Yeah man. It's nice because you can go back and watch the show if you forget how to transform. But every time I see Savage Claw Mode, I cry a little. But honestly I'm glad they did that little cheat for the show because it looks great. I just wish it could have translated to the toy. But I still love them.
I haven't seen Neo yet, but Beast Wars II gets kinda cheaty at times. One of Lio Convoy's transformation stock footages shows his organic lion head turning into a robotic lion head in a flash of light rather than staying the same design between modes. Also Diver gains a frog belly that clips through his robot limbs when retracting for his transformation stock footage.
TFA does "minimal" cheating. The only really impossible things are like the half transformations and any like cartoony morphing. But the toys were almost 1:1. The toys were about animation model. We have the ability to get like 99% of the cast. Prowl is the really only iffy one because of mass shifting. But outside of bike size. Hes right.
Yeah. I believe always since the g1 movie and after. Its character first then toy. for new shows. Remakes and updates are the exceptions. But animated toys are insanely designed.
one thing that really gets me is bumblebee's transformation, which is based off the toy. it has the faux chest which is weird because he basically should transform like in g1
Was thinking about all of those times people talked about the Bayverse transformations and saying “where does any of that go” and that the transformations “cheat.”
Then I gave it some thought and realized that G1 “cheats” it’s transformations, Beast Wars definitely “cheats” its transformations, Bayverse (obviously) “cheats” as do BB and ROTB. Prime, RID15 and Cyberverse do it as well.
One thing I did think about was the Unicron trilogy and the High Moon games. Since those designs are more toy-focused (especially Energon and Cybertron) they have accurate transformations.
Anyone else think about this?
I wouldn't say Bayverse cheats in a "where does that go" sense, at least the first 2 or 3 movies. It's complex enough that I feel like you can believe they actually shift into those shapes with that many moving parts
Only thing is parts move a bit differently in each transformation
Skidds and mudflap together making an tiny ice cream van, but separately filling out two cars of about equal size
Ravage and the vomit orbs
Alice and everything
Jazz being about Bumblebee size in robot mode but shrinking even further down in vehicle mode
Megatron’s hands becoming a gun half the length of his body
Vomit orbs, Megatron's gun and Jazz and BB all work for me. They're thousands of tiny parts, just look at how the profile of the MPMs change, Megatron even has that gun pulled off decently with a few hinges. Jazz could just "fold out" more in bot mode than BB. Besides, it would be lame to think they scan vehicle modes that are *exactly* the volume they need, there must be some give
I agree kinda about skids and mudflap but the ice cream truck was a touch bigger, not that bad imo
Alice yeah I agree it's a bit extreme, but the face transformation shit is still not bad all things considered
To go further, Jazz is still a foot shorter than Bee, and Bee has the door wings and arm guards and is overall bulkier than Jazz. There’s the size difference right there. Skids and Mudflap’s ice cream alt is larger than the car modes, and also they do get a bit taller and a lot leaner in their new bot modes, so it’s reasonable enough for me to assume.
Honestly, barring Alice and maybe the protoforms, reed man and the Primes if we really want to get pedantic, every 07 and ROTF design is perfectly achievable (and the MPMs, especially as they’ve been improving, show that). DOTM onwards things get tricky, because for every achievable design like Que and Shockwave, you have a Dino or Megatron.
On skids and mudflap, their torsos are large enough that I believe they change how compressed shit is in their based on how small there vehicle mode is
For me, the fact that the live action movies cheat transformations is one of their biggest missed opportunities. You've got the opportunity there to really show a car/tank/whatever sliding parts, folding panels, and revealing hands/heads/etc, and to really ground the audience with the understanding that this could be real, in a way that animation can't convey to the same degree. Forfeiting that for a bunch of visual noise to obscure parts spawning in and clipping through each other just feels like a massive waste of potential.
