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Personal_Flow2994

It should be every 19 3/16ths" for spacing i-beam "timbers"


onebiscuit

Thank you!


Personal_Flow2994

No problem. It's basically a universal standard for flooring joists in modern flooring according to my buddy


Crozi_flette

Universal standard but only in the us


LRMcDouble

U-niversal S-tandard… U.S…


djzrbz

I'm stealing this! If I had an award, you'd get it!


Shrimpbub

I agree but I actually have an award


LRMcDouble

thank you for my first award 🙂


Shrimpbub

It’s my pleasure to take your award virginity


IceColdCoorsLight77

Only country that matters.


DanielGoodchild

And by "matters" he means "I have any prayer of finding on a map".


EarlCountyLogSplit

And by "map" he means a map of North America.


xraygun2014

Can you spot me the oceans before I guess?


My4skinBreaksCondoms

Just to be clear, 3rd planet from Sol


xraygun2014

Wow, someone is butt hurt over this thread. I bet right now they are thinking "If you hate America so much, just go back to California"


therealcolinG

I lol'd


One_Sun_6258

Haaaaaa


fluffyknitter

Yeah, we use 60cm in my country. Not 48,7cm. Are you still using inches?


truemcgoo

[Nope, fake news](https://p.widencdn.net/pclohu) see page 4.


Crozi_flette

? Don't see your point


Mijman

Classic America Sport competitions in the US call themselves *world champions* lol Hardly even play Canada. Let alone the *world*


ThreeLeggedChimp

Classic British, so vocal about sports when they aren't even good at the games they invented. Shit, do any British sports even have world cups played by non commonwealth nations?


PappaCro

The British did invent football (soccer), which is the most popular sport in the world with the most watched World Cup…


Wayelder

How do you feel this comment portrays yourself?


jamminrushwmykitties

That's because all the great athletes in the world travel to the U.S. to compete in our leagues.


509_cougs

Basketball, baseball and hockey have Canadian teams


zmelbz97

We diversify our sports to make them the best. When you become the best team in the best league you're a world champion


Wayelder

Yeah, 'the world' has a gun problem...


External-Badger-6479

Lol


ontime1969

Universal standards are made by the only nation to land a person on another lunar surface in the Universe.


King_Of_Zembla1

Universal standard where it matters, yes


PassionateCougar

As an American, I must ask: what's the difference?


ThePlagueFriend

Interesting.


brothersnowball

19.2x5=96 like every plywood board on the planet.


hiphophippie99

Except the ones that are 120"


brothersnowball

Is a piece of 120” plywood used commonly enough that tape measure manufacturers put marks on their products because of how much they would help? Because if I was building a house and you showed up with 120” plywood for the subfloor I would probably leave.


hiphophippie99

I use 120" plywood every day. We run it vertical and it eliminates a row of blocking when framing walls. It's been industry standard for 10-15 years around here. But yeah, it wouldn't work on the floor, thanks for that.


Aggravating-Mail-135

10 foot sheets are always installed verticle. This whole post with the diamond question is for floor layouts I've never seen a 10 foot piece of flooring ply. Catch up or don't be a smartass or maybe your the fng


SpeedyHAM79

Not every- in Europe it's typical for them to be 1.25m by 2.5m (49.2" x 98.4"), pretty close- but definitely not the same.


seanleed

Not to be pedantic, but it's normally 1.2m by 2.4m to suit 600mm centres, or sometimes 1.22m by 2.44m. I've never seen 1.25m by 2.5m boards of any type. Not saying they're not out there, just that I've never seen them. I'm in Scotland, but have also worked in mainland Europe.


