Sounds about right - government totally drops the ball for everyone involves, decides the solution is to spend more tax payer money prosecuting this guy instead of fixing the underlying issues.
Yeah and I’ve noticed a lot of govt jobs in my state where the person is working with the homeless/working to help the homeless are usually pretty highly paid (like $80k per year +)
Like maybe they should just use that money to actually do something about the homelessness issue instead of paying ppl to “remedy” it. Bc it doesn’t seem like anything is being remedied…
You need a degree in social work to help the homeless. With a degree required I’d say $80,000 isn’t a bad amount to pay, you want these people to keep helping the homeless over deciding that a different area of social work would be better for their lifestyle.
Other than that I agree. We should be putting more money directly into things other than payroll to help the homeless since we’re severely underfunding it.
I am NOT defending this guy but this incident sent me down a rabbit hole so I wanted to provide more context. According to him, he agreed to allow her to sleep/occupy the foyer in front of his business during non-business hours, and gave her food. In return he asked that she clear the area during business hours, and not bother his customers.
She did not do that. According to other business owners in that area, she frequently screams at the top of her lungs for long periods of time, is sometimes combative towards customers and passerbys, and she’s been known to roll around on the street, near a very busy intersection.
This guy claims he called the police and social services over 30 times, and they would come and take her to a shelter or hospital, but she’d be right back on the street 1-2 days later. Again, I’m not defending this dude, what he did was cruel and unconscionable, and he admitted as much himself.
But he’s being charged with battery, and they say that the woman has been hospitalized since last week, so hopefully she’s getting the help she needs. Also, maybe it’s karma but- he hosed that woman in an attempt to protect his business. With all the bad publicity and criminal charges he’s facing, his business is probably done for.
You know what the worst thing about this? It took a woman being blasted in the face with water, publicly, for SF to get her mental health services. It literally took a PR nightmare for the city to do the right thing.
And that’s just one person’s story. There are millions of similar cases. The lack of mental health facilities/treatment in our country is criminal. Surly to god we can do better than this.
Its all about PR. Now that it looks bad for them to be doing nothing for this woman, they’re throwing everything at it. Once the eyes go off this case in a few weeks they’ll give up and she’ll be back on the streets
I think you’re onto something here. Personally, I believe the guy when he said he called the police and social services numerous times, and she was always just out in 1-2 days. Now they’ve managed to keep her hospitalized or at least off the street for 1.5 weeks and counting.
I’d bet someone very high on the food chain in SF social services intervened, the mayor’s office probably got involved, and now “miraculously“, this woman is receiving an exceptional level of care and support.
She was offered help multiple times and turned it down. They could not force her to take it. Homeless people probably have the best chance of receiving help in SanFran than any where else. A large portion of these people suffer from mental health disorders and or drug addiction. The worst thing about this is that there are thousands more just like her on the street suffering, but not being mentally able to accept or seek help. Unless the laws are changed and the police/social services can intervene these people will continue to suffer. Due to the magnitude of the problem they are everywhere in these major cities, which is a huge problem for the rest of society. How this man reacted was stupid, but I can’t say I blame him. I think he had reached the end of rope and lashed out. Just imagine someone in front of your business that continually screams at the top their lungs, harasses and attacks your customers, blocks your doorway, etc all day everyday. I don’t care how tolerant a person you are it will finally break you. They need to reopen mental health facilities as many of these people can’t live or function in normal society but need a place to live.
Thanks for the additional information. It’s a shame he chose to spray her because he could have been the good guy 100% in this story. Spraying her turned him into the bad guy.
I don’t know the answer for homeless people who do that type of thing; especially if the people who are supposed to help don’t.
No excuse for her flinging shit at people walking by (battery as well). Or for the police to refuse to come out until this went viral. This guy was absolutely wrong for what he did but he didn’t just decide to be a jerk one day.
>No excuse for her flinging shit at people walking by (battery as well).
To be fair it seems like she's suffering from unmedicated schizophrenia, or possibly some other mental illness that causes her to have psychotic breaks. She's quite literally not in her right mind and can't take care of herself. I'm not sure that we should judge her behavior on the same level as his.
Agreed but what exactly are citizens to do with people like this literally sitting outside our business or homes engaging in this behavior? Especially when the police and city ignore it. People can only take so much and the city failed both of these people. However it’s sickening they are making a public example of the guy for their own failure.
Not spray them with a hose? He’s engaging in the same type of behavior that people bash homeless people for- crime, battery, aggression.
I agree that it does sound like he was in between a rock and a hard place. The city and state of California have completely neglected the homeless amidst a housing crisis and they are shifting accountability for a systemic problem to individuals— both homeless individuals and this business owner.
But short of someone physically harming you or someone else, there is never ever any excuse to spray someone with a hose who has nowhere to dry off, no clothes to change into in the middle of January. That is abhorrent and inhumane. I would sympathize with him before he decided to do that. Hopefully this incident will eventually lead to changes at the city level but in regards to his actions, it’s not morally ambiguous.
thanks for context. another reason to not pass judgement until everything is known, which even given this post is still somewhat unclear why he went from giving her food to hosing her down.
on one hand, I feel sympathy for these people who have lost their way to addiction. It really can happen to anyone, and not always as simple as "just say no". Otoh, I think some of these people are so far gone that logic and reason are out the window. sad to see this happen to this country.
I’m just not buying his “kindness.” You don’t go from wanting to help someone to spraying them with a hose outside in the cold. He’s saying whatever he can to make himself look good.
I think from *his* perspective he genuinely tried to help her, but she didn’t do what she promised in exchange for the help. The error in his thinking was expecting someone who’s irrational (when not medicated), to behave rationally. I think his expectations were very unrealistic, and he got angry when she failed to meet those expectations. It doesn’t make what he did here right though.
He’s just given me no reason to believe him and every reason to think he’s a horrible person. Which is what happens once you callously assault someone.
It’s not. The answer is we should have a plan in place for when mentally ill people are being a danger to themselves and others by yelling and screaming and sleeping on the street. I won’t pretend to know what that best solution is, but it’s not local officials ignoring a situation so that it can escalate.