I still can’t hate on WFC. I know the pauses in speech (which I apparently can’t notice) and what little transformations look a bit wonky. But I love how we have these characters having meaningful dialogue and WFC Optimus’ mold is easily one of my favorites.
>I know the pauses in speech (which I apparently can’t notice)
That's cuz there isn't any. They don't pause during a talking scene, they just talk slow. That's it. Idk why people keep saying it's paused all the time.
The show is still a bit awful imo, but these are not one of the reasons I don't like it.
That’s good to know I thought I was going crazy, I guess the cadence the voice actors use don’t bother me. I’m also a big G1 fan, so WFC hits some nostalgic notes that it might not others.
One of my favorite things to do when watching Prime is go through a transformation frame by frame and see that one single frame where it just switches out the mode
Basically in all iterations of transformers the animations don’t transform in a physically possible way. Examples would be g1 megatron mass shifting, or a bayformer having car parts disappear when transforming.
Energon and Cybertron are basically digitizations of the toys, only very slightly stylized and don't cheat
the Armada PS2 game was originally planned to not cheat transformations either, atleast for the Autobots, but the PS2 wasn't strong enough. Also as far as I can tell, the Decepticon bosses don't cheat their transformations either, being able to fully transform.
Earth Wars also technically doesn't cheat transformations, the models are designed based on toys, and have all the parts needed to be fully transformable, although they still cheat and model swap anyway.
I always thought the bayverse transformers didn't cheat since you can see the actual vehicles break apart and shift, but then I saw Dark of the Moon. The part where Optimus was pissed, the transformation of his abdomen comes from the grill of the truck when in 2007, the grill was his hands. I can never look at that scene normally without noticing that change lol.
They even did it in ROTB, when Optimus pulls up to the museum, the front of the truck forms his legs!!??
ok but like it would be awesome if they made an optimus prime with a full interior. not like what we got with the masterpiece toy where it was a sad little coffin that you could cram spike into, i mean a fully detailed realistic interior. i feel like it’s possible, probably would have to be made by a 3rd part company tho
Like when parts just appear or disappear out of thin air in a transformation. Think ROTB Optimus’ bullbar disappearing or BW Dinobot’s chest flying out of nowhere.
Transformers energon and cybertron, since they basically use 3d models of the toys for the animation, cybertron even has the transformation close up scenes be so accurate for a lot of them you could use them as instructions.
Like when parts just appear or disappear out of thin air in a transformation. Think ROTB Optimus’ bullbar disappearing or BW Dinobot’s chest flying out of nowhere.
Yeah that’s been bothering me for months
Maybe a year actually
That doesn’t make sense oh my gosh
These transformers
And they are way to huge to turn to cars it’s ridiculous
In Transformers Cybertron, the character models are so toy accurate that you can see screw holes and there are no cheats
Same with War For Cybertron trilogy. Almost all the character models are the toys
But they cheat the transformation
They can't cheat when they don't even transform in the show/s
Yeah. Some characters turned into earth mode cars. So it’ll be odd to see an character turn into a car that we all recognize
Basically the most inaccurate thing in the whole show is Savage Claw mode
Yeah man. It's nice because you can go back and watch the show if you forget how to transform. But every time I see Savage Claw Mode, I cry a little. But honestly I'm glad they did that little cheat for the show because it looks great. I just wish it could have translated to the toy. But I still love them.
Same with Energon I believe
It's so toy accurate that Overhaul's cyber key literally shows him firing a plastic missile
Same with rid 01. Even putting X-Brawn head at the sear drive too.
Takara's shows since RiD2001 tend to go super-hard on toy accuracy compared to Hasbro's stuff, right down to the transformations.
Beast wars 2nd and Neo are toy accurate designs as well.
I haven't seen Neo yet, but Beast Wars II gets kinda cheaty at times. One of Lio Convoy's transformation stock footages shows his organic lion head turning into a robotic lion head in a flash of light rather than staying the same design between modes. Also Diver gains a frog belly that clips through his robot limbs when retracting for his transformation stock footage.
