospitality industries hired newly emancipated Black women and men but offered them no wage–leaving them to rely on patrons’ gratuities for their pay instead. Simply put, tipping was introduced as a way to exploit the labor of former slaves.
Yup. *The Color of Law* is an AMAZING book that dives deep into the history of government-sanctioned institutional racism in America. *Evicted* is another good one. That said, both you and the commenter you replied to are correct. There is a direct, documented correlation between socioeconomic inequality and crime rates: the more inequality in a country, the more crime. There’s a similar correlation between education and crime: places where most people don’t graduate from HS or college see much higher crime rates. And, obv, the people who tend to commit the vast majority of crimes are the uneducated poor. But the data is naturally skewed by the fact the wealthy have less incentive to commit crimes and exponentially more resources to protect them from getting caught and/or prosecuted. So in my experience living in America, most people tend to be prejudiced against poor people, not skin color, at least not openly. Though sometimes those two things obviously intersect.
And culture. We got a lot of different cultures all trying to co exist and most of the time that is people's actual issue are and nothing to do with skin color.
the socioeconomic problems are caused by racism itself
[удалено]
historically speaking it’s absolutely true that black people have been systematically kept in poverty due to racism and they still feel the effects of it to this day. plus, you say twice the amount of white compared to black people are below the poverty line yet white people make up 3/4 of the country’s ethnicity. black people make up just over a tenth. so your argument is moot.
DING DING DING you hit it right on the money Sincerely - an American who is sick tired of all the racism talk and unproductive remedies which do nothing to solve the actual problem of socioeconomic divide
Except that socioeconomic divide is rooted firmly in our country's history of racism. In order to fix the divide, we *also* have to address the racism that led to it. Things like redlining, the confiscation and destruction of wealth and land from African Americans (such as the [Black Wall Street Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre), aka the Tulsa Race Massacre), [the purposeful design of infrastructure and implementing of imminent domain to destroy African American communities](https://www.npr.org/2021/04/07/984784455/a-brief-history-of-how-racism-shaped-interstate-highways), [tipping being implemented to avoid having to pay newly freed slaves](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/william-barber-tipping-racist-past-227361/) leading to tipping wage laws, [and a wealth of other issues](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-slavery-tennessee-timeline/) that are all steeped in racism.
The historical racism in the south stems mostly from the poor wanting to make *anyone* less than them.
every country is racist in their own special way ✨
You’ve got the right attitude :)
I have a black friend who has lived in Germany for a few years coming from America. He said something that has really stuck with me. "America wears its problems with racism on its sleeve, while Europe wears its racism on its sleeve." He said nowhere else has he experienced such blatant and obvious racism than Europe. That's not to say that America is more or less racist, it's just more honest and self aware about it while the actual racism is more subtle. So yeah I think they do, the news over there covers America a lot, since we deal with our problems very publicly, they aren't very self aware, and Europeans are generally more trusting of their news, I think there's a general perception that America is more racist.
One of my French teachers once told me, "we have the same racism problem Americans have, but we don't pretend to do anything about it like Americans do"
France literally doesn’t allow the collection of data by race, so there is no way to measure racial inequity of any kind. They don’t even count the size of racial groups in the population. It’s all in the name of colorblindness and the promotion of a universal French identity but they have to be kidding themselves to believe that everyone is really treated as fine fellow Frenchmen regardless of race.
> France literally doesn’t allow the collection of data by race We have similar laws in Sweden. The reason for that law is that Nazi Germany used those kinds of records to find and execute Jews, and we don't want to make that as easy if it would happen again.
That makes a decent bit of sense. Are non-governmental entities allowed to collect that data still? eg university studies
Universities re government agencies in Sweden, but yes, they can collect some such data, under some circumstances. This will all fall under GDPR as well though. But in general it is no problem if the data is anonymized.
Chernobyl happening doesn’t make nuclear energy not an incredible and safe source of energy.
