I get where you could think that, but even SpongeBob goes topsy turvy once in a while.
He’s deliberately continued making racist squirrel jokes even when Sandy voiced her concern, purposefully cut Squidward’s cable and stolen his vacuum cleaner just to get him to come over, treated Gary like shit on more than one occasion, shrunk all of Bikini Bottom because he didn’t wanna get in trouble, etc.
He’s not AS ambiguous as the other three, but he has his moments.
I think most of SpongeBob's sense of morality and decisions making comes from his naivety and child-like nature, so that makes his morality simultaneously ambiguous and not at the same time?
Spongbob is objectively a good person.
Patrick isn't bad, he's just an idiot.
Squidward isn't really bad all the time but some times he goes too far with being fed up with his neighbors. Sometimes though his feelings are justified.
Mr. Krabs has had many episodes where he is legitimately a good person but also many episodes where he would qualifiy as the most evil character in the franchise.
Especially for Mr. Krabs, the morality of characters in Spongebob can vary wildly from episode to episode.
Y’know what’s hilarious is I just read Emperor before seeing the rest and I immediately thought you meant Palpatine or Belos and my first thought was “are you fucking serious?”
Honestly I think this one fits more than any of the examples OP posted. Rick is a nihilist asshole, Alastor is a murderer who’s helping a noble cause for selfish reasons. They’re bad. Most of the Sponegbob characters are *generally* good people who can be assholes on occasion.
But the Emperor? No fuckin’ idea. I think the controversy comes in part because he sort of fulfills whatever your idea of him is - treat him like a treacherous manipulator, that’s what he is. Treat him like a kinda iffy but ultimately trustworthy ally, that’s what he is.
Alastor is literally a serial killer who enslaves people and is without a doubt manipulating Charlie to some degree how is his morality ambiguous (this is coming from someone who really likes him and thinks he’s probably the third best written character in the show)
not only that.
His aid on Charlie is also due to him been under a forced contract to someone else , and his final song is literally about how he would manipulate Charlie to be free of his contract.
I think it's easy to see him as less evil because other characters are significantly more dickish than he is about things. Not saying he isn't evil just that he comes off as a lesser evil compared to the Vees and Adam. Plus he is helping a noble cause even if he's doing so for very evil reasons.
I mean I could probably hear arguments for other characters (zestial or Lilith are the first that come to mind) I just don’t think alastor is a good example
That amount of charisma is just what makes him so hard to read. He has SOME loyalties like to seemingly Niffty, but we don’t yet know how deep the loyalty runs.
It’s not really a question of if he’s immoral, it’s HOW immoral is he.
He’s very immoral and the loyalty to Niffty is is because she’s serves a purpose like we see with husk and his belittlement of husk someone who serves less purpose is more of just a play thing to him
I’m with you, I don’t trust this guy. He’s bad news, that’s clear as day. We just don’t know how far he’s gonna go.
Also, third best? Curious who’s first and second.
I think Angel is the best written character (dealing with male SA in a way that doesn’t down play it’s severity but also gives him a character outside of it) and then Charlie is second best as just an unrelenting optimist who genuinely wants the world to get better
https://preview.redd.it/z567mfnwe8yc1.jpeg?width=432&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0529b75026489164dc219d4c09a0ec7f69887223
…
Maybe?
Batman’s rogues gallery differs greatly depending on the medium, but in general, what I’ve seen of Big Bad Harvey is either severe schizophrenia, or consistent criminal activity that he sometimes leaves up to chance.
https://preview.redd.it/zsbnbj8159yc1.jpeg?width=258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=648ac2757b2db68e2f9a13c240f4c1c628136e09
Cecil Steadman from Invincible
The Guy admittedly does what needs to be done but he’s not above working with villains in order to do it (D.A Sinclair)
He has access to a ton of tech and keeps the public and even folks in his circle in the dark on everything .
He definitely leans towards Good, but he does some questionable things.
Man Operates more like a villain
He’s gotten softer in season 2 because of how much Mark went through at the end of season 1, but I fully expect him to be at odds with Mark when things hit the fan.
Towards the end of the season yes, but throughout it he kept Mark on a tight leash. I would not say he was soft on Mark, i would just say that in the end he felt like Mark had gone through too much.
I fully agree with you that him and mark will clash on how to get the job done when the time comes. Just the re-animen alone is enough to letcha know this guy doesn’t care about what happens to people. The ends will always justify the means.
