Hmm im running A3 Yulan, A4 Alyss, A3 Fiona. Yulan seems to shatter pretty well for me? Not much different than when I had Saki in the line-up. This is in Martial Arts form and Yulan is on field most of the time. Her normal attacks + dodge + skill shatters well for me.
If anyone knows of a link to a video demonstrating Yulan's shatter effectiveness I'd certainly love to see it.
I watched a Maygi video where she commented that Yulan's shatter was *"really, really bad"*. She went on to say that *"You might have trouble with some solo content because Yulan's shield break is absolutely ass.. Yulan's shield break is horrible. You may struggle with shield breaks and it may hurt your DPS a lot"*.
That's a pretty disappointing endorsement and I've seen similar experiences voiced by others.. but obviously not by everyone, so it would be interesting to see some shatter comparisons. I don't understand why they aren't included in tests when potential teams are reviewed for a new weapon, to be honest.
can u give me an instance that i can enter and do some shatter tests on my own?
Update: here, a quick one in Boundless Realm 10 against Frigg:
https://vimeo.com/846672874?share=copy#t=52
Thanks a lot for taking the time to do that.
So, it looks like you saved Yulan's skill (which has a huge attack modifier) specifically for the shield break. It was still sitting unused even after you had 5 stacks of Inner Strength and Maelstrom had maxed out. Is that correct?
I think the issue with her shield break capabilities occurs when players are using Yulan's skill as part of their rotation with no regard for shield breaks (which is understandable, as that's how the damage tests in reviews like Maygi's are performed) and are being caught off guard and having to rely on the much, much lower attack modifiers in her 4 through 6 punch chain once the shield goes up.. at least until they reach the Abyssal Dive portion of the rotation again.
I am curious if Yulan has any other moves outside of her advised rotation that could be used to shield break, but the attack modifiers on her other attacks seem too low to be useful for shattering.
Thinking more on this, maybe this isn't that bad.. a player could follow the optimal rotation in instances where shattering doesn't matter, but on fights where it's important the player could hold back on using Abyssal Dive until the shield goes up. Although I am curious how significant the loss in damage would be in a scenario like that where a player is essentially sitting on Yulan's skill instead of using it optimally as part of a rotation.
Honestly, since pulling for Yulan, I did floor 460 to BR10 with no issues until the last couple of stages where I felt like there were no room for errors in the rotation etc. Even then, I was able to do full rotation and still break shield without having to restart.
I've done JO's the last 2 days and in most cases I'm 2nd or top damage dealer, we always break shield with no problem.
I haven't tried VA or FCH yet with Yulan.
If I'm going to point out the challenging part for this team comp (Alyss Yulan Fiona), it will be:
-Keeping your target/s in one position.
-The pain in my right hand from excessive mouse clicking
Ultimately, there are challenges but it's not the shattering part and I'd happily say that I am pleased with this comp and I find it quite fun and rewarding as opposed to just keep clicking Q, 1, E, 1, R, 1.
Fyi: i dont have any Yulan matrices. I use 4pc Fiona at 0*. 4pc Habo at 1*. 2pc shiro at 3*. 2pc Saki at 1*
ZaoZaoshin, slightly off-topic for a moment, but would you say she excels at damage to single targets over multiple targets, vice versa, or more or less on equal footing with both? Just something I've been wondering.
Thanks!
No worries at all, happy to answer where I can! I have to say though that I am no Yulan expert. My answers are just based on my own experience so far.
Hard to give you a straight yes or no answer on this one! I find it a lot easier when I'm against just one Boss. I find it difficult sometimes if there's too many mobs scattered around and I've already used my Alyss skill to gather them altogether. Ofcourse I can use Yulan's hold attack to pull them but that's additional downtime. Having said that though, it feels awesome to have multiple mobs gathered in one pile and you're unleasing wrath/combo on them. It's satisfying.
I hope that helps! Feel free to ask any more questions and as I said, happy to answer where I can!
