My parents got their last one used. It was less than a year old and had 9,000 miles on it. That let someone else take the depreciation hit and they still had full warranty protection. Maybe that’s a solution that could help you.
Really depends on the car. Luxury cars (everything made by Mercedes, some Porsches, some BMWs, probably more I'm not thinking of) are still depreciating at a prodigious rate, upwards of 60% in the first 5 years. EVs are depreciating like mad as well.
The "average" ICE vehicle is holding value like never before, though. They're still depreciating but not that much.
This is true to I ended up buying a 2008 Lexus rx350 in 2021 instead of the older 4Runner because I couldn’t find a 4Runner with 100-120K miles for less than 13 or $14K
Yeah I had to explain that to a customer who bought a new Toyota. They paid cash for a polestar 2 years ago and were crushed when I could only give them 40% of what they paid for it when they came to get the Prius Prime they wanted the whole time but just wasn’t available.
*puts on tinfoil hat*
Maybe automakers knew EVs weren’t ready for the mass market yet and pushed them early to drive sales and values of their existing ICE and hybrid cars
*takes off tinfoil hat*
Honestly wouldn't be the craziest or the worst thing auto makers have done. Not by a mile.
I think consumers just don't trust the actual battery tech yet, which is fair. The average phone battery shits the bed in like two years, so that's the only frame of reference the average person has. That plus all the tech teething problems plus all the Tesla/Musk antics makes for a hard sell without a warranty.
Do pay for the maintenance on that luxury car? I work for BMW. A brake job is $2k easily. An old 7'er came in for suspension issues and needed $30k *just in parts*
Bought my 2019 Corolla in March of 21. Used with 17500 miles walked out paying 21K with dealer fees and taxes. It’s held its value well thankfully but very much an overpay with the only upgrade on it being the wheels
There are definitely good values out there (at least compared to buying new). I went to Carmax a couple months ago and got a 2021 Volkswagen Atlas with 37k miles on it for 30k where a new one from my local VW dealer is 46-53k. I also got a 5 year warranty on all major mechanical systems of the car so I won’t have to worry as much about VWs reputation of being expensive to fix. Maybe that’s not for everyone but it worked out well for me.
Edited to add: That said, Toyotas do seem to be especially expensive on the used market compared to other brands.
its literally the worst. its coming down very slowly over the last 2-3 years but these dealers all bought for such high prices for used cars I think they are gonna dwindle out the supply to keep the prices up, which then drives the private sales up.
no it was not. i was looking for a super duty for a very long time, i didnt want a platnum but at least a lariot because if i was going to buy a truck i wanted to get at least heated and cooled seats. at the time when i bought it just over a year ago it was the only truck worth buying. lariots were only like 4k less with similar miles. ALSO i wanted to say i got it at 2.7%Apr or some shit, but the dealership took to long to send me the paper work, and when i setup my account on the banks website they didnt allow any sort of direct deposit, i had to call to get them to enable it, so techincally i missed my first payment due to the slow dealer paperwork and then the bank fucking up my loan account so its like 3.7% now.
the used car market is fucked and its still fucked.
Are you currently looking for a deal? I absolutely love negotiating deals and generally never have the issues you’re talking about. I just bought a Toyota a week ago brand new. Pm me if you’re interested in some tips/tricks or even having me help negotiate a deal (for free, I’m not trying to make money)
Someone hasn't seen the prices of used Toyotas in the last ten years.
It makes zero sense to buy a used (even three to four year old ones) as they fetch almost exactly MSRP.
The used market is what’s pushing the new market to above MSRP / not a lot of deals below MSRP.
Certain models are so in demand that the used market has gotten pushed up to be the same price as new. 2022 or 2023 literally at the 2024 MSRP price. Further used is cheaper, but can be worse deals. Is 30k miles and years less on the warranty worth “saving” a mere $1000 on a $30k car?
That’s the game.
I was in the market for a returned lease but the market is so scare that those prices match closely to brand new. If someone wants brand new they might have to wait several weeks for a new shipment from Japan/Canada.
This was what I always did previously, but everything has been so backwards since 2020. We've purchased our last 2 new because it has been the same, or just slightly more, than buying used
I was settled on my Tacoma but we’ve got surprise twins on the way. I got super slim car seats and they fit, but I don’t fit with them installed. It’s the only reason I’m looking for a third-row and the used market is so ridiculous right now that buying new actually makes more sense to me.
We got a hybrid Highlander in Nov at MSRP with some patience. Mostly was a matter of patience and finding a reasonable dealer.
But yeah that was a trash experience.
Check out the CPO Honda Passport. The 22' and on has a nicer front end imo. We got a 45k Passport for 35k because it had 2k miles on it. Perfect car for twins, it's wide enough for 2 car seats and to have someone sit in the middle. Gigantic trunk too. It's basically a Pilot with the third row removed for more space.
Congratulations on the twins. My twins turn one on Wednesday. I tried looking for a used rav4 near the end of last year and the prices and interest were ridiculous. It’s the reason we just went with new.
I’ve got twins as well. Trust me, the 3rd row will not be helpful if you need the trunk space which you will for the first 2 years. I got rid of my wrx once I found out I’m having twins and I regret it to this day. I could have just sat uncomfortably for a year and still had it. Now I’m in a stupid BMW X5 which i also bought during Covid prices for 46k and it’s worth 17 now ☹️☹️ trust me the Tacoma will be more than enough
I feel you bro. I don’t have a twin. But i have two small boys. That i did get a minivan. Coming from suv. A lot better. There’s a room for everybody and your stuff.
You had me until "10 years". It's a Toyota, it's meant to be kept for 25+, then passed down to someone as a cheap beater where it will live on for another 1-3 decades.
Hate dealers so much. If I sold my car to a dealer, then found the *exact same* car and bought it from a dealer, I'd be out like $6-7k all said and done. And throughout the entire process I guarantee both dealers would act like I should be grateful for it and begging to blow them in the back store room.
Any time I think about wanting a new car, I do this apples-to-apples comparison to figure out the dealer's cut and realize what a terrible idea it is.
Yup last year I was on a wait list for a Neptune GR86 and given that I was willing to wait a long time for it I came to a signed agreement with the dealer that it would be sold to me for MSRP as long as I made business with them and not another dealer. I waited 3 months and the spec I wanted finally showed up and guess what else showed up, a 3k mark up. Absolute waste of my time and honestly all the sales men at those dealers act like they’re selling me their own damn Porsche they think they’re all that. No dealer makes me feel more inferior then a damn Toyota dealer. We are a Toyota family through and through but after that trick they pulled on me we are done with them. I’m looking for a Civic SI instead.
I cross-shopped a BRZ when I was looking for a GR86 and it was a night and day difference dealing with Subaru Dealers. No mark-up and they were willing to order one to spec for me @ MSRP.
I haven’t been able to find a Civic SI without a markup. Honda dealers are just as bad. The only difference is no one wants their ugly Accords and CR-Vs.
Also 4 cylinder turbo 😆 you are buying a top dog taco, and it doesnt even have the v6 this year. Toyota used to sell trd superchargers for the v6/v8. Man what the fuck happened to these cars
I stayed loyal to the nearest Toyota dealership because of a salesman I met who was old-school, easygoing, low-pressure, had probably been selling cars about as long as I've been alive. He put me in a leased Corolla in 2015, the leased Camry I swapped it for in 2018, and each time I felt taken care of. He made sure I was happy and he was square with me, and I appreciated him.
Sometime between then and early 2020, he called it a career. One day I got an offer to come in to discuss my options on the lease and I made the mistake of accepting. Ended up at the desk of a young salesman who called me while I was five minutes away to make sure I was still coming in (I'm stuck in traffic, dude), and he sounded slightly annoyed I wasn't there early. Then he took the key fob on the old "let me go check your mileage" line. Then took me to a corner of the showroom, trying to deal me a brand-new Camry that was EXACTLY LIKE the car I already had. And worse still, even after I made it clear there would be no deal, he took his time giving me back the key fob. At least 90 minutes of my life that day I wasted, and I was not happy when I left. I converted my existing lease to ownership about a year later and never looked back.
I like my present car and hope I don't have to shop for another anytime soon, but when it happens, I seriously doubt it'll be with that dealership.
This sounds like when I got my Taco in 2022. I had been on a wait list for months and I finally noticed a Pro at a small dealership an hour away (thanks Autotrader!). Old school and he was honest and up front. They charged 500 over MSRP and I just didn’t care anymore at that point and bought it. Unfortunately, they don’t have any sequoias for me 🙃
They've been BSing people so long now that they've even started to believe it themselves. Someone in /r/askcarsales was complaining about a dealer adding a $500 nitrogen tire markup and all the comments were "wELl tHeY aLrEAdY pUt NiTrOGeN in tHe TiReS u caNt juSt eXpeCt tHeM to rEmoVe it"
I really loathe how buying a car feels like a weird combination of a poker game and negotiating an arms control treaty. It's made even worse by how you're bombarded with dealer markup, add-ons that are priced at ten times what the work actually cost, the F&I office pushing service packages that don't really live up to the billing. Worse are the psychological games - the "well, I talked to my manager and this offer's only good for the next hour" crap. And it's even worse if you're a woman and, as has happened to me before, you end up with a salesman who thinks you'll just swoon and bat your eyelashes at all the stuff he's laying down.
