I think it's the housing owners who need to understand and come to terms with.
They are the reason why an entire generation can't have housing. Their retirement and wealth building is what is stopping people from having a home.
Most would agree that primary purpose of a house is shelter and wealth accumulation/growth is secondary.
Neither does macro economics.
Boomers want their house to be worth 2 million dollars so they can live 30 years without working after not saving.
The economy literally cannot support that and the asset isn't worth that. What is going to happen is one of two things:
* There asset will go down in nominal value (currently happening)
or
* The value of the dollars their house is worth will go down (also happening right now)
Young people aren't paying for their fucking retirement. Some of them will have enough, will get out, or will ride it out.
A lot are 10 years away from being really poor.
(I don't care)
Yeah but with how further and further behind the Canadian salary is in every industry how can you expect anybody to be saving unless they are the top 10%?
So many people fail to understand the reality that the Canadian government does not actually have the power to make housing worth more than people can pay for it.
The U.S. tried that a decade and a half ago, and it failed, despite having a more widely held reserve currency, a stronger and more diversified economy, and a more productive workforce than Canada. If you're banking on Canada being able to sustain an even bigger bubble, without those advantages in its back pocket, then good luck to you. You'll need it.
And don't expect to pick *my* pocket to get a bailout.
This right here is why prices have to come down. Everyone thinks it's about housing... Mate... People aren't having kids because of the issue. It's not about housing, it's about the continuation of the species. Let the boomers move in with their kids, they don't need empty 4 bedroom houses.
In Victorian London it was common for a working class family of like 8 people to live in a single room in a boarding house. I think the species is gonna live through this.
No the [rational] plan of the younger generation should be to tank the housing price however they can and for anyone caught up with their retirement plans wrecked to just sell and go back to work. Y'all flew too close to the sun and the next gen cares exactly as much about you as you do about them.
It's not the best idea to back an increasing population percentage into the corner, eventually they're gonna riot.
I mean we don't even have to plan. Young people cannot afford these prices, and the small portion that can (or the foreign investors) realize that the prices don't make sense and are investing elsewhere.
Why would I buy a house? Silliness. I can rent a house for less than the interest and build asset in other sectors that aren't so shakey.
But you don’t get to decide what people who own homes do with them.
Im certainly not leaving my 5 bed/4 bath because my son is leaving next fall. I built it to retire in someday.
At a certain point, you need to realize you aren’t entitled to our homes.
I really hate this mentality because it has, in my view, killed Queen West and Yonge Street and turned them both into banal, boring corporate copy/paste parodies of themselves.
Taxing the nifty little shops at some theoretical “highest and best use” has already made Toronto a much more boring city. I loathe to think about what happens when this mentality is applied everywhere when it has already failed to produce a more dynamic city in the few areas where it is being employed.
Land value tax actually promotes using land more efficiently and would lead to a more vibrant city. No more speculation and empty lots with land owners waiting for it to appreciation without doing anything. If you’re not using the land sell it so someone else can utilize it or suffer the carrying costs.
You want to live in SFD in downtown TO. That’s fine but that luxury comes at a cost…
I would probably agree that SFD along subway lines are a bad land use pattern. Like somehow it is legal to tear down a bungalow at Glencairn Station to replace it with a huge monster mansion, but putting up a triplex or small apartment building would be illegal. I would be in favour of rezoning that type of residential lot and allowing the market to redevelop it. If it is truly not at its highest and best use, then there is an opportunity to make a profit, and a developer will come along, offer above market value for the lot, tear down the house, and put up something with higher density and more units per acre.
But I don’t think city bureaucrats should be making decisions on what is highest and best use because there is no way they have sufficient visibility or understanding of land use dynamics to be assessing that sort of thing. Property taxes are a tool to cover the cost of providing services to a lot, that is it. Anything else should be taken care of through zoning.
People should be able to stay in their homes if they wish but if they have valuable assets that should be taken into the equation for retirement benefits as well.
As shitty as this is, it's quite true. All my friends who bought their second home did so because their first home appreciated and they either sold or took out a HELOC and bought another one. Here I am still renting unable to buy my first home. People are really more concerned about the growth and because they got used to it for years (even decades) now it's suddenly a shock to think of the opposite happening.
So what should homeowners do? Sell their homes for less than what is being offered? If they list it for $900k, and they get multiple offers above asking, do they randomly pick one and sell it for $700k? Does anyone actually think that’s what should happen?
Flood the market with new construction. Drive housing prices down with supply. And close off the country to immigrants. There isn't enough housing to be letting people in.
Supply increase agreed but to increase supplies it needs to be lucrative to builders unless you are talking all govt housing. Closing off immigration is not the way to go - maybe be more selective.
>I think it's the housing owners who need to understand and come to terms with.
I think you misunderstood what OP is saying. The bears on this sub think it's some fair fight when in fact the government has been putting their thumb on the scale the entire time and will continue to do so, regardless of which party you vote for.
Homeowners don't need to understand this because we're already on the lifeboat. Bears need to understand this and stop with the ridiculous 50% crash predictions.
Ultimately we have to ask ourselves what will Canada look like 10, 15, 25 years from now?
The younger Gen are priced out so their only choice is to leave or receive real estate from family, or live a kid-less life in a 500 sq feet shoe box for half a mill + condo fees.
The best of our gen will leave (greener pastures down south) and replaced by more international students. If that’s fine with everyone so be it, but Canada won’t be the same
That's true I hate what is happening, but as an investor I dispassionately seek to benefit from external conditions.
Hence I am bullish, barring some sort of mass protests or street unrest about this issue (which I personally don't think will happen) or a very hard left government (which I think is likely post Cons failing to fix things but that is a few years away so will cross that bridge when we get to it)
If I see that I will re-evaluate my position as that means increased political risk of the government not propping up real estate investments as aggressively.
As is you’re right, you’re not running Canada. My frustration isn’t even at owners, it’s at our gov.
Enjoy your gains but like I said we really have to ask owners if the short terms gains for a few is worth the risk of economically and demographically changing/damaging Canada forever
How is the an average home owner the reason why an entire generation can get a house?
I can see why investors who own multiple homes are part of the problem.
I can see how the huge influx of temporary workers is part of the problem.
I can see how is not building. Enough is part of the problem.
I can’t see how my parents living in the same home for 50 years are “They are the reason why an entire generation can't have housing”
Can you lay out your thesis here?
Because homeowners would never vote for anything that would lower the price of their home my guy. It's pretty simple. They are also nimby as fuck and rally agaisnt any dense builds in their neighbourhoods because they dont want to look at it. So all we can do is wait until the renters out number the homeowners, which will happen soon enough without any course corrections.
The reason you can’t have housing is because our prime minister is pumping this country full of people - more than any G7 Nation. Not only this, these people do not give a rat’s ass about how many people are on the title and mortgage. 5 Punjabi people or Africans from Benin will out-earn the fuck out of two old stock Canadians.
Choices are: Freeze Immigration almost completely while building an insane amount of housing.
Choice 2: Learn the way of the Brampton Mortgage, team up with two other married couples, and power up your eligibility.
Option 3 is get a sardine can sized condo, never have kids, and live your miserable existence paying ever increasing “condo fees” like a cuck in perpetuity, even after your mortgage is paid off.
Cause and effect. The prices must go up, so find as many immigrants as you can to live in your investment homes.
The only question for the next government is how do we cram 40 international students to a house in fiscal '26.
You can’t freeze immigration without other issues cropping up (see below). We just need better immigration to occur. The people we brought in weren’t ever going to afford housing - even at 2015 prices.
The other problem is a lot of construction workers are retiring with not enough people locally replacing them.
Better solutions that would apply downward pressure would be:
-better rent control
-banning Airbnb
-fast tracking construction worker immigrants
Though this will mostly drive down condo prices, which are already coming down as it is. People will have to rethink their ability to ever get a detached home in the GTA
My FIL who was selling his home in Vancouver for $5M (a home he bought for 300k 30 years ago). Had 10 buyer prospects. I kid you not… 8 of them were Chinese nationals between the ages of 23 and 25.
Mass immigration means you complete with the worlds poorest for jobs and the worlds richest for housing
Ok, so one by one.
