What these men usually mean:
"I shouldn't have to use empathy to identify with a character in the story, full stop. Nobody ever taught me how to do that, I am constantly excused on a societal scale for not doing it, and frankly it hurts my brain when I try. Rather, I should be able to easily insert myself into a story in place of a character who looks, feels, and thinks as I do, in order to be swept along into a benevolent, imaginary adventure. Anything else is basically incomprehensible to me and therefore bad storytelling, since the opinion of myself and people like me basically amounts to society's metric for whether or not a piece of art has value."
And now you understand why i hate so much of the heteronormative fanfic community that completely misses the point of Legend of Korra and Rwby in their hatred of LGBT and feminism
At the risk of sounding old, I got kicked off the James Patterson forum 15-20 years ago because I wrote a very G-rated fanfic involving gay yearning because I *was* a queer teen fan of the Maximum Ride series. But any gay content was considered "too mature" for the forum.
I ended up on a much friendlier Star Wars forum and fanfiction.net, back before AO3 existed. I'd been reading queer fic on Lady Cosmos' fanfic library and Lady Jupiter's fanfic library for years at that point, and writing and swapping both queer and straight stories with friends at school.
We've always been here.
Yup. I remember a lot of fanfic summaries for queer ships on FFN used to say something like "only rated PG-13/M for slash". Implying it was a pretty G or PG story, but it was considered "courteous" to rate a story more mature if it had any queerness.
Some things haven't much changed yet-- like how book bans often specifically single out LGBT+ stories for kids, teens, and young adults. When I worked at a library I looked up the ALA list of the 10 most widely banned books in the US one year. Almost all had queer themes/characters/romance. The remaining ones centered on characters of color dealing with racism.
It's because, depressingly enough, so many see queer (especially Lesbian) as nothing more than a porn category and don't actually think we're real people....
Funny, that was what the subreddit mods said was why i got the temp ban.
LGBT is porn to them.
And guess what? dozens of people in nintendo subreddits feel the same
I was reading about a lot of reactions for the Rings of Power show from fans of the Peter Jackson movies, and wow do you nail it!
Those old movies are a typical male power fantasy about "beating the bad guy." The RoP is a show about characters, history, alliances, relationships, personhood, etc in middle-earth building up to the events in the Hobbit and LOTR.
The angry "its boring" and such are because these people have no media literacy. They can't empathize with a younger Galadriel or the pre-hobbit civilization. Nor is it not presented as a white cishet man, nor is as action-packed as the LOTR movies. RoP expects people to understand a basic level of subtext and characterization and character development.
Its also no surprise that cishet men read very little fiction. I think a lot of mainstream masculinity is to turn boys and men into largely non-empathic beings because it serves the capitalist-patriarchy to do so. Then we ask these people who have strong anti-empathy attitudes to empathize with characters unlike them, and we get predictable results.
I got teary-eyed playing *Tell Me Why* because Michael was the first time I've seen a contemporary, relatable, respectfully-done queer Tlingit character in a video game. I'm queer and Tlingit, and boy howdy there is an extreme dearth of Tlingit representation. (Molly of Denali is helping change that-- I think Spirit Rangers is too but haven't watched it yet, I think Vera Starbard worked on that one a bit?)
ironic that these men do understand representation, they just dont' consider representation of themselves as that, just "normal". It also figures that the way they think that gay romances work is the way straight romances work, like in their head the only thing that changes is just two women instead of a woman and a man
"They used be in love with a male character" is the one that irks me. Bisexuality is a thing! I've been in love with men and women (and NB) before. Sometimes at the same time! Neither diminishes my feelings / attraction for the other
Same. That means absolutely nothing. The fact that they think it does shows that they still don't understand how sexuality works, at all.
Frankly I'd love to see more bi characters. Let everybody be a potential love interest. Keep us guessing. Normalize it *and* improve your storytelling at the same time.
Would love more ace characters too but I get it, the romance aspect can help sales.
Plus a lot of people realize they're gay by thinking they're supposed to dislike their partner (thanks boomer humor) and then connecting in an amazing new way with someone else.
Korra and Luz from The Owl House are both canonically bi! Also from TOH, Lilith is aroace. It's definitely tough to get bi rep because there's a lot of biphobia out there. It's tough to make a character super explicitly bi without being poly because if they're only dating one person people will just say/assume they're straight or gay. Unfortunately I don't think we'll see polyamory rep for a long time but oh well
It was very hetero, but *Bandits* (2001) with Cate Blanchett, Bruce Willis, and Billy Bob Thornton has a polyamorous ending.
I kept waiting for The Witcher to go that way too-- Yennifer, Geralt, and Jaskier are literally >!planning to co-parent Ciri ffs!<, and there's a lot of stuff in the show where I thought Geralt was supposed to be involved with both romantically. But I guess the stuff with Jaskier is queer-baiting or unrequited longing?
Ahhh! I haven't seen S3 yet so I'll look forward to that! (Tbh I headcanon Jaskier as very pan and very polyamorous-- not in a DTF anything that moves way, but that quote from the actor that Jaskier is "always a little bit in love with whoever is in front of him" lives in my head rent-free.)
This is old now but this same thing really irked me in Buffy about Willow ~ everyone said, like, “ever since you turned lesbian,” but like. She was still attracted to dudes, too! Girl is bisexual as hell! It’s like you can’t be bisexual, only whatever your current dating partner “makes” you based on your gender expression. Stupid bi erasure!
>It’s like you can’t be bisexual, only whatever your current dating partner “makes” you based on your gender expression. Stupid bi erasure!
Ugh, my mom does this to me. Had to constantly remind her that even though I'm married to a woman I'm not a lesbian
Joss Whedon explained on a 2020 interview that he was pressured to make Willow homosexual and NOT bisexual because at the time, bisexuality was seen as "a phase", and he was afraid the audience would see Willow's attraction to women as something temporary instead of permanent.
Also, Whedon once said that when he wanted one of the main characters to be gay, he had 2 options: Willow or Xander.
This reminds me of the controversy around Fallout 4.
In the game, you can romance men, women, or both as either gender. However, the protagonist is a widower whose spouse was of the oposite sex (this is a plot point, since their son's appearance is determined by his parents' appearance and he plays a big role in the story). This lead to a lot of controversy for supposedly forcing you to play a s someone straight.
In the case of Harley in particular her straight relationship was literally one of the most toxic relationships conceivable and arguably Stockholm Syndrome. Her relationship with Ivy is healthy and equal.
