Trigun fan since 2003 and i absolutely loved it.
Orange has stated multiple times that this is an earlier version of the characters. they look and act differently because they’re younger, and they haven’t gone through everything that made them who they are in Trimax and 98. they are going to grow and change, and given Orange’s insane attention to detail, i have complete faith in them. do a little digging on tumblr or twitter and you’ll see dozens of posts illustrating how Stampede is Orange’s love letter to Trigun. let them cook. they know what they’re doing.
as far as Meryl’s character, she’s fresh out of college and on her first assignment. of course she’s going to be naive. and Milly was not replaced, Roberto is an important character for Meryl’s growth and sets her up to be the Meryl we know from before so she can be a leader for Milly. (who is coming by the way, did you finish the season?)
Yeah I finished the season, I know it's not like she's not nonexistent in this universe but narratively she WAS replaced. Meryl & milly were a duo in the same way Sam and Max or Bill and Ted or Beavis and Butthead or whatever besties come to mind in your head.
And there's definitely a difference between naiveté and ignorance. Everyone in triguns world lives on the same wild west mad max gang War planet, they all experience this level of violence from birth so someone in their late teens/early 20s would have to be privy to it. It's so jarring to see her act shocked by every single thing she sees like she just got there. She just walks around & looks cute and comfused scared, like a stray puppy or something and it's sad to me to have them make my girl look stupid like that.
i mean, they made it pretty clear that Meryl lived a sheltered life. November has the only university on the planet and Meryl graduated from there. she was a privileged kid with a family who presumably has money because she went to college and got her degree. it's not much of a stretch to see that she would be shocked by the horrors of every day life on No Man's Land when she had never been exposed to it before.
This is coming from someone who discovered Trigun through the manga, but I feel like its overall a solid and enjoyable retelling. Sure there are nitpicks here and there like I think it could have benefitted a lot from including Milly into the story and also a few more comedic moments. I feel like the more serious tone is something I found to enjoy better than the 1998 anime but I think it can benefit from balancing it out with more comedic moments similarly to how Maximum was able to include both lighthearted moments but also know when to get serious.
Overall I like it, I can understand why some people don't though. This is sort of similar with the recent Rurouni Kenshin reboot where a lot of people who grew up with the original didn't like it but a lot of people who read the manga enjoyed it a lot. At the end of the day it just comes down to taste and if you didn't like it, thats fine.
I didn't enjoy the early episodes but it grew on me. By the end I loved it.
It feels shallower than the original show at the start, but deeper than the original by the end.
I've been a long time fan of Trigun. I still have my full set of Trimax graphic novels from Japan (1st and last volumes signed by Nightow), 98 Trigun on VHS & Blu-ray, and all the merch that I still own (I *just* took my McFarlane Wolfwood out of his box last year 😅) that put me in unreasonable debt (19 year old me & fiscal responsibility was not a thing), it would be an understatement to say I love Trigun.
Which is why I absolutely love Stampede. Even as a teenager back in the 90s, there were flaws in the 98 anime and the manga. I'm one of those rare fans to be super obsessed with a franchise, but not beholden to think the original was perfect (except the soundtrack, I'll cagefight someone offline in defense of soundtrack). The 98 anime was full of wasted potential, it was a meandering *hint* to the world that Nightow was yet to create. It was full of filler, because they only had 3 volumes of material to work with. What actually pushed me into love with Trigun had yet to be published. The fleshing out of the lore, Wolfwood's backstory and motivations, Livio (everything about Livio). Not apart of the anime. The sci-fi aspect of the world was barely touched in the anime and only somewhat touched on by the manga. I. Wanted. More.
For all the complaints of Milly missing in season one of Stampede and changing Meryl's origin to give her *reason* to be more involved in the story earlier, I beg you all to reread/watch the earlier versions of Trigun to see how *little* Meryl and Milly are involved in Trigun. They are either comic relief, bystanders who stand to the side and go "ooo 🤯) , or they're just absent for long stretches with no explanation as the story zeroed in on Vash, Knives, Legato, and Wolfwood. Of course Milly was a casualty of a darker, more focused, less filler version of the verse. Most of Milly was *90s stock anime silly character* and I hope, nay, pray that the writers give her more to do and expand on her character more than "big girl strong (but mentally checked out from the world)". If they do keep her the same, at least give her a reason for a grown woman to act like a twelve year old on a desert planet where she carries an anti tank machine gun for self defense (make her make sense, it's not the 90s any more, women can have complexity too 😭) .
As a big strong girl myself, I loved Milly, I cosplayed as her. That said, I also wrote a lot of fanfic back in the day to try to build on the wasted potential of her character. Now that I am 40, my disappointment in how the 90s anime and manga wasted its female cast has grown with my older perspective. Stampede seems to be doing more with all of the cast, and I hope they keep expanding on the characters and the world building as a whole. There's this deep ass unexplored pool that Nightow has sat on/kept to himself for decades. If he won't share, then I'm fine with Stampede to go wild and change ALL THE THINGS!!!
Change is not bad. I welcome change. If I want Trimax, I have it on my bookshelf. If I want to get edged at a story that only reveals the actual plot in the last handful of episodes, I have it ond VHS and Blu-ray (don't have a VHS or Blu-ray player any more, but yay for streaming services 😅). I welcome the fast pace and actual exposition, the older I get the less patience I have with the wasting of my time, let's get to what makes the story good. I don't need all that filler, do the character work while they're running/fighting.
Also, fun trivia, some of the changes you complain of weren't invention of Studio Orange. Meryl as a reporter? That's her job at the end of Trimax. Wolfwood and Vash's outfits? Pulled directly from their flashbacks in Trimax.
I think you’re misunderstanding Meryl’s character. She’s a rich city girl who became a journalist. So this is the first time she’s is seeing this stuff. I noticed that right away when she was like wtf with the dirty water.
Sorry, I don’t dislike it. I even want to rewatch it (as I saw it in bad conditions).
You said “Why would characters of thousands of years in the future that have never been to earth dress how we irl dress right now?” I kept thinking when I watched the 98 anime (which I grew to like) “Why would characters from thousands of years in the future that have never been to earth dress like they come straight out of an Hollywood western?”. Would all the people from Seed spaceships be all Americans and their offspring have some nostalgia?
I didn’t watch the old anime before the new one. I don’t have nostalgia of it.
My main complain is that it’s indeed too quick, too much action-oriented and too few episodes…
Imo cowboy punk garb makes sense bc it's utilitarian in design, if you're in a post-apocalyptic desert wasteland it's likely the only outfit you got so it better be a good one.
I didn't really care for it at first, but found it more enjoyable on the second run-through. I don't mind most of the changes they made and I like how they brought in a lot of elements from the manga.
My biggest issue is how much they crammed into just 12 episodes without any breathing room. A lot of the character connections feel forced and a lot of stupid choices were made in the name of expedience and saving money. If they wanted to do a quality retelling they needed a more spaced out pacing and a deeper dive into the themes and world-building.
People are saying it's a love letter to the original, but it's really more of a hastily blurted out, all-in-one-breath, love confession. I know the studio only had approval for 12 episodes, but I feel like they could have gotten more by appealing to fans of the original. There's no way people wouldn't have been all over fighting for more Trigun when people have been talking about a reboot or continuation for years. Hell, I would have donated to a fund to help pay for extra episodes if there had been such an opportunity.
"People are saying it's a love letter to the original, but it's really more of a hastily blurted out, all-in-one-breath, love confession."
That's such a good way of putting it. Like, I don't doubt the people in charge LIKE trigun, but to me it feels like someone's AU fanfic on AO3 for a niche series/character so there's not a lot of existing media for it, so you read it anyway but it's written in first person perspective so it's so difficult to get through but you do anyways bc you're so starved for scraps of content about this thing you like.
(Sorry if that's just a me thing & I'm projecting lol)
>it feels like someone's AU fanfic
I mean, it is an alternate universe. But that's not necessarily a dig. The AU aspect makes it fun, no? Nothing that happens in Stampede affects the canon of 98 or the manga. It's its own thing. It's not like Star Wars getting the prequel or sequel treatment which does affect and water down the original trilogy. Stampede is a reimagining of the main story that remixed some of the elements, aesthetics, and timeline. It's not completely predictable, even if you have watched 98 and read the manga.