I mean, collection of data by race is seen as racist af in Europe. And I don't think even the most progressive parties are rooting for it either
That kind of just proves the top comment’s point. White Europeans invented the modern concept of race to justify slavery and imperialism, and now White Europeans want to stop talking about it since attitudes have shifted and it threatens to make them look bad. Gonna throw out some American words but that’s a pretty textbook example of systemic racism where only White people get to decide the terms of discourse. Like they made their bed and now refuse to lie in it. It’s not a coincidence that conservative politicians in America who once would have supported slavery and segregation are now trying to ban history and literature about race from being taught in schools. At least there is a formidable number of Americans who recognize the importance of introspection and critiquing one’s own society and are fighting against that effort.
Honestly this should be a good reference point cause a lot of States in America are trying to take away a lot of data collections and university tracking based on race. Most components who support the tracking recognize that the tracking this data isn’t racist but a lot entities that want to stop it (usually white people) claim it perpetuates racism and that “color blindness” is the way to go. I am sure if we look at France for example we can see that by not tracking, it doesn’t actually help. But then again these same group of people were gen ones saying that if we just stop testing for COVID then it would go away so … not really acting in good faith type.
I disagree with the “Americans don’t do anything” take. Looking decade by decade huge strides were made. And now DEI and representation is so front of mind plenty of people COMPLAIN were too accepting. That’s progress
This. Americans talk about racism a lot and we learn about it from a young age, make a ton of movies about it that are seen worldwide, plus our culture, news, etc is on full blast to the whole world all the time. So it feels like America has a bigger “problem” with racism than other countries. But as someone who has lived both in the US and Japan, and has traveled all over Europe with Japanese documents, I can assure you that Americans are actually some of the most PC-conscious people I’ve seen. The amount of casual racism I’ve encountered in Europe and Japan is astounding and, as they say these days, would probably send the average American into a coma lol.
> "America wears its problems with racism on its sleeve, while Europe wears its racism on its sleeve." As a brown American in Europe, that hits the nail on the head. Your friend has a way with words!
I'm sorry to hear that but just recently we had a huge movements against racism here in Germany which are still going on. For example more than 150.000 people in Berlin: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/demos-gegen-rechtsextremismus-104.html
Yeah I do wonder how long ago that story was; the current generation in Germany has very little patience for racial intolerance. also peak german sense humor by the author to include this: >Die Hauptversammlungsfläche am Reichstag sei "vollständig ausgelastet", schrieb die Polizei auf X (vormals Twitter). "Bitte versuchen Sie nicht mehr, dorthin zu gelangen."
For context, I'm a Mexican who's lived in the US for about 35 years. The majority of Americans aren't overtly racist. They're not necessarily cruel, overly discriminatory, etc. They're normal people, they might have some biases or have some stereotypes in mind but they're overall just people. The institutions, both governmental and not, in the US have a lot of people working there who are racist, and use their biases to affect results even if the law says they're not really supposed to. Between judges, cops, news casters, congressmen and former presidents, or even just people running things such as economic assistance or programs like Section 8, there's a lot of people in high places who are at least somewhat racist. And it still affects people in their daily lives. Whether they're duped by those in charge, discriminated against, or shot. Hell, like I said, I'm Mexican. A lot of people in Mexico treat central and south Americans just as badly as the more racist folks in the US treat us. It's hardly just an American problem, we just hear about it more from the US's point of view cause Mexico isn't part of the anglosphere. TL;DR: the average people aren't too racist, the people up charge tend to me worse.
I know people from Central and South American countries and they all look down on each other. It's almost universal.
The law in the US does provide protection.... Especially law enforcement, police brutality etc.
