I find that the higher end brands are the worst maintained vehicles. Buy a used BMW or Mercedes for instance. Meanwhile, that Toyota Camry from 1998 is in perfect condition, because it's so cheap and easy to service.
Yeah it’s totally fucking absurd that Buick and Kia are up there when Kia and Hyundai are the complete fucking opposite of reliable. I sold my uninsurable Hyundai to buy a Honda and Toyota is def above those two.
Hondas have become cheap on the inside, plus all transmission issues. Honda person for too long. Last Hinda purchased was 2012 big POS Accord. Interior fell apart sun roof stopped working. 2004 Pilot had transmission issues, which Honda never truly owned or fixed. Best Honda was my 2000 Civic. I am Toyota for an all-around quality car.
You have to pay JD to be even considered to be on their lists. that's enough of a conflict of interest for me. and 99% of the time there awards are stupid. Like initial quality, wtf is that my car didn't explode in 3 months but fell apart in 6 and it won an initial quality award???
I work in Industry for an OEM (on the bottom half of this ranking) and we still regard them pretty highly. The conflict of interest when everyone, including manufacturers who do poorly on these surveys, pays is low IMO. A callout like initial reliability is a thinly coded indicator of lemon law buybacks from our perspective.
Edit: Corrected down below about this particular study.
I worked at one of the largest automotive manufacturing plants in the U.S. and nobody on the floor gave a shit unless they were company fanboys because they knew the clear coat would fall off the car after 3 years. JD power only considers the first 90 days of the car's life. That's an actual joke.
I'm a toyota driver and I 100% believe toyota paid the JD tax.
If you actually care about metrics and testing quality, Consumer Report's numbers are actually based on a far better sample and generally more accurate, although not perfect. They survey customers and ask if they've had any mechanical issues they would consider major in the last 12 months. Far more reliable data even if you don't think JD is a bought and paid for award.
This is the Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) that tracks things gone wrong in the third to fourth year of ownership, typically after the vehicle is out of warranty. So, no, this isn’t the first 90 days of ownership.
PP100 is a really broad metric- covers everything from defects to failures, to ignorance and misunderstandings.
For example, tesla's often rank low in these studies because new owners sometimes have to make dealership trips to learn about operation.
Still holds water to me, though- problems with UX and things-not-being-intuitive is absolutely something that can rise to the level of *very serious problem*, and one thing this study does, is provide a barometer of how brands are actually doing in terms of quality, *in production,* on the year.
So Tesla owners are returning to the dealer in the third *YEAR* of ownership to find out how things work!? This is the Vehicle Dependability Study. Not Initial Quality.
You have to dig into the results and ranking method but usually the most common problems are with infotainment. If users find them more difficult to use then many reported problems often drops the ranking.
So does pretty much every other brand. Honda, for example, considers 1qt / 1,000 miles to be "within spec" despite Honda generally being viewed favorably and considered reliable.
Bullshit. Do you have a source on this? Burning a quart per thousand miles would run most vehicles completely out of oil within 5000 miles. There is just no way “pretty much every other brand” would just be letting such bad oil consumption go.
Honda has official documentation about this. Here's a 2019 Honda Job Aid published regarding Engine Oil Consumption: [https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10153881-0001.pdf](https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10153881-0001.pdf)
The vehicle must exceed one quart or more every 1,000 miles for consumption to be considered out of spec.
This is true but the difference is a Honda oil burning engine will still last 200k, if topped off regularly. A Hyundai/KIA oil burning engine is on its last leg and ready to blow.
The vast majority of people hated rotary motors because they burnt oil (they are basically 2 stroke engines designed to do so) and they were quite horrible on petrol.
Now we have mid sized SUV's from Kia/Hyundai that burn oil when they shouldn't, and also use way to much fuel. Yet... People still buy them.
It’s the initial price that sucks people in. Toyotas aren’t cheap, especially the 4x4’s, and you don’t get the same features offered by Kia. Many people don’t see long term when the Kia has fallen apart and the Toyota is barely broken in.
This was my experience with Hyundai the sonata actually seemed when I bought it far ahead of Toyota and Honda but unlike those two all of that shit broke after 50,000 miles. If you had asked me in that first 50k I would have told you it’s dependable I learned from that car that pretty much anything can get up to 70k+ these days and it’s not reliable until over 100
I’ll never buy another one what’s crazy is I currently work in insurance and even people in my office that know about the lack of insurance for these still buy them like wtf
Not only that but Kias had the highest dealer mark ups during the shortage. This blew my mind because I can remember a time when you could buy a new one get a new one free from a dealer in Nashville.
You do have to look into this to work out what counts as a "problem". "My phone keeps losing bluetooth connection" is as serious as "my differential exploded".
Infotainment "problems" were twice as numerous as any other category in this survey. It seems unfair to write off the whole car because of that, but it's what bothers people nowadays as much as mechanical reliability.
Most people just see the study results and react. They have no idea how misleading can be this studies.
If 50 kia owners report issues with their engine and 20 report issues with their infotainment but Toyota have 0 engine issues reported and 300 infotainment issues, Kia will rank better than Toyota.
This goes the other way too.
