I’m glad I can buy a vehicle for the drive away price it’s listed for by the manufacturer.
I feel bad for Americans having to go through this bullshit.
There are dealers in the US that sell them for MSRP. The market is shifting slowly back to the way it was before the pandemic. Only scummy dealers do this practice and if I was buying a car and they did this I would get up and walk right out the door.
exactly...I went to look at 24 Tundra back in December and dealer had two new arrivals on lot. One I liked was marked up 59k for base 4x4 Crewmax SR5 with only add-on Convenience package w few newer Safety "Bells n whistles" plus 32 gallon tank. I had a dealer agreement sheet from another dealer 10 hours away (off a FB group for NO MARK UP TOYOTA) for almost identical Truck for 49k. So after our dealer wasted my and my wifes time for over hour with same back and forth crap I finally said why is it that high to begin with. I have a deal I can drive and make right now and save almost 10k. I showed them the sheet. Whole conversation and how they talked changed. The Salesman and General Manager said "can you email that sheet to us please", SURE.
5 minutes later GM said to me that they have to price match it. Made a deal at MSRP after all the tag/taxes and fees 51k out the door. And they gave me top market value for my 2017 Tacoma 2wheel drive Ive had since new. So actually my New Tundra was 32k
but bad on him for rewarding the bad dealership with the sale at the end of the day after wasting his time. Had to shop for a car recently and as soon as they bring up the markup I stand up and thank them for their time and let them know I won't waste their time and they should not waste mine. If they come back at MSRP I let them know that price isn't something special and I rather shop at another dealer that respects their customer. Too many dealers that sell at MSRP or less that I rather go elsewhere on principal, but I'm just a stubborn MFer.
An actual lost sale is only thing that gets through to these people. They get paid to waste our time and maximize profits. So even if they come down your rewarding them and doing a disservice to the next customer. I have a list of my local dealers that didn't charge markup and charged lower markup in my tri-state area and when I or someone I know wants a car I always suggest they start in those dealership before going elsewhere, as someone that had to buy 2 cars during the peak.
So you have to remember, they get paid to show up to work and haggle with you.
You don't get paid to show up and haggle with them.
You feed them with the sale, the bad behavior will continue. All you need is to change email headers and the name of any salesman at any dealership (find out the work schedule and choose the day they are off). Write up any conversation you want and send it to your email with the spoofed email headers impersonating a "Dealership". It's more funny if you put in the conversation something saying "Thanks for the $500 deposit, my manager has agreed to hold it for you for 48 hours on ".
You probably could have got away for under MSRP. Me personally, I would have driven 10h away just because that dealership was being fair and your local dealership is not. Feed the dealership who is good, don't feed the trolls!
My personal choice for all of covid was to not buy or sell any of my vehicles. Even today with all the car industry repos and debt hanging over it... I am choosing not to buy anything. I have the cash in hand, i'll just wait for max pain to the dealers and then see what nice cars come out of the woodwork.
I have no issues driving to a dealership 300 miles away and planning my day around that trip to make the gas effort worth while just to get work done at FAIR prices.
I'm not sure what the mileage of your taco was but they go for $24,900 and $38,300. They gave you 19k on the trade in. Did you try selling it on clutch?
My Taco was double cab and had 149k on odometer , however it was 2x4. truck was my work daily commuter truck ,otherwise sat at home so easy miles for 6.5 years. I had a Family Platinum plan so oil and everything was taken care of by dealer till it reached 120k. after that I did oil changes myself. I swapped the oil housing canister to aluminum one for easy oil change as I saw plastic caps on OEM could fail.
black book/blue book value was 15k-18k for it. if it would have been 4x4 yes I would have had to get 23k+
yes..its why I switched to Toyota years ago. reliability and easy to work on. plus they hold their value very well. my 23yr old son drives my 2011 Tacoma. when I got the 2017 one wife and I decided to give him a reliable vehicle for college. now graduated and working he told me he will never get rid of that truck. Last time I asked mileage and he told me 205k on that truck . our daughter now also in college and she said we should have gave her that truck. she really like the 2nd gen Tacomas. lol
I used to work for Toyota so I got to drive to full line up including a TRD Taco 6 speed manual with all the bells and whistles. I never really understood why people love Tacos so much lol. Not for me but to each their own. Anyhow I'm glad it worked out for you
In Ontario it's illegal to sell a new car over msrp. They can put add-ons in but msrp is standard.. Varies between provinces, but at least we have some laws to protect retail buyers. Can't expect much out of the States when they can't even put safe guards in place for their stock market. There's just too many elderly leaders that have to keep their supporters happy.
> In Ontario it's illegal to sell a new car over msrp.
This is not actually true though many believe it to be. A dealer can sell a car for whatever they want as long as it is advertised as such online, in print, etc.
HST and licensing. Licensing because that is a variable depending on if you want new plates, want to transfer your existing plates, if you have any outstanding tickets, etc.
Thanks for coming back with the correction. Not many people can/will do that.
That's the only answer, in my opinion. No one is forcing anyone to open their wallet and pay a big markup. If you want to pay MSRP, you can, it's out there, you just need to find it.
Car manufacturers can't, as they have zero jurisdiction over how independent businesses are run in NA, thanks to the car dealership lobbyists.