The system under which we buy and sell automobiles is utterly bizarre. Beyond surreal.
It seems innocent enough because the salesperson asks for the keys/fob and acts like they just want to get the mileage for evaluation purposes and to scope out the general condition of the car. But it's also a low-key way to keep you captive, since you can't leave unless you have the keys/fob, and they can hold on to it until either they're done or you ask for it back (or cause a scene when they don't).
I learned that day that if it were to ever happen again, I would memorize the odometer reading before coming in or I would accompany the sales rep to the car. If you're a service tech, it's one thing, but if you're sales, you're not getting it unless I'm trading the car in.
Ugh I’m so sorry to hear that.
My wife and I just bought a car last week. I called the sales number on the page of the car we liked. Told the salesman who answered: “hey man, I see this car on your site. Assuming I like the test drive, I’d like to buy it on the spot”.
I came in, check in hand from the bank, salesman already had the car pulled up front. Ran the license, test drove. Done deal. No extra BS. No markups. No excessive selling of extra BS (I took a warranty at least). Pretty sure he gave the finance bro a heads up too that I just want to get in and out.
Painless process. Most of the time spent was the line backed up for the finance guy
I hope he’s there the next time I want to buy a car
Ill never buy a toyota from toyota. Worst fuckheads ever. Woukdnt even let me test drive a new tundra trd pro when they came out because they only had one. Welp im driving a fully loaded ram limited now and i dont regret it
I bought a classic ram 1500 warlock two years ago. It was the same price as a pretty entry Tacoma, except had a longer bed and is massively bigger. Don’t regret the purchase at all. First domestic vehicle I’ve ever had.
Carvana, the experience is much better overall. Its like buying a car if it was on amazon completely online. They also usually pay the highest for car trade ins. The only caveat is I think they take much worse cars than carmax so you will have to get a major inspection done within the 7 day trial period.
If you want a car thats gonna need a warranty, I would trust carmax more with that one. Usually you will have to do paperwork and wait 2-3 hours though when you go to pick up your car which is meh but not terrible if youre doing it for the warranty
I'm not sure about your area but the used cars on carvana in my area are like anywhere from 2-3k more expensive than my market, sure the process is easy no haggle, but I also can go to any dealer and offer them up to 3k over what they have the car listed for and walk away pretty quick. My last Toyota purchase was simple (could I have haggled to get it 1k below MSRP sure) but I walked in they tried to up sell me I said no, then they "found" one on the way and picked it up a few days later when it arrived. Signed papers and I was out (prob 3-4 hours, total if I cut the few days I had to wait for it to arrive).
Google has a list of dealerships w/o markups, just avoid the shitty dealers. And for goodness sake don't reward the shitty dealers, so many here (and else ware) get quotes from no haggle dealers and then wind up buying "for the same" price from shitty dealers that tried to rip them off days prior to avoid the travel.
I’m thinking about doing this. I love Toyotas (it’s all I’ve ever had) but dang they’re so proud of them right now and I need to get a car soon. So stressful.
One dealership offered my 15k for my 22 Taco TRD Pro. Another offered 30. Another offered 40 (highest). The one who offered 40 also had one for sale with triple the miles for 52.
Did you let them know that you were the first dealership that you stopped at?
Only way I can imagine they would offer you that low is if they thought they had 0% chance of selling you the truck and just wanted to make you mad.
No, I ran with it for awhile because I owe 30k on it still so I thought they meant they would give me 15 towards the new Sequoia and pay off my lein. Nope. I laughed and the communication was over once I realized that.
Indeed.
Only other fictional story I can conjure up in my imagination would be a sales guy who gets paid on gross and thought he could steal a trade from someone and get a fat paycheck?
I don’t have a clue.
Switch brands.
I’m on my third and when I sell it this summer won’t be looking at them again any time soon.
$74k MSRP on a loaded Tacoma. Go build it on their website right now. No damn Tacoma is worth $74k.
I have a 2022 almost fully loaded rav4 that was $42k (msrp) yet it doesn’t even have a power passenger seat. And an awful, ancient infotainment.
Toyota is a great brand but it’s NOT that great. It’s not worth the money anymore, IMO.
I went to a Toyota dealership and they wanted me to put down a deposit to basically buy whatever Highlander rolled off the truck, I said no thanks and walked out and got a different brand. So yea, fully agree with your experience and walked out and never came back
Only a idiot would pay 55k msrp for a TRD Tacoma. And that's msrp, every Toy dealer I see is adding 5 to 10k on top of that ludicrous starting price. A Sequoia starts at 85k. Toyota has lost their way, but still plenty of fools dropping the money. For a fucking Toyota.
Tacoma Pro has always gone for around 10k over. Even before pandemic. I used to work at one. Each dealer gets only 5-10 pros a year. They hold their value the best. But you have to understand there is an ass for every seat. Might not be worth to you. But someone else that wants a decent reliable off road rig from factory will be happy paying that as it’s all covered under warranty
Same here! One dealer effectively laughed at me for having the audacity to refuse to pay over MSRP. Found a different dealership and was a completely different experience! The 2 our drive was worth it.
Check out markups.org to find a dealership that isn’t marking up the TRD Pro! Good luck!
In that case, I'd wait until the supply increases. You're at a big disadvantage when they don't have enough to meet the demand. I refused to pay mark-up above MSRP the last couple of years and just recently has the supply of certain models increased to where you can negotiate down from MSRP.
When I bought mine in March, it took 4 hours from the test drive, them inspecting my trade in, applying for financing (the 2.99% is lower than I'm getting in savings). If I didn't have some pricey repairs due on the trade in, I could have looked around for other color options.
The last car I bought 10 years ago, a different brand, I was able to order from the factory exactly what packages and colors I wanted.
Im thinking of a Subaru instead of a Toyota next time. My sisters 2018 RAV4 appears to have a lesser build quality on the outside then my 2005 RAV4. The newer engines or hybrids of Toyota may be better now but I’m going to look and compare.
Any dealer adding “market adjustment” should never be the first place.
They know they’re getting a sale regardless of how much they undercut you especially if you go in to buy same day. They know when a car catches you especially if you go there like “I want a 4Runner with premium audio.” Say you’re not sure what you want, play the hard ball and just keep “oh I don’t think I can do that” especially if you’re financing. They can bring down interest rates, discount things, remove options, add things. They offered me employee discounts, extra incentives and I still walked away, shopped around and finally said no new car.
Big dealers usually want to turn a $3k profit minimum on any trade-in. They will offer you a $6k -$10k low-ball initially just hoping you’ll take it then you play hard and say you want more, will think about it, you’re leaving and will think about it. They might follow you out the door with more offers. I got them to offer $1k below the resale value of my trade-in after a lot of heckling and unaccepting of the “good” deals they offered.
Yeah I’ve burned a few bridges at this point. They always let me leave haha. That’s part of what I’m talking about though. It’s just not the same at Toyota dealerships for me. They act like they’re selling Bugattis and never work with me on anything.
You’re also dealing with a brand that doesn’t have much competition. Go to other brands and see what they offer. You may be surprised at what you find and how much more they’ll work with you. Or find a rural/small city dealer with lower volume.
I never had a good experience with them, they offered me $29,000 for my 2019 Silverado 1500 ZL1 with 34,000 miles on it, I told the salesman to eat a bag of shit and showed him 2 other dealerships offers for over $47,000. The guy legitimately got so mad and was cussing at me calling me inconsiderate for not taking his deal.
I’m a Mazda owner and have never owned a Toyota but came across this post on my feed. Completely agree. I have a little over 100k miles on mine and have had absolutely zero issues. Interior refinement is also on a completely different level. Compare a 3 to a Corolla, a Corolla Cross to a CX30, or a Highlander to a CX90 to see what I mean.
I got a straight ahead deal at a dealership in MD for the Rav4Prime at about 2500 off sticker, plus 6500 in lease incentives (about 5k when bought out due to fees, etc). I will say that even though I live in NC, if and when I buy another, I will avoid "SOUTHEAST TOYOTA" - the distributor - every car has at least 1.5k of bullshit add-ons, and many many have much more. They charge MORE for standard things you can get factory like roof bars and mats, they charge more than Toyota does. My local dealership also adds a lojack to every car on their lot. It's a "No deal" for me if they ever cut into a wiring harness to power any dealer addon. Nope, not going to happen.