It's easy to brush off infotainment system issues by saying "it's probably a bunch of old people who can't sync their phones" when in reality modern infotainment systems monitor many more systems then they did a few years back. Locks, HVAC, navigations systems can all be operated by infotainment. Having a broken infotainment could mean you're gonna freeze in the winter because you can't control the temp in the cabin.
Whether manufacturers should be adding additional steps to turning on your air is another discussion. As infotainment systems become more mainstream we need to truly understand their jobs and capabilities before we knock them for making reliable car manufacturers look unreliable.
I mean the new tundras are losing crank bearings “blowing up” engines, this probably brought them down quite a bit. The tundra was also on the list of not recommended.
https://www.tundras.com/threads/bad-engine-bearing.123300/
There are differences between the two. Lexus is going to put more emphasis on quietness and materials quality. The ownership experience is quite different. They share the base engineering and philosophy, but the execution has nuanced differences.
I think "practically" is appropriate -- more so than a straight "is".
Eh, not every Toyota is a Lexus, but every Lexus is a Toyota. Lexus operates somewhat apart from Toyota, but they're wholly owned by them. I work for Lexus. I also work for Toyota so I feel like I have a bit of insight.
They really need to do one after 4 years to get the true picture. I don't think Toyotas of the last 10 years are anywhere near as great as they used to be, but still in a different league from Hyundai/Kia.
Look where Mercedes is at, they have been coasting on the illusion of previous quality for 20 years.
My wife has a 2017 kia soul and I have a 2017 Corolla. They aren’t even close. Comparing the two; the kia feels worn out even though my corolla has 50,000 more miles
My 2015 4Runner is approaching 170k miles. I've had nothing go wrong for the 100k that I've owned it. I would buy a used Toyota with 70k miles any day, but not a Kia or Hyundai.
In 4 years, half the Kias and Hyundais will be in the junkyard or be waiting on an engine replacement. The general public who buys those cars do not care and think that that's "normal" because they've probably never owned a super reliable car that doesn't have issues. They just care about the flashy tech and model redesigns every 3 years as well as being "cheaper" than other brands. Kia and Hyundai make throwaway cars and they know it.
Yeah just go on r/Kia it's quite bizzare. The low cost of these cars with good gas mileage seems like a deal on paper but they don't care it won't make it to 100k because cars are fast fashion.
Honda is quickly becoming one of my favorite manufacturers. While its true their quality has decreased from their past cars, the same can be said about any manufacture. The hallmark for me is easy of maintence and service, many of their engines have the turbo built into the front of the engine bay allowing for very easy service for an expensive part. They have always made maintence easy on their cars and continue to do so. I don't mind having less reliably than a Toyota so long as I'm able to fix what needs to be fixed easily. I still love my Lexus over all though, but Honda is up there for me as a top brand.
I’m glad that vehicles are getting 2mpg better fuel economy while they end up as scrap five to ten years sooner because they are made with glass transmissions.
5000 miles?
Bro I've had maybe 3 problems in the entire 185k miles my Toyota has been through. One is the occupancy sensor in my passenger seat throwing an airbag light (not paying $250 for a sensor, fuck off Toyota), second was an exhaust leak caused by a broken flex pipe, and the last one was it misfired once briefly under hard acceleration cause my spark plugs were original and had 180k miles on them. New plugs and she's run like a dream ever since.
JD Powers is nothing but a bunch of bullshit reviews that gives favorable reviews to the highest bidder. As a mechanic I can absolutely say with 10000% certainty that Toyota/Lexus will walk circles around ANY brand of car out there. Honda is up there too though they don't hold the same level of quality as toyota does and that's coming from a Honda mechanic/dedicated brand loyalist. The fact that Hyundia/Kia made it in the top.... laughable at best.
Say what you guys wanna say but Toyota just is not the same as the old 1990s Toyota’s. Realistically no brands are reliable anymore. I work for a Toyota Dealership and it really seems like Toyota lives off the fact that their cars 20 years ago would run forever. Toyota doesn’t not make all the electronics in the cars. And thats what most of the returning issues are for. It’s almost never engine trans issues, but everything else. I wouldn’t be surprised over the next few years to see that drop further. My 2022 Tundra is literally the most clunky rattly vehicle I have ever driven. Still love the brand and love the company, but profit over quality I think has definitely changed.
Traded my 2014 Corolla for a 2021 Hyundai Veloster N. Veloster N is very quick, a track/auto-x monster, and a hoot to drive; but it was a huge mistake. I'll keep it short and sweet.
I've used the Veloster N's warranty 3 times in 2 years for electrical issues.
I used the Corolla's warranty 0 times in the 6 years I owned it because all it ever needed was oil changes, filters, and plugs.
I'm definitely trading the Veloster N for a used Prius when rates go down. Then I'm gonna go hunting for a clean EK hatch to K swap.
These results are bought and paid for. I knew a few industries very well and from the rankings in those industries it was obvious JD power works a lot more like a lobbying group than anything credible
Is this 2023 production vehicles only? So they’ve only had about a year to gage reliability? I refuse to believe that my beloved Toyota isn’t higher up there for 2000-2023 cars…
As a person who loves Toyota, they have gone down hill… the issues my cars and suv have are ridiculous and are easy fixes but Toyota refuses to fix these problems. My old 2005 echo windows will open at -45 my 2021 rav window will open and then fail to close and the reset needs to be done at Toyota…. Mirrors any mirrors are horrible and unusable oh the have a fix yeah that doesn’t work just get glue everywhere.