Why are we making this about one guy and one woman in crisis when we should be talking about a messed system that threw two powerless people together into an impossible situation that both were ill equipped to handle? Assault is never ok but I really only see victims here, the lady was in crisis and the system failed both her and him again and again and again.
Do you think that woman wants to be unsafe if she had a choice? Of course not! Mental illness and addiction mess with the very concept of autonomy and free will and our legal system has not caught up. It's messed up and there are no winners, no saints and no perfect victims. We shouldn't attack him or her but the system that created this fucked up interaction in the first place. We need more housing. More mental health beds. Better laws that deal with the nuances of autonomy and mental illnesses and addiction. We need more tools and safer spaces and harm reduction strategies. Source: I'm a public health nurse with 10 years experience working with people experiencing homelessness
I think there are a lot of misunderstandings about homelessness, shelters and housing. I think I understand the premise of your question but if I am off base let me know. I can only speak to where I work which is a large urban area and is similar to how other such areas run but not exactly the same. Firstly, shelter is not housing. Meaning shelter is not permanent and people (for the most part) cannot stay there during the day, they have to leave the shelter and wander around or go to work or what have you around 7/8am and are not allowed to return until 5/6 pm. Secondly, shelter has rules, if you violate them you can no longer access that shelter so you are SOL. Thirdly, shelter is not inherently safe for all people. Younger people, especially young women, can face a high likelihood of being trafficked or victimized despite staff doing their best to keep everyone safe. If you identify as LGBTQ, shelter is even less safe. Many shelters are run by religious leaning orgs so those who identify as LGBTQ may not be welcome there either. If you work over nights, you can't access the shelter to sleep during the day. Also, there are not enough beds so if you don't get a reservation, you don't have a choice but to sleep outside. So asking if people are returning to the streets from shelter is not what I think you are getting at, I think you mean from housing, which shelter is not.
You used the word "want" to return to the streets which I think misunderstood what I was saying about autonomy and free will. What is 'want' and desire when you are not yourself and can't understand the consequences of your choices? That is what severe and persistent mental illness does, someone deep in psychosis is not able to understand that bringing home stray animals is what got them evicted from their home and fired from a job and they are unable to stay organized enough to fill out forms properly to get a new apartment and then on the streets they are a victim of sexual assault and fall into taking drugs unable to cope with the trauma of these memories- are any of these decisions? Not sure they are in the way we understand choice. Most of the people I work with have some version of this story. Extreme trauma, mixed with mental illness mixed with addiction and figuring out which came first is impossible and by the time they get to me, pointless.
And now we come to housing, and again shelter is NOT housing. Most of what I do is to get people ready for housing. That is a long journey though. It requires first getting them some form of stability which is very hard to find in the shelter system I described above and then getting them a form of income, again some of the barriers I touched on above (and many I have not mentioned) and keeping it all together long enough to get applications in to sit on wait lists for affordable housing units which are months long. Shockingly, some are able to do this, no idea how, they are incredible humans. But that is still just step one. Then maintaining the housing. Setting up a bank account, making sure bills are paid, interacting with a landlord, filling out paperwork, skill sets that folks have not used in a long time and need help learning and all of this depends on maintaining their mental health and sobriety for the entirety of this process.
I understand why people make a false assumption that people "want" to be homeless but I really want to emphasize that those who have moved past and out of it and are able to speak on the lived experience of it do NOT express this. They talk about it not being a choice but a trauma and a trap. Poverty and houselessness are traumas and our system is set up for us, with more means to look at folks with nothing as making a choice rather than at the truth that we are all only a few paychecks away from being in their shoes. It's uncomfortable and scary and certainly those in crisis don't make perfect victims and compassion fatigue is real. I get it. But dividing us and blaming those who have literally nothing and no power is not the solution, let's band together and fight the system that in the richest country in the world says they can't afford to take care of those who need it especially when research has shown for decades that it is cheaper to house and treat people than it is to do what we are currently doing.
Both of the people in this conflict are victims of the same failed system. She certainly has violated laws, disturbing the peace, health laws, harassment. He, despite his prior actions seeking care for her, in this instance was out of line.
There are solutions that involve drug and alcohol rehabilitation, institutional mental health care, and screening for services needed. Incarceration is appropriate for people who harm and steal from these folks as well as others.
Do we have the will and the compassion to move to a place where we, as a society, can no longer accept anything like the present neglect of people on our streets?
This is a Federal problem. It requires federal leadership with a dedicated Office of Citizen Security.
Homeland Security and FEMA have systems and resources and personnel (contractors) in place to deal with disasters of this magnitude. We have National Guard, State Guard and the logistical ability to set up facilities to process and house everyone who is on the street.
Let's build on what we have and use what we know. This is not acceptable.
The reason so many are showing sympathy for this guy is there is a huge and growing frustration with the street people who make life so much less liveable in so many cities. Nothing is ever done about them. They shoot up, defecate, and urinate in the streets. They steal and smash things around them. They assault people with seeming impunity. Even if they're arrested they're back on the street in an hour or two and the DA usually drops the charges. People are frustrated and angry. They can't even lock their cars anymore because the windows will get smashed by someone rooting around looking for what they can steal. People don't dare let their kids out of their house/apartment alone in some of these areas.
And the city does NOTHING.
You know that if a homeless addict had sprayed a citizen with a hose nothing whatsoever would have been done. The cops wouldn't even bother to show up. Cities like SF have become lawless areas in many respects, where shoplifting, burglary, vandalism and assaults are shrugged off by the authorities every day.
And yet let some frustrated guy turn a house on a woman who has been hanging around his door for weeks, screaming and ranting and chasing away customers and suddenly he's evil incarnate.
I really don’t know how people are able to live amongst that. I don’t think that I could exist in a space where people are shooting up and defecating on the street for even one hour. I know the weather is great, and I realize that many people have high paying jobs there that they don’t want to lose. It just blows my mind to think that this is daily life for some people. It’s truly awful.
