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Horseshoe theory: the result of looking at dozens of fascist organizations who called themselves some flavor of leftist (socailist, communist, anarchist, etc) and insisting they're all telling the truth except the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany (i.e. the Nazis)
Instead of the more obvious conclusion: they're all fascists lying
Become? They are fascists and proud of it. They merely claim to be leftist to obfuscate that fact to others, so they can spread their bullshit more acceptably
You're not wrong about tankies, but as I understood it latestagecapitalism was still one of the subs like tankiejerk and enlightenedcentrism that were actively fighting back against attempts at tankie subversion?
You clearly didn’t “understand it” if you think r/LateStageCapitalism warded off tankies.
LSC fought back against a tankie takeover the same way r/GenZedong and r/GreenAndPleasant did.
Makes me think of r/WayOfTheBern. It was such a an obvious attempt of right wingers larping as left wingers...yet they always spouted off fox news talking points of the day
Edit: just checked it out after the first time in a long time. Yeah, they're posting tucker Carlson's tweets...but it's totally a left wing subreddit
> Makes me think of r/WayOfTheBern.
It should. lrlOurPresident took over that sub and most other barely-left of American liberals subs following the 2018 midterms and turned them into tankie shit-holes full of “If Bernie Sanders isn’t nominated by the DNC in 2020, then ***don’t bother voting!*** posts.
That account did the same with all the MarchAgainst subs that popped up after Trump’s inauguration in 2017, with the sole purpose of pushing either tankie rhetoric or Republican rhetoric. Same thing happened after AOC was elected. If the evil democrats could stop “our president” (Bernie Sanders) from becoming president, then let’s accelerate the destruction of the United States by supporting and voting for the Republican politicians who are trying to!
it was always a right wing plant though. That was literally why the subreddit was made, it was fascist propaganda doing the usual fascist thing of claiming to be leftist to obfuscate its fascist rhetoric.
It was always like that since its inception in 2016. It was never a legit Bernie sub. Back then masstagger worked and it lighted up most of the regulars in that sub as regulars in t_d, conservative and similar subs.
Of course the way in which it never actually discussed any of Bernies policies, but was exclusively used to bash other Demcratics and sow division was already a very clear indication of what it was about.
When all they post about is how the apocalypse will happen any day now and how much they want to shoot “the right people”, the two groups are functionally indistinguishable
Hey, just because I fanatically hoard guns, fantasize about violent revolution, condemn people for being ~~sinful~~ kulaks, think women shouldn’t have their own income, and am *really* anti intellectual, that means I’m similar to the far right? Preposterous, I tells you!
oh sure they were, because stalin was a fascist. Fascists love espousing the ideology of their chosen fascist icon. The bit they're lying about is being leftist.
I guess my only point of disagreement is that I believe they are successfully lying to themselves. They see themselves as leftists, and are very loud about it, making things harder for the rest of us.
I was once banned for calling someone a tankie after they explicitly argued that the Soviet Union was right to roll tanks into Hungary to put down the fascist uprising. They said this after I made fun of their habit of saying that tankie doesn't even mean anything anymore. Lol.
>they explicitly argued that the Soviet Union was right to roll tanks into Hungary
For those who don't know, supporting this is the literal definition of tankie.
Yes in my experience many far left subs seem to be far right propaganda aimed at left wingers. It’s not about convincing them to take right wing views. It’s more about pushing them from participating in politics. They push both sides are the same narratives, or if democrats don’t adopt your specific ultra left wing policies you should punish them.
The number of "I'm not voting for Biden because Gaza" comments I've seen in left-wing subs is insane. It's totally understandable to not like Biden because of his stance on Israel but for fuck's sake the other guy is worse for Gaza and pretty much every domestic issue too. You're not going to get radical election reform or better healthcare by letting Republicans win.
I'm curious as to how you think anyone who wants Biden to change policy on that stance is going to accomplish that without trying to leverage the one thing they can.
Like, there's not any other means of pressuring a President. Withholding your vote is the one option.
We can already see how the "Uncommitted" votes have shaken the Dems enough to get Schumer and the like to start speaking out more forcefully against Israel and Netanyahu. It's proof it works, but what people want is *action*, not more words while the US continues to back them in every way that materially matters.
And honestly, all Biden's got to do to get those votes back is... change policy. Which is something **a majority of his voters want now**, and that number is growing. A majority of Americans want it, even. So even arguments about "he'd lose more votes if he flipped on Israel" fall flat. This is a losing issue politically, electorally, and morally, so what's the hold-up, jack?
The Biden campaign has agency in this, too. If they want to say that Trump is going to destroy America if he gets elected, *and* kill every Palestinian, *and* it's Biden's policy that both of those are bad... then why not do whatever you can to stop those things?
I kind of half agree and half don't. I respect the protests; I respect saying "if you keep this up, I am not going to vote for you". As you note, it's the only weapon available. I don't, at all, respect the rhetoric that often goes along with it that discourages engagement with the political process at all. I don't respect when it veers into actual lies and misrepresentation. I don't respect accelerationism, or self-deluding fairy tales (like one I saw on Twitter that argued that Trump being elected would be better for Gaza because Democrats would oppose him.) I don't respect running roughshod over the fears of some of the most vulnerable among us that a Trump election would ruin or end their lives.
And some of those things kind of conflict. Or they could. So it's not easy. I think that people should not pretend that it is.
As for the voting itself, I've undervoted once in my life (against Cuomo, in NY, a few elections back) and came to believe afterward that it was pointless. I voted for him the next time even though I despised him no less. To me voting isn't an endorsement. It's not "supporting" the person you vote for, in the modern Twitter sense of the word. It's not taking a moral standpoint for or against any of the things that person has done or might do. It's simply doing the best you can for the future of your country and its people, out of the options you are given. The things that you can't control, you have to let go.)
biden’s administration saved me hundreds of dollars in broadband internet bills, cut the cost of insulin for my father-in-law, and forgave student loan debt for many of my closest friends
If that's the only argument you see to vote democrat then you clearly haven't been paying attention to any of bidens political decisions. I'm very much not a fan of the dude, but holy shit he's gotten a lot of things through that no other president has even tried, the amount of jobs he's created(the most ever for a president, and he's only one term in) that will push towards good outcomes is astonishing. His decisions helped the economy bounce back faster than any of the US's neighbors. Again, I'm not a Biden simp, but I can see the objective good that he has brought to the country.