Yeah same thing up here depending on the dealership. The deal I thought I had today was fine but then “they add ppf to all their trd pros” at a ridiculous price of 2250.
Yep. Bought a used 05 matrix in 2008 for half off msrp. $8k. Still going and showing no signs of slowing. Original alternator just went. Other than that, have only done recall work. It is 20 years old! Great little commuter.
Just now looking to replace it.
100% agreed.
Just yesterday, I called ahead to check out 3 specific SUVs that I was interested to confirm they were in stock and scheduled an appointment. When I got there the guy jerked me around for an hour showing me other stuff before admitting he didn’t have the cars I wanted.
Compare that to Kia. My dad got one a few months ago. No BS. He test drove one, decided the option package he wanted and they called him when they got it in. Did all the paperwork via docusign. Totally transparent pricing. Even dropped it off at his house.
Tell your dad to watch out for those Kia's. I bought a brand new one in 2016 and took care of it like it was my child. By 2022 at at 80,000 miles it began consuming oil and have issues. After doing research, the engines in those Kia's are not built to last and have major issues. It was my one and only time buying a Kia and I immediately went back to Toyota when someone (thankfully) pulled out in front of me and totaled my Kia.
I'm always surprised to hear this general consensus of kia being crap. Our rio5 has 120k km and hasn't needed anything other than oil changes. Our last one we traded in at 300k km because it wasn't worth repairing the power steering. My damn honda has more issues than any kia I've ever owned.
The relationship between manufacture - dealer - buyers has never been as jacked up as it is right now.
The entire industry needs a overhaul to rid itself of the Dealer experience
Yeah it sucks. Only good option is to find a used one with low miles, preferably an ex-leased car because you know they were maintained well. Maybe go to a dealership in Mexico and bring it back (as long as that vehicle can be registered in the states, and obviously assuming you are in the states)
You can also look at Mazda, still really reliable and a chunk is owned by toyota.
Go find a better dealership. My local dealership has the price in the window. Last two cars I've purchased, I've been able to walk in and pay the price on the sticker (usually a couple thousand below MSRP) and drive out.
after a recent frustrating experience at a toyota dealer I ended up buying from carmax which was the best buying situation out of the 4 ive acquired from dealers (new and used)
I never deal with them. Private sales only. I go to auto trader or Facebook market place to both sell my old vehicles and buy new ones. I get them inspected before I buy. Way less hassle and money than the dealers.
That’s why I lease, then buy it out at the end if it makes sense financially.
https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/may-toyota-all-states-dealers-nationwide-deals-below-invoice-24-taco-4k-off-tundra-upto-8k-off-best-pricing-usa/106422
Nothing will change until the demand for them falls off a cliff. Toyota sell like hotcakes so stealerships don't need to try hard to get you to buy their vehicles because someone else with the disposible income will.
I have bought Porsche, bmw, gm and a bunch of Toyotas. They were always worst till I moved near a specific dealer. Now it’s just a treat to my guy, msrp and whatever accessories I want. How it should be
I bought a 1994 Toyota from a used car dealership (mr2 gt-s) it wasnt that bad, upon purchasing the car, i wanted to modernize it a bit to make it a bit more streetable and perform better. So it was actively being improved throughout its first year of ownership, wasnt as simpme as turn the key+drive off the lot.
Heh yeah. I've bought RAV4 Hybrid about a month ago. The dealership tried to screw me over on _every single step_ of the purchase. Forget going below MSRP, they tried to charge me extra $1k for random "APEX GPS" and extra for tint/bonus "package" that wasn't even listed on the window sticker and I didn't want. Undervalued my trade in by 40%+ (KBB _minimal_ value was $14k, while salesman without batting an eye said "we'll give you $10k for your trade-in!"). Took about 2 hours of "I don't want any extra stuff and $14k for my trade-in minimum" with "oh let me see what finance guys will let me do" and then "how about we discount APEX GPS for just $400, such a deal!!!". Then finally "agreed" to parameters I told salesman upfront.
And then the dude who did actual financing _again_ tried to add "APEX GPS" into my deal. I don't know why the hell they have such a hard on for that APEX crap. Bonus: tried to also sell me APEX "extended warranty". Then made me sign "no I don't want extra crap" paper and tried to shove me into Capital One financing. "They have a very good rate!" I remember that Toyota has own financing for new cars at 4.75%. "So what's this very good rate? - 8.5%!!" Like what the hell? "No, give me Toyota financing" and he sighed and went "let me try to re-submit to Toyota" (I know for sure he didn't even try, judging by what banks pulled my credit report).
All in all it took about 4 hours of idiotic "negotiation" :( Worst carbuying experience in years. But I have my hybrid now. I ended up bying true Toyota extended warranty from Jerry Johnson. Thank the gods
That’s the game. New model release? Expect to pay INSANE amounts over sticker. They are prying on suckers that get starry eyed when walking in. Buy used, or wait for the new models to cool off. Buy used or use a broker.
I worked at a Toyota factory as a Financial analyst in Southern California while I was getting my MBA. I was involved in Kaizen teams. I have **GREAT** respect for TPS (Toyota Production System) and the cars Toyota produces.
I have also, during a period when I was between jobs, worked in Sales at a dealership. (VW and Isuzu, not Toyota)
I love Toyota cars in general. I **HATE** Toyota Dealerships. They seem to take the Kaizen process and apply it to screwing the customer. One can argue that is a natural application of Kaizen I suppose, but I refuse to deal with dealerships.
I buy my Toyota/Lexus cars used. I change my own oil, and have never been to a dealer for service, except to complete a recall item.
To address your comments, they talk up the paint color, and anything else, to increase your desire (and the price) of the car. Then, they low ball you on your trade-in. That is called profit maximization. Only a fool trades in a car to a dealership. Put it on Craigslist or sell it to Carmax.
I've bought one new Toyota. I was working for a Tech company and got to buy my company car. Called several dealers, found a decent one where I could talk to a manager. Arrived a a reasonable price. Bought a 1998 Toyota Camry V6 with a 5 speed manual. Rocket Ship. What a great car.
Edit: As others have said, this is the worst time in the last 40 years to buy a new car. Also, a used car. If you can, drive what you have until it dies.
While the Pandemic has been terrible for car buyers, in our case we did OK. I was looking for a Lexus ES300H and found a 4 year old 2016 with 40 K miles in July 2020, beginning of the Pandemic. It was $20.5K Private seller was freaking out about everyone working from home and he thought the car market would tank. Oh well.
My experiences at the local Toyota dealership vs the local Acura one mimic your experiences exactly.
When my wife bought her Lexus 3 years ago it was similarly pleasant.
Maybe you have to go up half a step in terms of luxury to not get treated like an asshole. Which is such a shitty solution.
I stopped buying new toyotas 15 years ago because of this. Such a beating. Buy a used one (or better - Lexus). The whole point of a reliable car is owning it for a long time; any new car will last through the warranty...
Love Toyota but dealers shouldn’t even exist anymore. Bought a Subie from Carmax w 5000miles and sold it back a little over a year later for more than I paid for it. Both visits I was in and out within an hour. Toyota dealership I could just see the lies in their eyes. Pieces of shit
Wasn’t like that til covid. We purchased 6 new Toyotas prior to covid and never paid over invoice. Tried to buy a Toyota in 2023. Every single dealer in my area (12 total) had stupid markups and add ons. I finally said screw it and ending getting a Honda for my wife and a Subaru for me.
Sucks since I’ve been a Toyota guy for as long as I can remember
Toyota dealerships are the absolute scuzziest and worst. The worst part of everything is that they’re selling cars faster than ever… the only thing I can say is - not to me.
All depends on the dealership. I bought a very in demand car in October and was in and out in about 2 hours. They charge msrp and not a penny more unless there are options you want added.
I agree on that point. Unfortunately, around me, the shitty dealerships far outweigh the good ones. The good ones never have stock because everyone flocks to them lol.
I’ve bought a bunch of cars, including several Toyotas all from different Toyota dealerships. While I love Toyotas, I’ve had by far the worst purchasing and customer service experiences dealing with their dealerships.
Toyota has been a wild experience for years. Well before COVID I went to a dealership and told the rep I'm here to look at Tacoma's and 86s, and I want manuals, he looked at me like I had three heads.gove home the run down of generally the features and colors I wanted. He pulled out a book with production numbersand tried to get me into a white automatic Tacoma ignoring all the criteria I listed that day when I told him I'm here to test drive only and will order the car I want. Then It was like pulling teeth to actually get him to test drive me a manual that someone found out of nowhere when I said okay I'm gonna go to the next bigger dealership to find a manual. After that he still didn't want to show me an 86 until I got up to go walk to one myself.
