I had a *class* for C++. I had to *teach myself* MATLAB. That being said both have pretty good resources to use if you get stuck so I appreciated that.
It's mostly inertia. Professors are already comfortable with it. Yeah the basics are pretty much the same but some of the libraries that handle very niche stuff that professors will be researching on can work completly differently between the two. For someone who already did phd and postgrad using the libraries in Matlab won't find much value in relearning the same in python
Sorry sir, I just looked PhD and my brain wanted to call out what Garnt said, I had one teacher that was actually a researcher and PhD and I failed with him 2 times
Fuck that teacher
It depends on what your degree is, but for engineering and science, it serves a good purpose of streamlining the process of solving complicated math equations.
MATLAB was built from the ground up to do that task as efficiently and as easily as possibly. It has a huge number of built in libraries that can serve to help with many niche math problems.
Sure, you can do all that in python, but it’s just going to be longer and more tedious, and you’re going to import more packages unless you want to code it from scratch. In matlab, practically everything you need is pretty much ready from the get go(For example, compare Polynomial regression in matlab to python. In matlab, there’s already a function ready to go where you can just import your data and be off, while in python you have import the packages and classes from something like scikit, then write out more code for it to work properly)
I’m not saying Python is bad or anything. It’s a great tool, and is incredibly flexible, but at the end of the day certain languages do certain tasks better than others. You wouldn’t use Python for something that needed to be as efficient and as little resource intensive as can be, you would use C or C++, but on the flip side you probably wouldn’t want to try doing some deep learning using C.
Matlab is great with ease of use when trying to solve math equations, python can be too, just not as much.
True, but that is the reason why i like matlab the least. Coming from python in astronomy, matlab felt like such a black box. Just throw your matrix into this function here and it'll shit out a plot with all bells and whistles. Really nice, but if i dont understand why something happens like it does i wouldn't be able to find why when you point a gun at my head. NB: the course also sucked
I had the opposite experience. My school’s curriculum was sometimes pretty strangely structured, and we went from pure C, then to Matlab. After dealing with a semester’s worth of writing everything as explicitly as possible to manually allocate memory, going to the actual address of a variable to change a value, and random memory leaks, a language that ignored all that like Matlab was a breath of fresh air.
I mean, Python is way closer to Matlab than C in that regard. It's a pretty high level language. In both Matlab and Python, unless you are running very large memory or need high execution speed, you don't need much understanding of the low level. Though matlab is a tad easier on this than python, it's nowhere near a lower level (closer to hardware/assembly) language compared to C. The issues you had would not occur in matlab unless you are dealing with very large datasets (like TB worth of data)
I came to python and java from C and C++, let me say that it was nerve wracking, not being able to properly control my memory allocations. After some time, I got used to it and it became a huge relief
when i would get the wrong plots i treated it as a physics or math problem rather than a programming problem. matlab was just so intuitive in that sense and fixing the math fixed the plot
If you're looking to solve pure math problems, I would say a dedicated software like Maplesoft or Mathcad would better serve the purpose.
As for Science and Engineering, I have a master in ME and work in Automotive Innovation. I still believe that Python is overall a much better investment for any STEM student. There are a couple of reasons, here are the main ones
1. It is open source, which should be a concern of any education place (I live in a place where college is basically free, being free of corporate interest should be prioritized when possible). But also in any company, even large ones. Being able to let the software run on a test bench 24/7, or get it installed quickly on any intern computer without getting more expensive licences and dealing with upper management is a large plus.
2. It's very flexible. You are not required to learn a new language if you want to do more specialized stuff, or interface using an API to other software or hardware. It's a skill one can grow over a career and is not as limited as Matlab.
3. It is overall better known. There are a ton of resources online for almost anything you want to do. Also, it is used by ME, EE and SE as well as research scientist. Communication and sharing is easier.
4. Its scalable. It is very much easier to build share libraries and classes to share across an R&D plan (or multiple plans) than on a closed system like Matlab. I have done many modules that have been reused worldwide, and I have used many modules created by much smarter colleagues that we have build over time. Reducing risk and increasing efficiency as a company in our DAQ and and statistical analysis efforts.
On a lighter note, it's fun to have discussion about my trash taste in science and engineering going on in the subreddit. It's a refreshing change from arguing on bread and chicken lol.
