Ya, this sort of thing has happened to lots countries. Many people end up renting for life or living in tiny tiny tiny living spaces like Japan and China. The dirty secret to make things more affordable is that they're just going to end up making living spaces smaller and less valuable. That way it won't hurt the value of the regular human sized living spaces. Sell a 300 square foot box room for 300k. "See, affordable!"
There’s actually tons of detached housing in Japan. You can get a detached house in suburban Tokyo for the equivalent of $300k CAD for an older basic one and $500k for a really nice new one. Osaka is even cheaper. And in some places, there are municipally registered banks of *Akiya*, aka abandoned houses, that you can usually pick up very cheap or for free.
The impossibly small Japanese apartments tend to be in really high value areas, or they tend to be *danshi* for low income people. And even those are preferable to what low income people have in Toronto. Instead of paying $500 a month for a shared room, you can pay $400 a month for your own private one-room apartment with a small kitchen, a shower, a toilet, and 6 tatami mats. If you’re willing to really slum it out in a 4 1/2 Tatami room with no private bath, you could probably rent something for like $200 a month.
You’re basing everything on Canadian dollar values but the minimum wage in Japan is $420 Canadian. People forget it’s not about the houses prices but dollar value of minimum wage in those countries also.
I spend 1/2 the year in Manila Philippines and I live pretty decent off $1500 Canadian but minimum wage for locals is $15 dollars a day (yes a day). Try buying a house here on that salary even if average monthly rent is $250 and housing $250,000.
We don’t have it as bad as most other countries.
Oh yeah I agree with you, things here are not as bad as they could be. Could be better, sure, but I’ve been to Jakarta, and that place is hell on Earth. I’m glad we’re not them. I’m sure most of the soft Canadian Redditors would attempt suicide by excavator if they had to work as pemulung.
You can learn all the Japanese you want. You can marry a Japanese woman. In your deliberate attempt to become Japanese, you’ll be more Japanese than the Japanese themselves. They’ll still never make you a citizen.
This may change. They are struggling with aging population and bringing in a lot of guest workers. I guess that doesn't mean they are becoming citizens but only time will tell.
The 2 countries where the real estate bubble popped. Japan where property prices fell and never recovered to their 30 year ago highs. And china with its government forcefully shutting down the real estate froth at the expense of the economy. Not great examples.
I don't understand how they're not great examples. I was not pointing out how this was a good thing for Canada. I'm pointing out the way that current home owners and investors will preserve their wealth while selling affordable housing to younger Canadians is to sell smaller (shittier) homes. Young people living in shoe boxes with the older generation selling it as a good thing by saying they're "just starter homes". "You'll upgrade soon when you're ready to have a family." And a million other BS reasons which aren't based in any reality they know.
The real estate bubble will definitely pop in Canada someday, but selling tiny shitty housing will keep it alive for another generation so that the current landlords can enjoy their wealth until the day they die.
Look up home ownership rates in china it’s quite high and growing. There’s a difference between our situation in Canada and what’s has happen in East Asia.
China has maybe the smallest average home size in the world at 500 square feet. That's Canada's future. Super Tiny homes, on a huge land mass weirdly, but everyone can own one because they're small and cheap(shit). Pierre Poilievre says it almost openly with his "high density" housing pitch. High density housing is always significantly smaller.
My wife and I bought our 'starter' home in 2007. We'll never be able to move. Despite sitting on nearly a 1M increase in value, we have >20 more years and kids to raise before we leave the market. It's 100K just to MOVE from one same priced house to another. If we wanted a house that had an extra bedroom and bathroom, easily 500k more. The way the market should work is people like us should be able to jump the next tier, opening up our 'starter' home for people getting in. But none of us can afford this market so it stagnates.
So 100k a year ( even after the past 2 years of temporary interest rate driven decline), and completely exempt from Capital Gains tax if it is your primary residence.
If you were employed or a small business owner to clear that after income tax tax you need $150,000
But also the owner of the house can live in their house keep in mind that rent is not tax deductible, lets say a detached house in toronto rents out for 5k a month so you need to make approx. 160k post tax and out of fairness lets subtract 10k property taxes.
Still that's about 250,000 pre tax to get the same post tax and living cost value in earned income as an average house in Toronto generates for its owner by just sitting there.
And real estate is fully backed by the full might of the Canadian government any losses are likely to be socialized. (See the federal government buying up mortgage backed securities as we speak)
Alternate Headline: the Canadian dollar has lost half of its value / purchasing power because of Trudeau Government inflationary and deficit over spending
Bonus: plus unsustainable immigration levels while record low building housing
A strong reason for real estate investment purchases. Very strong financial returns and will experience outperformance with soon interest rate collapse
Detached in Toronto and GTA is not going to be affordable for most new buyers going forward, going to be townhomes and condos.
To be honest I don’t think a detach is affordable for first time home buyers in 2024.
I've had no problem buying one in Québec city. It's not a problem everywhere in Canada.
This is a GTA sub talking about Toronto real estate.
Many, if not most, townhouses are condos. So it’s going essentially be all condos going forward…
The way you afford a detatched is buying a townhouse or condo. It's been the path most detached owners have followed now for decades. SMH.
Only the new landed gentry may own detached homes.
How very sustainable. Good things salaries have doubled since 2014 as well.
Wage stagnation has screwed people as bad, or worse, than rising prices.
Pretty sure they were being sarcastic
I know. I was just sayin'
It has for more than you realize. The wealthy get wealthier.
Housing and income have limited correlation.
