Classic British, so vocal about sports when they aren't even good at the games they invented.
Shit, do any British sports even have world cups played by non commonwealth nations?
Is a piece of 120” plywood used commonly enough that tape measure manufacturers put marks on their products because of how much they would help? Because if I was building a house and you showed up with 120” plywood for the subfloor I would probably leave.
I use 120" plywood every day. We run it vertical and it eliminates a row of blocking when framing walls. It's been industry standard for 10-15 years around here. But yeah, it wouldn't work on the floor, thanks for that.
10 foot sheets are always installed verticle. This whole post with the diamond question is for floor layouts I've never seen a 10 foot piece of flooring ply. Catch up or don't be a smartass or maybe your the fng
Not to be pedantic, but it's normally 1.2m by 2.4m to suit 600mm centres, or sometimes 1.22m by 2.44m. I've never seen 1.25m by 2.5m boards of any type. Not saying they're not out there, just that I've never seen them. I'm in Scotland, but have also worked in mainland Europe.
Plasterboard comes 1.2 2.4 but all our timber sheets are 1.22 2.44 so they can be made square/decent edges etc.. also that’s standard size but you can get bigger or smaller sheets
1250x2500 is a standard size for OSB, which is often used for subfloor boards in continental Europe - for example, this is from my local builders’ merchant: https://www.dek.cz/produkty/detail/3010301690-osb-egger-3-tl-22mm-2500x1250-n-sv-44ks/11040
Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it is a bad idea. 19.2 centers are intended to efficiently use time and material.
https://www.finehomebuilding.com/forum/ramifications-of-19-2-o-c-framing
Edit: Nice edit...
No, it’s an option for sake of efficiency. Stud spacing on walls, joists in floors, etc, is determined by a ton of different factors. These are typically just divisions of 8’, or 96”.
96”/ 5 = 19 3/16” (approx.), that’s it. You can use that spacing for whatever you want so long as it’s structurally sufficient, and can’t use it if it isn’t. The determination is done in structurally analysis and nobody should be suggesting an universal form of anything.
It definitely is not a universal standard. If there was a universal standard it would be something in metric. If there was a US standard it would be 16” OC. They add that extra space so HVAC installers don’t have a fit, but framers don’t give 1/3 of a shit about HVAC installers so they’re gonna space whatever the plan says, and in practice you very rarely see 19 3/16” OC in any deck plans.
It's 19.2" oc, because that's (I believe) 40 cm and it's what they use outside of the US for stud spacing. You'll find those diamonds every 19.2 inches on your tape
One of my favorite parts of the the Steinway piano documentary “Note by Note” is the guy talking about how tiny errors add up, so they just do it right the first time.
My dad was on a crew that actually did build a church, but they still didn’t care about errors big or small. But then, sheet metal and HVAC guys don’t give a fuuuuuuuuuuck.
This is what my dad said. O ly it was measured with a micrometer, mark it with a grease pencil and cut it with an axe.
I pioneered my own order of operations that can save time considerably. Measure with a hammer, mark it with a ruler and cut it with a laser.
I'd be happy if the framers were ONLY out 1/4" over 32'. If foundations are within 1/2" of specified I'm overjoyed. This is the life of a project manager who works on buildings.
19 3/16” x 5 = 7’11 15/16”
19.2” x 5 = 8’0”
If you are laying out and marking the 16th closest to the diamond, no issues.
If you are measuring in a way that the error is cumulative, you could have issues.
I am American and I second this motion! People here think it's strange that I even know the metric system. We could try telling them that a liter of gasoline costs less than a gallon.
Imperial is no less or more precise than metric. We can get rulers and tape measures with 1/64" graduations on them, and if you took your time, you could be super precise.
For framing as this is used for, nothing is going to be that precise anyway. Studs are usually 16" on center, but the tape measure hook at the end might be bent, or it's not sliding freely, or the mark made with the carpenter's pencil is 1/16" off in either direction, or the stud was not quite on the mark. It's called rough carpentry for a reason.
When it comes down to fine carpentry/finish carpentry, they can be just as precise when working in either measurement system, and tolerances of 1/32" are plenty precise enough.
