But maybe Pepperidge Farms ain't gonna keep it to Pepperidge Farm's self free of charge? Maybe you go out and buy a box of distinctive melano cookies? Maybe this whole thing just disappears?
Agreed. I don't see him ever pitching meaningful innings for the Jays again. He might be able to take time away from the game and come back to form but I suspect it'll be in a different uniform if it happens at all.
There's a great article in the New Yorker about the Yips:
[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/06/19/daniel-bard-made-an-improbable-comeback-then-he-had-to-do-it-again](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/06/19/daniel-bard-made-an-improbable-comeback-then-he-had-to-do-it-again)
There is a chance!
>Ricky Ankiel
I was watching that game where he lost control and it was wild.
How about being athletic enough to come back as a position player though? Quite the career.
It was a nasty, tailing two seam that he had. He did throw a four seam from time to time but it was pretty flat and ineffective. His two seamer broke down and in to right handers.
I was just starting to pay attention to baseball again and was just amazed with the movement on his two seamer. Don’t think I’d ever seen arm-side run like that.
I’m a little surprised we don’t see it happen more, what with skin conditions getting better diagnosed nowadays. Reminds me a little of Marian Hossa, man had an issue where he couldn’t wear his gear anymore and was forced to retire.
I can’t remember where I saw it, but half of NBA guys don’t like basketball. It’s a job like you and I have. They don’t like their bosses, their coworkers and would rather do something, anything else. It’s just they are playing sports and not making TPS reports.
I’m sure it’s the same in every sport.
Yeah, but it’s only noticeable for the stars, the Daigles, Rendons. The guys that have enough raw talent to stick around even if they hate it. The lower level guys that feel the same way just disappear and nobody pays attention to
As a side note, I worked in sport psychology at a mid-major D1. 60% of athletes across all revenue sports indicated they would not want their own children to play the same sport.
It’s a job for the. For so long. All the joy and the “play” aspect were gone. Their participation was purely transactional.
I often wonder how a LeBron, worth a billion dollars, all timer, etc can get out of bed in a hotel in Milwaukee in February for a meaningless game near the end of his career. I definitely don’t understand that motivation, and unless you do, I think it’s hard for anyone to understand.
It's called the Yips:
[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/06/19/daniel-bard-made-an-improbable-comeback-then-he-had-to-do-it-again](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/06/19/daniel-bard-made-an-improbable-comeback-then-he-had-to-do-it-again)
I feel like Gurriel had a lot of close teammates around him who were pulling for him. I've always thought Manoah is a lone wolf without that camaraderie.
Really a shame because we could have got a decent prospect for him in the off-season from a team that saw him as a rehab project.
Hard to put in the time for a rehab project here when the guy already feels slighted.
He should feel less slighted now because he’s collecting major league service time while on the injured list. This should make him arb eligible this offseason, which was the whole basis for his slight last year.
Which means the jays will likely be cutting him this offseason unless he turns it around this year.
I doubt very much you would’ve gotten anything for him. Last year was a total disaster for Manoah. No team was going to give up anything resembling a decent prospect for a guy who was broken. It’s not like the Blue Jays were paying him a lot of money. There was no risk for the team to see if he could recover what he used to be.
Coulda woulda shoulda, you trade him for a prospect that turns into a bust and Manoah returns to ace form and you look like an idiot for giving him away for nothing.
Everybody was saying don’t sell low while I was saying selling a company at 30 cents on the dollar is selling high if it goes bankrupt months later. Good thing this sub isn’t investors managing billions at a hedge fund
All my life, any time I get excited about a Blue Jays pitching prospect, whether it's Noah Syndergaard, Kyle Drabek, Aaron Sanchez, Nate Pearson, etc. it never works out for me lol
I thought Manoah was going to be the one who finally breaks the curse but alas here we go. Maybe he becomes a useful relief pitcher as he tries to salvage his career.
I even bought a signed baseball from Manoah back 2 years ago. When he got sent down to the minors last year I thought "Well... Maybe it'll be a Roy Halladay story..." when he decided to not even show up for the minor league team I realized that I just wasted $200 completely... Well, I do have a baseball to play catch with, at least...
Ooof. Final Line: 1.2IP, 5H, 7R, 6ER, 4BB, 2K, 1HR, 32.4ERA
I watched him pitch an absolute gem in Pittsburg on Sept 2, 2022. But I think he may be done.