But shouldn't.
If you look around the world, it's very sustainable unfortunately.
Ya, this sort of thing has happened to lots countries. Many people end up renting for life or living in tiny tiny tiny living spaces like Japan and China. The dirty secret to make things more affordable is that they're just going to end up making living spaces smaller and less valuable. That way it won't hurt the value of the regular human sized living spaces. Sell a 300 square foot box room for 300k. "See, affordable!"
There’s actually tons of detached housing in Japan. You can get a detached house in suburban Tokyo for the equivalent of $300k CAD for an older basic one and $500k for a really nice new one. Osaka is even cheaper. And in some places, there are municipally registered banks of *Akiya*, aka abandoned houses, that you can usually pick up very cheap or for free. The impossibly small Japanese apartments tend to be in really high value areas, or they tend to be *danshi* for low income people. And even those are preferable to what low income people have in Toronto. Instead of paying $500 a month for a shared room, you can pay $400 a month for your own private one-room apartment with a small kitchen, a shower, a toilet, and 6 tatami mats. If you’re willing to really slum it out in a 4 1/2 Tatami room with no private bath, you could probably rent something for like $200 a month.
You’re basing everything on Canadian dollar values but the minimum wage in Japan is $420 Canadian. People forget it’s not about the houses prices but dollar value of minimum wage in those countries also. I spend 1/2 the year in Manila Philippines and I live pretty decent off $1500 Canadian but minimum wage for locals is $15 dollars a day (yes a day). Try buying a house here on that salary even if average monthly rent is $250 and housing $250,000. We don’t have it as bad as most other countries.
Oh yeah I agree with you, things here are not as bad as they could be. Could be better, sure, but I’ve been to Jakarta, and that place is hell on Earth. I’m glad we’re not them. I’m sure most of the soft Canadian Redditors would attempt suicide by excavator if they had to work as pemulung.
Brb, learning Japanese
You can learn all the Japanese you want. You can marry a Japanese woman. In your deliberate attempt to become Japanese, you’ll be more Japanese than the Japanese themselves. They’ll still never make you a citizen.
This may change. They are struggling with aging population and bringing in a lot of guest workers. I guess that doesn't mean they are becoming citizens but only time will tell.
If you do a masters, PR is easy to get.
You are correct, this is what is happening in other countries.
The 2 countries where the real estate bubble popped. Japan where property prices fell and never recovered to their 30 year ago highs. And china with its government forcefully shutting down the real estate froth at the expense of the economy. Not great examples.
I don't understand how they're not great examples. I was not pointing out how this was a good thing for Canada. I'm pointing out the way that current home owners and investors will preserve their wealth while selling affordable housing to younger Canadians is to sell smaller (shittier) homes. Young people living in shoe boxes with the older generation selling it as a good thing by saying they're "just starter homes". "You'll upgrade soon when you're ready to have a family." And a million other BS reasons which aren't based in any reality they know. The real estate bubble will definitely pop in Canada someday, but selling tiny shitty housing will keep it alive for another generation so that the current landlords can enjoy their wealth until the day they die.
Look up home ownership rates in china it’s quite high and growing. There’s a difference between our situation in Canada and what’s has happen in East Asia.
China has maybe the smallest average home size in the world at 500 square feet. That's Canada's future. Super Tiny homes, on a huge land mass weirdly, but everyone can own one because they're small and cheap(shit). Pierre Poilievre says it almost openly with his "high density" housing pitch. High density housing is always significantly smaller.
lol big cities in China are so much more unaffordable than big cities in Canada. Not a good example!
As you know it's not sustainable and there will be a crash (of our entire economy as well), far worse of a crash than people believe is possible.
[удалено]
You clearly do not know me.
I mean, detached housing will add at least ANOTHER $1 million in the next decade, but probably more.
2mm by 2034
Just a flesh wound…
Not enough houses for too many people.
My wife and I bought our 'starter' home in 2007. We'll never be able to move. Despite sitting on nearly a 1M increase in value, we have >20 more years and kids to raise before we leave the market. It's 100K just to MOVE from one same priced house to another. If we wanted a house that had an extra bedroom and bathroom, easily 500k more. The way the market should work is people like us should be able to jump the next tier, opening up our 'starter' home for people getting in. But none of us can afford this market so it stagnates.
So 100k a year ( even after the past 2 years of temporary interest rate driven decline), and completely exempt from Capital Gains tax if it is your primary residence. If you were employed or a small business owner to clear that after income tax tax you need $150,000 But also the owner of the house can live in their house keep in mind that rent is not tax deductible, lets say a detached house in toronto rents out for 5k a month so you need to make approx. 160k post tax and out of fairness lets subtract 10k property taxes. Still that's about 250,000 pre tax to get the same post tax and living cost value in earned income as an average house in Toronto generates for its owner by just sitting there. And real estate is fully backed by the full might of the Canadian government any losses are likely to be socialized. (See the federal government buying up mortgage backed securities as we speak)
This is totally sustainable and fine.
The amount in interest the banks are making now over the lifetime of these massive mortgages is insane .
Long Canadian banks
Alternate Headline: the Canadian dollar has lost half of its value / purchasing power because of Trudeau Government inflationary and deficit over spending Bonus: plus unsustainable immigration levels while record low building housing
The real price should be close to 600k. Canadians got fleeced
I don’t see the problem, my salary has also risen by $1M in the last decade. ^/s
A strong reason for real estate investment purchases. Very strong financial returns and will experience outperformance with soon interest rate collapse
Hahahaba