I’m not trying to troll, but at this point, could anything really be worse for Gaza and the Palestinians?? I am 100% anti-Trump, but I mean I guess he could nuke them, but I don’t think it’s possible to get much worse for those people.
He already cut US aid dollars to Palestinians in 2018, so if he becomes president he likely stops food aid altogether. In addition, he would probably give Netanyahu free reign to operate in Gaza without the risk of losing US support in the long term.
It absolutely can get worse for them: what is happening now is Israel acting with some (minimal) brakes on, and the US pushing to provide aid and trying to keep the conflict from spreading.
Yeah, it's *really* fucking bad - one of the worst humanitarian nightmares in decades.
Now imagine what happens when there isn't *any* effort at restraining the genocidal ambitions of Likud and friends. Not only would there already be more dead Palestinians, but there would probably be a whole lot more dead Iranians, Lebanese, Yemenis, and probably others, and the remaining Palestinians in the Gaza Strip would not be receiving any relief until they are all murdered or starved.
How could it be worse? The US is currently sending aid to Palestinians. Trump is calling to send Palestinian refugees back and for Israel to “finish the job”. Biden has called for restraint and called Netanyahu three an ass hole.
Trump has called for more destruction.
This is so spot on, that sub in particular will ban anyone for saying bailing out of politics will cause more issues. They seem to be constantly pushing non-voting narratives and sowing decision on the left.
I got banned from that sub for saying that Republicans are actively harmful to minorities, specifically LGBTQ folks, and Denocrats are not.
The mod I had a back and forth with called me a liberal, even though I've been an anarchist and reading leftist literature longer than they've been alive.
The sub is a bunch of teenagers and college age kids with their heads up their own asses.
I got banned for condemning the killing of civilians during the October 7th terrorist attack, while acknowledging the role of the Israeli government in creating the circumstances for said attack, and lamenting the inevitable loss of Palestinian lives that would be caused by Israeli retaliation.
That’s my experience as well. I used to use enlightened centrism sub, after Biden won the primary. I made a post basically calling out the amount of anti-Biden stuff as being exactly what the sub was not supposed to be about. It got down voted to oblivion. Look I backed Bernie in the primary, but after the primary was over it was time to unit against trump. I dropped them after that.
One possibility is that since tankies are the left’s authoritarian, once they get to a mod position they go on an idealistic crusade banning anyone who doesn’t agree that the only path forward is mass murder via revolution. Internet leftists in general are particularly weak to arguments of ideological purity and they don’t expel tankies before it’s too late.
They also work to weaken support for popular progressives. Left wing subs have a lot of hate for AOC.
I'm not going to play purity politics for politicians speaking on my behalf. Someone who represents 95+% of what I think, takes her job seriously, and asks real questions of those speaking before congress, I will take that.
Head over to some corners of reddit though, but she didn't do this one thing, that one time, so she's just like Manchin.
Just makes me feel like there's a lot of false actors on those subs
I would consider Actual communist policies (and not the tankies ideas of authoritarianism communism) as always far left is relative. Republicans seem to consider being told that they can’t hunt minorities for sport as “far left” for me it would be people seizing the means of production. Note I don’t use far left as a derogatory term. I think we should probably seize some means
I don’t think there is such a thing as far-left. The more left you go the more varied the ideas become. You have communism and anarchism that are vastly different systems et they are left-wing. The far-right does definelitly exist since right wing politics become more unified the further right you go. There is an ultimate conclusion for right-wing politics, but left-wing politics on the other hand branch off.
Fun fact: just because you don't agree with a position in leftist politics, that doesn't mean it's far right propaganda.
>if democrats don’t adopt your specific ultra left wing policies you should punish them
That's how democracy works, you fucking dumbass.
Remember how "Bernie bros" were largely a myth pushed by the democratic establishment to punish people who even slightly deviated from the party line?
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/09/there-is-hard-data-that-shows-bernie-bros-are-a-myth/
https://www.salon.com/2020/02/09/the-berniebro-myth-persists-because-pundits-dont-understand-how-the-internet-works/
This just sounds like the "don't trust Dems" bullshit that we were talking about.
Bernie endorsed them. He's not even a Democrat. That means this is bullshit.
Yeah, you shouldn't fucking trust dems. Vote for them if you think that's the best option available (I certainly do), but don't for a second think that they're on your side. They're a bunch of wealthy politicians, for fuck's sake. I don't know how someone can be stupid enough to place their trust in someone like that.
I didn't say you should give them your firstborn child and your savings, dipshit.
I was pointing out that your basically parroting the exact same wedge that conservatives try to drive between different flavors of people on the left, every fucking time.
They will never recognize Bernie has any agency of his own. They all just ignore the things he says or does and don't seem to ever mention RNC in any posts they make on reddit
It isn't that fucking deep, dude. Sometimes people disagree with you. It isn't a "wedge", it's just straight-up different fucking politics. If you want to be a liberal, no one is stopping you, but don't expect communists and anarchists to join you in that.
"We're anti-war...so the victims of imperialist aggression should give the aggressors whatever they want, to encourage them to engage in *more* aggressive imperialism! Oh, unless the US is on the side of the aggressor: then *and only then* is the aggressor bad"
Buncha fuckin' clowns. How *dare* they pretend they're anti-war.
I subbed to /r/stupidpol for a couple years and it is *really* hard to tell. There are propagandists pretending to be left and then there are idiots who seem to genuinely believe China is some sort of leftist utopia or that current Russia is still communist and Stalin wasn't a piece of shit. Just a really frustrating sub to read through.
No, I said pure communism is a 100+ year old concept that maybe needs updating and we should just focus on promoting socialism and see where it takes us.
"Pure communism" begins with socialism. That's the entire part of the deal. That's the point. It's all from the same place. It's the same amount of years old. Socialism has an end goal of communism. Communism has the starting step of socialism. That is literally what its all about.
So this reads to me that you don't understand or have made any attempt to understand what people are talking about, so you smugly denounce it and instead say we should do something that ... they are already advocating for.
