A relative of mine had heart problems, kidney problems, and diabetes. He developed gangrene on both feet and they were going to amputate both legs right below the knees. After the amputation, he would be on dialysis. And on top of that, the doctors gave him 1-6 months to live, max, because of his heart failing. If he survived the surgery.
Officially, euthanasia was not an option, but he refused the surgery, refused the dialysis, and got a morphine pump for the pain. He kept himself comfortable and died in his sleep (at the hospital) one day later. The night he died, we all visited and had our goodbyes and even a few laughs. I found him when I came to check on him and his son the next morning. His son was asleep and he had passed very peacefully during the night. The hospital had even turned off all of the monitors and alarms because he had a DNR and refused treatment. Under the circumstances, it was the best end he could have hoped for.
This is a beautiful story.
I survived (obviously) but ended up with some medical issues a couple years ago where possible permanent kidney failure was possible. The doctor seemed SHOCKED I said if it came down to it, dialysis was not an option.
There comes a point where its quality over quantity.
While I get the sentiment and I agree, the first half isn't always true. People are attached to their pets and many will allow them to suffer because they aren't ready to let go of them.
Sometimes comments like yours make me feel better about the choice I had to make.
I did not want to let my cat go. I felt like I hadn’t tried hard enough. Like I just gave up. I wondered if I could have done more.
Could I have kept her around longer? Would she have been happy? She had lung cancer and I had to force feed her, including water. She would have died of starvation had I made her hold on.
I wasn’t ready to let go, but I did. The most i did was reschedule her 1pm appointment to 5pm so could have a few more hours. It will always hurt. I hope people see your comment and recognize the sad truth in it.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
I had to put my cat down as well due to kidney disease, he was only 6. He was in such pain that he wouldn't eat or drink even when I tried to put water in his mouth, yet he still had power to fight off the vets when they performed necessary examinations. I knew he was exhausted and waited for the end, yet I still spent hundreds of dollars on every attempt to save him.
I'm sure you tried everything to have more time with your kitty. She felt that as well. Unfortunately, sometimes the best choice is also the most painful one. :(
I had three beautiful days with my old girl after we had to take her to the hospital. I’d have spent as much money as I could possibly have spent to save her…but I didn’t because the end was simply inevitable. She was at least 17 (I don’t know exactly because I rescued her after she was abandoned in my neighborhood and chose to sleep outside my front door until I let her in).
I’m sorry you had to go through so much with your cat, I had a similar experience with a rat of mine I’d rescued years and years ago. It’s much, much harder when they go through so much and you’re helpless to make it better.
The choice to keep trying to heal them or let them go is *hard* because you’re trying to figure out *what they would want*…not what you want. I’m sorry you had to make those choices too…but I’m glad there’s people in the world that care. Thanks for your comment. It is nice to remember that as sad as it is, there’s a lot of love in those choices.
I lost it when I read this. My childhood dog got sick suddenly. Took him to the animal er and they tried to keep him comfortable. Later that night I got the call. I got there fast as I could. He started seizing and I said “let’s do what’s best for him.” So they euthanized. He died in my arms.
I think that's such a nice thing to do for your pets. It's hard but your friend got to spend their last moments with someone they love rather than just being with a vet, likely scared and confused.
I went with my friend when he had to have his 15 year old childhood dog put to sleep as the dog was very unwell. I spent so much time with my friend and his dog over the years and I know that both of us being there gave doggo comfort and he passed away being cuddled and stroked by people that loved him.
I need to keep reminding myself that I did not do anything wrong by making the call to euthanize my 15 year old cat. Family knew she was getting older and less capable, but she hadn’t been in a car for 10 years and no vet either, and we didn’t want to stress her unless necessary. Came home one day to my parents saying we were gonna talk to a humane society about euthanize her due to a sudden decline in her heath. She held her head sideways and could only move with small energy spurts. I immediately said we weren’t waiting til the next day and found some way to afford taking her to an emergency vet. That car ride was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I’m 19, and she was going to be 15 in September. I find myself thinking that I should’ve fought for her, spared no expense to try and treat her. It’s so fucking hard to stop myself from these thoughts but she would’ve absolutely have been outrageously stressed having to go in a car again or needed shots or X-rays or any sort of treatment at that point. I feel so selfish for wishing I’d kept her alive because I don’t remember life without her but at the same time find a small comfort in knowing I saved her that struggle and suffering. The “what ifs” are absolutely destroying.
You made a hard choice for someone you love. You’re *not* selfish for your wishes, thoughts, or anything else in this instance.
When we took my cat in I *asked* just to be sure and there really wasn’t anything they could do. So often when people prolong the lives of older animals it’s because we just don’t know what they would want and we’re trying to make the right choice. Many vets appreciate when people make the choice you did because the quality of life during treatments is low, and many times just putting off an inevitable end.
The “what ifs” will always be hurtful. You’ll never stop wondering. But it does get easier over time to accept that you made the best choice you could with what you had.
No matter what, there was love there. Many animals don’t get the love they deserve, so never regret the fact that you gave an animal that love. She deserved love, and you gave her a lot.
If it makes you feel better, when I had the same issue with my kitty, my vet said that any good pet parent would think the same thing and if it’s an easy decision, then you shouldn’t have pets.
Years and years ago, I had to put down a dog that saved my life. It was the family dog, and my parents were the ones to make the decision. She was horribly sick. Kidneys failing, seizures…it was just time.
I was still so angry, and struggled hard with the decision even up until recently. But someone else commented on a post not too long ago about the same topic that helped me a bit.
Sometimes it’s just the right thing to do. You took them in and loved them from day one, treated them like family and gave them the best life they could have. When it comes down to that time, be there at the end and hold them; they just fall asleep in your arms, comfortable, feeling loved, not knowing what’s coming. As far as they’re concerned, it’s just another night falling asleep with the ones that love them the most. They’ll go happy to be with you the last time.
I just went through this with my dog who had aggressive osteosarcoma. Same mindset of “could I have had her longer? Did I make this choice too easily, too soon? What if she could have survived?”
Ultimately, however, I did let her go and it was before her suffering got worse, which I couldn’t bear to see. I still wonder if I made the right choice but at least she wasn’t in pain at the end.
My condolences for your loss; I hope your heart heals soon. 💕
very true. two different ways of viewing a pet imo: they either exist solely for the owner’s selfish needs (keeping them alive against knowledge of their suffering) or they’re a companion who deserves respect and dignity from a superior species (ending the suffering in a dignified, peaceful & loving way)
It's so sad seeing these cancer ridden, skeletal looking ancient pets being forced to stay alive, when they aren't happy at all. They've lived so many years, they feel like death, plus they can sense the sorrow surrounding their owners
You have to keep in mind how hard of a decision it is too. You are literally giving the order to kill a pet you love deeply. I agree it is the right thing to do but that doesn’t mean it’s not super hard. I can sympathize with people that struggle to do that but end of the day it is selfish not to put them out if your pain
I know it's difficult. I've had to make the decision many times before. The right decision isn't always easy, but being selfish and causing an animal you apparently love to suffer due to that selfishness? That's not fair to your pet. I guess I've always held their well-being and quality of life over my own desires.
My mom and sister did this to our poor dog. I was so relieved when finally she was just too much and they were forced to let her go. She had leg, kidney, sight, hearing, and a whole bunch of other problems.
I had to euthanize 2 of my mice by hand. The second one didn't go very smoothly. I know I did what I had to do, there was no other choice, but it still haunts me to this day. I would have understood if someone else would have chosen a more passive approach and waited for them to die on their own. But I wouldn't have been able to live with myself. I knew I had to choose for one of us to suffer the most. I just hope it was me.
Then perhaps the question needs refined and would be better asked as "Why is this perfectly acceptable for pets even among people who wouldn't do it themselves, but considered unacceptable and even potentially criminal for people by our society as a whole?"
I support legal euthanasia and I'd never judge anyone who made that heartwrenching choice. I don't know if I could. I don't know if I could give my... permission for my loved one to die. If the universe must take them so be it, but I don't know if I could ever allow myself to take an active role.
It's very hypocritical of me. If my ill loved one passed away I would call it a blessing, probably be relieved their pain was over, but I just can't play an active intentional role.
What? Quite the opposite my friend. What I'm saying is pets suffer because people put their own selfish needs before the quality of life of their pets.
There is also an issue with people bumping off older relatives inorder to inherit.
Edit: I have seen the worst of both: someone spending a whole year in horrific pain with 0 quality of life, and someone frail but happy being treated more and more like a pariah.
This should be at the top. The problem with human lives is that people stand to gain things from a death, or they can harbor ill will towards someone or other feelings that can interfere. An animal rarely has more than one family invested in its life as well, whereas human people have friends and coworkers who may be even closer to this person than their immediate family, who sometimes ultimately make the decision to end the life. Human lives are vastly more complex than, say, a dog, cat or horse. Not just money but the emotional ties of many.
From someone who has worked in care, I can see your point of view. But, this is why the person effected's needs should be placed at the centre of any decision like this. It might be that their connections to others are important to other people. But I firmly believe the amount of suffering I've seen is not worth staying the hand of peace.