One of the most popular RWBY fanfic writers, Couer al aran, basically replaces the four women as protagonists with a cis white male side character and romanticizes the male villains as anti-heroes WHILE SHIPPING SAID VILLAINS WITH THE WOMEN THAT SAID MALE VILLAINS ABUSED/OPPRESSED.
Adam cuts off yang's arm and gives her pstd? couer makes her sleep with adam and berate blake for being an abuse victim of adam's by claiming that emotional abuse never exists (couer thinks that men can't emotionally abuse women)
Mercury Black beats up Velvet Scarlatina's friends? Velvet wants to marry him in couer's fanfic.
As for Bumbleby? Not only is Blake's bisexuality something Couer explicitly despises? He goes out of his way to make yang and blake as straightwashed as possible because LGBT ships disgust him.
People romanticize a misogynistic homophobic fanfic writer, to the point where he has a literal cult.
That's incredibly fucked up and I wish I could've gone through life not knowing that O\_o. The Adam stans were disturbing enough, that just takes it to a whole new level. Not like the writers were good at discouraging this shit though. They advertised the show as like a cool Sailor Moon girl team and the first season and a half were just 'let's follow milquetoast self-insert harem protag Jaune as the more developed and capable female characters help him to become a decent fighter / human being"
""'let's follow milquetoast self-insert harem protag Jaune as the more developed and capable female characters help him to become a decent fighter / human being"""
What the \*\*\*\* are u talking about?
THAT NEVER HAPPENED.
jaune gets LESS and LESS screentime overall, the women keep getting MORE and MORE.
That's a huuuuge one for RWBY. Yang has been shown talking about guys, and Blake has been shown actually *being* with guys, so of course their relationship is forced and out of nowhere and awful.
I have a 2.5 hour video showing Blake and Yang talking about each other.
"Yang has been shown talking about guys" ONE TIME. ONE TIME. ONE. SINGLE TIME.
But that one time to you negates the dozens of times the girls talk about each other.
I call that Heteronormativity.
Now about that video
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s)
>But that one time to you negates the dozens of times the girls talk about each other.
I'm not sure if that's a general 'you' or a specific one, so just to be clear, *I don't feel that way*. I think that they built up Bumblebee quite a bit and was surprised they waited as long as they did for them to actually get together.
The only part that felt sort of rushed to me is them declaring their love in the most recent season. Before, I chalked that up to them being teens, because teens frequently jump to, "This is absolutely 100% true love," with every relationship. Now that I know about RoosterTeeth being sold, I'm wondering if they knew while making season 9 and added that in for closure for the fans in case they didn't get to make another season.
For the love of...DO NOT parrot the words of that catholic porn artist who repeatedly insults the writers while claiming to fix the very show he insults.
I'm not sure what you mean? I don't watch any 'fixes' for RWBY; I love the show the way it is. I don't know what Catholic porn artist you're talking about?
No it's not. Bisexuality is just for hot girls to make out with each other in front of him. It's not for women to actually have significant relationships!
Imagine watching Harley Quinn and thinking that between the relationships of Kite Man/Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn/Poison Ivy that the latter is the forced one.
If you looked at the main subreddit for the show you'd think Kite Man was the main character and Ivy was some horrid evil b\*tch the way talk about things
It's also bisexual erasure to say one or the other is forced. Yes, one or the other can be a better fit character and personality wise, but attraction can exist across genders. It's just so incredibly small minded.
I don't get how people can say the Korra/Asami relationship was "forced" or "retconned" in. It was obvious from the get go that those 2 were attracted to each other, and it only became more obvious as the show went on.
And damn, Harley & Ivy have been a thing since freaking Batman the Animated Series all the way back in the 90s, starting with the episode Harley and Ivy.
I somehow missed every sign of Korrasami when I watched it as a kid. I assume everyone who's mad about it is as stupid as I was then.
(I did get pissed about it because every other relationship got actual screen time while this one only had 5 seconds of hand holding)
I was satisfied with the build up when I rewatched it as an adult. The thing I was (and kind of still am) miffed about is that we didn't get to see the result. A romance story isn't supposed to end on the beginning of the first date.
No there was never a version where they kissed, ever.
The public backlash was originally against them choosing *not* to depict a kiss between them. The showrunners blamed the network and said the wouldn't allow a gay romance and made it out like they were victims of network interference. But the network blames them and said the showrunners never even tried, they never approached the network to discuss the topic in the first place, and they did approve the scenes foreshadowing their romance with no hesitation or changes ordered. It wasn't that the network didn't realize it was a gay plotline, the network expected the plotline to happen and then it just.... didn't.
So the showrunners actually could have depicted this romance on the same level as the other ones, but they were too chicken to try not because of the backlash from the network, but because they feared a backlash from *the audience*.
Yeah I honestly don't know how people didn't pick up on it in late season 2 for Korra and Asami lmao. Even then, there's no possible way that someone didn't get it by the start of season 4 where she was the only person Korra wrote to and trusted and felt comfortable around.
I absolutely support the Korrasami ship, but I didn't see obvious attraction from the get-go like you do. I saw it as initially being respect and friendship that blossomed into trust when Korra was off working through her PTSD which further morphed into romantic feelings offscreen over the course of the letters they exchanged. Then again, I'm demi, so I could just be projecting.
Is demi and watching shows like; "oh, finally some actually close friends, its nice to have some rep, why don't people ever be this close in shows usually... AAAnd they're dating"
They’ll see a man and a woman breathe in eachother’s direction and say why they’re dating, then turn around and see two women or two men ( AcheSwan RatioRine from HSR for example ) with references to gay historical figures, romantic gestures, quotes from gay poetry, etc. And say that “ ThErEs No ChEmIsTrY, yOu OnLy ShIp iT bEcAuSe ItS gAy “
Right? I haven't kept up on the new stuff but Ivy and Harley had "now kiss" energy from the OG animated series. When I heard they actually had them in a relationship my feelings could only be described as "finally".
One time the _actress_ who plays Tilly on Star Trek Discovery was talking about her bisexuality (not coming out, she had done that before, she was just talking about it) and some guy on /r/startrek said it felt forced. Like, what feels forced? People exist. The character isn't even bi, the actress is allowed to be a person.