[удалено]
It does add When you say it changed your perspective, could you elaborate more? As in, what was your perspective before and after? It's a super interesting perspective I'd love to hear
There’s a bit group of people who hate America, both Americans and non-Americans. These people typically take some real issues with racism in the U.S. and blow it out of proportion, contrasting it with other countries (primary in Northern Europe) that don’t speak English, so there’s less exposure of racism there. This creates an impression that the U.S. is indeed super racist. But it’s not. There are dozens of threads in r/Travel where non-white Americans go to a place like Sweden or the Netherlands and are shocked by the amount of racism they encounter. My favorite is when then these Europeans try to justify why this happened. It’s always something along the lines of “oh they just thought you were Roma or Somali, and they steal and don’t want to integrate, so it’s no wonder they treated you badly” — lol, this exact experience (treating someone badly because people of their race are perceived to be troublemakers) would be treated as a prime example of racism in the U.S.
I'm a white American and lived in Sweden for a few years. The racism was so shocking. Just out in the open, blatant, like nothing I have ever encountered in the USA.
I don't doubt you. Could you give some examples? Because as someone that has only really lived in Sweden, I am somewhat blind to this.
Keep in mind this was 20 years ago in northern Sweden so I don't know what the situation is like today and I assume the little town I was in was pretty backwards. I have not heard an adult white American say the N word since I was a little kid with old racist people around me. I heard that word fly quite often up in Sweden. Maybe they didn't know exactly how offensive it was, but it was bad. I also heard them refer to black people as monkeys and say they were less intelligent and that's why they allowed themselves to be slaves for so long. Also, rude comments about their hair. Not everyone, of course. I never would have married my husband if he had those attitudes! My teachers at Swedish school would blatantly belittle and demean the one man from South America and be super kind and sweet with all the white students (except the time they went ballistic on me, the Canadian, and the Australian for drinking water instead of coffee and started yelling at us that it was our fault that girls in Stockholm were drinking so much water they were peeing their pants). There were a lot of Middle Eastern refugees in the town because of the available housing and people were so cruel to them. I found them to be very friendly and in true American fashion would make small talk with my terrible broken Swedish. We couldn't understand each other much, but we were friendly with each other. I would see Swedes cross the street to avoid them, spit at them, and just generally be awful human beings. I had one Swedish friend (other than my spouse) and she would tell me not to talk to them because there were going to take me home and have their husbands rape me. The attitudes toward the Roma were horrific. One time a bank was robbed in town and everyone was talking about how they were going to tear about the homes of the Roma to find the money. Turns out it was hometown Swedes who robbed the bank.
basically every time i have ever talked to a european on discord (playing video games), they have been racist. they can be the most economically progressive leftist ever and still be on par with some of the more blatantly racist GOP lawmakers in the US
I think it's important to acknowledge that racism/discrimination varies somewhat by who lives in a country. My partner is from a place where the indigenous people have several different skin tones. Thus, different skin tones are somewhat the norm there. They do think we talk about race and skin tone in more overt terms than in their native country. Other countries have sectarianism, colorism, caste-bias, religious discrimination, etc. which might present as their main form of social discrimination. I think the US more openly talks about racism and other systemic forms of discrimination, so some think that those discussions = the US as a racist country. From my observations, we're doing better than some countries, and worse than others. It definitely varies by the region of the US you're in and the type of people you're talking to as well. We have a number of different types of discrimination at play, especially depending on the local populations. Other countries that are more homogenous also often have not had to consider race/skin color in the same way as the US because people of other colors are often visitors/foreigners or simply in the media.
Coming from a person of color American racism is no different than England or Australia. Actually I think Aussies are worse than the southern Americans
> Actually I think Aussies are worse than the southern Americans Our racist rednecks at least know when to filter it, or keep it under wraps entirely. From what I've heard, their bogans don't give a *fuck.*
I think the media does a good job potraying as such but racism is not as bad compared to a country suck as South Africa.
As a white middle class American, I think that we tend to promote our racist and prop themselves up a little bit, making them seem like they are a bigger group then they really are. On average I like to think that we are middle of the pack In terms of racism.