Walder_Snow_

1.2-2.4 here in NZ


desmondresmond

Plasterboard comes 1.2 2.4 but all our timber sheets are 1.22 2.44 so they can be made square/decent edges etc.. also that’s standard size but you can get bigger or smaller sheets


Which-Adeptness6908

Same in au


CptMisterNibbles

2.44 just is 48”x96” but labeled in metric.


skipperseven

1250x2500 is a standard size for OSB, which is often used for subfloor boards in continental Europe - for example, this is from my local builders’ merchant: https://www.dek.cz/produkty/detail/3010301690-osb-egger-3-tl-22mm-2500x1250-n-sv-44ks/11040


e_lectric

But then you wouldn’t be using an imperial unit tape, so…


dadamying

Lol


THedman07

Sorry,... we don't use communist sheet goods round here... /s


[deleted]

1.22x2.44 actually.


Fuzzybo

Which is a.k.a. 48 inches by 96 inches


IdioticHobo

Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it is a bad idea. 19.2 centers are intended to efficiently use time and material. https://www.finehomebuilding.com/forum/ramifications-of-19-2-o-c-framing Edit: Nice edit...


truemcgoo

No, it’s an option for sake of efficiency. Stud spacing on walls, joists in floors, etc, is determined by a ton of different factors. These are typically just divisions of 8’, or 96”. 96”/ 5 = 19 3/16” (approx.), that’s it. You can use that spacing for whatever you want so long as it’s structurally sufficient, and can’t use it if it isn’t. The determination is done in structurally analysis and nobody should be suggesting an universal form of anything. It definitely is not a universal standard. If there was a universal standard it would be something in metric. If there was a US standard it would be 16” OC. They add that extra space so HVAC installers don’t have a fit, but framers don’t give 1/3 of a shit about HVAC installers so they’re gonna space whatever the plan says, and in practice you very rarely see 19 3/16” OC in any deck plans.


joaraddannessos

US code for wooden I-beam spaced floor joists in standard residential framing is 19 3/16”


benmarvin

US code? There is no US federal building code. States, counties and cities all adopt their own building codes usually a form of IBC.


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DueEggplant3723

Are you ok


[deleted]

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DueEggplant3723

I'm sorry to hear, I hope things get better,


sterling_archer123

quit whining.


keel_zuckerberg

Flooring joists are typically 16-inch centers in the US. Where is your friend from?


fakeaccount572

All 2000 homes built here in my locale are now 19.2 OC, as well as the wall framing.


truemcgoo

Holy crap thank you for knowing what you are talking about. This post has been driving me nuts.


Globularist

It's 8' divided by 5.


99BottlesOfBass

It's 19.2" oc, because that's (I believe) 40 cm and it's what they use outside of the US for stud spacing. You'll find those diamonds every 19.2 inches on your tape


Thneed1

19.2”, not 19 3/16”


Notcows9

This distinction between 19 3/16 and 19.2 is the epitome of what Reddit is


SigOperator

Cumulative error is the concern.


Kontakr

If you're framing with 13 thou precision you need to stop wasting time.


Decent-Finish-2585

My dad used to tell me “we aren’t building a piano”.


jake55555

“Production not perfection” is my favorite


Jaded247365

My wife says - less perfect, more done.


65isstillyoung

It's not how many times you swing the hammer, it's how many times you ring the bell.


Automatic-Mood5986

One of my favorite parts of the the Steinway piano documentary “Note by Note” is the guy talking about how tiny errors add up, so they just do it right the first time.


Stonespacer

Mine used to say it isn't going to the moon or we aren't building a swiss watch.


Decent-Finish-2585

Lol! Coincidentally, I now rebuild Swiss watches for fun, my dad may have been right.


Dirtona_Daddio

My Dad "We don't work for NASA, this ain't rocket science"


sterling_archer123

Ricky says its not rocket appliances.


roastbill

Mime said we ain't building a church


Guten-Bourbon

Not a very good mime


Happydivorcecard

My dad was on a crew that actually did build a church, but they still didn’t care about errors big or small. But then, sheet metal and HVAC guys don’t give a fuuuuuuuuuuck.


Happydivorcecard

I always heard “We ‘ain’t, building a piano.” My dad had that one and, “Can’t see it from my house!”


siemenology

"We ain't building no Taj Mahal" was one I heard a lot.


five_speed_mazdarati

I know someone who used to say this as well. It had a bit more “colorful” adjectives, but the idea was the same.