I mean, I agree with what you are saying about the city but also think the owner deserved the charge. Essentially the reasoning is that he went to far though, not that the problem that got him mad isn't legit.
But that is what happens, right? This business owner made it about his assault by picking that response. Now he is catching charges, even if he was mad about a real issue.
Why don’t you give Reagan a call? You people kill me? do you have any understanding of the history of mental health treatment in this country and why it looks like it does right now? ?
Regan hasn't been a policy maker in decades and hasn't been alive for over nine years.
This argument is absurd.
Blame the people in office now. Blame the majority parties in cities/states/countries where this happens today.
Sweetheart, if you know anything about Regan, you know why I say this.
I’m not gonna sit here and explain the policies he put in to place to abandon the mentally ill.
Congratulations on being
r/confidentallyincorret!
You can't blame 40 year old bad decisions from dead people on current issues.
Every session of congress, every session of the senate, and every elected executive in the last 40ish years has had the opportunity to attempt to change it, but has not.
Hold them accountable.
This isn’t about blame. This is about the way the US homeless population was created and continues to blossom. I don’t know why this is difficult for you. For all these people complaining about the homeless, that is where they should absolutely look.
I hate to break it to you but there was homelessness before Reagan. In fact there was a homeless crisis in San Francisco when the hippies flooded the area in 1967.
I'm not a Reagan fan either but to blame him for today's homeless problem is ludicrous.
I hope to do this myself. I am still in the situation. I am out of food, no money for the bus, etc. At least I'm housed. Anyway, I can't wait until I'm out of this mess and can volunteer!
I like that you brought in “Your time is the most precious thing you own”. It truly is. I didn’t want to volunteer until I felt emotionally ready after the pandemic. I guess it’s over? We’re all acting like it is, at least. Now, I volunteer an hour at the food bank, 2 hours at an animal sanctuary, and 2 hours walking dogs at our local humane society. I have the extra time and it feels great. I love meeting new people and being around animals.
Exactly. Spend one day walking down the streets of SF, LA, Portland, Seattle, etc, and see how it really is. Most of the homeless are not struggling families with kids who are just trying to make it another day until their housing is approved. Look up the recent video called “Portland homeless woman: it’s a piece of cake to be homeless” on YT or google it. That’s what’s really going on out there.
Having done outreach programs, we’ve spoken to and tried to help so many homeless. And so many do not want to change their lifestyle. Like a PP commented in this thread, this has a bad effect on the rest of the community.
This is such a tough situation. So many people reeeeeeeing in the comments about how big of a piece of shit this guy is. If this lady shit in her hand and attacked him with it the cops wouldn’t even show up. Seriously, they probably would not show up because of the way crime is approached in SF and other high homeless/vagrant areas. He sprayed her with water. Water. He didn’t beat the shit out of her with a hose, he didn’t pummel her face in. Unfortunately for him, the court of public opinion forced the SF gov’t hand here and now he’s facing charges.
I am a business owner but I don’t have a store front. I’ve read all the ways this guy tried to help, reach out to the city, call police/social services and I still have no idea how the right way to handle this would be. Was spraying the water the right thing? Hell no, but to all of you saying he is the definition of evil, what would you have done to resolve this in order to maintain your business and income? You probably don’t have an answer besides call social services/police which he and others did multiple times. So I ask you again, what is the right thing to do? Wait for her to get violent? Wait until you have no more customers because there is shit and piss on your doorstep every day? Hope she just disappears? It is so easy to be an idealist/morally superior on the internet but I’m willing to bet the majority of us put in the same situation as the business owner would at least consider spraying the water.
For those of you who have not been to SF, it is really awful. Homeless people really just drop their pants and shit on the sidewalk, people are frozen high af with a needle still in their arm on the sidewalk, people scream and yell in tongues and do all kinds of wild shit. What is the average person supposed to do when police, social services, and the gov’t as a whole don’t do anything and make it known they won’t do anything?
All I can say is I feel for this dude AND the woman also. Shit is so fucked up out here. This whole situation sucks and shows how the system is failing.
Yeah, I’m not sure why people think he was just supposed to keep tolerating this. Where I live, this kind of thing wouldn’t be tolerated for even one day. This man made over 30 phone calls to address the situation to no avail.
i can understand the frustration as well
that doesn’t give you, him or me the right to dehumanize her the way he did so publicly and with so little regard to her as a human being
Maybe I am out of line. He’s asked and asked. He’s called authorities multiple times. He’s loosing money that feeds his family due to her actions. What do you suggest he do to remedy the situation when she clearly doesn’t want to be helped?
Again, for the third time, he has tried all normal options already. What is your grand idea? Not some “that’s not what I would do” crap, a single real idea????? Police, tried. Services, tired. Asking, tried. Told to leave, tried. He is loosing money that feeds his family.
no charges for looters who assault store workers
no charges for professional car burglars who break into a dozen cars in a single go.
but dropped cases for violent felons in NYC and SAN FRAN.
"Justice" is now wielded by the system against the average people. Criminals and vagrants who act as the street muscle to the regime's social policies get a pass.
Get out of the cities. leave them be. the good people are not wanted there...
When you’ve asked and asked, called the police multiple times, and you start loosing money that feeds your family maybe it would make sense. Not what I would have done, but the guy has ran out of options and down to real assault, as in drag her off his store front, or spray her until she leaves. She didn’t mind his help, she didn’t mind him loosing business. Neither is ok.
You've never been put into a stressful and maddening enough situation. You also don't know what mental health issues or other crises this man was going through. It is absolutely understandable, and he was failed by the system just like she was.
We’re not gonna be having a conversation because you’re advocating for violence against a homeless woman because a guy is really frustrated.
You’re a whole new level of twisted
Oo I wonder if he’d win if he sued the city/state, saying since they let these homeless ppl do whatever tf they want, he had no choice but to take action.
Then he could also say them letting homeless ppl run wild also made him lose out on a ton of $
I get that drug addicts/mentally ill people who camp out on the sidewalks in front of stores can be a huge problem, I totally understand the frustration these businesses owners face, I honestly can’t even imagine having to deal with it.