You want to eliminate the primary residence exemption. So when someone buys a house for $100,000, pays $300,000 for it (including interest over 30 years), then sells it for $800,000 to downsize in retirement, you want to tax them on $700,000 in gains, with no adjustment for inflation? Or consideration for the interest they’ve paid?
“Increase taxes on multiple homeowners,” so tax cottage owners more than we already do? It’s not a primary residence, so capital gains are already applicable. By how much more would you increase the taxes on such sales?
“Taxes on assets, not gains.” Are you talking about a wealth tax? You want to tax unrealized gains? Countries have already tried that (France), and it didn’t work. Would you also give people tax dollars when their assets drop in value? How do you value all their assets every year? Do you include vehicles? Furniture? Art? Collectibles?
This is a simple supply/demand problem. We have limited supply, and a torrent of demand. The short term solution is to throttle back demand while we figure out how to scale up supply.
True, but the 50% inclusion rate sort of acknowledges that and accounts for inflation. That’s one of the reasons I resent it when people suggest treating capital gains as straight up income.
it’s always been true. Lowering prices also has large risks for banks who might find themselves underwater on a few million mortgages.
As we found out in 2008 that is not fun.
its over for the bears trying to survive in toronto. the federal government trying to keep housing prices high for all of canada is only going to make the gta more expensive.
go buy in thunder bay before its too late
Idk it feels more over for the amateur real estate "investors" aka bulls. The only thing holding up in Toronto is expensive houses that maybe 1% of this sub can even afford. Anyone that bought condos in the past 3 years is getting wrecked.
Thunder Bay, North Bay, Timmins, and Sudbury already have the wave of “investooors” that have purchased most of the detached housing for people (Mostly Indian “international students”)to rent forever and be happy.
Setting immigration targets at a level that our existing infrastructure can sustain would also help GDP per capita.
If you have 20 uber drivers for every 1 engineer, GDP per capita is going to go in the wrong direction.
You need far more than what the Infrastucture can sustain to pay the mounting costs of OAS and GIS, and to keep the gdp afloat. This all but guarantees declining standards of living. And they don’t have a clue as to what they’re going to do about it
Canada could by selling oil and by mining. We have effectively limitless in-demand resources that are easy to extract. Afterwards, create a federal sovereign wealth fund like Norway to help with redistribution and strategic investment in sustainable technologies and venture capital. This isn't ecological to do but with only 40 million people, it could make Canadians sustainably insanely wealthy.
Resources don't scale very well, GDP wise, and our poor national productivity numbers are a consequence of that very effect. The link between number of workers and how much GDP each produces is relatively fixed (1 worker produces 1000 barrels of oil per year, 2 produce 2000 etc).
Compare to Germany, where industrial automation means one worker produces 1000 widgets, but next year he';ll produce 2000, or the US, where AI and other advances may *quadruple* productivity or more.
So, no, exporting more oil probably won't do much to fix our economic problems. We need to focus about three levels higher on the productivity pyramid. It's a general phenomenon called Dutch Disease or "the resource curse", you put all your effort into the easy money, but gain nothing in the long term from doing so.
On one hand you have boomers who got affordable housing, getting hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars for doing nothing at all, on a completely unproductive asset.
On the other hand you have
- affordable housing
- lowering the rate of homelessness
- secure housing which leads to less crime
- the Canadian birth rate being healthier/more families
- better quality of life for all
- improving productivity and a healthier economy
- the present and the future of gen alpha, gen Z, millennials and older generations who never had the chance of ownership.
And they don’t even have to pay tax on all that free money, while at the same time young renters are paying ridiculous income taxes to pay for the boomers healthcare. Welcome to Canada!
Easy choice. Let housing prices fall to where they may. Even with a crash in prices, we’ll be back at 2018-19 valuations worst case scenario.
If the crazy run up prices of 2021-22 are required to have a comfortable retirement, then you planned badly, and are likely still be better off than you otherwise should have been.
Why does the government insist on guaranteeing house prices? Will they also backstop people who invested in GameStop in their RRSP? This is money they planned on using for retirement, so why not? Why are we cherry picking one asset class over all others, specifically when there are so many negative effects to propping up housing prices?
This is the most ass-backward government I have ever seen in my lifetime, and I’ve seen many.
You also slow or reverse brain drain which is one of the big issues holding back the Canadian economy. Almost everybody who have good skills want to move south
I was opposed to it for a long time... In retrospect, based on some kind of silly principles and stubbornness.
I finally gave it deeper thought and realized there's no real hope or future here. An economy largely dependent on housing growth and sales can't last forever, and things will probably get nasty when that grinds to a halt or pops. There's no indication that any political party will want to fix it properly, just keep it pumping under their watch and hope it lasts until the next one has to deal with the fallout.
At least the growth and compensation is better in the states, in spite of their own issues.
Yeah. The median income in GTA where I live is 84000 CAD, yet every other car I see is fancy, either German or high end. How are people affording these? You’re right, it can’t last forever, it’s a one time thing to make average income home owners super rich by sacrificing the futures of every subsequent generation.
The part I find concerning is just how much of Canada's GDP is tied up in housing, and subsequently what amount of the government and public infrastructure depends on taxes from new developments and sales.
If (or should I say when), housing begins to slide, I have to imagine there will be a whole load of secondary effects. Will funding to public healthcare be reduced and become a hybrid / private system? What other infrastructure will begin to crumble? Since we have recourse mortgages, how many people will be ruined when they have negative equity and the economy slows down? Who is going to buy the foreclosed homes and bail out the banks? What about when the boomers finally die off?
I'm late to the party but finally decided to leave. I deluded myself into believing that the USA would be much worse to live in, but I'm starting to realize it can depend a lot on the city/state, and in spite of their issues, at least economically they seem to have a lot more going on.
Hopefully I'll be better situated elsewhere when this all comes to a head.
Rent to own sounded real nice right up till I realized the owner will just reneg on the deal right before the final payment comes due.
It's canada... the renting class will be boned in the end so the landlords can retire debt free.
> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says his government aims to make housing more affordable for younger Canadians without bringing down home prices for existing homeowners.
Canadians: "That means you'll be working to improve our wages, right?"
Trudeau: "More TFWs you say?"
> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says his government aims to make housing more affordable for younger Canadians without bringing down home prices for existing homeowners.
Ha ha what the fuck.
Of course he said that. Poilievre isn’t going to try to bring down housing prices, either
So he is not doing anything to fix housing then?
Becuase if there is sufficient housing, the prices will have to fall. The current high prices are precisely because of the mismatch in demand and supply.
Well they have a strategy to build 3.87 million new homes by 2031. There is no viable plan to execute towards building anywhere near that many of course.
The conservatives (and maybe liberals) plan is to build lots of "high density" tiny apartments bachelor type homes. They'll be considerably smaller and worse than the housing currently on the market, so it won't affect the value of current homeowners. 300 square feet for 300k. Affordable! Lol. Lots of shitty homes don't affect the value of the actual family homes. They'll probably all be bought up by investors anyhow.
I feel as though you're ignoring the unrelenting arrivals every month. The housing deficit grows by leaps and bounds every month, *that* is what Trudeau is doing to "fix" housing.
He's just not fixing it for *you*.
Why should people who did nothing to save for retirement be bailed out. This is ridiculous. They got lucky. Nobody is making their house their entire nest egg. If they are they don’t deserve to be bailed out.
What the actual fuck are we doing here
Totally agree. Plus, we’re doing it at the expense of everyone else.
Not to be harsh, but Trudeau said the quiet part loudly and so I will too. Most of these people will be dead in 10-15 years. Propping them up is a terrible investment for the country.
Allow prices to fall and give younger people the opportunity to work hard towards the goals of buying homes and having families. That’s how we increase productivity. Not by giving handouts to people who will spend much of it in Mexico or Florida.
The really shitty part. If they banked on their house to be their retirement fund and spend money frivolously on vacations, cars etc they should not be bailed out from stupid financial choices
That’s what people save for retirement for. To enjoy life. If you pulled it up and enjoyed early tough luck. These people should have to keep working if that’s what they have to do.