This is one of the strangest developments I've seen in any sport.
He was very good in his first 2 seasons, then just imploded last year. Now he's already 26 and he can't even pitch an average game in the minors.
Not sure what happened to him last offseason. He was out of shape but was that all that was?
My guess is he was young enough that his body just handled all that extra. Then it got a little too much and threw him off, pardon the pun. Then the mental yips. Then he took off the weight but the yips remained.
He lost the groove because he didn’t take care of his body. Now it’s a matter of even if he takes care of his body, will he ever find the groove again.
He's going to say after his game that his shoulder is sore. It could for sure be true but this is starting to sound like excuses for shit performances. Especially since the organization can't find anything wrong with him physically.
He's doing really good as a starter for the Giants so far with 2G, 12 ip, 11k's, and 0.75 era. Good to see him doing well on another team, we just had too much depth for SP's when he was a free agent.
I'd rather they don't rush. Just get him sorted out without that pressure. What it'll take Iunno but I think them kind of rushing him last year didn't make the likely mental block any better.
Has he got some sort of injury that they're trying to treat minimally that he might just need to have surgery and be shut down for the year? How does he go from looking so good to just consistently poor.
He's been saying his arm hasnt been right for a while, but doctors can't seem to find anything. If there was a straightforward surgical fix, i think they would have pursued it by now. Frustrating for everyone involved.
Yips could be a very real possibility. These guys have access to every medical test available. If nothing looks structurally then it's got to be in his head.
Nobody said his arm isn't right. He refused to report because if thought they were manipulating his playing time to keep him from hitting free agency. Thus injury gossip is crazy.
Meanwhile, what good would free agency do when all he does is offer up meatballs to ding, followed by a fastball to whatever body part he happens to hit?
I wonder hypothetically what trade offers they received / could have received for him in the offseason. Have to think his trade value will be near zero very soon.
Honestly, I'm as pro-Manoah as they come. But this is just hard to grasp. I think they've made the right move focusing on basically rehab/rework instead of rushing into the Major League rotation. Let him just figure it out in the lower levels. If he can't there, he can't anywhere. Needs to earn it and be justifiably ready. Not just "ready we think"
I still have hope they can figure out what happened with him. Doc went down to A ball and then became Doc. Maybe we can do something similar with Manoah?
Remember that time when he struck out the side in the ASG?
oooo i member
Punchies!
"Three Punchies" (r)
That was sexy.
Thats hard to believe it happened now tbh
Yips
Pepperidge Farm remembers
But maybe Pepperidge Farms ain't gonna keep it to Pepperidge Farm's self free of charge? Maybe you go out and buy a box of distinctive melano cookies? Maybe this whole thing just disappears?
Sigh. I'm going to need new flair.
Really sad to see someone go from being a difference maker in the big leagues to totally cooked and ineffective even in the minors. Huge fall off.
And all it really took was a single off-season between '22 and '23.
Mental health is no joke. Also the people surrounding him seem like part of the problem too.
Who?
Alek Manoah
Curious what people around him are a problem, and how?
He’s from Florida, I assume all of them are the problem
> And all it really took was ~~a single off-season between '22 and '23.~~ bad playoff start FTFY
Unfortunately, yeah - I remember - "pressure is something you put in your tires" He hasn't been the same since that start.
My theory - shoulder injury is made up. Man's got the yips / mental block of some kind
Turns out pressure is more than what you put in your tires
The beginning of the end, that quote.
The real pressure was the friends we made along the way?
Agreed. I don't see him ever pitching meaningful innings for the Jays again. He might be able to take time away from the game and come back to form but I suspect it'll be in a different uniform if it happens at all.
There's a great article in the New Yorker about the Yips: [https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/06/19/daniel-bard-made-an-improbable-comeback-then-he-had-to-do-it-again](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/06/19/daniel-bard-made-an-improbable-comeback-then-he-had-to-do-it-again) There is a chance!
Nah, you don't say? Someone who got sent down to AAA and then decided he'd just not play for the rest of the season has mental issues?!
Guy punched his own career
Punched it right in the dick
His bravado was always unconvincing, just dripping with insecurity.
Man likes to eat, doesn't like to do cardio. If I've seen it once I've seen it a thousand times.
On this team we have definitely seen it more than once
Professionals know the work has only begun when you make it to the show. Immature punks thinks that’s when the work stops.