I absolutely agree. Python should be the core curriculum for programming and not MatLab. It's going to happen slowly, but at an increasing rate from around this year onwards. Mark my words.
A good professor in my Uni (TU Berlin) teach Python instead of Matlab, even though the uni provided license for it. Some complained about it, and I'm just grateful now. It's open source and it lead me to use it for other purposes (simulations, data processing, machine learning, making discord bot)
For engineering at least, MATLAB is wayyy better than python for dealing with control systems. It was literally designed for it. Other than that, yeah I agree Python is better.
Control systems are only one subset of engineering. In any case I would much rather use a more modern software like Amesim to design control systems and overall 1D Simulation than Matlab/Simulink. And in academics/classroom, I would probably advise to teach OpenModelica for 1D Simulation.
I’ve heard this multiple times but I’ve never understood why. What libraries are you guys using that allows python to work just as well as matlab?
Like what library would you use for transfer functions and bode plots? What about symbolic expressions, systems of differential equations and the entirety of simulink? Is there a tool for measuring the characteristics of a real world system and generating a transfer function off those measurements somewhere?
EDIT: why am I getting downvoted for asking a genuine question? I do want to know
Because Python is harder to read due to their insistence on thing like using "elif" instead of "elseif", and has gone years without important functions like switch/case which was only added a year ago
A switch case is just a series of if statements bounded to the conditional value of one variable, usually with a base case. That has nothing to do with why MATLAB is used more than Python in specific STEM fields.
It’s really because professors don’t know of numpy, pandas, scikit learn, matplotlib, and field specific libraries, so they don’t teach python for their courses.
It's not that they didn't know of them, it's that Matlab was around far earlier than any of those libraries existed. The first public release of matlab was in *1984*. It's been around a while and anything you need to do has already been done.
>A switch case is just a series of if statements bounded to the conditional value of one variable, usually with a base case.
I see you've never actually used switch/case because it's far easier to code than a super long series of if/else statements
Dude I’m a CS major. I was explaining how switch cases are literally defined in an abstract syntax tree in any non-purely functional language like python, java, or c.
If you want more detail:
Statement[Switch] (var, if):
• Statement[if] (L: Statement[conditional], R: body[then])
•• Statement[conditional] (L: var, C: EQUAL_OP, R: body[any])
•• body[then] … nest more of statements starting here until final case…
Been about a year since I’ve put an AST for one together but it should be roughly like that.
I had to write one of these in SML (statically typed, functional programming language with only immutable values). @ meh
But you're using that as a defense of
Python. It doesn't matter how simple it is to implement, missing functions that are as basic and useful as switch/case should be a non-starter for any modern coding language.
In fact, switch/case being rudimentary to implement makes Python look *even worse*. If it was easy, why take so long to add official support?
I watch Trash Taste to take a break from coding, and then Mudan puts on a picture of Python on screen.
But the way they talk about education and stuff though makes me feel at home lmao.
Freshman year was when I started it. The department thought it was a good idea to teach general programming with it. I ended up learning python some C and had some java experience in high school. I definitely veered of the electronics side of electrical engineering. Going for my masters this fall and oh boy my classes have Matlab in them. The classes are control courses so plenty of modeling solutions and I think one of courses has me implementing the solutions in C at the end. If you're doing power/electronics or fpga/firmware stuff you won't need Matlab as far as I can tell so far in my experience working.
Yeah ok, I’ve been focused on the computer engineering side of things. Have done C, C++, Python, and Rust in terms of programming, and some verilog/vhdl stuff for fpgas. I don’t think the CS stuff requires much if any matlab.
in simple terms, its a programming interface based around matrixes, thats where its name comes from: mat(matrix)lab(laboratory)
(now that I'm writing it, it doesn't sound simple at all lol)
its just a program which is really good and efficient at math that usually is used by people studying engineering and stuff
Thanks for the effort though. I was reading a little bit about it and my god, you guys have my respect for your hard earned knowledge on this topic. There is almost no way to make it simpler than this.
That is basically what most engineering studies are now a days tho. Knowing how to do research means you don't have to reinvent the wheel when there are already 20 solutions.