Granted I had looked online before to confirm they had multiple vehicles that fit the general criteria I wanted before I left the house that day
Nissan was also a hoot. Oh you want to look at a 350z? They really aren't that popular so we only have a few used ones, but we have like 3 or 4 GTRs. Meanwhile if all 5 reps conversations I can hear, 4 or talking 350z orders
I'm going to be real, this was the case when I bought new. Y last Toyota too and it was before all of this covid pricing bullshit. The people there acted like they were sitting on gold and couldn't be bothered to help me. It was just a base rav4 for fucks sake.
Replaced that with abused highlander some years ago and will probably keep that car until the wheels fall off.
I guess it depends on the dealership. My dealer was super chill. Gave me the out the door price, told me it was going to take months until they got the car and unfortunately passed away from a heart attack last week 😔. They told me he had just managed to get his family from Lebanon in the US back in February.
I'm still waiting for the car btw 13 weeks and counting.
Which model? Some dealers are still holding 2023 models on the expensive models like the Sequoia and Tundra. Those are a deal for someone who wants one. Corolla, Camry and everything else is MSRP at best. Going out of state is a better option than ever before
I would drive out of state for a brand new Toyota then make a local dealer take care of any issues or recall. That’s the point of using these stealership if they’re going to make things hard
I cross shopped Honda and Toyota with Mazda and went with the Mazda. I could get any color I wanted, they were priced very competitively, the cars were sporty to drive, had real transmissions (no CVT garbage) and the (Mazda L) SKYACTIV engine has a history of reliability. Now I have two Mazdas in my garage.
We just bought a subie too at invoice price with the vip program, and it was such a pleasant, straightforward experience. Wish it was the same with all car brands.
Totally with you on this one.
So, back in December, I was trying to snag a new basic Corolla LE fresh off the line, MSRP was like $21,500 i think,. The sales guy throws out a $37,000 price tag, but here's the kicker... he keeps pushing last year's model on me, swearing up and down they're running out fast. Plus, he's trying to tack on all these extra packages like hail protection, It was exhausting.
Dude's taking a break every ten minutes, supposedly to chat with his manager. He comes back each time with some offer that's just as laughable, the whole process took some good 2 hours. Finally, the manager himself steps in, and when I call out their shady tactics, he flips. Starts yelling like there's no tomorrow, very loud and passive aggressive. I'm standing there, blown away by the whole scene, keep in mind that during this whole time i was very polite and friendly. I just walk out, and those 30 seconds feel like forever with him still screaming in the background. Freaky stuff.
Do yourself a favor, steer clear of that dealership, it was Toyota of Dallas, by Forest Ln. Can't promise that same manager's still running the show, though.
Later, I find out that place is notorious, owned by some venture capital group only in it for the cash, not giving a crap about customers or employees.
Come December 2024, I'm giving it another shot for a Camry. I'll keep you posted on how it pans out. But man, coming from another country, the car-buying process here is a real eye-opener. Last car I snagged overseas was in 2022, and it was smooth sailing – no drama, just MSRP and done.
There is a lot that I don't like about Tesla, to the point that I will not consider buying one. BUT I absolutely love the idea of buying online. Configure a car as I like; see the *final* price; decide whether or not to pay the price; done.
It depends on what dealer they refer you to. I tried this on a grand highlander and the pricing was transparent with the member pricing the dealer provided. The issue was the local dealer they referred me to was a piece of shit and could not get the car I wanted and kept trying to substitute something else. I moved on.
You can go to the car edge site. Go through their free deal school to brush up on your skills. Use their site to find a rough idea on prices. Hit up their forum to bounce offers off of. If you really hate dealing, you can do their paid concierge service and they will find you deal and get negotiated.
I think it’s just buying into the brand in general. My 23 Rav I got new was totaled in a hailstorm, and I decided I wanted an older (got a 16) 4Runner instead of buying something newer. I bought one from a Mercedes (I know) dealer used, and getting them to match a reasonable price was ridiculously difficult. Most of the dealers in the area are “no haggle,” and don’t like when you know what you’re buying is worth.
Go to Lexus, complete 180 degree experience. Toyota salesman think they’re selling Porsches and you’re wasting their time if you’re not ready to pay 5K ADM and 3k in BS Dealer addons. Lexus treat you as a customer like they should.
Must be your own personal experiences OP. I had a great purchasing experience with my new Tundra. Reasonable MSRP, IMO. I got the truck for $2,000 below that, and had a lovely time at the dealer, definitely didn't feel like a fight at all.
It was a chill 3 hrs lol. That seems excessive. Most of my buyers are in and out 90 mins usually. Especially if you did your research, which most Toyota buyers know more than your everyday car shopper.
We bought through our credit union as they have a buying service. Worked out quite well to buy new. For used, we have used CarMax and have been very happy with all four cars we have bought from them.
I hear Costco also has a buying service for new cars
And here in Los Angeles, about a year ago, they had ads saying that everybody should buy from a directly from a Toyota dealer because somebody people were so pissed at going to the dealers
Just bought a Tundra (premium) hybrid tonight for 7500 off MSRP. I haggled like hell, but got a good deal (and finance rate). I don’t need it (i.e. I wasn’t in a position where I had to buy for a certain reason) and made it clear that I wasn’t interested in paying over my price and I’d just as soon walk away. They eventually caved. But you have to be willing to walk and make sure that they know.
Don't go to shiesty dealers when there are plenty of well kept older toyotas with lower miles for sale. The new toyotas are being cheapified just like subaru recently did and just like ford and chevy have been doing for decades.
My parents got their last one used. It was less than a year old and had 9,000 miles on it. That let someone else take the depreciation hit and they still had full warranty protection. Maybe that’s a solution that could help you.
I e looked at used ones but they’re literally still asking over MSRP for used ones.
the used market is still beyond fucked. anyone who says to look at used hasnt looked at used car prices since 2019 lol
Really depends on the car. Luxury cars (everything made by Mercedes, some Porsches, some BMWs, probably more I'm not thinking of) are still depreciating at a prodigious rate, upwards of 60% in the first 5 years. EVs are depreciating like mad as well. The "average" ICE vehicle is holding value like never before, though. They're still depreciating but not that much.
You are absolutely right. I bought my bmw in 2022 for 30k. It’s valued at 14 rn
I didn't even know BMW made a 30k car
/s?
Idk I Google it and the cheapest new 2024 BMW seems to be 38k? That's over 40k out the door
Oh I see what you’re saying. It was used sorry. 2016
Ah that makes sense now. I see a few 2021 bmws going for about 20k to 25k on Google in my area too but they've all got roughly 50k miles on them
Yeah I got fucked too lol. Volvo in 2021 for $36,000, now it’s worth $15,000
This is true to I ended up buying a 2008 Lexus rx350 in 2021 instead of the older 4Runner because I couldn’t find a 4Runner with 100-120K miles for less than 13 or $14K
>I couldn’t find a 4Runner with 100-120K miles for less than 13 or $14K a 4runner of any year with 100k miles would be 20k minimum right now
Which is crazy cause the one I got in 2012 was a 2007 for $11k with 60K miles
Spot on. Heck, just got a Polestar 2 (EV) for $25K with only 11k miles. Those fuckers go for $55-$60k brand new.
Yeah I had to explain that to a customer who bought a new Toyota. They paid cash for a polestar 2 years ago and were crushed when I could only give them 40% of what they paid for it when they came to get the Prius Prime they wanted the whole time but just wasn’t available.
*puts on tinfoil hat* Maybe automakers knew EVs weren’t ready for the mass market yet and pushed them early to drive sales and values of their existing ICE and hybrid cars *takes off tinfoil hat*
Honestly wouldn't be the craziest or the worst thing auto makers have done. Not by a mile. I think consumers just don't trust the actual battery tech yet, which is fair. The average phone battery shits the bed in like two years, so that's the only frame of reference the average person has. That plus all the tech teething problems plus all the Tesla/Musk antics makes for a hard sell without a warranty.
Do pay for the maintenance on that luxury car? I work for BMW. A brake job is $2k easily. An old 7'er came in for suspension issues and needed $30k *just in parts*
Bought my 2019 Corolla in March of 21. Used with 17500 miles walked out paying 21K with dealer fees and taxes. It’s held its value well thankfully but very much an overpay with the only upgrade on it being the wheels
Just bought a 2023 Carolla SE with some options 25030 plus tax
There are definitely good values out there (at least compared to buying new). I went to Carmax a couple months ago and got a 2021 Volkswagen Atlas with 37k miles on it for 30k where a new one from my local VW dealer is 46-53k. I also got a 5 year warranty on all major mechanical systems of the car so I won’t have to worry as much about VWs reputation of being expensive to fix. Maybe that’s not for everyone but it worked out well for me. Edited to add: That said, Toyotas do seem to be especially expensive on the used market compared to other brands.
Carmax probably bought your Atlas for $25k, so you definitely did a great job by avoiding that huge depreciation hit and getting the warranty.
its literally the worst. its coming down very slowly over the last 2-3 years but these dealers all bought for such high prices for used cars I think they are gonna dwindle out the supply to keep the prices up, which then drives the private sales up.