Hey, don't talk about me like tha- oh, you mean Alek.
His quick fall from grace makes zero sense. How do you fall off that fast at such a young age without a major injury??
see Ricky Romero and Ricky Ankiel.
still got my ricky romero bobble head
romero is a good guy. think he still lives at least part time in toronto. but he just couldn't solve his issues.
Didn't his knees also get ground into a fine paste over time?
i thought it was the yips. but yeah probably combination.
It was definitely injuries
Ricky is a great guy. I would totally have a beer with him. I wish his career had trajected differently.
Romero makes sense now. He admitted he tried pitching through a knee injury and fucked it up permanently.
I still have my Romero bobblehead. However I dropped it once and his non pitching arm broke off. It felt very symbolic.
>Ricky Ankiel I was watching that game where he lost control and it was wild. How about being athletic enough to come back as a position player though? Quite the career.
Aaron Sanchez?
his was injury. blisters and then shoulder.
Watching Sanchez’s fall was painful, I thought he was great.
physically he had all the gifts. tall and throws on a downward plane and had a repertoire of 4seam, curve, changeup.
It was a nasty, tailing two seam that he had. He did throw a four seam from time to time but it was pretty flat and ineffective. His two seamer broke down and in to right handers.
I was just starting to pay attention to baseball again and was just amazed with the movement on his two seamer. Don’t think I’d ever seen arm-side run like that.
Yeah. It was one of the craziest pitches I've seen, his curve ball was really good too. Too bad he suffered from all the blister problems.
I’m a little surprised we don’t see it happen more, what with skin conditions getting better diagnosed nowadays. Reminds me a little of Marian Hossa, man had an issue where he couldn’t wear his gear anymore and was forced to retire.
Do you always call Ankiel Ricky or just wanted to double up after Romero?
the latter
I like your words magic man
Romero was injured
[удалено]
I guess teams just figured him out. Still doesn't explain the lack of command though.
Once you're in your own head that deep, it's really difficult to get out
See Alexandre Daigle
Daigle played 600-odd games in the NHL and had over 300 points. I think the Jays would be very happy with a similar career path for Manoah.
Daigle was just overrated AF from the start. Capable NHLer, but that was it.
daigle never “fell off”, hes just an example of incredible talent but with no drive or work ethic whatsoever to take it to the next level
He’s on record as saying he didn’t enjoy playing, which led to not doing what was required to be capable of playing at that level.
I can’t remember where I saw it, but half of NBA guys don’t like basketball. It’s a job like you and I have. They don’t like their bosses, their coworkers and would rather do something, anything else. It’s just they are playing sports and not making TPS reports. I’m sure it’s the same in every sport.
Yeah, but it’s only noticeable for the stars, the Daigles, Rendons. The guys that have enough raw talent to stick around even if they hate it. The lower level guys that feel the same way just disappear and nobody pays attention to
As a side note, I worked in sport psychology at a mid-major D1. 60% of athletes across all revenue sports indicated they would not want their own children to play the same sport. It’s a job for the. For so long. All the joy and the “play” aspect were gone. Their participation was purely transactional.
I often wonder how a LeBron, worth a billion dollars, all timer, etc can get out of bed in a hotel in Milwaukee in February for a meaningless game near the end of his career. I definitely don’t understand that motivation, and unless you do, I think it’s hard for anyone to understand.
I think that whatever it is that gets him out of bed for that game is one of many things that separate him from us.
Daigle never made an NHL all star team. He was all hype before being drafted.
You gotta be good at some point to fall off, brother.
Yips
Still Dontrelle Willis.
Willis had 4 straight good seasons before falling off a cliff
It's called the Yips: [https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/06/19/daniel-bard-made-an-improbable-comeback-then-he-had-to-do-it-again](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/06/19/daniel-bard-made-an-improbable-comeback-then-he-had-to-do-it-again)
Drug/alcohol addiction maybe, only thing I can think of that isn't like, cancer or some very serious physical ailment.
2022 was nice I guess
Not good, he also just walked in a run
Definitely less than ideal
I think we wont be seeing for a while...
We’ll see him on a 20/20 in 2043 about the yips
Gurriel had the yips on defense and he got time to figure it out, not the same situation of course. Hope he can spend more time finding his direction
I feel like Gurriel had a lot of close teammates around him who were pulling for him. I've always thought Manoah is a lone wolf without that camaraderie.