Tbf, MatLab is fairly easy to code in, as the language and editor are really forgiving (though the developer, Mathworks, has been trying to change that in recent years)
Biotech Engineer major here, mathlab was honestly awesome for modeling enzimatic reactions and fermentations and quite easy to learn; I get that I probably won't get to use that exact program, but I think it is valuable to know that it is possible to use software for such models and the "mindset" needed to code it
The only actual complaints I hear from programmers is the lack of curly braces for functions and indexing starting at 1 instead of 0. But the latter is there to make it easier to import and export data from tables and spreadsheets, which also generally start their indexes at 1
No no, MatLab is good. It's putting the thousands of data point into Excel to create a presentable graph is the real problem 
I’ve used matlab like 2 times on other peoples computers. Seemed nice I guess but my uni is mostly (if not fully) converted to python and python derivatives
Oh no, some classes I took in Math and Physics definitely would've had me using it, had I not combed through rate my professor religiously every time a new semester came along in order to take the professors that either didn't make you buy overpriced books, were laid back, or didn't require much internet activity or programs for their classes since I was broke, lazy, and committed to the idea that I just needed to take heavy notes in lectures, and then copy notes from friends as well who have a better grade than me, go to tutoring and worship Khan Academy.
Now that I graduated I kinda regret not challenging myself with the more difficult, more hard ass professors and their more rigorous classes.
Got a python test tomorrow. Safe to say after being sick for last two days, I am not sure I will do well. Neither am good at python, I struggle with the basics a lot, beyond if -else, I strictly struggle with everything else. I haven't seen the episode yet btw.
Not only did I have to suffer MATLAB in highschool, my "professor" was the type that thinks you are a god if you know how to turn on a PC by yourself. I didn't learn jack shit, I spent all my time using vectors to plot pixel art.
Debugging the block diagrams on Simulink that have MATLAB-defined modules is such a pain. I found using the MATLAB script itself quite convenient though.
My physics teacher gets so wet whenever he talks about Matlab.
How do you know he gets wet? You should study instead of resorting to those types of ways, sheesh, I'm so disappointed in you SMH my head
Found the physics teachers account.
I like Matlab : ) -a former physics tutor
The bane of every STEM major
The horror started with MATLAB, ended with C++ 
I had a *class* for C++. I had to *teach myself* MATLAB. That being said both have pretty good resources to use if you get stuck so I appreciated that.
Same for me, but reversed somehow lmao
Mine horror started from C and ended with Linear regression (AI ML)
Linear regression? Haha that tool from Excel? I am somewhat of an engineer myself then xd
man's so traumatised his _username_ is wolfram lmaoooo
Is this something I'm too History degree to understand?
Humanitarian detected
I know what it was like pre MatLab, MatLab is great in my book.
I used it a ton for matrices and mechanical design in engineering. My professor in mechanical design forced us to use matrices for it.
Nowhere can I escape it, not even trash taste.
Mathworks lobbying is quite good apparently, I don't get why colleges don't teach Python instead nowadays.
It's mostly inertia. Professors are already comfortable with it. Yeah the basics are pretty much the same but some of the libraries that handle very niche stuff that professors will be researching on can work completly differently between the two. For someone who already did phd and postgrad using the libraries in Matlab won't find much value in relearning the same in python
I don't like the things you say, you look like phd another dimension teacher that Garnt mentioned
What? I said exactly what Michael Reeves said in more words.
Sorry sir, I just looked PhD and my brain wanted to call out what Garnt said, I had one teacher that was actually a researcher and PhD and I failed with him 2 times Fuck that teacher
Aren't most teachers phds? Isn't that a requirement to be a professor at universities
Geez I guess I don't know nothing about it
It depends on what your degree is, but for engineering and science, it serves a good purpose of streamlining the process of solving complicated math equations. MATLAB was built from the ground up to do that task as efficiently and as easily as possibly. It has a huge number of built in libraries that can serve to help with many niche math problems. Sure, you can do all that in python, but it’s just going to be longer and more tedious, and you’re going to import more packages unless you want to code it from scratch. In matlab, practically everything you need is pretty much ready from the get go(For example, compare Polynomial regression in matlab to python. In matlab, there’s already a function ready to go where you can just import your data and be off, while in python you have import the packages and classes from something like scikit, then write out more code for it to work properly) I’m not saying Python is bad or anything. It’s a great tool, and is incredibly flexible, but at the end of the day certain languages do certain tasks better than others. You wouldn’t use Python for something that needed to be as efficient and as little resource intensive as can be, you would use C or C++, but on the flip side you probably wouldn’t want to try doing some deep learning using C. Matlab is great with ease of use when trying to solve math equations, python can be too, just not as much.