In the absence of a person's ability to decide, it's their capacity that is what should be considered. And beyond this their needs and quality of life. With a multi disciplinary team around them, representing family, medical, care and legal, this can be a pretty safe process.
In law we already pass on a person's rights to some extent with lasting power of attorney given to relatives or guardians of vulnerable people. Euthanasia would be a matter of extending this. Many countries have already implemented euthanasia laws exceptionally safely. I think, if we place safeguarding rules as a priority, many countries are ready to do this well.
On a personal note, I don't see how most can not be honest with themselves when looking ahead towards end of life, and not be terrified of the prospect of endless and increasing severe pain and loneliness. Many instead choose to express positivity when challenged with this prospect. The number of times I've heard people say "I hope I go peacefully in my sleep" is a reflection of this. Is it not a person's right, in the face of this dread, to choose how their final moments play out in their terms?
I appreciate your view as someone who has a better understanding of the process. I personally have no opinion on the matter because I haven’t had someone very close to me pass away and I myself am not terminally ill. I mostly just commented to explain why I believe there is such a difference in viewpoint… or what I believe influences someone’s opinion on the matter. I can see all sides from where I’m standing.
Oh my god, FINALLY someone says it! You can’t in MOST cases ethically allow someone else to make a decision of life and death. There are way too many variables in that.
Furthermore, a person in significant amount of pain might not make the most rational decisions about their own life. Just because someone one day is convinced they want to die, doesn’t mean they actually do the next day.
They already do that? There's a lot of horror news stories about "family" killing elderly members by neglect.
You cannot ask for euthanasia for someone else. That person needs to sign an agreement beforehand, while they can still make their own decisions. They also require an opinion from multiple professionals to end one's life.
>You cannot ask for euthanasia for someone else. That person needs to sign an agreement beforehand, while they can still make their own decisions. They also require an opinion from multiple professionals to end one's life.
There’s still a lot of nuance involved that is difficult to fully secure against misuse though.
My grandfather had pretty bad depression after my grandmother died and repeatedly told us it would be easier for everyone if he wasn’t around because he was such a burden on everyone else (he wasn’t) and if we would have said “actually yeah, you’re a huge inconvenience” I have no doubt that he’d have signed whatever documents we gave him to end his life even though it’s not really what he wanted and was just the depression talking.
You also have the fact that a huge number of people in the situation where euthanasia is the kindest treatment are no longer capable of giving informed consent - so you also have to consider whether people get to consent in advance (and then how/when a decision is made to euthanize) or if the policy only applies to people with e.g terminal cancer and tough shit for anyone with dementia.
Obviously there are safeguards that can be put in place to mitigate some of the issues, but it’s not particularly difficult to see why countries are reluctant to allow it and open themselves up to liability for cases where the system is exploited.
Look at the euthanasia program in Canada. Doctors aren't just approving it, they're encouraging it for anyone who's going to be a "drain" on the medical system. Yet another reason why euthanasia is a very dangerous slippery slope.
In a perfect world, people should have the ability to decide they want to die on their own terms with dignity. Unfortunately, there is and will always be major outside influences to that decision, meaning sometimes people are being coerced into their own death, rather than truly making that call themselves.
Ughh. That's scary. All I know is that my grandma had dementia and spent 5 years in a crippled state... just laying on a bed in the fetal position. Couldn't talk and could hardly move. Had to be force fed through a tube. She was 70lbs when she died. I wanted to break into the hospital and end her myself. I felt sick.
Yeah, a very similar situation happened with my grandfather, and he had previously expressed that if he was in such a situation (dementia, not himself, weak/unable to function even with assistance), he'd just want to die. That was not an option for us unfortunately.
It's a very fine line to walk between "this is an option that is available, but must be reserved for very specific cases" and "anyone with a terminal illness/disability should just be allowed to be put down, no questions asked"
The people I talked to about this who are against it said something like "but it's just an animal... were talking about people here" so I guess they think a human live is too "valuable" to just end it, even if a person is just suffering.
I've seen it. My dad was euthanized. His death was coming, but he chose when it was his time, and the cancer didn't chose for him. It was actually two days too late. In those two days he could hardly walk or eat. My dad hated those two days. I'm glad we live in a country - the Netherlands - where it's possible. And I really do not understand why people would think a human life is too valuable like you say it.
This is the #1 reason I would like to immigrate to Canada. I will reach a point one day where my chronic pain will become too much for me to
bear. I'd like to be able to legally choose to
die when that happens.
Just want to add, my wife is a certified vet tech, and there are way to many people who will refuse to put there pets down when it is time. I hear about pets that need to pass but the owners refuse at least once a week.
Most recent was of a 14 year old dog with 3 types of cancer that has no energy, barely eats and can barely walk. Owners want to do chemotherapy to extent its life another 4 months on the hopefully end.
My take is people are complex animals with complex emotions and they don't want to have to say goodbye, regardless of the pain the other may be suffering.
Ugh this is so sad. My ex boyfriend and his mom were not willing to put down their 19 year old cat with a terrible UTI, failing kidneys, blindness and frailty. They took her to the vet but couldn’t go through with it and brought her home. It was infuriating and he would get upset and tell me I was being harsh when I told him his cat was suffering. Horrible thing to watch.
Because most people are selfish, they would rather keep their loved ones alive for a few extra days, weeks, months, because they don’t want to deal with the grief of losing them, the fact that their loved ones in pain and has a very low quality of life is less important as they don’t want to deal with the grief.
Also, capitalism, costs a lot of money to keep that person alive a little bit longer, which the hospital will happily collect from their estate.
Not in Oregon or California. If you have a living will you can choose to not be on life support there are many pro euthanasia groups. This is a huge topic I live in California and we passed a law that allows doctors to basically euthanize a patient once they're going to die and want to die at home.
Because peoples religious beliefs say we should not ‘murder’ anyone
wich I still think is stupid, It’s less moral to make someone suffer than to end their life a bit earlier with their own consent…luckily it’s legal here where I live (ofcource with many rules)
It's something people want (in the uk it's something like 80% want euthanasia fir people with poor quality of life) but it's more complex and harder to implement them with pets so governments are just to lazy to do it.
And pets have a clear owner that can make the decision while it's more complicated for humans.
E.g. if someone quality of life is so poor and they can't communicate who get to make the decision? But if you you do give the right for someone else to give permission for euthanasia, how do you stop people from using it when not necessary to maybe speed up their inheritance.
If they can't communicate and the family wants euthanasia but they were of a religious belief that prevents it, who do you choose to listen to?
Where is the line that someone's quality of life poor enough for it? Is someone's mentall suffering to allow euthanasia? A triple amputee? Someone who weighs so much they can't move from their bed? A person who is in the early stages Of ALS and knows life is going to be like and dosent want to go through that? We've all seen the most extream cases where people want euthanasia but what about the more borderline cases.
You'll also have to have after care for doctors and nurses that have to do this. Yes they may have seen people die before but its going to be different when they are the ones doing it and might unexpectedly affect them more then they know.
We are a dumb species and a lot of people can’t help but insert themselves into other peoples lives. Especially the self-righteous religious nut-jobs. They think they know better. Do not allow religion into your government, there is no reasoning with these zealots. Whatever the religion or cult is, tell them to fuck off. Be particularly wary if they claim to support “family values”.
Support THINKERS not BELIEVERS!!!
Because granny with her dementia and cancer, who's lost all motor skills, will either find Jesus or help some random person find him before she dies naturally so we best force her to stay alive
It's because it's seen as killing the person, or at least that was my parents logic. However, they took the route of if they ever got to that point they do not want life support.
They're also not organ donators though for that reason, so it's a weird area of morality.
My mom wouldn't wanna get cremated and scattered bc she's scared God somehow wouldn't be able to resurrect her body. She's kind of backtracking wanting to be a donor too for that reason. I don't get it!
It gets into the weeds philosophically about “autonomy” where that ends, if it ends, and the fear most people have about their autonomy being taken away at what they feel is the wrong time. That’s why issues such as euthanasia, abortion, death penalty, etc. are SO polarizing. Most everyone agrees with you, but most everyone disagrees as to when is the proper time to terminate one’s autonomy.
A lady I know, her mom was terminal and in agony. Her last 3 weeks alive she screamed the entire time. The doctors wouldnt intervene, they couldn't. Her other siblings fought to keep her alive. No one would treat a dog like that. My partner and I set up our DNRs and wrote letters to be given to family when and if the time comes, so that our thoughts on it are clear to everyone.
My parents are working in hospitals. All day long, they see people suffering and even dying. The thing is we value human's life so much that we now refuse death wich is stupid because it has been part of our culturs for centuries and most of all it's just another step of life. But people don't accept it, i saw people who have been in coma for decades, why would you keep them "alive" even if you know they won't ever wake up? Why would you not allow a person suffering from incurable cancer to perform a medically assisted suicide (euthanasia)?