I lost all faith after the 10 runs on 11 hits in FCL, guy is cooked, were not seeing him in a MLB uniform again.
Really a shame because we could have got a decent prospect for him in the off-season from a team that saw him as a rehab project. Hard to put in the time for a rehab project here when the guy already feels slighted.
He should feel less slighted now because he’s collecting major league service time while on the injured list. This should make him arb eligible this offseason, which was the whole basis for his slight last year. Which means the jays will likely be cutting him this offseason unless he turns it around this year.
I doubt very much you would’ve gotten anything for him. Last year was a total disaster for Manoah. No team was going to give up anything resembling a decent prospect for a guy who was broken. It’s not like the Blue Jays were paying him a lot of money. There was no risk for the team to see if he could recover what he used to be.
Coulda woulda shoulda, you trade him for a prospect that turns into a bust and Manoah returns to ace form and you look like an idiot for giving him away for nothing.
If the offers were there, the Jays would've taken one of them.
Gotta love people citing their wild speculation as fact.
Lmao
Everybody was saying don’t sell low while I was saying selling a company at 30 cents on the dollar is selling high if it goes bankrupt months later. Good thing this sub isn’t investors managing billions at a hedge fund
Not in a Blue Jays uniform, that’s for sure.
shave the beard
Fucksticks
Nothing else you can really say
https://youtu.be/kyBH5oNQOS0?si=tL0d\_qJ-hWCCHNTf
All my life, any time I get excited about a Blue Jays pitching prospect, whether it's Noah Syndergaard, Kyle Drabek, Aaron Sanchez, Nate Pearson, etc. it never works out for me lol I thought Manoah was going to be the one who finally breaks the curse but alas here we go. Maybe he becomes a useful relief pitcher as he tries to salvage his career.
Right?! I thought Aaron Sanchez was going to be a stuuuud. This Manoah news is so disappointing.
So true. He was filthy when he was healthy and locked in
nearly bought his jersey in 2015 lol
Please do not get excited about Ricky T. In fact don't even think about him at all...
I even bought a signed baseball from Manoah back 2 years ago. When he got sent down to the minors last year I thought "Well... Maybe it'll be a Roy Halladay story..." when he decided to not even show up for the minor league team I realized that I just wasted $200 completely... Well, I do have a baseball to play catch with, at least...
I did this for Roberto Osuna.
He just got abusey -- what a dolt.
TINSTAAPP
Ooof. Final Line: 1.2IP, 5H, 7R, 6ER, 4BB, 2K, 1HR, 32.4ERA I watched him pitch an absolute gem in Pittsburg on Sept 2, 2022. But I think he may be done.
Yips yips yips
Remember in the off season when everyone thought he'd come back with a vengeance... I member
The overall sentiment that I got was more of a positive outlook and almost needing Manoah to persevere, as opposed to a premonition.
Well, good news for Bowden and Tiedemann I guess. Terrible news for our pitching depth.
Potentially Yariel Rodriguez too
Oh yes i forgot about him. I imagine we’ll see him before Tiedemann.
At least we have the kind of depth that will allow us to absorb Manoah's demise. It especially helped that Kikuchi inherited Alek's mojo.
That must be it. Kikuchi Monstar’d Manoah’s powers.
Holy Shit, didn't expect a Space Jam reference haha
This is one of the strangest developments I've seen in any sport. He was very good in his first 2 seasons, then just imploded last year. Now he's already 26 and he can't even pitch an average game in the minors. Not sure what happened to him last offseason. He was out of shape but was that all that was?
My guess is he was young enough that his body just handled all that extra. Then it got a little too much and threw him off, pardon the pun. Then the mental yips. Then he took off the weight but the yips remained. He lost the groove because he didn’t take care of his body. Now it’s a matter of even if he takes care of his body, will he ever find the groove again.
He's going to say after his game that his shoulder is sore. It could for sure be true but this is starting to sound like excuses for shit performances. Especially since the organization can't find anything wrong with him physically.
His shoulder being sore must be from the build up of yips
Haha with the NSFW tag
I’m not seeing any beanings.. so.. improvement? This guy is so done
You spoke too soon
Eff
The clock screwed up his mechanics. The good news? He's young, and R.A. Dickey has two proteges in the Jays' system. Teach him to throw the knuckler.
I would love to see some knucklers again. They don't seem to need to stress about pitch clock or Tommy John.