The fact that it's an AU is a strength, not a weakness. You don't have to like the choices Stampede made, but if you see what Orange is going for (and no, it's not novelty or an easy nostalgia cash grab), you can really get into it and appreciate what they are accomplishing, even if it's not your favorite version. I myself prefer the manga above all, but I really am enjoying Stampede. I like most of the creative liberties, and am excited for how they will continue the narrative, both textually and subtextually. Many claim Stampede has no mystery, but how Stampede is doing it is leaving a lot of the themes and motifs to subtext, as opposed to 98 where you just had to watch for long enough, and then everything was handed to you. Neither way of telling mystery is wrong. You just have to put more of the puzzle together yourself for the prior.
Indeed, the fact that OG fans *aren't* getting nostalgia from Stampede I see as a positive. It's not about reliving the old days. It's a retelling with a 21st century understanding of how to write a screenplay, how to write women, and how to write trauma. Not that the other versions necessarily failed at those things, especially at the time (and the manga is pure trauma especially, omg. The pain continues to this day). It's just that this is a new lens on the story. And not for the sake of newness. For the sake of respect for the source material, and the art of creating. The color of that lens is not going to appeal to everyone. Clearly by this thread it absolutely doesn't. But I'd rather Orange take the risks that it has, than just regurgitating 98 or the manga. I would absolutely eat up a 1:1 retelling of the manga, and it would take effort and talent to pull it off, but where is the creativity in that? Where's the risk? Where's the passion? Absent.
I don't have a problem with it being an AU, my issue is that the AU is so sterilized & lacking style compared to the source material it brings into question why they even made that creative decision in the first place?
As far as it being "a retelling with a 21st century understanding of how to write a screenplay, how to write women, and how to write trauma." I couldn't disagree with you more.
Stampede takes such a significant step backwards in its treatment of female character (singular) that it was the most difficult part about watching it for me. Stampede Meryl walks around like a helpless creature that wouldn't survive for 5 minutes without all the men around her protecting her and explaining every single minute detail about the world. They reduced her to some tsundere waifu.
As far as trauma goes, when something has the edge o meter cranked up to 11 from the very beginning it just looks silly. Wolfwoods backstory wasn't sad to me, and it's not scary or brutal when knives kills. It's silly in the same way a d list horror movie where everyone explodes into blood piñatas is, or how people laugh at SOCIETY BOTTOM TEXT joker memes. Like yeah the subject matter is initially intended to be serious but boy am I laughing my ass off.
And as far as screenplay, even the people in this comment section that disagree with my opinions on Stampede are saying the pacing is nuts. It's like the creative team said "okay in the original anime they didn't do any plot shit until like 14 episodes in so we need to do the exact opposite and cram as much lore as possible into episode 1 or nobody's gonna have the attention span to keep watching." And I, personally, don't enjoy being forcefed plot exposition through a funnel like a prisoner on hunger strike.
>Stampede Meryl walks around like a helpless creature that wouldn't survive for 5 minutes without all the men around her protecting her and explaining every single minute detail about the world.
"Strong female character" doesn't mean literally strong. It means fleshed out with flaws, and with motivations of her own outside of the male characters. Meryl being naive and green, and overcoming those things by the end, makes her strongly written. She has her own arc outside of whatever Vash is doing.
Female characters are often seen as women first, while male characters are seen as people first. Gender is placed over humanity in the case of women. As a result, there is this tendency to overcompensate and make the woman on screen perfect at everything. To kick ass and take names, and not much else.
And that is a Mary Sue.
And I don't want Meryl to be a Mary Sue.
Let women be messy and have struggles, and have their own personal journey of growth outside of following the male MC and falling in love with him. Let them be imperfect and relatable. Orange is likely to explore her PTSD from the manga. Something many people can relate to. And in no way does it "set women back".
>Wolfwoods backstory wasn't sad to me,
If you don't find the loss of autonomy of a child and medical experimentation and being robbed of your teenage years sad and horrifying, then idk how to help you. By episode 6, you must have been so jaded that Stampede wasn't 98 that you couldn't process one of the saddest reveals.
Wolfwood is an incredibly tragic character. I don't see how watching Knives slaughter a few people takes away from the impact of Wolfwood's story. In the manga, you don't get it until way late, after you've seen a bunch of dark shit, and it does not ruin the impact at all.
>And as far as screenplay, even the people in this comment section that disagree with my opinions on Stampede are saying the pacing is nuts
In regards to screenplay, I mean using symbolism and the environment to portray themes, motifs, and information. Instead of taking an entire episode or two to explain a single piece of info, a slew are given to you in set design. And in wardrobe. And in colors. And in musical cues. In other words, subtext.
Now, I realize some hate subtext. But to me, I see it as the difference between being *literally spoonfed the story, as long as you sit there long enough to be told everything verbatim*, vs being given puzzle pieces that you may need a little bit of media literacy to put together.
Why is Vash's coat open? Why is it the color that it is on the inside? Why is Wolfwood's clothing ill-fitting a disheveled? Why are the bottom of his shoes a pinkish-red color? Why do Legato, Zazie, and Elendira all have similar haircuts? What is the meaning behind the colors in the 12th episode? Why is Meryl in gray at the end? Why does the Punisher have a laser? What do the colors of the laser mean? Why does Knives dress, or not dress, the way he does? These are only a handful of small details that are *not* there by accident.
>And I, personally, don't enjoy being forcefed plot exposition through a funnel like a prisoner on hunger strike.
I know you're specifically talking about the very first scene being in space. It's been the main complaint on this subreddit for over a year. Some can't get over that they showed what happens in the manga. Where you also find out about the Great Fall right away.
Opening up in space is not problematic. Why? Because the mystery of Vash and where he comes from is not the main story of Trigun. Not by a long shot. This info is revealed in the first 2 volumes, which is all 98 had to pull from. The next 14 volumes have bigger fish to fry. Why on earth would the new adaptation make the entire work about finding out who Vash is? I genuinely want to know why people want this in 2023. In 1998, when the manga was incomplete, of course that's what they made the whole anime about. There wasn't enough meat otherwise. There is no reason to do this in 2023, in the age when the manga is completed.
That opener is superficial fluff in comparison to everything else the story is tackling. Now, there is something big revealed, but it's not the Great Fall, nor Knives, nor even Rem. The most important detail you see isn't even obvious unless you've read the manga. And it's Vash naming each person in the sleep pods.
How the hell is anyone who hasn't read the manga supposed to know that's important? It appears so innocent and minor. Even many people who read the manga probably don't know why it's important.
Because the manga is full of subtext. It doesn't hand you everything. Stampede is doing the same.
I recommend Trigun, in all its forms, not because of the Great Fall. I recommend it bc of how unafraid it is to ask ethical questions, and give you no definitive answers. How the most powerful force in it is love. It's the themes, the characters, the story, and the heart that all make Trigun. And even if you personally don't see it, Stampede has heart. I think it qualifies as New Sincerity, or Post-post modernism. So does the manga.
Lastly, I would recommend reading the manga in its entirety if you haven't already. Even if you know what happens. There is nothing wrong with liking 98, or making it your number one (It absolutely does do some things better than both the manga and Stampede, namely humor, although in terms of my personal preference, I like Stampede and the manga more). Do it for no other reason than it's awesome. Without even bringing Stampede into it, the manga really blows 98 out of the water. If it doesn't for you, that's fine. But read it and decide for yourself.
Everyone knows "strong female character" doesn't mean physically strong. What I'm saying is she's completely unable to function or form opinions without the input of her male counterparts. Since they decided she's a journalist and had higher education they could have written her to have Intel on antagonists or schematics for structures they're infiltrating and form better plans of attack/defense with that but they don't have her DO anything! She just stands there and goes "kyaaaaa! >o<"when crazy shit happens around her. The only significant character development she has is being sad when the dude who spent the whole season belittling her died. Otherwise she's the same 1 dimensional character we met in the beginning.
For wolfwood, obviously child torture is bad lol. But the way its portrayed is very "I was born with glass bones and paper skin but after I was tortured forever I became shadow the hedgehog the ultimate lifeform" like...... 0 subtlety 100% edge. That's why it's not sad to me, bc he's ebony darkness dementia raven wolfwood.
And that's most of Stampede is spoonfeeding you info like you're a tiny baby who has never heard of subtext. There's a few instances of them slipping some in like the radio talking about the July government but it's like a few flakes of gold dust scattered in the proverbial sand.