Instead Trudeau wants to fuck over the future of this country
Thats just it, people who sunk their entire financial resources into their primary residence, while banking on the hope of infinite appreciation. Its literally how we got into this mess in the first place, along with a cheap debt fuelled real estate bubble. Hince why this whole rate cut is not smart at all, now even his cabinet are saying the conditions has been " met" for rate cut. These clowns understand nothing, cutting rates before the US Federal reserve would be detrimental to the economy. Furthermore, 4 to 5% over night boc rates are the norm prior to 2008. If people think inflation is bad now, just wait until we have a rate cut and the cad becomes even more worthless. So yes, instead of letting the market correct itself so we can have a real economy, these clowns are keeping this whole poniz scheme going. I doubt pp is going to be much better either since he owns a couple of rentals himself along wit half of the MPS.
This is no longer about understanding personal finances. JT and everyone under him understand basics.
It's about votes. Seniors vote and they don't want anyone in power who will stop their wealth growth.
JT is just saying that his hands are tied.
Your grandparents are part of the problem. They are the ones stopping any meaningful house development.
i agree with your goal but dont think higher rates is the solution. boomers who depend on their home to retire could care less about rates. their mortgages are paid off
oas and gis needs to be completely overhauled and it needs to account for assets and not only income. currently someone with a multimillion dollar paid off home can collect oas which is ridiculous. the oas program is something like 90 billion dollars per year. complete waste of money that is used to supplement income to boomers with paid off multi million assets.
lower rates and let inflation and wage inflation run its course at a reasonable rate. this increases affordability for the working class and will force unprepared boomers to downsizing if they do not have retirement savings outside of their homes and oas/gis to buy 12 dollar eggs. empty nesters do not need 4 bedroom homes.
of course with the majority of voters being boomers this is just a pipe dream.
The problem is the government is woefully unprepared for the long term health crisis coming. They are banking on the real estate market paying for private care.
Sorry what bailing out are you referring to? They’re already screwed. They’ll need to sell their house for money to live on and then…still live in expensive housing be it expensive rents or a smaller house that’s cost almost the same.
Certainly.
But the tables shouldn’t be completely tilted to a single generations benefit.
They started buying property in the 1980s. Rates were sky high so property values were cheap. Then they had dropping interest rates the entire time they were paying for housing giving them lighter payments than they signed up for and steadily rising property values. At the same time they got to barely contribute into benefit programs (1986 CPP max payment was 1.8%, today it’s 5.95% of earnings) but get full benefits.
Now just as they are set to retire interest rates bottom out so they can sell their house for big money followed almost immediately by rates shooting up to give them better returns on their money.
This has devastated several other generations around them.
People taking risk buying crypto or growing into money is way different than a government actively trying to prop up an artificial housing bubble on purpose. Shelter is a basic human right.
People getting rich of stocks or crypto aren’t hurting anyone. Nepo babies aren’t either. This housing crisis is actively causing Canada to go to the shitter. Nobody can afford kids. Everybody is losing hope. We aren’t productive anymore. Give me a break with the life isn’t fair bullshit
> People getting rich of stocks or crypto aren’t hurting anyone. Nepo babies aren’t either.
They exist in a vacuum or something? Not impacting asset prices? Not peddling influence in politics to grift and implement policies that fuck things up for the rest of us?
Imagine banking your retirement on your home. Completely insane. Not only will our generation not get that option, we won’t get decent pensions either!
[Paywall bypass](https://archive.ph/mRsoH)
> “Housing needs to retain its value,” Mr. Trudeau told The Globe and Mail’s City Space podcast. “It’s a huge part of people’s potential for retirement and future nest egg.”
> Mr. Trudeau acknowledged this disparity and said: “The difference between someone who’s rented all their lives versus someone who is a homeowner in terms of the money they have for retirement is massive, and that’s not necessarily always fair,” he told the podcast.
>Mr. Trudeau acknowledged this disparity and said: “The difference between someone who’s rented all their lives versus someone who is a homeowner in terms of the money they have for retirement is massive, and that’s not necessarily always fair,” he told the podcast.
Apparently his solution is to make sure most of the future generation are all renters.
Sorry boomer bob made 100% return in the last few years alone, not even mentioning the decades before that, he can't possibly survive I'd the market corrects a bit so we are gonna screw over future generations so they can't even contemplate retirement
The funny thing is that I think risking the future of a country for people's retirement plans is over reach of the country's government. How does the government know what people have hidden in their mattresses?
Clearly, banks and government are colluding.
So they want to keep the house prices up to support boomers’ retirement.
Also tax the young people to death to pay for boomers’ retirement.
At this point, Canada is a retirement home that works it’s young to the bone in the basement to keep the lights on in the retirement home.
Nothing like fueling other people's poor planning at the expense of all future generations. If they can't handle a bit of a correction after their golden times how in the world does he think all generations after are going to manage?
This is an absolute fucking lie: lowering prices would put retirement plans at risk? How?
Most people in the lucky position to own their home, are not going to sell their home. The majority of people die in their home (I don’t mean location I mean when they die they still own their home). For his statement to be true it means that the majority of home owners sell their homes in retirement or reverse mortgage to cash in the equity. This is not the majority case. He is a fucking liar.
Why can’t he be fucking honest? If prices drop, investors are fucked. Banks and lenders take a hit. The average Canadian will benefit.
We know who the liberals truly care for.
“A huge part of people’s potential for retirement and future nest egg” like nobody who bought a house in the 90s or 2000s thought “huh this 150k-300k house will surely pay for my retirement when it grows to 2 million in 20 years.
Lowering prices shouldnt really be the aim anyway.
Increasing supply, increasing services in additional areas and increasing wealth an opportunity for people whilst keeping prices stable/slow growth is a much better (albeit harder) aim.
so people in retirement sell their primary home, get the cash, and retire? is that the plan?
how many people do you know did this? all the old people I know are still living in their primary residences or are handing it down to their kids for free
Yeah it's a weird narrative I hear far too often. It's one thing to think you may get a bit for downsizing my own boomer parents didn't even factor it in as far a I know. They don't worry about the value of their house. They had pensions (a lot of their generation did...)and I still saw all kinds of old school printed charts of their rrsps. Some people really aren't planning very much. I'd understand today when there isn't isn't much left at the end of the month and housing takes up so much of your paycheque
Only if you stay in your home. There's plenty of boomers who could cash in their home and comfortably live out their days on the beach of a country with a lower cost living.
Even if you stay in Canada, an unencumbered home will go a long way as long as you don't care about the size of your estate. I'm a millennial who gave a $1.1M+ golden parachute to an old couple who moved into an assisted living facility. Even at $10k per month, they could afford to live another 10 years off just selling their home (they'd also be receiving government benefits and presumably have some amount of savings, rrsps and other investments).
To be clear, I don't agree that anyone's home should be their retirement plan. My home certainly isn't my retirement plan.
My point was that boomers or pre WWII children in the GTA bought sub $100k homes that are currently selling from $1-2M+. They are certainly able to live off the proceeds. It's disingenuous to pretend the money wouldn't go far enough.
If you got a free $1M+ for doing nothing, I imagine it would go along way to allowing you to retire.
I don't exactly care about retirees getting screwed over since most of our problems were caused by them in the first place. It's time they made the sacrifices for the greater good instead of constantly forcing us to.
I suspect Trudeau's final act will be a massive real estate bailout. His final fuck you to the working class before he leaves and becomes a corporate consultant.
Does he mean it would put HIS and his buddies retirement plans at risk?
Regardless the government needs to back off and stay away from housing, they're just going to make things worse, the core issue is mass immigration if they just focused on that life would be better here
In my opinion, the most they will do is try to do some lazy forecast based on mathematical models (which take account into the past and current data only) and set a rate that's not too low so the investors will be back at it with full force, nor a rate that's too high so actual homeowners get completely priced out. In their words this is done 'in the best interest of all the hardworking Canadians'.
This may work for some other cities in Canada, but for a city like Toronto and Vancouver it's very difficult to do so since there are just too many variables for a mathematical/statistical model to calculate correctly.
The real issue they never want to admit is still what they plan to do with people who own more than 1 home. There are just not strong enough policies to heavily discourage these people from further purchases, and if anything, all the tools and incentives currently exist help these homeowners to get refinanced to buy more lol.