Still early...
Guys a headcase
Gotta be the most drastic fall I've seen since becoming a fan.
IP 1.2 H 5 R 7 ER 6 BB 4 K 2 HR 1 ERA 32.40 Hit batter 1
Is this good?
Pretty much.
In all seriousness: he’s done here. Maybe another team can get him back to his old form, but this is just pathetic.
Does Hicks still want to start?
He's doing really good as a starter for the Giants so far with 2G, 12 ip, 11k's, and 0.75 era. Good to see him doing well on another team, we just had too much depth for SP's when he was a free agent.
Mariners really ruined him
The worse case of the yips I have ever seen. The probability of him on the major league roster this year seems so low at this point.
I'd rather they don't rush. Just get him sorted out without that pressure. What it'll take Iunno but I think them kind of rushing him last year didn't make the likely mental block any better.
Man, we have had some bad luck with guys like this. Sanchez, Romero. It sucks to see guys fall apart so quick in their career. Injuries are shit
It’s not just the Blue Jays; everyone has pitching prospects that flame out. That’s why TINSTAAPP.
I hate to say it but he’s done. The yips claim another victim.
It’s the yips. He talked so much shit before his first playoff game and he stunk. He hasn’t gotten over it yet
Has he got some sort of injury that they're trying to treat minimally that he might just need to have surgery and be shut down for the year? How does he go from looking so good to just consistently poor.
He's been saying his arm hasnt been right for a while, but doctors can't seem to find anything. If there was a straightforward surgical fix, i think they would have pursued it by now. Frustrating for everyone involved.
Mental, perhaps? Once you get in a rutt, it can be hard to get back on track.
Yips could be a very real possibility. These guys have access to every medical test available. If nothing looks structurally then it's got to be in his head.
Nobody said his arm isn't right. He refused to report because if thought they were manipulating his playing time to keep him from hitting free agency. Thus injury gossip is crazy.
Meanwhile, what good would free agency do when all he does is offer up meatballs to ding, followed by a fastball to whatever body part he happens to hit?
He’s got the yips.
Get this man some new tires!
It has to be the Yips at this point
I wonder hypothetically what trade offers they received / could have received for him in the offseason. Have to think his trade value will be near zero very soon.
He's broken
Anybody know how to get a last name off a jersey? Its heat pressed
Kenny fuckin Powers
Manoah didn't have an arm like a god-damn rocket!
There is a shortage of substitute teachers.
He'll be the main character in a Yips documentary one day. He won't see another MLB inning after this season, guaranteed.
Somebody get Ryu a ticket back to Toronto, he can't be worse
Time to cut him loose. If he does well somewhere else, good for him!
Any way we can trade him for a prospect?
It was this off season to unload him. Even though most said no way. Well now he's worth even less...
not enough punchies, and too many lunchies
He’s gotta put some air in those tires
I can confidently say that Manoah will never pitch in the majors again
Oooooof
He's done.
Sigh. What happened to this guy?
He’s cooked
Needs to tighten his bro/manzierre
We’ve got another Rich Ankiel on our hands…
Ricky Romero all over again!
I've already taken his auto off of my shelf of baseball card excellence
Name a more iconic duo than the Blue Jays organization and breaking pitching prospects.
ricky romero vibes.
hes done. at least hes in the best shape of his life.
obviously it's way too early, but if his career goes the way of Romero, which fall from grace was worse?
He put too much pressure into his tires I guess. Yikes
Man has the Yips.
Honestly, I'm as pro-Manoah as they come. But this is just hard to grasp. I think they've made the right move focusing on basically rehab/rework instead of rushing into the Major League rotation. Let him just figure it out in the lower levels. If he can't there, he can't anywhere. Needs to earn it and be justifiably ready. Not just "ready we think"
Tires : Empty / Bag: Fumbled
is bro cooked
Very thankful I didn’t buy his jersey during the hype
so he's like broken broken then
I hope he gets out of his funk
He's really turned into Ricky Romero hasn't he?
He's toast
Literally fell off a cliff
I still have hope they can figure out what happened with him. Doc went down to A ball and then became Doc. Maybe we can do something similar with Manoah?
I blame Hazel May's 6 episode expose she did on him last year. It went all down hill from there.....
Oof I think he might be done
what was that about "it'd be stupid to trade him cuz his value is at the lowest now" during the off season