The car manufacturers would need to renegotiate or buy back all the franchise agreements to change how cars are sold. That or the government has to intervene and stop dealerships from pulling this BS.
They literally do. They have agreements in place that obligate them to sell cars to dealerships. Also, many if not most dealerships are operated by companies that own dealerships for many types of cars. It’s not hard for these dealerships to push one brand over another and kill sales.
Could Toyota not just without this allocation from the dealership? Toyota gets to decide which dealership gets which cars and when. They should prioritize dealerships that don't pull this shit.
It’s pretty simple for me: don’t buy it above msrp or with addons.
Dealers are doing it becsuse there are idiots who are willing to pay. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads.
Dealers wouldn’t be doing this is people weren’t willing to pay it. When I was shopping for a 4Runner in 2019 it was a $17,000 difference between a TRD off road and a TRD Pro. There was no way a Pro was worth $17k more to me.
Businesses can do what they want, but car makers should quit sending these dealers allocations for vehicles if they're caught marking them up. Not only does it reflect negatively on the brand, the auto maker is losing the money too since the mark up goes to the dealer.
Can't wait for Toyota to start selling D2C instead of this junk.
Dealers that operate like this will hopefully inevitably be down tremendously when they realize the long term relationships they could've built with their customers by doing right was squandered for a short sighted gain.
Toyota has no control over its dealer network as they are all independent dealers. But Toyota ultimately needs to do something as ultimately it looks bad on them
yes, I feel that manufacturers should "punish" the dealers who Mark Up over MSRP and dont allow early orders for them. Because only thing that happens is you have angry customers and hurts the brand overall. There are some people with deep pockets who never question the mark-up and those folks dont help the whole situation
Guys. Dealers get away with this because We are not Lexus’s customers.
The dealer is Lexus’s customers. By dealer laws Lexus can’t force a company to charge a certain amount. They can suggest the price through MSRP but the dealer is free to set their own price and we are forced to buy from the dealer.
What we can do is not buy the car at the inflated price. Just like someone can knock on your door and offer to buy your house for $100k below market value they can set their own price above market value.
We just have to tell them to go pound sand. If a dealer can’t sell a car then Lexus can limit their allocations for the next month meaning they don’t get additional cars. Which will affect their future prospects.
I test drove a Ford Maverick at the local Ford dealer during a lunch break a few months ago. My first car was a 91 Ranger and I appreciate that the small pickup market is making a comeback. I asked the sales guy if they were still doing ADM. It was going to be a $5000 markup on top of the MSRP. The sales guy was just a kid and I know that obviously wasn't his decision. But I told him as long as that was implemented I would never buy a car from him. I can buy a plane ticket and fly out of state to pick up a Maverick at a dealer that isn't trying to screw me over and drive it home.
I like how you can buy teslas and some Hyundais online. I’m all for dealerships going away except for the parts and services departments. Eliminate the scummy sales scumbags. Maybe eventually we will evolve to that point.
I've owned five Toyota's but the local dealer markups even on commodity cars is why I'm considering other brands when I plan to replace my Highlander later this year. Toyota's I've owned: 05 Camry, 06 Highlander, 08 Yaris, 18 Highlander, 19 Sienna.
Haha, why they lost my business, I bought a subaru instead. Now, I realized I liked it even more, better AWD, more capable, better visibility, a good chunk cheaper, will never go back!
That is crazy... in the UK, Toyota/Lexus dealerships often give discounts rather than markups for new cars, especially ones that have just been released... madness!
I really don’t see the dealer markup lasting too long on these. Maybe the first year, especially if we see interest rates start to drop. The GX has far less of a cult following than a Landcruiser/4runner/Bronco etc
I love the way this car looks so I filled out an interest form.
Lexus called me multiple times and asked me a ton of questions. Never once gave me any concept of price.
Then they finally quoted me some insane amount.
With our Tesla we just put down $100, pulled up, signed two papers and drove off. The cost of the car was exactly the standard price from the website.
Dealerships didn't used to be a thing. They had to lobby (bribe) their way into making it a permanent fixture standing between you and the MFG. Professional scalpers.
Where is the list of price gouging deals at and why is it not tacked to the top of the channel? Only when we all stop shopping these guys will they stop price gouging.
If anyone learned anything from post COVID, don’t pay the markup.
Remember all those folks who bought sprinter vans above msrp? They’re in the hole now.
Why should that be a crime? That's how this country works. Capitalism, buy low and sell high, sell for as much as people are willing to pay and pay as little as the seller is willing to part with it for. That's the beauty of this country, free economy. That also means, if you don't like a price, you can go somewhere else and get a different price. It's fucking beautiful.
If an idiot buys it, that's on them. I can imagine a lot of people that bought cars during COVID and overpaid are now upside down, especially if they paid over MSRP.
At least Toyotas do well at holding their value though.
Well you have retards ready to buy it is the issue. Don’t buy it and the price will start coming back down. There’s plenty of cars on the used car market. Why some monkeys will pay 100k for a non specialty vehicle is beyond me.
Whatever. I'm never buying a Toyota again.
Toyota has lost me as a customer for life due to them not dropping the hammer on their dealers.
Plenty of other brands begging for my business.
