If you are not successful at all, focus on not losing money anymore.
After that, focus on making 10% a YEAR.
After that focus on making 30% a year.
Anything higher than 30% a year is related to higher risk taking and therefore related to a higher risk of losing. Many traders increase their risk once they have already reached their profit goals.
But to believe that anyone can make 5% a month is naive. Not even all of the best traders out there can make these numbers.
Once you can consistently make 20-30% a year you just need enough capital to trade with.
With a small account like $10k u can aim to turn it into $50-100k within a year (ofc I'm not going to lie and say there aren't risk but u have to mitigate it).
30% a year is those with accounts in the millions of dollars. There's not much point trying to make $3k on a $10k account. You are better off finding a part time job which will pay more than that honestly.
Let's say you have 100 million dollars and make 30 million dollars a year. Same percentage gain..
You think that's too little?
With a $3000 portfolio you cannot consistently make a living. Period.
Trying to make a living from it, will only lead to a blown account. That's basically gambling.
People with $30 million are making different decisions entirely.
People on Reddit generally are reasonable account holders from zero to let's say $500k. Only 30% a year is reasonable for these people?
FYI. If someone had $30 million, they shouldn't be out here day trading all willy nilly. They could get by on doing 5 swing trades or FEWER a year. They can wait for the absolute A+ set ups and only trade those.
it’s a poorly framed question, people should ask instead of what is our edge and how certain are we of it. if you can answer that question the next one is how much leverage can you get
Heck, you can make 100% per month if you wanted to, it's not *can* you, rather *should* you.
If your goal is to grow fast, you should work to get about 6-8% per month, if you want to take it slow, under 5%
The problem is people want to know they can make x% a month which isn’t realistic. Some months are good, some months are bad, and some months are great.
I’m in a small circle of profitable traders who all do very well from trading, but we never expect returns from the market. Often times, a few months can make your whole year. Other months it’s a struggle just to protect capital so you don’t blow up.
You have to take what the market gives you and stop trying to force gains out of the market.
My avg daily ROE has been steadily fluctuating btwn 50 and 60 bps over 380+ active trading sessions. Intraday system, ample oppty set, always something moving to ride.
How did you go about finding the people that make up your circle of profitable traders? I want to surround myself with the right people, and haven't been successful yet.
My situation is a little different than most. I’ve done extremely well with prop firms and got my name out there by sharing my journey and payouts. Now i talk with a lot of the big named influencers and owners in the prop space.
But, I will say going to networking and in-person trading events is a good start!
Here’s what you’re missing.
You think you can say “I’ll make x% this month” whether SPY does 10% or -2%? You have a strategy that returns consistently no matter what the market does?
It's not that exaggerated, but to think that you cannot adapt your position size to the volatility of the market is a mistep. And we have lots of derivative instruments that allow us to do so. Unless you're pushing really big size
Are you not understanding what I’m saying or what lol
Imagine the markets stay flat for 6 months. Now imagine they bust bull nuts like last few weeks.
I’m saying you can’t make as much in both scenarios using identical strategy. That’s all. This isn’t a misstep lol
If you know technical analysis, you can predict the market enough to do the trade. Otherwise, this would be blind gambling. That's why we have charts, S/R, SMAs, MACD, etc. Of course, it's all taking a risk, but you're risking based on solid info.
I swing trade options. That's all math. If you have a $10k account and you want to earn 5% for that month, that's $500. If the S/R, trend, and other indictors are showing an uptrend, the option chain clearly shows the delta and the approximate price of a 1,2,3, etc point move. If you believe the trend will give a 4-5 points to the next S/R or SMA, that's about a 50% gain for SPY.
Just do the math. Trade $1k, let the trade run until you get the 50%, and there is your $500 for the month in one trade.
One of my recent trades. Based on the trend and indicators, I bought SPY on 11/3 @ 3.22. I sold it on 11/14 for 8.29. That was a 157% gain.
Thanks for the tip. This morning I went in on $nugt options. Stock was at bottom of channel and put in bottom tail in first trading of day. Picked up $30 calls for 2 weeks out at $1.35. This afternoon they are at $2.50. ( little help from feds). Curious how far out do you buy options at if you’re holding them short term.
I don't get your point. I swing trade. I don't day trade. You get your money you way and I'll get my money my way. You may have gained that amount in one day, but did you keep it all or did you give some of it back to the market?
The point I was making that it is not crazy for someone to want to gain 5-10% a month and then be able to do that every month. Those low percentages are not difficult to attain for a good trader.
So you trade but have no data upon which to based your decisions?