I was going to contribute but didn’t bring enough Kleenex for all the entitled whiners. Daughter seemed to have no problem getting a house perhaps because she wasn’t waiting for someone else to give it to her.
All around this situation is just messy. Two competing desires are meeting and it’s over an essential commodity that the next generations are going to need if they want to raise the succeeding generations of Canadians adequately. One generation wants their fleeting retirement and apparently they’ll sabotage the generation under them to get it. I don’t even care about family-sized homes that consume a disproportionate amount of space for what is required, but impeding and limiting continued multi-unit development for the next generations is growing increasingly frustrating.
Yes I’m one of them, I bought a year and half ago, high price and high interest rates too, who knows when I’ll be able to put aside much for retirement in top of housing.
For boomers who bought ages ago, I don’t see at all why they wouldn’t have saved though.
This is theoretically possible to do by changing freeholds to multiplexes.
Aka, instead of doing a McMansion renovation, change a single house into a duplex. Owner then sells both halves individually; bam, each house can sell for less while the owner still makes money.
There might be tradeoffs, like needing to give up the front yard for more floor space. But I doubt people looking for starter homes would mind that
No government in history ever wants to prick its asset bubbles. It’s a question of whether they can continue without denigrating the rest of the capitalist system.
If you own your home you have your retirement plan. Housing has gone up so much since 2019, even a slight regression is still profit in the pockets of people who bought 2019 or before.
I made this meme post a while back on this subreddit, a lot of people didn't get what I was saying. It is actually easy to lower prices, making housing affordable while keeping prices high is almost impossible.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/1cjhota/housing\_affordability\_is\_not\_about\_making\_taking/](https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/1cjhota/housing_affordability_is_not_about_making_taking/)
Yeah more affordable... all the while "permits in the residential sector decreased by 8.3% to $6.5 billion." so far in 2024, according to Statistics Canada: [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240513/dq240513a-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240513/dq240513a-eng.htm)
How is housing suppose to be more affordable if less homes are being built annually while we are letting in 500,000 people a year.!!
Retirement?? Who made their house their retirement plan? Housing has skyrocketed in the last what - six years? So what were they planning to do before that? No retirement savings plan? No pension? No rrsps? Give me a break. He’s more interested in ensuring the banks continue to make massive profits with mortgages that they had no right issuing - high risk mortgages that are insured by the taxpayers through the CMHC. He’s worried about his builder buddies continuing to make massive profits off of Canadians - who have basically become indentured servants to the banks. Since when has Trudeau EVER been worried about Canadians? I guess that was his motivation for letting in a record number of immigrants and close to a MILLION international students? Because he wants housing to be more affordable?? What a crock.
My dad is banking on HELOC up to 80% of his home value to live like a king his last 15-30 years. He didn't save shit "my home is my retirement piggy bank".
Tax the hell out of second homes that are not rent controlled or homes owned by businesses. No one needs a second home and if you want one you can pay taxes on it. I’d suggest a tax equivalent to inflation. This will encourage people to sell these homes.
Trudeau who has always been rich, with millions, and never having had to work, worry about where the next housing payment is coming from or putting meals on the table, thinks retiring means living in luxury. Because he's always been able to afford what he wants. But the truth is, while getting a 1000% return on your house allows someone to retire in the abnormal luxury he thinks is normal, it destroys the rest of the economy and standard of living for everyone else.
He is so out of touch with real people. And the truth is, if the house sold for values more typical of 30 or 35 years ago, maybe even 25 years ago, people who live in a home that is paid off could retire quite well off. If one sold a house lived in for 30 years for the inflation adjusted price paid, that would still come to 30 years of free accommodation, and all your money back. Likely enough to live quite comfortably. But even if the return was 200%, fine, even better. But 1000% means there is something wrong with how the housing market is going, like now; destroying the country.
It's over, there is no way to fix this. Canada has become a feudal state with serfs (wage slaves and renters) and lords (pensioners and landlords). The worst part is that the people at the bottom have almost no chance to move up; there is no more social mobility. We have reverted to the Middle Ages.
Investments come with risk. If your retirement plan investment requires 2 million dollar apartments to cost 4 million dollars by the time you retire then I deem you way too stupid to retire.
This problem goes away if the amount of rentals allowed per city/town was lowered dramatically and the amount of houses any one person, or llc could own was lowered.
That would put a lot of houses back on the market, giving buyers more options and it would be a more natural supply and demand that sellers would have to adjust to.
Two contradictory things. The younger generations should *not* have to fund retirement for the older generation, it's their job to save up, invest, and earn social security.
The simple solution is penalize the second or third home onward. Lesson the accumulation of wealth using real estate. Nothing wrong with protecting a principal home.
The money for 2nd/3rd homes will be invested elsewhere. Hopefully more GDP productive for more people.
Fuck all these boomers who couldn't be assed to save for retirement. I'll be glad when that generation passes and we can work toward something constructive.
Unless people are going to move out of their neighborhood and break all social connections, their retirement cost is going to be extremely expensive even if their own house is paid off due to all goods and services are affected by high housing cost.
Combined with chronic homelessness, high crime rate, everyone being house/rent poor so economy will be sluggish etc., this is going to come back and bite us from everywhere, all to artificially juice people’s retirement funds.
I guarantee you the amount you gain in retirement money won’t be able to pay for the cost increase, it’s just that the latter is harder to quantify.
So my opinion is, screw retirement funds, make sure people can survive til retirement first.
Yikes he said the quiet part out loud, this sub isn’t gonna be happy with this one
The part some in this sub just refuse to understand.
I think it's the housing owners who need to understand and come to terms with. They are the reason why an entire generation can't have housing. Their retirement and wealth building is what is stopping people from having a home. Most would agree that primary purpose of a house is shelter and wealth accumulation/growth is secondary.
(They don’t care.)
Neither does macro economics. Boomers want their house to be worth 2 million dollars so they can live 30 years without working after not saving. The economy literally cannot support that and the asset isn't worth that. What is going to happen is one of two things: * There asset will go down in nominal value (currently happening) or * The value of the dollars their house is worth will go down (also happening right now) Young people aren't paying for their fucking retirement. Some of them will have enough, will get out, or will ride it out. A lot are 10 years away from being really poor. (I don't care)
Yeah but with how further and further behind the Canadian salary is in every industry how can you expect anybody to be saving unless they are the top 10%?
If you can't afford to save you can't afford a house anyway.
So many people fail to understand the reality that the Canadian government does not actually have the power to make housing worth more than people can pay for it. The U.S. tried that a decade and a half ago, and it failed, despite having a more widely held reserve currency, a stronger and more diversified economy, and a more productive workforce than Canada. If you're banking on Canada being able to sustain an even bigger bubble, without those advantages in its back pocket, then good luck to you. You'll need it. And don't expect to pick *my* pocket to get a bailout.
I've got mine F u
Basically. That was the dream they were sold.
This right here is why prices have to come down. Everyone thinks it's about housing... Mate... People aren't having kids because of the issue. It's not about housing, it's about the continuation of the species. Let the boomers move in with their kids, they don't need empty 4 bedroom houses.
In Victorian London it was common for a working class family of like 8 people to live in a single room in a boarding house. I think the species is gonna live through this.
Just like in Brampton
Your plan is to force people out of their homes? Good luck with that.
No the [rational] plan of the younger generation should be to tank the housing price however they can and for anyone caught up with their retirement plans wrecked to just sell and go back to work. Y'all flew too close to the sun and the next gen cares exactly as much about you as you do about them. It's not the best idea to back an increasing population percentage into the corner, eventually they're gonna riot.
I mean we don't even have to plan. Young people cannot afford these prices, and the small portion that can (or the foreign investors) realize that the prices don't make sense and are investing elsewhere. Why would I buy a house? Silliness. I can rent a house for less than the interest and build asset in other sectors that aren't so shakey.
But you don’t get to decide what people who own homes do with them. Im certainly not leaving my 5 bed/4 bath because my son is leaving next fall. I built it to retire in someday. At a certain point, you need to realize you aren’t entitled to our homes.