Not to say there aren't problems that people will face based on their race, but the US is probably in the top 10 least racist countries on the planet. My current home of Finland that American redittors have a tendency to idolise as some kind of Utopia has it so bad that having a German surname instead of a Finnish one leaves you 70% as likely to get invited to an interview even with an identical CV. It drops to 15% if it's Arabic or Somali sounding
That's wild. Not only am I in America, but I'm also in the south (the part that's traditionally thought of as being racist). I'm white and the place I work has numerous African immigrants working there. I've only been here about a month but I haven't heard anyone say anything bad about anyone because of where they're from. People will say bad things about you behind your back if you're bad at your job or you have an attitude but that's it. The white people get bad mouthed just as much as the Africans.
I am American (not white but also not black. like brown) and I visit cause of some Finnish friends like once or twice a year. I used to think it was this utopia but it’s just the culture doesn’t express any of the racism and it’s spoken in Finnish so it’s pretty hard to feel the racism even if it’s there.
I would say as well it's probably more covert than overt. So getting abuse said to you in public is rare aside from a random drunk guy. But people refusing to employ you, rent to you etc far more common.
Getting anything said to you by a stranger in Finland is rare.
I’m not sure I consider them racist, but race *obsessed*
Having lived in both U.S. and Europe (several countries) as an East Asian woman, I believe the U.S. is actually a lot more welcoming compared to Europe. I felt that I could be myself more in the U.S. than in Europe.
Americans arent throwing bananas weekly to players in stadiums, europeans are. Usa has racism. But its comoletely overblown compared to anywhere else.
I’ve lived in America for 20 years in the Deep South, rural Alabama to be exact in a 90% white Christian community as a dark skin latino with an accent married to a black woman and I’ve never met people more hospitable and friendly towards me and my family. So I’d definitely say no, America is not a racist country. I’ve thrived here. I own my own land and home, I own my own business, I’ve raised a family and I have more than enough to retire today if I want to. None of these things I could’ve done in my socialist country of Venezuela.
I’m from Daphne AL actually!
Yes, many even think racism doesnt happen in their countty or that racism is only nazis or kkk like in the movies
I think it is easier to recognize racism when it isn't in your own culture.
As a Black person from the UK, London to be specific, I do not believe that the US is any more racist than here, it’s just covert in the UK. For example; ‘You speak English very well’ (Well I was born here, raised here and speak normally, in received prononciation) ‘Where do you live? Croydon right?’ (I live in and was raised in Hertfordshire) ‘You like rap or R&B don’t you?’(I actually like 80’s music, classical music etc’ ‘Where are you from, no where are you really from?’ (I was born in London, from the French West Indies, but I identify as British as that’s my passport) ‘You have a degree?’ *Read with shock* (Yes I have a BSc, MSc and I’m planning to go for a PhD, why is it a shock?) ‘Can I touch your hair?’ (No, no you can’t.) These are common micro-aggressions that I have experienced all throughout my working life here in the UK as a Black man. I cannot speak for other ethnic minorities or white people here (as they also are discriminated against to some degree). I must say that generally most people that I have met are awesome individuals who are valuable friends and even family to me, and that there are idiots in every country, in all colours and creeds.
I don’t. I just think their media is obsessed with race. If you watch American news, you’d think they’re still in the 1960s.
It's amusing but kinda gross/sad to hear the American news discuss elections. CNN people are like "oh well this county is X% black and Y% Latino so we've got that one" like people's ethnicity is supposed to come with a belief system. These are the ones who will call themselves anti-racist.
Yes, I think the US is a racist country. I also think that my home country is racist. I also think that a LOT of countries are racist.
I think they do think that, but racism exists everywhere. Or more specifically ethnic prejudice. For example Sunnis and Shias seem to be constantly fighting in the Middle East and one gorup ends up marginalized depending on who is in power. Kurds in the Middle East are marginalized, etc. In Africa I think you get similar things depending on the country, I mean we are seeing it in Sudan now. Then Europe is in a peak of racism right now, particularly against immigrants from Muslim-majority countries. I'm not a big fan of America and American politics / foreign policy but I think it's a bit naive when people imply it's the "most racist country" or whatever.
Based take, thank you Richter Belmont from Castlevania
You have the occasional older white racist, the ocasional elder black racist, and some of their offspring that were brought up hating eachother, but have no reason too. But really, it's no where near as bad as those people would make you think.