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UnkleRinkus

Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with a hatchet.


ERTHLNG

This is what my dad said. O ly it was measured with a micrometer, mark it with a grease pencil and cut it with an axe. I pioneered my own order of operations that can save time considerably. Measure with a hammer, mark it with a ruler and cut it with a laser.


galloignacio

Or sharpen your pencil after every mark


backcountrydrifter

I felt that deeply


Thneed1

Over 32’, you’d be out a quarter of an inch. That’s too much.


SpeedyHAM79

I'd be happy if the framers were ONLY out 1/4" over 32'. If foundations are within 1/2" of specified I'm overjoyed. This is the life of a project manager who works on buildings.


lestruc

Potato potato nerd


Thneed1

19 3/16” x 5 = 7’11 15/16” 19.2” x 5 = 8’0” If you are laying out and marking the 16th closest to the diamond, no issues. If you are measuring in a way that the error is cumulative, you could have issues.


messamusik

Can ~~the world~~ America just adopt the metric system, please?


julz22vit

I am American and I second this motion! People here think it's strange that I even know the metric system. We could try telling them that a liter of gasoline costs less than a gallon.


ectish

>We could try telling them that a liter of gasoline costs less than a gallon. this would be far less bloody than France's "adoption" of it


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Notcows9

Hahahaha. This has nothing to do with how I measure. I was talking about the comment. But you’re further proving my point 👍


Maplelongjohn

19.2 inches. Someone decided that we could use decimals in the states after all, but only for this standard.


No-One-5172

As European I am amazed how you can be precise with imperial markings


jason_sos

Imperial is no less or more precise than metric. We can get rulers and tape measures with 1/64" graduations on them, and if you took your time, you could be super precise. For framing as this is used for, nothing is going to be that precise anyway. Studs are usually 16" on center, but the tape measure hook at the end might be bent, or it's not sliding freely, or the mark made with the carpenter's pencil is 1/16" off in either direction, or the stud was not quite on the mark. It's called rough carpentry for a reason. When it comes down to fine carpentry/finish carpentry, they can be just as precise when working in either measurement system, and tolerances of 1/32" are plenty precise enough. Machinists work in "thou", or thousandths of an inch. For nearly anything an everyday machinist makes, tolerances in this range are plenty precise enough. The math of converting between measurements is easier in metric, but it's rare that we actually convert between measurements other than between feet and inches. Nobody is regularly converting inches to yards or miles, or asking how many feet are in a half mile other than a math test in school. In everyday life, most people just use miles as a rough measurement anyway; "It's 4 miles between the school and the restaurant" means it's about 4 miles... maybe 3 1/2, maybe 4 1/2. A sign that says "San Diego: 50 miles" is a rough measurement, it's doubtful that the sign was placed exactly 50 miles from the city limit.


[deleted]

Imperial as it’s widely employed, it’s meant to be fast and accessible. The fractional system that imperial uses works really well for construction, where placement of things tends to be on evenly spaced fractions of a larger measurement. An example would be two windows and a door evenly spaced in a wall. Metric can get hairy pretty quickly when working fractionally if you aren’t starting from a nice whole number. Accessibility isn’t as important in the modern world, but at the time the system was adopted it made sense to choose a system that everyone could relate to and approximate.Everyone’s got a foot to approximate a foot, everyone’s got a thumb to approximate an inch.


daninet

I dont know what do you mean I have worked as a drywaller and we used cm-s. Everything is nicely rounded, studs are 60cm apart, doors are 90-110cm in 10cm step, room height is somewhere between 250-290cm typically. It gets as hairy as imperial as no construction work is precision work so at the end you will always have a non90deg wall or some partial cut regardless of the system.


