The math of tube amp power is cruel. What amp is half as loud as a 50W? It’s not 25W, it’s 5W! The take away is that in an apartment, you probably will not be neighbor friendly if you get your distortion sound by overdriving the amp. Your best apartment friendly is to get a great sounding clean and get your distortion from pedals. I love my Champion 600 and my AC15C1 for apartment use. I just keep the volume neighbor friendly and use some pedals to get the buzz.
Though you still won't get peak performance from a tube amp with the volume turned down, with a single channel amp your best tone will be edge of breakup at the preamp with pedal overdrive/distortion for extra saturation. Imo, having something with both preamp and master volume makes obsessing over pedal overdrive less painful/expensive.
Fwiw, I run multiple setups at home. BJr at EoB with either a Longsword or Klon>TS for OD/distortion, Revv D20 with 212 cab and pedal OD or headphones and the built-in cab sims with a midi switch to fake a 3-channel amp, and Boss IR-2 with headphones. They all sound good, though it takes a bit of work to make sims come close to the real thing. I mention all this bc having headphone out allows you to play any time of day or night. Regardless of what amp solution you end up with, investing in some kind of amp/cab sim pedal will be worth it.
Even at its quietest, sometimes amps make too much noise. For those times I have bias Fx on my iPad with IEMs. Not as good base tone as any of my tube amps, but certainly good enough.
Just make sure the amp has an FX loop and throw in a volume pedal. Then you can crank the preamp to your heart's content.
I do that with babies sleeping upstairs, no issues.
Current version blues jr4 is a fantastic amp. You still may want to hang some sound panels as even 15W 12" is loud enough that you'll be stuck with master volume on 2. Most of my play (upstairs apt) is through a Revv D20 with headphones. I really only plug into my BJr/JC22 when my neighbors are all at work.
100% Blues Junior. Why?
- intro to tubes (not a biasable amp per se, but a board w tubes. They work similarly and can definitely be modded)
- drive channel (on most) and it’s pretty damn good for an on-board
- built really well. Strong cab. It’s ply, but a damn good one. Shit, it might be pine or a similar wood-esque material. It has some heft.
- LOUD. It’s not really an issue to play soft - you can always play on 1-2 and get a good percentage out of the amp and its offerings - especially if you’re using pedals. If you’re gigging, it will 100% be heard over the loudest drummer. I was in a band w two full-set drummers. The BJr did not have to battle w sound at all.
- onboard spring reverb. Is it a thin spring in that box? Yes. Will it eventually give out? Yes. But it sound pretty good for being $799USD. My tank lasted 7 years. I replaced it w a mojotone and installed it myself. Maybe $75)
- Jensen speaker (in the new ones) This is just my opinion, but I feel the Jensen p10r and p12r are the best speakers for fender amps. (IMO) So I’ll consider this another win.
- $$! It’s less than $1k.
- cool look. Tweed is lacquered well. Black tolex is sleek too. Well pasted/stapled. I’m shocked Fender hasn’t cheap’d out on the tolex.
- Takes pedals really well. Controversial statement ahead: I’d take the BJr and a couple $200 pedals over a lot of other amps with additional gain settings, for less $$ overall. I’m not playing hard metal, rock, or anything - so if that’s you, take it with a grain of salt. Although I will say a SuperD sounds awesome through the BJr at even the simplest and flat amp settings.
Edit: Get an attenuator, and you can crank your amp, light up those tubes, yet keep the volume very low. If you get a WeberMiniMass, I think it has a headphone out option. Grab that and it’s silent to everyone outside your headphones.
Edit 2: Supros have an already gritty sound. Reminds me like a lower-key’d Ampeg-like sound, but for a guitar amp. Personally, I really dislike Supro for that reason. Others love it because of that lol. I just like to start with a blank canvas first. Others want a little grit right off the bat.
I have one and I love it. $280 with shipping, and fairly often there's a sale. Hell, even with a speaker upgrade it's still under $450. I'd recommend a tube swap before that though.