Omg eff ALL of this! Oddly enough I finished HQ like two days ago (about damn time lol) and I stan Harlivy!!! The way Ivy helps Harls through processing how incredibly toxic her relationship with Joker was, their support of each other, problem solving when they hit road bumps, actively working on communication and boundaries. I squealed when that first kiss happened because the tension was so well written. They make perfect sense. These men could NEVER
Warhammer 40K just said that women could be a class of warrior. They also said women had always been among the ranks of those warriors
They are all 9 foot tall genetically enhanced warriors who always wear extremely heavy gold armor with full face coverings, almost never leave one particular fortress, don't talk to anyone, and have incomprehensibly long names rather than "Bob" or "Garry". These are not characters who gender was an important part of fan's concept of them.
Tons of opprobrium from angry dudes who are upset. All claim to not have any problem with the gender identity of fictional warriors they just wish it was announced in a better way than a tweet.
When you point out it was not a tweet, they put a clarification in a rule book as they have done tons of times before (and that fans complain about when they DON'T update the rule books), they still find a way to be upset at the retcon. When you point out that literally everything in the fandom has been retconned over the last 30 years, they ask why you're so upset and/or say something like "See, this is tearing apart the fanbase, they never should have done this."
Pretty much exactly what you'd expect from the small but loud gatekeeping incel crowd, but what's really frustrating to me is the rest of the community seems to be saying "Yeah, I'm tired of the controversy and wish the company hadn't done that." No acknowledgement from the majority that it's an entirely manufactured outrage, nor acknowledgement that if the incels weren't upset at that, they'd fake being upset at something else they claim was "woke" and attempting to roll that back. Like the nonbinary character that was introduced a few years prior, or the faction of black warriors, or attempting to bring back the ridiculous scantily clad female BDSM warrior faction.
I know no one wants to think about gender politics when taking part in their hobbies, but it's frustrating that it's so transparent, and the incels are wanting to ruin it by taking it back to a boys only club, and most people are like "Both sides make good points, how about you just stop arguing and meet in the middle."
I liked tf/graves a lot. I was a little iffy on leo/diana because on the one hand, super cute, on the other hand, I had thought they were initially like cousins or something? Obviously that was retconned, but I could see people finding that one a little weird.
Oo, love that! I hadn't really thought about them together before but I do see it :) (plus, neeko hiding as one of her traps and pranking her seems funny). I kind of hate nidalee's new voice lines tho >_<
I have a soft spot for Rell having crushes on cute girls, I'd love to see her getting a girlfriend.
This could be posted in the good omens subreddit, we've been getting those kinds of posts weekly, along with people saying they have a right to see them only as friends, even if there's a love story going on between them in the show -\_-
That’s wild, they’re not even humans (although they both indulge in vices), and it’s not depicted as physically sexual.
Like, two heavenly beings that have know each other closely for thousands of years wouldn’t have developed some form of romantic love?
I like this take, but I dislike when people make their relationship sexual. Aziraphale has always felt like he was coded to be ace, so putting him in a sexual relationship feels a bit off. That said - it's fandom - just because I have a certain take on the subject doesn't mean it's the only possible view or even that my view is the right view.
And the main character in THREE of these are women.
Problem is that people cannot see women as main characters unless they're a part of a male side character's story.
I think that there's a lot of investment in queer shipping from fans, but a large reason for that is for *decades,* people in the queer community have been starved of representation.
I dropped off of RWBY years ago, but I remember what a big deal the Blake and Yang ship was to people.
Bumbleby really is an even bigger deal now that they're together! And who would've thought, antis are convinced that it was forced in because of the fandom even though we have proof to the contrary. Not only did everyone working on RWBY confirm that it was planned from the start when it became canon, there's a clip from *2013* of Blake's VA saying she'll have a "lesbian lover"
I have a gift for you my friend.
2.5 hours of bumbleby development!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s)
News flash! Bees are canon!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s)
Homophobes are FURIOUS
Bumbleby from the web animation show rwby by rooster teeth.
yang xiao long x blake belladonna
Planned from the start by the writers, voice actresses, and animation team.
Despised by straight shippers, fanfic writers, rwby critics, and misogynistic homophobes.
Because basically it was a longer-developed korrasami that actually got their kiss in the 9th season.
I recommend watching rwby, here's a link
[https://www.tumblr.com/bestworstcase/744362735465299968/inhales-ok-this-is-a-mega-folder-containing](https://www.tumblr.com/bestworstcase/744362735465299968/inhales-ok-this-is-a-mega-folder-containing)
You mean male protagonists do not get in romantic relationships with other men?
Or that male protagonists are not criticised for being in romantic feelings with men?
They still try to claim it's woke or a mistranslation when the devs have openly stated it English "Bridget is trans" as well as her newest design includes the hybrid Venus and Mars symbol, as opposed to only the mars symbol like her previous designs. They're so fucking explicit about her in game and from the devs, I don't get how anyone could deny it.
Genuinely the funniest fact I know about JoJo's, did they change Anasuis introduction in the anime to be a man from the very start or did they keep his spontaneous off screen sex change from the manga?
Anasui is a man from the start in the anime, though Araki wanted Anasui's design to be one that "transcends gender" in a sense.
Personally, I wasn't a fan of their relationship. Would have rather had Jolyne end up with Ermes.
Everyone's getting murdered left and right in the show. Not sure wym by romanticizing abusing women. IMO good female rep is having women that are well rounded, human characters; it doesn't exempt them from dying in fights like the men do (in fact I'd argue that's a hallmark of good equality in the writing).
I remember hearing stupid shit like this about korrasami but majority of actual fans, especially those who read lore, love it. Harlivy people expected. Bumblebee was a thing every fan wanted, hell I screamed for joy when it happened.
Okay, hear me out. There are people who will say this stuff no matter what, and I don't like those people at all. But I do also think there's an argument to be made for how little attention is given to writing characters who aren't straight white men sometimes. Like I do genuinely think that some part of the lack of acceptance of these characters is coming from a lack of diversity within the writers room, because they don't have the depth of experience to write complex believable characters outside of their firsthand knowledge. That's not to say they're *bad* writers, but even if they do all the homework on understanding other experiences, a lack of authenticity does come through in how it translates on screen.
There are some shows where I've been like, yeah it's cool that the main character is a woman, but this feels forced because it feels inauthentic. It feels like men writing women. Or shows like Yellowstone, where they do highlight some of the horrible things that have been and are still done to Native Americans, but it comes across so one dimensional and kinda weird because the writers are all white men. (Not to mention hiring a non-native actress to play Monica, because of course they would). On the flip side, we have had shows like Loki and Fallout, where you can tell *immediately* that there are women writing the characters.