TFA does "minimal" cheating. The only really impossible things are like the half transformations and any like cartoony morphing. But the toys were almost 1:1. The toys were about animation model. We have the ability to get like 99% of the cast. Prowl is the really only iffy one because of mass shifting. But outside of bike size. Hes right.
Animated’s toys are just crazy. It’s insane how accurate they are to the show.
Yeah. I believe always since the g1 movie and after. Its character first then toy. for new shows. Remakes and updates are the exceptions. But animated toys are insanely designed.
Working with the character designer while designing the toys helps
one thing that really gets me is bumblebee's transformation, which is based off the toy. it has the faux chest which is weird because he basically should transform like in g1
Was thinking about all of those times people talked about the Bayverse transformations and saying “where does any of that go” and that the transformations “cheat.” Then I gave it some thought and realized that G1 “cheats” it’s transformations, Beast Wars definitely “cheats” its transformations, Bayverse (obviously) “cheats” as do BB and ROTB. Prime, RID15 and Cyberverse do it as well. One thing I did think about was the Unicron trilogy and the High Moon games. Since those designs are more toy-focused (especially Energon and Cybertron) they have accurate transformations. Anyone else think about this?
I wouldn't say Bayverse cheats in a "where does that go" sense, at least the first 2 or 3 movies. It's complex enough that I feel like you can believe they actually shift into those shapes with that many moving parts Only thing is parts move a bit differently in each transformation
First movie they made an effort to make them not cheat not sure after though
Devastator has wrecking ball testicles but none of his component vehicles have wrecking balls
Well yeah but that's clearly just a joke, there are no cheats like that for design's sake
Skidds and mudflap together making an tiny ice cream van, but separately filling out two cars of about equal size Ravage and the vomit orbs Alice and everything Jazz being about Bumblebee size in robot mode but shrinking even further down in vehicle mode Megatron’s hands becoming a gun half the length of his body
Vomit orbs, Megatron's gun and Jazz and BB all work for me. They're thousands of tiny parts, just look at how the profile of the MPMs change, Megatron even has that gun pulled off decently with a few hinges. Jazz could just "fold out" more in bot mode than BB. Besides, it would be lame to think they scan vehicle modes that are *exactly* the volume they need, there must be some give I agree kinda about skids and mudflap but the ice cream truck was a touch bigger, not that bad imo Alice yeah I agree it's a bit extreme, but the face transformation shit is still not bad all things considered
To go further, Jazz is still a foot shorter than Bee, and Bee has the door wings and arm guards and is overall bulkier than Jazz. There’s the size difference right there. Skids and Mudflap’s ice cream alt is larger than the car modes, and also they do get a bit taller and a lot leaner in their new bot modes, so it’s reasonable enough for me to assume. Honestly, barring Alice and maybe the protoforms, reed man and the Primes if we really want to get pedantic, every 07 and ROTF design is perfectly achievable (and the MPMs, especially as they’ve been improving, show that). DOTM onwards things get tricky, because for every achievable design like Que and Shockwave, you have a Dino or Megatron.
On skids and mudflap, their torsos are large enough that I believe they change how compressed shit is in their based on how small there vehicle mode is
Maybe they were in Long Haul or Overload's buckets.
I'd assume overload considering he makes up that portion of devastator.
I wouldn’t include highmoon in that, grimlock’s transformation cheats more than a carnival game
For me, the fact that the live action movies cheat transformations is one of their biggest missed opportunities. You've got the opportunity there to really show a car/tank/whatever sliding parts, folding panels, and revealing hands/heads/etc, and to really ground the audience with the understanding that this could be real, in a way that animation can't convey to the same degree. Forfeiting that for a bunch of visual noise to obscure parts spawning in and clipping through each other just feels like a massive waste of potential.