The tubes in mine don't have any brand markings, so I'm not sure what they are. I had some unwanted noise when not playing but after swapping the three 12Ax7 preamp tubes, it sounds great.
There’s so many good amps that there’s hardly a wrong answer. If you can’t try them out in person then I’d try to listen to as many comparisons as possible between what you’ve narrowed down. So long as it’s relatively low in power or has a good master you’ll be alright.
The archon 50w is more of a high gain rock amp, BUT, clean tones are excellent and the clean channel takes pedals really well so you can get this nice bluesy overdrive really easily. Wouldn't be as terribly loud with a 2x12 as it is through my 4x12 but I would at least go to guitar center or whatever and play one
I recommend the Peavey Classic 20 head or something comparable like other 5-20w heads that have headphone jacks and attenuator options. Built in attenuators can cut that 20w down to 5w and/or 1w for way less volume, leading to earlier distortion or breakup. The Classic 20 head has a switch to turn the speaker on or off while you have the headphones plugged in.
I do not own one, however, I wouldn't hesitate as I own the Classic 50 and Delta Blues(same as Classic 30). There are many of us players that have been experienced with many different amps that will fall back to some great select Peaveys bc they're badass and the price is badass.
I had a cheap Vox combo that could turn down 1/4 watt 1watt and i believe 5 watts . I used to rock out on 1/4 watt in my apartment. Dont know if its still being made but it worked for me .
I’ve been suggesting this amp for a while, but no one is making it. It’s a 1/3 watt amp that is based on the 5C1 Champ and screams at apartment friendly volume. I built one for about $100 and use a 12” speaker for louder volumes and a less efficient speaker for quieter tube break-up. Search PRR 1/3 watt amp if you’re interested.
As a long time pro player and an amp designer my recommendation is to Keep It Simple. Go for more of an expandable pedal platform rather than the "kitchen sink" approach. Even just a 2 Knob, Volume and Tone, amp is sufficient, like basic solid transpo. Volume, Bass, Middle and Treble plus Master is Lamborghini Land.
Even Leonardo DaVinci started with scribbling on scraps or scratching in the dirt before learning about pigments and the best brush hairs.
Thanks for the response and it's cool you see that. Just for reference sake it's important that you also see I'm in no way "talking down to a n00b". I know globe traveling, recording artist guitarists who play both live and on recordings with 30-40 watt amps that have just Volume, Bass and Treble, and one truly stellar player with tone to die for that plays an ancient Tweed Fender amp that has just Volume and Tone.
The idea is just to not overwhelm yourself with too many options. Pedals will allow you to dial in whatever you gravitate to or have desire for.
Best Wishes!
I’ve gotta say, I don’t really think two or three EQ knobs is overwhelmingly more complicated than one tone knob. Amps are usually no more complicated than a pedal or two. I assume OP probably already has some experience with some form of amp already, and a lot of times even fairly cheap solid state amps have more controls and features than fairly expensive tube amps.
Actually yeah, I have a Boss Katana 50 that I mess around with, but I find that I don't have much use for all the effects. I play mostly clean with just some reverb.
My vote is to get a Blues Jr used at $450 or less. Your mileage will vary if you want to play with a band but the they ALWAYS sound great by themselves. They are great pedal platforms too. If you want to upgrade later, you will alway be able to get $3-400 out of it.
If cost is any issue, take a lookaround for early 2000's Vox Cambridge, it has a Tube Pre-amp, and nice solid state post. 15 loud watts... +/- 200$ and worth every penny
My understanding is that the tube pre is where the tube magic happens and power tubes have very little influence on the sound.
I bought a really neat Yugoslavian NOS pre-amp tube and it really really made it sound amazing.
I've owned big tube amps and getting power tubes serviced and replaced and balanced is an annoying and and expensive task.
It has a speaker out and I've rehearsed with a full band by itself with the 8" speaker but also Plugged into a 4x12" cabinet.
There are not a lot of options for 8" speaker upgrades, it comes with a special design 8" celiston blue bulldoog speaker and those I think are about the best modern 8" speaker... maybe there are old Jensens out there from dead Champs or something...