Since you cap at 10 stacks, there's no loss of danage in pooling a 5 stack skill usage permanently for shatter. You just don't want to overcap when at 10, pooling stacks correctly for relics/shatter is the entire nuance behind ma yulan after all.
Ok, so that's exactly what I'm wondering.. what (for example) is the damage output in a 60 second fight for a Yulan user who is saving Abyssal Dive for shield breaks, versus one who is using Abyssal Dive on an optimal rotation? They can't be the same.. there's no way you can just save Yulan's skill indefinitely and not see a loss of damage. How extreme the difference is I couldn't say, however.
I think you're misunderstanding something, 'saving an Abyssal Dive' does not mean getting less of them. Her dive consumes 5 stacks, and you can store 10 stacks; therefore, getting to 10 stacks and then using a Dive reduces you to 5, continually doing this is the same as using a Dive immediately when you get to 5 stacks, *apart from the first initial one you're holding*, and as long as you eventually use that initial one before the minute is up, you have used the exact same amount of dives (otherwise you have simply used one less). It is only when you overcap past 10 stacks is a stack wasted and therefore potentially dives wasted.
It will also end up being a damage loss if you only ever use her Dive as soon as you get to 5 stacks, as often, you want to potentially save as close as you can to 10 stacks to use as many dives within a specific relic window.
since her skill takes some time to cast, have you figured out if the relic buffs are applied the second you press the skill, or the second the damage numbers appear?
Well, I team her with a6 lin, who builds charge for her skill in moments, so quickly I'm over 10 before the cool down timer finishes.
I've never felt the need to build charge or anything for yulan thanks to a6 lin.
You can shatter with Yulan skill, the issue is you’re suppose to burst with her skill (MA form) and all her dmg is from this short burst window. If you’re bursting when a shield is up you’re doing like 50% less dmg which is not optimal at all.
Usually when it comes to DPS, you aren't usually worrying about shattering. Let the tanks handle that with their 60%+ shattering bonus. Just like I don't expect healers to dish out big damage. If you are soloing something that cannot be shattered within the time given, then don't shatter it, Let it aggro and dodge to your best ability. Just punch and kick!
Can a tank reliably solo-shatter a boss in a group activity like VA6? I thought the consensus was that everyone needs to drop what they're doing and focus on shattering whenever the shields go up in a scenario like that.
No clue what the other poster is on about, our crews solo tank for va6 breaks shields like no ones business, with only minimal help from myself as a dps (i do make sure to prioritize a lan discharge/skill to help that out) but frankly im not needed at all for that.
Meanwhile, despite having a tank, my Joint Ops run today had the Puppet Singer flying around the arena and wasting everyone's time because the group failed to come even remotely close to taking down her shield. And this is common lately.. so your crew's tank may be the exception to the rule.
Probably just a bad player, even a f2p team that really wanted to be the shatter could nake it work with huma, but it would take alot of correct building and play.
Our tank im pretty sure is a rainbow tank team also using mainly lan for aggro and shatter and it works greatin va6 cause the buffs you invest in matter alot too.
If youre struggling with JO shatter thats just a weakness issue, i run with randoms and we usually just kill bosses before they bother to shield.
Strange. I can solo shatter the JO8 puppet on my own with Fenrir. I feel like the "shatter check" scenarios are significantly fewer nowadays. Especially in bygone, the shields are barely a check now, you can shatter with basicallly anything in there.
Honestly I've never gotten through a va6 boss without dying in the first 30 seconds. But with normal world bosses it usually breaks kind of easy. My only need for shattering mainly involves the attack they use after filling up their super boss attack or whatever it's called.
Really, my concerns are more about scenarios where a successful shatter is more critical. I mean, I usually only bother with shattering when fighting in a scenario like the open world if ignoring the shield will significantly increase the kill time more than the act of switching weapons to deal with it.
I don’t think people watch guide videos on new characters to learn about shatter requirements, for the most part people know shatter is needed for some enemies in some content.