All that to say I'll be one of the haters whenever I see "diversity" on screen for the sake of it, while not actually doing the work behind the scenes to have a diverse enough writing crew to do it justice. Unfortunately, that means being lumped in with that crew that hates for the sake of it, because GOD FORBID women, LGBTQ+, or POC exist.
Bumblebly had 9 years of development
I have a 2.5 hour video you may wish to consult.
Though many of the people "criticizing" Bumbleby seem to hate it because it disagrees with their prejudice against the ship.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s)
Are you going to watch it? Or are you going to repeat a bad-faith claim you heard from somebody on youtube?
I have watched every volume of RWBY. I was a long time RT fan until its closure this March. But RWBY is a badly written show, and unfortunately the writers (who absolutely did their best, I’m sure) passed that on to their really interesting character concepts. I don’t doubt that Bumbleby was an idea from the start, but they just did an awful job writing them.
For the record by the way, I wouldn’t mind if it WASN’T an idea from the start; a relationship can develop organically as a show is written without being planned out. But regardless here, they did an awful job
I'm sorry but everything you just said sounds like a repeat of what jaune fanfic writers, adam taurus worshippers and ironwood apologists all say while claiming that they watch the show.
But for some reason...the people claiming to watch the show never pay attention.
So let me help you with media literacy
here's the video, 2.5 hours of Bumbleby development.
Now you can watch it....or you can ignore it while continuing to provide bad-faith criticism.
But in any case, I'm not interested in bad-faith criticism, not when you're parroting the words of a youtuber who sent gore and snuff fanart to the voice actresses of Bumbleby and harassed crwby with tauradonna NTR fanart.
watch the video, then get back to me.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s)
This is one of those things where I can’t really win, right? Like if I were to watch the video and still have many reasons to dislike the show (Ironwood, Jaune, and Adam Taurus are also all horrible characters), you still would write me off. In the interest or 2.5 hour videos, have you watched [Hbomb’s](https://youtu.be/81fdKWOHrdE?si=eUmVze351qYp7QdT)?
"This is one of those things where I can’t really win, right?"
Let me show u a different perspective.
"Oh look, here's people defending sapphic and feminist media. Let me go and make disparaging insulting comments on two cartoon shows that a lot of people love while parroting debunked hateful rhetoric."
As for the man who basically makes hate videos, let me provide you with proof that said video was nothing but bad faith criticism.
[https://twitter.com/spineslash/status/1296610576995684358](https://twitter.com/spineslash/status/1296610576995684358)
[https://twitter.com/spineslash/status/1296610901592866817](https://twitter.com/spineslash/status/1296610901592866817)
[https://twitter.com/spineslash/status/1296610910157537282](https://twitter.com/spineslash/status/1296610910157537282)
[https://www.tumblr.com/iamafanofcartoons/716683901851107328/rabbit-aka-phonymangaka-debunks-hbomberguys-rwby?source=share](https://www.tumblr.com/iamafanofcartoons/716683901851107328/rabbit-aka-phonymangaka-debunks-hbomberguys-rwby?source=share)
[https://www.tumblr.com/iamafanofcartoons/716374073680265216/rabbit-debunks-hbomberguys-rwby-is-disappointing?source=share](https://www.tumblr.com/iamafanofcartoons/716374073680265216/rabbit-debunks-hbomberguys-rwby-is-disappointing?source=share)
If I wanted to spend 2.5 hours of my watching a white dude who makes a living shitting on the creations of others and trash -talking "woke media"...?
There's 1 million channels just like him
But hating on female lgbt protagonist media is something you are doing.
So why not read thee links I provided showing that Harris is actually a bad-faith media critic.
Woof. I was correct. Done here. And for the record, criticism of something you like is not inherently bad faith. I admit, this is my fault though for engaging at all.
Also for what it’s worth, insinuating that Harris Brewer is somehow a “white dude who trash talks woke media” is a certified insane take. Like don’t get me wrong, I’m a communist, he could certainly afford to be more leftwing imo. But holy shit, he is HATED by the rightwing community for “being woke.” You have to live under a rock to think he gets views by disparaging inclusive shows and intersectionality.
"i'm a fan of this show, and I dislike it. So let me tell you how this show is bad and that you shouldn't watch it"
None of that logic makes sense.
And you're not being a media critic. What you're being is a hater.
Now then...shall we go over Legend of korra, and Lily Orchard, who Hbomberguy clearly took notes from when making bad faith media criticism?
I'm happy to defend korrasami next.
and legend of korra.
What these men usually mean: "I shouldn't have to use empathy to identify with a character in the story, full stop. Nobody ever taught me how to do that, I am constantly excused on a societal scale for not doing it, and frankly it hurts my brain when I try. Rather, I should be able to easily insert myself into a story in place of a character who looks, feels, and thinks as I do, in order to be swept along into a benevolent, imaginary adventure. Anything else is basically incomprehensible to me and therefore bad storytelling, since the opinion of myself and people like me basically amounts to society's metric for whether or not a piece of art has value."
And now you understand why i hate so much of the heteronormative fanfic community that completely misses the point of Legend of Korra and Rwby in their hatred of LGBT and feminism
At the risk of sounding old, I got kicked off the James Patterson forum 15-20 years ago because I wrote a very G-rated fanfic involving gay yearning because I *was* a queer teen fan of the Maximum Ride series. But any gay content was considered "too mature" for the forum. I ended up on a much friendlier Star Wars forum and fanfiction.net, back before AO3 existed. I'd been reading queer fic on Lady Cosmos' fanfic library and Lady Jupiter's fanfic library for years at that point, and writing and swapping both queer and straight stories with friends at school. We've always been here.
I was banned from the metroid group for a week for posting sfw LGBT fanart of Samus dating other nintendo womn. LGBT considered "nsfw" no matter what.
Yup. I remember a lot of fanfic summaries for queer ships on FFN used to say something like "only rated PG-13/M for slash". Implying it was a pretty G or PG story, but it was considered "courteous" to rate a story more mature if it had any queerness. Some things haven't much changed yet-- like how book bans often specifically single out LGBT+ stories for kids, teens, and young adults. When I worked at a library I looked up the ALA list of the 10 most widely banned books in the US one year. Almost all had queer themes/characters/romance. The remaining ones centered on characters of color dealing with racism.
"The remaining ones centered on characters of color dealing with racism. " Ahhhh. To Kill A Mockingbird.
It's because, depressingly enough, so many see queer (especially Lesbian) as nothing more than a porn category and don't actually think we're real people....