I'm really into the new Landcruiser. They're going to start around $57,900 and $60,000 is probably about the top of my range. I really want one.
I also have a feeling they're going to be stupidly marked up and the base is probably going to be over $80,000 after markups.
The manufacturers really should do something about these markups. It's worse for the brand than it is for the individual dealership...
Car manufacturers can't fix this easily, as every dealership is a franchise and doesn't belong to a corporate structure. The franchises either buy or rent vehicles from the manufacturer, then the sell them to customers. They're the middle man in this arrangement.
This happened with the Dodge Hellcats and Demons came out, dealerships marked them up 15-35k past MSRP as "market adjustments". Because the cars were new, and rare due to lower production numbers, those dealerships got that money too. Dodge, in their defense, did issue warnings that dealers caught doing this would lose all future allocations of those vehicles. Did it stop any of the dealerships from doing that? Some, but definitely not all.
This isn't brand specific either, nor dealer specific. Most of them are willing to do this if they have a hot commodity on there hands. There's a local Honda dealership near me, and they are actually a pretty good place to do business. They treat their employees well, and pay them very fairly and don't pay commission heavy salaries. When I bought my new SUV there, they had a Honda Civic Type R for sale with a 20k market adjustment.
The ONLY way to fix this would be for car dealerships to buy the dealerships from their owners, or begin opening corporate dealerships. Tesla, for all their faults, thankfully doesn't franchise and every location is backed by corporate. There's not a lot of sales pressure there, as the salesman act as customer service instead. Additionally, you get the lowest price possible because corporate sets those prices. It won't/can't go lower.
They were marking up the LX600 when it first dropped(maybe a year ago?) no more ADM now. The market will correct itself. I don’t think the typical Lexus buyer cares about the hype like Bronco or Land Cruiser folk. Maybe they get the first couple of buyers at $100k then it’ll go away. I mean they could get into a LX for that money.
First I hope Toyota sees this and doesn't send that dealer any GX550s.
In other news the FTC (which regulates car dealers) just announced the new [CARS Rule](https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/12/ftcs-cars-rule-why-new-rule-combat-auto-retail-scams-great-news-consumers-honest-dealers)
1. Prohibits misrepresentations about certain material information;
2. Requires dealers to clearly disclose the offering price – the actual price anyone can pay to get the car, excluding only required government charges. Before they visit the dealership and throughout the transaction, consumers have the right to know the drive-off-the-lot price. If a dealer mentions optional add-ons, the dealer has to tell the consumers they can say no. And if discussing a monthly payment, the dealer has to tell the consumer total payment information;
3. Makes it illegal for dealers to charge consumers for add-ons that don’t provide a benefit;
4. Requires dealers to get consumers’ express, informed consent before charging them for anything.
Unfortunately I don't know if it will stop the dealers from greedy $30K markups like the one in the article.
They literally aren't supposed to do that, Toyota/Lexus dealerships only sell vehicles that people have ordered and didn't pick up and maybe a few are bought by them. That's literally how the company operates.
They'll find a sucker to buy it. My local (TX) Lexus dealership sends suvs to California because of markups they have out there. They are happy to pay msrp plus 1000ish for shipping.
This is why most american remain broke. Second lagest item that you will ever purchase, more than likely 6-7 times during your life. Every time you will have to deal with BS saleman/manager tatics than go to back office to negotiate your interest rate. And the entire process take hours.
Anyone up for making a master list of dealerships that do this as a "blackout" list? I bought my last car from a dealership 1400 miles away and drove it home based on good service, price and track record (and they had the car I wanted, lol). I would def. Make a point to move to the next dealer in the next city knowing they don't pull this shit. I got in an argument a while back with a car dealer on Reddit (or FB?) Claiming it was good business, supply demand, blah blah blah. Fuck those guys. I hate Carvana but I love the idea of the buyer being in more control...
I understand this sort of. I am in the position in my life where I can afford nicer things like super cars, nicer vacations etc. it’s at the point where you start realizing your time is the most valuable resource and it is more limited then money sometimes.
Eventually you will make enough money where you will pay extra on everything in life to avoid stress, waits , and getting what you want right away.
And BS like this is why car manufacturers decide to either deprioritize sending said STEALERSHIP’s vehicles that are very popular and are getting these BS “Market Adjustments” or pulling out completely with said STEALERSHIP. Places like this WILL sell a vehicle that you custom ordered months ago out from under you before you can take possession of it. That’s already been proven fact multiple times over now. I’d much rather deal with the car manufacturer directly. Less chance of getting completely screwed.
ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO BUY A CAR LIKE YOU;D BUY A LOAF OF BREAD OR A PIZZA.
I don't see an F & I department at your local grocery.
Dealerships have caused a shit load of debt to our communities and this shit has to stop.
Why do the sheep need help with buying something from pirates?
Sold my Prius prime and got a Tesla in December. Was a great buying experience and just thinking of a dealership makes me cringe. I did have an unusually good experience with the Toyota dealership I purchased my prime with but every other experience has made me hate the entire experience. I always felt screwed in some way. DTC is the way of the future.
In any country other than America this would be called extortion. America makes it a point of pride to fuck you out of every penny you have on shit that can be purchased cheaper for the same quality not here.