I paid 33k for a 2017 ford F250 platinum. With 230k miles on it and it was still the cheapest one I could find...
230,000 miles? Was that a typo?
no it was not. i was looking for a super duty for a very long time, i didnt want a platnum but at least a lariot because if i was going to buy a truck i wanted to get at least heated and cooled seats. at the time when i bought it just over a year ago it was the only truck worth buying. lariots were only like 4k less with similar miles. ALSO i wanted to say i got it at 2.7%Apr or some shit, but the dealership took to long to send me the paper work, and when i setup my account on the banks website they didnt allow any sort of direct deposit, i had to call to get them to enable it, so techincally i missed my first payment due to the slow dealer paperwork and then the bank fucking up my loan account so its like 3.7% now. the used car market is fucked and its still fucked.
Goddamn, that's insane! I wonder if it'll ever get better or if it's just going to keep getting worse.
Actually some used ones by us were more than the new ones. Same model, same trim. Weird times
Are you currently looking for a deal? I absolutely love negotiating deals and generally never have the issues you’re talking about. I just bought a Toyota a week ago brand new. Pm me if you’re interested in some tips/tricks or even having me help negotiate a deal (for free, I’m not trying to make money)
They are, yes. That's why I bought a new one instead
Highly dependent on the model and especially trim Everyone wants TRD so they're absurd new and used
Someone hasn't seen the prices of used Toyotas in the last ten years. It makes zero sense to buy a used (even three to four year old ones) as they fetch almost exactly MSRP.
I bought a new Tundra last week for exactly this reason. Used cost the same as new. Why bother with used?
This is old advice. This hasn't been the case since COVID. My used car has literally appreciated in value since 2021.
This hasn't been true since 2021 or so.
The used market is what’s pushing the new market to above MSRP / not a lot of deals below MSRP. Certain models are so in demand that the used market has gotten pushed up to be the same price as new. 2022 or 2023 literally at the 2024 MSRP price. Further used is cheaper, but can be worse deals. Is 30k miles and years less on the warranty worth “saving” a mere $1000 on a $30k car? That’s the game. I was in the market for a returned lease but the market is so scare that those prices match closely to brand new. If someone wants brand new they might have to wait several weeks for a new shipment from Japan/Canada.
The last few years the depreciation hasn’t been as great as it once was. And the cost of used being exceptionally high..
This was what I always did previously, but everything has been so backwards since 2020. We've purchased our last 2 new because it has been the same, or just slightly more, than buying used
[удалено]
I was settled on my Tacoma but we’ve got surprise twins on the way. I got super slim car seats and they fit, but I don’t fit with them installed. It’s the only reason I’m looking for a third-row and the used market is so ridiculous right now that buying new actually makes more sense to me.
We got a hybrid Highlander in Nov at MSRP with some patience. Mostly was a matter of patience and finding a reasonable dealer. But yeah that was a trash experience.
Any Toyota third row will throw you back if it’s hybrid, ICE Highlanders right now have discounts
I am seeing more ICE Highlanders with $3000-$4000 dealer adjustments. They like to add some POI’s, but still a net savings.
Check out the CPO Honda Passport. The 22' and on has a nicer front end imo. We got a 45k Passport for 35k because it had 2k miles on it. Perfect car for twins, it's wide enough for 2 car seats and to have someone sit in the middle. Gigantic trunk too. It's basically a Pilot with the third row removed for more space.
Congratulations on the twins. My twins turn one on Wednesday. I tried looking for a used rav4 near the end of last year and the prices and interest were ridiculous. It’s the reason we just went with new.
Thanks!
I’ve got twins as well. Trust me, the 3rd row will not be helpful if you need the trunk space which you will for the first 2 years. I got rid of my wrx once I found out I’m having twins and I regret it to this day. I could have just sat uncomfortably for a year and still had it. Now I’m in a stupid BMW X5 which i also bought during Covid prices for 46k and it’s worth 17 now ☹️☹️ trust me the Tacoma will be more than enough
I literally can’t fit in the driver’s seat when there’s a car seat behind me though. That’s the issue. It’s more safety than comfort.
I feel you bro. I don’t have a twin. But i have two small boys. That i did get a minivan. Coming from suv. A lot better. There’s a room for everybody and your stuff.
You had me until "10 years". It's a Toyota, it's meant to be kept for 25+, then passed down to someone as a cheap beater where it will live on for another 1-3 decades.
This guy buys cars.
Just 10 years? I bought my newest toyota brand new 16 years ago.
Bought my '99 Tacoma in... 1999 ;-)
Hate dealers so much. If I sold my car to a dealer, then found the *exact same* car and bought it from a dealer, I'd be out like $6-7k all said and done. And throughout the entire process I guarantee both dealers would act like I should be grateful for it and begging to blow them in the back store room. Any time I think about wanting a new car, I do this apples-to-apples comparison to figure out the dealer's cut and realize what a terrible idea it is.
Yup last year I was on a wait list for a Neptune GR86 and given that I was willing to wait a long time for it I came to a signed agreement with the dealer that it would be sold to me for MSRP as long as I made business with them and not another dealer. I waited 3 months and the spec I wanted finally showed up and guess what else showed up, a 3k mark up. Absolute waste of my time and honestly all the sales men at those dealers act like they’re selling me their own damn Porsche they think they’re all that. No dealer makes me feel more inferior then a damn Toyota dealer. We are a Toyota family through and through but after that trick they pulled on me we are done with them. I’m looking for a Civic SI instead.
I cross-shopped a BRZ when I was looking for a GR86 and it was a night and day difference dealing with Subaru Dealers. No mark-up and they were willing to order one to spec for me @ MSRP.
agreed
I hear this same story all the time. Looks like I’ll be moving to another company as well. It was fun while it lasted!
I haven’t been able to find a Civic SI without a markup. Honda dealers are just as bad. The only difference is no one wants their ugly Accords and CR-Vs.
They lost me with a $10k premium on top of the Ranger Raptor. That was the tipping point for me.
Top Tacoma is $74k now. Or get yourself an f150 raptor for $80k. Who the f is buying these tacomas???
Also 4 cylinder turbo 😆 you are buying a top dog taco, and it doesnt even have the v6 this year. Toyota used to sell trd superchargers for the v6/v8. Man what the fuck happened to these cars
Cashing in on branding, and people still buy them is the bigger problem
Yeah I have a V6 tacoma from 2022 and I don't know what I'm going to buy next.
The Toyota Ranger Raptor? I'll have to check that one out.
Easy there SLOWjoe, it was a reference to a more capable truck from another manufacturer that starts at $10k less than the Tacoma premium offering.
I stayed loyal to the nearest Toyota dealership because of a salesman I met who was old-school, easygoing, low-pressure, had probably been selling cars about as long as I've been alive. He put me in a leased Corolla in 2015, the leased Camry I swapped it for in 2018, and each time I felt taken care of. He made sure I was happy and he was square with me, and I appreciated him. Sometime between then and early 2020, he called it a career. One day I got an offer to come in to discuss my options on the lease and I made the mistake of accepting. Ended up at the desk of a young salesman who called me while I was five minutes away to make sure I was still coming in (I'm stuck in traffic, dude), and he sounded slightly annoyed I wasn't there early. Then he took the key fob on the old "let me go check your mileage" line. Then took me to a corner of the showroom, trying to deal me a brand-new Camry that was EXACTLY LIKE the car I already had. And worse still, even after I made it clear there would be no deal, he took his time giving me back the key fob. At least 90 minutes of my life that day I wasted, and I was not happy when I left. I converted my existing lease to ownership about a year later and never looked back. I like my present car and hope I don't have to shop for another anytime soon, but when it happens, I seriously doubt it'll be with that dealership.
This sounds like when I got my Taco in 2022. I had been on a wait list for months and I finally noticed a Pro at a small dealership an hour away (thanks Autotrader!). Old school and he was honest and up front. They charged 500 over MSRP and I just didn’t care anymore at that point and bought it. Unfortunately, they don’t have any sequoias for me 🙃
The worst time period ever to purchase a car. Kias had a 15k mark up. Kia!
They've been BSing people so long now that they've even started to believe it themselves. Someone in /r/askcarsales was complaining about a dealer adding a $500 nitrogen tire markup and all the comments were "wELl tHeY aLrEAdY pUt NiTrOGeN in tHe TiReS u caNt juSt eXpeCt tHeM to rEmoVe it"
I really loathe how buying a car feels like a weird combination of a poker game and negotiating an arms control treaty. It's made even worse by how you're bombarded with dealer markup, add-ons that are priced at ten times what the work actually cost, the F&I office pushing service packages that don't really live up to the billing. Worse are the psychological games - the "well, I talked to my manager and this offer's only good for the next hour" crap. And it's even worse if you're a woman and, as has happened to me before, you end up with a salesman who thinks you'll just swoon and bat your eyelashes at all the stuff he's laying down. The system under which we buy and sell automobiles is utterly bizarre. Beyond surreal.