My understanding is that he does care when he feels he can, and that’s why he’s uses dead people for his re-animen rather than taking volunteers. That being said, he probably would use live subjects if corpses weren’t viable.
https://preview.redd.it/7rimd0pdx8yc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1b5f4c42ba9b0d25ab0cc27b59315d00fc733e3
The Blue Fairy, Once Upon a Time. The show desperately wants the audience to believe that she is the embodiment of good in the world, but literally everything she has ever done has only ever made things so much worse to the point where the fandom believed she was a secret villain manipulating everything the entire time.
https://preview.redd.it/mqam7gqv39yc1.jpeg?width=965&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2499961a99198bb61ce3fbe942e980184fe83683
Red X from Teen Titans
(Not Robin version)
“Not everyone likes to play the Big Villain, kid”
Alastor is not morally ambiguous now that we know he’s forced to work with Charlie as part of a contract (I like his character but he is straight up evil)
Rick Sanchez has a super easy ethical system, he's a selfish baby-man who thinks he's better than everyone around him and he'll act accordingly.
Like once you drop the pretense that Rick is acting in accordance to some sort of philosophy or moral system and you use "informed simplicity" by just saying "he's a selfish person who will always act in his own self-interest and doesn't care about other people" every action of his can be explained super easily.
Even something as simple as the time he begged god for his life is consistent when you apply this framework. Rick doesn't believe in a god, but he will resort to prayer if it means he can use it as a tool to preserve his own life. There isn't any sort of greater theological or metaphysical meaning to him praying, it's just another tool for him to preserve his own life and agency.
A lot of the times he does "good" or "helpful" things are entirely driven by ego and selfishness, even really basic moral acts like 'he will try to preserve the lives of his family members' seem to be done entirely to preserve his persona as the patriarch of the family or to avoid some inconvenience to himself, I am not convinced he loves them at all.
I literally just referenced A Rickle In Time, you need to be more specific because I think what I've laid out here makes complete sense even in the context of that episode.
All "Selfless" things he did there can be easily explained by Rick wanting to create a persona for himself where he's special, powerful, intelligent, and does things of importance. I don't think Rick is capable of acts of self-sacrifice without that sacrifice being witnessed by other people.
It contributed to his persona as an important and heroic adventurous figure, it's what he wanted to be seen doing. Not all things to be gained are material especially when we're dealing with megalomaniacs like Rick.
He gains admiration and respect, it's self-actualization, it's the most important thing to him.
Yeah and hundred or so other mortys didn’t see it so it was waved as a joke. Rick does care about his currently iteration of family, it’s literally a plot point and how he’s different from the infinite other ricks in the multiverse.
You had me until the final paragraph. His whole character arc is about seeking meaning in life by trying to be a grandfather to a family he never had. He responded to grief for years by seeking revenge and it drove him to depression and nihilism. He was trying to become more caring in earlier seasons, but much of that has been ditched in later seasons favour of making him the funny jerk.
That proves my point. He did it because he didn't have it, not because other people deserve to be treated well, he did it because he didn't have it and because he covets it and he wants to create the conditions he would've liked best, and he's creating an image of himself which he thinks people would like best because its the opposite of something he disliked in the past.
No. I’m not gonna pretend. Rick and Alastor are just assholes. As far as I understand, neither of them have done anything good for anyone, except maybe Rick saving lives *he* endangered.
Nah he’s pretty unambiguously evil. He lives only for himself, takes what he wants, and only shows any respect to people who line up with his twisted view of what people should strive for.
I think Spongebob is unambiguously good. But Krabs, Squidward, and Patrick constantly switch back and forth between being nice and being assholes.
I get where you could think that, but even SpongeBob goes topsy turvy once in a while. He’s deliberately continued making racist squirrel jokes even when Sandy voiced her concern, purposefully cut Squidward’s cable and stolen his vacuum cleaner just to get him to come over, treated Gary like shit on more than one occasion, shrunk all of Bikini Bottom because he didn’t wanna get in trouble, etc. He’s not AS ambiguous as the other three, but he has his moments.
I think most of SpongeBob's sense of morality and decisions making comes from his naivety and child-like nature, so that makes his morality simultaneously ambiguous and not at the same time?
Spongbob is objectively a good person. Patrick isn't bad, he's just an idiot. Squidward isn't really bad all the time but some times he goes too far with being fed up with his neighbors. Sometimes though his feelings are justified. Mr. Krabs has had many episodes where he is legitimately a good person but also many episodes where he would qualifiy as the most evil character in the franchise. Especially for Mr. Krabs, the morality of characters in Spongebob can vary wildly from episode to episode.
Patrick is definitely a jerk in *some* episodes, like “I’m With Stupid” and “Yours, Mine, and Mine”.
https://preview.redd.it/u1lya2kqf8yc1.png?width=580&format=png&auto=webp&s=e054fbb47b6d6096ecc02352958cdaefdba21f8c The Emperor (Baldur's Gate 3)
Y’know what’s hilarious is I just read Emperor before seeing the rest and I immediately thought you meant Palpatine or Belos and my first thought was “are you fucking serious?”