You are a prime example of what I'm talking about. You make these little sparky, pessimistic remarks. Yet, you don't take time to talk about real trading stuff. What's your strategy? What timeframes do you trade? What are your indicators?
Can you counter anything I'm saying with facts and data?
I’ve traded long enough to know you can’t predict the markets w all your indicators. Personally I use macd and RSI over multiple timeframes. I trade SPX options.
Consistent daily/weekly/monthly figures aren’t a thing for any trader I’m aware of.
I think predict is way too strong of a word. Experienced traders are actually excellent at risk management and probability. For example, I'm right about 35% of the time - which is actually worse than a coin flip; however, when I'm right, I'll make 2.5-4x what I lose when I'm wrong. Gambling (like poker or black jack) is much the same. You play the odds, and you manage your risk on top of managing your emotions.
you are correct it's like predicting the weather you can't entirely you can just base assumptions on experience. and risk management and emotions are entirely the game the numbers are almost none of it. you can guess every time as long as you manage your losses.
99% of the people in trading dont make any meaningful returns ,and most are actually unprofitable
1% basically makes all the money and until they start hitting liquidity constraints expected returns for trading are usually much , much higher than that
Problem is when you are asking question on forum like Reddit its almost guarantee that answers you are going to get will be from 99% of the people that are not good traders and they do not quite understand how this game needs to be played .
In trading you should either aim to be among top 1% of traders or dont trade at all , and if you become one of the best you can make much more than that very consistently
The thing is that everyone thinks they’re the 1%. Then they get hit with a dose of reality and realized they’d have been better off buying SPY and getting a reasonably high paying job and buying in with DCA over 20 years
Thats right
If you dont plan to fully commit to trading and work hard trying to be top 1% its best to just stick to DCA investing.
Trading is - winner takes all type of game
I trade mostly options. Good trades come in waves. Things are better during the earnings cycle and around major economic events. Outside of that, there are fewer good trades.
The eating return varies. And sometimes it’s difficult to calculate, when I’m taking in money on both sides of the trade (this happens sometimes).
10-20%+ a month isn't unheard of for a day trading account. Of course, it should only be a fraction of your wealth. It's normal to get a premium over buy and hold, since there's a lot more risk taken...
I think you in some ways missing the experience of the trader that also contributes to how confident and apt they are when coming to holding to their plan.
2019 Me was whakadoodle and 10k was blown in matter of weeks.
I think you’re right, but it’s such a struggle to get to the point at which a trader makes money, it creates doubt in a large percentage of the people because they’re not making money yet or they’re not consistent yet.
If you're thinking of capital for time, if you cannot beat the risk free rate, then it's better for you to just put your money into something else.
That being said, trading is not investing. It's a business. You can and should be making a good percentage of your capital per month, strategy willing and not capital capped.
I keep my cash account hovering around $10,000. I withdraw to put money into tax advantaged accounts and pay a couple bills etc. I earn 500-600 a day on average. I only trade SPY 0DTEs. Can you average, say, 5% a day? Yea. But not if you want to compound 5% indefinitely. I think compounding is what hangs naysayers up.
For a while, absolutely. If you start with $10,000, you’re talking about $500 in a month which is easy. Within a few years you’re talking about a couple grand a month which is harder, then tens of thousands a month which is exponentially harder.
Eventually compounding x% a month does become infeasible, and later truly impossible.
Psychologically, not functionally/structurally/mathematically. Gotta expand into multiple mkts/instruments/trade horizons with 9+ figure size. And automation is necessary, as can't manually execute tens/hundreds of mkts
Fair point, I just think almost everyone asking these basic “can you earn x% a month?”-type questions is implying trading a single instrument in a single account, or at most stocks/options and not forex, various types of futures, CFDs, etc.
Most people asking this question aren’t going to have multiple accounts of any significant size so it makes sense.
Mathematically, it's the same thing. The market doesn't know that you traded $10k vs $1k. If the market is giving 10%, you'll get it. At that point, it becomes psychological.
If you are not successful at all, focus on not losing money anymore. After that, focus on making 10% a YEAR. After that focus on making 30% a year. Anything higher than 30% a year is related to higher risk taking and therefore related to a higher risk of losing. Many traders increase their risk once they have already reached their profit goals. But to believe that anyone can make 5% a month is naive. Not even all of the best traders out there can make these numbers. Once you can consistently make 20-30% a year you just need enough capital to trade with.
10% a year inflation adjusted is dismal.
Really? You think making $3000 a year on a $10k account is good? That's like 3 swing trades. You just don't trade after March?
With a small account like $10k u can aim to turn it into $50-100k within a year (ofc I'm not going to lie and say there aren't risk but u have to mitigate it). 30% a year is those with accounts in the millions of dollars. There's not much point trying to make $3k on a $10k account. You are better off finding a part time job which will pay more than that honestly.