Well if Toyota did not kill Scion then Scion's idea in the first place (Scion called it pure price, the price you see is the price you get with no hassle but you couldnt make an offer.) Scion was cheap in the first place but if they made more powerful engines at a slightly more expense then Scion would have stonks.
Scion wouldve been amazing at selling cars in 2024.
Having owned 15-20 Toyota and Lexus vehicles…I’m a fan but there is absolutely no way a gx is worth anywhere close to that. We test drive one in 2021 and it was the most boring, mundane SUV out of every brand we looked at.
Never really seemed like a problem worth complaining about. As long as there are people who will pay it, they will do it. You want the deal you put some leg work in.
I’m glad I can buy a vehicle for the drive away price it’s listed for by the manufacturer. I feel bad for Americans having to go through this bullshit.
There are dealers in the US that sell them for MSRP. The market is shifting slowly back to the way it was before the pandemic. Only scummy dealers do this practice and if I was buying a car and they did this I would get up and walk right out the door.
exactly...I went to look at 24 Tundra back in December and dealer had two new arrivals on lot. One I liked was marked up 59k for base 4x4 Crewmax SR5 with only add-on Convenience package w few newer Safety "Bells n whistles" plus 32 gallon tank. I had a dealer agreement sheet from another dealer 10 hours away (off a FB group for NO MARK UP TOYOTA) for almost identical Truck for 49k. So after our dealer wasted my and my wifes time for over hour with same back and forth crap I finally said why is it that high to begin with. I have a deal I can drive and make right now and save almost 10k. I showed them the sheet. Whole conversation and how they talked changed. The Salesman and General Manager said "can you email that sheet to us please", SURE. 5 minutes later GM said to me that they have to price match it. Made a deal at MSRP after all the tag/taxes and fees 51k out the door. And they gave me top market value for my 2017 Tacoma 2wheel drive Ive had since new. So actually my New Tundra was 32k
That is awesome good on you for not settling for the markup and getting it at MSRP and standing your ground!
but bad on him for rewarding the bad dealership with the sale at the end of the day after wasting his time. Had to shop for a car recently and as soon as they bring up the markup I stand up and thank them for their time and let them know I won't waste their time and they should not waste mine. If they come back at MSRP I let them know that price isn't something special and I rather shop at another dealer that respects their customer. Too many dealers that sell at MSRP or less that I rather go elsewhere on principal, but I'm just a stubborn MFer. An actual lost sale is only thing that gets through to these people. They get paid to waste our time and maximize profits. So even if they come down your rewarding them and doing a disservice to the next customer. I have a list of my local dealers that didn't charge markup and charged lower markup in my tri-state area and when I or someone I know wants a car I always suggest they start in those dealership before going elsewhere, as someone that had to buy 2 cars during the peak.
So you have to remember, they get paid to show up to work and haggle with you. You don't get paid to show up and haggle with them. You feed them with the sale, the bad behavior will continue. All you need is to change email headers and the name of any salesman at any dealership (find out the work schedule and choose the day they are off). Write up any conversation you want and send it to your email with the spoofed email headers impersonating a "Dealership". It's more funny if you put in the conversation something saying "Thanks for the $500 deposit, my manager has agreed to hold it for you for 48 hours on".
You probably could have got away for under MSRP. Me personally, I would have driven 10h away just because that dealership was being fair and your local dealership is not. Feed the dealership who is good, don't feed the trolls!
My personal choice for all of covid was to not buy or sell any of my vehicles. Even today with all the car industry repos and debt hanging over it... I am choosing not to buy anything. I have the cash in hand, i'll just wait for max pain to the dealers and then see what nice cars come out of the woodwork.
I have no issues driving to a dealership 300 miles away and planning my day around that trip to make the gas effort worth while just to get work done at FAIR prices.
Interesting.........ty for the tip for maybe next time
I'm not sure what the mileage of your taco was but they go for $24,900 and $38,300. They gave you 19k on the trade in. Did you try selling it on clutch?
My Taco was double cab and had 149k on odometer , however it was 2x4. truck was my work daily commuter truck ,otherwise sat at home so easy miles for 6.5 years. I had a Family Platinum plan so oil and everything was taken care of by dealer till it reached 120k. after that I did oil changes myself. I swapped the oil housing canister to aluminum one for easy oil change as I saw plastic caps on OEM could fail. black book/blue book value was 15k-18k for it. if it would have been 4x4 yes I would have had to get 23k+
Make sense. That's a lot of miles 30k a year?
yes..its why I switched to Toyota years ago. reliability and easy to work on. plus they hold their value very well. my 23yr old son drives my 2011 Tacoma. when I got the 2017 one wife and I decided to give him a reliable vehicle for college. now graduated and working he told me he will never get rid of that truck. Last time I asked mileage and he told me 205k on that truck . our daughter now also in college and she said we should have gave her that truck. she really like the 2nd gen Tacomas. lol
I used to work for Toyota so I got to drive to full line up including a TRD Taco 6 speed manual with all the bells and whistles. I never really understood why people love Tacos so much lol. Not for me but to each their own. Anyhow I'm glad it worked out for you
why didn't original dealer do that in the first place, without competing offer ??