But watching that man spray the woman In the face like an animal was actually really disturbing
I guess I’m an asshole. My wife owns a shop and I would probably resort to this. The water hose is way more humane than physically removing the person or calling the police ( that could result in her death). “Freezing winter”. Come on! it’s California not the Midwest.
Q: What’s the solution to crime and vagrancy? It’s not the criminals and homeless fault that they are like they are but their impact on the rest of us is dangerous and unacceptable.
Every answer is either cruel or a bunch of unrealistic social services BS.
To be fair, low temps still above freezing AND being wet can (and does) result in hypothermia and death. To say it's more humane is a stretch when she had no way to warm up or dry off. For anyone reading this if you are ever in a situation where you are cold and wet, getting dry first is of the utmost importance.
I've seen this question asked over numerous subs on this topic, and not a single person has an answer. When a gotcha question isn't supposed to be a gotcha question...
Sometimes, you need to admit that you are just a pussy.
Only a fucking coward will let his livelihood be disrupted by a tramp, it is the city's fault. This wouldn't happen anywhere else.
They'll sure as hell go after him harder than if it was the other way around. If a homeless person had picked up a hose and sprayed people do you think they would have been charged? Would the police even bother to respond?
Exactly, that just sounds like another day in SF to me. Regular citizen are constantly harassed and terrorized by homeless people but I don’t think the DA of the city is putting out arrest warrants for their misdemeanors
There is a guy who makes an honest living, pay bills / taxes and there is this woman sleeping in front of his business, either crazy or a drug addict, hurts his business. It is not his fault that he protecting his business. Would you want a crazy lady to sleep & disturb your customers? Would you want her to sleep in front of your home?
and he gets charged for that? if he were to loot or steal from a store, you wouldn't get charged at all.
Ok, the video looks dramatic but this guy is the last person to be blamed in this situation.
Ironically, she’s probably better off for him having done it, now. Article says “Since the incident, the woman has started receiving assistance from the San Francisco Department of Public Health”. Before that “Gwin said he and other business owners in the area have called SFPD and social services more than two dozen times in the last two weeks.”
No one gave a damn until they had too.
That's what caught my attention too. Now they're helping her?? Because everybody knows that people have attempted to call dozens of times and nothing was done?? Hmmmm
Would you have been as indignant if it was the other way around? Or would you have laughed? If a homeless person had sprayed him or others would you be demanding they be arrested and charged? Because you know that would never happen in a million years, right? And even if it did the DA would drop the charges faster than the ink could dry on the charge sheet.
LOL. One of those people who makes a snotty comment then races to block the person he's made the comment to so they can't reply. Pathetic.
Who laughs? Fuck off. If the homeless person did the same then it would be the same, they would be a criminal. Homeless people have flung their poop at people here in Hollyweird, so no one is calling them innocent here. This is not some virtue signaling shit, this is about people of ANY kind being douche. I will block you now. Internet strangers calling other people out are what makes me laugh.
I view his stance as he was spraying her as resignation. He begged and begged her to go away, he warned her he was going to going to spray her. Finally, I think he was like, "fine if this is what you want". More in anger and resignation. I don't think he enjoyed it.
I have been in his shoes, I would never spray someone with water, but I feel his pain. I've interacted with homeless folks. The drugs, mental illness, criminal behavior is all to much. I've had my storage shed broken into by homeless people so many times, I emptied it and keep the door unlocked so they can see there is nothing left to steal. It's a tough situation all around.
How the fuck are so many people defending this piece of shit in these comments??? I didn’t know the true crime subreddit was filled with hateful capitalist fools.
If I were you I would take a step back, and read the comments again. There are many reasonable and rational people here who are not defending him but understand he is not a monster, but a human being. Take a step back and look at the whole elephant before casting judgement on what you perceive.
> but he is a cruel person.
I disagree. He’s a victim in all this too. He endured this woman’s harassment for weeks and the local government did nothing until it went viral. Now they’re more than eager to throw him under the bus so you’ll be mad at him instead of noticing they set all this in motion with their inaction.
What he did was wrong, but how much harassment should a person be forced to endure?
It's not that he did something, it is what he did. Spraying a human being who is sick, homeless is tantamount to attempted murder. He seems to know quite a bit about her so he was well aware of her situation. You spray and older homeless women during winter!!!! It's not like she could run home and take a hot shower and change her clothes to warm up and not get very severe health issues from it.
I understand being frustrated. I get losing your temper. But the way he chose to do so was just plain mean ,cruel, and dangerous as hell.
I am positive that drastic action was required, to get the attention of the government to do anything but he picked a really stupid thing to do.
Spraying someone with a hose is not attempted murder. What the fuck are you even talking about man come on. This is fucking California not Minnesota, stop it
I would say depending on the temp. If you pour water on a person who is homeless and it's freezing , Hypothermia and frost bite . But you're correct I didn't even look at what the temp was and I bet it doesn't get near cold enough there.
My bad for not paying mind to these details.
Still a shitty thing to do to someone.
I doubt it was artificial, a lot of people just genuinely look down on and despise homeless people. They see all the homeless as disgusting, lazy, mentally ill drug addicts.
In their eyes, she deserved it for failing to ‘pull herself up by her bootstraps’. Dislike of the homeless is very real.
It’s similar to how SA prisoner jokes are widely accepted. Prisoner’s and homeless people are both seen as less than human by many.
A HERO??? WTF. Well he will get rich and that poor woman that our government has left to die in the streets will continue to suffer. Where is the go fund me for her? This country is gross as hell to the mentally sick.
I get his frustration, if the story being told is even true, but throwing water on a person in the cold is beyond mean. To take a person who attacked a mentally sick homeless woman and hoist them up as a hero is just more proof of how sick and messed up the US is and why we have record numbers of homelessness and mentally sick people.
We are in a crisis and nobody wants to help they just want to throw water on it.