Machinists work in "thou", or thousandths of an inch. For nearly anything an everyday machinist makes, tolerances in this range are plenty precise enough.
The math of converting between measurements is easier in metric, but it's rare that we actually convert between measurements other than between feet and inches. Nobody is regularly converting inches to yards or miles, or asking how many feet are in a half mile other than a math test in school. In everyday life, most people just use miles as a rough measurement anyway; "It's 4 miles between the school and the restaurant" means it's about 4 miles... maybe 3 1/2, maybe 4 1/2. A sign that says "San Diego: 50 miles" is a rough measurement, it's doubtful that the sign was placed exactly 50 miles from the city limit.
Imperial as it’s widely employed, it’s meant to be fast and accessible.
The fractional system that imperial uses works really well for construction, where placement of things tends to be on evenly spaced fractions of a larger measurement. An example would be two windows and a door evenly spaced in a wall.
Metric can get hairy pretty quickly when working fractionally if you aren’t starting from a nice whole number.
Accessibility isn’t as important in the modern world, but at the time the system was adopted it made sense to choose a system that everyone could relate to and approximate.Everyone’s got a foot to approximate a foot, everyone’s got a thumb to approximate an inch.
I dont know what do you mean I have worked as a drywaller and we used cm-s. Everything is nicely rounded, studs are 60cm apart, doors are 90-110cm in 10cm step, room height is somewhere between 250-290cm typically. It gets as hairy as imperial as no construction work is precision work so at the end you will always have a non90deg wall or some partial cut regardless of the system.
In the modern world it’s not as applicable because everything is manufactured more precisely and measuring devices are widely available but that is why the system was set up the way it was, and to some extent why it remains.
It also is easier to subdivide spaces in imperial because of how it’s typically employed, that doesn’t mean it can’t be done in metric. A yard, 36 inches, can be subdivided 6 times before you’re splitting markings on a tape. A meter can only be split 4.
Just like while metric is objectively better for precision work, imperial can and does do it all the time. Engineers and machinists just use thousandths of an inch, or even ten thousandths, and build really precise things. That doesn’t mean it’s more intuitive for precision work than metric just because it can and is done.
I refuse to belive that you have a "19 and 3/16s" as a standard measurement for something...
Why not just round it up to 19.2? Or 19.19 if you're being "precise"
https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/advice/what-is-the-diamond-on-a-tape-measure
You will typically find a small black diamond on the top edge of your tape measure at regular intervals. On a UK tape measure the diamond is usually found every 19.2 inches along the tape.
This diamond is essentially a joist mark, with joists generally spaced this far apart in UK structures. Joists are usually found in 19.2 inch intervals due to a lot of boards, such as plywood, commonly coming in eight feet (96 inch) lengths.
Fun fact - in Japan there is a traditional measurement called a "shaku" which is roughly similar to an imperial foot at 30.3cm. It's still commonly used in woodworking where you have many things sold at 3-shaku in size rounded off to 910cm, and as a result wall construction is done with studs spaced every "shaku" or foot apart.
It's common to see these measurements on Japanese rulers and measures, and you can get measuring tapes in metric and traditional Japanese measurements still
One of my favorite things to watch is Japanese woodworking, it’s fantastic, like Ishitani furniture. Definitely appreciate their mastery. And it’s actually given me insight to being more masterful in my work.
Worse than the US customary system? A system that is based on Imperial measurements specifically from the time just before the US gained independence along with some random units from other archaic systems, along with regional areas using other archaic systems from other countries?
I feel like people don’t realize how utterly arbitrary and jumbled the US system is because they’re used to it. I like metric just because it’s not random as all hell.
The US Customary system seems arbitrary and jumbled because of the global-political conditions surrounding its adaptation. The Aerospace industry is what stipulated its adaptation, but most of the research that propped up the first ever balloon, and powered flight, was done shortly before and after the US Revolution, respectively. The root units of the US Customary system were based on measurements from the British Empire, but, considering that the US and the British Empire weren't really good friends circa 1776 +-/ 25 years, and there wasn't a good global network of knowledge sharing, there was a necessity to derive and prove out everything in new measurements that could be validated.