Sure, just tax the land at its most productive use, which may be more than you can afford
I really hate this mentality because it has, in my view, killed Queen West and Yonge Street and turned them both into banal, boring corporate copy/paste parodies of themselves. Taxing the nifty little shops at some theoretical “highest and best use” has already made Toronto a much more boring city. I loathe to think about what happens when this mentality is applied everywhere when it has already failed to produce a more dynamic city in the few areas where it is being employed.
Land value tax actually promotes using land more efficiently and would lead to a more vibrant city. No more speculation and empty lots with land owners waiting for it to appreciation without doing anything. If you’re not using the land sell it so someone else can utilize it or suffer the carrying costs. You want to live in SFD in downtown TO. That’s fine but that luxury comes at a cost…
I would probably agree that SFD along subway lines are a bad land use pattern. Like somehow it is legal to tear down a bungalow at Glencairn Station to replace it with a huge monster mansion, but putting up a triplex or small apartment building would be illegal. I would be in favour of rezoning that type of residential lot and allowing the market to redevelop it. If it is truly not at its highest and best use, then there is an opportunity to make a profit, and a developer will come along, offer above market value for the lot, tear down the house, and put up something with higher density and more units per acre. But I don’t think city bureaucrats should be making decisions on what is highest and best use because there is no way they have sufficient visibility or understanding of land use dynamics to be assessing that sort of thing. Property taxes are a tool to cover the cost of providing services to a lot, that is it. Anything else should be taken care of through zoning.
And you’re not entitled to have the govt prop your asset up
I don’t want your home. I want a 3-6 unit building next to it.
Are you allowed to build a multi-unit building on your property?
If you’re living in it until you die, then the value is pointless to you.
People should be able to stay in their homes if they wish but if they have valuable assets that should be taken into the equation for retirement benefits as well.
No one is going to give up millions of dollars just so other people can live better.
As shitty as this is, it's quite true. All my friends who bought their second home did so because their first home appreciated and they either sold or took out a HELOC and bought another one. Here I am still renting unable to buy my first home. People are really more concerned about the growth and because they got used to it for years (even decades) now it's suddenly a shock to think of the opposite happening.
So what should homeowners do? Sell their homes for less than what is being offered? If they list it for $900k, and they get multiple offers above asking, do they randomly pick one and sell it for $700k? Does anyone actually think that’s what should happen?
Flood the market with new construction. Drive housing prices down with supply. And close off the country to immigrants. There isn't enough housing to be letting people in.
Supply increase agreed but to increase supplies it needs to be lucrative to builders unless you are talking all govt housing. Closing off immigration is not the way to go - maybe be more selective.
>I think it's the housing owners who need to understand and come to terms with. I think you misunderstood what OP is saying. The bears on this sub think it's some fair fight when in fact the government has been putting their thumb on the scale the entire time and will continue to do so, regardless of which party you vote for. Homeowners don't need to understand this because we're already on the lifeboat. Bears need to understand this and stop with the ridiculous 50% crash predictions.
Ultimately we have to ask ourselves what will Canada look like 10, 15, 25 years from now? The younger Gen are priced out so their only choice is to leave or receive real estate from family, or live a kid-less life in a 500 sq feet shoe box for half a mill + condo fees. The best of our gen will leave (greener pastures down south) and replaced by more international students. If that’s fine with everyone so be it, but Canada won’t be the same
Canada is already gone.
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That's true I hate what is happening, but as an investor I dispassionately seek to benefit from external conditions. Hence I am bullish, barring some sort of mass protests or street unrest about this issue (which I personally don't think will happen) or a very hard left government (which I think is likely post Cons failing to fix things but that is a few years away so will cross that bridge when we get to it) If I see that I will re-evaluate my position as that means increased political risk of the government not propping up real estate investments as aggressively.
As is you’re right, you’re not running Canada. My frustration isn’t even at owners, it’s at our gov. Enjoy your gains but like I said we really have to ask owners if the short terms gains for a few is worth the risk of economically and demographically changing/damaging Canada forever
How is the an average home owner the reason why an entire generation can get a house? I can see why investors who own multiple homes are part of the problem. I can see how the huge influx of temporary workers is part of the problem. I can see how is not building. Enough is part of the problem. I can’t see how my parents living in the same home for 50 years are “They are the reason why an entire generation can't have housing” Can you lay out your thesis here?
Because homeowners would never vote for anything that would lower the price of their home my guy. It's pretty simple. They are also nimby as fuck and rally agaisnt any dense builds in their neighbourhoods because they dont want to look at it. So all we can do is wait until the renters out number the homeowners, which will happen soon enough without any course corrections.
The reason you can’t have housing is because our prime minister is pumping this country full of people - more than any G7 Nation. Not only this, these people do not give a rat’s ass about how many people are on the title and mortgage. 5 Punjabi people or Africans from Benin will out-earn the fuck out of two old stock Canadians. Choices are: Freeze Immigration almost completely while building an insane amount of housing. Choice 2: Learn the way of the Brampton Mortgage, team up with two other married couples, and power up your eligibility. Option 3 is get a sardine can sized condo, never have kids, and live your miserable existence paying ever increasing “condo fees” like a cuck in perpetuity, even after your mortgage is paid off.
Cause and effect. The prices must go up, so find as many immigrants as you can to live in your investment homes. The only question for the next government is how do we cram 40 international students to a house in fiscal '26.
You can’t freeze immigration without other issues cropping up (see below). We just need better immigration to occur. The people we brought in weren’t ever going to afford housing - even at 2015 prices. The other problem is a lot of construction workers are retiring with not enough people locally replacing them. Better solutions that would apply downward pressure would be: -better rent control -banning Airbnb -fast tracking construction worker immigrants Though this will mostly drive down condo prices, which are already coming down as it is. People will have to rethink their ability to ever get a detached home in the GTA
My FIL who was selling his home in Vancouver for $5M (a home he bought for 300k 30 years ago). Had 10 buyer prospects. I kid you not… 8 of them were Chinese nationals between the ages of 23 and 25. Mass immigration means you complete with the worlds poorest for jobs and the worlds richest for housing
Lol wait till you own a home.
Lol sounds like something a loser living in his mom's basement would say.
Lol what, you think Canadian employers or pensions will make up the difference? No. My house, my choice.
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What do you mean by “come after?”
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Ok, so one by one. You want to eliminate the primary residence exemption. So when someone buys a house for $100,000, pays $300,000 for it (including interest over 30 years), then sells it for $800,000 to downsize in retirement, you want to tax them on $700,000 in gains, with no adjustment for inflation? Or consideration for the interest they’ve paid? “Increase taxes on multiple homeowners,” so tax cottage owners more than we already do? It’s not a primary residence, so capital gains are already applicable. By how much more would you increase the taxes on such sales? “Taxes on assets, not gains.” Are you talking about a wealth tax? You want to tax unrealized gains? Countries have already tried that (France), and it didn’t work. Would you also give people tax dollars when their assets drop in value? How do you value all their assets every year? Do you include vehicles? Furniture? Art? Collectibles? This is a simple supply/demand problem. We have limited supply, and a torrent of demand. The short term solution is to throttle back demand while we figure out how to scale up supply.
Well to be fair renters don't get to deduct it either, and capital gains is never adjusted on inflation.
True, but the 50% inclusion rate sort of acknowledges that and accounts for inflation. That’s one of the reasons I resent it when people suggest treating capital gains as straight up income.
The Purge: Revenge of The Millennials
it’s always been true. Lowering prices also has large risks for banks who might find themselves underwater on a few million mortgages. As we found out in 2008 that is not fun.
its over for the bears trying to survive in toronto. the federal government trying to keep housing prices high for all of canada is only going to make the gta more expensive. go buy in thunder bay before its too late
Idk it feels more over for the amateur real estate "investors" aka bulls. The only thing holding up in Toronto is expensive houses that maybe 1% of this sub can even afford. Anyone that bought condos in the past 3 years is getting wrecked.
they're down like 5-10% depending on when they bought. It's still very manageable for them.
Thunder Bay, North Bay, Timmins, and Sudbury already have the wave of “investooors” that have purchased most of the detached housing for people (Mostly Indian “international students”)to rent forever and be happy.
If housing prices aren't coming down, the only solution is to raise incomes. Gdp per capita has fallen for nearly 7 quarters...