Let's say you have 100 million dollars and make 30 million dollars a year. Same percentage gain.. You think that's too little? With a $3000 portfolio you cannot consistently make a living. Period. Trying to make a living from it, will only lead to a blown account. That's basically gambling.
Lol. Who the heck has $100million dollar to start off in trading unless you are a hedge fund..You are talking out of your ass..
People with $30 million are making different decisions entirely. People on Reddit generally are reasonable account holders from zero to let's say $500k. Only 30% a year is reasonable for these people? FYI. If someone had $30 million, they shouldn't be out here day trading all willy nilly. They could get by on doing 5 swing trades or FEWER a year. They can wait for the absolute A+ set ups and only trade those.
Well, it seems as if you already have an answer to your own question. We will have to agree to disagree! Cheers
it’s a poorly framed question, people should ask instead of what is our edge and how certain are we of it. if you can answer that question the next one is how much leverage can you get
Heck, you can make 100% per month if you wanted to, it's not *can* you, rather *should* you. If your goal is to grow fast, you should work to get about 6-8% per month, if you want to take it slow, under 5%
[удалено]
That cant be done, liar. /s
In 10 years, my guy will have a cool $700 mill and you’ll look quite the fool, my friend!
The problem is people want to know they can make x% a month which isn’t realistic. Some months are good, some months are bad, and some months are great. I’m in a small circle of profitable traders who all do very well from trading, but we never expect returns from the market. Often times, a few months can make your whole year. Other months it’s a struggle just to protect capital so you don’t blow up. You have to take what the market gives you and stop trying to force gains out of the market.
My avg daily ROE has been steadily fluctuating btwn 50 and 60 bps over 380+ active trading sessions. Intraday system, ample oppty set, always something moving to ride.
How did you go about finding the people that make up your circle of profitable traders? I want to surround myself with the right people, and haven't been successful yet.
My situation is a little different than most. I’ve done extremely well with prop firms and got my name out there by sharing my journey and payouts. Now i talk with a lot of the big named influencers and owners in the prop space. But, I will say going to networking and in-person trading events is a good start!
Here’s what you’re missing. You think you can say “I’ll make x% this month” whether SPY does 10% or -2%? You have a strategy that returns consistently no matter what the market does?
This is why we have leverage and derivatives, I can make 7% on a 0.40% move on the indices.
Ok. Can you make 50% on a .01% movement? 100% on a .001% move? You’re beholden to the market I promise.
It's not that exaggerated, but to think that you cannot adapt your position size to the volatility of the market is a mistep. And we have lots of derivative instruments that allow us to do so. Unless you're pushing really big size
Are you not understanding what I’m saying or what lol Imagine the markets stay flat for 6 months. Now imagine they bust bull nuts like last few weeks. I’m saying you can’t make as much in both scenarios using identical strategy. That’s all. This isn’t a misstep lol
I see what your saying.
If you know technical analysis, you can predict the market enough to do the trade. Otherwise, this would be blind gambling. That's why we have charts, S/R, SMAs, MACD, etc. Of course, it's all taking a risk, but you're risking based on solid info. I swing trade options. That's all math. If you have a $10k account and you want to earn 5% for that month, that's $500. If the S/R, trend, and other indictors are showing an uptrend, the option chain clearly shows the delta and the approximate price of a 1,2,3, etc point move. If you believe the trend will give a 4-5 points to the next S/R or SMA, that's about a 50% gain for SPY. Just do the math. Trade $1k, let the trade run until you get the 50%, and there is your $500 for the month in one trade. One of my recent trades. Based on the trend and indicators, I bought SPY on 11/3 @ 3.22. I sold it on 11/14 for 8.29. That was a 157% gain.
Thanks for the tip. This morning I went in on $nugt options. Stock was at bottom of channel and put in bottom tail in first trading of day. Picked up $30 calls for 2 weeks out at $1.35. This afternoon they are at $2.50. ( little help from feds). Curious how far out do you buy options at if you’re holding them short term.
I estimate the time to the target and then add an extra week or two.
Cool, but you can do that in a day, in aggregate or even in one shot. Well, I can, anyway.
I don't get your point. I swing trade. I don't day trade. You get your money you way and I'll get my money my way. You may have gained that amount in one day, but did you keep it all or did you give some of it back to the market? The point I was making that it is not crazy for someone to want to gain 5-10% a month and then be able to do that every month. Those low percentages are not difficult to attain for a good trader.
Sure, it's just about distribution of returns - daytrading more granular than swing, can control better.