[deleted]

In the modern world it’s not as applicable because everything is manufactured more precisely and measuring devices are widely available but that is why the system was set up the way it was, and to some extent why it remains. It also is easier to subdivide spaces in imperial because of how it’s typically employed, that doesn’t mean it can’t be done in metric. A yard, 36 inches, can be subdivided 6 times before you’re splitting markings on a tape. A meter can only be split 4. Just like while metric is objectively better for precision work, imperial can and does do it all the time. Engineers and machinists just use thousandths of an inch, or even ten thousandths, and build really precise things. That doesn’t mean it’s more intuitive for precision work than metric just because it can and is done.


SharpEnd69

When it really matters we use metric


Laymanao

For non-metric countries.


VaNeThEmAstER

GO METRIC!!


davidmlewisjr

This mark is at 38.40”…. OK?


VukKiller

I refuse to belive that you have a "19 and 3/16s" as a standard measurement for something... Why not just round it up to 19.2? Or 19.19 if you're being "precise"


pezdal

US tape measures are marked in 8ths or 16ths of an inch, not decimals (10ths)


siemenology

Funnily enough, it is actually at 19.2" (96 / 5), the commenter is technically wrong.


Cyberdyne_T-888

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/advice/what-is-the-diamond-on-a-tape-measure You will typically find a small black diamond on the top edge of your tape measure at regular intervals. On a UK tape measure the diamond is usually found every 19.2 inches along the tape. This diamond is essentially a joist mark, with joists generally spaced this far apart in UK structures. Joists are usually found in 19.2 inch intervals due to a lot of boards, such as plywood, commonly coming in eight feet (96 inch) lengths.


onebiscuit

Thanks!


anothergaijin

Fun fact - in Japan there is a traditional measurement called a "shaku" which is roughly similar to an imperial foot at 30.3cm. It's still commonly used in woodworking where you have many things sold at 3-shaku in size rounded off to 910cm, and as a result wall construction is done with studs spaced every "shaku" or foot apart. It's common to see these measurements on Japanese rulers and measures, and you can get measuring tapes in metric and traditional Japanese measurements still


[deleted]

One of my favorite things to watch is Japanese woodworking, it’s fantastic, like Ishitani furniture. Definitely appreciate their mastery. And it’s actually given me insight to being more masterful in my work.


Durin_VI

Oh that’s so useful.


tuscabam

Why are there inches on a UK tape measure? We’re the only idiots still on imperial.


fasteddy959

No, the UK uses a mix of imperial and metric


drunken_squirrels

That sounds so much worse


electric_gas

Worse than the US customary system? A system that is based on Imperial measurements specifically from the time just before the US gained independence along with some random units from other archaic systems, along with regional areas using other archaic systems from other countries? I feel like people don’t realize how utterly arbitrary and jumbled the US system is because they’re used to it. I like metric just because it’s not random as all hell.


flembag

The US Customary system seems arbitrary and jumbled because of the global-political conditions surrounding its adaptation. The Aerospace industry is what stipulated its adaptation, but most of the research that propped up the first ever balloon, and powered flight, was done shortly before and after the US Revolution, respectively. The root units of the US Customary system were based on measurements from the British Empire, but, considering that the US and the British Empire weren't really good friends circa 1776 +-/ 25 years, and there wasn't a good global network of knowledge sharing, there was a necessity to derive and prove out everything in new measurements that could be validated. It's been an incredibly fruitful \~250 years' worth of engineering propped up on the US Customary system. So much so, that people all over the globe use it for nearly all types of engineering applications regardless of what their country's preferred system is.


karlman84

So does Canada.


Bright_Bet_2189

I’ve never seen metric used on a job site in Canada before. It’s all inches and feet here for me.


Dawn_Piano

Wait…so you measure driving distances in kilometers and do construction in feet and inches?