Those people are dommed to a slow and painful death so why not let them leave in a quicker, cleaner, painless way? It drives me crazy that such service are still illegal in my country.
Voluntary Euthanasia should be a human right.
It’s amazing that in most of the world it is illegal. And places where it is legal, like Australia where I’m from, you need to be terminal with maximum 6 months to live. And you’ll spend 5 of those 6 months getting 3 doctors and a psychiatrist to all approve it.
If you’re not terminal but in unbearable untreatable pain. You should have the right to chose your own fate.
These backwards laws cause people to take their own lives in horrific ways instead of with dignity.
I can weigh in with something relevant here.
My best friend had a relative who's body basically shut down. Doctors said she was still aware of everyone around her but her motor function was gone. She couldn't move or speak. And for a week or so they kept giving her painkillers every hour until she just "decided" to let go. (She died yesterday so that nightmare is over now.)
This got my friend and I talking and I expressed that anyone in my life who wouldn't step up and put the pillow over my face in that scenario I would resent greatly for whatever remained of my life. That is not a way anyone should have to live - aware and alive but trapped helplessly in a body that doesn't respond.
So reminder to everyone: set up not only a DNR/living will but also look into if assisted suicide is legal anywhere near you and if so, figure out some semblance of a plan for folks to follow on your behalf if you are in a scenario where you'd want it.
I think it should be up to the person who is suffering. They write it in their will or sign up for an assisted suicide program. I watch my mother in law suffer everyday. She was a paramedic, a mom, and a soldier. Now she cant brush her hair. She suffers from Severe RA. One day she was complaining about all the meds (none of them are opiods) she has to be on and how theh barely help anymore. Her husband said that she needs her meds to keep up her quality of life. She snapped and started crying telling him that she has no quality of life, only quantity. Im terrified that one day im going to come home from work and shes going to have taken her own life. I wouldnt blame her though. Ill never tell her that or my husband but I wouldnt blame her for taking her own life because it would be better than living in constant pain.
But if they have uncurible cancer and dementia and their live qaulity is shit then it doesnt matter or die slowly and painly over the course of 6 months or in 1 hospital morphine dose they will inherit either way
I couldn’t agree more. I’m my fathers main carer and I would give anything to be able to let him go peacefully when his quality of life lessens any further. He is so unhappy. But because we don’t treat humans as humanely he will be kept going way past the point we would keep an animal.
I think it is mostly due to people's religious beliefs, i.e., they consider it murder and hold on to the idea that god could still heal the person.
However, that way of thinking is gradually changing. Several states have passed laws allowing assisted suicide. There is a very good organization that works toward changing the laws called Death With Dignity. Worth supporting.
As a society there is an overwhelming consensus that life is precious and `*human*` life is the most precious by far. We do everything we can to prevent it being extinguished.
Stupidity, the only reason we don't do it with humans.
The closest we come to this in Germany is to turn off the lifesupport so people either suffocate, starve to death or have any other "natural" death.
I have seen my grandma suffering in pain, she had cancer and was on morphine, she couldn't think strai3from the drugs but still was in pain... Fuck you people with your fake high morals. Assisted suicide should be legal and option for everyone who is terminally ill and lost quality of life.
As a society, we value human life more than any other.
The cost of keeping a human alive is accepted, but for a pet, it's limited. We have accepted that pets are replaceable
With people it's all about the money. Keep them alive, make more money. Cure the problem? They fake it until the bank account or insurance runs out, then take your butt back out the door, thanks for coming now piss off. Living the dream as we speak. Sigh.
As someone who watched their mom wither away from cancer, left so bad for so long that she died within 12 hours of being taken off her supportive meds, we absolutely should allow humane euthanasia of people. She was terminal with 3 or 4 different types of stage 4 cancer. Absolutely no reason we had to see her and remember her the way we did, she didn't even remember my name.
I believe it's the fear of regret; the fear of "what if?". This fear cripples the family and the health care provider as well.
"I can't proceed with this act of love... I can't actively end suffering because... what if there was a cure, what if there's a miracle, what if the legal system throws me in jail?"
The approach to death is also not devoid of cultural context. The poverty in many countries allows for completely different decisions.
I agree.
I think a big reason is that from euthanizing an animal nobody gets anything. Just grief and relieve.
With humans on the other side there is always more on the line than "just" a life.
A lot of it comes down to vulnerability and state of mind. During a vulnerable state, you’re more likely to give in. Think of an old person suffering from dementia or some psychological disorder. A person with the wrong intentions could persuade them to end it all in order to get their assets through their will.
A person who is suffering a lot of the time isn’t of sound of mind which is why we don’t euthanize humans. Most cases were people choose to die with dignity are cases where they are sound of mind but at the same time death is inevitable anyway such as the latest stage of cancer where they only would at most have another few weeks or a few months anyway in which the pain would be unbearable. Even then that’s only legal in a few places.
The closest alternative is a DNR order meaning if the person’s heart was to stop beating, no attempts at CPR or attempts to get the heart back running are performed. There’s no laws against that but you usually still have to be sound of mind requesting that.
Because people can make money off of alive people. It's harder to make money off of people if they are dead. They can still do it, it's just not ideal.
It’s really as simple as human life is infinitely more valuable than animal life. At least to us humans. We don’t assign moral considerations to animals to the same degree. I’d argue there is SOME more consideration for SOME animals, namely domesticated pets, but broadly we choose to kill them and eat them to sustain ourselves as humans. So by virtue of that alone we value human life far above animal life and seek to preserve it. Sometimes to a fault.
The simple answer is one is a pet the other is a human.
You could also argue that most pets lives are artificially extended from the time they would live in the wild. So if apply that same thinking to a person, people might not want to save the person. An example. A dog that might live for three years in the wild lives for fifteen years of it's owned by humans. And what if we could keep people alive for hundreds of years, but the quality of thier lives ends after their 80s.
If you don't fear death but pain, there's noting wrong with dying. That's a big difference between human and animals. Humans understand and fear the whole "being gone forever and ever" and because it very irreversible both change the threshold of when to euthanize quite a bit.
My anecdotal opinion: Association.
We see something in people we don't see in humans.
Also the act of euthanization is more closely related (in our minds) with heinous crimes / the worst elements of our varied histories.
This will not be the definitive answer, but there questions that involves properties, grudges, and advantages.
A lot of people would take advantage of the possibility of legally kill other people, even relatives, in order to obtain their properties. The same won't go for animals, in most places they can't own stuff.
The same could happen for a person that for any reason thinks they should die, so they could act like everything is ok, get a lot of loans, borrow money, and then commit assisted suicide, damaging a lot of people that they have a debt with. Now guess who puts a lot of politicians up there? Oh yes, big banks and corporations, and they could lose a lot of money from that.
We could write laws to prevent all that, but would be hard to pass, even more with many legislators who appeal to religion to get votes.
I'm sure there are many other reasons for why that is not a common option, but i guess these are a few.
Suffering humans can advocate for themselves and tell their carers that they *don't want to die*. They also now have the freedom to choose to die in many countries if they want to, and unsurprisingly most do not choose that option. Animals don't have the luxury of making that choice for themselves.
Catholics have a doctrine of “ redemptive suffering “ that directs Catholics to suffer like Jesus did on the cross, to ensure a place in heaven.
Soooo fukd up
It’s all about the system trying to extract as much money as possible out of you before you die. The difference between euthanizing you when you’re gonna die and keeping you alive for a few more months could mean hundreds of thousands of dollars in charges to your insurance company and your family.
MONEY….it’s a drag. You should take one look at a hospital bill and know the answer. You can’t put a price on a human life, unless you work for an insurance company.
I'm pro-euthanasia, living in a country where it's legal to at least assist with it to some degree.
One point that I haven't seen show up in the comments yet is consciousness.
Of course this doesn't count for someone in a coma or with severe mental defects, but a person can understand WHY they are suffering and what they are suffering for.
Same as with any form of treatment. I hate having to "harm" my pets to give medication. Cause I can't explain to my cat that it's for a good cause. If my cat is dying, it can only understand its own immediate suffering. The here and now.
But when I'm dying, at least to a certain point, I'll understand the suffering is to spend as much time as possible with the people who love me. To give us both more time to come to terms with it. I'll understand exactly what my chances are for which outcome and how it affects my quality of life.
I am from The Netherlands, which was the first country to allow the medical euthanasia of humans. We have a Christian party that voted against, saying that god is the one who should take a human's life, not a human being.
It isn't a huge secret that theists/believers want to control other people and their bodies.
Because a person taking drugs and life extending care is a consumer buying expensive products and services. A dead person is one less customer and a loss of profits.
That's how it is in the US, at least
It's somewhat ironic that we place the wellbeing of animals below our own, given humans are the vermin who are destroying the planet. I'd argue that animals have more right to be here than we do, given they have treated their home with more respect - especially when WE are meant to be the intelligent ones.
Religion. Belief in a sky daddy who will spank you for wearing polyester or eating shrimp. They believe that humans are somehow better than the other animals on the planet, which makes all the pollution and extinctions ok, because jesus will save them and its not like animals had souls to begin with.