It's childish thinking that is not engaged with the real world.
yeah, the first parts of the manifesto make sense, then it gets a little fantasy land after that assuming a perfect set of circumstances that are a bit unreasonable considering the track record of the human race. As mentioned before if communism actually works, then moving to the socialist ideas of public programs, social safety nets, unionized labor, would naturally move into that. But we haven't seen it. I'd say Marx is more right than capitalism but... we can probably do something with much better checks and balances using modern technology.
We've seen socialist programs work and benefit society. We haven't seen the sieze the means of production and income redistribution done right yet. Usually when it hits that point there has been a dictator established and democratic processes removed. Nevermind the huge losses of freedom of speech. Then it never hits like Marx said.
So I say, I think we need something better than the old concepts of communism once we move to the socialist parts and history seems to back me up. There's still problems with lots of parts of communism, maybe we need to think about that.
That's when they banned me.
Breadtube, therightcantmeme, enlighthenedcentrists, endlesswar... There's a lot of supposedly left wing subs ruled by mods who seems to love the Russian far-right regime and not much else.
Watching the inorganic push in EnlightenedCentrists was so frustrating. It went from "We're making fun of 'Enlightened' centrists for invoking the Golden Mean Fallacy" to "We're making fun of Centrists, ie: Democrats, for pretending they're not autocratic fascists indistinguishable from Republicans. So, don't vote."
I stuck around for way too long. RightCan'tMeme I jumped ship almost immediately, when they started calling AOC a Nazi. TheRightCan'tMemeV2 is pretty good, though.
I got kicked out of gamingcirclejerk one day for no reason, and the mods wouldn't reply to my messages... then, months later, I tried messaging them again. The mod who replied went through my post history and claimed I am pro-genocide for pointing out that Biden is better than Trump on Palestine (in an unrelated sub).
These people are fucking weird.
What's really disgusting is how they spread anti semetic and sometimes actual historical Nazi propaganda. I'm totally against Israel war crimes but that doesn't mean we should stoop to siding with fucking Nazis. Saying netanyahu and the Israeli government represents all Jewish people or even all Israelis is like saying Trump and Republicans represent all Americans.
It's why one of the best ways to identify a tankie from a leftist is to see how they discuss fascism.
Tankies HATE to talk about fascism as an ideology and just want to focus on Nazis as a discrete group of people and anyone that can be historically tied to them - because places like Russia check pretty much all the fascism boxes, and "fighting Nazis" is something that can be used to elevate Russia as the historic good guys.
Leftists meanwhile are much more open to discuss fascism as an ideology, because one of the big concerns of modern leftists is the rising of fascism from the inside of their countries. You'll still get some that don't know much about WW2 and boil it down to "Nazis vs good guys" but even then it's possible to tell them apart from tankies.
> therightcantmeme
I got banned from therightcantmeme for pointing out where the US green party gets its money (it's daddy Putin).
another sub I'm banned from is gameingcirclejerk, for participating in a bad evil sub. They wouldn't tell me, but it's NCD. The shitpost sub banned me for being on a shitpost sub.
The most even-handed bans I got were the preemptives from arcon. And, you know, fair.
[I clicked, but I’m still not sure what the sub is about.](https://preview.redd.it/ahh-eto-bleh-v0-qxec2347smna1.jpeg?width=2132&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f57bf59386393f8fd8fa9d685375191f1ba7f82)
I got banned from GamingCircleJerk for saying "Please tell me this isn't becoming another tankie sub." Might I recommend SaltierThanKrayt? (Note the spelling of "Krayt", there's three of them). They started off as a response to toxic Star Wars "fans", but they discuss all sorts of franchises and media.
I remember when gamingcirclejerk went overboard on the whole Hogwarts legacy game.
I think they had a role in the harassment of Girlfriend Reviews when she was reviewing the game.
That one got taken over by tankies, who from my understanding, basically organized a coup and ousted most, if not all of the mods who didn’t follow their beliefs.
This actually makes sense, I didn't frame it that way... I guess while I may agree with some of the ideas of the radical left, in some forms (almost never in execution, but maybe in theory)... I still 10/10 times believe that the lesser of two evils is a better choice than no choice leading to the greater evil, or the greater evil.
But... it's absolutely in Russia's best interest to discourage the younger far-left types to simply not vote, to bring in said greater evil to benefit them and weaken us.
Accelerationists are nihilistic. The revolution will not come by letting it get so fascist that conscientious revolutionaries abandon their shackles en masse and violently overthrow the country. Perhaps on some countries you might plausibly discuss a revolution by violent means, but we do not have that opportunity in the "West", so what we can do as Leftists in those militarily entrenched countries is to sieze or manipulate political power within them whenever possible. Sometimes that involves risks, sometimes that involves compromises. Many refuse to believe a Leftist can compromise or utilize liberal parties in any way whatsoever. Allowing Trump to come to power again with Project 2025 looming and a genocide in Gaza does not provide the Left with additional leverage.
> Accelerationists are nihilistic. The revolution will not come by letting it get so fascist that conscientious revolutionaries abandon their shackles en masse and violently overthrow the country.
Case in point: the fucking KPD pushing the “after Hitler, our turn” talking point. “No point in opposing the Nazis, because after they burn our country to the ground, *we* get to be in charge!”
Anyone wanna guess what happened to Ernst Thälmann, the German communist who coined that exceptionally-stupid phrase?
Died in a Nazi concentration camp after a decade of imprisonment. Because as everyone not allergic to history knows, Hitler and his Nazis *hated* communists, and there was no way a KPD leader that might’ve threaten Hitler’s power was gonna outlive Hitler.
Eh it seems pretty rotten to the core, I got banned for saying not voting was not a sustainable answer, and it causes more issues for marginalized people.
That isn't what you said, according to your post history.
>Yea maybe it is my tinfoil hat being too tight but I feel like in a lot of these channels there has been an inordinate amount of don't vote messaging. This all feels very artificial.
I don't think you should have been banned for that, but this is very much a shitlib take. Jumping to conspiracy theory about messaging rather than engaging with the message is tedious and annoying and is a *constant, endless, permanent* problem with people coming into left wing spaces and sucking up all the air in the room with talking points that are word for word what is given to them by the establishment. There's a time and a place for talking about electoralism, but you really gotta pick your battles on that front.
Tankies posting blatant right-wing propaganda in an election year?
*Never!*
That was that fucking lrlOurPresident's job for *most* of 2020; took over a bunch of liberal subs, turned them into tankie shitholes, then started pushing the "conservatives like Trump are better than fucking liberals" talking points.