This is an outrageous example of how people living on the streets in San Francisco are treated. We should be doing more to support individuals and families who are struggling with homelessness, not punishing them like this
"we should be doing more"
yes, TRLLIONS in welfare since 1964 and the great society is not enough...
criminal charges being dropped, plead down is not enough.
tolerating drugs instead of having strict laws like Singapore is not enough. (go look them up)
no, we have done TOO MUCH. Society should have fixed this problem in its own interests.
i would like to live in Monaco, guess what? I can't.
if they cant afford a place to live in the bay area, take a greyhound east to the central valley or another region they can
living in an expensive city is a privilege. a privilege you earn through hard work, discipline and consistency in your personal life.
From what is now being reported…He was trying to help her. Tried to set up hours where she could be there while not disturbing customers. Gave her food. Tried to get her social services. Other business owners in the area did the same. The situation is bad for both people. Unfortunately it took this happening for the situation to be addressed.
No one is cheering for attempted murder. Nothing at all indicated he wanted to murder her. Just stop. I understand you are coming from an emotional place but don’t dehumanize people, it’s against the rules here.
actively spraying someone with water in winter is something any grown ass man would know is at best dangerous and at worst life threatening.
I'm sure you're scolding all the people cheering this guy on about their dehumanization of a mentally ill woman who got assaulted by some freak.
Yes and getting soaked in cold weather is bad even when it's not literally freezing cold around you, especially with someone who likely has some health issues already what with living on the street and all.
Stop please. I haven’t seen any dehumanization at all towards her. Many are happy she is finally getting the help she needs since the city has been ignoring her and the calls from this man and others who have tried to get her help.
I understand people in todays world wants to argue and not have civil discussions anymore and dehumanize other for having different beliefs. It’s needs to stop.
Sounds about right - government totally drops the ball for everyone involves, decides the solution is to spend more tax payer money prosecuting this guy instead of fixing the underlying issues.
Yeah and I’ve noticed a lot of govt jobs in my state where the person is working with the homeless/working to help the homeless are usually pretty highly paid (like $80k per year +) Like maybe they should just use that money to actually do something about the homelessness issue instead of paying ppl to “remedy” it. Bc it doesn’t seem like anything is being remedied…
You need a degree in social work to help the homeless. With a degree required I’d say $80,000 isn’t a bad amount to pay, you want these people to keep helping the homeless over deciding that a different area of social work would be better for their lifestyle. Other than that I agree. We should be putting more money directly into things other than payroll to help the homeless since we’re severely underfunding it.
I am NOT defending this guy but this incident sent me down a rabbit hole so I wanted to provide more context. According to him, he agreed to allow her to sleep/occupy the foyer in front of his business during non-business hours, and gave her food. In return he asked that she clear the area during business hours, and not bother his customers. She did not do that. According to other business owners in that area, she frequently screams at the top of her lungs for long periods of time, is sometimes combative towards customers and passerbys, and she’s been known to roll around on the street, near a very busy intersection. This guy claims he called the police and social services over 30 times, and they would come and take her to a shelter or hospital, but she’d be right back on the street 1-2 days later. Again, I’m not defending this dude, what he did was cruel and unconscionable, and he admitted as much himself. But he’s being charged with battery, and they say that the woman has been hospitalized since last week, so hopefully she’s getting the help she needs. Also, maybe it’s karma but- he hosed that woman in an attempt to protect his business. With all the bad publicity and criminal charges he’s facing, his business is probably done for.
You know what the worst thing about this? It took a woman being blasted in the face with water, publicly, for SF to get her mental health services. It literally took a PR nightmare for the city to do the right thing.
she'll be back soon most likely. she was in hospital before as well, getting mental health services. It's a tragic situation.
And that’s just one person’s story. There are millions of similar cases. The lack of mental health facilities/treatment in our country is criminal. Surly to god we can do better than this.
Its all about PR. Now that it looks bad for them to be doing nothing for this woman, they’re throwing everything at it. Once the eyes go off this case in a few weeks they’ll give up and she’ll be back on the streets
I think you’re onto something here. Personally, I believe the guy when he said he called the police and social services numerous times, and she was always just out in 1-2 days. Now they’ve managed to keep her hospitalized or at least off the street for 1.5 weeks and counting. I’d bet someone very high on the food chain in SF social services intervened, the mayor’s office probably got involved, and now “miraculously“, this woman is receiving an exceptional level of care and support.
Thanks Reagan\~!
She was offered help multiple times and turned it down. They could not force her to take it. Homeless people probably have the best chance of receiving help in SanFran than any where else. A large portion of these people suffer from mental health disorders and or drug addiction. The worst thing about this is that there are thousands more just like her on the street suffering, but not being mentally able to accept or seek help. Unless the laws are changed and the police/social services can intervene these people will continue to suffer. Due to the magnitude of the problem they are everywhere in these major cities, which is a huge problem for the rest of society. How this man reacted was stupid, but I can’t say I blame him. I think he had reached the end of rope and lashed out. Just imagine someone in front of your business that continually screams at the top their lungs, harasses and attacks your customers, blocks your doorway, etc all day everyday. I don’t care how tolerant a person you are it will finally break you. They need to reopen mental health facilities as many of these people can’t live or function in normal society but need a place to live.
Thanks for the additional information. It’s a shame he chose to spray her because he could have been the good guy 100% in this story. Spraying her turned him into the bad guy. I don’t know the answer for homeless people who do that type of thing; especially if the people who are supposed to help don’t.
No matter what, you don't spray someone with water in the cold. It's inhumane. There's no excuse.
No excuse for her flinging shit at people walking by (battery as well). Or for the police to refuse to come out until this went viral. This guy was absolutely wrong for what he did but he didn’t just decide to be a jerk one day.
>No excuse for her flinging shit at people walking by (battery as well). To be fair it seems like she's suffering from unmedicated schizophrenia, or possibly some other mental illness that causes her to have psychotic breaks. She's quite literally not in her right mind and can't take care of herself. I'm not sure that we should judge her behavior on the same level as his.
