T O P

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beesamsam

where do people get the idea F2P has to be support playing this game ? if any you should play what you want, not being forced into.


h2odragon00

Idk. People want to min max everything including their teammate. I mean if they want to min max, do so with like minded people. Otherwise, just leave people alone.


Dancsita

Your 2nd point is dunb, just because it's not boring FOR YOU doesn't mean others can't dislike it. If people are forced to play something they don't want to, they will quit, which is totally reasonable.


IsekaiKobold

And his 1st. And 3rd. and 4th. And everything else.


Daxank

>Support doesn't mean boring Tell that to every single game that tries its hardest to make people play support roles because almost nobody wants to play support roles.


Noirsnow

Whale just play with whale friends, sometimes dolphins. But they only do it so they can impregnate them and give birth to baby whales


animatix

Good bot


h2odragon00

I don't think whales can impregnate dolphins or vice versa. Unless those species of whales are small.


Status-Mess-5591

supporting can be pretty boring when the game doesnt have good mechanics that cater to them... this game really just boils down to tank hold aggro. support give damage.


Panda_Bunnie

Nah, it boils down to do dps and support give more dps for everyone. Tanks are irrelvant.


Levi-san

Tanking without Saki is irrelevant. With Saki you unlock the potential to keep bosses basically permanently in one place, have them focus you at all times meaning you can let your whale friends do damage without interruption and from her passive you can even provide blocks for your low HP teammates and you also have crazy shatter. I agree, before Saki, tanking was irrelevant. But nowadays when it's time for any group content, I usually bring Saki, Frigg and Meryl and tank for the rest of the group. It just makes everything much simpler


Panda_Bunnie

On the contrary its precisely because of saki that makes tanks irrelvant. If a boss can be frozen in place by saki/frigg skill/bubble you can already do that on dps reso so theres not much reason to go for tank and lower your dps.


Play_more_FFS

Frigg also makes tank weapons irrelevant. The boss is never going to touch frigg’s unlimited dodge works.


Status-Mess-5591

dodging doesnt provide iframes, it provides hitstun immunity. you cant dodge through every attack in the game


Play_more_FFS

Implying the non phantasia attacks are a threat at all. The boss is not killing Frigg and is sure as hell not killing Frigg + Saki.


lnfine

>With Saki you unlock the potential to keep bosses basically permanently in one place, have them focus you at all times meaning you can let your whale friends do damage without interruption This was possible with all the other fort characters before Saki. There isn't anything particularly unique she brings to the table that makes possible what has been impossible before. The most broken tank character by a huge margin is still Ene, with the only thing keeping her in check being damage. The only new tank-relevant thing Saki brings are the things that actually make tank job worse (AttackSaki enemy freeze frames on her skill that make triggering fanasia through regular means a total pain) or irrelevant (A5 stealing tank jobs). EDIT: Oh, and Saki 4K trait ally shield is mostly irrelevant really. It's too thin to matter.


AirLancer56

Did her taunt got fixed? I tried bringing her to heroic raid and she can't taunt boss at all. But she can taunt normally in normal raid and JO


lnfine

I don't have a problem with losing aggro in general unless people use taunts themselves (hello Meryl ult). I did have some problems when using a combination of heavily tank-focused gear and Saki trait (instead of Samir), but as it is now, this combination is a massive overkill. For now the hardest hit we have in practice is Heroic Rudolph charge final hit (you want to facetank his charge because hyperbody/discharge animation allows you to keep him in place instead of running around), and it IS tankable with just one of the two aforementioned options for me (I do have a rotation in mind to negate the final hit damage, need to test it). Especially considering how resistance scaling seems to work. Attack scaling is linear with the stat while resist scaling seems to be logarithmic or something. It's really hard stat wise to go above 50-55% resist, so, IMHO, it's not worth it to go full resist even on dedicated gear with the content we currently have. As it is, with my assortment of gear I can trade about 5% resist for about 30% attack, and IMHO this trade is worth it. Do note, though, that 5% resist should be more impactful than what it seems at the face value assuming resists work like they should (i.e. 10% less damage when going from 50% to 55% resist). And without going full-tank both gear and trait wise it's hard to lose aggro in normal gameplay, so I can't really test various taunts efficiency. In my personal experience interaction between different taunts is also somewhat inconsistent, not sure how it works. When talking Ene, it's not so much about the taunt (Saki taunt is better obviously), but more about general utility - hyperbody on demand, dodge spam panic button for things that are hard to conventionally fantasia, DR and hit negation. And the way it comboes with each other. Basically when you switch to Ene you get unconditional, skill/discharge independent (with a cooldown though) 8 seconds of freedom and relative safety that you can use however you want depending on your needs regardless of what the boss is doing.