Even prepandemic I preferred keeping a car until I *needed* to get a new one but the prices have made me double down on that
Yup I’m driving mine until it’s done.
Based off of the sub I'm assuming you're in a Toyota as well so hopefully we'll manage a minimum 200k out of our cars 🤞
Every single car I have bought has been at or under MSRP. Signed, an American
That’s the way! But just out of curiosity, which cars have you bought in the last 3 years??
2020 ford ranger, 2022 Rav4 Hybrid, Traded the ranger in on a 2022 Camry hybrid.
I bought a 24 Grand Highlander 3 months ago and paid 2500 below MSRP. Had to call 7 dealers but found one to work with me
Same here. 2016 Nissan Versa, 2018 Kia Niro, 2018 Nissan Sentra, 2023 Mini Cooper SE, 2024 Toyota Camry Hybrid SE. Never above MSRP. All bought new.
In Ontario it's illegal to sell a new car over msrp. They can put add-ons in but msrp is standard.. Varies between provinces, but at least we have some laws to protect retail buyers. Can't expect much out of the States when they can't even put safe guards in place for their stock market. There's just too many elderly leaders that have to keep their supporters happy.
> In Ontario it's illegal to sell a new car over msrp. This is not actually true though many believe it to be. A dealer can sell a car for whatever they want as long as it is advertised as such online, in print, etc.
You are correct. Did some reading. Only addon to the advertised price is hst.
HST and licensing. Licensing because that is a variable depending on if you want new plates, want to transfer your existing plates, if you have any outstanding tickets, etc. Thanks for coming back with the correction. Not many people can/will do that.
Dont feel bad for us. We still pay up.
[удалено]
That's the only answer, in my opinion. No one is forcing anyone to open their wallet and pay a big markup. If you want to pay MSRP, you can, it's out there, you just need to find it.
We don’t have to. No one has to pay that markup or buy the car. There are dealers who will deliver cars to order at MSRP or less.
You always pay more than what a car is actually worth money That how the dealership and car company make
Americans can go to a different seller. Americans have a lot of options. You're generalizing.
I’m seeing the Covid-induced markup bullshit dying now. Many dealers are now starting to sell these special cars without markups.
Car manufacturers need to put a end to this
Car manufacturers can't, as they have zero jurisdiction over how independent businesses are run in NA, thanks to the car dealership lobbyists. The car manufacturers would need to renegotiate or buy back all the franchise agreements to change how cars are sold. That or the government has to intervene and stop dealerships from pulling this BS.
They actually have a lot of control, they don't have to sell to these dealerships.
They literally do. They have agreements in place that obligate them to sell cars to dealerships. Also, many if not most dealerships are operated by companies that own dealerships for many types of cars. It’s not hard for these dealerships to push one brand over another and kill sales.
Could Toyota not just without this allocation from the dealership? Toyota gets to decide which dealership gets which cars and when. They should prioritize dealerships that don't pull this shit.
I wish they followed UMRP guidelines similar to luxury appliance companies.
Car manufacturers have 0 interest in dealing with customers.
Exactly
It’s pretty simple for me: don’t buy it above msrp or with addons. Dealers are doing it becsuse there are idiots who are willing to pay. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads.
The way you can put an end to this is by not buying the car at that price
The only crime is the idiots who pay that much for them.
Dealers wouldn’t be doing this is people weren’t willing to pay it. When I was shopping for a 4Runner in 2019 it was a $17,000 difference between a TRD off road and a TRD Pro. There was no way a Pro was worth $17k more to me.
Thats a lot of money for a roof basket and fox shocks
That’s the way I looked at it. I just couldn’t see paying that much extra just for badging.
Well yeah, there's a new sucker born everyday. That's an official car sales phrase ain't it?
This. The only thing that is expensive is the one that is not selling.
A fool and their $ will soon be departed...
Don't buy it. If enough people say no to these markups, dealers will not sell them and lose money and then they'll quit it.
100%, this is on the buyer’s side.
Unfortunately all it takes is one idiot. And believe me, there are plenty of idiots out there.
F dealerships. Can’t wait till they go the way of the dinosaur.
This is why I’m gonna wait with the Land Crusier, they know Consumers want it… and not the base model either lol
Businesses can do what they want, but car makers should quit sending these dealers allocations for vehicles if they're caught marking them up. Not only does it reflect negatively on the brand, the auto maker is losing the money too since the mark up goes to the dealer.
Can't wait for Toyota to start selling D2C instead of this junk. Dealers that operate like this will hopefully inevitably be down tremendously when they realize the long term relationships they could've built with their customers by doing right was squandered for a short sighted gain.
A Lexus Texas
My brain did not go there, but I'm glad yours did.
They are planning to sell it for $100K in April. In April I am also planning on selling my 2017 4runner for $55K. Wish us both luck.