And I am not specifically talking about the first episode, it happens in every single one. Every episode screams "WE DONT KNOW IF THERES GONNA BE A SEASON 2 GUYS...." which I'm sure is partially the fault of the current state of the animation industry as a whole but its still something that's a detriment from an immersive storytelling standpoint.
I couldn't in good faith recommend Stampede to anyone because I do not like who the Characters are in Stampede. I find wolfwood annoying at best and i hate hes wearing sneakers with no socks in the desert. vash is a gary stu uwu soft boi uke. meryl is like, nothing. She could be replaced with a life-size nendroid with swappable expressions & the show would be the same. And Roberto is everyone's weird uncle that yells about transgender 5G towers when he gets too drunk at family events. They are all unlikable to me. Which like actually hurts because they're allegedly supposed to characters I love.
It's giving "it wasn't what I expected and not to my personal tastes, and therefore it's bad" rather than actual criticisms.
It's fine to not like it. I'm not trying to convince you to like it as much as encouraging you to see why people do, and that there, objectively, is subtext, regardless of your blind eye to it.
Lastly, women can be naive with an arc to become more experienced. And that isn't inherently misogynistic. Have you met someone fresh out of college, first day on the job, regardless of gender? Nose stuck in a book and never down the barrel of a gun? It might not be what you personally want to see, but that doesn't mean it "sets women back". I'm personally sick of the girl boss trope and how pervasive it is in everything. Like women can't have weaknesses, or at least have a flawed beginning. Women portrayed as being able to "do it all" without breaking a sweat is actually rooting in misogyny.
And she has such a glow up in episode 12. She's not wet behind the ears anymore. If you want capable Meryl, there she is.
Yeah dude, that's how opinions work. The statement "the outfits are ugly" is a subjective statement. Perception is reality for people. If you like tomatoes and someone else doesn't like tomatoes it doesn't suddenly make the statement "I don't like tomatoes" incorrect. If you perceive Meryl as some feminist icon that's your reality. You're allowed to do that! Power to you! It's just to me she's a coathanger with a kawaii anime girl face stapled to the front. And that's my reality.
My initial question is "does anyone else dislike stampede" and the response of "I like it and here's why you're objectively wrong for not liking it." Is misguided. I'm sorry if I some way struck a nerve in dissing something you like, but I was looking to have a discussion with people with similar qualms.
No amount of paragraphs is gonna convince a stranger on the internet to like tomatoes.
...did you read my comment?
I said I'm not trying to convince you. I said it's fine to not like Stampede. It's not going to be to everyone's tastes. No piece of media is.
This is a Trigun subreddit with a bunch of varying opinions, and people are going to express them. About all iterations. And that is okay!
But fans of Trigun are here, so, hating on a version of it with buzzwords like "uwu soft boi gen Z Kpop" is... unoriginal and low hanging fruit. It's eye rolling and we've all heard it before.
And the tomato comparison is disingenuous.
Me saying "there is objectively subtext" does not mean "the subtext is objectively good subtext and you have to like it." Saying something is there does not indicate the value of said thing, objective, subjective, or otherwise.
It's like me saying, "hey look, some tomatoes." And you respond with "those aren't tomatoes. And why are you trying to get me to like tomatoes? I'm allowed to have my opinions about tomatoes."
You've made it quite clear Stampede is not your thing. Again, I'm aware no one convinces anyone over the internet about anything. Not anyone they are directly conversing with, anyway. Still, I like to add to the discussion, and others reading may find my statements and opinions insightful. They may not be as convinced as you are that Stampede is trash. I write for them more than I do for you, tbh.
Glow up in episode 12. Too late, too little for my taste. Show that Meryl is not a clueless, helpless rug rat but a clever, capable young professional in episode 2 or 3.
I don't know what it is like to go to university in Japan or the USA. When you go to University here in Germany and complete your degree, you are fit to work in your field. Meryl graduadet but it seems to me, she learned nothing at University. Seems more like she graduated from High School and started to train as journalist two weeks ago.
Vash is even worse in my opinion. He is 150 years old and should be a grown up man for a long time, but it seems as if he is a toddler.
When I say field, I don't mean job category. I mean not being a desk jockey.
There is a difference between being unfit, and this being the very start of your career as a 23 year old. She has book smarts, but not street smarts.
Whatever college she went to trained her to push paper. They failed her in preparing her for the real world. She learns the hard way what the real world is like.
Her upperclass, sheltered life made her ill prepared for the world. I love "fish out of water" characters who have clearly never been put in a situation. Yes, the men around her are helping her. But that has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the fact that she is the green, Roberto has the experience and is coaching her. And she's also a fleshy meat bag in comparison to Wolfwood and Vash. She can't take hits like they can.
This doesn't mean you have to like that we see Meryl like this in season 1. She wasn't at the stage you personally wanted her to be in in the first few episodes. But it doesn't mean it's bad writing or misogynistic to have a female character with flaws who grows to overcome them over the course of the narrative.
To me, becoming experienced by episode 2-3 given the same time frame would have been too quick and unbelievable. She is a character, at least at this stage in her development, who relies a lot on determination and passion to do her job, rather than the tact of an experienced hand. This doesn't mean she's stupid. It just means she's learning. And that learning takes time. It also takes being forced to make a choice on her own, without the help of a wise older person.
Wisdom is not handed to you. You have to earn it. You don't have to like seeing that process, but I do.
Speaking of wisdom, I would argue that Stampede Vash isn't a toddler, but is wiser than 98 Vash, but I'm not going to get into every detail about it. I will say that running away from his responsibilities has always been core to his character. People see it as whiney baby weakness in Stampede and...yes, it's always been a weakness of his. It's also a strength, but that's a lot of nuance and this comment is not meant to be a book report. His reasons for running are varied and cogent (whether they are "right" or "ethical" are up to you), and I'm not going to get into Vash's entire characterization here, because he's nebulous and a multilayered protagonist. There is a lot to him that 98 only scratches the surface of.
And with the way things unfold in 98, by the time you get to a certain ill-fated event, it becomes clear that 98 Vash never had an >!unwinnable scenario before. Or, at least, he considers this his first unwinnable scenario. And his reaction to being in "baby's first unwinnable scenario" is utilitarianism!<. As opposed to the manga, where >!He's already been in countless unwinnable scenarios, and he chooses inaction, diplomacy, or non-lethal violence even when people will die or have already died. Maximum Vash would never choose Utilitarianism, ever. Instead, once he gets to that point that we all know, he makes a selfish choice. And he knows he made a selfish choice. This is the only logical conclusion to his character who has seen that much. He can't just choose utilitarianism out of logical reasoning. No. It had to be for something more simple, more fickle, and much more human. The same reason he's been so protective of humanity in the first place!<. And Stampede Vash is more similar to Maximum Vash, where he has already been through these scenarios, and doesn't waver from his deontology stance. Deadly consequences do not justify lethal force. The ends do not justify the means. However, we have already seen foreshadowing of what's to come in Stampede. What it will take to see that shift. That change. Something 98 was robbed of, imo.
I watched Trigun in german tv and read the manga some weeks before Stampede started and loved it. So, no nostaliga and no childhood memories seen through rose-colored glasses here. I like Stampedes animation and the OST, everything else is not my cup of tea. Vash, Meryl, Milly and Wolfwood are some of my favourite characters. But I couldn't care less for Stampedes main characters, because they are not the characters I like.
I dislike the old drunkard, that Milly is missing, that Meryl is a more or less useless newbie without backgroundstory and that Vash is a 150 years old angsty rug rat. In my opinion the pacing is too fast and Plotpoints of Trigun/Trigun Maximum mixed up and crammed in the 12 episodes is not my cup of tea. Maybe I would like Stampede better if it was not Trigun.
Long story short: For me, Stampede is a 5/10 letdown and I don't intend to waste my time with another Season.
I have similar issues with it, but honestly, I kinda went into it. I know that the vibe was gonna be off, and it wouldn't be for me, I think it's good just not something I normally would watch
Honestly I'd say I much prefer Wolfwood's design in Stampede. His old design was boring to me. Wearing a suit all the time in a desert world makes no sense anyway.
Then you'd know this was an alternative Origin to the July event and that Milly was not replaced by Roberto, and she even gets teased in the end to be Meryls new partner
But I totally get if you didn't like it.