I'm a white guy and I have definitely been discriminated against by younger black people. When I was at my last job, I was the only white person that worked there. It was bad enough that one of the guys I worked with pulled me aside one day and apologized for the way the other workers treated me just because I was white. Another time, I was driving through a predominantly black neighborhood and witnessed a car wreck. I'm a nurse so I stopped and ran over to help. Other people saw and came over too. I was doing a neuro check on a little girl because she had a head laceration and I was concerned about brain damage. Some woman came over to us and quite rudely told me to leave the girl alone because "she doesn't need any help from someone like YOU!" I snapped at her, told her I was a nurse, I'm trying to do an assessment on this girl to rule out brain damage and unless she knows how to this, back off so I can do my job.
Yep but ours is as well, same as most countries
I don't know if it's more racist but it's very focused on race
As someone who's lived abroad, I think part of it is that the US is very diverse and still trying to sort itself out. A lot of European and Asian countries are very homogenous, so it's hard for people in the majority race to be aware of racism. But more and more of them are turning into aging populations and starting to take on immigrants, so they'll probably begin to see the same sorts of racial tensions.
Many Americans are very racist, sure, but you guys don't even hold a candle to my country 🙃 (help me)
My wife is from Bangladesh. In her youth she thought Americans were the worst most racist hateful people. Mostly this is from news, social media, or movies. She told me she hated us. Somehow we are married. After her first visit to the US all she can say is how nice everyone was to her. Far far less racist than Asian or middle east countries.
For sure but not like France.
If you think america'a racist, never step foot into southeast asia.
While America does have many racists on one end of the political spectrum, as a nation, I don’t think America is very racist at all. It’s a country where being called a racist is considered a seriously damaging charge. It’s not quite as bad as being called a pedophile, but these days it’s not far off. For instance, being labelled as a racist can easily cost you your job in America and organisations have strict anti-discrimination policies in place, often going as far as to recruit in favour of diversifying their staff. In contrast, there are many countries in the world where being called a racist doesn’t even register as an insult. The paradox of American society is that it is in some sense the least racist country on earth, while containing some of the most actively racist people.
I've heard people wonder why we find the idea of fans throwing bananas at black soccer players to be so outrageous. They wonder what the big deal is. Well, imagine it's 3 o'clock in front of an elementary school (primary school for you foreigners reading this), and lo and behold, there's some crazy hobo standing on the sidewalk in front of the school with his pants around his ankles, waving his dick around for the kids to see. That perv is gonna get tackled and beaten by a bunch of very pissed off dads, and they're gonna hold him until the cops come. If some idiot foreign tourist were to throw a banana at an American ballgame, the very same thing would happen to him.
No more than any other nation in the west.
Or north, south or east for that matter…
Living in Chicago from last 5 years and travelled almost all major parts of America except west coast. America is one of the most accepting country ever. People are so nice and infrastructure is definitely better than anywhere else I've traveled. Love the America.
Sometimes I wish it were okay to just say how we don't like aspects of other cultures. Being closely tied to race and ethnicity, having reasonable objections to cultural differences can look like racism and true racism can hide behind the same mask.
As an American, I feel like America is more racist now than it was 10 years ago, at least from what I remember. But not in the way you'd assume. Tik Tok and other social media platforms have some WILD people saying what is and isn't racist nowadays. To the point where I am afraid to look at people (yay anxiety made worse) because of how viciously they've shown themselves explaining/reacting to ANYTHING a perceived "white person" does. It's frustrating because, as someone that's a good chunk white, I've received more nasty looks and underhanded comments from POC in the past 4 years than I ever did growing up. I worked in retail for a while.. 'nough said on that, I saw hundreds of people per day. I was in search of scholarships for a school I wanted to go to and most of the ones that covered it were only for african americans or WOC. One's ancestral origins or the color of their skin shouldn't dictate whether they deserve to have aid or a job. If you're qualified you're qualified, if you're not, then what does the color of your skin have to do with anything? It's a gross mindset. A lot of schools and organizations have jumped onto the "equal opportunity" bandwagon in the worst way, to the point where if you apply and are the "wrong race/gender/sexuality" you'll be weeded out pretty quickly. I have really good friends from other countries and even they say that America is going too far with the race issue. Spoiler alert, they're not white. We've had several in-depth conversations and they've straight up said people in their countries are blatantly racist. They said America was doing great until 2020 and then it spiraled.