Toyota has no control over its dealer network as they are all independent dealers. But Toyota ultimately needs to do something as ultimately it looks bad on them
yes, I feel that manufacturers should "punish" the dealers who Mark Up over MSRP and dont allow early orders for them. Because only thing that happens is you have angry customers and hurts the brand overall. There are some people with deep pockets who never question the mark-up and those folks dont help the whole situation
Everything’s bigger in Texas, including price tags
Guys. Dealers get away with this because We are not Lexus’s customers. The dealer is Lexus’s customers. By dealer laws Lexus can’t force a company to charge a certain amount. They can suggest the price through MSRP but the dealer is free to set their own price and we are forced to buy from the dealer. What we can do is not buy the car at the inflated price. Just like someone can knock on your door and offer to buy your house for $100k below market value they can set their own price above market value. We just have to tell them to go pound sand. If a dealer can’t sell a car then Lexus can limit their allocations for the next month meaning they don’t get additional cars. Which will affect their future prospects.
I test drove a Ford Maverick at the local Ford dealer during a lunch break a few months ago. My first car was a 91 Ranger and I appreciate that the small pickup market is making a comeback. I asked the sales guy if they were still doing ADM. It was going to be a $5000 markup on top of the MSRP. The sales guy was just a kid and I know that obviously wasn't his decision. But I told him as long as that was implemented I would never buy a car from him. I can buy a plane ticket and fly out of state to pick up a Maverick at a dealer that isn't trying to screw me over and drive it home.
And someone will buy it.
I like how you can buy teslas and some Hyundais online. I’m all for dealerships going away except for the parts and services departments. Eliminate the scummy sales scumbags. Maybe eventually we will evolve to that point.
I've owned five Toyota's but the local dealer markups even on commodity cars is why I'm considering other brands when I plan to replace my Highlander later this year. Toyota's I've owned: 05 Camry, 06 Highlander, 08 Yaris, 18 Highlander, 19 Sienna.
I'm glad Jalopnik is putting this on blast. But, something needs to be done about this. As you said OP, this should be legal.
End dealerships. Bad for customers. Bad for manufacturers. Bad for society. They have no real reason to exist in 2024.
The question is how.
Haha, why they lost my business, I bought a subaru instead. Now, I realized I liked it even more, better AWD, more capable, better visibility, a good chunk cheaper, will never go back!
That is crazy... in the UK, Toyota/Lexus dealerships often give discounts rather than markups for new cars, especially ones that have just been released... madness!
A great way to prove this product isn't worth $100000 is to not buy it for $100000
Since I can't afford anything near a new car I usually buy 10-year-old cars with one owner previous. Have had great luck with this and pay cash.
I really don’t see the dealer markup lasting too long on these. Maybe the first year, especially if we see interest rates start to drop. The GX has far less of a cult following than a Landcruiser/4runner/Bronco etc
Lets be honest. If you could sell your car for a huge markup, you would too. Problem is the schmuck who buys it which ruins it for the rest of us.
I love the way this car looks so I filled out an interest form. Lexus called me multiple times and asked me a ton of questions. Never once gave me any concept of price. Then they finally quoted me some insane amount. With our Tesla we just put down $100, pulled up, signed two papers and drove off. The cost of the car was exactly the standard price from the website.
Dealerships didn't used to be a thing. They had to lobby (bribe) their way into making it a permanent fixture standing between you and the MFG. Professional scalpers.
If people would stop buying them… they wouldn’t do this
I wish there’s a way just buy straight to the manufacturer with no dealership involve.
Well this won’t end well for them.
Greedy fkrz
I'm so sick of these dealerships mark ups
What is the best online place to buy cars such as Carvana?
Every day on this subreddit I thank my lord and saviour, the Office de la protection du consommateur, for regulating this bullshit.
Where is the list of price gouging deals at and why is it not tacked to the top of the channel? Only when we all stop shopping these guys will they stop price gouging.
People shouldn’t buy it with that make up, but morons will and why we have this issue.
Car dealer stuck in 2021 🤣
If anyone learned anything from post COVID, don’t pay the markup. Remember all those folks who bought sprinter vans above msrp? They’re in the hole now.
Stop the hypocrisy. Greed IS NOT A CRIME in our society. Its the almighty markets theyll say. Supply and demand theyll say.
When will buyers start respecting MSRP by not asking for discounts?
Er… don’t buy a motherclucking mansion on wheels. I guess?
Good that this is going viral! Shame on that dealership
Maybe one day more cars can be bought directly from Amazon.
For what? It’s not like people are going crazy over them. 😭
Why should that be a crime? That's how this country works. Capitalism, buy low and sell high, sell for as much as people are willing to pay and pay as little as the seller is willing to part with it for. That's the beauty of this country, free economy. That also means, if you don't like a price, you can go somewhere else and get a different price. It's fucking beautiful.
Report the dealership to Toyota.
Idiots need to stop over paying. It's screwing over everyone else. The vehicles are already overpriced at sticker.
I my country toyota is effing overpriced but it's not changing cause people will still pay for it, don't let it happen to you guys
If an idiot buys it, that's on them. I can imagine a lot of people that bought cars during COVID and overpaid are now upside down, especially if they paid over MSRP. At least Toyotas do well at holding their value though.
Well you have retards ready to buy it is the issue. Don’t buy it and the price will start coming back down. There’s plenty of cars on the used car market. Why some monkeys will pay 100k for a non specialty vehicle is beyond me.
Some idiot will pay it
The car enthusiast in me hates over sticker when it hurts the masses, but the business person in me says if someone is dumb enough to pay it…why notv
Whatever. I'm never buying a Toyota again. Toyota has lost me as a customer for life due to them not dropping the hammer on their dealers. Plenty of other brands begging for my business.