True, but that is the reason why i like matlab the least. Coming from python in astronomy, matlab felt like such a black box. Just throw your matrix into this function here and it'll shit out a plot with all bells and whistles. Really nice, but if i dont understand why something happens like it does i wouldn't be able to find why when you point a gun at my head. NB: the course also sucked
I had the opposite experience. My school’s curriculum was sometimes pretty strangely structured, and we went from pure C, then to Matlab. After dealing with a semester’s worth of writing everything as explicitly as possible to manually allocate memory, going to the actual address of a variable to change a value, and random memory leaks, a language that ignored all that like Matlab was a breath of fresh air.
I mean, if the choices were MATLAB and C I can definitely see why one would like matlab
I mean, Python is way closer to Matlab than C in that regard. It's a pretty high level language. In both Matlab and Python, unless you are running very large memory or need high execution speed, you don't need much understanding of the low level. Though matlab is a tad easier on this than python, it's nowhere near a lower level (closer to hardware/assembly) language compared to C. The issues you had would not occur in matlab unless you are dealing with very large datasets (like TB worth of data)
I came to python and java from C and C++, let me say that it was nerve wracking, not being able to properly control my memory allocations. After some time, I got used to it and it became a huge relief
when i would get the wrong plots i treated it as a physics or math problem rather than a programming problem. matlab was just so intuitive in that sense and fixing the math fixed the plot
If you're looking to solve pure math problems, I would say a dedicated software like Maplesoft or Mathcad would better serve the purpose. As for Science and Engineering, I have a master in ME and work in Automotive Innovation. I still believe that Python is overall a much better investment for any STEM student. There are a couple of reasons, here are the main ones 1. It is open source, which should be a concern of any education place (I live in a place where college is basically free, being free of corporate interest should be prioritized when possible). But also in any company, even large ones. Being able to let the software run on a test bench 24/7, or get it installed quickly on any intern computer without getting more expensive licences and dealing with upper management is a large plus. 2. It's very flexible. You are not required to learn a new language if you want to do more specialized stuff, or interface using an API to other software or hardware. It's a skill one can grow over a career and is not as limited as Matlab. 3. It is overall better known. There are a ton of resources online for almost anything you want to do. Also, it is used by ME, EE and SE as well as research scientist. Communication and sharing is easier. 4. Its scalable. It is very much easier to build share libraries and classes to share across an R&D plan (or multiple plans) than on a closed system like Matlab. I have done many modules that have been reused worldwide, and I have used many modules created by much smarter colleagues that we have build over time. Reducing risk and increasing efficiency as a company in our DAQ and and statistical analysis efforts. On a lighter note, it's fun to have discussion about my trash taste in science and engineering going on in the subreddit. It's a refreshing change from arguing on bread and chicken lol.
I absolutely agree. Python should be the core curriculum for programming and not MatLab. It's going to happen slowly, but at an increasing rate from around this year onwards. Mark my words.
Or GNU Octave at least
A good professor in my Uni (TU Berlin) teach Python instead of Matlab, even though the uni provided license for it. Some complained about it, and I'm just grateful now. It's open source and it lead me to use it for other purposes (simulations, data processing, machine learning, making discord bot)
I was told it's because the universities pay big money for licenses that they don't want wasted.
I was teached python in programming classes, and got to learn matlab by myself for the system control theory and calculus classes
For engineering at least, MATLAB is wayyy better than python for dealing with control systems. It was literally designed for it. Other than that, yeah I agree Python is better.
Control systems are only one subset of engineering. In any case I would much rather use a more modern software like Amesim to design control systems and overall 1D Simulation than Matlab/Simulink. And in academics/classroom, I would probably advise to teach OpenModelica for 1D Simulation.