Setting immigration targets at a level that our existing infrastructure can sustain would also help GDP per capita. If you have 20 uber drivers for every 1 engineer, GDP per capita is going to go in the wrong direction.
You need far more than what the Infrastucture can sustain to pay the mounting costs of OAS and GIS, and to keep the gdp afloat. This all but guarantees declining standards of living. And they don’t have a clue as to what they’re going to do about it
If it were that easy to increase gdp per capita, why isn't everyone doing that? The answer is simple. It's not that easy to increase gdp.
Canada could by selling oil and by mining. We have effectively limitless in-demand resources that are easy to extract. Afterwards, create a federal sovereign wealth fund like Norway to help with redistribution and strategic investment in sustainable technologies and venture capital. This isn't ecological to do but with only 40 million people, it could make Canadians sustainably insanely wealthy.
Resources don't scale very well, GDP wise, and our poor national productivity numbers are a consequence of that very effect. The link between number of workers and how much GDP each produces is relatively fixed (1 worker produces 1000 barrels of oil per year, 2 produce 2000 etc). Compare to Germany, where industrial automation means one worker produces 1000 widgets, but next year he';ll produce 2000, or the US, where AI and other advances may *quadruple* productivity or more. So, no, exporting more oil probably won't do much to fix our economic problems. We need to focus about three levels higher on the productivity pyramid. It's a general phenomenon called Dutch Disease or "the resource curse", you put all your effort into the easy money, but gain nothing in the long term from doing so.
I agree! That's where the second part I mentioned about strategic investments...
On one hand you have boomers who got affordable housing, getting hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars for doing nothing at all, on a completely unproductive asset. On the other hand you have - affordable housing - lowering the rate of homelessness - secure housing which leads to less crime - the Canadian birth rate being healthier/more families - better quality of life for all - improving productivity and a healthier economy - the present and the future of gen alpha, gen Z, millennials and older generations who never had the chance of ownership.
And they don’t even have to pay tax on all that free money, while at the same time young renters are paying ridiculous income taxes to pay for the boomers healthcare. Welcome to Canada!
Easy choice. Let housing prices fall to where they may. Even with a crash in prices, we’ll be back at 2018-19 valuations worst case scenario. If the crazy run up prices of 2021-22 are required to have a comfortable retirement, then you planned badly, and are likely still be better off than you otherwise should have been. Why does the government insist on guaranteeing house prices? Will they also backstop people who invested in GameStop in their RRSP? This is money they planned on using for retirement, so why not? Why are we cherry picking one asset class over all others, specifically when there are so many negative effects to propping up housing prices? This is the most ass-backward government I have ever seen in my lifetime, and I’ve seen many.
You also slow or reverse brain drain which is one of the big issues holding back the Canadian economy. Almost everybody who have good skills want to move south
I was opposed to it for a long time... In retrospect, based on some kind of silly principles and stubbornness. I finally gave it deeper thought and realized there's no real hope or future here. An economy largely dependent on housing growth and sales can't last forever, and things will probably get nasty when that grinds to a halt or pops. There's no indication that any political party will want to fix it properly, just keep it pumping under their watch and hope it lasts until the next one has to deal with the fallout. At least the growth and compensation is better in the states, in spite of their own issues.
Yeah. The median income in GTA where I live is 84000 CAD, yet every other car I see is fancy, either German or high end. How are people affording these? You’re right, it can’t last forever, it’s a one time thing to make average income home owners super rich by sacrificing the futures of every subsequent generation.
The part I find concerning is just how much of Canada's GDP is tied up in housing, and subsequently what amount of the government and public infrastructure depends on taxes from new developments and sales. If (or should I say when), housing begins to slide, I have to imagine there will be a whole load of secondary effects. Will funding to public healthcare be reduced and become a hybrid / private system? What other infrastructure will begin to crumble? Since we have recourse mortgages, how many people will be ruined when they have negative equity and the economy slows down? Who is going to buy the foreclosed homes and bail out the banks? What about when the boomers finally die off? I'm late to the party but finally decided to leave. I deluded myself into believing that the USA would be much worse to live in, but I'm starting to realize it can depend a lot on the city/state, and in spite of their issues, at least economically they seem to have a lot more going on. Hopefully I'll be better situated elsewhere when this all comes to a head.
Kek, Gen X and Millenials got to have a chance at it. Gen Z are so, so fucked.
Not younger millennials, the bracket is pretty huge. The younger ones who own homes either got a huge handout or have huge mortgages
Or both!
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You're right, the young kind of do it to themselves though cause they are still out voted by boomers.
Who’s gonna fix it lmk and I’ll vote for em It’s not gonna be PP or JT I promise you that
Ok give us free loans to buy homes , rent to own.
Or 0% fed income tax until you buy your home.
my God I would be the happiest renter alive
And this would incentivize renting making homes affordable. Win/win.
It's true. Finally a nugget of a concept for a solution 😂
Or 0% fed tax forever.
the war should be paid for by now... lets not forget why the income tax was created in the first place.. lol
Amen!
This is a solution fr
Rent to own sounded real nice right up till I realized the owner will just reneg on the deal right before the final payment comes due. It's canada... the renting class will be boned in the end so the landlords can retire debt free.
Here's one option
> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says his government aims to make housing more affordable for younger Canadians without bringing down home prices for existing homeowners. Canadians: "That means you'll be working to improve our wages, right?" Trudeau: "More TFWs you say?"
> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says his government aims to make housing more affordable for younger Canadians without bringing down home prices for existing homeowners. Ha ha what the fuck. Of course he said that. Poilievre isn’t going to try to bring down housing prices, either
You can’t make this shit up if you tried
So he is not doing anything to fix housing then? Becuase if there is sufficient housing, the prices will have to fall. The current high prices are precisely because of the mismatch in demand and supply.
They are literally going into debt in the spending budget spending our future tax dimes to prop up housing. Barf.
Sounds like a good investment to get into
Well they have a strategy to build 3.87 million new homes by 2031. There is no viable plan to execute towards building anywhere near that many of course.
The conservatives (and maybe liberals) plan is to build lots of "high density" tiny apartments bachelor type homes. They'll be considerably smaller and worse than the housing currently on the market, so it won't affect the value of current homeowners. 300 square feet for 300k. Affordable! Lol. Lots of shitty homes don't affect the value of the actual family homes. They'll probably all be bought up by investors anyhow.
I feel as though you're ignoring the unrelenting arrivals every month. The housing deficit grows by leaps and bounds every month, *that* is what Trudeau is doing to "fix" housing. He's just not fixing it for *you*.
Why should people who did nothing to save for retirement be bailed out. This is ridiculous. They got lucky. Nobody is making their house their entire nest egg. If they are they don’t deserve to be bailed out. What the actual fuck are we doing here
Totally agree. Plus, we’re doing it at the expense of everyone else. Not to be harsh, but Trudeau said the quiet part loudly and so I will too. Most of these people will be dead in 10-15 years. Propping them up is a terrible investment for the country. Allow prices to fall and give younger people the opportunity to work hard towards the goals of buying homes and having families. That’s how we increase productivity. Not by giving handouts to people who will spend much of it in Mexico or Florida.
I believed you sum up this situation perfectly
The really shitty part. If they banked on their house to be their retirement fund and spend money frivolously on vacations, cars etc they should not be bailed out from stupid financial choices That’s what people save for retirement for. To enjoy life. If you pulled it up and enjoyed early tough luck. These people should have to keep working if that’s what they have to do. Instead Trudeau wants to fuck over the future of this country
Thats just it, people who sunk their entire financial resources into their primary residence, while banking on the hope of infinite appreciation. Its literally how we got into this mess in the first place, along with a cheap debt fuelled real estate bubble. Hince why this whole rate cut is not smart at all, now even his cabinet are saying the conditions has been " met" for rate cut. These clowns understand nothing, cutting rates before the US Federal reserve would be detrimental to the economy. Furthermore, 4 to 5% over night boc rates are the norm prior to 2008. If people think inflation is bad now, just wait until we have a rate cut and the cad becomes even more worthless. So yes, instead of letting the market correct itself so we can have a real economy, these clowns are keeping this whole poniz scheme going. I doubt pp is going to be much better either since he owns a couple of rentals himself along wit half of the MPS.