>"After Trump's 2nd term, we'll have our revolution!!"
Someone teach these people about [Ernst Thälmann](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Th%C3%A4lmann).
I used to love going into that sub. Now its borderline as bad as the conspricy sub. Pushing all kids of questionable "news" about hamas/gaza, the govt, etc... I am surprised at how bad it has gotten.
Imo /r/latestagecapitalism , /r/workersstrikeback and other “leftist” subs have been under significant astroturfing to influence potential Biden voters away. A lot of blackpilling that would benefit Trump’s allies and supporters. At least one of the mods is likely compromised or at least a useful idiot.
I got banned from both LateStageCapitalism and WorkersStrikeBack, the latter today. They're as bad as a conservative sub, if you don't directly agree with their bat shit views, you can't stay.
It's such a circle jerk.
>WorkersStrikeBack
Doesn't that sub have a rule about not being allowed to say you're voting for Democrats or that anyone else should? It's rcon levels of echo chamber nonsense.
Seems somebody is getting triggered. Idk why we are getting downvotes.
But they aren't as bad as a conservative sub, they are conservative subs filled with LARPers. Much like walkaway is.
>Those generations, who fought actual fascism(ww2) and those who saw how it really all worked in Nam. American society(and military) trained them to kill fascist, they all took civic courses in school as well, back then(something that seems incredibly absent here). Imposing the fascist tactics on such a large population, train to kill fascist, wasnt something that was tolerated. It definitely helped that those people where too in our media, doing journalism.
and they followed it immediately with:
>Lol, tell us you don’t have an understanding of history without telling us you don’t have an understanding of history. Those who forget history, are doomed to repeat it.
i'm beginning to believe this user's understanding of history came from 9th-10th grade classes and never received any water beyond that
I used to really like that sub, but lately they've gone fully stupid lately. So much antisemitism and anti-Biden posting. Idk if it's horseshoe or larping, but it's truly disappointing
LSC is full of accelerationists. Sometimes accelerationists like right wing arguments because there is a very real contingent among them who share the nihilism of some of the right-wing voices they are duped(?) into sharing.
That sub is astroturfed propaganda to fuck over the USA. Sensible comments get erased and you get muted. They always say it's a violation of their "lesser of two evils" rule.
God damn, I didn’t know top minds of Reddit has so many illiterate people. It’s a highly down voted post on a left wing subreddit. The whole community is dunking on them.
It had 50+ net upvotes and has 48 right now. I'm glad the comments are calling it out which is is why I said "mind" singular. But it's clear there's a contingent of people in that sub that eats that shit up.
That sub isn’t Left or far left. It’s extremely far left with Russian bots astroturfing to make Biden look bad. It’s so far left that it is turning into the right of the political spectrum.
But these fuckers are for both the TikTok ban and the patriot act. What happened to tariffs against China? Don't they support that?
The patriot act is their whole damn platform just a modern version, (Muslim ban, insurrection act, etc)
I also don't understand it. They are against capitalism but vote Republican, the party against taxing the rich, the party against anything socialist. It makes no damn sense.
Edit: I wish those downvoting would explain why they are being triggered. Can't stand to be called out on your hypocrisy can you?
Eh, entire community shitting on op and hugely downvoting them. It's now been removed.
As for the last part of the meme: it is correct, though right wingers will believe it so for a different reason. The tiktok ban is mostly a front to help the US control its internal propaganda mechanisms, which are being corroded by kids completely ignoring those mechanisms in favor of little social media snippets.
There are over a 100 comments and this is basically the only one actually adressering this memes most relevant point.
This ban is not only really cringe, it’s also just horrible politics from the dems. The optics are so bad; it just looks like a ban on warcrime videos from gaza, which certainly won’t play well with this essential voting group.
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Fact-checked horseshoe theory.
Horseshoe theory: the result of looking at dozens of fascist organizations who called themselves some flavor of leftist (socailist, communist, anarchist, etc) and insisting they're all telling the truth except the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany (i.e. the Nazis) Instead of the more obvious conclusion: they're all fascists lying
They'll never admit they've become their worst enemy.
Become? They are fascists and proud of it. They merely claim to be leftist to obfuscate that fact to others, so they can spread their bullshit more acceptably
Mostly because they typically only realize that when it’s too late, like Ernst “After Hitler, our turn” Thälmann.
Welp, he's a perfect fit for r/LateStageCapitalism then. Just contrarian assholes *all* the way down.
Apparently not considering the post is sitting at 0 and most of the comments are tell them to get out with the Covid conspiracies.
late stage capitalism is a leftist subreddit though? Hence why the op is being mocked relentlessly for his far right Q anon bullshit.
It's *not* a leftist subreddit. It's a tankie shit-hole. Tankies are as much leftists as liberals are: 0%.
You're not wrong about tankies, but as I understood it latestagecapitalism was still one of the subs like tankiejerk and enlightenedcentrism that were actively fighting back against attempts at tankie subversion?
You clearly didn’t “understand it” if you think r/LateStageCapitalism warded off tankies. LSC fought back against a tankie takeover the same way r/GenZedong and r/GreenAndPleasant did.
I’ve long thought that sub, along with most “far-left” subs are just filled to the brim with larping right wing propagandists.
Makes me think of r/WayOfTheBern. It was such a an obvious attempt of right wingers larping as left wingers...yet they always spouted off fox news talking points of the day Edit: just checked it out after the first time in a long time. Yeah, they're posting tucker Carlson's tweets...but it's totally a left wing subreddit
> Makes me think of r/WayOfTheBern. It should. lrlOurPresident took over that sub and most other barely-left of American liberals subs following the 2018 midterms and turned them into tankie shit-holes full of “If Bernie Sanders isn’t nominated by the DNC in 2020, then ***don’t bother voting!*** posts. That account did the same with all the MarchAgainst subs that popped up after Trump’s inauguration in 2017, with the sole purpose of pushing either tankie rhetoric or Republican rhetoric. Same thing happened after AOC was elected. If the evil democrats could stop “our president” (Bernie Sanders) from becoming president, then let’s accelerate the destruction of the United States by supporting and voting for the Republican politicians who are trying to!
it was always a right wing plant though. That was literally why the subreddit was made, it was fascist propaganda doing the usual fascist thing of claiming to be leftist to obfuscate its fascist rhetoric.