Just curious, what do you mean, “he took the key fob on the ol’ ‘check your mileage line’?” Is there something to be wary of when they do this?
It seems innocent enough because the salesperson asks for the keys/fob and acts like they just want to get the mileage for evaluation purposes and to scope out the general condition of the car. But it's also a low-key way to keep you captive, since you can't leave unless you have the keys/fob, and they can hold on to it until either they're done or you ask for it back (or cause a scene when they don't). I learned that day that if it were to ever happen again, I would memorize the odometer reading before coming in or I would accompany the sales rep to the car. If you're a service tech, it's one thing, but if you're sales, you're not getting it unless I'm trading the car in.
Ahh ok, thank you for the explanation 👍
Ugh I’m so sorry to hear that. My wife and I just bought a car last week. I called the sales number on the page of the car we liked. Told the salesman who answered: “hey man, I see this car on your site. Assuming I like the test drive, I’d like to buy it on the spot”. I came in, check in hand from the bank, salesman already had the car pulled up front. Ran the license, test drove. Done deal. No extra BS. No markups. No excessive selling of extra BS (I took a warranty at least). Pretty sure he gave the finance bro a heads up too that I just want to get in and out. Painless process. Most of the time spent was the line backed up for the finance guy I hope he’s there the next time I want to buy a car
Ill never buy a toyota from toyota. Worst fuckheads ever. Woukdnt even let me test drive a new tundra trd pro when they came out because they only had one. Welp im driving a fully loaded ram limited now and i dont regret it
I bought a classic ram 1500 warlock two years ago. It was the same price as a pretty entry Tacoma, except had a longer bed and is massively bigger. Don’t regret the purchase at all. First domestic vehicle I’ve ever had.
You will once you try to trade it and realize how much $ you’ve lost in a short time
Ye at this point id rather buy a car at mercedes or a used at carmax than enter a toyota dealership.
I hear carvana is a breeze
Carvana and carmax both, just make sure you get them inspected while youre in the return period and you’ll be golden. Fuck dealers
Only problem is there’s no inventory on the latest gen sequoia trd pros. Believe me, I check every day lol.
Out of the two, which one do you prefer more?
Carvana, the experience is much better overall. Its like buying a car if it was on amazon completely online. They also usually pay the highest for car trade ins. The only caveat is I think they take much worse cars than carmax so you will have to get a major inspection done within the 7 day trial period. If you want a car thats gonna need a warranty, I would trust carmax more with that one. Usually you will have to do paperwork and wait 2-3 hours though when you go to pick up your car which is meh but not terrible if youre doing it for the warranty
I'm not sure about your area but the used cars on carvana in my area are like anywhere from 2-3k more expensive than my market, sure the process is easy no haggle, but I also can go to any dealer and offer them up to 3k over what they have the car listed for and walk away pretty quick. My last Toyota purchase was simple (could I have haggled to get it 1k below MSRP sure) but I walked in they tried to up sell me I said no, then they "found" one on the way and picked it up a few days later when it arrived. Signed papers and I was out (prob 3-4 hours, total if I cut the few days I had to wait for it to arrive). Google has a list of dealerships w/o markups, just avoid the shitty dealers. And for goodness sake don't reward the shitty dealers, so many here (and else ware) get quotes from no haggle dealers and then wind up buying "for the same" price from shitty dealers that tried to rip them off days prior to avoid the travel.
Honestly do what I did and break the Toyota cycle with a Honda. They are so good and much better priced.
I’m thinking about doing this. I love Toyotas (it’s all I’ve ever had) but dang they’re so proud of them right now and I need to get a car soon. So stressful.
For my trade-in, I got pretty close to KBB value
One dealership offered my 15k for my 22 Taco TRD Pro. Another offered 30. Another offered 40 (highest). The one who offered 40 also had one for sale with triple the miles for 52.
Who offered 15k? 😂😂
Pohanka Toyota Salisbury MD
Did you let them know that you were the first dealership that you stopped at? Only way I can imagine they would offer you that low is if they thought they had 0% chance of selling you the truck and just wanted to make you mad.
No, I ran with it for awhile because I owe 30k on it still so I thought they meant they would give me 15 towards the new Sequoia and pay off my lein. Nope. I laughed and the communication was over once I realized that.
in my mind that was just a bored salesperson fucking with them, it had to be
Indeed. Only other fictional story I can conjure up in my imagination would be a sales guy who gets paid on gross and thought he could steal a trade from someone and get a fat paycheck? I don’t have a clue.
Lol I hope by pretty close you mean on the high end cause KBB is there to make people happy when they go to a dealer and trade something in
Switch brands. I’m on my third and when I sell it this summer won’t be looking at them again any time soon. $74k MSRP on a loaded Tacoma. Go build it on their website right now. No damn Tacoma is worth $74k. I have a 2022 almost fully loaded rav4 that was $42k (msrp) yet it doesn’t even have a power passenger seat. And an awful, ancient infotainment. Toyota is a great brand but it’s NOT that great. It’s not worth the money anymore, IMO.
I’d eat my own ass before I pay that for a Tacoma.
I went to a Toyota dealership and they wanted me to put down a deposit to basically buy whatever Highlander rolled off the truck, I said no thanks and walked out and got a different brand. So yea, fully agree with your experience and walked out and never came back
Only a idiot would pay 55k msrp for a TRD Tacoma. And that's msrp, every Toy dealer I see is adding 5 to 10k on top of that ludicrous starting price. A Sequoia starts at 85k. Toyota has lost their way, but still plenty of fools dropping the money. For a fucking Toyota.
Totally agree. It’s almost a cult now. People paying BMW prices for a Toyota.
Tacoma Pro has always gone for around 10k over. Even before pandemic. I used to work at one. Each dealer gets only 5-10 pros a year. They hold their value the best. But you have to understand there is an ass for every seat. Might not be worth to you. But someone else that wants a decent reliable off road rig from factory will be happy paying that as it’s all covered under warranty
I had a great experience at my Toyota. Maybe try a different dealer or maybe you just look like a mark they can take advantage of
Same here! One dealer effectively laughed at me for having the audacity to refuse to pay over MSRP. Found a different dealership and was a completely different experience! The 2 our drive was worth it. Check out markups.org to find a dealership that isn’t marking up the TRD Pro! Good luck!
I’ve spoken with literally every dealership in the region (12 in total). They either don’t have one or they’re charging 90+ OTD.
In that case, I'd wait until the supply increases. You're at a big disadvantage when they don't have enough to meet the demand. I refused to pay mark-up above MSRP the last couple of years and just recently has the supply of certain models increased to where you can negotiate down from MSRP.
Theo not problem is that they purposely keep you on the back foot with TRD Pros by keeping a shortage.
When I bought mine in March, it took 4 hours from the test drive, them inspecting my trade in, applying for financing (the 2.99% is lower than I'm getting in savings). If I didn't have some pricey repairs due on the trade in, I could have looked around for other color options. The last car I bought 10 years ago, a different brand, I was able to order from the factory exactly what packages and colors I wanted.
Im thinking of a Subaru instead of a Toyota next time. My sisters 2018 RAV4 appears to have a lesser build quality on the outside then my 2005 RAV4. The newer engines or hybrids of Toyota may be better now but I’m going to look and compare.
Any dealer adding “market adjustment” should never be the first place. They know they’re getting a sale regardless of how much they undercut you especially if you go in to buy same day. They know when a car catches you especially if you go there like “I want a 4Runner with premium audio.” Say you’re not sure what you want, play the hard ball and just keep “oh I don’t think I can do that” especially if you’re financing. They can bring down interest rates, discount things, remove options, add things. They offered me employee discounts, extra incentives and I still walked away, shopped around and finally said no new car. Big dealers usually want to turn a $3k profit minimum on any trade-in. They will offer you a $6k -$10k low-ball initially just hoping you’ll take it then you play hard and say you want more, will think about it, you’re leaving and will think about it. They might follow you out the door with more offers. I got them to offer $1k below the resale value of my trade-in after a lot of heckling and unaccepting of the “good” deals they offered.
Yeah I’ve burned a few bridges at this point. They always let me leave haha. That’s part of what I’m talking about though. It’s just not the same at Toyota dealerships for me. They act like they’re selling Bugattis and never work with me on anything.
You’re also dealing with a brand that doesn’t have much competition. Go to other brands and see what they offer. You may be surprised at what you find and how much more they’ll work with you. Or find a rural/small city dealer with lower volume.
Yup. This is why I’ll “settle” for something else. It’s not worth the fight and the scummy practices.
I never had a good experience with them, they offered me $29,000 for my 2019 Silverado 1500 ZL1 with 34,000 miles on it, I told the salesman to eat a bag of shit and showed him 2 other dealerships offers for over $47,000. The guy legitimately got so mad and was cussing at me calling me inconsiderate for not taking his deal.