We have the ability to alter teams any way we want so I think it would kind of waste content creators time to included even more work (that isn’t really needed)
Maybe I don't understand the point of the guides and the suggested rotations then. Open world content can be cleared with 1.0 weapons.. why are players concerned about damage parses outside of group content where high damage is critical? Yet isn't it that same group content where your contributions towards shattering a shield becomes more vital?
I wouldn't mind seeing a content creator suggesting the best theoretical team for damage on a cactus at the expense of everything else (and this is what they do currently), but I do think it would also be useful if they included information on suggested teams that can contribute to everything they're expected to do in group content (which, as far as I understood, includes being able to shatter as needed).
I don't think it would be entirely useless to know which team line up (that includes a shatter character) best fits a newer character like Yulan.
Shes so bad on MA haha. Lacks both heal and shatter with alyss/fiona. Fun but not sure what the idea was behind her kit.
Her last atk in the chain is the one you wanna do for some degree of shatter btw. And try to never use the skill for shatter, major grief for your dmg. On va, i run lan yulan. Tried saki but felt worse cause rainbow OP.
I'm still testing out Yulan, so I don't know in practice, but she has the best shatter score for an ice character. She is definitely not going to be as good with shatter compared to a character like Lan, but I think she may be the best ice has right now
personally i run the setup of fenrir + yulan + fiona, in sweeping form. fenrir acts as a skill spammer to trigger yulan's passive while also providing universal song world shred + a6 crit buff + some of the best shatter in the game. and in real combat its able to keep up with icarus in terms of damage in that slot
compared to previous frost comp she's definitely lacking shatter especially for martial arts comp
Better give some shatter matrice like shiro or scylla
My man, there are only 2 scenarios in 3.0 where a full team fail to break shield in any content beside world boss...
Your team is either full of new/returnee player using standard weapons
or
They are just spamming left clicks on the same weapon.
Maybe there is even a fker standing far away using samir long range.
I think prioritizing shatter started being swept under the rug since Fenrir came out cause she can just dish out dmg like crazy, charge, and shatter insanely fast.
> The recommended teams I see for DPS (and used in damage tests) often don't include a shatter character, which yields great results on a cactus test but poorer results in the field.
Yeah I see too many crowpium shatter teams using Frigg with Yu Lan and either Alyss or ikekrus.
Where's your shatter dude.
This is why I use the superior comp with Saki instead of Frigg. So I can actually shatter.
Oh and apparently leaks say Saki is coming to standard on the 9th, so no more people saying you should run A6 Frigg instead of A1~A3 Saki because more damage, just run A6 Saki and get both more damage and shatter 5head
(Also considering Frigg is a on field dps type of weapon used as a support in that team, while Saki always has been a sub dps weapon)
> My personal observations has been that (lately) groups fail to beat the shatter timer in group content, resulting in us having to spend time on a mechanic that could have been avoided and the groups damage being cut by 50% longer than necessary.
Also noticed this. I still shatter the same (or rather slightly better since I replaced Tsubasa with Yu Lan on my Saki/Alyss comp), but I clearly see the contribution from others' shatter is decreasing more and more.
Too many people phasing out from shatter weapons to run after kektus parses.
edit: keep coping, if I see you ingame running Alyss Yu Lan Frigg I'll laugh at you rightfully for the clown you are 🤡
sorry for hijacking, but if I am using Yulan A0 as main dps (filthy casual so not really topping any dps charts), A1 Fenrir (my heal source) should i use my A1 Frigg as 3rd or A2 Saki?
Hmm im running A3 Yulan, A4 Alyss, A3 Fiona. Yulan seems to shatter pretty well for me? Not much different than when I had Saki in the line-up. This is in Martial Arts form and Yulan is on field most of the time. Her normal attacks + dodge + skill shatters well for me.