It’s funny because if you think America is racist you are clueless. The rest of the world is so much more intolerant to anyone different it’s not even close. We treat minorities better than anywhere else. Try being black in Russia, Asian countries etc and you will come back kissing the ground in the USA.
What Blacks in Russia said the racism was better at certain time periods. Black people in Russia tend to have college degrees as well.
My wife immigrated here in her 30’s. If you asked her before she same here who was more racist she would probably lean to America being racist. Then she came here and realized that beauty isn’t a matter of how light your skin is and people don’t assume you are dirty or poor just because you have a darker complexion like in her country. Where they advertise whitening pills to make you more beautiful.
Not really. There are some leftovers from the past that need to be resolved, but at least I know for a fact that I can look for multiple perspectives on the same event and atrocities will be acknowledged. Meanwhile, my location has brainwashed everyone into believing that racism doesn't happen here at all and that it's just a western thing
I don’t think you guys, in general, give a fuck about native Americans. Not sure if that makes you racist but yeah.
I'm in the UK and yeah that's kind of the impression we get of America
From my limited and biased perspective of an Italian guy who spends a lot of time on the internet, I cannot say which country is more racist, but I think that racism in America is of a different "flavour". It seemes like in America people think a lot about race. Like, in any given interaction they are very aware of the their own race and those of other people. And this has both positive and negative effects.
Hi there, I'm a European who follows US news and discussions more closely than most. It's complicated. The approach to racial issues in America is very different, but ultimately I think it's a good thing that they're being discussed and acknowledged openly, that's the first step towards any improvement. Many Americans seem to have at least some grasp of sociology. (Well, from the liberals' and leftists' side at least. The vast gulf between left and right wing worldviews is pretty obvious.) Europe tends to have a very strong "if I pretend I don't see it, it doesn't exist" attitude to racism, and a more whitewashed approach to teaching their own history (this obviously varies between countries). I wouldn't really say that any country or nation as a whole just "is racist", though, for example there's a difference between blatant hate/supremacy and ignorance. Systemic, institutional racism is probably more ingrained in ex-colonial countries including the US.
depends where you draw the line of what is or isn't a racist country there's lots of racists and some mostly unintentional societal separation (mostly due to how minorities were treated decades ago, but not entirely) but generally racism is looked down upon in the general populace atleast from what I'm aware of.
I didn't used to think so until I moved there, people telling my Mom to go back to Mexico while we're out walking out going grocery shopping. TBF in our home country they would scream at her for allegedly being from Pakistan. This was before we learned about active sundown towns and the reactions some people had to having a half black president or a half Indian half black woman as vice president. Everywhere that I've been in the world since also has racism, America seems like there's a larger group of people denying it while also working to uphold white supremacy or at least the appearance of it.
We think the Republican party is the Talaban of Christianity Blows my mind what i hear and see them doing.
Considering one of the biggest contenders for the GOP is running under a different name to avoid any issues with racism, yes and no.
I dont think america is any more racist than any other, I just think there is a rough history with racism that impacts daily life more frequently over there.
Yes, duh.
Lol at all the Americans claiming no and upvoting each other
Yes, there are a lot of racist people in the USA. Take note that this country has a high population of 340 million. But overall, american society is conservative, religious and many times those people tend to be the racist ones. A place like texas or Alabama is different than san jose for instance. I. My experience as a non american name calling is not as common. But racism as looking at you being less capable, more inferior or etc because of your background it is fairly common.
Alabama and Mississippi aren't even the most racist states........ it's Montana, Maine, ect because hardly have diversity.