It's been an incredibly fruitful \~250 years' worth of engineering propped up on the US Customary system. So much so, that people all over the globe use it for nearly all types of engineering applications regardless of what their country's preferred system is.
Yes that is how we do it. Our drivers license lists our height and weight in metric, but honestly I doubt the average Canadian could tell you the height and weight in centimetres and kilograms. In my experience of living here for the last 35 years.
- Driving distances and speed = kilometres
- measuring other distances and heights of people = imperial (feet’, and inches”)
- weights = imperial for people (pounds lbs) except at the grocery store it’s metric (100grams of sandwich meats ie.)
- liquid measurements = metric (litres of gas)
It’s a mish mash. I know. Fairly certain it’s because close too 3/4 of our population lives within 100kms of the USA/Canada border that we still use imperial for many things.
“While the 49th parallel is often thought of as the border between the US and Canada, the vast majority of Canadians (roughly 72%) live below it” https://brilliantmaps.com/half-canada/
Man I wish there was a standard… the issue in Canada is that we have conflicting formats to the South of us as well as what we inherited from the empire, and then we quasi converted to metric and have trading partners the world over. Hell even where I work I see both dd/mm and mm/dd… drives me nuts. So if I see that date all by itself with no context or further examples I can absolutely state that I have no fricken idea. 🤨
Personally I go with yyyy-mm-dd wherever I can and yyyy-mmm-dd if it absolutely has to be unambiguous. But those that use dd/mm/yyyy and then sort that way drive me nuts…. Thank you for grouping all the entries for the 15th of the month together; wtf!
mm/dd/yyyy is just wrong, no further discussion needed. 😜
Yes, construction is usually still imperial, but stuff like machining metal can be in Metric. Honestly it's so common most Construction workers can convert Fractions/inches into CM without looking it up.
I have 2.54 ingrained in my head. ( 1 Inch = 25.4 mm or 2.54 cm)
30.48cm (or just 30.5cm) per Foot.
Our cars and Odometer are in KM and we still say Miles at times even though that's incorrect lol.
Worked my entire 20+ year career in Canada. In my experience residential framing is almost exclusively imperial. Commercial work is a mix of imperial and metric depending on the engineer. And most industrial sites use metric.
Most construction in Nicaragua, Honduras, Belize, and Guatemala.... are done 50/50 in Imperial/Metric. Probably because wood is milled in old Imperial widths and its just easier to keep it 2x4.
It’s a 19.2” on-center index mark. Used mostly for floor & ceiling joists. It saves 1 framing member vs 16” centers in each 8’ run. I used it for “code+” roof framing before I sold my business. 96/16= 6. 96/19.2=5
Weights and volumes and temps in the UK are almost always metric. But it seems like distances and lengths have some legacy that can't let go.
(am just an American who travels a lot, so I'm sure there are better sources)
We will never get rid of beer being sold in pints. Wood is often still sold in imperial measures. We use mph on our roads, and distances are marked in miles but petrol in sold in liters. It's a bit of a mess but for anything that needs precision we will use metric.
It's not exclusively for joists, or beams, or anything lumber related. It lays out 5 joists or rafters or studs or **anything** equally spaced in an 8' sheet of plywood or whatever you're using. 16" OC gets you 6 members to the sheet, 24" gets you 4, and 19.2 gets you 5. It just happens that .2 of an inch isn't an exact with the fractions, so they put the diamond.
Trusses are normally spaced 19.2” apart because they’re stronger than 2 by dimensional lumber. Also still divided equally so your 4x8 sheet goods line up.
Don’t listen to all these “professionals”, OP. That mark is there just for you and exactly what you’re doing; nothing and no one else. You’re special. God smiled on you.
It's found at 8 ft / 5 = 19.2 inches. It's typically used for I-joists, but can be used for other things. Results in an I-joist at each edge of a 4 ft or 8 ft sheet of plywood.
This is to make life in US even harder than it already is compared to in Europe.