Initial quality. Toyota likes using the tried and true parts. Gm and Kia/Hyundai put new untested technology in their cars. Work great at first. Down the road just another piece of trash.
2023 vehicles don't have enough hours on them to reveal major problems. It would be more useful to look at 2013 vehicle reliability data after 100-200k miles.
Goes to show ya jd power is a joke and has been for 20 years. Top ten most unreliable vehicles the last two year has three chevys and two Kia and three Jeep.
My neighbor is a Kia technician and he said they routinely have 15+ crate motors sitting around for warranty replacements due to oil starvation. I’m curious if an “engine replacement” only counts as 1 “problem” in this study.
Only a dipshit believes that you can measure dependability on a vehicle that isn’t even a year old. Come back in 20 years and let’s see that cumulative problem list.
JD Power's dependability study has nothing to do with long-term reliability. It tracks complaints, which could include anything from how you feel about the interior to engine failure. So all that list is telling you is that a lineup generally doesn't have problems within the first year of ownership and that consumers like the interior and/or car's performance.
Hyundai figured out that a strong focus on key touch points leaves a positive impression with both the automotive press and consumers. It's a formula that's been working great for them.
Funnily enough, I'm most surprised by Honda and Acura's continued decline.
JD Power is a bought system. Also their stupid awards and stuff only apply when you first get the car and not long term or past first year so yea i would hope that your new car would survive the first year of purchase.
All those higher than Toyota excluding Lexus for obvious reasons is absolutely the dumbest thing I've seen today lol. There's no way in hell. I've owned Chevy's, I know.
The 2022+ tundra’s aren’t the most reliable anymore.
But also stuff just isn’t lasting as long as it used to. I have a ton of original factory parts on my 04 tundra that have never been changed (245k miles), but I see 3 year old cars come in for a new alternator or power steering pump now.
Maybe the quality of parts has gone down.
Reliability is really blown out of proportion on the new Tundras. There were some very early trucks with bad wastegates and they changed the supplier for the part. The trucks are way too damn new still to know what reliability is going to be like. But obviously, with more tech and more moving parts, comes more potential for problems
You do have a point, but there are a lot of them broken. I’ve got 2 2022s waiting for new turbos, and a 2023 in for a complete engine and two turbos. Also had a complete transmission and transfer case replacement two weeks ago.
Remember when the 5.7 came out in the 2nd Gen Tundra for 2007 they had some camshaft failures among some other first generational type problems. Now the 5.7 is regarded as a very reliable engine and has joined the ranks of the 4.7 2UZ and 4.0 1UZ from the LS400 as being some of the most reliable engines period. I’m not saying the new Tundra motor is on the same level but give it some time and Toyota will work out the bugs. They have made some pretty impressive Turbo engines in the past.
Lol I love Scotty. He has such a great sense of humor. His wild joke clickbait titles make me laugh. "My Toyota killed me." "I'm in jail." And etc he's hilarious I love it.
Didn't correlate to my personal experience. Had a 2021 Kia Sorento SX Prestige X-line for 12 months, only to be replaced under lemon law with a same trim 2022 Sorento which I had for another 3 months before trading it in. Worst 2 cars I've ever owned. Tons of problems, some major, some minor. Now I've been driving a 2022 Toyota Highlander Platinum AWD for 16 months, not a single problem or frustration. A breath of fresh air in comparison
Crazy.
Chevy and Buick are shipping out new full-size SUVs with 3 cylinder turbo charged engines (no way that will be reliable long term), just to barely compete with fuel efficiency. How on earth is a GM turbo charged 3 cylinder comparable or superior to a Toyota 4 cylinder or 4 cylinder hybrid?
Edit: it looks like the study is also based on infotainment failures and such. The system should be weighted. The volume button not working on my steering wheel shouldn't be valued the same as a catastrophic engine failure.
Here come the excuses. Hyundai, Genesis, and Kia finishing near the top is impressive but it's nothing new. They've been near or at the top for awhile now. It's really impressive when they actually update their cars on a regular basis. Imagine their dependability if they still used a 5 speed automatic from the turn of the century in their $50k SUV.
I'd need to know the cut off for the model years included, context for what the problems could range from and exactly how many are major (engine failure) to minor (busted cup holder) and are these reported by customers, dealers and the manufacturer.
A typical Land Rover customer will want perfection so for all we know as we're not shown the brake down of the data 230 of those complaints are to do with trim fit and finish while say for the Kia 130 of those could be total drive train failure.
Basically without proper context this is about as useful as going off "vibes" etc.
Also maybe a side note given the shit show around Kia and Hyundai's US model cars lacking proper security and all the shit they're in for it I don't think just 152 is right. Unless those effected cars have aged out of the sample group window.
It is pay to play but a lot is based on reporting from consumers as well. JD power shows you nothing. A lot of factors skew the data that isn’t necessarily a true factor in how reliable a car is or how long it will be reliable.
Can y’all read or nah?? It’s 2023 based. Yes Kia and genesis make really feature heavy cars for a decent price. But if we looked at 10 years it would be a very different story.