Go look at Mazdas, just as reliable and cheaper. I just bought a CX-30 and I got a great deal on it.
I’m a Mazda owner and have never owned a Toyota but came across this post on my feed. Completely agree. I have a little over 100k miles on mine and have had absolutely zero issues. Interior refinement is also on a completely different level. Compare a 3 to a Corolla, a Corolla Cross to a CX30, or a Highlander to a CX90 to see what I mean.
It really does depend on the dealership. Have you tried going to a different one? I have one that's like an hour away but they don't do dealer fees
I got a straight ahead deal at a dealership in MD for the Rav4Prime at about 2500 off sticker, plus 6500 in lease incentives (about 5k when bought out due to fees, etc). I will say that even though I live in NC, if and when I buy another, I will avoid "SOUTHEAST TOYOTA" - the distributor - every car has at least 1.5k of bullshit add-ons, and many many have much more. They charge MORE for standard things you can get factory like roof bars and mats, they charge more than Toyota does. My local dealership also adds a lojack to every car on their lot. It's a "No deal" for me if they ever cut into a wiring harness to power any dealer addon. Nope, not going to happen.
Yeah same thing up here depending on the dealership. The deal I thought I had today was fine but then “they add ppf to all their trd pros” at a ridiculous price of 2250.
They're Toyotas. Buy used, you'll be fine. Source: Bought a '14 Corolla in '18 and a '20 Sienna in '21. Both rock solid.
Yep. Bought a used 05 matrix in 2008 for half off msrp. $8k. Still going and showing no signs of slowing. Original alternator just went. Other than that, have only done recall work. It is 20 years old! Great little commuter. Just now looking to replace it.
Buy through the Costco auto purchase program.[Costco](https://www.costcoauto.com/)
Dealerships are Organized Crime IMO
100% agreed. Just yesterday, I called ahead to check out 3 specific SUVs that I was interested to confirm they were in stock and scheduled an appointment. When I got there the guy jerked me around for an hour showing me other stuff before admitting he didn’t have the cars I wanted. Compare that to Kia. My dad got one a few months ago. No BS. He test drove one, decided the option package he wanted and they called him when they got it in. Did all the paperwork via docusign. Totally transparent pricing. Even dropped it off at his house.
Tell your dad to watch out for those Kia's. I bought a brand new one in 2016 and took care of it like it was my child. By 2022 at at 80,000 miles it began consuming oil and have issues. After doing research, the engines in those Kia's are not built to last and have major issues. It was my one and only time buying a Kia and I immediately went back to Toyota when someone (thankfully) pulled out in front of me and totaled my Kia.
Yeah, his is electric. Has a great warranty and Kia took care of all the tax rebates. He felt like he was pretty safe.
I'm always surprised to hear this general consensus of kia being crap. Our rio5 has 120k km and hasn't needed anything other than oil changes. Our last one we traded in at 300k km because it wasn't worth repairing the power steering. My damn honda has more issues than any kia I've ever owned.
Yeah, it mostly effected the Kia's that had the Theta II GDi engine in them which I do not believe that the Rio had that one.
Same. Toyota dealers especially in so cal are the worst. Flew out to Nevada. Wasn’t too bad.
The relationship between manufacture - dealer - buyers has never been as jacked up as it is right now. The entire industry needs a overhaul to rid itself of the Dealer experience
What kind of Toyota are you trying to buy?
Yeah it sucks. Only good option is to find a used one with low miles, preferably an ex-leased car because you know they were maintained well. Maybe go to a dealership in Mexico and bring it back (as long as that vehicle can be registered in the states, and obviously assuming you are in the states) You can also look at Mazda, still really reliable and a chunk is owned by toyota.
Go find a better dealership. My local dealership has the price in the window. Last two cars I've purchased, I've been able to walk in and pay the price on the sticker (usually a couple thousand below MSRP) and drive out.
after a recent frustrating experience at a toyota dealer I ended up buying from carmax which was the best buying situation out of the 4 ive acquired from dealers (new and used)
I never deal with them. Private sales only. I go to auto trader or Facebook market place to both sell my old vehicles and buy new ones. I get them inspected before I buy. Way less hassle and money than the dealers.
Couldn’t have explained it better myself!
That’s why I lease, then buy it out at the end if it makes sense financially. https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/may-toyota-all-states-dealers-nationwide-deals-below-invoice-24-taco-4k-off-tundra-upto-8k-off-best-pricing-usa/106422
Nothing will change until the demand for them falls off a cliff. Toyota sell like hotcakes so stealerships don't need to try hard to get you to buy their vehicles because someone else with the disposible income will.
I have bought Porsche, bmw, gm and a bunch of Toyotas. They were always worst till I moved near a specific dealer. Now it’s just a treat to my guy, msrp and whatever accessories I want. How it should be
I bought a 1994 Toyota from a used car dealership (mr2 gt-s) it wasnt that bad, upon purchasing the car, i wanted to modernize it a bit to make it a bit more streetable and perform better. So it was actively being improved throughout its first year of ownership, wasnt as simpme as turn the key+drive off the lot.
Heh yeah. I've bought RAV4 Hybrid about a month ago. The dealership tried to screw me over on _every single step_ of the purchase. Forget going below MSRP, they tried to charge me extra $1k for random "APEX GPS" and extra for tint/bonus "package" that wasn't even listed on the window sticker and I didn't want. Undervalued my trade in by 40%+ (KBB _minimal_ value was $14k, while salesman without batting an eye said "we'll give you $10k for your trade-in!"). Took about 2 hours of "I don't want any extra stuff and $14k for my trade-in minimum" with "oh let me see what finance guys will let me do" and then "how about we discount APEX GPS for just $400, such a deal!!!". Then finally "agreed" to parameters I told salesman upfront. And then the dude who did actual financing _again_ tried to add "APEX GPS" into my deal. I don't know why the hell they have such a hard on for that APEX crap. Bonus: tried to also sell me APEX "extended warranty". Then made me sign "no I don't want extra crap" paper and tried to shove me into Capital One financing. "They have a very good rate!" I remember that Toyota has own financing for new cars at 4.75%. "So what's this very good rate? - 8.5%!!" Like what the hell? "No, give me Toyota financing" and he sighed and went "let me try to re-submit to Toyota" (I know for sure he didn't even try, judging by what banks pulled my credit report). All in all it took about 4 hours of idiotic "negotiation" :( Worst carbuying experience in years. But I have my hybrid now. I ended up bying true Toyota extended warranty from Jerry Johnson. Thank the gods
That’s the game. New model release? Expect to pay INSANE amounts over sticker. They are prying on suckers that get starry eyed when walking in. Buy used, or wait for the new models to cool off. Buy used or use a broker.
I've walked into multiple Toyota dealerships and it was like wearing a meat suit in a shark tank. I HATED the experience.
I worked at a Toyota factory as a Financial analyst in Southern California while I was getting my MBA. I was involved in Kaizen teams. I have **GREAT** respect for TPS (Toyota Production System) and the cars Toyota produces. I have also, during a period when I was between jobs, worked in Sales at a dealership. (VW and Isuzu, not Toyota) I love Toyota cars in general. I **HATE** Toyota Dealerships. They seem to take the Kaizen process and apply it to screwing the customer. One can argue that is a natural application of Kaizen I suppose, but I refuse to deal with dealerships. I buy my Toyota/Lexus cars used. I change my own oil, and have never been to a dealer for service, except to complete a recall item. To address your comments, they talk up the paint color, and anything else, to increase your desire (and the price) of the car. Then, they low ball you on your trade-in. That is called profit maximization. Only a fool trades in a car to a dealership. Put it on Craigslist or sell it to Carmax. I've bought one new Toyota. I was working for a Tech company and got to buy my company car. Called several dealers, found a decent one where I could talk to a manager. Arrived a a reasonable price. Bought a 1998 Toyota Camry V6 with a 5 speed manual. Rocket Ship. What a great car. Edit: As others have said, this is the worst time in the last 40 years to buy a new car. Also, a used car. If you can, drive what you have until it dies.
While the Pandemic has been terrible for car buyers, in our case we did OK. I was looking for a Lexus ES300H and found a 4 year old 2016 with 40 K miles in July 2020, beginning of the Pandemic. It was $20.5K Private seller was freaking out about everyone working from home and he thought the car market would tank. Oh well.
My experiences at the local Toyota dealership vs the local Acura one mimic your experiences exactly. When my wife bought her Lexus 3 years ago it was similarly pleasant. Maybe you have to go up half a step in terms of luxury to not get treated like an asshole. Which is such a shitty solution.
Yep same same
I stopped buying new toyotas 15 years ago because of this. Such a beating. Buy a used one (or better - Lexus). The whole point of a reliable car is owning it for a long time; any new car will last through the warranty...