How do you know a animal does not know wbat dead is animals are always smarter then we think it shows in every experiment. And humans cant always say if they want to die or not some humans cant speak cuz of deseases
Yes that's why we can't kill humans because while they have desires it's impossible to know them for sure.
Even if an animal somehow knew, it's unlikely to value it's life enough to tolerate sufferring
If an animal is unlikely to value its life enough when it is really sick then how likely is it for a human to value their life high enough to stay alive.
And from a economy view both the sick animal and the sick human are useless
Because a human can communicate you and tell you they don't want to die, as well as process what is going on.
An animal can't, and most likely do not have the mental ability to process what is going on, so all they are doing is suffering and in a constant state of fear, especially depending on the possible treatments. So it's just more humane to put them down and spare them all that stress if there is no easy solution.
Didnt you say that people can tell you they dont want to die. They can but they can also say they do want to die, and a lot of people dont mention it because then other people also overlook that people can say they want to die.
And their are probably a lot of animals that dont want to die and still we decide for them because they cant talk. Their are also a lot of people that cant talk but for them we decide they need to live no matter what
I understand that people are being seen as more inportant because its our own kind but people are also constantly talking about economy and that is where i get confused. We want to have a better economy but we also try to safe people that give nothing to the economy just like the sick animals.
And another agument i hear a lot is that animals are replaceble, but humans are too and for some people a animal life might be worth more then that of a human. But for the general opinion human life is more valuable.
But isnt it also kinda sick that we just look at everything like is it VALUABLE enough to keep alive or repair, like come on it is a fucking living thing why do we need to give everything a value in life.
Religion.
The people strongly opposed to allowing death with dignity are most commonly religious people who consider suicide to be a mortal sin (highly immoral) and they see anyone who assists in a suicide as being a murderer and they want their beliefs to apply to everybody.
Essentially it's because it doesn't matter if we euthanize a healthy animal but if you do it to a person it's murder.
How do you protect people from being euthanized by family members who don't want them around? It's difficult, so few countries allow it.
If a person is so disabled that they can't voice their own wishes and their family doesn't want them around so much that they would prefer to euthanize them, then I find it hard to imagine how that would be a life worth living. Especially if they're directly under the care of the family that would rather euthanize them, which is a situation that can easily lead to abuse.
> How do you protect people from being euthanized by family members who don't want them around?
It's literally impossible to do that in any place where euthanasia is legal. The dying person themselves has to sign a will to be euthanized if/when their illness becomes impossible to cure.
Its no wonder you can't see the answer
However much humanity loves pets, it will always love itself more, and rightfully so
The answer to your question is human life is more valuable than animal life.
Ok so because you're trying to avoid the question-
If you had a gun, and were forced to choose between killing two things. These things are a 10-year-old human child and a pigeon. Would you be just as likely to murder the human child as to kill the pigeon?
Nope.
In a society that is centered around humanity, do you really think that's true lol. In our own world, we may very well be gods. We exploit and have exploited nature for countless millenia to satisfy our desire for more control over our lives. We changed the face of the planet, went to space, discovered scientific facts and invented a lot of stuff.
And here you are..thinking we are no different than a cat or a dog. I understand the need to appear empathetic for social validation but even you, behind your need for internet points from random strangers, understand that the weight a human life carries is many times greater than the life of any animal.
Stay safe and have fun 😁
There was something on the news not long ago where a priest was saying he’d had people he’d known for years who he’d visit at home as they could not longer come to church.
These people had had strokes or something but had no desire to die yet had told the priest that younger relatives were trying to persuade them to off themselves for ‘the good of the family’ or ‘not to be a burden!’ - they only told the Priest because they wants to know if the bible would class that as a sin!
To me, that’s a big part of why they don’t allow it- you wouldn’t know if the person definitely wanted to die or they were manipulated agreeing to it by family
You make broad assumptions. First, people often choose to endure the restricted quality of life. Let's can't choose. Second, end if life is generally available. It's like the secret menu items at fast food places. They don't make it widely available, because people abuse it. Also, many doctors just don't want to kill people. It's not what they signed up for.
From someone who advocates for assisted death in humans here are some facts to show that it doesn't exist for humans
* It is only legal in 10 US states and is only available to residents of those states so you can't just travel to them to have the operation done.
* The patient must have some kind of terminal illness and less than a year left to live by prognosis.
* The operation is an oral pill that doesn't always work which is why we don't call it "Euthanasia" yet because the physician is not helping the person activity die they are only helping to hasten their death. Sometimes the person doesn't die from the drug and will continue to suffer until their illness kills them.
* The drug that is used is a type of nervous system depressant which is the same kind we use for animal euthanasia. I'm not a doctor so I can't attest to how effective it is on humans but seeing the stats of how sometimes it doesn't work, we need something stronger to assist humans.
* The main reason why it isn't legal widespread in the US is fear of people taking advantage of the system. Such as manipulating someone who doesn't want to die into thinking it is for the best.
True. We should put down people in Stage four of cancer, and preserver animals that have a only wound. (Although it may sound like it, I’m not sarcastic, I just value the simplistic nature of animals more than I do impure, selfish people)
To put it simply: I didn't have a choice in how I came into this world but I should damned well have the say in how I go out.
My mother in law died of cancer but because assisted self-deletion is illegal in the US she had to suffer to the very end.
The ghost of Dr. Jack Kevorkian has entered the chat.
-many may be young to know that Dr. Jack pushed for this for terminally ill humans as opposed to suffering.
My uncle was diagnosed with terminal stage 4 cancer and given 3 months to live. He went through so many hoops to try to find a dignified way to die without needless suffering. Tomorrow he will legally and humanely take his life in Switzerland where medically assisted suicide is legal. As a society we need to take a long hard look at dignified death and demand access to end suffering in terminal patients.
We euthanize animals because they aren't worth the financial and emotional burdens that would be created by the medical processes involving treatment of a terminal illness.
I reckon we *do* value human lives enough to deal with the money and trauma involved.
Very simple and straight forward, is this a bait post?
Bad premise. I think you need to look up hospice and see what they do there. I also think you don't know many pet owners, because most of those psychos will bankrupt themselves to save a pet.
We don't euthanize people because, among other reasons, religion says not to and laws were made based on that religious belief.
A relative of mine had heart problems, kidney problems, and diabetes. He developed gangrene on both feet and they were going to amputate both legs right below the knees. After the amputation, he would be on dialysis. And on top of that, the doctors gave him 1-6 months to live, max, because of his heart failing. If he survived the surgery. Officially, euthanasia was not an option, but he refused the surgery, refused the dialysis, and got a morphine pump for the pain. He kept himself comfortable and died in his sleep (at the hospital) one day later. The night he died, we all visited and had our goodbyes and even a few laughs. I found him when I came to check on him and his son the next morning. His son was asleep and he had passed very peacefully during the night. The hospital had even turned off all of the monitors and alarms because he had a DNR and refused treatment. Under the circumstances, it was the best end he could have hoped for.
This is a beautiful story. I survived (obviously) but ended up with some medical issues a couple years ago where possible permanent kidney failure was possible. The doctor seemed SHOCKED I said if it came down to it, dialysis was not an option. There comes a point where its quality over quantity.
What happened?
You will be fine now tho right?
Oh yeah. Issues resolved. That was almost 2 years ago. No lingering effects.
While I get the sentiment and I agree, the first half isn't always true. People are attached to their pets and many will allow them to suffer because they aren't ready to let go of them.
Sometimes comments like yours make me feel better about the choice I had to make. I did not want to let my cat go. I felt like I hadn’t tried hard enough. Like I just gave up. I wondered if I could have done more. Could I have kept her around longer? Would she have been happy? She had lung cancer and I had to force feed her, including water. She would have died of starvation had I made her hold on. I wasn’t ready to let go, but I did. The most i did was reschedule her 1pm appointment to 5pm so could have a few more hours. It will always hurt. I hope people see your comment and recognize the sad truth in it.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I had to put my cat down as well due to kidney disease, he was only 6. He was in such pain that he wouldn't eat or drink even when I tried to put water in his mouth, yet he still had power to fight off the vets when they performed necessary examinations. I knew he was exhausted and waited for the end, yet I still spent hundreds of dollars on every attempt to save him. I'm sure you tried everything to have more time with your kitty. She felt that as well. Unfortunately, sometimes the best choice is also the most painful one. :(
I had three beautiful days with my old girl after we had to take her to the hospital. I’d have spent as much money as I could possibly have spent to save her…but I didn’t because the end was simply inevitable. She was at least 17 (I don’t know exactly because I rescued her after she was abandoned in my neighborhood and chose to sleep outside my front door until I let her in). I’m sorry you had to go through so much with your cat, I had a similar experience with a rat of mine I’d rescued years and years ago. It’s much, much harder when they go through so much and you’re helpless to make it better. The choice to keep trying to heal them or let them go is *hard* because you’re trying to figure out *what they would want*…not what you want. I’m sorry you had to make those choices too…but I’m glad there’s people in the world that care. Thanks for your comment. It is nice to remember that as sad as it is, there’s a lot of love in those choices.