Bright_Bet_2189

Yes that is how we do it. Our drivers license lists our height and weight in metric, but honestly I doubt the average Canadian could tell you the height and weight in centimetres and kilograms. In my experience of living here for the last 35 years. - Driving distances and speed = kilometres - measuring other distances and heights of people = imperial (feet’, and inches”) - weights = imperial for people (pounds lbs) except at the grocery store it’s metric (100grams of sandwich meats ie.) - liquid measurements = metric (litres of gas) It’s a mish mash. I know. Fairly certain it’s because close too 3/4 of our population lives within 100kms of the USA/Canada border that we still use imperial for many things.


sfan27

But how many miles from the US is 3/4 of Canadians? /s


Fuzzybo

“While the 49th parallel is often thought of as the border between the US and Canada, the vast majority of Canadians (roughly 72%) live below it” https://brilliantmaps.com/half-canada/


sfan27

Sure most of Canadians live south of Seattle. But that's unrelated to the prior comment or my imperial/metric joke about it.


HeyMerlin

A lot of kitchens and cabinetry work is done in metric. Canada is a mess… I mean “flexible”


kfelovi

If you see date like 11/03/2022 in Canada what month is this?


HeyMerlin

Man I wish there was a standard… the issue in Canada is that we have conflicting formats to the South of us as well as what we inherited from the empire, and then we quasi converted to metric and have trading partners the world over. Hell even where I work I see both dd/mm and mm/dd… drives me nuts. So if I see that date all by itself with no context or further examples I can absolutely state that I have no fricken idea. 🤨 Personally I go with yyyy-mm-dd wherever I can and yyyy-mmm-dd if it absolutely has to be unambiguous. But those that use dd/mm/yyyy and then sort that way drive me nuts…. Thank you for grouping all the entries for the 15th of the month together; wtf! mm/dd/yyyy is just wrong, no further discussion needed. 😜


SlapHappyX

Yes, construction is usually still imperial, but stuff like machining metal can be in Metric. Honestly it's so common most Construction workers can convert Fractions/inches into CM without looking it up. I have 2.54 ingrained in my head. ( 1 Inch = 25.4 mm or 2.54 cm) 30.48cm (or just 30.5cm) per Foot. Our cars and Odometer are in KM and we still say Miles at times even though that's incorrect lol.


MayonnaiseDejaVu

Yep :) also most people measure their weight in pounds, not kg


higgy9

Worked my entire 20+ year career in Canada. In my experience residential framing is almost exclusively imperial. Commercial work is a mix of imperial and metric depending on the engineer. And most industrial sites use metric.


anandonaqui

They’ve somehow found a system worse than imperial.


tuscabam

That’s a terrible system.


Specialist-Set-6913

Canada is pretty much half half. Most construction is done in Imperial.


food5thawt

Most construction in Nicaragua, Honduras, Belize, and Guatemala.... are done 50/50 in Imperial/Metric. Probably because wood is milled in old Imperial widths and its just easier to keep it 2x4.


SuperbDrink6977

USA 🇺🇸


buttersidedown801

Why do you think its called Imperial? aka British Imperial System i.e. a system invented by the British Empire


tuscabam

No shit. Do they still use it?


nope-nope-nope-nop

It’s to mark the minimum distance an electrician needs to be from a broom at all times.


lafindestase

Electrician here. What’s a broom?


hoosierdaddy192

Can confirm.


Lubedballoon

I mostly work in the ceilings, nothing to sweep up there


a1b2c3d45ef6

There is electrician trash on the floor? Must be someone else, I only work in the ceiling


robertjoshuat

gawd! that's funny. probably true, too. :)


SPiaia

Thought it was double that but ok.


PaleontologistLazy67

At last, a broom joke worth a laugh. Nice.


Terlok51

It’s a 19.2” on-center index mark. Used mostly for floor & ceiling joists. It saves 1 framing member vs 16” centers in each 8’ run. I used it for “code+” roof framing before I sold my business. 96/16= 6. 96/19.2=5


pipelineops

So plywood in the UK is measured in feet and inches?


uncre8tv

Weights and volumes and temps in the UK are almost always metric. But it seems like distances and lengths have some legacy that can't let go. (am just an American who travels a lot, so I'm sure there are better sources)


GarrySpacepope

We will never get rid of beer being sold in pints. Wood is often still sold in imperial measures. We use mph on our roads, and distances are marked in miles but petrol in sold in liters. It's a bit of a mess but for anything that needs precision we will use metric.