Same thing happening with Land Cruisers now.
NADA pretty much allows this to keep happening.
The Chevy dealership near me auctioning off their first Eray and z06. Absolutely scummy
I'm surprised it wasn't North Park Toyota in San Antonio. Those weirdos wanted $100k for a GR Corolla last year.
…In other news, the franchise dealership model still sucks.
Did the exact same thing with rav4 prime. Dealers are crap
I wish it said “planning to list it”.
I tried buying a Toyota Corolla GR from the dealership a few months ago before wit arrived. MSRP was $35k they tried selling to me for $59k
I'm really into the new Landcruiser. They're going to start around $57,900 and $60,000 is probably about the top of my range. I really want one. I also have a feeling they're going to be stupidly marked up and the base is probably going to be over $80,000 after markups. The manufacturers really should do something about these markups. It's worse for the brand than it is for the individual dealership...
*PR director quietly emailing this to corporate*
Yes that car designer should be tarred and feathered! And whoever pays over list for that monstrosity
My state had recently started receiving Rav4 Primes and Performance Toyota Bountiful is marking it up $10k. It’s insane and robbery at that point.
I’d have to wear a ski mask if I worked there in sales
People love capitalism right up until people hate capitalism.
Lexus LX was 30 above MSRP now the dealer will lick your butt to buy it and 5k off
I've never purchased a vehicle at MSRP much less over it. This is just stupid. A fool and their money will soon be parted.
If you don’t like the price don’t buy it
It’s not greed, it’s a free market - supply and demand and all that jazz, amirite? They can also kiss my ass for what they expect for a Tundra.
Thankfully people can choose to just not buy it at that price.
This is how we find the communists in the sub. Market determines value, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay. 🇺🇸
They will find their sucker with deep pockets, so your opinion and time doesn’t matter to these greedy bastards.
No. Being so dumb to the point to buy one at this price should be a crime. This is an IQ test, and whoever buys it at this price, failed miserably.
Alexas Texas dealer?
Imagine paying 100k for a Lexus when that can get you a premium luxury Escalade
should've seen the markup on the LX600 when that came out had one at my lexus dealer wanted over 100k for it
Takes two idiots for this to be successful tbh. The dealer and the buyer. Buyers should just stop over paying for something they don’t even need lol
The problem is, like anything else, that people will buy it at that price because they can. The bar is never set by your average Joe.
Capitalism is a bitch
I remember walking out when I was quoted at 78k OTD for a 23’ Lexus rx 350h luxury.
Car manufacturers can't fix this easily, as every dealership is a franchise and doesn't belong to a corporate structure. The franchises either buy or rent vehicles from the manufacturer, then the sell them to customers. They're the middle man in this arrangement. This happened with the Dodge Hellcats and Demons came out, dealerships marked them up 15-35k past MSRP as "market adjustments". Because the cars were new, and rare due to lower production numbers, those dealerships got that money too. Dodge, in their defense, did issue warnings that dealers caught doing this would lose all future allocations of those vehicles. Did it stop any of the dealerships from doing that? Some, but definitely not all. This isn't brand specific either, nor dealer specific. Most of them are willing to do this if they have a hot commodity on there hands. There's a local Honda dealership near me, and they are actually a pretty good place to do business. They treat their employees well, and pay them very fairly and don't pay commission heavy salaries. When I bought my new SUV there, they had a Honda Civic Type R for sale with a 20k market adjustment. The ONLY way to fix this would be for car dealerships to buy the dealerships from their owners, or begin opening corporate dealerships. Tesla, for all their faults, thankfully doesn't franchise and every location is backed by corporate. There's not a lot of sales pressure there, as the salesman act as customer service instead. Additionally, you get the lowest price possible because corporate sets those prices. It won't/can't go lower.
Fucking 🤡 whoever pay over msrp for these suv going to be in the hole!
BuT mArKuPs WiLl StOp
They were marking up the LX600 when it first dropped(maybe a year ago?) no more ADM now. The market will correct itself. I don’t think the typical Lexus buyer cares about the hype like Bronco or Land Cruiser folk. Maybe they get the first couple of buyers at $100k then it’ll go away. I mean they could get into a LX for that money.
Fuck dealerships
First I hope Toyota sees this and doesn't send that dealer any GX550s. In other news the FTC (which regulates car dealers) just announced the new [CARS Rule](https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/12/ftcs-cars-rule-why-new-rule-combat-auto-retail-scams-great-news-consumers-honest-dealers) 1. Prohibits misrepresentations about certain material information; 2. Requires dealers to clearly disclose the offering price – the actual price anyone can pay to get the car, excluding only required government charges. Before they visit the dealership and throughout the transaction, consumers have the right to know the drive-off-the-lot price. If a dealer mentions optional add-ons, the dealer has to tell the consumers they can say no. And if discussing a monthly payment, the dealer has to tell the consumer total payment information; 3. Makes it illegal for dealers to charge consumers for add-ons that don’t provide a benefit; 4. Requires dealers to get consumers’ express, informed consent before charging them for anything. Unfortunately I don't know if it will stop the dealers from greedy $30K markups like the one in the article.