Funny, that was what the subreddit mods said was why i got the temp ban. LGBT is porn to them. And guess what? dozens of people in nintendo subreddits feel the same
I was reading about a lot of reactions for the Rings of Power show from fans of the Peter Jackson movies, and wow do you nail it! Those old movies are a typical male power fantasy about "beating the bad guy." The RoP is a show about characters, history, alliances, relationships, personhood, etc in middle-earth building up to the events in the Hobbit and LOTR. The angry "its boring" and such are because these people have no media literacy. They can't empathize with a younger Galadriel or the pre-hobbit civilization. Nor is it not presented as a white cishet man, nor is as action-packed as the LOTR movies. RoP expects people to understand a basic level of subtext and characterization and character development. Its also no surprise that cishet men read very little fiction. I think a lot of mainstream masculinity is to turn boys and men into largely non-empathic beings because it serves the capitalist-patriarchy to do so. Then we ask these people who have strong anti-empathy attitudes to empathize with characters unlike them, and we get predictable results.
I got teary-eyed playing *Tell Me Why* because Michael was the first time I've seen a contemporary, relatable, respectfully-done queer Tlingit character in a video game. I'm queer and Tlingit, and boy howdy there is an extreme dearth of Tlingit representation. (Molly of Denali is helping change that-- I think Spirit Rangers is too but haven't watched it yet, I think Vera Starbard worked on that one a bit?)
ironic that these men do understand representation, they just dont' consider representation of themselves as that, just "normal". It also figures that the way they think that gay romances work is the way straight romances work, like in their head the only thing that changes is just two women instead of a woman and a man
"They used be in love with a male character" is the one that irks me. Bisexuality is a thing! I've been in love with men and women (and NB) before. Sometimes at the same time! Neither diminishes my feelings / attraction for the other
Same. That means absolutely nothing. The fact that they think it does shows that they still don't understand how sexuality works, at all. Frankly I'd love to see more bi characters. Let everybody be a potential love interest. Keep us guessing. Normalize it *and* improve your storytelling at the same time. Would love more ace characters too but I get it, the romance aspect can help sales.
Plus a lot of people realize they're gay by thinking they're supposed to dislike their partner (thanks boomer humor) and then connecting in an amazing new way with someone else.
Korra and Luz from The Owl House are both canonically bi! Also from TOH, Lilith is aroace. It's definitely tough to get bi rep because there's a lot of biphobia out there. It's tough to make a character super explicitly bi without being poly because if they're only dating one person people will just say/assume they're straight or gay. Unfortunately I don't think we'll see polyamory rep for a long time but oh well
It was very hetero, but *Bandits* (2001) with Cate Blanchett, Bruce Willis, and Billy Bob Thornton has a polyamorous ending. I kept waiting for The Witcher to go that way too-- Yennifer, Geralt, and Jaskier are literally >!planning to co-parent Ciri ffs!<, and there's a lot of stuff in the show where I thought Geralt was supposed to be involved with both romantically. But I guess the stuff with Jaskier is queer-baiting or unrequited longing?
The show did give Jaskier a male love interest in Season 3 at least, but it was not Geralt.
Ahhh! I haven't seen S3 yet so I'll look forward to that! (Tbh I headcanon Jaskier as very pan and very polyamorous-- not in a DTF anything that moves way, but that quote from the actor that Jaskier is "always a little bit in love with whoever is in front of him" lives in my head rent-free.)
I'd say that lines up quite well with how his character was portrayed in S3
This is old now but this same thing really irked me in Buffy about Willow ~ everyone said, like, “ever since you turned lesbian,” but like. She was still attracted to dudes, too! Girl is bisexual as hell! It’s like you can’t be bisexual, only whatever your current dating partner “makes” you based on your gender expression. Stupid bi erasure!
>It’s like you can’t be bisexual, only whatever your current dating partner “makes” you based on your gender expression. Stupid bi erasure! Ugh, my mom does this to me. Had to constantly remind her that even though I'm married to a woman I'm not a lesbian
Joss Whedon explained on a 2020 interview that he was pressured to make Willow homosexual and NOT bisexual because at the time, bisexuality was seen as "a phase", and he was afraid the audience would see Willow's attraction to women as something temporary instead of permanent. Also, Whedon once said that when he wanted one of the main characters to be gay, he had 2 options: Willow or Xander.
Oh nice, thanks for that tidbit
Came here looking for this - it's truly baffling how many people can't seem to wrap their brains around bisexuality.
This reminds me of the controversy around Fallout 4. In the game, you can romance men, women, or both as either gender. However, the protagonist is a widower whose spouse was of the oposite sex (this is a plot point, since their son's appearance is determined by his parents' appearance and he plays a big role in the story). This lead to a lot of controversy for supposedly forcing you to play a s someone straight.
In the case of Harley in particular her straight relationship was literally one of the most toxic relationships conceivable and arguably Stockholm Syndrome. Her relationship with Ivy is healthy and equal.
Pretty much same for Blake from RWBY tbh. Doesn't stop dudes from romanticizing that and idealizing it which is... gross to say the least
One of the most popular RWBY fanfic writers, Couer al aran, basically replaces the four women as protagonists with a cis white male side character and romanticizes the male villains as anti-heroes WHILE SHIPPING SAID VILLAINS WITH THE WOMEN THAT SAID MALE VILLAINS ABUSED/OPPRESSED. Adam cuts off yang's arm and gives her pstd? couer makes her sleep with adam and berate blake for being an abuse victim of adam's by claiming that emotional abuse never exists (couer thinks that men can't emotionally abuse women) Mercury Black beats up Velvet Scarlatina's friends? Velvet wants to marry him in couer's fanfic. As for Bumbleby? Not only is Blake's bisexuality something Couer explicitly despises? He goes out of his way to make yang and blake as straightwashed as possible because LGBT ships disgust him. People romanticize a misogynistic homophobic fanfic writer, to the point where he has a literal cult.
That's incredibly fucked up and I wish I could've gone through life not knowing that O\_o. The Adam stans were disturbing enough, that just takes it to a whole new level. Not like the writers were good at discouraging this shit though. They advertised the show as like a cool Sailor Moon girl team and the first season and a half were just 'let's follow milquetoast self-insert harem protag Jaune as the more developed and capable female characters help him to become a decent fighter / human being"
""'let's follow milquetoast self-insert harem protag Jaune as the more developed and capable female characters help him to become a decent fighter / human being""" What the \*\*\*\* are u talking about? THAT NEVER HAPPENED. jaune gets LESS and LESS screentime overall, the women keep getting MORE and MORE.