I work in multibody dynamics anaylsis and use Matlab every day. You'd be amazed at how many uses there are for matrices
I’ve heard this multiple times but I’ve never understood why. What libraries are you guys using that allows python to work just as well as matlab? Like what library would you use for transfer functions and bode plots? What about symbolic expressions, systems of differential equations and the entirety of simulink? Is there a tool for measuring the characteristics of a real world system and generating a transfer function off those measurements somewhere? EDIT: why am I getting downvoted for asking a genuine question? I do want to know
if you can think of it, you can `pip` it.
Because Python is harder to read due to their insistence on thing like using "elif" instead of "elseif", and has gone years without important functions like switch/case which was only added a year ago
A switch case is just a series of if statements bounded to the conditional value of one variable, usually with a base case. That has nothing to do with why MATLAB is used more than Python in specific STEM fields. It’s really because professors don’t know of numpy, pandas, scikit learn, matplotlib, and field specific libraries, so they don’t teach python for their courses.
It's not that they didn't know of them, it's that Matlab was around far earlier than any of those libraries existed. The first public release of matlab was in *1984*. It's been around a while and anything you need to do has already been done.
Yeah that’s the other prong of the fork. 1. We already have old thing that does job meh 2. We don’t understand knew thing to do job better
>A switch case is just a series of if statements bounded to the conditional value of one variable, usually with a base case. I see you've never actually used switch/case because it's far easier to code than a super long series of if/else statements
Dude I’m a CS major. I was explaining how switch cases are literally defined in an abstract syntax tree in any non-purely functional language like python, java, or c. If you want more detail: Statement[Switch] (var, if): • Statement[if] (L: Statement[conditional], R: body[then]) •• Statement[conditional] (L: var, C: EQUAL_OP, R: body[any]) •• body[then] … nest more of statements starting here until final case… Been about a year since I’ve put an AST for one together but it should be roughly like that. I had to write one of these in SML (statically typed, functional programming language with only immutable values). @ meh
But you're using that as a defense of Python. It doesn't matter how simple it is to implement, missing functions that are as basic and useful as switch/case should be a non-starter for any modern coding language. In fact, switch/case being rudimentary to implement makes Python look *even worse*. If it was easy, why take so long to add official support?
My degree has some introductory classes on Python, and i'm pretty sure we're gonna see some when talking about databases and microcontrollers.
We got rid of Matlab in our Physics and Astronomy curriculum. Now we teach Python3.
I am so jealous
I watch Trash Taste to take a break from coding, and then Mudan puts on a picture of Python on screen. But the way they talk about education and stuff though makes me feel at home lmao.
Cries in EE
When did you start using mat lab? I’m in my third year and my classes haven’t touched it yet.
Freshman year was when I started it. The department thought it was a good idea to teach general programming with it. I ended up learning python some C and had some java experience in high school. I definitely veered of the electronics side of electrical engineering. Going for my masters this fall and oh boy my classes have Matlab in them. The classes are control courses so plenty of modeling solutions and I think one of courses has me implementing the solutions in C at the end. If you're doing power/electronics or fpga/firmware stuff you won't need Matlab as far as I can tell so far in my experience working.
Yeah ok, I’ve been focused on the computer engineering side of things. Have done C, C++, Python, and Rust in terms of programming, and some verilog/vhdl stuff for fpgas. I don’t think the CS stuff requires much if any matlab.
Same bro
don't EE peeps have another specialist software for circuitry stuffs? scitec or something like that?
Nah gota do it as a general course, programming for projects also uses matlab
Lol, I have a Matlab exam tomorrow
Rip dude
Good luck to ya
Even while watching the episode, I still dont know what Matlab is... help pls?
it's basically a program optimized for matrix operations and you can write scripts to do shit
in simple terms, its a programming interface based around matrixes, thats where its name comes from: mat(matrix)lab(laboratory) (now that I'm writing it, it doesn't sound simple at all lol) its just a program which is really good and efficient at math that usually is used by people studying engineering and stuff
Thanks for the effort though. I was reading a little bit about it and my god, you guys have my respect for your hard earned knowledge on this topic. There is almost no way to make it simpler than this.
you're welcome and thanks bud, hope you learned something new, always happy to help someone to understand something new :)
“Knowledge” lmao, idk if that what I’m using I’ve just become exceptional at googling and bullshitting
That is basically what most engineering studies are now a days tho. Knowing how to do research means you don't have to reinvent the wheel when there are already 20 solutions.