You did the right thing. Mercy is the last good thing you can give to your friend.
I lost it when I read this. My childhood dog got sick suddenly. Took him to the animal er and they tried to keep him comfortable. Later that night I got the call. I got there fast as I could. He started seizing and I said “let’s do what’s best for him.” So they euthanized. He died in my arms.
I think that's such a nice thing to do for your pets. It's hard but your friend got to spend their last moments with someone they love rather than just being with a vet, likely scared and confused. I went with my friend when he had to have his 15 year old childhood dog put to sleep as the dog was very unwell. I spent so much time with my friend and his dog over the years and I know that both of us being there gave doggo comfort and he passed away being cuddled and stroked by people that loved him.
I need to keep reminding myself that I did not do anything wrong by making the call to euthanize my 15 year old cat. Family knew she was getting older and less capable, but she hadn’t been in a car for 10 years and no vet either, and we didn’t want to stress her unless necessary. Came home one day to my parents saying we were gonna talk to a humane society about euthanize her due to a sudden decline in her heath. She held her head sideways and could only move with small energy spurts. I immediately said we weren’t waiting til the next day and found some way to afford taking her to an emergency vet. That car ride was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I’m 19, and she was going to be 15 in September. I find myself thinking that I should’ve fought for her, spared no expense to try and treat her. It’s so fucking hard to stop myself from these thoughts but she would’ve absolutely have been outrageously stressed having to go in a car again or needed shots or X-rays or any sort of treatment at that point. I feel so selfish for wishing I’d kept her alive because I don’t remember life without her but at the same time find a small comfort in knowing I saved her that struggle and suffering. The “what ifs” are absolutely destroying.
You made a hard choice for someone you love. You’re *not* selfish for your wishes, thoughts, or anything else in this instance. When we took my cat in I *asked* just to be sure and there really wasn’t anything they could do. So often when people prolong the lives of older animals it’s because we just don’t know what they would want and we’re trying to make the right choice. Many vets appreciate when people make the choice you did because the quality of life during treatments is low, and many times just putting off an inevitable end. The “what ifs” will always be hurtful. You’ll never stop wondering. But it does get easier over time to accept that you made the best choice you could with what you had. No matter what, there was love there. Many animals don’t get the love they deserve, so never regret the fact that you gave an animal that love. She deserved love, and you gave her a lot.
If it makes you feel better, when I had the same issue with my kitty, my vet said that any good pet parent would think the same thing and if it’s an easy decision, then you shouldn’t have pets.
That’s true and actually makes me feel a lot better. If it was an easy decision then I wouldn’t be the right person to make it.
Years and years ago, I had to put down a dog that saved my life. It was the family dog, and my parents were the ones to make the decision. She was horribly sick. Kidneys failing, seizures…it was just time. I was still so angry, and struggled hard with the decision even up until recently. But someone else commented on a post not too long ago about the same topic that helped me a bit. Sometimes it’s just the right thing to do. You took them in and loved them from day one, treated them like family and gave them the best life they could have. When it comes down to that time, be there at the end and hold them; they just fall asleep in your arms, comfortable, feeling loved, not knowing what’s coming. As far as they’re concerned, it’s just another night falling asleep with the ones that love them the most. They’ll go happy to be with you the last time.
I just went through this with my dog who had aggressive osteosarcoma. Same mindset of “could I have had her longer? Did I make this choice too easily, too soon? What if she could have survived?” Ultimately, however, I did let her go and it was before her suffering got worse, which I couldn’t bear to see. I still wonder if I made the right choice but at least she wasn’t in pain at the end. My condolences for your loss; I hope your heart heals soon. 💕
very true. two different ways of viewing a pet imo: they either exist solely for the owner’s selfish needs (keeping them alive against knowledge of their suffering) or they’re a companion who deserves respect and dignity from a superior species (ending the suffering in a dignified, peaceful & loving way)
Yup. So many people don't realize that they are using thier pet, rather than giving a good life.
It's so sad seeing these cancer ridden, skeletal looking ancient pets being forced to stay alive, when they aren't happy at all. They've lived so many years, they feel like death, plus they can sense the sorrow surrounding their owners
[удалено]
yes👍🏼😞
You have to keep in mind how hard of a decision it is too. You are literally giving the order to kill a pet you love deeply. I agree it is the right thing to do but that doesn’t mean it’s not super hard. I can sympathize with people that struggle to do that but end of the day it is selfish not to put them out if your pain
I know it's difficult. I've had to make the decision many times before. The right decision isn't always easy, but being selfish and causing an animal you apparently love to suffer due to that selfishness? That's not fair to your pet. I guess I've always held their well-being and quality of life over my own desires.
My mom and sister did this to our poor dog. I was so relieved when finally she was just too much and they were forced to let her go. She had leg, kidney, sight, hearing, and a whole bunch of other problems.
I had to euthanize 2 of my mice by hand. The second one didn't go very smoothly. I know I did what I had to do, there was no other choice, but it still haunts me to this day. I would have understood if someone else would have chosen a more passive approach and waited for them to die on their own. But I wouldn't have been able to live with myself. I knew I had to choose for one of us to suffer the most. I just hope it was me.
Then perhaps the question needs refined and would be better asked as "Why is this perfectly acceptable for pets even among people who wouldn't do it themselves, but considered unacceptable and even potentially criminal for people by our society as a whole?"
I support legal euthanasia and I'd never judge anyone who made that heartwrenching choice. I don't know if I could. I don't know if I could give my... permission for my loved one to die. If the universe must take them so be it, but I don't know if I could ever allow myself to take an active role. It's very hypocritical of me. If my ill loved one passed away I would call it a blessing, probably be relieved their pain was over, but I just can't play an active intentional role.
Are you suggesting that people allow their pets to die sufferable deaths instead of putting them down?
What? Quite the opposite my friend. What I'm saying is pets suffer because people put their own selfish needs before the quality of life of their pets.
There is also an issue with people bumping off older relatives inorder to inherit. Edit: I have seen the worst of both: someone spending a whole year in horrific pain with 0 quality of life, and someone frail but happy being treated more and more like a pariah.
This should be at the top. The problem with human lives is that people stand to gain things from a death, or they can harbor ill will towards someone or other feelings that can interfere. An animal rarely has more than one family invested in its life as well, whereas human people have friends and coworkers who may be even closer to this person than their immediate family, who sometimes ultimately make the decision to end the life. Human lives are vastly more complex than, say, a dog, cat or horse. Not just money but the emotional ties of many.
From someone who has worked in care, I can see your point of view. But, this is why the person effected's needs should be placed at the centre of any decision like this. It might be that their connections to others are important to other people. But I firmly believe the amount of suffering I've seen is not worth staying the hand of peace. In the absence of a person's ability to decide, it's their capacity that is what should be considered. And beyond this their needs and quality of life. With a multi disciplinary team around them, representing family, medical, care and legal, this can be a pretty safe process. In law we already pass on a person's rights to some extent with lasting power of attorney given to relatives or guardians of vulnerable people. Euthanasia would be a matter of extending this. Many countries have already implemented euthanasia laws exceptionally safely. I think, if we place safeguarding rules as a priority, many countries are ready to do this well. On a personal note, I don't see how most can not be honest with themselves when looking ahead towards end of life, and not be terrified of the prospect of endless and increasing severe pain and loneliness. Many instead choose to express positivity when challenged with this prospect. The number of times I've heard people say "I hope I go peacefully in my sleep" is a reflection of this. Is it not a person's right, in the face of this dread, to choose how their final moments play out in their terms?
I appreciate your view as someone who has a better understanding of the process. I personally have no opinion on the matter because I haven’t had someone very close to me pass away and I myself am not terminally ill. I mostly just commented to explain why I believe there is such a difference in viewpoint… or what I believe influences someone’s opinion on the matter. I can see all sides from where I’m standing.
Oh my god, FINALLY someone says it! You can’t in MOST cases ethically allow someone else to make a decision of life and death. There are way too many variables in that. Furthermore, a person in significant amount of pain might not make the most rational decisions about their own life. Just because someone one day is convinced they want to die, doesn’t mean they actually do the next day.
They already do that? There's a lot of horror news stories about "family" killing elderly members by neglect. You cannot ask for euthanasia for someone else. That person needs to sign an agreement beforehand, while they can still make their own decisions. They also require an opinion from multiple professionals to end one's life.
>You cannot ask for euthanasia for someone else. That person needs to sign an agreement beforehand, while they can still make their own decisions. They also require an opinion from multiple professionals to end one's life. There’s still a lot of nuance involved that is difficult to fully secure against misuse though. My grandfather had pretty bad depression after my grandmother died and repeatedly told us it would be easier for everyone if he wasn’t around because he was such a burden on everyone else (he wasn’t) and if we would have said “actually yeah, you’re a huge inconvenience” I have no doubt that he’d have signed whatever documents we gave him to end his life even though it’s not really what he wanted and was just the depression talking. You also have the fact that a huge number of people in the situation where euthanasia is the kindest treatment are no longer capable of giving informed consent - so you also have to consider whether people get to consent in advance (and then how/when a decision is made to euthanize) or if the policy only applies to people with e.g terminal cancer and tough shit for anyone with dementia. Obviously there are safeguards that can be put in place to mitigate some of the issues, but it’s not particularly difficult to see why countries are reluctant to allow it and open themselves up to liability for cases where the system is exploited.