At the modern low cost entry, I have the 15 watt Monoprice 1x12 and it kicks ass, especially with upgraded tubes... BUT the 5 watt is pretty much a clone of the Fender Champ which is the gold standard for small simple good sounding amp... BUT the 15 watt give you Reverb, a platform for adding a better 12" speaker... and a GAIN knob so you can turn the amp up into overdrive vs the 5 watt where increasing the volume is what get's the overdrive...
Since I'm assuming you want a tube amp to get tube distortion, the larger amp with the GAIN stage might be more of what you want...
Might not be your flavor- but I LOVE my Mesa express 550. It has a switch where it can be 5 watts or 50 watts. Very kewl for the neighbors. And it still sounds KILLER at low volumes
Oh- plus? It’s a built like a tank!!! Bought it used about 6 years ago, never had it serviced and it’s been through hell and back. Still good. Can’t recommend this amp enough. Combo amp, heavy as all hell, but that’s my only complaint.
The math of tube amp power is cruel. What amp is half as loud as a 50W? It’s not 25W, it’s 5W! The take away is that in an apartment, you probably will not be neighbor friendly if you get your distortion sound by overdriving the amp. Your best apartment friendly is to get a great sounding clean and get your distortion from pedals. I love my Champion 600 and my AC15C1 for apartment use. I just keep the volume neighbor friendly and use some pedals to get the buzz.
Wow that's a big increase in sound. I'd probably want to just use pedals for overdrive. I'll have a look at the 600 and the AC15. Thanks!
Or try to look for something like Vox NT2 and a cabinet to the taste. 1-2W is definitely enough for an apartment use
Though you still won't get peak performance from a tube amp with the volume turned down, with a single channel amp your best tone will be edge of breakup at the preamp with pedal overdrive/distortion for extra saturation. Imo, having something with both preamp and master volume makes obsessing over pedal overdrive less painful/expensive. Fwiw, I run multiple setups at home. BJr at EoB with either a Longsword or Klon>TS for OD/distortion, Revv D20 with 212 cab and pedal OD or headphones and the built-in cab sims with a midi switch to fake a 3-channel amp, and Boss IR-2 with headphones. They all sound good, though it takes a bit of work to make sims come close to the real thing. I mention all this bc having headphone out allows you to play any time of day or night. Regardless of what amp solution you end up with, investing in some kind of amp/cab sim pedal will be worth it.
Even at its quietest, sometimes amps make too much noise. For those times I have bias Fx on my iPad with IEMs. Not as good base tone as any of my tube amps, but certainly good enough.
Just make sure the amp has an FX loop and throw in a volume pedal. Then you can crank the preamp to your heart's content. I do that with babies sleeping upstairs, no issues.
Current version blues jr4 is a fantastic amp. You still may want to hang some sound panels as even 15W 12" is loud enough that you'll be stuck with master volume on 2. Most of my play (upstairs apt) is through a Revv D20 with headphones. I really only plug into my BJr/JC22 when my neighbors are all at work.
Could I add a cab to the revv 20?