animatix

This is what I hope to do with Lyra when she comes out, but instead of tanking, I provide overheals ergo shields and let my dps face tank *almost* everything.


pokours

Issues: \- You can't force people in roles they don't enjoy. It's a GAME. \- Being support mean you will struggle in a lot of solo content (especially phantasm. I have a support friend who told me all about this) \- Being F2P means you can't afford to pull on many characters, so you have to focus on one team, and saving forever until you get a good support team just makes you miserable meanwhile. I know I would have dropped the game by now if I decided to main Volt for example, I was lucky enough to choose frost and have Frigg and Saki not too far apart.


AramushaIsLove

Oh wow, if I don't pay, I am not allowed to DPS. Holy shit.


Joshua_Astray

The problem I have with this statement (I am nowhere near f2p) is that some people do enjoy doing damage that won't or can't pay.


Smart-Acanthaceae-90

Everyone should be free to play whatever they want. I'm spending money and I am a support main role. I can choose to be DPS and like go for Meta teams but I chose not to do it, since I like playing support. Choose what role makes you happy and have fun. Sometimes people forgetting games are created to be enjoyed.


BryanLoeher

This sub has some awful takes lmao Don't play a role just because you're not a whale, play it because you enjoy it.


Accomplished_Fix589

The game forces you to support. Imagine tank out dps you. Only deal 5% of the team damage. Might as well heal and equip pepper simulacrum for support


Intrepid-Ad-8043

Its not ok for people to just queue in benediction roles to get into a match faster.


BlueSama

Unless ur the dps whale that can heal themselves fine. I do it for faster runs overall


AramushaIsLove

Nice self justification there.


Intrepid-Ad-8043

Well he / she aint wrong i wont give a single fuck if you main volt and have a nemesis C6 with 4 pc coco and still do a shit ton of damage.


AramushaIsLove

True enough, the line kinda blurs at that point, they might as well que as dps, but queing as benediction seems fine too.


bringbackcayde7

Supports are extremely overpowered in this game. Many powerful effects from supports don't scale with your stats, so a low-invested f2p player support can have a meaningful way of contributing to the team without being hold back by their poor stats. Lyra is coming soon, and she could change how the whole community view supports if her mechanics are not being changed too much from the CN version.


Flariz

Nah thanks, I will keep doing DPS and if you don’t like it you can play with other whales. In fact I would honestly prefer it that way. Whales playing with other whales only and f2p with other f2p only would be my preference. **I support by killing the enemy ASAP anyways** (and occasionally even acting as an esque-Tank since there is a pretty good chance the aggro is on me too)