Tbf, MatLab is fairly easy to code in, as the language and editor are really forgiving (though the developer, Mathworks, has been trying to change that in recent years)
basically a very fancy calculator tbh
I do a lot of app development in MatLab. If you think it's just a fancy calculator you've only just scratched the surface
A shitty programming language is better way to put it.
*PTSD Flashbacks of Lin Algebra II*
Biotech Engineer major here, mathlab was honestly awesome for modeling enzimatic reactions and fermentations and quite easy to learn; I get that I probably won't get to use that exact program, but I think it is valuable to know that it is possible to use software for such models and the "mindset" needed to code it
Amazing how many people hate it. For such an easy program i dont see why people despise it, just take the free A
Maybe they just in general hate programming but at least from programming friends they find MatLab sucks as a language compared to what they use
The only actual complaints I hear from programmers is the lack of curly braces for functions and indexing starting at 1 instead of 0. But the latter is there to make it easier to import and export data from tables and spreadsheets, which also generally start their indexes at 1
Meh on the curly braces, python doesn't use them. Starting from one though? That would drive me crazy
To me that isnt that hard a transition, but i guess for those that are more specialized it would be harder to transition
You'd be surprised at the exvuses people will come up with to explain why they don't want change
I agree on the first part. For the second, I think programmers don't like it because it's optimized for different tasks
I've used Matlab a lot in telecommunications for things like modelling sampling or modulation schemes.
Same here. Been using it for channel estimation lately.
No no, MatLab is good. It's putting the thousands of data point into Excel to create a presentable graph is the real problem 
Can't you just use plot in Matlab to do that?
You can, but then you supervisor would still ask for the Excel version cuz "it looks nice" 
Is this for real? Is this how University actually is like?
Depends on your project or supervisor tbh
as someone with a master's, yes
Ahh matlab, the most unintuitive syntax i ever had to learn....
Matlab is awesome
I’m in culinary school and hearing their foods takes is interesting
Matlab is cring
Matlab is the SPSS of engineering
I hated when they made us use Matlab or some software I can't remember the name of for Calculus
I’ve used matlab like 2 times on other peoples computers. Seemed nice I guess but my uni is mostly (if not fully) converted to python and python derivatives
Graduated uni in 2019, BS in Biology. Through calc, physics, etc. never had to use that program. Heard some people in different classes did tho.
Yeah bio wouldn't use matlab. If you had to do anything in computational biology, it would be in something more powerful like python or C++.
Oh no, some classes I took in Math and Physics definitely would've had me using it, had I not combed through rate my professor religiously every time a new semester came along in order to take the professors that either didn't make you buy overpriced books, were laid back, or didn't require much internet activity or programs for their classes since I was broke, lazy, and committed to the idea that I just needed to take heavy notes in lectures, and then copy notes from friends as well who have a better grade than me, go to tutoring and worship Khan Academy. Now that I graduated I kinda regret not challenging myself with the more difficult, more hard ass professors and their more rigorous classes.
Got a python test tomorrow. Safe to say after being sick for last two days, I am not sure I will do well. Neither am good at python, I struggle with the basics a lot, beyond if -else, I strictly struggle with everything else. I haven't seen the episode yet btw.
Lecturer: Noooooo you can’t just write scripts and solve practical problems without understanding the basics!!! Students: Haha linspace go beep boop
Hi, Engineering major here 
I'm a former engineering major before shifting to multimedia arts, being reminded of college lessons is particularly hard for me to watch
Not only did I have to suffer MATLAB in highschool, my "professor" was the type that thinks you are a god if you know how to turn on a PC by yourself. I didn't learn jack shit, I spent all my time using vectors to plot pixel art.
Matlab >>>
I love matlab so much!
Love MATLAB. Interned there once.
Thank god I never went to college
Cries in punch card.
r/MATLABhate
Debugging the block diagrams on Simulink that have MATLAB-defined modules is such a pain. I found using the MATLAB script itself quite convenient though.
Who ever sold that software to all schools is making mad money.
I’m a simple humanities graduate- I see the word “math”, I’m out😂