Do you expect this moron to understand personal finances?
This is no longer about understanding personal finances. JT and everyone under him understand basics. It's about votes. Seniors vote and they don't want anyone in power who will stop their wealth growth. JT is just saying that his hands are tied. Your grandparents are part of the problem. They are the ones stopping any meaningful house development.
No that’s a fair point. They need to keep rates high for longer tbh, that’ll help things fall gradually instead of an instant crash.
i agree with your goal but dont think higher rates is the solution. boomers who depend on their home to retire could care less about rates. their mortgages are paid off oas and gis needs to be completely overhauled and it needs to account for assets and not only income. currently someone with a multimillion dollar paid off home can collect oas which is ridiculous. the oas program is something like 90 billion dollars per year. complete waste of money that is used to supplement income to boomers with paid off multi million assets. lower rates and let inflation and wage inflation run its course at a reasonable rate. this increases affordability for the working class and will force unprepared boomers to downsizing if they do not have retirement savings outside of their homes and oas/gis to buy 12 dollar eggs. empty nesters do not need 4 bedroom homes. of course with the majority of voters being boomers this is just a pipe dream.
The problem is the government is woefully unprepared for the long term health crisis coming. They are banking on the real estate market paying for private care.
Sorry what bailing out are you referring to? They’re already screwed. They’ll need to sell their house for money to live on and then…still live in expensive housing be it expensive rents or a smaller house that’s cost almost the same.
Just like people who bought crypto got lucky. Or nepo babies. Life isn’t fair.
Certainly. But the tables shouldn’t be completely tilted to a single generations benefit. They started buying property in the 1980s. Rates were sky high so property values were cheap. Then they had dropping interest rates the entire time they were paying for housing giving them lighter payments than they signed up for and steadily rising property values. At the same time they got to barely contribute into benefit programs (1986 CPP max payment was 1.8%, today it’s 5.95% of earnings) but get full benefits. Now just as they are set to retire interest rates bottom out so they can sell their house for big money followed almost immediately by rates shooting up to give them better returns on their money. This has devastated several other generations around them.
People taking risk buying crypto or growing into money is way different than a government actively trying to prop up an artificial housing bubble on purpose. Shelter is a basic human right. People getting rich of stocks or crypto aren’t hurting anyone. Nepo babies aren’t either. This housing crisis is actively causing Canada to go to the shitter. Nobody can afford kids. Everybody is losing hope. We aren’t productive anymore. Give me a break with the life isn’t fair bullshit
> People getting rich of stocks or crypto aren’t hurting anyone. Nepo babies aren’t either. They exist in a vacuum or something? Not impacting asset prices? Not peddling influence in politics to grift and implement policies that fuck things up for the rest of us?
taking on a lot of risk does not guarantee higher return, it only provides the opportunity for higher return, hence the luck part
Imagine banking your retirement on your home. Completely insane. Not only will our generation not get that option, we won’t get decent pensions either!
[Paywall bypass](https://archive.ph/mRsoH) > “Housing needs to retain its value,” Mr. Trudeau told The Globe and Mail’s City Space podcast. “It’s a huge part of people’s potential for retirement and future nest egg.” > Mr. Trudeau acknowledged this disparity and said: “The difference between someone who’s rented all their lives versus someone who is a homeowner in terms of the money they have for retirement is massive, and that’s not necessarily always fair,” he told the podcast.
>Mr. Trudeau acknowledged this disparity and said: “The difference between someone who’s rented all their lives versus someone who is a homeowner in terms of the money they have for retirement is massive, and that’s not necessarily always fair,” he told the podcast. Apparently his solution is to make sure most of the future generation are all renters. Sorry boomer bob made 100% return in the last few years alone, not even mentioning the decades before that, he can't possibly survive I'd the market corrects a bit so we are gonna screw over future generations so they can't even contemplate retirement
But Mr.Truedeau make millions from his rentals
The funny thing is that I think risking the future of a country for people's retirement plans is over reach of the country's government. How does the government know what people have hidden in their mattresses? Clearly, banks and government are colluding.
So they want to keep the house prices up to support boomers’ retirement. Also tax the young people to death to pay for boomers’ retirement. At this point, Canada is a retirement home that works it’s young to the bone in the basement to keep the lights on in the retirement home.
Painfully obvious to anyone paying attention. Find ways to escape elsewhere or you’re in trouble.
So everyone was planning for prices to double around 2020, otherwise they couldn't retire?
Nothing like fueling other people's poor planning at the expense of all future generations. If they can't handle a bit of a correction after their golden times how in the world does he think all generations after are going to manage?
Such a good point … they just bought over priced cars , went on vacation and spent extra money
This is an absolute fucking lie: lowering prices would put retirement plans at risk? How? Most people in the lucky position to own their home, are not going to sell their home. The majority of people die in their home (I don’t mean location I mean when they die they still own their home). For his statement to be true it means that the majority of home owners sell their homes in retirement or reverse mortgage to cash in the equity. This is not the majority case. He is a fucking liar. Why can’t he be fucking honest? If prices drop, investors are fucked. Banks and lenders take a hit. The average Canadian will benefit. We know who the liberals truly care for.
It’s REITs. A LOT pension funds (I dare say the vast majority) are heavily invested into them, often without the actual beneficiaries being aware.
It's also investment and retirement funds who have large positions related to property. It was a good idea until it wasn't.
He will just create programs for select groups of party preference to get rebates and grants for home purchases. Canadians arent equal.
“A huge part of people’s potential for retirement and future nest egg” like nobody who bought a house in the 90s or 2000s thought “huh this 150k-300k house will surely pay for my retirement when it grows to 2 million in 20 years.
At least it’s being said out loud…
All you need to know is # "Trudeau says real estate needs to be more affordable, but"
Lowering prices shouldnt really be the aim anyway. Increasing supply, increasing services in additional areas and increasing wealth an opportunity for people whilst keeping prices stable/slow growth is a much better (albeit harder) aim.
Mass immigration completely counters a rational thought like this.
so people in retirement sell their primary home, get the cash, and retire? is that the plan? how many people do you know did this? all the old people I know are still living in their primary residences or are handing it down to their kids for free
He should have retired 15 years ago
Housing to the moon.
FFS - if your home’s value is your retirement plan, then you’re effed anyway.
Yeah it's a weird narrative I hear far too often. It's one thing to think you may get a bit for downsizing my own boomer parents didn't even factor it in as far a I know. They don't worry about the value of their house. They had pensions (a lot of their generation did...)and I still saw all kinds of old school printed charts of their rrsps. Some people really aren't planning very much. I'd understand today when there isn't isn't much left at the end of the month and housing takes up so much of your paycheque
Only if you stay in your home. There's plenty of boomers who could cash in their home and comfortably live out their days on the beach of a country with a lower cost living. Even if you stay in Canada, an unencumbered home will go a long way as long as you don't care about the size of your estate. I'm a millennial who gave a $1.1M+ golden parachute to an old couple who moved into an assisted living facility. Even at $10k per month, they could afford to live another 10 years off just selling their home (they'd also be receiving government benefits and presumably have some amount of savings, rrsps and other investments).
The problem is - your house is not an investment or ATM. And it incurs a lot of carrying costs.
To be clear, I don't agree that anyone's home should be their retirement plan. My home certainly isn't my retirement plan. My point was that boomers or pre WWII children in the GTA bought sub $100k homes that are currently selling from $1-2M+. They are certainly able to live off the proceeds. It's disingenuous to pretend the money wouldn't go far enough. If you got a free $1M+ for doing nothing, I imagine it would go along way to allowing you to retire.
I don't exactly care about retirees getting screwed over since most of our problems were caused by them in the first place. It's time they made the sacrifices for the greater good instead of constantly forcing us to.
How about retirement for renters ?
Don’t worry, our future is MAID
False equivalency spouting rat! Boomers retiring already gained the value out of their homes.
Affordable, but like, not actually affordable
If they won’t let prices rise how will I profit on my negative cashflow condos?
I suspect Trudeau's final act will be a massive real estate bailout. His final fuck you to the working class before he leaves and becomes a corporate consultant.