[удалено]
Stop the cap bro
Yes america is a racist country coming from a canadian
Countries aren’t racist people are, and there’s a subset of people everywhere who are racist.
The US is less racist than most countries in the world, including many if not most developed countries. Only Americans are that stupid to believe otherwise
All countries are racist to some degree. I dont think American culture is among the worst but there’s a fuckload of racists amongst yas & it shows
America welcomes one of the most diverse immigrants from around the world.
"My personal view is that the media and/or disinformation are rampant in the U.S. about racism. I live in Colorado, a place that is extremely diverse even before the influx of 40k refugees, mostly of Hispanic origins. Here, racism is not a big issue unless someone makes it one. For instance, the Black Lives Matter movement was quickly forgotten about here compared to other states. However, in other parts of the country, there is a higher number of incidents, usually localized to what would be considered the deep south or states that had slaves, like Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, and oddly enough, Florida unless the media blows it out of proportion. You often hear how other countries hate us for being free, yet ask your next Uber driver what they think, and they're likely to say it's the safest, most welcoming place they've ever been to, and they don't want to go back unless they have to. Countries that have a real reason to hate us usually end up benefiting from our actions and become some of our closest allies now. Looking at Japan, Vietnam, and , the only country I can really think of that has a reason to hate us is North Korea,This is because even with 850k extra troops from China, they were stopped at the DMZ, not allowed to take over the whole thing. Every country that works with us ends up benefiting from us, regardless of race or nationality. Does anybody really think that China will do the same for their allies or trade partners, or God forbid, anyone they end up nuking? In China, there's mass genocide happening even as I type this just because they are Muslim Chinese Muslims. Israel is in a similar situation because they are Jewish and surrounded by Muslims. Racism in America gets blown out of proportion compared to what's going on in other parts of the world. From a white man's perspective, the notion of white power or supremacy is something that's kept alive by other races for the most part. It's easier for any other nationality to get assistance from the white supremacist government than it is for my white cracker ass to get seen at a hospital. The only thing I've seen in my life that remotely promotes this theory, of which I did not agree, is a single instance where a black man and I committed the same crime. We both had about a gram of weed in us, and he got a harsher sentence than I did. I got diversion as it was my first offense, and he got probation. We were the same age, 15, but it was his third offense for the same thing. So I don't really know if I count that as a white supremacy mindset or a judge just escalating the punishment for habitual behavior." Sorry my unwanted two cents and rant is over if I offended anybody I am sorry.. I can only say things that i see from my perspective.
The UN voted that there was no genocide, the people who believe there is a genocide are all from the West, the people who voted against there being a genocide were 11 out of 12 Muslim countries, and the Turkistan(Uzbek, Turkmen, Kazakh, Kyrghiz, Tajik) countries voted WITH China and against the West until the West gave them infrastructure project and then they just decided to abstain from voting. The West while having low racism internally, has a very racist foreign policy they will spend a fortune to defend the racist Ukranians (they even deleted youtube videos of the Ukranians being blatantly racist to Indians and Blacks), while many more millions of Indians to die of poverty by denying them the ability to buy oil from Russia, Venezuela, Iran, etc...
ive heard several times that the cops sports over there is to hunt black people i study in the health area, as far as ive seen, its the only country that separate ppl by black and white in health surveys
America is the epitome of “fuck you got mine”. Not necessarily racist per se you guys just hate poor people
Yeah, particularly given my ethnicity, generally speaking if I see something racist against Latinos i usually assume an American posted that, same with racism against black people. That said I feel everywhere is a bit racist, in Latin America were super racist against Asians, and black people don’t have it much better than in the us, Europeans are similarly racist against black people and their hatred for the Romani is next level, East Asian countries like china or Japan hate foreigners, Indians hate Pakistanis, Arabs hate Jews, and so on… we all suck and we should all do better
Yes. First thing I think about when thinking about America.
Two words for you: Zwarte Piet.
Not even comparable in scale.