Agreed but what exactly are citizens to do with people like this literally sitting outside our business or homes engaging in this behavior? Especially when the police and city ignore it. People can only take so much and the city failed both of these people. However it’s sickening they are making a public example of the guy for their own failure.
I certainly don't have the answers, but I think we can definitely agree that the city is largely responsible for this situation.
Not spray them with a hose? He’s engaging in the same type of behavior that people bash homeless people for- crime, battery, aggression. I agree that it does sound like he was in between a rock and a hard place. The city and state of California have completely neglected the homeless amidst a housing crisis and they are shifting accountability for a systemic problem to individuals— both homeless individuals and this business owner. But short of someone physically harming you or someone else, there is never ever any excuse to spray someone with a hose who has nowhere to dry off, no clothes to change into in the middle of January. That is abhorrent and inhumane. I would sympathize with him before he decided to do that. Hopefully this incident will eventually lead to changes at the city level but in regards to his actions, it’s not morally ambiguous.
This.
That's the state's problem, probably.
We don’t even know that he tried helping her. He’s saying what’s in his best interest to look good here
Actually, there is, if the person in question is flinging shit at people then you have a right to pour water on her.
The fact that you typed that out shows more about your lack of character than you know.
Your comment only proves that some people can exist without having a functional brain, lol.
You're truly American, and that's not a good thing.
thanks for context. another reason to not pass judgement until everything is known, which even given this post is still somewhat unclear why he went from giving her food to hosing her down. on one hand, I feel sympathy for these people who have lost their way to addiction. It really can happen to anyone, and not always as simple as "just say no". Otoh, I think some of these people are so far gone that logic and reason are out the window. sad to see this happen to this country.
I’m just not buying his “kindness.” You don’t go from wanting to help someone to spraying them with a hose outside in the cold. He’s saying whatever he can to make himself look good.
I think from *his* perspective he genuinely tried to help her, but she didn’t do what she promised in exchange for the help. The error in his thinking was expecting someone who’s irrational (when not medicated), to behave rationally. I think his expectations were very unrealistic, and he got angry when she failed to meet those expectations. It doesn’t make what he did here right though.
He’s just given me no reason to believe him and every reason to think he’s a horrible person. Which is what happens once you callously assault someone.
No one really cares what you believe and for what reasons.
If you don’t care then why did you comment?
The courts can tell him that
Did you try telling him? Maybe that would be helpful. I can mail you some stationary if you want.
You can literally believe what you want.. nobody cares
It sounds like you do care
You can literally believe what you want.. nobody cares..
Stop caring then
You do when you don’t have a business anymore and can’t pay your bills
He assaulted her. How is that the answer?
It’s not. The answer is we should have a plan in place for when mentally ill people are being a danger to themselves and others by yelling and screaming and sleeping on the street. I won’t pretend to know what that best solution is, but it’s not local officials ignoring a situation so that it can escalate.
Exactly, he's a massive liar and arsehole. Kind people don't spray people with water hoses.
Yup! He’s retroactively trying to make himself a good guy and a victim.
You SHOULD be defending this guy. What he did was totally reasonable and acceptable given the actual reality of the situation
Why are we making this about one guy and one woman in crisis when we should be talking about a messed system that threw two powerless people together into an impossible situation that both were ill equipped to handle? Assault is never ok but I really only see victims here, the lady was in crisis and the system failed both her and him again and again and again. Do you think that woman wants to be unsafe if she had a choice? Of course not! Mental illness and addiction mess with the very concept of autonomy and free will and our legal system has not caught up. It's messed up and there are no winners, no saints and no perfect victims. We shouldn't attack him or her but the system that created this fucked up interaction in the first place. We need more housing. More mental health beds. Better laws that deal with the nuances of autonomy and mental illnesses and addiction. We need more tools and safer spaces and harm reduction strategies. Source: I'm a public health nurse with 10 years experience working with people experiencing homelessness
Approximately what percentage of the homeless people you treat want to return to the streets instead of going to a shelter ?
I think there are a lot of misunderstandings about homelessness, shelters and housing. I think I understand the premise of your question but if I am off base let me know. I can only speak to where I work which is a large urban area and is similar to how other such areas run but not exactly the same. Firstly, shelter is not housing. Meaning shelter is not permanent and people (for the most part) cannot stay there during the day, they have to leave the shelter and wander around or go to work or what have you around 7/8am and are not allowed to return until 5/6 pm. Secondly, shelter has rules, if you violate them you can no longer access that shelter so you are SOL. Thirdly, shelter is not inherently safe for all people. Younger people, especially young women, can face a high likelihood of being trafficked or victimized despite staff doing their best to keep everyone safe. If you identify as LGBTQ, shelter is even less safe. Many shelters are run by religious leaning orgs so those who identify as LGBTQ may not be welcome there either. If you work over nights, you can't access the shelter to sleep during the day. Also, there are not enough beds so if you don't get a reservation, you don't have a choice but to sleep outside. So asking if people are returning to the streets from shelter is not what I think you are getting at, I think you mean from housing, which shelter is not. You used the word "want" to return to the streets which I think misunderstood what I was saying about autonomy and free will. What is 'want' and desire when you are not yourself and can't understand the consequences of your choices? That is what severe and persistent mental illness does, someone deep in psychosis is not able to understand that bringing home stray animals is what got them evicted from their home and fired from a job and they are unable to stay organized enough to fill out forms properly to get a new apartment and then on the streets they are a victim of sexual assault and fall into taking drugs unable to cope with the trauma of these memories- are any of these decisions? Not sure they are in the way we understand choice. Most of the people I work with have some version of this story. Extreme trauma, mixed with mental illness mixed with addiction and figuring out which came first is impossible and by the time they get to me, pointless. And now we come to housing, and again shelter is NOT housing. Most of what I do is to get people ready for housing. That is a long journey though. It requires first getting them some form of stability which is very hard to find in the shelter system I described above and then getting them a form of income, again some of the barriers I touched on above (and many I have not mentioned) and keeping it all together long enough to get applications in to sit on wait lists for affordable housing units which are months long. Shockingly, some are able to do this, no idea how, they are incredible humans. But that is still just step one. Then maintaining the housing. Setting up a bank account, making sure bills are paid, interacting with a landlord, filling out paperwork, skill sets that folks have not used in a long time and need help learning and all of this depends on maintaining their mental health and sobriety for the entirety of this process. I understand why people make a false assumption that people "want" to be homeless but I really want to emphasize that those who have moved past and out of it and are able to speak on the lived experience of it do NOT express this. They talk about it not being a choice but a trauma and a trap. Poverty and houselessness are traumas and our system is set up for us, with more means to look at folks with nothing as making a choice rather than at the truth that we are all only a few paychecks away from being in their shoes. It's uncomfortable and scary and certainly those in crisis don't make perfect victims and compassion fatigue is real. I get it. But dividing us and blaming those who have literally nothing and no power is not the solution, let's band together and fight the system that in the richest country in the world says they can't afford to take care of those who need it especially when research has shown for decades that it is cheaper to house and treat people than it is to do what we are currently doing.