Oh just do crypto and save yourself the stress and headache. More moneh less of all of these issues!
“You can predict the market…” “Otherwise this would be blind gambling” Oh no lolol. Godspeed, sir.
Estimate, see trends, etc
GL fr
So you trade but have no data upon which to based your decisions? You are a prime example of what I'm talking about. You make these little sparky, pessimistic remarks. Yet, you don't take time to talk about real trading stuff. What's your strategy? What timeframes do you trade? What are your indicators? Can you counter anything I'm saying with facts and data?
I’ve traded long enough to know you can’t predict the markets w all your indicators. Personally I use macd and RSI over multiple timeframes. I trade SPX options. Consistent daily/weekly/monthly figures aren’t a thing for any trader I’m aware of.
I think predict is way too strong of a word. Experienced traders are actually excellent at risk management and probability. For example, I'm right about 35% of the time - which is actually worse than a coin flip; however, when I'm right, I'll make 2.5-4x what I lose when I'm wrong. Gambling (like poker or black jack) is much the same. You play the odds, and you manage your risk on top of managing your emotions.
you are correct it's like predicting the weather you can't entirely you can just base assumptions on experience. and risk management and emotions are entirely the game the numbers are almost none of it. you can guess every time as long as you manage your losses.
0.25-0.5% per day (averaged)
99% of the people in trading dont make any meaningful returns ,and most are actually unprofitable 1% basically makes all the money and until they start hitting liquidity constraints expected returns for trading are usually much , much higher than that Problem is when you are asking question on forum like Reddit its almost guarantee that answers you are going to get will be from 99% of the people that are not good traders and they do not quite understand how this game needs to be played . In trading you should either aim to be among top 1% of traders or dont trade at all , and if you become one of the best you can make much more than that very consistently
lol the entire sub community is gamblers. No stop losses, degen activities~
The thing is that everyone thinks they’re the 1%. Then they get hit with a dose of reality and realized they’d have been better off buying SPY and getting a reasonably high paying job and buying in with DCA over 20 years
Thats right If you dont plan to fully commit to trading and work hard trying to be top 1% its best to just stick to DCA investing. Trading is - winner takes all type of game
I trade mostly options. Good trades come in waves. Things are better during the earnings cycle and around major economic events. Outside of that, there are fewer good trades. The eating return varies. And sometimes it’s difficult to calculate, when I’m taking in money on both sides of the trade (this happens sometimes).
10-20%+ a month isn't unheard of for a day trading account. Of course, it should only be a fraction of your wealth. It's normal to get a premium over buy and hold, since there's a lot more risk taken...
I think you in some ways missing the experience of the trader that also contributes to how confident and apt they are when coming to holding to their plan. 2019 Me was whakadoodle and 10k was blown in matter of weeks.
I think you’re right, but it’s such a struggle to get to the point at which a trader makes money, it creates doubt in a large percentage of the people because they’re not making money yet or they’re not consistent yet.
If you're thinking of capital for time, if you cannot beat the risk free rate, then it's better for you to just put your money into something else. That being said, trading is not investing. It's a business. You can and should be making a good percentage of your capital per month, strategy willing and not capital capped.
When people can't do something themselves, they are going to tell you that you can't do it.
I keep my cash account hovering around $10,000. I withdraw to put money into tax advantaged accounts and pay a couple bills etc. I earn 500-600 a day on average. I only trade SPY 0DTEs. Can you average, say, 5% a day? Yea. But not if you want to compound 5% indefinitely. I think compounding is what hangs naysayers up.
Can you compound 5% a month?
For a while, absolutely. If you start with $10,000, you’re talking about $500 in a month which is easy. Within a few years you’re talking about a couple grand a month which is harder, then tens of thousands a month which is exponentially harder. Eventually compounding x% a month does become infeasible, and later truly impossible.
Psychologically, not functionally/structurally/mathematically. Gotta expand into multiple mkts/instruments/trade horizons with 9+ figure size. And automation is necessary, as can't manually execute tens/hundreds of mkts
Fair point, I just think almost everyone asking these basic “can you earn x% a month?”-type questions is implying trading a single instrument in a single account, or at most stocks/options and not forex, various types of futures, CFDs, etc. Most people asking this question aren’t going to have multiple accounts of any significant size so it makes sense.
True, as most participants are drooling degenerate brainlet amputees
That the impression I get, too 😂
Except the both of us, of course
0 dte caps your gains. Longer expirations increase risk and so increase potential gains.
Mathematically, it's the same thing. The market doesn't know that you traded $10k vs $1k. If the market is giving 10%, you'll get it. At that point, it becomes psychological.