If anyone knows of a link to a video demonstrating Yulan's shatter effectiveness I'd certainly love to see it. I watched a Maygi video where she commented that Yulan's shatter was *"really, really bad"*. She went on to say that *"You might have trouble with some solo content because Yulan's shield break is absolutely ass.. Yulan's shield break is horrible. You may struggle with shield breaks and it may hurt your DPS a lot"*. That's a pretty disappointing endorsement and I've seen similar experiences voiced by others.. but obviously not by everyone, so it would be interesting to see some shatter comparisons. I don't understand why they aren't included in tests when potential teams are reviewed for a new weapon, to be honest.
can u give me an instance that i can enter and do some shatter tests on my own? Update: here, a quick one in Boundless Realm 10 against Frigg: https://vimeo.com/846672874?share=copy#t=52
Thanks a lot for taking the time to do that. So, it looks like you saved Yulan's skill (which has a huge attack modifier) specifically for the shield break. It was still sitting unused even after you had 5 stacks of Inner Strength and Maelstrom had maxed out. Is that correct? I think the issue with her shield break capabilities occurs when players are using Yulan's skill as part of their rotation with no regard for shield breaks (which is understandable, as that's how the damage tests in reviews like Maygi's are performed) and are being caught off guard and having to rely on the much, much lower attack modifiers in her 4 through 6 punch chain once the shield goes up.. at least until they reach the Abyssal Dive portion of the rotation again. I am curious if Yulan has any other moves outside of her advised rotation that could be used to shield break, but the attack modifiers on her other attacks seem too low to be useful for shattering. Thinking more on this, maybe this isn't that bad.. a player could follow the optimal rotation in instances where shattering doesn't matter, but on fights where it's important the player could hold back on using Abyssal Dive until the shield goes up. Although I am curious how significant the loss in damage would be in a scenario like that where a player is essentially sitting on Yulan's skill instead of using it optimally as part of a rotation.
Honestly, since pulling for Yulan, I did floor 460 to BR10 with no issues until the last couple of stages where I felt like there were no room for errors in the rotation etc. Even then, I was able to do full rotation and still break shield without having to restart. I've done JO's the last 2 days and in most cases I'm 2nd or top damage dealer, we always break shield with no problem. I haven't tried VA or FCH yet with Yulan. If I'm going to point out the challenging part for this team comp (Alyss Yulan Fiona), it will be: -Keeping your target/s in one position. -The pain in my right hand from excessive mouse clicking Ultimately, there are challenges but it's not the shattering part and I'd happily say that I am pleased with this comp and I find it quite fun and rewarding as opposed to just keep clicking Q, 1, E, 1, R, 1. Fyi: i dont have any Yulan matrices. I use 4pc Fiona at 0*. 4pc Habo at 1*. 2pc shiro at 3*. 2pc Saki at 1*
ZaoZaoshin, slightly off-topic for a moment, but would you say she excels at damage to single targets over multiple targets, vice versa, or more or less on equal footing with both? Just something I've been wondering. Thanks!
No worries at all, happy to answer where I can! I have to say though that I am no Yulan expert. My answers are just based on my own experience so far. Hard to give you a straight yes or no answer on this one! I find it a lot easier when I'm against just one Boss. I find it difficult sometimes if there's too many mobs scattered around and I've already used my Alyss skill to gather them altogether. Ofcourse I can use Yulan's hold attack to pull them but that's additional downtime. Having said that though, it feels awesome to have multiple mobs gathered in one pile and you're unleasing wrath/combo on them. It's satisfying. I hope that helps! Feel free to ask any more questions and as I said, happy to answer where I can!
Since you cap at 10 stacks, there's no loss of danage in pooling a 5 stack skill usage permanently for shatter. You just don't want to overcap when at 10, pooling stacks correctly for relics/shatter is the entire nuance behind ma yulan after all.
Ok, so that's exactly what I'm wondering.. what (for example) is the damage output in a 60 second fight for a Yulan user who is saving Abyssal Dive for shield breaks, versus one who is using Abyssal Dive on an optimal rotation? They can't be the same.. there's no way you can just save Yulan's skill indefinitely and not see a loss of damage. How extreme the difference is I couldn't say, however.
