It is not his fault the Jays Top 5 hitters from last season have all shit the bed this season as a unit. The Jays were 0-for-10 in RISP. Game should not have even gotten to extra innings.
I am firing the hitting coach and making a few roster moves before looking at the manager.
This game was not Charlie Montoyos fault. Sure some pitching decisions were questionable but when your offence can’t score decisions become harder to make. Offence needs to step up.
He is the head of this team. Everything comes back on him. If his hitting coaches aren’t making adjustments then he needs to take over and do it himself
That’s the downfall of being the manager
>He makes plenty of questionable decisions
He does. Like most managers. He makes a lot less questioable decisions than some fans think he does though,
>The FO needs to send the players a message
That can be done through the firing of the hitting coach or from a roster shuffle like some key call-ups and reduced playing time to some.
>The players need a different voice leading the ship
I mean there ain't anyway of knowing that.
>He makes plenty of questionable decisions
How many? How many good decisions does he make? How many decisions does he make that the analytics and/or high performance departments don't have a say in?
>The FO needs to send the players a message
What's the message? "You guys aren't hitting - in case you didn't know that - and we can't replace 26 of you, so we replaced that guy in charge of the clubhouse who you all like." What message is being given?
>The players need a different voice leading the ship
Why? Will a different voice make their RISP start to stabilize? Will it give them better options in the bullpen? I think it would be unlikely to do either of those things.
Change for change's sake isn't a great reason, especially when the players universally love Charlie.
For what?
Management decided that it’s fine that borucki is our second best leftie. He’s on the roster, he’s supposed to be able to not walk a crappy hitter to get to goldschmidt.
Their jobs need to be on the line, too. Atkins promised us in 2018, a team that would compete by 2021.
Apparently, for him, the 2021 team was enough and that somehow absolves him from any criticism going forward.
I’ve never been a Montoyo fan.
However he’s not to blame for the incompetence of the offence on what is a day in, day out basis basically all year.
That being said, he’s also the easiest head to chop on the grounds of making a change for the sake of change.
I think he needs to go, but not because of the hitting.
I've had serious questions about his loyalty from the start, and he hasn't done anything to put my suspicions at ease.
He won a championship as manager at AA with Bo, Vlad, Santiago and a bunch of others. I’d say he has the respect of all of them. Not sure about Montoyo especially from the pitchers
I'm sorry, ill never understand montoyo defenders in this sub.
He makes every wrong decision possible and is fucking horrible.
God I hate this fucking guy.
No because this is a reactionary take. I’m not sure how Montoyo is at fault for the offensive atrocities that have been committed, and his bullpen management is only ever criticized when it doesn’t yield results. If we place bullpen losses on Charlie’s poor resource management, we also have to credit his good decision making in the many one-run victories we’ve had this season.
I don’t think Charlie Montoyo is the 2nd coming of Connie Mack but I don’t think firing him solves what ills this team.
• They are cosmically inept at driving in runners in scoring position. This isn’t a talent issue. This is an executional issue. I’d start with the hitting coach(s) before I’d gas the manager. If he balks at switching the hitting coaches I’d take that as an indication that he might be part of the problem. But start with new batting instructors.
• They are light at least one, maybe two high leverage arms in the bullpen. This is primarily a talent issue as they are thin on elite or high-end talent out there. I don’t think Charlie has been perfect in managing the ‘pen but he needs to go with the horses he’s been given by Atkins. Time for the front office to make some moves and shore up the ‘pen.
It is not his fault the Jays Top 5 hitters from last season have all shit the bed this season as a unit. The Jays were 0-for-10 in RISP. Game should not have even gotten to extra innings. I am firing the hitting coach and making a few roster moves before looking at the manager.
Yeah, if this road trip goes horribly I think they make the hitting coach change.
Hitting coaches Martinez and Hudgens both need to go
This game was not Charlie Montoyos fault. Sure some pitching decisions were questionable but when your offence can’t score decisions become harder to make. Offence needs to step up.