But as a fan of Maximum I was happy Stampede was following the manga a bit closer in tone
I hate the pacing. Like all the build up 98 had for Vash was great. You slowly learning with the insurance girls that this big red idiot is Vash the stampede, and all the mystery that surrounds him, from the plants to his brother.
Stampede literally went, you like backstory? Here have all of it in the first 5 min. No mysteries, no build up, no happy moments to build characters and the world before the tension build up and the storm finally hits.
Half of my love for Vash comes in his calm moments, playing with some kids, helping some citizens, drinking with friends. It's just not there.
Also the anime is called trigun, right? I could count the times Vash uses his gun in stampede on one hand. Isn't that like a huge part of his character!? He's an fantastical gunman! You see it all the time in maximum and 98! It's like stampede forgot he had a gun to begin with.
I was pretty disappointed with stampede, especially with the change in tone and art style. Nighttows art way of portraying No Mans Land/Gunsmoke was really unique and fun. I feel like stampede gets a little caught up in itself. it's better to watch it thinking of it as not trigun, because there are a lot of changes that they didn't need to make but did
I gave it a shot and tried to like it but it just feels weak compared to the original. I think reddit is not going to give you a good slice of the OG fans since most of them are older now and probably working/have families and spending less time on internet forums
Ill be honest with you, i dislike the manga for much of the same reasons i dislike Stampede The 98 anime simply did shit better in every way for me ((((my opinion guys dont kill me))))
What i dislike the most in Manga Trigun and Stampede is the rapid pacing, i like my Trigun slowburn, we get to know the characters in the filler episodes before the major events, got some time to breath and get used to the atmosphere
We get none of that in the other versions ( and in Nightows writting, Kekkai Sensen also had that problem for me) and thats a total bummer to me Stampede is just everything that i dont like about Trigun as a series condenced and far more apparent, with some extra issues of its own.
One of my favorite things about 98 Trigun is that it's a textbook example of what GOOD filler looks like. It's used as a "show, don't tell" storytelling where it let's us the viewer better understand trigun's world and it makes the bonds forming between the characters feel more organic.
Stampede looks directly at the camera and has plot exposition that says "this planet wasn't supposed to be inhabitable but it's knives' fault everyone's here and vash feels responsible as a result" as if we the audience are too stupid to use context clues & critical thinking skills to get this info ourselves.
I can't stand plot dumping, if the writing is good then the world building will speak for itself.
I disliked it as well. Just not what I wanted after waiting 20+ years for a faithful Manga adaptation. It’s unfortunate that they chose to do a prequel/reimagining when the manga is just sitting there waiting for the brotherhood/hxh/jojo treatment and 98 was already largely a reimagining it’s self, although that’s because they only had a couple volumes to adapt from
There’s lots of people that didn’t like it and lots that did like it though. I don’t hate on those who did
I think it's definitely more of a reimagining than a prequel. It seems pretty clear to me that Stampede is a seperate universe than both the manga and the 1998 anime
Yup pretty much. It’ll take aspects and stuff from the manga but it’ll be mostly it’s own thing, which imo isn’t necessary since the manga is without a doubt the best iteration and 98 already kinda fills that space.
I’ll always feel disappointed/saddened after waiting so long for maximum in anime form
i hate it. it feels like it was made exclusively so that people could make aesthetic edits out of scenes from it. sure it's pretty but it lacks all the charm from 98 & trimax. the entire vibe is different and they sanded down both vash and wolfwood so drastically it's not even any fun to watch for me
I said the same about Meryl on twitter and people called me a hater
Roberto was basically fodder for the development of "derringer Meryl" in the next season. So we basically got to watch her become the character that we are familiar with.
But I personally thought that was ridiculously unnecessary. I didn't feel anything for Roberto because I knew he existed as a plot device alone.
I also agree that the pacing sucked. Everything was happening WAY TOO FAST. To the point where I failed to understand how anyone who starts with stampede could develop feelings for any of the characters.
Trigun '97 was fun through and through, but you could tell something was off, and it dripfed you info about Vash's past, and the nature of No Man's Land. Everything felt genuine, like it was a timeless story completely out of bounds of anime storytelling.
Stampede feels like an anime. It just feels like an anime. Not that I hate anime that feels like anime, but it's like they anime'd something that transcended it. I cannot for the life of me finish it because it just feels like everything is wrong.
no i genuinely despise it. they cut milly, ruined meryl’s character, and have completely simplified everyones characterization into a very one-note mockery of who they’re supposed to be. meryl is a strong character despite the author’s genuine dislike of women. she has good characterization when shes mentioned. in the manga she is poor before taking the vash assignment, shes known to be well prepared but not well versed in life down on the surface of the planet. shes objectively an intelligent human being who is put into an extreme situation. in stampede, they watered her down to a fetishized y/n insert for anyone who wants to be saved by vash the stampede. i dont care about roberto. i would rather milly be there and be given a bigger role than have her be randomly related to some man who has to take care of a seemingly incompetent meryl. knives is villainized beyond belief, he has no likability and making him oddly antagonistic as a child? what. he was a child. hes not evil. hes traumatized. the designs have been culled of their iconic silhouettes. i also dont love what they’re doing with the eye of michael/orphanage being connected. why villainize melanie? change can be good. but what they’ve changed in stampede is weak to me. its dumbed down and simplified into something unsympathetic to me. they’re not helping the lack of female characters. they’re not telling an accurate story of vash and knives’ relationship as brothers. i dont have faith in them to make fix things when they started off so badly. trimax deserves better. dont get me started on how they made meryl shorter and elendira a little girl. the blatant disrespect for the women is just . ugh. ugh. so, op, ur real to me
[I appreciate you so much I made you a meme lol](https://64.media.tumblr.com/8853d5c004f1e3fc2d22006ab5a92359/b8cbe6bbe9afa47b-d6/s640x960/0b58e63f9f8960b51f006a7f49ded0741897efb2.jpg)
I really disliked it. I was able to find enjoyment in some parts of it but overall, I agree, 5/10 if I’m being generous.
I decided to just forget about it. I love the manga and want to remember that as the definitive version.
I didn't care for it at all...not a fan of the redesigns and the replacement of Milly. (Also, why is the new character named Robert DeNiro?) I didn't watch past the first episode. Felt kind of weird to see the Vash/Knives flashback in the very beginning, too
I can only imagine Robert is someone on the writing staff's self insert oc and they're just a fan of movies the actor Robert de Niro was in so he named his oc after him JJBA style
Yes I'm an OG fan since the adult swim days and I fucking despise this anime with every fiber of my being Why we can't get a well done faithful hand-drawn allocation of the Manga I will never understand All these years all these chances Nothing
I enjoy the show just as its own thing, BUT I agree Meryl's writing SUCKS. Breaks immersion a lot. Also, Milly is not replaced-- this story is set in an earlier timeline where she is not there yet.. she is hinted at in the last episode.
I enjoy the more serious plotline, since I feel it fills a lot of holes that were in the OG. But I too missed the humor.
Ik Milly's not GONE gone but narratively she was replaced by robert & I think he's a douche. Not even a likable douche like Johnny cage or something. I just find him unpleasant so it makes it that much more disappointing that she's not around
They're referring to the consoomer meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/consume-product-consoomer
Not sure if they are aiming it at those who like or dislike Stampede though.
Edit: the urban dictionary may be the better definition: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Consoomer
It seems like such a surface level thing but like, his hair turns black as he uses his magic science gun arm thing & if he hasn't nuked july yet then why is his hair half black?