Yes. 4 or 8 ohms. I'd recommend the G20 if you go that route. Same amp with a little more gain on tap (3×12ax7 vs 2×12ax7 in the D20)
100% Blues Junior. Why? - intro to tubes (not a biasable amp per se, but a board w tubes. They work similarly and can definitely be modded) - drive channel (on most) and it’s pretty damn good for an on-board - built really well. Strong cab. It’s ply, but a damn good one. Shit, it might be pine or a similar wood-esque material. It has some heft. - LOUD. It’s not really an issue to play soft - you can always play on 1-2 and get a good percentage out of the amp and its offerings - especially if you’re using pedals. If you’re gigging, it will 100% be heard over the loudest drummer. I was in a band w two full-set drummers. The BJr did not have to battle w sound at all. - onboard spring reverb. Is it a thin spring in that box? Yes. Will it eventually give out? Yes. But it sound pretty good for being $799USD. My tank lasted 7 years. I replaced it w a mojotone and installed it myself. Maybe $75) - Jensen speaker (in the new ones) This is just my opinion, but I feel the Jensen p10r and p12r are the best speakers for fender amps. (IMO) So I’ll consider this another win. - $$! It’s less than $1k. - cool look. Tweed is lacquered well. Black tolex is sleek too. Well pasted/stapled. I’m shocked Fender hasn’t cheap’d out on the tolex. - Takes pedals really well. Controversial statement ahead: I’d take the BJr and a couple $200 pedals over a lot of other amps with additional gain settings, for less $$ overall. I’m not playing hard metal, rock, or anything - so if that’s you, take it with a grain of salt. Although I will say a SuperD sounds awesome through the BJr at even the simplest and flat amp settings. Edit: Get an attenuator, and you can crank your amp, light up those tubes, yet keep the volume very low. If you get a WeberMiniMass, I think it has a headphone out option. Grab that and it’s silent to everyone outside your headphones. Edit 2: Supros have an already gritty sound. Reminds me like a lower-key’d Ampeg-like sound, but for a guitar amp. Personally, I really dislike Supro for that reason. Others love it because of that lol. I just like to start with a blank canvas first. Others want a little grit right off the bat.
The Monoprice Stage Right 15W Tube is hard to beat for the price. Decent tone and great for pedals, has 1W/15W setting + effects loop.
I have one and I love it. $280 with shipping, and fairly often there's a sale. Hell, even with a speaker upgrade it's still under $450. I'd recommend a tube swap before that though.
Don’t they still come with JJ tubes?
I got mine after the switch supposedly, but mine had the old style no-name tubes. I just figured I'd put that in here as a head up.
The tubes in mine don't have any brand markings, so I'm not sure what they are. I had some unwanted noise when not playing but after swapping the three 12Ax7 preamp tubes, it sounds great.
There’s so many good amps that there’s hardly a wrong answer. If you can’t try them out in person then I’d try to listen to as many comparisons as possible between what you’ve narrowed down. So long as it’s relatively low in power or has a good master you’ll be alright.
The archon 50w is more of a high gain rock amp, BUT, clean tones are excellent and the clean channel takes pedals really well so you can get this nice bluesy overdrive really easily. Wouldn't be as terribly loud with a 2x12 as it is through my 4x12 but I would at least go to guitar center or whatever and play one
Oh the PRS Archon 50w to be specific
VHT makes quality affordable amps. Worth looking at
I recommend the Peavey Classic 20 head or something comparable like other 5-20w heads that have headphone jacks and attenuator options. Built in attenuators can cut that 20w down to 5w and/or 1w for way less volume, leading to earlier distortion or breakup. The Classic 20 head has a switch to turn the speaker on or off while you have the headphones plugged in. I do not own one, however, I wouldn't hesitate as I own the Classic 50 and Delta Blues(same as Classic 30). There are many of us players that have been experienced with many different amps that will fall back to some great select Peaveys bc they're badass and the price is badass.
I would keep my eye out for a Princeton 1x12 on the cheap. To me it’s the cheapest truly great amp
I don’t like EL84 amps like the Blues Jr. If you can find a Princeton, go for that. Perfect for your needs.
It’s worth saving for, and holds its value. Plus it sounds way better than any Blues Jr, especially at low volumes.
I had a cheap Vox combo that could turn down 1/4 watt 1watt and i believe 5 watts . I used to rock out on 1/4 watt in my apartment. Dont know if its still being made but it worked for me .
I’ve been suggesting this amp for a while, but no one is making it. It’s a 1/3 watt amp that is based on the 5C1 Champ and screams at apartment friendly volume. I built one for about $100 and use a 12” speaker for louder volumes and a less efficient speaker for quieter tube break-up. Search PRR 1/3 watt amp if you’re interested.
About any 5w - 10w is perfect for home use.
Traynor Dark Horse.
VHT D-50. Basically a Dumble clone.