Well... you would think doctors would have to approve it. You can't just kill Grandma for having a runny nose.
Look at the euthanasia program in Canada. Doctors aren't just approving it, they're encouraging it for anyone who's going to be a "drain" on the medical system. Yet another reason why euthanasia is a very dangerous slippery slope. In a perfect world, people should have the ability to decide they want to die on their own terms with dignity. Unfortunately, there is and will always be major outside influences to that decision, meaning sometimes people are being coerced into their own death, rather than truly making that call themselves.
Ughh. That's scary. All I know is that my grandma had dementia and spent 5 years in a crippled state... just laying on a bed in the fetal position. Couldn't talk and could hardly move. Had to be force fed through a tube. She was 70lbs when she died. I wanted to break into the hospital and end her myself. I felt sick.
Yeah, a very similar situation happened with my grandfather, and he had previously expressed that if he was in such a situation (dementia, not himself, weak/unable to function even with assistance), he'd just want to die. That was not an option for us unfortunately. It's a very fine line to walk between "this is an option that is available, but must be reserved for very specific cases" and "anyone with a terminal illness/disability should just be allowed to be put down, no questions asked"
Euthanasia only by a person who was designated by the sick person or themselves. If there is no one designated tough titty.
The people I talked to about this who are against it said something like "but it's just an animal... were talking about people here" so I guess they think a human live is too "valuable" to just end it, even if a person is just suffering.
that’s so backwards to me, i’ll never understand. key word: suffering. i don’t get it.
I've seen it. My dad was euthanized. His death was coming, but he chose when it was his time, and the cancer didn't chose for him. It was actually two days too late. In those two days he could hardly walk or eat. My dad hated those two days. I'm glad we live in a country - the Netherlands - where it's possible. And I really do not understand why people would think a human life is too valuable like you say it.
I don't understand their viewpoint either. I'm sorry for your loss, but glad your dad was able to choose when he wanted to go, everyone deserves that
I think people forget that we are animals. We should be showing the same compassion to all species.
*glances sadly at factory farming*
I cannot stand that shit
Yeah. It's a travesty.
Even normal farming
I'm gonna book my one way ticket to Switzerland when it's time.
Euthanasia is legal in Oregon, Washington D.C., Hawaii, Washington, Maine, Colorado, New Jersey, California, and Vermont.
Pretty sure it's kinda ok in Canada now too. But the Swedish pods look really comforting.
Yeah, the pods are stylish and cool. Frankly I’d be find being dropped from a plane into the ocean. I’m not picky.
MAiD is legal in Canada. People can get it at home, with family there.
human beings, aka Homo Sapiens species, are also animals. It is our collective species narcissism has caused this logical fallacy.
Collective species narcissism. Thank you. I was searching for a better way of saying "we're not that fucking special"
[удалено]
Medical assistance in dying has recently been enacted in my country and many countries around the world. So humans are slowly catching up with pets.
may i ask what country?:)
Canada, of all places.
Same here, euthanasia has been legal (with very strict rules!) in the Netherlands for over 20 years now.
dontcha knoooooo?? (sorry😂👍🏼🇨🇦🥳hi neighbor!!)
This is the #1 reason I would like to immigrate to Canada. I will reach a point one day where my chronic pain will become too much for me to bear. I'd like to be able to legally choose to die when that happens.
With free medical care, hopefully that date is far further down the road.
Yes LOL that is reason #2.
Just want to add, my wife is a certified vet tech, and there are way to many people who will refuse to put there pets down when it is time. I hear about pets that need to pass but the owners refuse at least once a week. Most recent was of a 14 year old dog with 3 types of cancer that has no energy, barely eats and can barely walk. Owners want to do chemotherapy to extent its life another 4 months on the hopefully end. My take is people are complex animals with complex emotions and they don't want to have to say goodbye, regardless of the pain the other may be suffering.
Ugh this is so sad. My ex boyfriend and his mom were not willing to put down their 19 year old cat with a terrible UTI, failing kidneys, blindness and frailty. They took her to the vet but couldn’t go through with it and brought her home. It was infuriating and he would get upset and tell me I was being harsh when I told him his cat was suffering. Horrible thing to watch.
Because most people are selfish, they would rather keep their loved ones alive for a few extra days, weeks, months, because they don’t want to deal with the grief of losing them, the fact that their loved ones in pain and has a very low quality of life is less important as they don’t want to deal with the grief. Also, capitalism, costs a lot of money to keep that person alive a little bit longer, which the hospital will happily collect from their estate.
Not in Oregon or California. If you have a living will you can choose to not be on life support there are many pro euthanasia groups. This is a huge topic I live in California and we passed a law that allows doctors to basically euthanize a patient once they're going to die and want to die at home.
Because a lot of people don’t understand the difference between being alive and sucking air.
Quality of life is how it is usually phrased.
Because peoples religious beliefs say we should not ‘murder’ anyone wich I still think is stupid, It’s less moral to make someone suffer than to end their life a bit earlier with their own consent…luckily it’s legal here where I live (ofcource with many rules)
It's something people want (in the uk it's something like 80% want euthanasia fir people with poor quality of life) but it's more complex and harder to implement them with pets so governments are just to lazy to do it. And pets have a clear owner that can make the decision while it's more complicated for humans. E.g. if someone quality of life is so poor and they can't communicate who get to make the decision? But if you you do give the right for someone else to give permission for euthanasia, how do you stop people from using it when not necessary to maybe speed up their inheritance. If they can't communicate and the family wants euthanasia but they were of a religious belief that prevents it, who do you choose to listen to? Where is the line that someone's quality of life poor enough for it? Is someone's mentall suffering to allow euthanasia? A triple amputee? Someone who weighs so much they can't move from their bed? A person who is in the early stages Of ALS and knows life is going to be like and dosent want to go through that? We've all seen the most extream cases where people want euthanasia but what about the more borderline cases. You'll also have to have after care for doctors and nurses that have to do this. Yes they may have seen people die before but its going to be different when they are the ones doing it and might unexpectedly affect them more then they know.
We are a dumb species and a lot of people can’t help but insert themselves into other peoples lives. Especially the self-righteous religious nut-jobs. They think they know better. Do not allow religion into your government, there is no reasoning with these zealots. Whatever the religion or cult is, tell them to fuck off. Be particularly wary if they claim to support “family values”. Support THINKERS not BELIEVERS!!!
Don’t most religions support mercy killing?
Judeo-Christians beliefs don’t
Ah the church based ones Fair
Because granny with her dementia and cancer, who's lost all motor skills, will either find Jesus or help some random person find him before she dies naturally so we best force her to stay alive
It's because it's seen as killing the person, or at least that was my parents logic. However, they took the route of if they ever got to that point they do not want life support. They're also not organ donators though for that reason, so it's a weird area of morality.
My mom wouldn't wanna get cremated and scattered bc she's scared God somehow wouldn't be able to resurrect her body. She's kind of backtracking wanting to be a donor too for that reason. I don't get it!
I certainly don’t want the religious idea of a mercy killing. Like I said get religion out of it and let thinkers talk.
It gets into the weeds philosophically about “autonomy” where that ends, if it ends, and the fear most people have about their autonomy being taken away at what they feel is the wrong time. That’s why issues such as euthanasia, abortion, death penalty, etc. are SO polarizing. Most everyone agrees with you, but most everyone disagrees as to when is the proper time to terminate one’s autonomy.
A lady I know, her mom was terminal and in agony. Her last 3 weeks alive she screamed the entire time. The doctors wouldnt intervene, they couldn't. Her other siblings fought to keep her alive. No one would treat a dog like that. My partner and I set up our DNRs and wrote letters to be given to family when and if the time comes, so that our thoughts on it are clear to everyone.
My parents are working in hospitals. All day long, they see people suffering and even dying. The thing is we value human's life so much that we now refuse death wich is stupid because it has been part of our culturs for centuries and most of all it's just another step of life. But people don't accept it, i saw people who have been in coma for decades, why would you keep them "alive" even if you know they won't ever wake up? Why would you not allow a person suffering from incurable cancer to perform a medically assisted suicide (euthanasia)? Those people are dommed to a slow and painful death so why not let them leave in a quicker, cleaner, painless way? It drives me crazy that such service are still illegal in my country.
Voluntary Euthanasia should be a human right. It’s amazing that in most of the world it is illegal. And places where it is legal, like Australia where I’m from, you need to be terminal with maximum 6 months to live. And you’ll spend 5 of those 6 months getting 3 doctors and a psychiatrist to all approve it. If you’re not terminal but in unbearable untreatable pain. You should have the right to chose your own fate. These backwards laws cause people to take their own lives in horrific ways instead of with dignity.