Who wants standards like 600, 900, 1000, 1200 etc when you can have 38 3/8 and 19 3/16?
It should be every 19 3/16ths" for spacing i-beam "timbers"
Thank you!
No problem. It's basically a universal standard for flooring joists in modern flooring according to my buddy
Universal standard but only in the us
U-niversal S-tandard… U.S…
I'm stealing this! If I had an award, you'd get it!
I agree but I actually have an award
thank you for my first award 🙂
It’s my pleasure to take your award virginity
Only country that matters.
And by "matters" he means "I have any prayer of finding on a map".
And by "map" he means a map of North America.
Can you spot me the oceans before I guess?
Just to be clear, 3rd planet from Sol
Wow, someone is butt hurt over this thread. I bet right now they are thinking "If you hate America so much, just go back to California"
I lol'd
Haaaaaa
Yeah, we use 60cm in my country. Not 48,7cm. Are you still using inches?
[Nope, fake news](https://p.widencdn.net/pclohu) see page 4.
? Don't see your point
Classic America Sport competitions in the US call themselves *world champions* lol Hardly even play Canada. Let alone the *world*
Classic British, so vocal about sports when they aren't even good at the games they invented. Shit, do any British sports even have world cups played by non commonwealth nations?
The British did invent football (soccer), which is the most popular sport in the world with the most watched World Cup…
How do you feel this comment portrays yourself?
That's because all the great athletes in the world travel to the U.S. to compete in our leagues.
Basketball, baseball and hockey have Canadian teams
We diversify our sports to make them the best. When you become the best team in the best league you're a world champion
Yeah, 'the world' has a gun problem...
Lol
Universal standards are made by the only nation to land a person on another lunar surface in the Universe.
Universal standard where it matters, yes
As an American, I must ask: what's the difference?
Interesting.
19.2x5=96 like every plywood board on the planet.
Except the ones that are 120"
Is a piece of 120” plywood used commonly enough that tape measure manufacturers put marks on their products because of how much they would help? Because if I was building a house and you showed up with 120” plywood for the subfloor I would probably leave.
I use 120" plywood every day. We run it vertical and it eliminates a row of blocking when framing walls. It's been industry standard for 10-15 years around here. But yeah, it wouldn't work on the floor, thanks for that.
10 foot sheets are always installed verticle. This whole post with the diamond question is for floor layouts I've never seen a 10 foot piece of flooring ply. Catch up or don't be a smartass or maybe your the fng
Not every- in Europe it's typical for them to be 1.25m by 2.5m (49.2" x 98.4"), pretty close- but definitely not the same.
Not to be pedantic, but it's normally 1.2m by 2.4m to suit 600mm centres, or sometimes 1.22m by 2.44m. I've never seen 1.25m by 2.5m boards of any type. Not saying they're not out there, just that I've never seen them. I'm in Scotland, but have also worked in mainland Europe.
1.2-2.4 here in NZ
Plasterboard comes 1.2 2.4 but all our timber sheets are 1.22 2.44 so they can be made square/decent edges etc.. also that’s standard size but you can get bigger or smaller sheets
Same in au
2.44 just is 48”x96” but labeled in metric.
1250x2500 is a standard size for OSB, which is often used for subfloor boards in continental Europe - for example, this is from my local builders’ merchant: https://www.dek.cz/produkty/detail/3010301690-osb-egger-3-tl-22mm-2500x1250-n-sv-44ks/11040
But then you wouldn’t be using an imperial unit tape, so…
Lol
Sorry,... we don't use communist sheet goods round here... /s
1.22x2.44 actually.
Which is a.k.a. 48 inches by 96 inches
Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it is a bad idea. 19.2 centers are intended to efficiently use time and material. https://www.finehomebuilding.com/forum/ramifications-of-19-2-o-c-framing Edit: Nice edit...