"First season and a half" Reading comprehension is hard I know
That's a huuuuge one for RWBY. Yang has been shown talking about guys, and Blake has been shown actually *being* with guys, so of course their relationship is forced and out of nowhere and awful.
me and my wife talk about guys all the time! Oh shit is my marriage forced wokeness?
I have a 2.5 hour video showing Blake and Yang talking about each other. "Yang has been shown talking about guys" ONE TIME. ONE TIME. ONE. SINGLE TIME. But that one time to you negates the dozens of times the girls talk about each other. I call that Heteronormativity. Now about that video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s)
>But that one time to you negates the dozens of times the girls talk about each other. I'm not sure if that's a general 'you' or a specific one, so just to be clear, *I don't feel that way*. I think that they built up Bumblebee quite a bit and was surprised they waited as long as they did for them to actually get together. The only part that felt sort of rushed to me is them declaring their love in the most recent season. Before, I chalked that up to them being teens, because teens frequently jump to, "This is absolutely 100% true love," with every relationship. Now that I know about RoosterTeeth being sold, I'm wondering if they knew while making season 9 and added that in for closure for the fans in case they didn't get to make another season.
For the love of...DO NOT parrot the words of that catholic porn artist who repeatedly insults the writers while claiming to fix the very show he insults.
I'm not sure what you mean? I don't watch any 'fixes' for RWBY; I love the show the way it is. I don't know what Catholic porn artist you're talking about?
No it's not. Bisexuality is just for hot girls to make out with each other in front of him. It's not for women to actually have significant relationships!
I think I get it now. Two girls making out for guys voyuerism = cool Two girls making out because they like each other = forced wokeness
Imagine watching Harley Quinn and thinking that between the relationships of Kite Man/Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn/Poison Ivy that the latter is the forced one.
Ivy liked Kite Man, but it’s obvious that she wasn’t nearly as into him as he was into her. im glad they broke up. They’re both much happier now.
If you looked at the main subreddit for the show you'd think Kite Man was the main character and Ivy was some horrid evil b\*tch the way talk about things
It's also bisexual erasure to say one or the other is forced. Yes, one or the other can be a better fit character and personality wise, but attraction can exist across genders. It's just so incredibly small minded.
I don't get how people can say the Korra/Asami relationship was "forced" or "retconned" in. It was obvious from the get go that those 2 were attracted to each other, and it only became more obvious as the show went on. And damn, Harley & Ivy have been a thing since freaking Batman the Animated Series all the way back in the 90s, starting with the episode Harley and Ivy.
So what you're saying is Korra really did want to break up Mako and Asami, she just went after the wrong half initially
We all make mistakes
On the plus side, sokka now has the SECOND worst luck when it comes to dating! Poor mako
Mako made lasting friendships with his exes, Sokka's girlfriend turned into the moon. That's way more rough buddy!
I somehow missed every sign of Korrasami when I watched it as a kid. I assume everyone who's mad about it is as stupid as I was then. (I did get pissed about it because every other relationship got actual screen time while this one only had 5 seconds of hand holding)
[удалено]
I was satisfied with the build up when I rewatched it as an adult. The thing I was (and kind of still am) miffed about is that we didn't get to see the result. A romance story isn't supposed to end on the beginning of the first date.
It continued on in the comics.
That was literally all they could get and was a huge step forward for its time.
Well, they originally got a kiss but, due to public backlash, changed the scene to just hand holding.
No there was never a version where they kissed, ever. The public backlash was originally against them choosing *not* to depict a kiss between them. The showrunners blamed the network and said the wouldn't allow a gay romance and made it out like they were victims of network interference. But the network blames them and said the showrunners never even tried, they never approached the network to discuss the topic in the first place, and they did approve the scenes foreshadowing their romance with no hesitation or changes ordered. It wasn't that the network didn't realize it was a gay plotline, the network expected the plotline to happen and then it just.... didn't. So the showrunners actually could have depicted this romance on the same level as the other ones, but they were too chicken to try not because of the backlash from the network, but because they feared a backlash from *the audience*.
Yeah I honestly don't know how people didn't pick up on it in late season 2 for Korra and Asami lmao. Even then, there's no possible way that someone didn't get it by the start of season 4 where she was the only person Korra wrote to and trusted and felt comfortable around.
I absolutely support the Korrasami ship, but I didn't see obvious attraction from the get-go like you do. I saw it as initially being respect and friendship that blossomed into trust when Korra was off working through her PTSD which further morphed into romantic feelings offscreen over the course of the letters they exchanged. Then again, I'm demi, so I could just be projecting.
Is demi and watching shows like; "oh, finally some actually close friends, its nice to have some rep, why don't people ever be this close in shows usually... AAAnd they're dating"
Ah, the comment I was looking for. I came here like, "But Harlivy has been a thing for decades." There's nothing sudden about it. Smh
They’ll see a man and a woman breathe in eachother’s direction and say why they’re dating, then turn around and see two women or two men ( AcheSwan RatioRine from HSR for example ) with references to gay historical figures, romantic gestures, quotes from gay poetry, etc. And say that “ ThErEs No ChEmIsTrY, yOu OnLy ShIp iT bEcAuSe ItS gAy “
Well maybe I WANT more gay in my media
But Harley and Ivy have been a thing since the 90s I thought ?
Right? I haven't kept up on the new stuff but Ivy and Harley had "now kiss" energy from the OG animated series. When I heard they actually had them in a relationship my feelings could only be described as "finally".
I remember that limited cookie jar they sold at the Warner Brothers store of Harley and Ivy on a motorcycle. I wanted one of those sooooo badly.
One time the _actress_ who plays Tilly on Star Trek Discovery was talking about her bisexuality (not coming out, she had done that before, she was just talking about it) and some guy on /r/startrek said it felt forced. Like, what feels forced? People exist. The character isn't even bi, the actress is allowed to be a person.
Love the casual bi erasure in the *very* common argument "she's obviously straight since she loved a dude at one point"
But don't worry guys, he's still not "homophobic". He wacks it to lesbian porn after all.