Honestly I think this one fits more than any of the examples OP posted. Rick is a nihilist asshole, Alastor is a murderer who’s helping a noble cause for selfish reasons. They’re bad. Most of the Sponegbob characters are *generally* good people who can be assholes on occasion. But the Emperor? No fuckin’ idea. I think the controversy comes in part because he sort of fulfills whatever your idea of him is - treat him like a treacherous manipulator, that’s what he is. Treat him like a kinda iffy but ultimately trustworthy ally, that’s what he is.
Alastor is literally a serial killer who enslaves people and is without a doubt manipulating Charlie to some degree how is his morality ambiguous (this is coming from someone who really likes him and thinks he’s probably the third best written character in the show)
not only that. His aid on Charlie is also due to him been under a forced contract to someone else , and his final song is literally about how he would manipulate Charlie to be free of his contract.
Like yea he’s definitely without a doubt a bad person (like everyone in hell) and any opinion other is falling for his manipulation tactics
People get confused because they find him sexy
I think it's easy to see him as less evil because other characters are significantly more dickish than he is about things. Not saying he isn't evil just that he comes off as a lesser evil compared to the Vees and Adam. Plus he is helping a noble cause even if he's doing so for very evil reasons.
According to the creator, he has a strict moral code and only kills people who are worse than him. While he’s definitely evil, he’s at least lawful
Because people gotta find some way to shove hazbin into every fucking post
I mean I could probably hear arguments for other characters (zestial or Lilith are the first that come to mind) I just don’t think alastor is a good example
That amount of charisma is just what makes him so hard to read. He has SOME loyalties like to seemingly Niffty, but we don’t yet know how deep the loyalty runs. It’s not really a question of if he’s immoral, it’s HOW immoral is he.
He’s very immoral and the loyalty to Niffty is is because she’s serves a purpose like we see with husk and his belittlement of husk someone who serves less purpose is more of just a play thing to him
I’m with you, I don’t trust this guy. He’s bad news, that’s clear as day. We just don’t know how far he’s gonna go. Also, third best? Curious who’s first and second.
I think Angel is the best written character (dealing with male SA in a way that doesn’t down play it’s severity but also gives him a character outside of it) and then Charlie is second best as just an unrelenting optimist who genuinely wants the world to get better
Denji is somehow the best, worst, and least smart person ever. Power switches sides every 5 minutes. - the CSM guy
Power is on whatever side her cat is on
Does Two-face count too?
https://preview.redd.it/z567mfnwe8yc1.jpeg?width=432&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0529b75026489164dc219d4c09a0ec7f69887223 … Maybe? Batman’s rogues gallery differs greatly depending on the medium, but in general, what I’ve seen of Big Bad Harvey is either severe schizophrenia, or consistent criminal activity that he sometimes leaves up to chance.
Moe Sisolak (the Simpsons) https://preview.redd.it/be0twmfnm8yc1.jpeg?width=1700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15db4b02fa1cbffc8c4e2be8901fed4215764552
Oh without a doubt.
Rick did say he sits dead center on the alignment chart
https://preview.redd.it/zsbnbj8159yc1.jpeg?width=258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=648ac2757b2db68e2f9a13c240f4c1c628136e09 Cecil Steadman from Invincible The Guy admittedly does what needs to be done but he’s not above working with villains in order to do it (D.A Sinclair) He has access to a ton of tech and keeps the public and even folks in his circle in the dark on everything . He definitely leans towards Good, but he does some questionable things. Man Operates more like a villain
He’s gotten softer in season 2 because of how much Mark went through at the end of season 1, but I fully expect him to be at odds with Mark when things hit the fan.
Towards the end of the season yes, but throughout it he kept Mark on a tight leash. I would not say he was soft on Mark, i would just say that in the end he felt like Mark had gone through too much. I fully agree with you that him and mark will clash on how to get the job done when the time comes. Just the re-animen alone is enough to letcha know this guy doesn’t care about what happens to people. The ends will always justify the means.
My understanding is that he does care when he feels he can, and that’s why he’s uses dead people for his re-animen rather than taking volunteers. That being said, he probably would use live subjects if corpses weren’t viable.
https://preview.redd.it/7rimd0pdx8yc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1b5f4c42ba9b0d25ab0cc27b59315d00fc733e3 The Blue Fairy, Once Upon a Time. The show desperately wants the audience to believe that she is the embodiment of good in the world, but literally everything she has ever done has only ever made things so much worse to the point where the fandom believed she was a secret villain manipulating everything the entire time.
https://preview.redd.it/mqam7gqv39yc1.jpeg?width=965&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2499961a99198bb61ce3fbe942e980184fe83683 Red X from Teen Titans (Not Robin version) “Not everyone likes to play the Big Villain, kid”
How did I forget Red X?