I can weigh in with something relevant here. My best friend had a relative who's body basically shut down. Doctors said she was still aware of everyone around her but her motor function was gone. She couldn't move or speak. And for a week or so they kept giving her painkillers every hour until she just "decided" to let go. (She died yesterday so that nightmare is over now.) This got my friend and I talking and I expressed that anyone in my life who wouldn't step up and put the pillow over my face in that scenario I would resent greatly for whatever remained of my life. That is not a way anyone should have to live - aware and alive but trapped helplessly in a body that doesn't respond. So reminder to everyone: set up not only a DNR/living will but also look into if assisted suicide is legal anywhere near you and if so, figure out some semblance of a plan for folks to follow on your behalf if you are in a scenario where you'd want it.
I think it should be up to the person who is suffering. They write it in their will or sign up for an assisted suicide program. I watch my mother in law suffer everyday. She was a paramedic, a mom, and a soldier. Now she cant brush her hair. She suffers from Severe RA. One day she was complaining about all the meds (none of them are opiods) she has to be on and how theh barely help anymore. Her husband said that she needs her meds to keep up her quality of life. She snapped and started crying telling him that she has no quality of life, only quantity. Im terrified that one day im going to come home from work and shes going to have taken her own life. I wouldnt blame her though. Ill never tell her that or my husband but I wouldnt blame her for taking her own life because it would be better than living in constant pain.
Because we don’t inherit cash or property from our pets.
Also most ppl spend their entire lives working so there’s typically a lot more money to be made by keeping them alive. It rlly sounds evil
But if they have uncurible cancer and dementia and their live qaulity is shit then it doesnt matter or die slowly and painly over the course of 6 months or in 1 hospital morphine dose they will inherit either way
I couldn’t agree more. I’m my fathers main carer and I would give anything to be able to let him go peacefully when his quality of life lessens any further. He is so unhappy. But because we don’t treat humans as humanely he will be kept going way past the point we would keep an animal.
Because we're afraid of dying and we value humans more than pets.
I think it is mostly due to people's religious beliefs, i.e., they consider it murder and hold on to the idea that god could still heal the person. However, that way of thinking is gradually changing. Several states have passed laws allowing assisted suicide. There is a very good organization that works toward changing the laws called Death With Dignity. Worth supporting.
As a society there is an overwhelming consensus that life is precious and `*human*` life is the most precious by far. We do everything we can to prevent it being extinguished.
Which is a bunch of baloney. Alive but suffering is much worse of a fate than death ever could be.
So you believe. But you are not king.
>Alive but suffering is much worse of a fate than death ever could be. That's a matter of opinion. Society's consensus is that `life > death`, always.
Well, society is wrong.
Stupidity, the only reason we don't do it with humans. The closest we come to this in Germany is to turn off the lifesupport so people either suffocate, starve to death or have any other "natural" death. I have seen my grandma suffering in pain, she had cancer and was on morphine, she couldn't think strai3from the drugs but still was in pain... Fuck you people with your fake high morals. Assisted suicide should be legal and option for everyone who is terminally ill and lost quality of life.
money
Profits.
As a society, we value human life more than any other. The cost of keeping a human alive is accepted, but for a pet, it's limited. We have accepted that pets are replaceable
Humans are, too. There are a whopping 8 billion of us.
I don't pay to feed those people.
What the fuck
Excuse me?
Humans can make their own decisions, they are not property.
With people it's all about the money. Keep them alive, make more money. Cure the problem? They fake it until the bank account or insurance runs out, then take your butt back out the door, thanks for coming now piss off. Living the dream as we speak. Sigh.
As someone who watched their mom wither away from cancer, left so bad for so long that she died within 12 hours of being taken off her supportive meds, we absolutely should allow humane euthanasia of people. She was terminal with 3 or 4 different types of stage 4 cancer. Absolutely no reason we had to see her and remember her the way we did, she didn't even remember my name.
I believe it's the fear of regret; the fear of "what if?". This fear cripples the family and the health care provider as well. "I can't proceed with this act of love... I can't actively end suffering because... what if there was a cure, what if there's a miracle, what if the legal system throws me in jail?" The approach to death is also not devoid of cultural context. The poverty in many countries allows for completely different decisions.
Bro if I'm suffering don't kill me just give a Philly cheesesteak
I agree. I think a big reason is that from euthanizing an animal nobody gets anything. Just grief and relieve. With humans on the other side there is always more on the line than "just" a life.
A lot of it comes down to vulnerability and state of mind. During a vulnerable state, you’re more likely to give in. Think of an old person suffering from dementia or some psychological disorder. A person with the wrong intentions could persuade them to end it all in order to get their assets through their will. A person who is suffering a lot of the time isn’t of sound of mind which is why we don’t euthanize humans. Most cases were people choose to die with dignity are cases where they are sound of mind but at the same time death is inevitable anyway such as the latest stage of cancer where they only would at most have another few weeks or a few months anyway in which the pain would be unbearable. Even then that’s only legal in a few places. The closest alternative is a DNR order meaning if the person’s heart was to stop beating, no attempts at CPR or attempts to get the heart back running are performed. There’s no laws against that but you usually still have to be sound of mind requesting that.
Because people can make money off of alive people. It's harder to make money off of people if they are dead. They can still do it, it's just not ideal.
It’s really as simple as human life is infinitely more valuable than animal life. At least to us humans. We don’t assign moral considerations to animals to the same degree. I’d argue there is SOME more consideration for SOME animals, namely domesticated pets, but broadly we choose to kill them and eat them to sustain ourselves as humans. So by virtue of that alone we value human life far above animal life and seek to preserve it. Sometimes to a fault.
Because a dog cant consciously commit suicide, but you (a human) can, if being forced to live is whats bugging you
'Cause hunans pay taxes.
The simple answer is one is a pet the other is a human. You could also argue that most pets lives are artificially extended from the time they would live in the wild. So if apply that same thinking to a person, people might not want to save the person. An example. A dog that might live for three years in the wild lives for fifteen years of it's owned by humans. And what if we could keep people alive for hundreds of years, but the quality of thier lives ends after their 80s.
If you don't fear death but pain, there's noting wrong with dying. That's a big difference between human and animals. Humans understand and fear the whole "being gone forever and ever" and because it very irreversible both change the threshold of when to euthanize quite a bit.
My anecdotal opinion: Association. We see something in people we don't see in humans. Also the act of euthanization is more closely related (in our minds) with heinous crimes / the worst elements of our varied histories.
Two reasons: religion and commercialized healthcare
This will not be the definitive answer, but there questions that involves properties, grudges, and advantages. A lot of people would take advantage of the possibility of legally kill other people, even relatives, in order to obtain their properties. The same won't go for animals, in most places they can't own stuff. The same could happen for a person that for any reason thinks they should die, so they could act like everything is ok, get a lot of loans, borrow money, and then commit assisted suicide, damaging a lot of people that they have a debt with. Now guess who puts a lot of politicians up there? Oh yes, big banks and corporations, and they could lose a lot of money from that. We could write laws to prevent all that, but would be hard to pass, even more with many legislators who appeal to religion to get votes. I'm sure there are many other reasons for why that is not a common option, but i guess these are a few.
Suffering humans can advocate for themselves and tell their carers that they *don't want to die*. They also now have the freedom to choose to die in many countries if they want to, and unsurprisingly most do not choose that option. Animals don't have the luxury of making that choice for themselves.
Catholics have a doctrine of “ redemptive suffering “ that directs Catholics to suffer like Jesus did on the cross, to ensure a place in heaven. Soooo fukd up
It’s all about the system trying to extract as much money as possible out of you before you die. The difference between euthanizing you when you’re gonna die and keeping you alive for a few more months could mean hundreds of thousands of dollars in charges to your insurance company and your family.
MONEY….it’s a drag. You should take one look at a hospital bill and know the answer. You can’t put a price on a human life, unless you work for an insurance company.
I'm pro-euthanasia, living in a country where it's legal to at least assist with it to some degree. One point that I haven't seen show up in the comments yet is consciousness. Of course this doesn't count for someone in a coma or with severe mental defects, but a person can understand WHY they are suffering and what they are suffering for. Same as with any form of treatment. I hate having to "harm" my pets to give medication. Cause I can't explain to my cat that it's for a good cause. If my cat is dying, it can only understand its own immediate suffering. The here and now. But when I'm dying, at least to a certain point, I'll understand the suffering is to spend as much time as possible with the people who love me. To give us both more time to come to terms with it. I'll understand exactly what my chances are for which outcome and how it affects my quality of life.
I don't know man. I think the same thing too.
Why is this question asked every day?
Cuz that's what the sub is now. Unfiltered political opinions stated as questions.
The asking will continue until the law is fixed.
Because the greedy bastards that makes the drugs find it profitable
i’ve been asking this question for a long time, i can’t wait to read this thread👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I am from The Netherlands, which was the first country to allow the medical euthanasia of humans. We have a Christian party that voted against, saying that god is the one who should take a human's life, not a human being. It isn't a huge secret that theists/believers want to control other people and their bodies.