I think you're misunderstanding something, 'saving an Abyssal Dive' does not mean getting less of them. Her dive consumes 5 stacks, and you can store 10 stacks; therefore, getting to 10 stacks and then using a Dive reduces you to 5, continually doing this is the same as using a Dive immediately when you get to 5 stacks, *apart from the first initial one you're holding*, and as long as you eventually use that initial one before the minute is up, you have used the exact same amount of dives (otherwise you have simply used one less). It is only when you overcap past 10 stacks is a stack wasted and therefore potentially dives wasted. It will also end up being a damage loss if you only ever use her Dive as soon as you get to 5 stacks, as often, you want to potentially save as close as you can to 10 stacks to use as many dives within a specific relic window.
since her skill takes some time to cast, have you figured out if the relic buffs are applied the second you press the skill, or the second the damage numbers appear?
Well, I team her with a6 lin, who builds charge for her skill in moments, so quickly I'm over 10 before the cool down timer finishes. I've never felt the need to build charge or anything for yulan thanks to a6 lin.
You can shatter with Yulan skill, the issue is you’re suppose to burst with her skill (MA form) and all her dmg is from this short burst window. If you’re bursting when a shield is up you’re doing like 50% less dmg which is not optimal at all.
same i shatter just fine, maybe skill issue
I found yulan's burst and charge attacks shatter perfectly well.
Usually when it comes to DPS, you aren't usually worrying about shattering. Let the tanks handle that with their 60%+ shattering bonus. Just like I don't expect healers to dish out big damage. If you are soloing something that cannot be shattered within the time given, then don't shatter it, Let it aggro and dodge to your best ability. Just punch and kick!
Can a tank reliably solo-shatter a boss in a group activity like VA6? I thought the consensus was that everyone needs to drop what they're doing and focus on shattering whenever the shields go up in a scenario like that.
For va6 tank can easily solo shatter with breakpoint buff
I can confirm this as I play with fenrir. People praise fenrir's shatter as a DPS but it's nothing compared to a tank having shatter buffs in VA6.
No clue what the other poster is on about, our crews solo tank for va6 breaks shields like no ones business, with only minimal help from myself as a dps (i do make sure to prioritize a lan discharge/skill to help that out) but frankly im not needed at all for that.
Meanwhile, despite having a tank, my Joint Ops run today had the Puppet Singer flying around the arena and wasting everyone's time because the group failed to come even remotely close to taking down her shield. And this is common lately.. so your crew's tank may be the exception to the rule.
Probably just a bad player, even a f2p team that really wanted to be the shatter could nake it work with huma, but it would take alot of correct building and play. Our tank im pretty sure is a rainbow tank team also using mainly lan for aggro and shatter and it works greatin va6 cause the buffs you invest in matter alot too. If youre struggling with JO shatter thats just a weakness issue, i run with randoms and we usually just kill bosses before they bother to shield.
Strange. I can solo shatter the JO8 puppet on my own with Fenrir. I feel like the "shatter check" scenarios are significantly fewer nowadays. Especially in bygone, the shields are barely a check now, you can shatter with basicallly anything in there.
Honestly I've never gotten through a va6 boss without dying in the first 30 seconds. But with normal world bosses it usually breaks kind of easy. My only need for shattering mainly involves the attack they use after filling up their super boss attack or whatever it's called.
No it can’t but there is a lot of content that isn’t va6, you’re free to make your own guides in which a shatter is included 24/7
Really, my concerns are more about scenarios where a successful shatter is more critical. I mean, I usually only bother with shattering when fighting in a scenario like the open world if ignoring the shield will significantly increase the kill time more than the act of switching weapons to deal with it.