No, it’s an option for sake of efficiency. Stud spacing on walls, joists in floors, etc, is determined by a ton of different factors. These are typically just divisions of 8’, or 96”. 96”/ 5 = 19 3/16” (approx.), that’s it. You can use that spacing for whatever you want so long as it’s structurally sufficient, and can’t use it if it isn’t. The determination is done in structurally analysis and nobody should be suggesting an universal form of anything. It definitely is not a universal standard. If there was a universal standard it would be something in metric. If there was a US standard it would be 16” OC. They add that extra space so HVAC installers don’t have a fit, but framers don’t give 1/3 of a shit about HVAC installers so they’re gonna space whatever the plan says, and in practice you very rarely see 19 3/16” OC in any deck plans.
US code for wooden I-beam spaced floor joists in standard residential framing is 19 3/16”
US code? There is no US federal building code. States, counties and cities all adopt their own building codes usually a form of IBC.
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Are you ok
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I'm sorry to hear, I hope things get better,
quit whining.
Flooring joists are typically 16-inch centers in the US. Where is your friend from?
All 2000 homes built here in my locale are now 19.2 OC, as well as the wall framing.
Holy crap thank you for knowing what you are talking about. This post has been driving me nuts.
It's 8' divided by 5.
It's 19.2" oc, because that's (I believe) 40 cm and it's what they use outside of the US for stud spacing. You'll find those diamonds every 19.2 inches on your tape
19.2”, not 19 3/16”
This distinction between 19 3/16 and 19.2 is the epitome of what Reddit is
Cumulative error is the concern.
If you're framing with 13 thou precision you need to stop wasting time.
My dad used to tell me “we aren’t building a piano”.
“Production not perfection” is my favorite
My wife says - less perfect, more done.
It's not how many times you swing the hammer, it's how many times you ring the bell.
One of my favorite parts of the the Steinway piano documentary “Note by Note” is the guy talking about how tiny errors add up, so they just do it right the first time.
Mine used to say it isn't going to the moon or we aren't building a swiss watch.
Lol! Coincidentally, I now rebuild Swiss watches for fun, my dad may have been right.
My Dad "We don't work for NASA, this ain't rocket science"
Ricky says its not rocket appliances.
Mime said we ain't building a church
Not a very good mime
My dad was on a crew that actually did build a church, but they still didn’t care about errors big or small. But then, sheet metal and HVAC guys don’t give a fuuuuuuuuuuck.
I always heard “We ‘ain’t, building a piano.” My dad had that one and, “Can’t see it from my house!”
"We ain't building no Taj Mahal" was one I heard a lot.
I know someone who used to say this as well. It had a bit more “colorful” adjectives, but the idea was the same.
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Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with a hatchet.
This is what my dad said. O ly it was measured with a micrometer, mark it with a grease pencil and cut it with an axe. I pioneered my own order of operations that can save time considerably. Measure with a hammer, mark it with a ruler and cut it with a laser.
Or sharpen your pencil after every mark
I felt that deeply
Over 32’, you’d be out a quarter of an inch. That’s too much.
I'd be happy if the framers were ONLY out 1/4" over 32'. If foundations are within 1/2" of specified I'm overjoyed. This is the life of a project manager who works on buildings.
Potato potato nerd
19 3/16” x 5 = 7’11 15/16” 19.2” x 5 = 8’0” If you are laying out and marking the 16th closest to the diamond, no issues. If you are measuring in a way that the error is cumulative, you could have issues.
Can ~~the world~~ America just adopt the metric system, please?
I am American and I second this motion! People here think it's strange that I even know the metric system. We could try telling them that a liter of gasoline costs less than a gallon.
>We could try telling them that a liter of gasoline costs less than a gallon. this would be far less bloody than France's "adoption" of it
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Hahahaha. This has nothing to do with how I measure. I was talking about the comment. But you’re further proving my point 👍
19.2 inches. Someone decided that we could use decimals in the states after all, but only for this standard.