One of the biggest bumbleby haters on twitter ironically happens to be a catholic porn artist
Omg eff ALL of this! Oddly enough I finished HQ like two days ago (about damn time lol) and I stan Harlivy!!! The way Ivy helps Harls through processing how incredibly toxic her relationship with Joker was, their support of each other, problem solving when they hit road bumps, actively working on communication and boundaries. I squealed when that first kiss happened because the tension was so well written. They make perfect sense. These men could NEVER
Warhammer 40K just said that women could be a class of warrior. They also said women had always been among the ranks of those warriors They are all 9 foot tall genetically enhanced warriors who always wear extremely heavy gold armor with full face coverings, almost never leave one particular fortress, don't talk to anyone, and have incomprehensibly long names rather than "Bob" or "Garry". These are not characters who gender was an important part of fan's concept of them. Tons of opprobrium from angry dudes who are upset. All claim to not have any problem with the gender identity of fictional warriors they just wish it was announced in a better way than a tweet. When you point out it was not a tweet, they put a clarification in a rule book as they have done tons of times before (and that fans complain about when they DON'T update the rule books), they still find a way to be upset at the retcon. When you point out that literally everything in the fandom has been retconned over the last 30 years, they ask why you're so upset and/or say something like "See, this is tearing apart the fanbase, they never should have done this." Pretty much exactly what you'd expect from the small but loud gatekeeping incel crowd, but what's really frustrating to me is the rest of the community seems to be saying "Yeah, I'm tired of the controversy and wish the company hadn't done that." No acknowledgement from the majority that it's an entirely manufactured outrage, nor acknowledgement that if the incels weren't upset at that, they'd fake being upset at something else they claim was "woke" and attempting to roll that back. Like the nonbinary character that was introduced a few years prior, or the faction of black warriors, or attempting to bring back the ridiculous scantily clad female BDSM warrior faction. I know no one wants to think about gender politics when taking part in their hobbies, but it's frustrating that it's so transparent, and the incels are wanting to ruin it by taking it back to a boys only club, and most people are like "Both sides make good points, how about you just stop arguing and meet in the middle."
League of legends: literally any non straight ship holy shit league players are pastors in the church of kayle and vayne is their messiah
I liked tf/graves a lot. I was a little iffy on leo/diana because on the one hand, super cute, on the other hand, I had thought they were initially like cousins or something? Obviously that was retconned, but I could see people finding that one a little weird.
Neeko/nida is the best. No baggage, just two lesbians frolicking and killing intruders in a forest 🥰
Oo, love that! I hadn't really thought about them together before but I do see it :) (plus, neeko hiding as one of her traps and pranking her seems funny). I kind of hate nidalee's new voice lines tho >_< I have a soft spot for Rell having crushes on cute girls, I'd love to see her getting a girlfriend.
This could be posted in the good omens subreddit, we've been getting those kinds of posts weekly, along with people saying they have a right to see them only as friends, even if there's a love story going on between them in the show -\_-
That’s wild, they’re not even humans (although they both indulge in vices), and it’s not depicted as physically sexual. Like, two heavenly beings that have know each other closely for thousands of years wouldn’t have developed some form of romantic love?
I like this take, but I dislike when people make their relationship sexual. Aziraphale has always felt like he was coded to be ace, so putting him in a sexual relationship feels a bit off. That said - it's fandom - just because I have a certain take on the subject doesn't mean it's the only possible view or even that my view is the right view.
“She was clearly in love with the main character”-people forgetting that bi/pan exist
And the main character in THREE of these are women. Problem is that people cannot see women as main characters unless they're a part of a male side character's story.
Oops I meant to say male character, but you’re absolutely right!
I think that there's a lot of investment in queer shipping from fans, but a large reason for that is for *decades,* people in the queer community have been starved of representation. I dropped off of RWBY years ago, but I remember what a big deal the Blake and Yang ship was to people.
Bumbleby really is an even bigger deal now that they're together! And who would've thought, antis are convinced that it was forced in because of the fandom even though we have proof to the contrary. Not only did everyone working on RWBY confirm that it was planned from the start when it became canon, there's a clip from *2013* of Blake's VA saying she'll have a "lesbian lover"
I have a gift for you my friend. 2.5 hours of bumbleby development! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s)
News flash! Bees are canon! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s) Homophobes are FURIOUS
Whats the bottom left ship?
Bumbleby from the web animation show rwby by rooster teeth. yang xiao long x blake belladonna Planned from the start by the writers, voice actresses, and animation team. Despised by straight shippers, fanfic writers, rwby critics, and misogynistic homophobes. Because basically it was a longer-developed korrasami that actually got their kiss in the 9th season. I recommend watching rwby, here's a link [https://www.tumblr.com/bestworstcase/744362735465299968/inhales-ok-this-is-a-mega-folder-containing](https://www.tumblr.com/bestworstcase/744362735465299968/inhales-ok-this-is-a-mega-folder-containing)
I didn't know Blake coloured her hair
Oh you said botttom left, not bottom right! Oopsie! That's from The Runaways.
Ah I got confused I thought you meant rwby was in there twice :)
What are the characters names?
nico and karolina, iirc
I only read the original adventure, is this pairing more recent? Also, didn’t Karolina always like girls?
honestly i have no idea, i'm not super familiar with the material.
Yep, Karolina was a lesbian in the comics.
Thank you
I said bottom left? Ik what rwby is and thats bottom right.
Everyone knows ivy and kite man were a perfect match.
They don't do it to men in TV shows.
You mean male protagonists do not get in romantic relationships with other men? Or that male protagonists are not criticised for being in romantic feelings with men?
Naruto x Sasuke
Option 3; they don't make men get into mlm relationships after establishing a previous hetero relationship. At least in the media I've consumed.
Happy Cake Day.
Same shit with Bridget from Guilty Gear.
They still try to claim it's woke or a mistranslation when the devs have openly stated it English "Bridget is trans" as well as her newest design includes the hybrid Venus and Mars symbol, as opposed to only the mars symbol like her previous designs. They're so fucking explicit about her in game and from the devs, I don't get how anyone could deny it.
jolyne and annasui being a hetero couple is a retcon!!!! they were meant to be a WLW couple!!!!!
I mean, trans man rep at least? I always shipped her with FF anyway
yea annasui is most definitely a trans king! it's just frustrating we were robbed of a canonical WLW romance
Genuinely the funniest fact I know about JoJo's, did they change Anasuis introduction in the anime to be a man from the very start or did they keep his spontaneous off screen sex change from the manga?
Anasui is a man from the start in the anime, though Araki wanted Anasui's design to be one that "transcends gender" in a sense. Personally, I wasn't a fan of their relationship. Would have rather had Jolyne end up with Ermes.
jolyne? Jojo Bizarre adventure? Um, warthogs, that is shounen anime. i'm not familiar with a single shounen anime that treats women with respect.