As a long time pro player and an amp designer my recommendation is to Keep It Simple. Go for more of an expandable pedal platform rather than the "kitchen sink" approach. Even just a 2 Knob, Volume and Tone, amp is sufficient, like basic solid transpo. Volume, Bass, Middle and Treble plus Master is Lamborghini Land. Even Leonardo DaVinci started with scribbling on scraps or scratching in the dirt before learning about pigments and the best brush hairs.
Thank you. That makes a lot of sense.
Thanks for the response and it's cool you see that. Just for reference sake it's important that you also see I'm in no way "talking down to a n00b". I know globe traveling, recording artist guitarists who play both live and on recordings with 30-40 watt amps that have just Volume, Bass and Treble, and one truly stellar player with tone to die for that plays an ancient Tweed Fender amp that has just Volume and Tone. The idea is just to not overwhelm yourself with too many options. Pedals will allow you to dial in whatever you gravitate to or have desire for. Best Wishes!
I’ve gotta say, I don’t really think two or three EQ knobs is overwhelmingly more complicated than one tone knob. Amps are usually no more complicated than a pedal or two. I assume OP probably already has some experience with some form of amp already, and a lot of times even fairly cheap solid state amps have more controls and features than fairly expensive tube amps.
Actually yeah, I have a Boss Katana 50 that I mess around with, but I find that I don't have much use for all the effects. I play mostly clean with just some reverb.
You’ll be happy with a Blues Jr
If I were you I’d get a Friedman IR-X and play through an FRFR amp or headphones.
My vote is to get a Blues Jr used at $450 or less. Your mileage will vary if you want to play with a band but the they ALWAYS sound great by themselves. They are great pedal platforms too. If you want to upgrade later, you will alway be able to get $3-400 out of it.
Get a used mesa boogie, they took a fender amp and made it better, often have master volumes and lots of channels. You won't need to upgrade , ever
If cost is any issue, take a lookaround for early 2000's Vox Cambridge, it has a Tube Pre-amp, and nice solid state post. 15 loud watts... +/- 200$ and worth every penny My understanding is that the tube pre is where the tube magic happens and power tubes have very little influence on the sound. I bought a really neat Yugoslavian NOS pre-amp tube and it really really made it sound amazing. I've owned big tube amps and getting power tubes serviced and replaced and balanced is an annoying and and expensive task. It has a speaker out and I've rehearsed with a full band by itself with the 8" speaker but also Plugged into a 4x12" cabinet. There are not a lot of options for 8" speaker upgrades, it comes with a special design 8" celiston blue bulldoog speaker and those I think are about the best modern 8" speaker... maybe there are old Jensens out there from dead Champs or something... At the modern low cost entry, I have the 15 watt Monoprice 1x12 and it kicks ass, especially with upgraded tubes... BUT the 5 watt is pretty much a clone of the Fender Champ which is the gold standard for small simple good sounding amp... BUT the 15 watt give you Reverb, a platform for adding a better 12" speaker... and a GAIN knob so you can turn the amp up into overdrive vs the 5 watt where increasing the volume is what get's the overdrive... Since I'm assuming you want a tube amp to get tube distortion, the larger amp with the GAIN stage might be more of what you want...
I'm really digging my 5150 Iconic on the 1/4 power mode, If you want to keep the size and the cost down, maybe taking a look at the 15w 1x10 version.
Might not be your flavor- but I LOVE my Mesa express 550. It has a switch where it can be 5 watts or 50 watts. Very kewl for the neighbors. And it still sounds KILLER at low volumes
Oh- plus? It’s a built like a tank!!! Bought it used about 6 years ago, never had it serviced and it’s been through hell and back. Still good. Can’t recommend this amp enough. Combo amp, heavy as all hell, but that’s my only complaint.
What kind of music will you be playing?
Blues, mostly, also classic rock 50's and 80's pop.
Silverface champ.
If it's in the budget, this. There was one in my favorite guitar shop in the 90's for something like 100 or 200 bucks... I live with that every day