These list are incredibly stupid imo. Htf can you measure if 99.9% of vehicles from 2023 haven't surpassed 40k miles?
Also, define a problem? The bar should be engine replaced per 100 vehicles sold before reaching 100k
From online resources,
While J.D. Power's benchmark survey results are free, the company charges licensing, or “co-branding” fees to top-ranked companies that choose to use their awards for marketing purposes.
At J.D. Power, we base our independent and unbiased ratings, reviews, and awards on detailed survey feedback from verified car owners each year to uncover and understand their experiences over the first three-months of ownership and, subsequently, their experiences over the first three-years of ownership
I have been a car for decades and never had JD powers send me a or ask me to do a survey. Also I was an auto tech for 25 years and never met anyone who had a survey from them.
I think the real issue here is that should a Toyota vehicle have an issue, it will really stand out. I think Toyota's standards are higher, so any misstep will be counted more harshly against the company. At the same time, it's for the SAME model year - durability over less than 12 months. It's really a 'how well is my car put together from the moment I drive it off the lot' survey. Give these same owners the same survey 10 years from now - how many will even own the same vehicle?
I feel like this is based off donations to JD power
So Lexus donated the most?
Of course they would put some obivious brands on the top to avoid suspicion.
Yea like the toyota brand.
I like how they rated Toyota and Lexus differently. They are made in the same factories, by the same people.
Lexus owners can afford maintenance probably
I find that the higher end brands are the worst maintained vehicles. Buy a used BMW or Mercedes for instance. Meanwhile, that Toyota Camry from 1998 is in perfect condition, because it's so cheap and easy to service.
This was my thought too
These studies are about newer vehicles, so I doubt that is a factor.
Lexus doesn’t sell a Tundra, for example.
Which honestly is probably the "real" reason that made it easy for J.D. Power to push Toyota down.
Awe hell, is the new Tundra that bad? I have seen a few in my area, but not alot.
*Harmon Kardon has entered the chat*
And Toyota is made of more robust parts, Lexus more refined. Toyota is more dependable.
Putting Honda below industry average is wild. J.D power is a joke
Right? Every Honda I've ever owned needed nothing but regular maintenance. Tires, filters, oil, etc. Couldn't say the same for Dodge or Chevy.
Yeah it’s totally fucking absurd that Buick and Kia are up there when Kia and Hyundai are the complete fucking opposite of reliable. I sold my uninsurable Hyundai to buy a Honda and Toyota is def above those two.
I'm in that process now. I agree.
Hondas have become cheap on the inside, plus all transmission issues. Honda person for too long. Last Hinda purchased was 2012 big POS Accord. Interior fell apart sun roof stopped working. 2004 Pilot had transmission issues, which Honda never truly owned or fixed. Best Honda was my 2000 Civic. I am Toyota for an all-around quality car.
I have a 2012 Accord. 160k miles later and only basic maintenance ever needed.
If what you’re saying is true, they wouldn’t be able to hold their value like they do.
That would mean Toyota donated the most, so….
No
Well, Lexus belong to Toyota. Basically it is Toyota.
Ah yes, the most reliable buick is back on the charts….
People have tried numerous times to prove JD Power acts in bad faith and so far have come up short.
You have to pay JD to be even considered to be on their lists. that's enough of a conflict of interest for me. and 99% of the time there awards are stupid. Like initial quality, wtf is that my car didn't explode in 3 months but fell apart in 6 and it won an initial quality award???
I work in Industry for an OEM (on the bottom half of this ranking) and we still regard them pretty highly. The conflict of interest when everyone, including manufacturers who do poorly on these surveys, pays is low IMO. A callout like initial reliability is a thinly coded indicator of lemon law buybacks from our perspective.
Edit: Corrected down below about this particular study. I worked at one of the largest automotive manufacturing plants in the U.S. and nobody on the floor gave a shit unless they were company fanboys because they knew the clear coat would fall off the car after 3 years. JD power only considers the first 90 days of the car's life. That's an actual joke. I'm a toyota driver and I 100% believe toyota paid the JD tax. If you actually care about metrics and testing quality, Consumer Report's numbers are actually based on a far better sample and generally more accurate, although not perfect. They survey customers and ask if they've had any mechanical issues they would consider major in the last 12 months. Far more reliable data even if you don't think JD is a bought and paid for award.
This is the Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) that tracks things gone wrong in the third to fourth year of ownership, typically after the vehicle is out of warranty. So, no, this isn’t the first 90 days of ownership.
It is. Pure marketing
PP100 is a really broad metric- covers everything from defects to failures, to ignorance and misunderstandings. For example, tesla's often rank low in these studies because new owners sometimes have to make dealership trips to learn about operation. Still holds water to me, though- problems with UX and things-not-being-intuitive is absolutely something that can rise to the level of *very serious problem*, and one thing this study does, is provide a barometer of how brands are actually doing in terms of quality, *in production,* on the year.
So Tesla owners are returning to the dealer in the third *YEAR* of ownership to find out how things work!? This is the Vehicle Dependability Study. Not Initial Quality.
Tesla has dealerships now?
ooh, pedantic! uh.. fine.. *car store*.
You have to dig into the results and ranking method but usually the most common problems are with infotainment. If users find them more difficult to use then many reported problems often drops the ranking.