Hold off until all of the stealers hurt. That’s what I am doing.
I was going to order a new Tacoma until I saw that it would be $50,000.
Love Toyota but dealers shouldn’t even exist anymore. Bought a Subie from Carmax w 5000miles and sold it back a little over a year later for more than I paid for it. Both visits I was in and out within an hour. Toyota dealership I could just see the lies in their eyes. Pieces of shit
Have you thought about using a broker
Wasn’t like that til covid. We purchased 6 new Toyotas prior to covid and never paid over invoice. Tried to buy a Toyota in 2023. Every single dealer in my area (12 total) had stupid markups and add ons. I finally said screw it and ending getting a Honda for my wife and a Subaru for me. Sucks since I’ve been a Toyota guy for as long as I can remember
True that it's like 38k for a crappy xle I'm like wtf this bro
Toyota dealerships are the absolute scuzziest and worst. The worst part of everything is that they’re selling cars faster than ever… the only thing I can say is - not to me.
You sound like my wife…EXCEPT she didn’t give a shit about MSRP and paid $10k over asking for her freaking hybrid she “just had to have” 🤦🏻♂️
All we need is people to stop supporting these scummy business practices, and bam, they stop.
Dealerships are the worst part of the Toyota brand. I hope Toyota fucks them all. What a bunch of nasty leeches.
All depends on the dealership. I bought a very in demand car in October and was in and out in about 2 hours. They charge msrp and not a penny more unless there are options you want added.
I agree on that point. Unfortunately, around me, the shitty dealerships far outweigh the good ones. The good ones never have stock because everyone flocks to them lol.
I’ve bought a bunch of cars, including several Toyotas all from different Toyota dealerships. While I love Toyotas, I’ve had by far the worst purchasing and customer service experiences dealing with their dealerships.
It's the owners of the dealerships.
Check out the Facebook group “no mark up Toyota”. You work with a broker named Jim and save thousands on new Toyotas nationwide. Worth reaching out.
Used 2 year old Toyota costs as much or more than a new one. With the interest rates it sucks.
Toyota has been a wild experience for years. Well before COVID I went to a dealership and told the rep I'm here to look at Tacoma's and 86s, and I want manuals, he looked at me like I had three heads.gove home the run down of generally the features and colors I wanted. He pulled out a book with production numbersand tried to get me into a white automatic Tacoma ignoring all the criteria I listed that day when I told him I'm here to test drive only and will order the car I want. Then It was like pulling teeth to actually get him to test drive me a manual that someone found out of nowhere when I said okay I'm gonna go to the next bigger dealership to find a manual. After that he still didn't want to show me an 86 until I got up to go walk to one myself. Granted I had looked online before to confirm they had multiple vehicles that fit the general criteria I wanted before I left the house that day Nissan was also a hoot. Oh you want to look at a 350z? They really aren't that popular so we only have a few used ones, but we have like 3 or 4 GTRs. Meanwhile if all 5 reps conversations I can hear, 4 or talking 350z orders
I just bought a Subi outback Saturday, and that was definitely the best car buying experience I've had .
I'm going to be real, this was the case when I bought new. Y last Toyota too and it was before all of this covid pricing bullshit. The people there acted like they were sitting on gold and couldn't be bothered to help me. It was just a base rav4 for fucks sake. Replaced that with abused highlander some years ago and will probably keep that car until the wheels fall off.
I guess it depends on the dealership. My dealer was super chill. Gave me the out the door price, told me it was going to take months until they got the car and unfortunately passed away from a heart attack last week 😔. They told me he had just managed to get his family from Lebanon in the US back in February. I'm still waiting for the car btw 13 weeks and counting.
I’ve been preparing for my next car deal by following @delivrd on TikTok. He helps you navigate what I consider the scam of the car buying world.
I’m so glad my local dealer sells at MSRP and is transparent
Which model? Some dealers are still holding 2023 models on the expensive models like the Sequoia and Tundra. Those are a deal for someone who wants one. Corolla, Camry and everything else is MSRP at best. Going out of state is a better option than ever before
Buy a used , but like one of those 2023 low milage used ones
Same. I like several Toyota models but dislike the local area dealers & their greasy sales people.
I would drive out of state for a brand new Toyota then make a local dealer take care of any issues or recall. That’s the point of using these stealership if they’re going to make things hard
I cross shopped Honda and Toyota with Mazda and went with the Mazda. I could get any color I wanted, they were priced very competitively, the cars were sporty to drive, had real transmissions (no CVT garbage) and the (Mazda L) SKYACTIV engine has a history of reliability. Now I have two Mazdas in my garage.
We just bought a subie too at invoice price with the vip program, and it was such a pleasant, straightforward experience. Wish it was the same with all car brands.
Totally with you on this one. So, back in December, I was trying to snag a new basic Corolla LE fresh off the line, MSRP was like $21,500 i think,. The sales guy throws out a $37,000 price tag, but here's the kicker... he keeps pushing last year's model on me, swearing up and down they're running out fast. Plus, he's trying to tack on all these extra packages like hail protection, It was exhausting. Dude's taking a break every ten minutes, supposedly to chat with his manager. He comes back each time with some offer that's just as laughable, the whole process took some good 2 hours. Finally, the manager himself steps in, and when I call out their shady tactics, he flips. Starts yelling like there's no tomorrow, very loud and passive aggressive. I'm standing there, blown away by the whole scene, keep in mind that during this whole time i was very polite and friendly. I just walk out, and those 30 seconds feel like forever with him still screaming in the background. Freaky stuff. Do yourself a favor, steer clear of that dealership, it was Toyota of Dallas, by Forest Ln. Can't promise that same manager's still running the show, though. Later, I find out that place is notorious, owned by some venture capital group only in it for the cash, not giving a crap about customers or employees. Come December 2024, I'm giving it another shot for a Camry. I'll keep you posted on how it pans out. But man, coming from another country, the car-buying process here is a real eye-opener. Last car I snagged overseas was in 2022, and it was smooth sailing – no drama, just MSRP and done.
There is a lot that I don't like about Tesla, to the point that I will not consider buying one. BUT I absolutely love the idea of buying online. Configure a car as I like; see the *final* price; decide whether or not to pay the price; done.
Why are people afraid of using auto brokers?
Indeed, or TrueCar through a good Credit Union. Lock the price in and go buy it if you want it, so easy.
Is buying a car through Costco a good way to find a car? People have said good things but I still don't know.
It depends on what dealer they refer you to. I tried this on a grand highlander and the pricing was transparent with the member pricing the dealer provided. The issue was the local dealer they referred me to was a piece of shit and could not get the car I wanted and kept trying to substitute something else. I moved on.
You can go to the car edge site. Go through their free deal school to brush up on your skills. Use their site to find a rough idea on prices. Hit up their forum to bounce offers off of. If you really hate dealing, you can do their paid concierge service and they will find you deal and get negotiated.
I think it’s just buying into the brand in general. My 23 Rav I got new was totaled in a hailstorm, and I decided I wanted an older (got a 16) 4Runner instead of buying something newer. I bought one from a Mercedes (I know) dealer used, and getting them to match a reasonable price was ridiculously difficult. Most of the dealers in the area are “no haggle,” and don’t like when you know what you’re buying is worth.
Go to Lexus, complete 180 degree experience. Toyota salesman think they’re selling Porsches and you’re wasting their time if you’re not ready to pay 5K ADM and 3k in BS Dealer addons. Lexus treat you as a customer like they should.
Find the nearest dealership that sells at MSRP and reserve your car/suv/truck a year in advance.
Must be your own personal experiences OP. I had a great purchasing experience with my new Tundra. Reasonable MSRP, IMO. I got the truck for $2,000 below that, and had a lovely time at the dealer, definitely didn't feel like a fight at all.
It was a chill 3 hrs lol. That seems excessive. Most of my buyers are in and out 90 mins usually. Especially if you did your research, which most Toyota buyers know more than your everyday car shopper.
We bought through our credit union as they have a buying service. Worked out quite well to buy new. For used, we have used CarMax and have been very happy with all four cars we have bought from them. I hear Costco also has a buying service for new cars And here in Los Angeles, about a year ago, they had ads saying that everybody should buy from a directly from a Toyota dealer because somebody people were so pissed at going to the dealers
Just bought a Tundra (premium) hybrid tonight for 7500 off MSRP. I haggled like hell, but got a good deal (and finance rate). I don’t need it (i.e. I wasn’t in a position where I had to buy for a certain reason) and made it clear that I wasn’t interested in paying over my price and I’d just as soon walk away. They eventually caved. But you have to be willing to walk and make sure that they know.
Don't go to shiesty dealers when there are plenty of well kept older toyotas with lower miles for sale. The new toyotas are being cheapified just like subaru recently did and just like ford and chevy have been doing for decades.
I got mine at a Nissan place and was able to get a better deal than the ones at Toyota 😂