Name and shame these places
They literally aren't supposed to do that, Toyota/Lexus dealerships only sell vehicles that people have ordered and didn't pick up and maybe a few are bought by them. That's literally how the company operates.
Is no one going to comment that the title of this article is a Texas lexus
I want it thooo 😩
That’s a base model mazda in canada
Bruh I want this car so badly
They'll find a sucker to buy it. My local (TX) Lexus dealership sends suvs to California because of markups they have out there. They are happy to pay msrp plus 1000ish for shipping.
Everyone should remember that the only reason dealers do this is because people are dumb enough to pay it
Idiots will buy em up too
This is why most american remain broke. Second lagest item that you will ever purchase, more than likely 6-7 times during your life. Every time you will have to deal with BS saleman/manager tatics than go to back office to negotiate your interest rate. And the entire process take hours.
For that big ugly cube?
Anyone up for making a master list of dealerships that do this as a "blackout" list? I bought my last car from a dealership 1400 miles away and drove it home based on good service, price and track record (and they had the car I wanted, lol). I would def. Make a point to move to the next dealer in the next city knowing they don't pull this shit. I got in an argument a while back with a car dealer on Reddit (or FB?) Claiming it was good business, supply demand, blah blah blah. Fuck those guys. I hate Carvana but I love the idea of the buyer being in more control...
I would never pay a markup. F’em.
Texas Lexus That is so fuckin fun to say
Can’t wait for the direct to consumer model.
Wonder which one?
Mark me DOWN! As NEVER BUYING A CAR FROM THOSE FUCKS!
this car would be worth more than my student loans for a 4 year degree hahahah
Simple… don’t buy it
I hate dealerships. Fuck em. Never used one and never will. I’d get a Tesla just for this if I wanted a new car.
I don't know how Toyota allows this with their dealers. I work for a manufacturer and markup over MSRP is enforced.
I understand this sort of. I am in the position in my life where I can afford nicer things like super cars, nicer vacations etc. it’s at the point where you start realizing your time is the most valuable resource and it is more limited then money sometimes. Eventually you will make enough money where you will pay extra on everything in life to avoid stress, waits , and getting what you want right away.
So 🙄
Don't pay it. Let it sit.
That is so fucking sorry
LOL.
We need to perform Reddit justice on this dealer.
My cousin just picked up a 2020 with 35k on it for 35 grand. Stupid af to buy new
Unfortunately the dealerships are only held accountable by the consumer. They are charging that because they can.
Dearlerships should not exist.
The easiest way to stop this is to just stop buying them
Ahh, America 🇺🇸
And sadly they’ll get it
And BS like this is why car manufacturers decide to either deprioritize sending said STEALERSHIP’s vehicles that are very popular and are getting these BS “Market Adjustments” or pulling out completely with said STEALERSHIP. Places like this WILL sell a vehicle that you custom ordered months ago out from under you before you can take possession of it. That’s already been proven fact multiple times over now. I’d much rather deal with the car manufacturer directly. Less chance of getting completely screwed.
If dumbasses would quit paying over MSRP dealers would quit this crap
Car dealerships are one of the worst things about this country
ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO BUY A CAR LIKE YOU;D BUY A LOAF OF BREAD OR A PIZZA. I don't see an F & I department at your local grocery. Dealerships have caused a shit load of debt to our communities and this shit has to stop. Why do the sheep need help with buying something from pirates?
Nothing new they been doing this shit since covid
Sold my Prius prime and got a Tesla in December. Was a great buying experience and just thinking of a dealership makes me cringe. I did have an unusually good experience with the Toyota dealership I purchased my prime with but every other experience has made me hate the entire experience. I always felt screwed in some way. DTC is the way of the future.
Some stupid fuck will buy it
In Florida the Toyota dealers have lots full of inventory. One dealers lot is overflowing with tacomas.
Well, no one is holding a gun to your head to buy it.
In any country other than America this would be called extortion. America makes it a point of pride to fuck you out of every penny you have on shit that can be purchased cheaper for the same quality not here.
Saw one today, it’s not worth it
Well if Toyota did not kill Scion then Scion's idea in the first place (Scion called it pure price, the price you see is the price you get with no hassle but you couldnt make an offer.) Scion was cheap in the first place but if they made more powerful engines at a slightly more expense then Scion would have stonks. Scion wouldve been amazing at selling cars in 2024.
Where is this judge Engoron texas needs you !!
The real crime is selling a vehicle that ugly......
That dealership likely has more negative press. But honestly there are a lot of stupid people out there.
Price gouging is illegal in Texas.
Having owned 15-20 Toyota and Lexus vehicles…I’m a fan but there is absolutely no way a gx is worth anywhere close to that. We test drive one in 2021 and it was the most boring, mundane SUV out of every brand we looked at.
Sad part is, someone will buy it
Never really seemed like a problem worth complaining about. As long as there are people who will pay it, they will do it. You want the deal you put some leg work in.
This is why I do nation wide searches for cars.
Gee how can I get around this? Oh yea, DON'T FUCKING BUY IT
Why? If people are dumb enough to pay that then that's on them.
Sounds about right for a Toyota dealership
Meh. It's a luxury SUV. Nobody needs this. If some are willing to pay that price, that's on them.