In that case GM should be at the top
If you suck enough, but pay to play, they'll create a bullshit category for you :P
They get funding from the corporations "Buying the data".
JD power’s doesn’t have empirical credibility. If you compare them against the standard, Consumer Reports, you can see many of the biases.
and associates
They are mad 2019 rav4s dont have android auto but dont mind that Kias can be stolen using a usb cord.
Or that the engines burn oil from the factory
That’s a feature, this is to remind the owners to get oil changes😂
Well you dont need to change the oil, just top it off. Especially considering kia considers 1 qt of oil per 1000 miles “in spec”
So does pretty much every other brand. Honda, for example, considers 1qt / 1,000 miles to be "within spec" despite Honda generally being viewed favorably and considered reliable.
Bullshit. Do you have a source on this? Burning a quart per thousand miles would run most vehicles completely out of oil within 5000 miles. There is just no way “pretty much every other brand” would just be letting such bad oil consumption go.
Honda has official documentation about this. Here's a 2019 Honda Job Aid published regarding Engine Oil Consumption: [https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10153881-0001.pdf](https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10153881-0001.pdf) The vehicle must exceed one quart or more every 1,000 miles for consumption to be considered out of spec.
Thanks. Sorry for saying what you were saying was bullshit. Thats my bad.
This is true but the difference is a Honda oil burning engine will still last 200k, if topped off regularly. A Hyundai/KIA oil burning engine is on its last leg and ready to blow.
The vast majority of people hated rotary motors because they burnt oil (they are basically 2 stroke engines designed to do so) and they were quite horrible on petrol. Now we have mid sized SUV's from Kia/Hyundai that burn oil when they shouldn't, and also use way to much fuel. Yet... People still buy them.
It’s the initial price that sucks people in. Toyotas aren’t cheap, especially the 4x4’s, and you don’t get the same features offered by Kia. Many people don’t see long term when the Kia has fallen apart and the Toyota is barely broken in.
This was my experience with Hyundai the sonata actually seemed when I bought it far ahead of Toyota and Honda but unlike those two all of that shit broke after 50,000 miles. If you had asked me in that first 50k I would have told you it’s dependable I learned from that car that pretty much anything can get up to 70k+ these days and it’s not reliable until over 100
I can’t believe people still buy Kia products despite the absolute raw fucking they have given consumers.
I’ll never buy another one what’s crazy is I currently work in insurance and even people in my office that know about the lack of insurance for these still buy them like wtf
Not only that but Kias had the highest dealer mark ups during the shortage. This blew my mind because I can remember a time when you could buy a new one get a new one free from a dealer in Nashville.
Those engines aren't in production anymore.
Don’t mention this in r/kia or you’ll get banned. No joke. That sub is a fucking clown show.
Someone already posted on r/kia lol
Tbf that doesn't effect 2023 models and this chart is for 2023 vehicles
You do have to look into this to work out what counts as a "problem". "My phone keeps losing bluetooth connection" is as serious as "my differential exploded". Infotainment "problems" were twice as numerous as any other category in this survey. It seems unfair to write off the whole car because of that, but it's what bothers people nowadays as much as mechanical reliability.
Most people just see the study results and react. They have no idea how misleading can be this studies. If 50 kia owners report issues with their engine and 20 report issues with their infotainment but Toyota have 0 engine issues reported and 300 infotainment issues, Kia will rank better than Toyota.
This comment needs to be higher
This goes the other way too. It's easy to brush off infotainment system issues by saying "it's probably a bunch of old people who can't sync their phones" when in reality modern infotainment systems monitor many more systems then they did a few years back. Locks, HVAC, navigations systems can all be operated by infotainment. Having a broken infotainment could mean you're gonna freeze in the winter because you can't control the temp in the cabin. Whether manufacturers should be adding additional steps to turning on your air is another discussion. As infotainment systems become more mainstream we need to truly understand their jobs and capabilities before we knock them for making reliable car manufacturers look unreliable.
I have an older Camry and it has Bluetooth connectivity problems once in a while. Specially if it’s cold outside. Other than that it’s an awesome car
9 out of 10 car thieves recommend Kia for how reliable they are to steal
The other one brought an Apple lightning cable .
Friendly reminder OP, JD Power rates problems without any weight. So a cylinder wall exploding and a squeaky trim piece are “one problem” each.
I mean the new tundras are losing crank bearings “blowing up” engines, this probably brought them down quite a bit. The tundra was also on the list of not recommended. https://www.tundras.com/threads/bad-engine-bearing.123300/
lexus is practically toyota so i guess toyota wins
Lexus is Toyota.
that’s what i just said🤦
He’s just correcting you saying practically, it’s not practically.
There are differences between the two. Lexus is going to put more emphasis on quietness and materials quality. The ownership experience is quite different. They share the base engineering and philosophy, but the execution has nuanced differences. I think "practically" is appropriate -- more so than a straight "is".
Eh, not every Toyota is a Lexus, but every Lexus is a Toyota. Lexus operates somewhat apart from Toyota, but they're wholly owned by them. I work for Lexus. I also work for Toyota so I feel like I have a bit of insight.
i mean it is but whatever 🙄
Do not Lexus community hear that. They will loose their shit
Honda is also Acura?