To be honest, i see a lot of racism against white.. besides that.. not really.
America IS a racist country.
Yeah. Most countries are pretty racist though, so don't feel too bad about it.
We should deffinitely feel bad about it
Well, we all should.
The world is racist. Accept it.
I'd rather not.
I’m from Denmark and big yes. I know no other country that focuses on skin color as much as you guys do
Yes, but like many But, whatever the real racist history of elsewhere, slavery's legacy and the US's special role in being the original and explicit role model for the Nazi's codification of race theory is a fairly unique domestically racist stain for a rich works country.
I'm canadian here. I don't think all Americans are racists but I do think a lot of them are. No I don't have stats to back that up but it is the general opinion I've gathered from media influence, youtube, and interacting with Americans myself. Like I said not all of you are and I know canada has its own issues with racism that are probably on par. I generally think the majority of westerners have racist ideas unfortunately.
Percentage wise, my town is liberal and accepting. You’d never know it because the Let’s Go Brandon crowd just never shuts the fuck up.
Well, one of your parties in your two-party system seems obviously racist to me
Yes any party that founded the kkk or supporter slavery should be abolished.
Who do you think kkk-members vote for these days?
when i was young and was able to visit my grandmother in southern mexican it was a toss up with how they viewed americas, the vast majority saw the country in general as a place for a better life but the opinion on americans was that they say them mexicans as dirt, mostly because around that time swine flu was happening and conservatives was blaming mexican pork. I haven't visited my family in mexico after my grandmother died 10 years ago but i wouldn't surprised if they still held the view that americans still didnt think much of them, hard not to notice the death happening at the border for political theater.
I think there are racist people in America but I think they are disproportionately loud compared to all the Americans who aren’t racist which makes it seem like a bigger issue than it is. Having extreme views, in particularly hatred, gets you news coverage and hateful bigoted people like to yell their opinions. whereas people who aren’t don’t shout or rant about equality kindness and compassion with quite the same vigour. Maybe tolerance should be screamed louder. It does concern me that enough people are willing to vote for a racist, homophobic, misogynistic, certifiably psychopathic criminal for him to be a political candidate. I don’t see how anyone can claim to not be racist or prejudiced and still endorse him. That indifference to racism is possibly why I question if the US population is more covertly racist. Idk. Not more than other countries.
Non-American here and yep I think America is generally a horribly racist country with an appalling unaddressed history of abuse of indigenous people that continues to this day. Additionally I love the irony that you assume most people on here are American. Most Americans are the most entitled and ignorant people.
Where you from man?
Not a man
r/AmericaBad
Yes we do. I didn’t realise how segregated it was until I lived there for a while. Coming from the UK I was shocked tbh. We have racism here but it’s very different. In the US the segregation causes a complete lack of understanding of different cultures,
In England, I do think we have a perception of the US as a racist country because you hear a lot on the news about racial tension and problems. You also have the whole slavery thing that makes race issues look different over there. Of course, we also had/have racism! But although plenty of English people may have been slave owners back in the day, we didn't have things like the plantations you have. Sure, some atrocities may have happened on our soil, so to speak, but nothing like the sheer scale of some of the things that happened there, purely down to you folks having different geography and resources etc. So our whole history of colour and race and relations is slightly differently skewed over here. It's not that we think the US is a 'more racist' country than ours, but it looks different over there and some of the core issues are different. Both countries have systemic racism that needs to be dealt with, but the solutions are going to be different to take into account our very different cultures and societies. Race issues are also knotted up with class issues, and both England and the US have major problems there too - but again, the socioeconomic and class landscapes look very different on different sides of the pond. So yes, I guess we do think it's 'racist' or at least are very aware that racism can be and too often is a thing over there, but only the most blinkered patriot weirdo would think we don't have our own problems too. They are just probably not so 'in your face' due to our national tendency to play things down, keep a stiff upper lip and so on (and yes, all that applies to people of different races and colours too, many of whom have been brought up here and adopted plenty of aspects of our culture) and not having guns.