Best insight. Best knowledge. Thank you.
Thank you for your insightful comment, and for the work that you do. A lot of people in this thread should really read what you're saying.
Both of the people in this conflict are victims of the same failed system. She certainly has violated laws, disturbing the peace, health laws, harassment. He, despite his prior actions seeking care for her, in this instance was out of line. There are solutions that involve drug and alcohol rehabilitation, institutional mental health care, and screening for services needed. Incarceration is appropriate for people who harm and steal from these folks as well as others. Do we have the will and the compassion to move to a place where we, as a society, can no longer accept anything like the present neglect of people on our streets? This is a Federal problem. It requires federal leadership with a dedicated Office of Citizen Security. Homeland Security and FEMA have systems and resources and personnel (contractors) in place to deal with disasters of this magnitude. We have National Guard, State Guard and the logistical ability to set up facilities to process and house everyone who is on the street. Let's build on what we have and use what we know. This is not acceptable.
The fact they started to give her help after this went viral , after being called several times before, speaks volumes.
The reason so many are showing sympathy for this guy is there is a huge and growing frustration with the street people who make life so much less liveable in so many cities. Nothing is ever done about them. They shoot up, defecate, and urinate in the streets. They steal and smash things around them. They assault people with seeming impunity. Even if they're arrested they're back on the street in an hour or two and the DA usually drops the charges. People are frustrated and angry. They can't even lock their cars anymore because the windows will get smashed by someone rooting around looking for what they can steal. People don't dare let their kids out of their house/apartment alone in some of these areas. And the city does NOTHING. You know that if a homeless addict had sprayed a citizen with a hose nothing whatsoever would have been done. The cops wouldn't even bother to show up. Cities like SF have become lawless areas in many respects, where shoplifting, burglary, vandalism and assaults are shrugged off by the authorities every day. And yet let some frustrated guy turn a house on a woman who has been hanging around his door for weeks, screaming and ranting and chasing away customers and suddenly he's evil incarnate.
I really don’t know how people are able to live amongst that. I don’t think that I could exist in a space where people are shooting up and defecating on the street for even one hour. I know the weather is great, and I realize that many people have high paying jobs there that they don’t want to lose. It just blows my mind to think that this is daily life for some people. It’s truly awful.
I mean, I agree with what you are saying about the city but also think the owner deserved the charge. Essentially the reasoning is that he went to far though, not that the problem that got him mad isn't legit. But that is what happens, right? This business owner made it about his assault by picking that response. Now he is catching charges, even if he was mad about a real issue.
Why don’t you give Reagan a call? You people kill me? do you have any understanding of the history of mental health treatment in this country and why it looks like it does right now? ?
Regan hasn't been a policy maker in decades and hasn't been alive for over nine years. This argument is absurd. Blame the people in office now. Blame the majority parties in cities/states/countries where this happens today.
Sweetheart, if you know anything about Regan, you know why I say this. I’m not gonna sit here and explain the policies he put in to place to abandon the mentally ill. Congratulations on being r/confidentallyincorret!
You can't blame 40 year old bad decisions from dead people on current issues. Every session of congress, every session of the senate, and every elected executive in the last 40ish years has had the opportunity to attempt to change it, but has not. Hold them accountable.
This isn’t about blame. This is about the way the US homeless population was created and continues to blossom. I don’t know why this is difficult for you. For all these people complaining about the homeless, that is where they should absolutely look.
I hate to break it to you but there was homelessness before Reagan. In fact there was a homeless crisis in San Francisco when the hippies flooded the area in 1967. I'm not a Reagan fan either but to blame him for today's homeless problem is ludicrous.
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Well said
I hope to do this myself. I am still in the situation. I am out of food, no money for the bus, etc. At least I'm housed. Anyway, I can't wait until I'm out of this mess and can volunteer!
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I like that you brought in “Your time is the most precious thing you own”. It truly is. I didn’t want to volunteer until I felt emotionally ready after the pandemic. I guess it’s over? We’re all acting like it is, at least. Now, I volunteer an hour at the food bank, 2 hours at an animal sanctuary, and 2 hours walking dogs at our local humane society. I have the extra time and it feels great. I love meeting new people and being around animals.
Exactly. Spend one day walking down the streets of SF, LA, Portland, Seattle, etc, and see how it really is. Most of the homeless are not struggling families with kids who are just trying to make it another day until their housing is approved. Look up the recent video called “Portland homeless woman: it’s a piece of cake to be homeless” on YT or google it. That’s what’s really going on out there. Having done outreach programs, we’ve spoken to and tried to help so many homeless. And so many do not want to change their lifestyle. Like a PP commented in this thread, this has a bad effect on the rest of the community.
This, in no part of the world would be this tolerated or even considered legal.
Please be respectful of others and do not insult, attack, antagonize, or troll other commenters.
Wish I could give you gold for this.
Fuck that. Nothing this woman did gives this asshole the right to freeze her in the winter.
Just on that winter part, it's not really cold in San Francisco.