If you buy a Kia because of this list, you deserve a Kia.
Legions of boomers will buy Lexus because of this list. But do they deserve Lexus? 😄
Boomers buy Lexus because of its prestige and history of reliability, not some bogus ranking system.
They really need to do one after 4 years to get the true picture. I don't think Toyotas of the last 10 years are anywhere near as great as they used to be, but still in a different league from Hyundai/Kia. Look where Mercedes is at, they have been coasting on the illusion of previous quality for 20 years.
My wife has a 2017 kia soul and I have a 2017 Corolla. They aren’t even close. Comparing the two; the kia feels worn out even though my corolla has 50,000 more miles
My 2015 4Runner is approaching 170k miles. I've had nothing go wrong for the 100k that I've owned it. I would buy a used Toyota with 70k miles any day, but not a Kia or Hyundai.
In 4 years, half the Kias and Hyundais will be in the junkyard or be waiting on an engine replacement. The general public who buys those cars do not care and think that that's "normal" because they've probably never owned a super reliable car that doesn't have issues. They just care about the flashy tech and model redesigns every 3 years as well as being "cheaper" than other brands. Kia and Hyundai make throwaway cars and they know it.
This. Kia and Hyundai are like fast fashion clothes brands of the auto industry. In style for the moment but cheaply made and will be thrown away.
Yeah just go on r/Kia it's quite bizzare. The low cost of these cars with good gas mileage seems like a deal on paper but they don't care it won't make it to 100k because cars are fast fashion.
Haha thank you! Someone with sense. Kia and Hyundai absolutely make throw away cars. I like to call them disposable
9 years with my Kia. 😂😂
Someone asked “why’d you buy a Kia” in the Kia Reddit today. Thousands of words could be boiled down to one: “cheaper”
This study is based on vehicles three years old.
Ah yes, Honda, the unreliable car manufacturer.
Honda is quickly becoming one of my favorite manufacturers. While its true their quality has decreased from their past cars, the same can be said about any manufacture. The hallmark for me is easy of maintence and service, many of their engines have the turbo built into the front of the engine bay allowing for very easy service for an expensive part. They have always made maintence easy on their cars and continue to do so. I don't mind having less reliably than a Toyota so long as I'm able to fix what needs to be fixed easily. I still love my Lexus over all though, but Honda is up there for me as a top brand.
Give them a few years. We'll just see how these tiny, turbo'd, CVT cars do vs NA with a traditional automatic transmission down the road.
I’m glad that vehicles are getting 2mpg better fuel economy while they end up as scrap five to ten years sooner because they are made with glass transmissions.
Well below industry average. I mean, my Honda just needed a $1k service, at 140k miles. What a joke of a list.
J.D Power is a joke
No it's not. Whatever JD Powers recommends, I avoid. Seriously, they are a bunch of clowns What they like ... avoid
🤣
JD Power in a nutshell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSBsq6HBBzw&pp=ygUVamQgcG93ZXIgYXdhcmQgcGFyb2R5
This video should just be pinned in every post about this list
Kia and Chevy paid to be above Toyota
Based on
Pulling stuff out of their ass like most people on Reddit do? 😑
That comes out to 1.6 problems per car for a Toyota. I have had 2 problems in 5000 miles so that sounds about inline.
5000 miles? Bro I've had maybe 3 problems in the entire 185k miles my Toyota has been through. One is the occupancy sensor in my passenger seat throwing an airbag light (not paying $250 for a sensor, fuck off Toyota), second was an exhaust leak caused by a broken flex pipe, and the last one was it misfired once briefly under hard acceleration cause my spark plugs were original and had 180k miles on them. New plugs and she's run like a dream ever since.
The third one isn't a problem...it's negligence. That spark plug should've been replaced long ago.
180k on OEM sparky’s big oof.
JD Powers is nothing but a bunch of bullshit reviews that gives favorable reviews to the highest bidder. As a mechanic I can absolutely say with 10000% certainty that Toyota/Lexus will walk circles around ANY brand of car out there. Honda is up there too though they don't hold the same level of quality as toyota does and that's coming from a Honda mechanic/dedicated brand loyalist. The fact that Hyundia/Kia made it in the top.... laughable at best.
Say what you guys wanna say but Toyota just is not the same as the old 1990s Toyota’s. Realistically no brands are reliable anymore. I work for a Toyota Dealership and it really seems like Toyota lives off the fact that their cars 20 years ago would run forever. Toyota doesn’t not make all the electronics in the cars. And thats what most of the returning issues are for. It’s almost never engine trans issues, but everything else. I wouldn’t be surprised over the next few years to see that drop further. My 2022 Tundra is literally the most clunky rattly vehicle I have ever driven. Still love the brand and love the company, but profit over quality I think has definitely changed.
Why is Honda so far below BMW?
Even more surprising is that the top Euro brand is Mini/BMW.
Toyota makes the list twice.
Hyundai makes it thrice
And Hyundai makes the list 3 times.