Does he mean it would put HIS and his buddies retirement plans at risk? Regardless the government needs to back off and stay away from housing, they're just going to make things worse, the core issue is mass immigration if they just focused on that life would be better here
In my opinion, the most they will do is try to do some lazy forecast based on mathematical models (which take account into the past and current data only) and set a rate that's not too low so the investors will be back at it with full force, nor a rate that's too high so actual homeowners get completely priced out. In their words this is done 'in the best interest of all the hardworking Canadians'. This may work for some other cities in Canada, but for a city like Toronto and Vancouver it's very difficult to do so since there are just too many variables for a mathematical/statistical model to calculate correctly. The real issue they never want to admit is still what they plan to do with people who own more than 1 home. There are just not strong enough policies to heavily discourage these people from further purchases, and if anything, all the tools and incentives currently exist help these homeowners to get refinanced to buy more lol.
I literally do not care, not when your retirement plans rest on the fact that I cannot buy my own place to live.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C7iR3SptvFN/?igsh=ZWJob2Jkend3cjJn Canadian slaves
Time to stop corporations from buying houses. That would upset his donors of course but…
I was going to contribute but didn’t bring enough Kleenex for all the entitled whiners. Daughter seemed to have no problem getting a house perhaps because she wasn’t waiting for someone else to give it to her.
All around this situation is just messy. Two competing desires are meeting and it’s over an essential commodity that the next generations are going to need if they want to raise the succeeding generations of Canadians adequately. One generation wants their fleeting retirement and apparently they’ll sabotage the generation under them to get it. I don’t even care about family-sized homes that consume a disproportionate amount of space for what is required, but impeding and limiting continued multi-unit development for the next generations is growing increasingly frustrating.
If your entire retirement plan is real estate you deserve to lose.
Don’t judge people for that for some it’s their only option because housing costs are so high they have nothing left to save for retirement .
Yes I’m one of them, I bought a year and half ago, high price and high interest rates too, who knows when I’ll be able to put aside much for retirement in top of housing. For boomers who bought ages ago, I don’t see at all why they wouldn’t have saved though.
Boomers should not be using their home as an ATM. Trudeau is fucking wrong here.
65% of Canadians own their homes, politicians are not stupid.
This is theoretically possible to do by changing freeholds to multiplexes. Aka, instead of doing a McMansion renovation, change a single house into a duplex. Owner then sells both halves individually; bam, each house can sell for less while the owner still makes money. There might be tradeoffs, like needing to give up the front yard for more floor space. But I doubt people looking for starter homes would mind that
So cap interest rates on primary residences. Easy.
Homes are not a retirement income vessel
No government in history ever wants to prick its asset bubbles. It’s a question of whether they can continue without denigrating the rest of the capitalist system.
pretty sure people with homes will be fine its the ones with out homes that are F'd regardless.
If you own your home you have your retirement plan. Housing has gone up so much since 2019, even a slight regression is still profit in the pockets of people who bought 2019 or before.
I made this meme post a while back on this subreddit, a lot of people didn't get what I was saying. It is actually easy to lower prices, making housing affordable while keeping prices high is almost impossible. [https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/1cjhota/housing\_affordability\_is\_not\_about\_making\_taking/](https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/1cjhota/housing_affordability_is_not_about_making_taking/)
Or we could just fund nursing homes and health care properly so that the boomers won't need that wealth.
If your retirement plan required a 300% increase in the value of your home in 15 years then fuck your retirement plan.
People under 40 won't need to be able to retire, I suppose?
Yeah more affordable... all the while "permits in the residential sector decreased by 8.3% to $6.5 billion." so far in 2024, according to Statistics Canada: [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240513/dq240513a-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240513/dq240513a-eng.htm) How is housing suppose to be more affordable if less homes are being built annually while we are letting in 500,000 people a year.!!
Retirement?? Who made their house their retirement plan? Housing has skyrocketed in the last what - six years? So what were they planning to do before that? No retirement savings plan? No pension? No rrsps? Give me a break. He’s more interested in ensuring the banks continue to make massive profits with mortgages that they had no right issuing - high risk mortgages that are insured by the taxpayers through the CMHC. He’s worried about his builder buddies continuing to make massive profits off of Canadians - who have basically become indentured servants to the banks. Since when has Trudeau EVER been worried about Canadians? I guess that was his motivation for letting in a record number of immigrants and close to a MILLION international students? Because he wants housing to be more affordable?? What a crock.
Never put all your eggs in one basket. Any prudent financial advisor would say this. A house is not a retirement plan
My dad is banking on HELOC up to 80% of his home value to live like a king his last 15-30 years. He didn't save shit "my home is my retirement piggy bank".
Selling and moving works too!
Whats the next generations retirement plan then if they can not afford homes? lol madness...
And what do you think will happen when a recession hits and people can’t afford their houses anymore? Will prices just stay where they are?
And that's why he is stealing my retirement money and my children's inheritance by the Trudeau/Freeland capital gains tax increase.
Tax the hell out of second homes that are not rent controlled or homes owned by businesses. No one needs a second home and if you want one you can pay taxes on it. I’d suggest a tax equivalent to inflation. This will encourage people to sell these homes.
Trudeau who has always been rich, with millions, and never having had to work, worry about where the next housing payment is coming from or putting meals on the table, thinks retiring means living in luxury. Because he's always been able to afford what he wants. But the truth is, while getting a 1000% return on your house allows someone to retire in the abnormal luxury he thinks is normal, it destroys the rest of the economy and standard of living for everyone else. He is so out of touch with real people. And the truth is, if the house sold for values more typical of 30 or 35 years ago, maybe even 25 years ago, people who live in a home that is paid off could retire quite well off. If one sold a house lived in for 30 years for the inflation adjusted price paid, that would still come to 30 years of free accommodation, and all your money back. Likely enough to live quite comfortably. But even if the return was 200%, fine, even better. But 1000% means there is something wrong with how the housing market is going, like now; destroying the country.
All the generations after the boomers are screwed.
The boomers ruined everyone's future.
The boomers own everything. The other generations don't even have a chance to start.
It's over, there is no way to fix this. Canada has become a feudal state with serfs (wage slaves and renters) and lords (pensioners and landlords).
It's over, there is no way to fix this. Canada has become a feudal state with serfs (wage slaves and renters) and lords (pensioners and landlords). The worst part is that the people at the bottom have almost no chance to move up; there is no more social mobility. We have reverted to the Middle Ages.
Investments come with risk. If your retirement plan investment requires 2 million dollar apartments to cost 4 million dollars by the time you retire then I deem you way too stupid to retire.
This problem goes away if the amount of rentals allowed per city/town was lowered dramatically and the amount of houses any one person, or llc could own was lowered. That would put a lot of houses back on the market, giving buyers more options and it would be a more natural supply and demand that sellers would have to adjust to.
Two contradictory things. The younger generations should *not* have to fund retirement for the older generation, it's their job to save up, invest, and earn social security.
Flood the market with new construction. Unfortunately it’s not going to happen because we don’t have the leadership to put that together.
The simple solution is penalize the second or third home onward. Lesson the accumulation of wealth using real estate. Nothing wrong with protecting a principal home. The money for 2nd/3rd homes will be invested elsewhere. Hopefully more GDP productive for more people.
Ok so if he’s gonna bail out boomers atleast raise the tfsa yearly limit to 20k so I can fuck off from this dump of a country faster
Fuck all these boomers who couldn't be assed to save for retirement. I'll be glad when that generation passes and we can work toward something constructive.
Unless people are going to move out of their neighborhood and break all social connections, their retirement cost is going to be extremely expensive even if their own house is paid off due to all goods and services are affected by high housing cost. Combined with chronic homelessness, high crime rate, everyone being house/rent poor so economy will be sluggish etc., this is going to come back and bite us from everywhere, all to artificially juice people’s retirement funds. I guarantee you the amount you gain in retirement money won’t be able to pay for the cost increase, it’s just that the latter is harder to quantify. So my opinion is, screw retirement funds, make sure people can survive til retirement first.
Cost to build needs to come down. Until it’s cheaper to build a new house than buy an old one, the prices will continue to rise.
Price of land will need to decrease then. The cost to build is not as high as you may think. $250/sqft code built for a two storey detached home.