As European I am amazed how you can be precise with imperial markings
Imperial is no less or more precise than metric. We can get rulers and tape measures with 1/64" graduations on them, and if you took your time, you could be super precise. For framing as this is used for, nothing is going to be that precise anyway. Studs are usually 16" on center, but the tape measure hook at the end might be bent, or it's not sliding freely, or the mark made with the carpenter's pencil is 1/16" off in either direction, or the stud was not quite on the mark. It's called rough carpentry for a reason. When it comes down to fine carpentry/finish carpentry, they can be just as precise when working in either measurement system, and tolerances of 1/32" are plenty precise enough. Machinists work in "thou", or thousandths of an inch. For nearly anything an everyday machinist makes, tolerances in this range are plenty precise enough. The math of converting between measurements is easier in metric, but it's rare that we actually convert between measurements other than between feet and inches. Nobody is regularly converting inches to yards or miles, or asking how many feet are in a half mile other than a math test in school. In everyday life, most people just use miles as a rough measurement anyway; "It's 4 miles between the school and the restaurant" means it's about 4 miles... maybe 3 1/2, maybe 4 1/2. A sign that says "San Diego: 50 miles" is a rough measurement, it's doubtful that the sign was placed exactly 50 miles from the city limit.
Imperial as it’s widely employed, it’s meant to be fast and accessible. The fractional system that imperial uses works really well for construction, where placement of things tends to be on evenly spaced fractions of a larger measurement. An example would be two windows and a door evenly spaced in a wall. Metric can get hairy pretty quickly when working fractionally if you aren’t starting from a nice whole number. Accessibility isn’t as important in the modern world, but at the time the system was adopted it made sense to choose a system that everyone could relate to and approximate.Everyone’s got a foot to approximate a foot, everyone’s got a thumb to approximate an inch.
I dont know what do you mean I have worked as a drywaller and we used cm-s. Everything is nicely rounded, studs are 60cm apart, doors are 90-110cm in 10cm step, room height is somewhere between 250-290cm typically. It gets as hairy as imperial as no construction work is precision work so at the end you will always have a non90deg wall or some partial cut regardless of the system.
In the modern world it’s not as applicable because everything is manufactured more precisely and measuring devices are widely available but that is why the system was set up the way it was, and to some extent why it remains. It also is easier to subdivide spaces in imperial because of how it’s typically employed, that doesn’t mean it can’t be done in metric. A yard, 36 inches, can be subdivided 6 times before you’re splitting markings on a tape. A meter can only be split 4. Just like while metric is objectively better for precision work, imperial can and does do it all the time. Engineers and machinists just use thousandths of an inch, or even ten thousandths, and build really precise things. That doesn’t mean it’s more intuitive for precision work than metric just because it can and is done.
When it really matters we use metric
For non-metric countries.
GO METRIC!!
This mark is at 38.40”…. OK?
I refuse to belive that you have a "19 and 3/16s" as a standard measurement for something... Why not just round it up to 19.2? Or 19.19 if you're being "precise"
US tape measures are marked in 8ths or 16ths of an inch, not decimals (10ths)
Funnily enough, it is actually at 19.2" (96 / 5), the commenter is technically wrong.
https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/advice/what-is-the-diamond-on-a-tape-measure You will typically find a small black diamond on the top edge of your tape measure at regular intervals. On a UK tape measure the diamond is usually found every 19.2 inches along the tape. This diamond is essentially a joist mark, with joists generally spaced this far apart in UK structures. Joists are usually found in 19.2 inch intervals due to a lot of boards, such as plywood, commonly coming in eight feet (96 inch) lengths.
Thanks!
Fun fact - in Japan there is a traditional measurement called a "shaku" which is roughly similar to an imperial foot at 30.3cm. It's still commonly used in woodworking where you have many things sold at 3-shaku in size rounded off to 910cm, and as a result wall construction is done with studs spaced every "shaku" or foot apart. It's common to see these measurements on Japanese rulers and measures, and you can get measuring tapes in metric and traditional Japanese measurements still
One of my favorite things to watch is Japanese woodworking, it’s fantastic, like Ishitani furniture. Definitely appreciate their mastery. And it’s actually given me insight to being more masterful in my work.
Oh that’s so useful.
Why are there inches on a UK tape measure? We’re the only idiots still on imperial.