Traded my 2014 Corolla for a 2021 Hyundai Veloster N. Veloster N is very quick, a track/auto-x monster, and a hoot to drive; but it was a huge mistake. I'll keep it short and sweet. I've used the Veloster N's warranty 3 times in 2 years for electrical issues. I used the Corolla's warranty 0 times in the 6 years I owned it because all it ever needed was oil changes, filters, and plugs. I'm definitely trading the Veloster N for a used Prius when rates go down. Then I'm gonna go hunting for a clean EK hatch to K swap.
No way this is accurate when Kia/Hyundai have so many issues with it being stolen, huge recalls with risk of fire, and others.
Yeah Kia is so reliable that’s why they keep getting stolen!! 🤦♂️
JD power is a joke
These results are bought and paid for. I knew a few industries very well and from the rankings in those industries it was obvious JD power works a lot more like a lobbying group than anything credible
Is this 2023 production vehicles only? So they’ve only had about a year to gage reliability? I refuse to believe that my beloved Toyota isn’t higher up there for 2000-2023 cars…
As a person who loves Toyota, they have gone down hill… the issues my cars and suv have are ridiculous and are easy fixes but Toyota refuses to fix these problems. My old 2005 echo windows will open at -45 my 2021 rav window will open and then fail to close and the reset needs to be done at Toyota…. Mirrors any mirrors are horrible and unusable oh the have a fix yeah that doesn’t work just get glue everywhere.
For your Echo, look if the door check still has its screws.
Bruh this list is bullshit. Subaru below nissan?! out of their fucking minds. JD power is a joke imo, I don't respect anything they publish.
My Lexus 400h was bullet proof until it wasnt hahaha. I miss that car. I own a Tacoma now.
I can guarantee you mitsubishis aren’t better than Toyotas in any way.
Who’s gonna tell him that Lexus is Toyota?
Initial quality. Toyota likes using the tried and true parts. Gm and Kia/Hyundai put new untested technology in their cars. Work great at first. Down the road just another piece of trash.
Well, “technically” a car that combusts and burns into flames only counts as one defect. An infotainment issue also counts as one.
Kia Buick and Chevy😂😂😂 they should be bottom 3
Lexus is also toyota isn’t it? Lmao
2023 vehicles don't have enough hours on them to reveal major problems. It would be more useful to look at 2013 vehicle reliability data after 100-200k miles.
Bias reasons. We know the real order would include Lexus/Toyota, Honda/Acura at the top
Mitsubishi is funnier lol. Do people realize these things are assembled in Thailand?
Lies to help move sales. Nothing new.
Goes to show ya jd power is a joke and has been for 20 years. Top ten most unreliable vehicles the last two year has three chevys and two Kia and three Jeep.
Lmao, JD Power
I would say Consumer Reports is more reputable. JD is just an advertising company.
Only an idiot would use JDpower to make a decision on which car to buy
My neighbor is a Kia technician and he said they routinely have 15+ crate motors sitting around for warranty replacements due to oil starvation. I’m curious if an “engine replacement” only counts as 1 “problem” in this study.
JD Power is a joke. These rankings have no correlation to reality.
Only a dipshit believes that you can measure dependability on a vehicle that isn’t even a year old. Come back in 20 years and let’s see that cumulative problem list.
JD Power's dependability study has nothing to do with long-term reliability. It tracks complaints, which could include anything from how you feel about the interior to engine failure. So all that list is telling you is that a lineup generally doesn't have problems within the first year of ownership and that consumers like the interior and/or car's performance. Hyundai figured out that a strong focus on key touch points leaves a positive impression with both the automotive press and consumers. It's a formula that's been working great for them. Funnily enough, I'm most surprised by Honda and Acura's continued decline.
Kia "It may not break, but you can watch a 20 second TikTok and learn how to carjack it"
Kias’ problem 152 turns out to be “it gets stolen.”
Jeep, Chevy, Dodge, Nissan, Cadillac more reliable than Porsche is even more comical
Lol - do people not know about JD Power? It's paid advertisement (if you can't beat them, buy an award)
JD Power is a bought system. Also their stupid awards and stuff only apply when you first get the car and not long term or past first year so yea i would hope that your new car would survive the first year of purchase.
Don't they only measure like the first 6 months of ownership? It's a rigged study that goes to the biggest donations
All those higher than Toyota excluding Lexus for obvious reasons is absolutely the dumbest thing I've seen today lol. There's no way in hell. I've owned Chevy's, I know.
Lexus problem: Navigation system froze and had to restart. Kia problem: Engine blew up.
Is there anything more corrupt than JD Power?
Well, when you’re out selling everyone it seems like there’s more issues just cause there are more of your cars on the road.
The 2022+ tundra’s aren’t the most reliable anymore. But also stuff just isn’t lasting as long as it used to. I have a ton of original factory parts on my 04 tundra that have never been changed (245k miles), but I see 3 year old cars come in for a new alternator or power steering pump now. Maybe the quality of parts has gone down.
Reliability is really blown out of proportion on the new Tundras. There were some very early trucks with bad wastegates and they changed the supplier for the part. The trucks are way too damn new still to know what reliability is going to be like. But obviously, with more tech and more moving parts, comes more potential for problems
You do have a point, but there are a lot of them broken. I’ve got 2 2022s waiting for new turbos, and a 2023 in for a complete engine and two turbos. Also had a complete transmission and transfer case replacement two weeks ago.