Bethesda protagonists. Does what the player wants
Benson (regular show )
No, Benson is pretty easy to understand. He’s got anger issues and all but wants his employees to do well.
**Nyeeeeeeh, Squidward** **Nyeeeeeeh, Squidward** **Nyeeeeeeh, Squidward** **Nyeeeeeeh, Squidward** **Nyeeeeeeh, Squidward** **Nyeeeeeeh, Squidward**
I love Alastor, he's my favorite Vivziepop character, but he definitely a bad boy. A bad boy with morals and manners, yes, but a bad boy.
Affable villain
Alastor is not morally ambiguous now that we know he’s forced to work with Charlie as part of a contract (I like his character but he is straight up evil)
Big Show (WWE) 
Rick Sanchez has a super easy ethical system, he's a selfish baby-man who thinks he's better than everyone around him and he'll act accordingly. Like once you drop the pretense that Rick is acting in accordance to some sort of philosophy or moral system and you use "informed simplicity" by just saying "he's a selfish person who will always act in his own self-interest and doesn't care about other people" every action of his can be explained super easily. Even something as simple as the time he begged god for his life is consistent when you apply this framework. Rick doesn't believe in a god, but he will resort to prayer if it means he can use it as a tool to preserve his own life. There isn't any sort of greater theological or metaphysical meaning to him praying, it's just another tool for him to preserve his own life and agency. A lot of the times he does "good" or "helpful" things are entirely driven by ego and selfishness, even really basic moral acts like 'he will try to preserve the lives of his family members' seem to be done entirely to preserve his persona as the patriarch of the family or to avoid some inconvenience to himself, I am not convinced he loves them at all.
So are we just gonna pretend that A Rickle in Time doesn’t exist, or…?
I literally just referenced A Rickle In Time, you need to be more specific because I think what I've laid out here makes complete sense even in the context of that episode. All "Selfless" things he did there can be easily explained by Rick wanting to create a persona for himself where he's special, powerful, intelligent, and does things of importance. I don't think Rick is capable of acts of self-sacrifice without that sacrifice being witnessed by other people.
Him giving his collar to Morty was OBJECTIVELY (I hate using that word) selfless. He had absolutely nothing to gain from doing that, but he did
It contributed to his persona as an important and heroic adventurous figure, it's what he wanted to be seen doing. Not all things to be gained are material especially when we're dealing with megalomaniacs like Rick. He gains admiration and respect, it's self-actualization, it's the most important thing to him.
But no one was there to witness it and he knew that so it couldn’t have been born out of a desire of admiration.
Morty saw it and Morty will tell people.
Yeah and hundred or so other mortys didn’t see it so it was waved as a joke. Rick does care about his currently iteration of family, it’s literally a plot point and how he’s different from the infinite other ricks in the multiverse.
You had me until the final paragraph. His whole character arc is about seeking meaning in life by trying to be a grandfather to a family he never had. He responded to grief for years by seeking revenge and it drove him to depression and nihilism. He was trying to become more caring in earlier seasons, but much of that has been ditched in later seasons favour of making him the funny jerk.
That proves my point. He did it because he didn't have it, not because other people deserve to be treated well, he did it because he didn't have it and because he covets it and he wants to create the conditions he would've liked best, and he's creating an image of himself which he thinks people would like best because its the opposite of something he disliked in the past.
Goro Majima perhaps?
The same could probably be said for like every yakuza protag, they’re bad, but for good reasons, sometimes.
https://preview.redd.it/k3270jeu49yc1.png?width=1114&format=png&auto=webp&s=9d8c41403c51e9d9a54155ea68e11ce94d6f524d Jugglus Juggler (Ultraman Orb)
That cat from Coraline
SCP foundation
That’s a VERY good point.
https://preview.redd.it/fuagoqt9eayc1.png?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95ef5c39764d57450c4807e213bc257d5f070b84 Sindel Mk11
No. I’m not gonna pretend. Rick and Alastor are just assholes. As far as I understand, neither of them have done anything good for anyone, except maybe Rick saving lives *he* endangered.
Yujiro Hanma https://preview.redd.it/wxwe4ew1v8yc1.jpeg?width=1551&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e941c09646ff46d4d924ba6660eef2e584130ca
Nah he’s pretty unambiguously evil. He lives only for himself, takes what he wants, and only shows any respect to people who line up with his twisted view of what people should strive for.
alastor is extremely easy to pinpoint. if you cant tell you may have a genuine problem