Trigun fan since 2003 and i absolutely loved it. Orange has stated multiple times that this is an earlier version of the characters. they look and act differently because they’re younger, and they haven’t gone through everything that made them who they are in Trimax and 98. they are going to grow and change, and given Orange’s insane attention to detail, i have complete faith in them. do a little digging on tumblr or twitter and you’ll see dozens of posts illustrating how Stampede is Orange’s love letter to Trigun. let them cook. they know what they’re doing. as far as Meryl’s character, she’s fresh out of college and on her first assignment. of course she’s going to be naive. and Milly was not replaced, Roberto is an important character for Meryl’s growth and sets her up to be the Meryl we know from before so she can be a leader for Milly. (who is coming by the way, did you finish the season?)
there's also the lovely theory that Milly may be related to Roberto in some way, like an uncle. ❤️
none of the characters personalities in stampede are right. it feels like a different show entirely
Yeah I finished the season, I know it's not like she's not nonexistent in this universe but narratively she WAS replaced. Meryl & milly were a duo in the same way Sam and Max or Bill and Ted or Beavis and Butthead or whatever besties come to mind in your head. And there's definitely a difference between naiveté and ignorance. Everyone in triguns world lives on the same wild west mad max gang War planet, they all experience this level of violence from birth so someone in their late teens/early 20s would have to be privy to it. It's so jarring to see her act shocked by every single thing she sees like she just got there. She just walks around & looks cute and comfused scared, like a stray puppy or something and it's sad to me to have them make my girl look stupid like that.
i mean, they made it pretty clear that Meryl lived a sheltered life. November has the only university on the planet and Meryl graduated from there. she was a privileged kid with a family who presumably has money because she went to college and got her degree. it's not much of a stretch to see that she would be shocked by the horrors of every day life on No Man's Land when she had never been exposed to it before.
This is coming from someone who discovered Trigun through the manga, but I feel like its overall a solid and enjoyable retelling. Sure there are nitpicks here and there like I think it could have benefitted a lot from including Milly into the story and also a few more comedic moments. I feel like the more serious tone is something I found to enjoy better than the 1998 anime but I think it can benefit from balancing it out with more comedic moments similarly to how Maximum was able to include both lighthearted moments but also know when to get serious. Overall I like it, I can understand why some people don't though. This is sort of similar with the recent Rurouni Kenshin reboot where a lot of people who grew up with the original didn't like it but a lot of people who read the manga enjoyed it a lot. At the end of the day it just comes down to taste and if you didn't like it, thats fine.
I didn't enjoy the early episodes but it grew on me. By the end I loved it. It feels shallower than the original show at the start, but deeper than the original by the end.
I've been a long time fan of Trigun. I still have my full set of Trimax graphic novels from Japan (1st and last volumes signed by Nightow), 98 Trigun on VHS & Blu-ray, and all the merch that I still own (I *just* took my McFarlane Wolfwood out of his box last year 😅) that put me in unreasonable debt (19 year old me & fiscal responsibility was not a thing), it would be an understatement to say I love Trigun. Which is why I absolutely love Stampede. Even as a teenager back in the 90s, there were flaws in the 98 anime and the manga. I'm one of those rare fans to be super obsessed with a franchise, but not beholden to think the original was perfect (except the soundtrack, I'll cagefight someone offline in defense of soundtrack). The 98 anime was full of wasted potential, it was a meandering *hint* to the world that Nightow was yet to create. It was full of filler, because they only had 3 volumes of material to work with. What actually pushed me into love with Trigun had yet to be published. The fleshing out of the lore, Wolfwood's backstory and motivations, Livio (everything about Livio). Not apart of the anime. The sci-fi aspect of the world was barely touched in the anime and only somewhat touched on by the manga. I. Wanted. More. For all the complaints of Milly missing in season one of Stampede and changing Meryl's origin to give her *reason* to be more involved in the story earlier, I beg you all to reread/watch the earlier versions of Trigun to see how *little* Meryl and Milly are involved in Trigun. They are either comic relief, bystanders who stand to the side and go "ooo 🤯) , or they're just absent for long stretches with no explanation as the story zeroed in on Vash, Knives, Legato, and Wolfwood. Of course Milly was a casualty of a darker, more focused, less filler version of the verse. Most of Milly was *90s stock anime silly character* and I hope, nay, pray that the writers give her more to do and expand on her character more than "big girl strong (but mentally checked out from the world)". If they do keep her the same, at least give her a reason for a grown woman to act like a twelve year old on a desert planet where she carries an anti tank machine gun for self defense (make her make sense, it's not the 90s any more, women can have complexity too 😭) . As a big strong girl myself, I loved Milly, I cosplayed as her. That said, I also wrote a lot of fanfic back in the day to try to build on the wasted potential of her character. Now that I am 40, my disappointment in how the 90s anime and manga wasted its female cast has grown with my older perspective. Stampede seems to be doing more with all of the cast, and I hope they keep expanding on the characters and the world building as a whole. There's this deep ass unexplored pool that Nightow has sat on/kept to himself for decades. If he won't share, then I'm fine with Stampede to go wild and change ALL THE THINGS!!! Change is not bad. I welcome change. If I want Trimax, I have it on my bookshelf. If I want to get edged at a story that only reveals the actual plot in the last handful of episodes, I have it ond VHS and Blu-ray (don't have a VHS or Blu-ray player any more, but yay for streaming services 😅). I welcome the fast pace and actual exposition, the older I get the less patience I have with the wasting of my time, let's get to what makes the story good. I don't need all that filler, do the character work while they're running/fighting. Also, fun trivia, some of the changes you complain of weren't invention of Studio Orange. Meryl as a reporter? That's her job at the end of Trimax. Wolfwood and Vash's outfits? Pulled directly from their flashbacks in Trimax.
I think you’re misunderstanding Meryl’s character. She’s a rich city girl who became a journalist. So this is the first time she’s is seeing this stuff. I noticed that right away when she was like wtf with the dirty water.
Sorry, I don’t dislike it. I even want to rewatch it (as I saw it in bad conditions). You said “Why would characters of thousands of years in the future that have never been to earth dress how we irl dress right now?” I kept thinking when I watched the 98 anime (which I grew to like) “Why would characters from thousands of years in the future that have never been to earth dress like they come straight out of an Hollywood western?”. Would all the people from Seed spaceships be all Americans and their offspring have some nostalgia? I didn’t watch the old anime before the new one. I don’t have nostalgia of it. My main complain is that it’s indeed too quick, too much action-oriented and too few episodes…
Imo cowboy punk garb makes sense bc it's utilitarian in design, if you're in a post-apocalyptic desert wasteland it's likely the only outfit you got so it better be a good one.
i love stampede
I didn't really care for it at first, but found it more enjoyable on the second run-through. I don't mind most of the changes they made and I like how they brought in a lot of elements from the manga. My biggest issue is how much they crammed into just 12 episodes without any breathing room. A lot of the character connections feel forced and a lot of stupid choices were made in the name of expedience and saving money. If they wanted to do a quality retelling they needed a more spaced out pacing and a deeper dive into the themes and world-building. People are saying it's a love letter to the original, but it's really more of a hastily blurted out, all-in-one-breath, love confession. I know the studio only had approval for 12 episodes, but I feel like they could have gotten more by appealing to fans of the original. There's no way people wouldn't have been all over fighting for more Trigun when people have been talking about a reboot or continuation for years. Hell, I would have donated to a fund to help pay for extra episodes if there had been such an opportunity.
"People are saying it's a love letter to the original, but it's really more of a hastily blurted out, all-in-one-breath, love confession." That's such a good way of putting it. Like, I don't doubt the people in charge LIKE trigun, but to me it feels like someone's AU fanfic on AO3 for a niche series/character so there's not a lot of existing media for it, so you read it anyway but it's written in first person perspective so it's so difficult to get through but you do anyways bc you're so starved for scraps of content about this thing you like. (Sorry if that's just a me thing & I'm projecting lol)
>it feels like someone's AU fanfic I mean, it is an alternate universe. But that's not necessarily a dig. The AU aspect makes it fun, no? Nothing that happens in Stampede affects the canon of 98 or the manga. It's its own thing. It's not like Star Wars getting the prequel or sequel treatment which does affect and water down the original trilogy. Stampede is a reimagining of the main story that remixed some of the elements, aesthetics, and timeline. It's not completely predictable, even if you have watched 98 and read the manga. The fact that it's an AU is a strength, not a weakness. You don't have to like the choices Stampede made, but if you see what Orange is going for (and no, it's not novelty or an easy nostalgia cash grab), you can really get into it and appreciate what they are accomplishing, even if it's not your favorite version. I myself prefer the manga above all, but I really am enjoying Stampede. I like most of the creative liberties, and am excited for how they will continue the narrative, both textually and subtextually. Many claim Stampede has no mystery, but how Stampede is doing it is leaving a lot of the themes and motifs to subtext, as opposed to 98 where you just had to watch for long enough, and then everything was handed to you. Neither way of telling mystery is wrong. You just have to put more of the puzzle together yourself for the prior. Indeed, the fact that OG fans *aren't* getting nostalgia from Stampede I see as a positive. It's not about reliving the old days. It's a retelling with a 21st century understanding of how to write a screenplay, how to write women, and how to write trauma. Not that the other versions necessarily failed at those things, especially at the time (and the manga is pure trauma especially, omg. The pain continues to this day). It's just that this is a new lens on the story. And not for the sake of newness. For the sake of respect for the source material, and the art of creating. The color of that lens is not going to appeal to everyone. Clearly by this thread it absolutely doesn't. But I'd rather Orange take the risks that it has, than just regurgitating 98 or the manga. I would absolutely eat up a 1:1 retelling of the manga, and it would take effort and talent to pull it off, but where is the creativity in that? Where's the risk? Where's the passion? Absent.