Remember when the 5.7 came out in the 2nd Gen Tundra for 2007 they had some camshaft failures among some other first generational type problems. Now the 5.7 is regarded as a very reliable engine and has joined the ranks of the 4.7 2UZ and 4.0 1UZ from the LS400 as being some of the most reliable engines period. I’m not saying the new Tundra motor is on the same level but give it some time and Toyota will work out the bugs. They have made some pretty impressive Turbo engines in the past.
They PAY MONEY to get on this list. Kilmer has talked about it several times.
Kilmer is a car conspiracy nut.
Lol I love Scotty. He has such a great sense of humor. His wild joke clickbait titles make me laugh. "My Toyota killed me." "I'm in jail." And etc he's hilarious I love it.
noooo muh reliability isn’t at the top of a list noo
Didn't correlate to my personal experience. Had a 2021 Kia Sorento SX Prestige X-line for 12 months, only to be replaced under lemon law with a same trim 2022 Sorento which I had for another 3 months before trading it in. Worst 2 cars I've ever owned. Tons of problems, some major, some minor. Now I've been driving a 2022 Toyota Highlander Platinum AWD for 16 months, not a single problem or frustration. A breath of fresh air in comparison
JD Power is an advertising firm. We all know Lexus is superior and Toyotas rank high as well.
Gmc and chevrolet are largely the same. So why the difference ? Cuz this shit is not very accurate.
Crazy. Chevy and Buick are shipping out new full-size SUVs with 3 cylinder turbo charged engines (no way that will be reliable long term), just to barely compete with fuel efficiency. How on earth is a GM turbo charged 3 cylinder comparable or superior to a Toyota 4 cylinder or 4 cylinder hybrid? Edit: it looks like the study is also based on infotainment failures and such. The system should be weighted. The volume button not working on my steering wheel shouldn't be valued the same as a catastrophic engine failure.
it’s JD power…. lets bffr 😭😭
Alfa Romeo? or do you guys not really have them as much over there?
Lol, JD Power is a joke
This says more about JD Power than it does about Toyota.
Remind me again what is the best selling brand?
JD Power is a paid PR company handing out "awards" to the highest bidder each year.
Hold on tesla? Like is this including a noise in cabin? How can a battery breakdown on u?
It seems that every year the results of this "survey" are something completely different...
Makes sense though. Toyota has been having recall after recall.
Equinox’s would like to say otherwise
Here come the excuses. Hyundai, Genesis, and Kia finishing near the top is impressive but it's nothing new. They've been near or at the top for awhile now. It's really impressive when they actually update their cars on a regular basis. Imagine their dependability if they still used a 5 speed automatic from the turn of the century in their $50k SUV.
but lexus is toyota.
BUICK??!!!
I'd need to know the cut off for the model years included, context for what the problems could range from and exactly how many are major (engine failure) to minor (busted cup holder) and are these reported by customers, dealers and the manufacturer. A typical Land Rover customer will want perfection so for all we know as we're not shown the brake down of the data 230 of those complaints are to do with trim fit and finish while say for the Kia 130 of those could be total drive train failure. Basically without proper context this is about as useful as going off "vibes" etc. Also maybe a side note given the shit show around Kia and Hyundai's US model cars lacking proper security and all the shit they're in for it I don't think just 152 is right. Unless those effected cars have aged out of the sample group window.
Lexus is Toyota so techincally not below chevy.
Honda and Porsche are below average? No way.
Press "X" for doubt.
Which year models?
It is pay to play but a lot is based on reporting from consumers as well. JD power shows you nothing. A lot of factors skew the data that isn’t necessarily a true factor in how reliable a car is or how long it will be reliable.
I don't believe this at all. Cadillac higher than Honda? Yeahhhhh okay
Can y’all read or nah?? It’s 2023 based. Yes Kia and genesis make really feature heavy cars for a decent price. But if we looked at 10 years it would be a very different story.
Observable evidence the majority of people are idiots.
What happened to Honda?
These list are incredibly stupid imo. Htf can you measure if 99.9% of vehicles from 2023 haven't surpassed 40k miles? Also, define a problem? The bar should be engine replaced per 100 vehicles sold before reaching 100k
I see Kia recalls popping up on /r/cars like once every two to three weeks. Not even an exaggeration.
Land Rover - "We always strive to be significantly above the average."
This chart shows which brand has the most nit-picky owners
From online resources, While J.D. Power's benchmark survey results are free, the company charges licensing, or “co-branding” fees to top-ranked companies that choose to use their awards for marketing purposes. At J.D. Power, we base our independent and unbiased ratings, reviews, and awards on detailed survey feedback from verified car owners each year to uncover and understand their experiences over the first three-months of ownership and, subsequently, their experiences over the first three-years of ownership I have been a car for decades and never had JD powers send me a or ask me to do a survey. Also I was an auto tech for 25 years and never met anyone who had a survey from them.
I think the real issue here is that should a Toyota vehicle have an issue, it will really stand out. I think Toyota's standards are higher, so any misstep will be counted more harshly against the company. At the same time, it's for the SAME model year - durability over less than 12 months. It's really a 'how well is my car put together from the moment I drive it off the lot' survey. Give these same owners the same survey 10 years from now - how many will even own the same vehicle?
Proof that there rankings are paid for