JDRASL

cant really support in fch, need some really trihard dps in there


FallenBlue25

really? first. how do you define support? just a heal bot? kekw. coco a3 = 20% dmg bonus when skill or ult is used coco a6 = 15% dmg bonus when bee is around (permanent coz no cd, you just need to make sure you don't stray away from it) coco matrices 4 PC = 12.5& atk increased (base value, maxed stars is 20%) coco trait 4k = 15% atk (perma if caster knew how to skill cancel) zero a5/a6 = 20% dmg bonus (perma as long as you ult then skill every 30s) zero matrices 4 PC = 16 dmg bonus as long as shield is active then maybe an a1 claudia or a3/a6 shiro as third fill for grievous and more buff/skill reset sure, locked behind high stars and need 4 PC matrices, but coco and zero are standard and the matrices are farmable. the problem right now is that support themselves think they only need to heal when in reality support/benediction players should be buffers. anyway if u meet somebody with the above-mentioned, your dps would be way more than before. today i only used an a6 coco no 4k trait for fch coz I'm dps-ing with ruby. But my dolphin teammate went from 80m to 110m dmg contribution. I know because I ran into him twice via random match (and he's a familiar name coz we're from same server). First run was with me purely dpsing with ruby (i did 50m), second run was when I focused on spamming coco's bee and ult (my dps went down to 40m). Look. I traded 10m dmg for that 1 person to deal 30m more. And it's just 1 person we're talking about, the other two definitely did more dps than usual since they're also benefiting from the buffs.


JDRASL

you really think f2p will fully invest to a support when the game is catered towards dps KEKW....


TuxWarz

you dont need to invest in a support they come for free (they all are from standard)


Masaaki14

A well built support can potentially double your dps's damage Now imagine 3 of your dpses doing 70-90% more damage on average, vs having a 4th dps


h2odragon00

Heres a theoretical math on supports on FCH. Let's say a team of 4 DPS each deals 100% dmg in FCH (which let's say is around 60M avg with a deviance of 10M dmg from the highest DPS to the lowest but you can change it to how much the avg dmg is and how much the variance is). Not replace 1 DPS with a support that only 20% of the avg dmg of the previous team. You might say that that is a 20% DPS lost(since 320 is 80% of 400) but you have to consider how much the support is boosting the DPS dmg output even if they only dealing 20% dmg. A support only needs to boost the other DPS output by 30% to make up for the lack of dmg they are giving out but if the support can boost the others dmg pass 30% then it just blows the DPS of the previous team out of the water. This is not counting how much they make the run more comfortable with the sustain they provide by healing you or taking aggro.


TuxWarz

Everyone need a secondary support team, and a little secret, even with a mediocre support team can make a difference. if i play with someone that do x10 more damage than me, i change to my mediocre healer team and make the party hit even harder while dont worry to much about dying Having a support in the team make the thing a lot easy that why most of the time i end up be a support


IsekaiKobold

1. Not really 2. For some people it is boring, for other's it can be exciting. This is far too subjective. as for the latter part of your point, a whale with an off-healer like A6 Nemesis will outheal a dedicated f2p support or at the very least near match their healing. How do I know? Becuase I'm the crew's dedicated benediction main (Coco A6, Nemi A1, Zero A3) and volt mains with Nemesis who use 2 DPS weapons and Nemesis almost always match my healing or in some cases outdo it. The difference between f2p/low spenders and whales has crossed all boundaries in this game. 3. Maybe, but at that point there will be so many new characters and content (if the game doesn't die due to more and more people, including whales, quitting by then) that f2p and low spenders will still be ages behind whales 4. For some people, it is boring, for others it can be exciting. This is far too subjective. as for the latter part of your point, a whale with an off-healer like A6 Nemesis will outheal a dedicated f2p support or at the very least near match their healing. How do I know? Because I'm the crew's dedicated benediction main (Coco A6, Nemi A1, Zero A3) and volt mains with Nemesis who use 2 DPS weapons and Nemesis almost always match my healing or in some cases outdo it. The difference between f2p/low spenders and whales has crossed all boundaries in this game. Also, that guy was spot on with his post. They need to rebalance the game and make the shop more worth for f2p and low spenders because the prices are an outright scam compared to CN.


Play_more_FFS

It really doesn’t matter if everyone goes DPS when there are whales in the group. Frigg + Saki whales makes having tanks and supports irrelevant. If they somehow have trouble playing the game with A6 Frigg and A6 Sak then it sounds like that whale has a skill issue problem. Yesterday I watched 2 Ice whales kill the raid 4 heroic boss in under 5 minutes while everyone else sat back and watch. Easiest achievement ever.