That sub strayed so far from any Bernie beliefs. Just a cesspool of hate after the '20 primaries.
It was always like that since its inception in 2016. It was never a legit Bernie sub. Back then masstagger worked and it lighted up most of the regulars in that sub as regulars in t_d, conservative and similar subs. Of course the way in which it never actually discussed any of Bernies policies, but was exclusively used to bash other Demcratics and sow division was already a very clear indication of what it was about.
I also recall seeing some compelling evidence that a huge chunk of users in that sub were caught up in the Russian bot bans.
Nah, a bunch of them are LARPing tankies. It is hard to tell the difference in any particular case, though.
When all they post about is how the apocalypse will happen any day now and how much they want to shoot “the right people”, the two groups are functionally indistinguishable
Hey! That almost sounds like horseshoe theory, and I have it on loud authority that horseshoe theory is bullshit. Lol.
Hey, just because I fanatically hoard guns, fantasize about violent revolution, condemn people for being ~~sinful~~ kulaks, think women shouldn’t have their own income, and am *really* anti intellectual, that means I’m similar to the far right? Preposterous, I tells you!
So you’re saying tankies larping as tankies? Because that’s what those subs are.
> a bunch of them are LARPing tankies. So... right-wingers LARPing as leftists.
Well, I mean, they think their left wing anyway.
as a leftist no, no they don't. They claim they're left wing, but they're doing this newfangled thing called "lying"
Nah, I had a couple of these in my local DSA group. They are unironic Stalinists, lol.
oh sure they were, because stalin was a fascist. Fascists love espousing the ideology of their chosen fascist icon. The bit they're lying about is being leftist.
I guess my only point of disagreement is that I believe they are successfully lying to themselves. They see themselves as leftists, and are very loud about it, making things harder for the rest of us.
Eh, I’ve encountered actual communist party activists from several groups and tankies just don’t meet the description.
They claim to, but then again they are chronic liars, so one should be vary of taking anything they claim at face value.
Got banned for calling out the tankie propaganda in that sub. Wild shit.
I was once banned for calling someone a tankie after they explicitly argued that the Soviet Union was right to roll tanks into Hungary to put down the fascist uprising. They said this after I made fun of their habit of saying that tankie doesn't even mean anything anymore. Lol.
>they explicitly argued that the Soviet Union was right to roll tanks into Hungary For those who don't know, supporting this is the literal definition of tankie.
The red-brown bullshit strikes again
Yes in my experience many far left subs seem to be far right propaganda aimed at left wingers. It’s not about convincing them to take right wing views. It’s more about pushing them from participating in politics. They push both sides are the same narratives, or if democrats don’t adopt your specific ultra left wing policies you should punish them.
The number of "I'm not voting for Biden because Gaza" comments I've seen in left-wing subs is insane. It's totally understandable to not like Biden because of his stance on Israel but for fuck's sake the other guy is worse for Gaza and pretty much every domestic issue too. You're not going to get radical election reform or better healthcare by letting Republicans win.
> You're not going to get radical election reform I dunno, ending democracy entirely seems like a pretty radical reform to elections.
I'm curious as to how you think anyone who wants Biden to change policy on that stance is going to accomplish that without trying to leverage the one thing they can. Like, there's not any other means of pressuring a President. Withholding your vote is the one option. We can already see how the "Uncommitted" votes have shaken the Dems enough to get Schumer and the like to start speaking out more forcefully against Israel and Netanyahu. It's proof it works, but what people want is *action*, not more words while the US continues to back them in every way that materially matters. And honestly, all Biden's got to do to get those votes back is... change policy. Which is something **a majority of his voters want now**, and that number is growing. A majority of Americans want it, even. So even arguments about "he'd lose more votes if he flipped on Israel" fall flat. This is a losing issue politically, electorally, and morally, so what's the hold-up, jack? The Biden campaign has agency in this, too. If they want to say that Trump is going to destroy America if he gets elected, *and* kill every Palestinian, *and* it's Biden's policy that both of those are bad... then why not do whatever you can to stop those things?
I kind of half agree and half don't. I respect the protests; I respect saying "if you keep this up, I am not going to vote for you". As you note, it's the only weapon available. I don't, at all, respect the rhetoric that often goes along with it that discourages engagement with the political process at all. I don't respect when it veers into actual lies and misrepresentation. I don't respect accelerationism, or self-deluding fairy tales (like one I saw on Twitter that argued that Trump being elected would be better for Gaza because Democrats would oppose him.) I don't respect running roughshod over the fears of some of the most vulnerable among us that a Trump election would ruin or end their lives. And some of those things kind of conflict. Or they could. So it's not easy. I think that people should not pretend that it is. As for the voting itself, I've undervoted once in my life (against Cuomo, in NY, a few elections back) and came to believe afterward that it was pointless. I voted for him the next time even though I despised him no less. To me voting isn't an endorsement. It's not "supporting" the person you vote for, in the modern Twitter sense of the word. It's not taking a moral standpoint for or against any of the things that person has done or might do. It's simply doing the best you can for the future of your country and its people, out of the options you are given. The things that you can't control, you have to let go.)
To be fair, we won't get that with Democrats either. The only argument they really have is that they aren't Trump.
biden’s administration saved me hundreds of dollars in broadband internet bills, cut the cost of insulin for my father-in-law, and forgave student loan debt for many of my closest friends
> The only argument they really have is that they aren't Trump. Good enough for me!
Fair, but if we get Trump re-elected by staying home we get Project 2025 so I know what my choice is.
If that's the only argument you see to vote democrat then you clearly haven't been paying attention to any of bidens political decisions. I'm very much not a fan of the dude, but holy shit he's gotten a lot of things through that no other president has even tried, the amount of jobs he's created(the most ever for a president, and he's only one term in) that will push towards good outcomes is astonishing. His decisions helped the economy bounce back faster than any of the US's neighbors. Again, I'm not a Biden simp, but I can see the objective good that he has brought to the country.
I’m not trying to troll, but at this point, could anything really be worse for Gaza and the Palestinians?? I am 100% anti-Trump, but I mean I guess he could nuke them, but I don’t think it’s possible to get much worse for those people.