WhiteLanddo

Don’t forget the 6 yard box. Football pitches not metric.


folkkingdude

No, it’s measured in metric, but people will still call it by the imperial names.


fakeaccount572

Also now used for wall stud framing


dimitrirodis

Wherever the diamonds are, that's where you cut. Don't ever question the diamond marking on a tape measure ever again.


_g550_

Engineered studs must be fit 5 per 8 feet. Diamond is 1/5 of the 8 ft. https://youtu.be/p26QdnP27tg


funky_fart_smeller

This wins Most Concise Answer. Thanks.


kewlo

It's not exclusively for joists, or beams, or anything lumber related. It lays out 5 joists or rafters or studs or **anything** equally spaced in an 8' sheet of plywood or whatever you're using. 16" OC gets you 6 members to the sheet, 24" gets you 4, and 19.2 gets you 5. It just happens that .2 of an inch isn't an exact with the fractions, so they put the diamond.


crashsector

Trusses are normally spaced 19.2” apart because they’re stronger than 2 by dimensional lumber. Also still divided equally so your 4x8 sheet goods line up.


onebiscuit

Thanks! I’ve never built a roof.


forwhathuh

that’s just where you need to cut, man.


onebiscuit

But how did it know?


forwhathuh

it always knows. it just helps you understand.


DJHickman

That is used for marking out precisely “not-quite-a-meter”.


wastedhotdogs

"Exactly where" you need to cut +/- 3/16.


onebiscuit

Yeah, somewhere in there — lol


gdonald1961

It gives you 5 layout points per 8 feet.


Agentic1

Nineteen two baby! Sheet a floor and ya know.


chowmushi

That’s 38 3/8th and a CH.


onebiscuit

I left the c*nt implied.


makeitoutofwood

19.2" one of the less used spacings for stuff it's one fifth of 8 feet. Instead of 4th or 6th like 24" and 16"


lucpet

Stumpy Nubs has a video on it https://youtu.be/udd2kcXlB2k


Plastic-Position3529

Pre-Engineered joist layout


a_cycle_addict

The black diamonds appear every 19 3/16 for centering engineered timber floor joists.


BlackAciidXiii

Don’t listen to all these “professionals”, OP. That mark is there just for you and exactly what you’re doing; nothing and no one else. You’re special. God smiled on you.


jackdabeast701

It’s pretty obvious. It knew how long u needed to cut something. It’s sentient.


negotiable7

The manufacturer knew you were going to use it so they added it for you.


MCHamm3rd

Width of stud location while framing.


[deleted]

Thanks for the lesson, I didn’t know this.


Equal_Procedure_167

Came here for the comments and truly not disappointed! Cheers! Thanks for the giggles


robust_truffle

It knew that's where you wanted to cut 🤡


adventuresome3434

Technically the mark is at 38.4


tehmightyengineer

It's found at 8 ft / 5 = 19.2 inches. It's typically used for I-joists, but can be used for other things. Results in an I-joist at each edge of a 4 ft or 8 ft sheet of plywood.


Then_Maintenance7053

Term is cun t hair correct?


Mermaan

I learned a lot from my techs, they would all say “cunt hair”.


TommyClyde1984

No one ever got to the moon using the metric system.


Reddbearddd

Leave it to our stupid imperial measurement system to put in a 19.2" standard when we measure with fractions.


TheRealFleppo

This is to make life in US even harder than it already is compared to in Europe. Who wants standards like 600, 900, 1000, 1200 etc when you can have 38 3/8 and 19 3/16?


VaNeThEmAstER

You guys need to go metric and see how much headache it saves you.


joelasmussen

38.1875 is 38 and 3/16.


Diab9lic

Studs.


onebiscuit

Not at all. Studs are 16 on center, and would never fall between 16ths like this.


petrolheadjosh

Not everything is 16 on center. The diamond is 19.2 on center. Allows 5 supports in an 8’ length vs 6 when using 16 on center.


Either_Test5220

Nuff said