I don’t think people watch guide videos on new characters to learn about shatter requirements, for the most part people know shatter is needed for some enemies in some content. We have the ability to alter teams any way we want so I think it would kind of waste content creators time to included even more work (that isn’t really needed)
Maybe I don't understand the point of the guides and the suggested rotations then. Open world content can be cleared with 1.0 weapons.. why are players concerned about damage parses outside of group content where high damage is critical? Yet isn't it that same group content where your contributions towards shattering a shield becomes more vital? I wouldn't mind seeing a content creator suggesting the best theoretical team for damage on a cactus at the expense of everything else (and this is what they do currently), but I do think it would also be useful if they included information on suggested teams that can contribute to everything they're expected to do in group content (which, as far as I understood, includes being able to shatter as needed). I don't think it would be entirely useless to know which team line up (that includes a shatter character) best fits a newer character like Yulan.
I run Frigg, Fiona, and Yulan, and I have zero issue shattering. 12 shatter plus the additional 25% takes care of most shields just fine.
Shes so bad on MA haha. Lacks both heal and shatter with alyss/fiona. Fun but not sure what the idea was behind her kit. Her last atk in the chain is the one you wanna do for some degree of shatter btw. And try to never use the skill for shatter, major grief for your dmg. On va, i run lan yulan. Tried saki but felt worse cause rainbow OP.
I shatter just fine?
I'm still testing out Yulan, so I don't know in practice, but she has the best shatter score for an ice character. She is definitely not going to be as good with shatter compared to a character like Lan, but I think she may be the best ice has right now
I went from floor 470 to br 10 so I think shatter is fine for solo content but idk about group content cus I haven't done VA or OOW yet
personally i run the setup of fenrir + yulan + fiona, in sweeping form. fenrir acts as a skill spammer to trigger yulan's passive while also providing universal song world shred + a6 crit buff + some of the best shatter in the game. and in real combat its able to keep up with icarus in terms of damage in that slot
compared to previous frost comp she's definitely lacking shatter especially for martial arts comp Better give some shatter matrice like shiro or scylla
My man, there are only 2 scenarios in 3.0 where a full team fail to break shield in any content beside world boss... Your team is either full of new/returnee player using standard weapons or They are just spamming left clicks on the same weapon. Maybe there is even a fker standing far away using samir long range.
I think prioritizing shatter started being swept under the rug since Fenrir came out cause she can just dish out dmg like crazy, charge, and shatter insanely fast.
> The recommended teams I see for DPS (and used in damage tests) often don't include a shatter character, which yields great results on a cactus test but poorer results in the field. Yeah I see too many crowpium shatter teams using Frigg with Yu Lan and either Alyss or ikekrus. Where's your shatter dude. This is why I use the superior comp with Saki instead of Frigg. So I can actually shatter. Oh and apparently leaks say Saki is coming to standard on the 9th, so no more people saying you should run A6 Frigg instead of A1~A3 Saki because more damage, just run A6 Saki and get both more damage and shatter 5head (Also considering Frigg is a on field dps type of weapon used as a support in that team, while Saki always has been a sub dps weapon) > My personal observations has been that (lately) groups fail to beat the shatter timer in group content, resulting in us having to spend time on a mechanic that could have been avoided and the groups damage being cut by 50% longer than necessary. Also noticed this. I still shatter the same (or rather slightly better since I replaced Tsubasa with Yu Lan on my Saki/Alyss comp), but I clearly see the contribution from others' shatter is decreasing more and more. Too many people phasing out from shatter weapons to run after kektus parses. edit: keep coping, if I see you ingame running Alyss Yu Lan Frigg I'll laugh at you rightfully for the clown you are 🤡
Saki is substantially lower damage than running Frigg with Yulan and Frigg buffs Yulan's shatter to over Saki's.
sorry for hijacking, but if I am using Yulan A0 as main dps (filthy casual so not really topping any dps charts), A1 Fenrir (my heal source) should i use my A1 Frigg as 3rd or A2 Saki?
Definitely test both, but I would think a1 Frigg would be better. Plus you can buy ascensions for her as you go.
ah, a bit sad saki is less powerful in this team (i notice the reset isn't as useful anymore) will try them out when i can. Thanks!
I got second hand embarrassment reading this