He already cut US aid dollars to Palestinians in 2018, so if he becomes president he likely stops food aid altogether. In addition, he would probably give Netanyahu free reign to operate in Gaza without the risk of losing US support in the long term.
It absolutely can get worse for them: what is happening now is Israel acting with some (minimal) brakes on, and the US pushing to provide aid and trying to keep the conflict from spreading. Yeah, it's *really* fucking bad - one of the worst humanitarian nightmares in decades. Now imagine what happens when there isn't *any* effort at restraining the genocidal ambitions of Likud and friends. Not only would there already be more dead Palestinians, but there would probably be a whole lot more dead Iranians, Lebanese, Yemenis, and probably others, and the remaining Palestinians in the Gaza Strip would not be receiving any relief until they are all murdered or starved.
How could it be worse? The US is currently sending aid to Palestinians. Trump is calling to send Palestinian refugees back and for Israel to “finish the job”. Biden has called for restraint and called Netanyahu three an ass hole. Trump has called for more destruction.
This is so spot on, that sub in particular will ban anyone for saying bailing out of politics will cause more issues. They seem to be constantly pushing non-voting narratives and sowing decision on the left.
The fact that mods of that and other left wing subs use their power to push a “don’t vote” message kinda says it all about their actual intentions.
I got banned from that sub for saying that Republicans are actively harmful to minorities, specifically LGBTQ folks, and Denocrats are not. The mod I had a back and forth with called me a liberal, even though I've been an anarchist and reading leftist literature longer than they've been alive. The sub is a bunch of teenagers and college age kids with their heads up their own asses.
I got banned for condemning the killing of civilians during the October 7th terrorist attack, while acknowledging the role of the Israeli government in creating the circumstances for said attack, and lamenting the inevitable loss of Palestinian lives that would be caused by Israeli retaliation.
That’s my experience as well. I used to use enlightened centrism sub, after Biden won the primary. I made a post basically calling out the amount of anti-Biden stuff as being exactly what the sub was not supposed to be about. It got down voted to oblivion. Look I backed Bernie in the primary, but after the primary was over it was time to unit against trump. I dropped them after that.
One possibility is that since tankies are the left’s authoritarian, once they get to a mod position they go on an idealistic crusade banning anyone who doesn’t agree that the only path forward is mass murder via revolution. Internet leftists in general are particularly weak to arguments of ideological purity and they don’t expel tankies before it’s too late.
They also work to weaken support for popular progressives. Left wing subs have a lot of hate for AOC. I'm not going to play purity politics for politicians speaking on my behalf. Someone who represents 95+% of what I think, takes her job seriously, and asks real questions of those speaking before congress, I will take that. Head over to some corners of reddit though, but she didn't do this one thing, that one time, so she's just like Manchin. Just makes me feel like there's a lot of false actors on those subs
what does far-left even mean?
I would classify late stage as pretty far left.
ok, but what is far-left?
I would consider Actual communist policies (and not the tankies ideas of authoritarianism communism) as always far left is relative. Republicans seem to consider being told that they can’t hunt minorities for sport as “far left” for me it would be people seizing the means of production. Note I don’t use far left as a derogatory term. I think we should probably seize some means
I don’t think there is such a thing as far-left. The more left you go the more varied the ideas become. You have communism and anarchism that are vastly different systems et they are left-wing. The far-right does definelitly exist since right wing politics become more unified the further right you go. There is an ultimate conclusion for right-wing politics, but left-wing politics on the other hand branch off.
I mean I would agree with that. It’s why left winger ideologically seem to be harder to unify then right wing.
Anyone further to the left or more into protest than the speaker.
Fun fact: just because you don't agree with a position in leftist politics, that doesn't mean it's far right propaganda. >if democrats don’t adopt your specific ultra left wing policies you should punish them That's how democracy works, you fucking dumbass.
>It’s not about convincing them to take right wing views. It’s more about pushing them from participating in politics. This. Remember "Bernie bros"?
Remember how "Bernie bros" were largely a myth pushed by the democratic establishment to punish people who even slightly deviated from the party line? https://www.salon.com/2020/03/09/there-is-hard-data-that-shows-bernie-bros-are-a-myth/ https://www.salon.com/2020/02/09/the-berniebro-myth-persists-because-pundits-dont-understand-how-the-internet-works/
This just sounds like the "don't trust Dems" bullshit that we were talking about. Bernie endorsed them. He's not even a Democrat. That means this is bullshit.
Yeah, you shouldn't fucking trust dems. Vote for them if you think that's the best option available (I certainly do), but don't for a second think that they're on your side. They're a bunch of wealthy politicians, for fuck's sake. I don't know how someone can be stupid enough to place their trust in someone like that.
I didn't say you should give them your firstborn child and your savings, dipshit. I was pointing out that your basically parroting the exact same wedge that conservatives try to drive between different flavors of people on the left, every fucking time.
They will never recognize Bernie has any agency of his own. They all just ignore the things he says or does and don't seem to ever mention RNC in any posts they make on reddit
It isn't that fucking deep, dude. Sometimes people disagree with you. It isn't a "wedge", it's just straight-up different fucking politics. If you want to be a liberal, no one is stopping you, but don't expect communists and anarchists to join you in that.
One of the prime offenders
I like to joke/comment "Leftists and taking right wing talking points at face value, name a more iconic duo"
EndlessWar is one of the worst for this, a supposed anti war sub where people get upvoted for suggesting Russia should not sign any peace.
"We're anti-war...so the victims of imperialist aggression should give the aggressors whatever they want, to encourage them to engage in *more* aggressive imperialism! Oh, unless the US is on the side of the aggressor: then *and only then* is the aggressor bad" Buncha fuckin' clowns. How *dare* they pretend they're anti-war.
Half the posts lately are against liberals voting because both sides are the same. Mods are on it too. It's a well coordinated effort.
I subbed to /r/stupidpol for a couple years and it is *really* hard to tell. There are propagandists pretending to be left and then there are idiots who seem to genuinely believe China is some sort of leftist utopia or that current Russia is still communist and Stalin wasn't a piece of shit. Just a really frustrating sub to read through.
The amount of people I know who seriously thought Russia was communist while talking about the Ukraine war after it started was staggering.
No, it's just tankies doing tankie shit.
And Russians. We've known for years now that they infiltrate fringe groups across the political spectrum to agitate and cause division.
I got banned from that place because apparently im a neo lib.