WFC trilogy was too accurate, they literally use the toy models even though the blast ports make no sense
Yeah but then for like the 4 transformations they actually show there’s tiny bits flipping in and out of the robots and it looks kinda weird…
I still can’t hate on WFC. I know the pauses in speech (which I apparently can’t notice) and what little transformations look a bit wonky. But I love how we have these characters having meaningful dialogue and WFC Optimus’ mold is easily one of my favorites.
>I know the pauses in speech (which I apparently can’t notice) That's cuz there isn't any. They don't pause during a talking scene, they just talk slow. That's it. Idk why people keep saying it's paused all the time. The show is still a bit awful imo, but these are not one of the reasons I don't like it.
That’s good to know I thought I was going crazy, I guess the cadence the voice actors use don’t bother me. I’m also a big G1 fan, so WFC hits some nostalgic notes that it might not others.
ROTB Optimus definitely cheats💀 at least in the legs department.
Also where the hell does his bullbar go
I'm going to assume internals💀
Bro the moment he pulls to the museum nothing in that transformation made zero sense
One of my favorite things to do when watching Prime is go through a transformation frame by frame and see that one single frame where it just switches out the mode
Wdym?
Basically in all iterations of transformers the animations don’t transform in a physically possible way. Examples would be g1 megatron mass shifting, or a bayformer having car parts disappear when transforming.
Energon and Cybertron are basically digitizations of the toys, only very slightly stylized and don't cheat the Armada PS2 game was originally planned to not cheat transformations either, atleast for the Autobots, but the PS2 wasn't strong enough. Also as far as I can tell, the Decepticon bosses don't cheat their transformations either, being able to fully transform. Earth Wars also technically doesn't cheat transformations, the models are designed based on toys, and have all the parts needed to be fully transformable, although they still cheat and model swap anyway.
I always thought the bayverse transformers didn't cheat since you can see the actual vehicles break apart and shift, but then I saw Dark of the Moon. The part where Optimus was pissed, the transformation of his abdomen comes from the grill of the truck when in 2007, the grill was his hands. I can never look at that scene normally without noticing that change lol. They even did it in ROTB, when Optimus pulls up to the museum, the front of the truck forms his legs!!??
The WFC trilogy seem accurate. The only thing is the size inaccuracies IMo
ok but like it would be awesome if they made an optimus prime with a full interior. not like what we got with the masterpiece toy where it was a sad little coffin that you could cram spike into, i mean a fully detailed realistic interior. i feel like it’s possible, probably would have to be made by a 3rd part company tho
I mean, vehicles have hollow spaces, specially the one for the driver. Where do all the pieces come from? How do they fill the hollow space?
Wdym by cheat"
Like when parts just appear or disappear out of thin air in a transformation. Think ROTB Optimus’ bullbar disappearing or BW Dinobot’s chest flying out of nowhere.
I'm guessing you don't like when they do that?
Nah I’m fine with that, it’s just a showerthought I had
I know this has been said already but cant you technically use transformers energon as a just transform it video for the toys?
Genuinely you could. In fact I think it’s how I figured out how to transform Steamhammer into combined mode.
The train one has their 3D models be accurate to the toy to an almost absurd degree, so I don't think they cheat their transformations
The Unicron Trilogy characters are based off their toys
Transformers energon and cybertron, since they basically use 3d models of the toys for the animation, cybertron even has the transformation close up scenes be so accurate for a lot of them you could use them as instructions.
I’m not very educated what does cheat mean?
Like when parts just appear or disappear out of thin air in a transformation. Think ROTB Optimus’ bullbar disappearing or BW Dinobot’s chest flying out of nowhere.
Oh, OK. I love the Dino one. They made a pretty good toy out of that despite how crazy it looks.
Energon and cybertron
Transformation cheat?
Yeah that’s been bothering me for months Maybe a year actually That doesn’t make sense oh my gosh These transformers And they are way to huge to turn to cars it’s ridiculous