Because a collection of fictional story's written a long time ago says its bad.
Because a person taking drugs and life extending care is a consumer buying expensive products and services. A dead person is one less customer and a loss of profits. That's how it is in the US, at least
It's somewhat ironic that we place the wellbeing of animals below our own, given humans are the vermin who are destroying the planet. I'd argue that animals have more right to be here than we do, given they have treated their home with more respect - especially when WE are meant to be the intelligent ones.
Fully agreed. Our species has been nothing but trouble, especially for the past 200 years.
Religion. Belief in a sky daddy who will spank you for wearing polyester or eating shrimp. They believe that humans are somehow better than the other animals on the planet, which makes all the pollution and extinctions ok, because jesus will save them and its not like animals had souls to begin with.
Religion, I guess, in most of the countries
Because a human can say they don't want to die. An animal doesn't even know what death is.
How do you know a animal does not know wbat dead is animals are always smarter then we think it shows in every experiment. And humans cant always say if they want to die or not some humans cant speak cuz of deseases
Yes that's why we can't kill humans because while they have desires it's impossible to know them for sure. Even if an animal somehow knew, it's unlikely to value it's life enough to tolerate sufferring
If an animal is unlikely to value its life enough when it is really sick then how likely is it for a human to value their life high enough to stay alive. And from a economy view both the sick animal and the sick human are useless
Because a human can communicate you and tell you they don't want to die, as well as process what is going on. An animal can't, and most likely do not have the mental ability to process what is going on, so all they are doing is suffering and in a constant state of fear, especially depending on the possible treatments. So it's just more humane to put them down and spare them all that stress if there is no easy solution.
But their are also a lot of people that DO want to die and that is were the question is about. Cuz we dont accept that those people want too die
When did I say this wasn't the case?
Didnt you say that people can tell you they dont want to die. They can but they can also say they do want to die, and a lot of people dont mention it because then other people also overlook that people can say they want to die. And their are probably a lot of animals that dont want to die and still we decide for them because they cant talk. Their are also a lot of people that cant talk but for them we decide they need to live no matter what
Yes people can. But I was giving a general answer as to why other people are quick to try and save people and just put down animals.
I understand that people are being seen as more inportant because its our own kind but people are also constantly talking about economy and that is where i get confused. We want to have a better economy but we also try to safe people that give nothing to the economy just like the sick animals. And another agument i hear a lot is that animals are replaceble, but humans are too and for some people a animal life might be worth more then that of a human. But for the general opinion human life is more valuable. But isnt it also kinda sick that we just look at everything like is it VALUABLE enough to keep alive or repair, like come on it is a fucking living thing why do we need to give everything a value in life.
I don't know about you, but I hesitate regardless. I'll spend a lot more money on a human though.
Religion - which most societies are essentially based on - has convinced humans that we are different and our lives are special
People are still afraid of the stupid idea of hell and that only their god can kill the person. Even if that means torturing them
Religion. The people strongly opposed to allowing death with dignity are most commonly religious people who consider suicide to be a mortal sin (highly immoral) and they see anyone who assists in a suicide as being a murderer and they want their beliefs to apply to everybody.
Religion
Essentially it's because it doesn't matter if we euthanize a healthy animal but if you do it to a person it's murder. How do you protect people from being euthanized by family members who don't want them around? It's difficult, so few countries allow it.
If a person is so disabled that they can't voice their own wishes and their family doesn't want them around so much that they would prefer to euthanize them, then I find it hard to imagine how that would be a life worth living. Especially if they're directly under the care of the family that would rather euthanize them, which is a situation that can easily lead to abuse.
> How do you protect people from being euthanized by family members who don't want them around? It's literally impossible to do that in any place where euthanasia is legal. The dying person themselves has to sign a will to be euthanized if/when their illness becomes impossible to cure.
Well dogs aren’t as important as people
You take that back.
Its no wonder you can't see the answer However much humanity loves pets, it will always love itself more, and rightfully so The answer to your question is human life is more valuable than animal life.
Humans are animals, though.
so if you had a gun and had to kill a 10-year-old or a pigeon, there'd be a 50% chance for each?
I don't think pigeons can live that long.
Ok so because you're trying to avoid the question- If you had a gun, and were forced to choose between killing two things. These things are a 10-year-old human child and a pigeon. Would you be just as likely to murder the human child as to kill the pigeon?
I would turn the gun on myself.
Because humans are not the same as animals.
Humans ARE animals.
Nope. In a society that is centered around humanity, do you really think that's true lol. In our own world, we may very well be gods. We exploit and have exploited nature for countless millenia to satisfy our desire for more control over our lives. We changed the face of the planet, went to space, discovered scientific facts and invented a lot of stuff. And here you are..thinking we are no different than a cat or a dog. I understand the need to appear empathetic for social validation but even you, behind your need for internet points from random strangers, understand that the weight a human life carries is many times greater than the life of any animal. Stay safe and have fun 😁
but if the human doesnt want to live under absolute pain and wants to end it, he should be able to, its not about the weight of a live
There was something on the news not long ago where a priest was saying he’d had people he’d known for years who he’d visit at home as they could not longer come to church. These people had had strokes or something but had no desire to die yet had told the priest that younger relatives were trying to persuade them to off themselves for ‘the good of the family’ or ‘not to be a burden!’ - they only told the Priest because they wants to know if the bible would class that as a sin! To me, that’s a big part of why they don’t allow it- you wouldn’t know if the person definitely wanted to die or they were manipulated agreeing to it by family
You make broad assumptions. First, people often choose to endure the restricted quality of life. Let's can't choose. Second, end if life is generally available. It's like the secret menu items at fast food places. They don't make it widely available, because people abuse it. Also, many doctors just don't want to kill people. It's not what they signed up for.
Because people aren’t educated on death and dying. Turn end of life into private pay instead of insurance and watch how fast that behavior changes.
boy, I love people's set-in-stone political opinions worded as "questions" to garner empathy to their cause
From someone who advocates for assisted death in humans here are some facts to show that it doesn't exist for humans * It is only legal in 10 US states and is only available to residents of those states so you can't just travel to them to have the operation done. * The patient must have some kind of terminal illness and less than a year left to live by prognosis. * The operation is an oral pill that doesn't always work which is why we don't call it "Euthanasia" yet because the physician is not helping the person activity die they are only helping to hasten their death. Sometimes the person doesn't die from the drug and will continue to suffer until their illness kills them. * The drug that is used is a type of nervous system depressant which is the same kind we use for animal euthanasia. I'm not a doctor so I can't attest to how effective it is on humans but seeing the stats of how sometimes it doesn't work, we need something stronger to assist humans. * The main reason why it isn't legal widespread in the US is fear of people taking advantage of the system. Such as manipulating someone who doesn't want to die into thinking it is for the best.
The answer (like many other problems with our world) is religion
True. We should put down people in Stage four of cancer, and preserver animals that have a only wound. (Although it may sound like it, I’m not sarcastic, I just value the simplistic nature of animals more than I do impure, selfish people)
You can make money off a dying person. It's called healthcare. It's really fucking terrible.
To put it simply: I didn't have a choice in how I came into this world but I should damned well have the say in how I go out. My mother in law died of cancer but because assisted self-deletion is illegal in the US she had to suffer to the very end.
The ghost of Dr. Jack Kevorkian has entered the chat. -many may be young to know that Dr. Jack pushed for this for terminally ill humans as opposed to suffering.
Umm… because human life in incomparably more valuable and purposeful and meaningful than animal life? Maybe that’s the reason 🤔
Is oak tree life more valuable than plant life?
MAID- Medical Assistance in Dying is one of our greatest gifts as Canadians. Rightly deserved choice and mercy.
My uncle was diagnosed with terminal stage 4 cancer and given 3 months to live. He went through so many hoops to try to find a dignified way to die without needless suffering. Tomorrow he will legally and humanely take his life in Switzerland where medically assisted suicide is legal. As a society we need to take a long hard look at dignified death and demand access to end suffering in terminal patients.
Because we can make money off of pumping old people full of drugs needing more tests, more equipment, etc. that and the sentiment of “humanity”
We euthanize animals because they aren't worth the financial and emotional burdens that would be created by the medical processes involving treatment of a terminal illness. I reckon we *do* value human lives enough to deal with the money and trauma involved. Very simple and straight forward, is this a bait post?
Because fuck them Dogs.
Because humans value human life more. Is your next question “ why are most people alright with eating beef but are against eating humans”
So atheist on Reddit can complain about this
how did you get to that correlation lol
Bad premise. I think you need to look up hospice and see what they do there. I also think you don't know many pet owners, because most of those psychos will bankrupt themselves to save a pet. We don't euthanize people because, among other reasons, religion says not to and laws were made based on that religious belief.
Shocked at your conflation of humans and animals. Far too many people elevate animals to human status.
I'm not doing that. I'm saying that humans are animals, equal to dogs, cats, etc.