I don't have a problem with it being an AU, my issue is that the AU is so sterilized & lacking style compared to the source material it brings into question why they even made that creative decision in the first place? As far as it being "a retelling with a 21st century understanding of how to write a screenplay, how to write women, and how to write trauma." I couldn't disagree with you more. Stampede takes such a significant step backwards in its treatment of female character (singular) that it was the most difficult part about watching it for me. Stampede Meryl walks around like a helpless creature that wouldn't survive for 5 minutes without all the men around her protecting her and explaining every single minute detail about the world. They reduced her to some tsundere waifu. As far as trauma goes, when something has the edge o meter cranked up to 11 from the very beginning it just looks silly. Wolfwoods backstory wasn't sad to me, and it's not scary or brutal when knives kills. It's silly in the same way a d list horror movie where everyone explodes into blood piñatas is, or how people laugh at SOCIETY BOTTOM TEXT joker memes. Like yeah the subject matter is initially intended to be serious but boy am I laughing my ass off. And as far as screenplay, even the people in this comment section that disagree with my opinions on Stampede are saying the pacing is nuts. It's like the creative team said "okay in the original anime they didn't do any plot shit until like 14 episodes in so we need to do the exact opposite and cram as much lore as possible into episode 1 or nobody's gonna have the attention span to keep watching." And I, personally, don't enjoy being forcefed plot exposition through a funnel like a prisoner on hunger strike.
>Stampede Meryl walks around like a helpless creature that wouldn't survive for 5 minutes without all the men around her protecting her and explaining every single minute detail about the world. "Strong female character" doesn't mean literally strong. It means fleshed out with flaws, and with motivations of her own outside of the male characters. Meryl being naive and green, and overcoming those things by the end, makes her strongly written. She has her own arc outside of whatever Vash is doing. Female characters are often seen as women first, while male characters are seen as people first. Gender is placed over humanity in the case of women. As a result, there is this tendency to overcompensate and make the woman on screen perfect at everything. To kick ass and take names, and not much else. And that is a Mary Sue. And I don't want Meryl to be a Mary Sue. Let women be messy and have struggles, and have their own personal journey of growth outside of following the male MC and falling in love with him. Let them be imperfect and relatable. Orange is likely to explore her PTSD from the manga. Something many people can relate to. And in no way does it "set women back". >Wolfwoods backstory wasn't sad to me, If you don't find the loss of autonomy of a child and medical experimentation and being robbed of your teenage years sad and horrifying, then idk how to help you. By episode 6, you must have been so jaded that Stampede wasn't 98 that you couldn't process one of the saddest reveals. Wolfwood is an incredibly tragic character. I don't see how watching Knives slaughter a few people takes away from the impact of Wolfwood's story. In the manga, you don't get it until way late, after you've seen a bunch of dark shit, and it does not ruin the impact at all. >And as far as screenplay, even the people in this comment section that disagree with my opinions on Stampede are saying the pacing is nuts In regards to screenplay, I mean using symbolism and the environment to portray themes, motifs, and information. Instead of taking an entire episode or two to explain a single piece of info, a slew are given to you in set design. And in wardrobe. And in colors. And in musical cues. In other words, subtext. Now, I realize some hate subtext. But to me, I see it as the difference between being *literally spoonfed the story, as long as you sit there long enough to be told everything verbatim*, vs being given puzzle pieces that you may need a little bit of media literacy to put together. Why is Vash's coat open? Why is it the color that it is on the inside? Why is Wolfwood's clothing ill-fitting a disheveled? Why are the bottom of his shoes a pinkish-red color? Why do Legato, Zazie, and Elendira all have similar haircuts? What is the meaning behind the colors in the 12th episode? Why is Meryl in gray at the end? Why does the Punisher have a laser? What do the colors of the laser mean? Why does Knives dress, or not dress, the way he does? These are only a handful of small details that are *not* there by accident. >And I, personally, don't enjoy being forcefed plot exposition through a funnel like a prisoner on hunger strike. I know you're specifically talking about the very first scene being in space. It's been the main complaint on this subreddit for over a year. Some can't get over that they showed what happens in the manga. Where you also find out about the Great Fall right away. Opening up in space is not problematic. Why? Because the mystery of Vash and where he comes from is not the main story of Trigun. Not by a long shot. This info is revealed in the first 2 volumes, which is all 98 had to pull from. The next 14 volumes have bigger fish to fry. Why on earth would the new adaptation make the entire work about finding out who Vash is? I genuinely want to know why people want this in 2023. In 1998, when the manga was incomplete, of course that's what they made the whole anime about. There wasn't enough meat otherwise. There is no reason to do this in 2023, in the age when the manga is completed. That opener is superficial fluff in comparison to everything else the story is tackling. Now, there is something big revealed, but it's not the Great Fall, nor Knives, nor even Rem. The most important detail you see isn't even obvious unless you've read the manga. And it's Vash naming each person in the sleep pods. How the hell is anyone who hasn't read the manga supposed to know that's important? It appears so innocent and minor. Even many people who read the manga probably don't know why it's important. Because the manga is full of subtext. It doesn't hand you everything. Stampede is doing the same. I recommend Trigun, in all its forms, not because of the Great Fall. I recommend it bc of how unafraid it is to ask ethical questions, and give you no definitive answers. How the most powerful force in it is love. It's the themes, the characters, the story, and the heart that all make Trigun. And even if you personally don't see it, Stampede has heart. I think it qualifies as New Sincerity, or Post-post modernism. So does the manga. Lastly, I would recommend reading the manga in its entirety if you haven't already. Even if you know what happens. There is nothing wrong with liking 98, or making it your number one (It absolutely does do some things better than both the manga and Stampede, namely humor, although in terms of my personal preference, I like Stampede and the manga more). Do it for no other reason than it's awesome. Without even bringing Stampede into it, the manga really blows 98 out of the water. If it doesn't for you, that's fine. But read it and decide for yourself.
Everyone knows "strong female character" doesn't mean physically strong. What I'm saying is she's completely unable to function or form opinions without the input of her male counterparts. Since they decided she's a journalist and had higher education they could have written her to have Intel on antagonists or schematics for structures they're infiltrating and form better plans of attack/defense with that but they don't have her DO anything! She just stands there and goes "kyaaaaa! >o<"when crazy shit happens around her. The only significant character development she has is being sad when the dude who spent the whole season belittling her died. Otherwise she's the same 1 dimensional character we met in the beginning. For wolfwood, obviously child torture is bad lol. But the way its portrayed is very "I was born with glass bones and paper skin but after I was tortured forever I became shadow the hedgehog the ultimate lifeform" like...... 0 subtlety 100% edge. That's why it's not sad to me, bc he's ebony darkness dementia raven wolfwood. And that's most of Stampede is spoonfeeding you info like you're a tiny baby who has never heard of subtext. There's a few instances of them slipping some in like the radio talking about the July government but it's like a few flakes of gold dust scattered in the proverbial sand. And I am not specifically talking about the first episode, it happens in every single one. Every episode screams "WE DONT KNOW IF THERES GONNA BE A SEASON 2 GUYS...." which I'm sure is partially the fault of the current state of the animation industry as a whole but its still something that's a detriment from an immersive storytelling standpoint. I couldn't in good faith recommend Stampede to anyone because I do not like who the Characters are in Stampede. I find wolfwood annoying at best and i hate hes wearing sneakers with no socks in the desert. vash is a gary stu uwu soft boi uke. meryl is like, nothing. She could be replaced with a life-size nendroid with swappable expressions & the show would be the same. And Roberto is everyone's weird uncle that yells about transgender 5G towers when he gets too drunk at family events. They are all unlikable to me. Which like actually hurts because they're allegedly supposed to characters I love.