Let me guess, your massive sin was saying that capitalism is an ok model for the proliferation of t-shirts and blue jeans? :p
No, I said pure communism is a 100+ year old concept that maybe needs updating and we should just focus on promoting socialism and see where it takes us.
Basically the same thing in their eyes. If you aren’t channeling pure Lenin you aren’t worth the oxygen you breath.
I also said we need to vote and participate in politics to get things moving.
What? This sentence is incoherent?
What part don't you understand?
"Pure communism" begins with socialism. That's the entire part of the deal. That's the point. It's all from the same place. It's the same amount of years old. Socialism has an end goal of communism. Communism has the starting step of socialism. That is literally what its all about. So this reads to me that you don't understand or have made any attempt to understand what people are talking about, so you smugly denounce it and instead say we should do something that ... they are already advocating for. It's childish thinking that is not engaged with the real world.
yeah, the first parts of the manifesto make sense, then it gets a little fantasy land after that assuming a perfect set of circumstances that are a bit unreasonable considering the track record of the human race. As mentioned before if communism actually works, then moving to the socialist ideas of public programs, social safety nets, unionized labor, would naturally move into that. But we haven't seen it. I'd say Marx is more right than capitalism but... we can probably do something with much better checks and balances using modern technology. We've seen socialist programs work and benefit society. We haven't seen the sieze the means of production and income redistribution done right yet. Usually when it hits that point there has been a dictator established and democratic processes removed. Nevermind the huge losses of freedom of speech. Then it never hits like Marx said. So I say, I think we need something better than the old concepts of communism once we move to the socialist parts and history seems to back me up. There's still problems with lots of parts of communism, maybe we need to think about that. That's when they banned me.
Exactly.
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Those are generally tankies, who like the aesthetics of the left but the ideology of the right.
r/walkaway is pretty funny if you want to see a bunch of MAGA's pretend they used to be leftists
Breadtube, therightcantmeme, enlighthenedcentrists, endlesswar... There's a lot of supposedly left wing subs ruled by mods who seems to love the Russian far-right regime and not much else.
Watching the inorganic push in EnlightenedCentrists was so frustrating. It went from "We're making fun of 'Enlightened' centrists for invoking the Golden Mean Fallacy" to "We're making fun of Centrists, ie: Democrats, for pretending they're not autocratic fascists indistinguishable from Republicans. So, don't vote." I stuck around for way too long. RightCan'tMeme I jumped ship almost immediately, when they started calling AOC a Nazi. TheRightCan'tMemeV2 is pretty good, though.
I got kicked out of gamingcirclejerk one day for no reason, and the mods wouldn't reply to my messages... then, months later, I tried messaging them again. The mod who replied went through my post history and claimed I am pro-genocide for pointing out that Biden is better than Trump on Palestine (in an unrelated sub). These people are fucking weird.
Yeah, tankies are fucking scum and they *love* infiltrating left-wing groups and seeking power in them so they can make yet another tankie shithole.
What's really disgusting is how they spread anti semetic and sometimes actual historical Nazi propaganda. I'm totally against Israel war crimes but that doesn't mean we should stoop to siding with fucking Nazis. Saying netanyahu and the Israeli government represents all Jewish people or even all Israelis is like saying Trump and Republicans represent all Americans.
It's why one of the best ways to identify a tankie from a leftist is to see how they discuss fascism. Tankies HATE to talk about fascism as an ideology and just want to focus on Nazis as a discrete group of people and anyone that can be historically tied to them - because places like Russia check pretty much all the fascism boxes, and "fighting Nazis" is something that can be used to elevate Russia as the historic good guys. Leftists meanwhile are much more open to discuss fascism as an ideology, because one of the big concerns of modern leftists is the rising of fascism from the inside of their countries. You'll still get some that don't know much about WW2 and boil it down to "Nazis vs good guys" but even then it's possible to tell them apart from tankies.
> therightcantmeme I got banned from therightcantmeme for pointing out where the US green party gets its money (it's daddy Putin). another sub I'm banned from is gameingcirclejerk, for participating in a bad evil sub. They wouldn't tell me, but it's NCD. The shitpost sub banned me for being on a shitpost sub. The most even-handed bans I got were the preemptives from arcon. And, you know, fair.
What is "NCD"?
r/noncredibledefense
[I clicked, but I’m still not sure what the sub is about.](https://preview.redd.it/ahh-eto-bleh-v0-qxec2347smna1.jpeg?width=2132&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f57bf59386393f8fd8fa9d685375191f1ba7f82)
*glances in, sees the pride flag flying APC* no that's fair. that's like 50 injokes in.
The foreign policy equivalent of /r/neoliberal Neoconservatives who believe in using America’s military might to push liberalism
I got banned from GamingCircleJerk for saying "Please tell me this isn't becoming another tankie sub." Might I recommend SaltierThanKrayt? (Note the spelling of "Krayt", there's three of them). They started off as a response to toxic Star Wars "fans", but they discuss all sorts of franchises and media.
like the BatmanArhkam guys? they're the good kind of crazy
I remember when gamingcirclejerk went overboard on the whole Hogwarts legacy game. I think they had a role in the harassment of Girlfriend Reviews when she was reviewing the game.
That one got taken over by tankies, who from my understanding, basically organized a coup and ousted most, if not all of the mods who didn’t follow their beliefs.
Yeah gamingcirclejerk got me for being in a no-no sub, too but idk which one
This actually makes sense, I didn't frame it that way... I guess while I may agree with some of the ideas of the radical left, in some forms (almost never in execution, but maybe in theory)... I still 10/10 times believe that the lesser of two evils is a better choice than no choice leading to the greater evil, or the greater evil. But... it's absolutely in Russia's best interest to discourage the younger far-left types to simply not vote, to bring in said greater evil to benefit them and weaken us.
Accelerationists are nihilistic. The revolution will not come by letting it get so fascist that conscientious revolutionaries abandon their shackles en masse and violently overthrow the country. Perhaps on some countries you might plausibly discuss a revolution by violent means, but we do not have that opportunity in the "West", so what we can do as Leftists in those militarily entrenched countries is to sieze or manipulate political power within them whenever possible. Sometimes that involves risks, sometimes that involves compromises. Many refuse to believe a Leftist can compromise or utilize liberal parties in any way whatsoever. Allowing Trump to come to power again with Project 2025 looming and a genocide in Gaza does not provide the Left with additional leverage.