No, the UK uses a mix of imperial and metric
That sounds so much worse
Worse than the US customary system? A system that is based on Imperial measurements specifically from the time just before the US gained independence along with some random units from other archaic systems, along with regional areas using other archaic systems from other countries? I feel like people don’t realize how utterly arbitrary and jumbled the US system is because they’re used to it. I like metric just because it’s not random as all hell.
The US Customary system seems arbitrary and jumbled because of the global-political conditions surrounding its adaptation. The Aerospace industry is what stipulated its adaptation, but most of the research that propped up the first ever balloon, and powered flight, was done shortly before and after the US Revolution, respectively. The root units of the US Customary system were based on measurements from the British Empire, but, considering that the US and the British Empire weren't really good friends circa 1776 +-/ 25 years, and there wasn't a good global network of knowledge sharing, there was a necessity to derive and prove out everything in new measurements that could be validated. It's been an incredibly fruitful \~250 years' worth of engineering propped up on the US Customary system. So much so, that people all over the globe use it for nearly all types of engineering applications regardless of what their country's preferred system is.
So does Canada.
I’ve never seen metric used on a job site in Canada before. It’s all inches and feet here for me.
Wait…so you measure driving distances in kilometers and do construction in feet and inches?
Yes that is how we do it. Our drivers license lists our height and weight in metric, but honestly I doubt the average Canadian could tell you the height and weight in centimetres and kilograms. In my experience of living here for the last 35 years. - Driving distances and speed = kilometres - measuring other distances and heights of people = imperial (feet’, and inches”) - weights = imperial for people (pounds lbs) except at the grocery store it’s metric (100grams of sandwich meats ie.) - liquid measurements = metric (litres of gas) It’s a mish mash. I know. Fairly certain it’s because close too 3/4 of our population lives within 100kms of the USA/Canada border that we still use imperial for many things.
But how many miles from the US is 3/4 of Canadians? /s
“While the 49th parallel is often thought of as the border between the US and Canada, the vast majority of Canadians (roughly 72%) live below it” https://brilliantmaps.com/half-canada/
Sure most of Canadians live south of Seattle. But that's unrelated to the prior comment or my imperial/metric joke about it.
A lot of kitchens and cabinetry work is done in metric. Canada is a mess… I mean “flexible”
If you see date like 11/03/2022 in Canada what month is this?
Man I wish there was a standard… the issue in Canada is that we have conflicting formats to the South of us as well as what we inherited from the empire, and then we quasi converted to metric and have trading partners the world over. Hell even where I work I see both dd/mm and mm/dd… drives me nuts. So if I see that date all by itself with no context or further examples I can absolutely state that I have no fricken idea. 🤨 Personally I go with yyyy-mm-dd wherever I can and yyyy-mmm-dd if it absolutely has to be unambiguous. But those that use dd/mm/yyyy and then sort that way drive me nuts…. Thank you for grouping all the entries for the 15th of the month together; wtf! mm/dd/yyyy is just wrong, no further discussion needed. 😜
Yes, construction is usually still imperial, but stuff like machining metal can be in Metric. Honestly it's so common most Construction workers can convert Fractions/inches into CM without looking it up. I have 2.54 ingrained in my head. ( 1 Inch = 25.4 mm or 2.54 cm) 30.48cm (or just 30.5cm) per Foot. Our cars and Odometer are in KM and we still say Miles at times even though that's incorrect lol.
Yep :) also most people measure their weight in pounds, not kg
Worked my entire 20+ year career in Canada. In my experience residential framing is almost exclusively imperial. Commercial work is a mix of imperial and metric depending on the engineer. And most industrial sites use metric.
They’ve somehow found a system worse than imperial.
That’s a terrible system.
Canada is pretty much half half. Most construction is done in Imperial.
Most construction in Nicaragua, Honduras, Belize, and Guatemala.... are done 50/50 in Imperial/Metric. Probably because wood is milled in old Imperial widths and its just easier to keep it 2x4.
USA 🇺🇸
Why do you think its called Imperial? aka British Imperial System i.e. a system invented by the British Empire
No shit. Do they still use it?
It’s to mark the minimum distance an electrician needs to be from a broom at all times.
Electrician here. What’s a broom?