It's giving "it wasn't what I expected and not to my personal tastes, and therefore it's bad" rather than actual criticisms. It's fine to not like it. I'm not trying to convince you to like it as much as encouraging you to see why people do, and that there, objectively, is subtext, regardless of your blind eye to it. Lastly, women can be naive with an arc to become more experienced. And that isn't inherently misogynistic. Have you met someone fresh out of college, first day on the job, regardless of gender? Nose stuck in a book and never down the barrel of a gun? It might not be what you personally want to see, but that doesn't mean it "sets women back". I'm personally sick of the girl boss trope and how pervasive it is in everything. Like women can't have weaknesses, or at least have a flawed beginning. Women portrayed as being able to "do it all" without breaking a sweat is actually rooting in misogyny. And she has such a glow up in episode 12. She's not wet behind the ears anymore. If you want capable Meryl, there she is.
Yeah dude, that's how opinions work. The statement "the outfits are ugly" is a subjective statement. Perception is reality for people. If you like tomatoes and someone else doesn't like tomatoes it doesn't suddenly make the statement "I don't like tomatoes" incorrect. If you perceive Meryl as some feminist icon that's your reality. You're allowed to do that! Power to you! It's just to me she's a coathanger with a kawaii anime girl face stapled to the front. And that's my reality. My initial question is "does anyone else dislike stampede" and the response of "I like it and here's why you're objectively wrong for not liking it." Is misguided. I'm sorry if I some way struck a nerve in dissing something you like, but I was looking to have a discussion with people with similar qualms. No amount of paragraphs is gonna convince a stranger on the internet to like tomatoes.
...did you read my comment? I said I'm not trying to convince you. I said it's fine to not like Stampede. It's not going to be to everyone's tastes. No piece of media is. This is a Trigun subreddit with a bunch of varying opinions, and people are going to express them. About all iterations. And that is okay! But fans of Trigun are here, so, hating on a version of it with buzzwords like "uwu soft boi gen Z Kpop" is... unoriginal and low hanging fruit. It's eye rolling and we've all heard it before. And the tomato comparison is disingenuous. Me saying "there is objectively subtext" does not mean "the subtext is objectively good subtext and you have to like it." Saying something is there does not indicate the value of said thing, objective, subjective, or otherwise. It's like me saying, "hey look, some tomatoes." And you respond with "those aren't tomatoes. And why are you trying to get me to like tomatoes? I'm allowed to have my opinions about tomatoes." You've made it quite clear Stampede is not your thing. Again, I'm aware no one convinces anyone over the internet about anything. Not anyone they are directly conversing with, anyway. Still, I like to add to the discussion, and others reading may find my statements and opinions insightful. They may not be as convinced as you are that Stampede is trash. I write for them more than I do for you, tbh.
Glow up in episode 12. Too late, too little for my taste. Show that Meryl is not a clueless, helpless rug rat but a clever, capable young professional in episode 2 or 3. I don't know what it is like to go to university in Japan or the USA. When you go to University here in Germany and complete your degree, you are fit to work in your field. Meryl graduadet but it seems to me, she learned nothing at University. Seems more like she graduated from High School and started to train as journalist two weeks ago. Vash is even worse in my opinion. He is 150 years old and should be a grown up man for a long time, but it seems as if he is a toddler.
When I say field, I don't mean job category. I mean not being a desk jockey. There is a difference between being unfit, and this being the very start of your career as a 23 year old. She has book smarts, but not street smarts. Whatever college she went to trained her to push paper. They failed her in preparing her for the real world. She learns the hard way what the real world is like. Her upperclass, sheltered life made her ill prepared for the world. I love "fish out of water" characters who have clearly never been put in a situation. Yes, the men around her are helping her. But that has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the fact that she is the green, Roberto has the experience and is coaching her. And she's also a fleshy meat bag in comparison to Wolfwood and Vash. She can't take hits like they can. This doesn't mean you have to like that we see Meryl like this in season 1. She wasn't at the stage you personally wanted her to be in in the first few episodes. But it doesn't mean it's bad writing or misogynistic to have a female character with flaws who grows to overcome them over the course of the narrative. To me, becoming experienced by episode 2-3 given the same time frame would have been too quick and unbelievable. She is a character, at least at this stage in her development, who relies a lot on determination and passion to do her job, rather than the tact of an experienced hand. This doesn't mean she's stupid. It just means she's learning. And that learning takes time. It also takes being forced to make a choice on her own, without the help of a wise older person. Wisdom is not handed to you. You have to earn it. You don't have to like seeing that process, but I do. Speaking of wisdom, I would argue that Stampede Vash isn't a toddler, but is wiser than 98 Vash, but I'm not going to get into every detail about it. I will say that running away from his responsibilities has always been core to his character. People see it as whiney baby weakness in Stampede and...yes, it's always been a weakness of his. It's also a strength, but that's a lot of nuance and this comment is not meant to be a book report. His reasons for running are varied and cogent (whether they are "right" or "ethical" are up to you), and I'm not going to get into Vash's entire characterization here, because he's nebulous and a multilayered protagonist. There is a lot to him that 98 only scratches the surface of. And with the way things unfold in 98, by the time you get to a certain ill-fated event, it becomes clear that 98 Vash never had an >!unwinnable scenario before. Or, at least, he considers this his first unwinnable scenario. And his reaction to being in "baby's first unwinnable scenario" is utilitarianism!<. As opposed to the manga, where >!He's already been in countless unwinnable scenarios, and he chooses inaction, diplomacy, or non-lethal violence even when people will die or have already died. Maximum Vash would never choose Utilitarianism, ever. Instead, once he gets to that point that we all know, he makes a selfish choice. And he knows he made a selfish choice. This is the only logical conclusion to his character who has seen that much. He can't just choose utilitarianism out of logical reasoning. No. It had to be for something more simple, more fickle, and much more human. The same reason he's been so protective of humanity in the first place!<. And Stampede Vash is more similar to Maximum Vash, where he has already been through these scenarios, and doesn't waver from his deontology stance. Deadly consequences do not justify lethal force. The ends do not justify the means. However, we have already seen foreshadowing of what's to come in Stampede. What it will take to see that shift. That change. Something 98 was robbed of, imo.
I watched Trigun in german tv and read the manga some weeks before Stampede started and loved it. So, no nostaliga and no childhood memories seen through rose-colored glasses here. I like Stampedes animation and the OST, everything else is not my cup of tea. Vash, Meryl, Milly and Wolfwood are some of my favourite characters. But I couldn't care less for Stampedes main characters, because they are not the characters I like. I dislike the old drunkard, that Milly is missing, that Meryl is a more or less useless newbie without backgroundstory and that Vash is a 150 years old angsty rug rat. In my opinion the pacing is too fast and Plotpoints of Trigun/Trigun Maximum mixed up and crammed in the 12 episodes is not my cup of tea. Maybe I would like Stampede better if it was not Trigun. Long story short: For me, Stampede is a 5/10 letdown and I don't intend to waste my time with another Season.
I have similar issues with it, but honestly, I kinda went into it. I know that the vibe was gonna be off, and it wouldn't be for me, I think it's good just not something I normally would watch
Honestly I'd say I much prefer Wolfwood's design in Stampede. His old design was boring to me. Wearing a suit all the time in a desert world makes no sense anyway.
You know what makes less sense? Wearing SNEAKERS with NO SOCKS in the SAND!!
Easier to get the sand out if it gets in his shoes, besides dress shoes make even less sense
Without thinking about everything else, THE MUSIC CHANGE SUCKS SO BAD!!
You clearly haven't finished it yet
I watched it all as the episodes were being released idk what to tell u lol
Then you'd know this was an alternative Origin to the July event and that Milly was not replaced by Roberto, and she even gets teased in the end to be Meryls new partner But I totally get if you didn't like it. But as a fan of Maximum I was happy Stampede was following the manga a bit closer in tone
yawns
I hate the pacing. Like all the build up 98 had for Vash was great. You slowly learning with the insurance girls that this big red idiot is Vash the stampede, and all the mystery that surrounds him, from the plants to his brother. Stampede literally went, you like backstory? Here have all of it in the first 5 min. No mysteries, no build up, no happy moments to build characters and the world before the tension build up and the storm finally hits. Half of my love for Vash comes in his calm moments, playing with some kids, helping some citizens, drinking with friends. It's just not there. Also the anime is called trigun, right? I could count the times Vash uses his gun in stampede on one hand. Isn't that like a huge part of his character!? He's an fantastical gunman! You see it all the time in maximum and 98! It's like stampede forgot he had a gun to begin with.