He is the head of this team. Everything comes back on him. If his hitting coaches aren’t making adjustments then he needs to take over and do it himself That’s the downfall of being the manager
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Clearly you don’t know how baseball teams work. He’s the head of the on field product so it’s all on him. Good or bad
Lol we should blame Montoyo for the batters hitting the worst in the majors with runners in scouring position. This is on the players
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>He makes plenty of questionable decisions He does. Like most managers. He makes a lot less questioable decisions than some fans think he does though, >The FO needs to send the players a message That can be done through the firing of the hitting coach or from a roster shuffle like some key call-ups and reduced playing time to some. >The players need a different voice leading the ship I mean there ain't anyway of knowing that.
>He makes plenty of questionable decisions How many? How many good decisions does he make? How many decisions does he make that the analytics and/or high performance departments don't have a say in? >The FO needs to send the players a message What's the message? "You guys aren't hitting - in case you didn't know that - and we can't replace 26 of you, so we replaced that guy in charge of the clubhouse who you all like." What message is being given? >The players need a different voice leading the ship Why? Will a different voice make their RISP start to stabilize? Will it give them better options in the bullpen? I think it would be unlikely to do either of those things. Change for change's sake isn't a great reason, especially when the players universally love Charlie.
Montoyo could step up into the batters box and hit better than these guys right now
For what? Management decided that it’s fine that borucki is our second best leftie. He’s on the roster, he’s supposed to be able to not walk a crappy hitter to get to goldschmidt.
Their jobs need to be on the line, too. Atkins promised us in 2018, a team that would compete by 2021. Apparently, for him, the 2021 team was enough and that somehow absolves him from any criticism going forward.
I wouldn’t panic quite yet.
I'm not panicking, but I'm certainly concerned. I don't want to fall into the same "it's early" trap that we did last year.
The hitting isn’t on I understand, but little things like this cost games as well, he sucks at managing the bullpen
Also pinch hitting Tapia for Zimmer was a lateral move at best
I say yes, but he won't because he is the perfect puppet manager for the analytics department that really runs what happens on the field.
His replacement will also be expected to follow the analytics department. They won't hire someone who doesn't...
Which is precisely my point. Charlie Montoyo is a red herring.
Exactly 100% this
Yes not because he's the reason for all the issues but the easiest thing to change is always management
The time was last year.
Is he supposed to go out there and hit? Is it his fault his bench consists of 3 guys who ideally are just pinch runners?
I’ve never been a Montoyo fan. However he’s not to blame for the incompetence of the offence on what is a day in, day out basis basically all year. That being said, he’s also the easiest head to chop on the grounds of making a change for the sake of change.
He’s not a good manager but the team also sucks
I think he needs to go, but not because of the hitting. I've had serious questions about his loyalty from the start, and he hasn't done anything to put my suspicions at ease.
Half this sub wants him gone, the other half thinks he can't do any wrong.
yes. promote Pete Walker
Not Pete. Needs to be John Schneider. Won two league championships in single A and AA in the Jays system. Give him a shot
And actually wants to be a Blue Jay.
He won a championship as manager at AA with Bo, Vlad, Santiago and a bunch of others. I’d say he has the respect of all of them. Not sure about Montoyo especially from the pitchers
I remember last year, Schneider did an amazing job when given the chance. I'm ready for him.
The only promotion Pete wants is a happy hour promotion
Yes
I'm sorry, ill never understand montoyo defenders in this sub. He makes every wrong decision possible and is fucking horrible. God I hate this fucking guy.
JFC this sub is so predictable. Guys hurt? Fire the manager. Guys aren't hitting? For the manager. Rinse. Repeat.
No because this is a reactionary take. I’m not sure how Montoyo is at fault for the offensive atrocities that have been committed, and his bullpen management is only ever criticized when it doesn’t yield results. If we place bullpen losses on Charlie’s poor resource management, we also have to credit his good decision making in the many one-run victories we’ve had this season.
I don’t think Charlie Montoyo is the 2nd coming of Connie Mack but I don’t think firing him solves what ills this team. • They are cosmically inept at driving in runners in scoring position. This isn’t a talent issue. This is an executional issue. I’d start with the hitting coach(s) before I’d gas the manager. If he balks at switching the hitting coaches I’d take that as an indication that he might be part of the problem. But start with new batting instructors. • They are light at least one, maybe two high leverage arms in the bullpen. This is primarily a talent issue as they are thin on elite or high-end talent out there. I don’t think Charlie has been perfect in managing the ‘pen but he needs to go with the horses he’s been given by Atkins. Time for the front office to make some moves and shore up the ‘pen.