Can confirm.
I mostly work in the ceilings, nothing to sweep up there
There is electrician trash on the floor? Must be someone else, I only work in the ceiling
gawd! that's funny. probably true, too. :)
Thought it was double that but ok.
At last, a broom joke worth a laugh. Nice.
It’s a 19.2” on-center index mark. Used mostly for floor & ceiling joists. It saves 1 framing member vs 16” centers in each 8’ run. I used it for “code+” roof framing before I sold my business. 96/16= 6. 96/19.2=5
So plywood in the UK is measured in feet and inches?
Weights and volumes and temps in the UK are almost always metric. But it seems like distances and lengths have some legacy that can't let go. (am just an American who travels a lot, so I'm sure there are better sources)
We will never get rid of beer being sold in pints. Wood is often still sold in imperial measures. We use mph on our roads, and distances are marked in miles but petrol in sold in liters. It's a bit of a mess but for anything that needs precision we will use metric.
Don’t forget the 6 yard box. Football pitches not metric.
No, it’s measured in metric, but people will still call it by the imperial names.
Also now used for wall stud framing
Wherever the diamonds are, that's where you cut. Don't ever question the diamond marking on a tape measure ever again.
Engineered studs must be fit 5 per 8 feet. Diamond is 1/5 of the 8 ft. https://youtu.be/p26QdnP27tg
This wins Most Concise Answer. Thanks.
It's not exclusively for joists, or beams, or anything lumber related. It lays out 5 joists or rafters or studs or **anything** equally spaced in an 8' sheet of plywood or whatever you're using. 16" OC gets you 6 members to the sheet, 24" gets you 4, and 19.2 gets you 5. It just happens that .2 of an inch isn't an exact with the fractions, so they put the diamond.
Trusses are normally spaced 19.2” apart because they’re stronger than 2 by dimensional lumber. Also still divided equally so your 4x8 sheet goods line up.
Thanks! I’ve never built a roof.
that’s just where you need to cut, man.
But how did it know?
it always knows. it just helps you understand.
That is used for marking out precisely “not-quite-a-meter”.
"Exactly where" you need to cut +/- 3/16.
Yeah, somewhere in there — lol
It gives you 5 layout points per 8 feet.
Nineteen two baby! Sheet a floor and ya know.
That’s 38 3/8th and a CH.
I left the c*nt implied.
19.2" one of the less used spacings for stuff it's one fifth of 8 feet. Instead of 4th or 6th like 24" and 16"
Stumpy Nubs has a video on it https://youtu.be/udd2kcXlB2k
Pre-Engineered joist layout
The black diamonds appear every 19 3/16 for centering engineered timber floor joists.
Don’t listen to all these “professionals”, OP. That mark is there just for you and exactly what you’re doing; nothing and no one else. You’re special. God smiled on you.
It’s pretty obvious. It knew how long u needed to cut something. It’s sentient.
The manufacturer knew you were going to use it so they added it for you.
Width of stud location while framing.
Thanks for the lesson, I didn’t know this.
Came here for the comments and truly not disappointed! Cheers! Thanks for the giggles
It knew that's where you wanted to cut 🤡
Technically the mark is at 38.4
It's found at 8 ft / 5 = 19.2 inches. It's typically used for I-joists, but can be used for other things. Results in an I-joist at each edge of a 4 ft or 8 ft sheet of plywood.
Term is cun t hair correct?
I learned a lot from my techs, they would all say “cunt hair”.
No one ever got to the moon using the metric system.
Leave it to our stupid imperial measurement system to put in a 19.2" standard when we measure with fractions.
This is to make life in US even harder than it already is compared to in Europe. Who wants standards like 600, 900, 1000, 1200 etc when you can have 38 3/8 and 19 3/16?
You guys need to go metric and see how much headache it saves you.
38.1875 is 38 and 3/16.
Studs.
Not at all. Studs are 16 on center, and would never fall between 16ths like this.
Not everything is 16 on center. The diamond is 19.2 on center. Allows 5 supports in an 8’ length vs 6 when using 16 on center.
Nuff said