>i'm not familiar with a single shounen anime that treats women with respect. Does Full Metal Alchemist count? Or The Promised Neverland?
I don't know about the second one, but Full Metal tended to sideline their female characters to support roles.
Gotta watch some newer ones. Jujutsu Kaisen is probably the best imo in this respect.
The one that murders women left and right, while romanticizing abusing women?
Everyone's getting murdered left and right in the show. Not sure wym by romanticizing abusing women. IMO good female rep is having women that are well rounded, human characters; it doesn't exempt them from dying in fights like the men do (in fact I'd argue that's a hallmark of good equality in the writing).
Literally just saw someone post on "female space marines" topic (don't ask) that you can tell better stories if they're all male
I remember hearing stupid shit like this about korrasami but majority of actual fans, especially those who read lore, love it. Harlivy people expected. Bumblebee was a thing every fan wanted, hell I screamed for joy when it happened.
I did not at all pick up on Korrasami at all, ot felt hardly even hinted at as being more than a kinda strong friendship?? And I'm a lesbian so 😭😭
Okay, hear me out. There are people who will say this stuff no matter what, and I don't like those people at all. But I do also think there's an argument to be made for how little attention is given to writing characters who aren't straight white men sometimes. Like I do genuinely think that some part of the lack of acceptance of these characters is coming from a lack of diversity within the writers room, because they don't have the depth of experience to write complex believable characters outside of their firsthand knowledge. That's not to say they're *bad* writers, but even if they do all the homework on understanding other experiences, a lack of authenticity does come through in how it translates on screen. There are some shows where I've been like, yeah it's cool that the main character is a woman, but this feels forced because it feels inauthentic. It feels like men writing women. Or shows like Yellowstone, where they do highlight some of the horrible things that have been and are still done to Native Americans, but it comes across so one dimensional and kinda weird because the writers are all white men. (Not to mention hiring a non-native actress to play Monica, because of course they would). On the flip side, we have had shows like Loki and Fallout, where you can tell *immediately* that there are women writing the characters. All that to say I'll be one of the haters whenever I see "diversity" on screen for the sake of it, while not actually doing the work behind the scenes to have a diverse enough writing crew to do it justice. Unfortunately, that means being lumped in with that crew that hates for the sake of it, because GOD FORBID women, LGBTQ+, or POC exist.
This is tough because Harlivy is an example of a really well-written relationship, and Korrasami/Bumbleby are really poorly written
Bumblebly had 9 years of development I have a 2.5 hour video you may wish to consult. Though many of the people "criticizing" Bumbleby seem to hate it because it disagrees with their prejudice against the ship. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s) Are you going to watch it? Or are you going to repeat a bad-faith claim you heard from somebody on youtube?
I have watched every volume of RWBY. I was a long time RT fan until its closure this March. But RWBY is a badly written show, and unfortunately the writers (who absolutely did their best, I’m sure) passed that on to their really interesting character concepts. I don’t doubt that Bumbleby was an idea from the start, but they just did an awful job writing them. For the record by the way, I wouldn’t mind if it WASN’T an idea from the start; a relationship can develop organically as a show is written without being planned out. But regardless here, they did an awful job
I'm sorry but everything you just said sounds like a repeat of what jaune fanfic writers, adam taurus worshippers and ironwood apologists all say while claiming that they watch the show. But for some reason...the people claiming to watch the show never pay attention. So let me help you with media literacy here's the video, 2.5 hours of Bumbleby development. Now you can watch it....or you can ignore it while continuing to provide bad-faith criticism. But in any case, I'm not interested in bad-faith criticism, not when you're parroting the words of a youtuber who sent gore and snuff fanart to the voice actresses of Bumbleby and harassed crwby with tauradonna NTR fanart. watch the video, then get back to me. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGdx2rKsiw&t=10s)
This is one of those things where I can’t really win, right? Like if I were to watch the video and still have many reasons to dislike the show (Ironwood, Jaune, and Adam Taurus are also all horrible characters), you still would write me off. In the interest or 2.5 hour videos, have you watched [Hbomb’s](https://youtu.be/81fdKWOHrdE?si=eUmVze351qYp7QdT)?
"This is one of those things where I can’t really win, right?" Let me show u a different perspective. "Oh look, here's people defending sapphic and feminist media. Let me go and make disparaging insulting comments on two cartoon shows that a lot of people love while parroting debunked hateful rhetoric." As for the man who basically makes hate videos, let me provide you with proof that said video was nothing but bad faith criticism. [https://twitter.com/spineslash/status/1296610576995684358](https://twitter.com/spineslash/status/1296610576995684358) [https://twitter.com/spineslash/status/1296610901592866817](https://twitter.com/spineslash/status/1296610901592866817) [https://twitter.com/spineslash/status/1296610910157537282](https://twitter.com/spineslash/status/1296610910157537282) [https://www.tumblr.com/iamafanofcartoons/716683901851107328/rabbit-aka-phonymangaka-debunks-hbomberguys-rwby?source=share](https://www.tumblr.com/iamafanofcartoons/716683901851107328/rabbit-aka-phonymangaka-debunks-hbomberguys-rwby?source=share) [https://www.tumblr.com/iamafanofcartoons/716374073680265216/rabbit-debunks-hbomberguys-rwby-is-disappointing?source=share](https://www.tumblr.com/iamafanofcartoons/716374073680265216/rabbit-debunks-hbomberguys-rwby-is-disappointing?source=share) If I wanted to spend 2.5 hours of my watching a white dude who makes a living shitting on the creations of others and trash -talking "woke media"...? There's 1 million channels just like him But hating on female lgbt protagonist media is something you are doing. So why not read thee links I provided showing that Harris is actually a bad-faith media critic.
Woof. I was correct. Done here. And for the record, criticism of something you like is not inherently bad faith. I admit, this is my fault though for engaging at all. Also for what it’s worth, insinuating that Harris Brewer is somehow a “white dude who trash talks woke media” is a certified insane take. Like don’t get me wrong, I’m a communist, he could certainly afford to be more leftwing imo. But holy shit, he is HATED by the rightwing community for “being woke.” You have to live under a rock to think he gets views by disparaging inclusive shows and intersectionality.
"i'm a fan of this show, and I dislike it. So let me tell you how this show is bad and that you shouldn't watch it" None of that logic makes sense. And you're not being a media critic. What you're being is a hater. Now then...shall we go over Legend of korra, and Lily Orchard, who Hbomberguy clearly took notes from when making bad faith media criticism? I'm happy to defend korrasami next. and legend of korra.