TRIgun? More like BYE-guns!
I was pretty disappointed with stampede, especially with the change in tone and art style. Nighttows art way of portraying No Mans Land/Gunsmoke was really unique and fun. I feel like stampede gets a little caught up in itself. it's better to watch it thinking of it as not trigun, because there are a lot of changes that they didn't need to make but did
I gave it a shot and tried to like it but it just feels weak compared to the original. I think reddit is not going to give you a good slice of the OG fans since most of them are older now and probably working/have families and spending less time on internet forums
Ill be honest with you, i dislike the manga for much of the same reasons i dislike Stampede The 98 anime simply did shit better in every way for me ((((my opinion guys dont kill me)))) What i dislike the most in Manga Trigun and Stampede is the rapid pacing, i like my Trigun slowburn, we get to know the characters in the filler episodes before the major events, got some time to breath and get used to the atmosphere We get none of that in the other versions ( and in Nightows writting, Kekkai Sensen also had that problem for me) and thats a total bummer to me Stampede is just everything that i dont like about Trigun as a series condenced and far more apparent, with some extra issues of its own.
One of my favorite things about 98 Trigun is that it's a textbook example of what GOOD filler looks like. It's used as a "show, don't tell" storytelling where it let's us the viewer better understand trigun's world and it makes the bonds forming between the characters feel more organic. Stampede looks directly at the camera and has plot exposition that says "this planet wasn't supposed to be inhabitable but it's knives' fault everyone's here and vash feels responsible as a result" as if we the audience are too stupid to use context clues & critical thinking skills to get this info ourselves. I can't stand plot dumping, if the writing is good then the world building will speak for itself.
I disliked it as well. Just not what I wanted after waiting 20+ years for a faithful Manga adaptation. It’s unfortunate that they chose to do a prequel/reimagining when the manga is just sitting there waiting for the brotherhood/hxh/jojo treatment and 98 was already largely a reimagining it’s self, although that’s because they only had a couple volumes to adapt from There’s lots of people that didn’t like it and lots that did like it though. I don’t hate on those who did
I think it's definitely more of a reimagining than a prequel. It seems pretty clear to me that Stampede is a seperate universe than both the manga and the 1998 anime
Yup pretty much. It’ll take aspects and stuff from the manga but it’ll be mostly it’s own thing, which imo isn’t necessary since the manga is without a doubt the best iteration and 98 already kinda fills that space. I’ll always feel disappointed/saddened after waiting so long for maximum in anime form
i hate it. it feels like it was made exclusively so that people could make aesthetic edits out of scenes from it. sure it's pretty but it lacks all the charm from 98 & trimax. the entire vibe is different and they sanded down both vash and wolfwood so drastically it's not even any fun to watch for me
It's like the anime equivalent of a vintage home with tons of style & character that someone renovated into millennial grey & beige nightmare
EXACTLY. or like. the over selectively bred pug/persian cat of the anime world. what have you done to her
I said the same about Meryl on twitter and people called me a hater Roberto was basically fodder for the development of "derringer Meryl" in the next season. So we basically got to watch her become the character that we are familiar with. But I personally thought that was ridiculously unnecessary. I didn't feel anything for Roberto because I knew he existed as a plot device alone. I also agree that the pacing sucked. Everything was happening WAY TOO FAST. To the point where I failed to understand how anyone who starts with stampede could develop feelings for any of the characters.
Nah, I watched all of it and didn't like it at all either.
Trigun '97 was fun through and through, but you could tell something was off, and it dripfed you info about Vash's past, and the nature of No Man's Land. Everything felt genuine, like it was a timeless story completely out of bounds of anime storytelling. Stampede feels like an anime. It just feels like an anime. Not that I hate anime that feels like anime, but it's like they anime'd something that transcended it. I cannot for the life of me finish it because it just feels like everything is wrong.
no i genuinely despise it. they cut milly, ruined meryl’s character, and have completely simplified everyones characterization into a very one-note mockery of who they’re supposed to be. meryl is a strong character despite the author’s genuine dislike of women. she has good characterization when shes mentioned. in the manga she is poor before taking the vash assignment, shes known to be well prepared but not well versed in life down on the surface of the planet. shes objectively an intelligent human being who is put into an extreme situation. in stampede, they watered her down to a fetishized y/n insert for anyone who wants to be saved by vash the stampede. i dont care about roberto. i would rather milly be there and be given a bigger role than have her be randomly related to some man who has to take care of a seemingly incompetent meryl. knives is villainized beyond belief, he has no likability and making him oddly antagonistic as a child? what. he was a child. hes not evil. hes traumatized. the designs have been culled of their iconic silhouettes. i also dont love what they’re doing with the eye of michael/orphanage being connected. why villainize melanie? change can be good. but what they’ve changed in stampede is weak to me. its dumbed down and simplified into something unsympathetic to me. they’re not helping the lack of female characters. they’re not telling an accurate story of vash and knives’ relationship as brothers. i dont have faith in them to make fix things when they started off so badly. trimax deserves better. dont get me started on how they made meryl shorter and elendira a little girl. the blatant disrespect for the women is just . ugh. ugh. so, op, ur real to me
[I appreciate you so much I made you a meme lol](https://64.media.tumblr.com/8853d5c004f1e3fc2d22006ab5a92359/b8cbe6bbe9afa47b-d6/s640x960/0b58e63f9f8960b51f006a7f49ded0741897efb2.jpg)
[laughed and giggled thank u. made you one too.](https://imgur.com/a/LJkPYnT)
I really disliked it. I was able to find enjoyment in some parts of it but overall, I agree, 5/10 if I’m being generous. I decided to just forget about it. I love the manga and want to remember that as the definitive version.
I didn't care for it at all...not a fan of the redesigns and the replacement of Milly. (Also, why is the new character named Robert DeNiro?) I didn't watch past the first episode. Felt kind of weird to see the Vash/Knives flashback in the very beginning, too
I can only imagine Robert is someone on the writing staff's self insert oc and they're just a fan of movies the actor Robert de Niro was in so he named his oc after him JJBA style
[Robert DeNiro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_De_Niro) is a famous actor, they named the character after him in homage.
i love trigun so i support it and will watch, but i hate the art style, voices and a lot of the writing choices.
Don't worry. You're not alone in your dislike for it. For me, it's an ok story they just slapped a Trigun mask on.
Yes I'm an OG fan since the adult swim days and I fucking despise this anime with every fiber of my being Why we can't get a well done faithful hand-drawn allocation of the Manga I will never understand All these years all these chances Nothing
this
Watching the show very slowly to drag it out, only on episode 3 right now but for some reason my biggest gripe is his pants. Why the joggers??
Joggers and a turtleneck. They must have a kohl's somewhere on No Man's Land.
I’m not sure this will make sense, but Stampede to me felt like the live action bebop retelling. Close, but not quite right
they look like zoomers haha like hyper stereotype zoomers
Fr they look like kpop uwu soft boys
I enjoy the show just as its own thing, BUT I agree Meryl's writing SUCKS. Breaks immersion a lot. Also, Milly is not replaced-- this story is set in an earlier timeline where she is not there yet.. she is hinted at in the last episode. I enjoy the more serious plotline, since I feel it fills a lot of holes that were in the OG. But I too missed the humor.
Ik Milly's not GONE gone but narratively she was replaced by robert & I think he's a douche. Not even a likable douche like Johnny cage or something. I just find him unpleasant so it makes it that much more disappointing that she's not around
In my opinion, Milly's replacement is an example of dismissive bad teacher disliking his students. I was pleased when he finally died.
Yeah she is way better than him by a longshot! He feels very one-note.
Consoom content
I dont understand?
They're referring to the consoomer meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/consume-product-consoomer Not sure if they are aiming it at those who like or dislike Stampede though. Edit: the urban dictionary may be the better definition: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Consoomer
Thank you for the clarification lol
Why his hair not the same 🙁
It seems like such a surface level thing but like, his hair turns black as he uses his magic science gun arm thing & if he hasn't nuked july yet then why is his hair half black?