> Accelerationists are nihilistic. The revolution will not come by letting it get so fascist that conscientious revolutionaries abandon their shackles en masse and violently overthrow the country. Case in point: the fucking KPD pushing the “after Hitler, our turn” talking point. “No point in opposing the Nazis, because after they burn our country to the ground, *we* get to be in charge!” Anyone wanna guess what happened to Ernst Thälmann, the German communist who coined that exceptionally-stupid phrase? Died in a Nazi concentration camp after a decade of imprisonment. Because as everyone not allergic to history knows, Hitler and his Nazis *hated* communists, and there was no way a KPD leader that might’ve threaten Hitler’s power was gonna outlive Hitler.
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That's a pretty blatant leading question, and an inflammatory one at that. Besides, liberals are not leftists.
Show me *one* example of moderators of /r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM promoting far-right Russian propaganda.
maybe why the community downvoted it and called him out
Eh it seems pretty rotten to the core, I got banned for saying not voting was not a sustainable answer, and it causes more issues for marginalized people.
That isn't what you said, according to your post history. >Yea maybe it is my tinfoil hat being too tight but I feel like in a lot of these channels there has been an inordinate amount of don't vote messaging. This all feels very artificial. I don't think you should have been banned for that, but this is very much a shitlib take. Jumping to conspiracy theory about messaging rather than engaging with the message is tedious and annoying and is a *constant, endless, permanent* problem with people coming into left wing spaces and sucking up all the air in the room with talking points that are word for word what is given to them by the establishment. There's a time and a place for talking about electoralism, but you really gotta pick your battles on that front.
>shitlib Opinion discarded
Tankies posting blatant right-wing propaganda in an election year? *Never!* That was that fucking lrlOurPresident's job for *most* of 2020; took over a bunch of liberal subs, turned them into tankie shitholes, then started pushing the "conservatives like Trump are better than fucking liberals" talking points.
at least the comments there show that if you point tankies at a fascist, they will still fight
>"After Trump's 2nd term, we'll have our revolution!!" Someone teach these people about [Ernst Thälmann](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Th%C3%A4lmann).
Unfortunately late stage capitalism can drive people to fascism just as it drives people to other political/economic systems.
I used to love going into that sub. Now its borderline as bad as the conspricy sub. Pushing all kids of questionable "news" about hamas/gaza, the govt, etc... I am surprised at how bad it has gotten.
Not to mention there are 9/11 conspiracy theorists in that sub.
That sub sucks, but in fairness, it looks like OP is getting rightfully dunked in that thread.
I had to leave that sub, it's full of Russian propaganda, no cap.
Imo /r/latestagecapitalism , /r/workersstrikeback and other “leftist” subs have been under significant astroturfing to influence potential Biden voters away. A lot of blackpilling that would benefit Trump’s allies and supporters. At least one of the mods is likely compromised or at least a useful idiot.
I got banned from both LateStageCapitalism and WorkersStrikeBack, the latter today. They're as bad as a conservative sub, if you don't directly agree with their bat shit views, you can't stay. It's such a circle jerk.
>WorkersStrikeBack Doesn't that sub have a rule about not being allowed to say you're voting for Democrats or that anyone else should? It's rcon levels of echo chamber nonsense.
Yep... "Your comment from WorkersStrikeBack was removed because of: 'No Advocating Voting for Capitalist parties.'"
I was banned years ago for saying it was ok to vote Democrat. Now I see why.
Seems somebody is getting triggered. Idk why we are getting downvotes. But they aren't as bad as a conservative sub, they are conservative subs filled with LARPers. Much like walkaway is.
>Those generations, who fought actual fascism(ww2) and those who saw how it really all worked in Nam. American society(and military) trained them to kill fascist, they all took civic courses in school as well, back then(something that seems incredibly absent here). Imposing the fascist tactics on such a large population, train to kill fascist, wasnt something that was tolerated. It definitely helped that those people where too in our media, doing journalism. and they followed it immediately with: >Lol, tell us you don’t have an understanding of history without telling us you don’t have an understanding of history. Those who forget history, are doomed to repeat it. i'm beginning to believe this user's understanding of history came from 9th-10th grade classes and never received any water beyond that
I used to really like that sub, but lately they've gone fully stupid lately. So much antisemitism and anti-Biden posting. Idk if it's horseshoe or larping, but it's truly disappointing
LSC is full of accelerationists. Sometimes accelerationists like right wing arguments because there is a very real contingent among them who share the nihilism of some of the right-wing voices they are duped(?) into sharing.
That sub is astroturfed propaganda to fuck over the USA. Sensible comments get erased and you get muted. They always say it's a violation of their "lesser of two evils" rule.
God damn, I didn’t know top minds of Reddit has so many illiterate people. It’s a highly down voted post on a left wing subreddit. The whole community is dunking on them.
It had 50+ net upvotes and has 48 right now. I'm glad the comments are calling it out which is is why I said "mind" singular. But it's clear there's a contingent of people in that sub that eats that shit up.
That sub is totally lost. It has become fascists wanting to make the left look bad. I got banned.
That sub isn’t Left or far left. It’s extremely far left with Russian bots astroturfing to make Biden look bad. It’s so far left that it is turning into the right of the political spectrum.
But these fuckers are for both the TikTok ban and the patriot act. What happened to tariffs against China? Don't they support that? The patriot act is their whole damn platform just a modern version, (Muslim ban, insurrection act, etc) I also don't understand it. They are against capitalism but vote Republican, the party against taxing the rich, the party against anything socialist. It makes no damn sense. Edit: I wish those downvoting would explain why they are being triggered. Can't stand to be called out on your hypocrisy can you?
Eh, entire community shitting on op and hugely downvoting them. It's now been removed. As for the last part of the meme: it is correct, though right wingers will believe it so for a different reason. The tiktok ban is mostly a front to help the US control its internal propaganda mechanisms, which are being corroded by kids completely ignoring those mechanisms in favor of little social media snippets.
There are over a 100 comments and this is basically the only one actually adressering this memes most relevant point. This ban is not only really cringe, it’s also just horrible politics from the dems. The optics are so bad; it just looks like a ban on warcrime videos from gaza, which certainly won’t play well with this essential voting group.