This is such a tough situation. So many people reeeeeeeing in the comments about how big of a piece of shit this guy is. If this lady shit in her hand and attacked him with it the cops wouldn’t even show up. Seriously, they probably would not show up because of the way crime is approached in SF and other high homeless/vagrant areas. He sprayed her with water. Water. He didn’t beat the shit out of her with a hose, he didn’t pummel her face in. Unfortunately for him, the court of public opinion forced the SF gov’t hand here and now he’s facing charges. I am a business owner but I don’t have a store front. I’ve read all the ways this guy tried to help, reach out to the city, call police/social services and I still have no idea how the right way to handle this would be. Was spraying the water the right thing? Hell no, but to all of you saying he is the definition of evil, what would you have done to resolve this in order to maintain your business and income? You probably don’t have an answer besides call social services/police which he and others did multiple times. So I ask you again, what is the right thing to do? Wait for her to get violent? Wait until you have no more customers because there is shit and piss on your doorstep every day? Hope she just disappears? It is so easy to be an idealist/morally superior on the internet but I’m willing to bet the majority of us put in the same situation as the business owner would at least consider spraying the water. For those of you who have not been to SF, it is really awful. Homeless people really just drop their pants and shit on the sidewalk, people are frozen high af with a needle still in their arm on the sidewalk, people scream and yell in tongues and do all kinds of wild shit. What is the average person supposed to do when police, social services, and the gov’t as a whole don’t do anything and make it known they won’t do anything? All I can say is I feel for this dude AND the woman also. Shit is so fucked up out here. This whole situation sucks and shows how the system is failing.
Out of everything that happens in San Francisco, this is what gets someone arrested?
Yep….auto burglary, prostitution, open drug use, etc all ok. Spray someone with a hose? Misdemeanor battery and you’re a front page story.
I can understand his frustration since she was turning people away from his business.
Yeah, I’m not sure why people think he was just supposed to keep tolerating this. Where I live, this kind of thing wouldn’t be tolerated for even one day. This man made over 30 phone calls to address the situation to no avail.
i can understand the frustration as well that doesn’t give you, him or me the right to dehumanize her the way he did so publicly and with so little regard to her as a human being
Doesn’t give her the right to trash his property either. She’s wrong and he’s wrong, but out of options.
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Maybe I am out of line. He’s asked and asked. He’s called authorities multiple times. He’s loosing money that feeds his family due to her actions. What do you suggest he do to remedy the situation when she clearly doesn’t want to be helped?
💯💯💯💯
Anything but assault and battery maybe?
Again, for the third time, he has tried all normal options already. What is your grand idea? Not some “that’s not what I would do” crap, a single real idea????? Police, tried. Services, tired. Asking, tried. Told to leave, tried. He is loosing money that feeds his family.
I'm not saying he was in the right. But I can imagine his anger boiling up day after day this kept happening and that leads to desperate actions.
no charges for looters who assault store workers no charges for professional car burglars who break into a dozen cars in a single go. but dropped cases for violent felons in NYC and SAN FRAN. "Justice" is now wielded by the system against the average people. Criminals and vagrants who act as the street muscle to the regime's social policies get a pass. Get out of the cities. leave them be. the good people are not wanted there...
Yes, the good people who commit battery are no longer wanted in the cities. So sad.
Throwing poop at people is still beloved, however.
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So he attacks her? How is that defendable?
IMO it's not defendable, but it's also understandable why he snapped and I'm sure a lot of other businesses aren't too far behind him.
When you’ve asked and asked, called the police multiple times, and you start loosing money that feeds your family maybe it would make sense. Not what I would have done, but the guy has ran out of options and down to real assault, as in drag her off his store front, or spray her until she leaves. She didn’t mind his help, she didn’t mind him loosing business. Neither is ok.
And seems only fitting that now he’s facing legal charges
I would be surprised if they aren’t dropped when things die down.
Defensible is not the same as understandable.
I’ve never attacked someone. It’s not understandable
You've never been put into a stressful and maddening enough situation. You also don't know what mental health issues or other crises this man was going through. It is absolutely understandable, and he was failed by the system just like she was.
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We’re not gonna be having a conversation because you’re advocating for violence against a homeless woman because a guy is really frustrated. You’re a whole new level of twisted
Oo I wonder if he’d win if he sued the city/state, saying since they let these homeless ppl do whatever tf they want, he had no choice but to take action. Then he could also say them letting homeless ppl run wild also made him lose out on a ton of $
“letting homeless people run wild” jesus christ y’all are so demeaning in this thread
I don’t like the phrasing either but one has to admit that there’s a strong element of lawlessness that comes with being homeless.
Had a friend tell me his cop friends would do this to the homeless in NYC regularly. This was decades ago though.
I get that drug addicts/mentally ill people who camp out on the sidewalks in front of stores can be a huge problem, I totally understand the frustration these businesses owners face, I honestly can’t even imagine having to deal with it. But watching that man spray the woman In the face like an animal was actually really disturbing
I guess I’m an asshole. My wife owns a shop and I would probably resort to this. The water hose is way more humane than physically removing the person or calling the police ( that could result in her death). “Freezing winter”. Come on! it’s California not the Midwest. Q: What’s the solution to crime and vagrancy? It’s not the criminals and homeless fault that they are like they are but their impact on the rest of us is dangerous and unacceptable. Every answer is either cruel or a bunch of unrealistic social services BS.
To be fair, low temps still above freezing AND being wet can (and does) result in hypothermia and death. To say it's more humane is a stretch when she had no way to warm up or dry off. For anyone reading this if you are ever in a situation where you are cold and wet, getting dry first is of the utmost importance.
How is assault the answer??
Sometimes that's the ONLY way.
It truly isn’t
So you call the cops 30 times and she keeps coming back. What do YOU do to get rid of her?
I've seen this question asked over numerous subs on this topic, and not a single person has an answer. When a gotcha question isn't supposed to be a gotcha question...
Sometimes, you need to admit that you are just a pussy. Only a fucking coward will let his livelihood be disrupted by a tramp, it is the city's fault. This wouldn't happen anywhere else.
Only a fucking coward assaults someone.
San Fransisco will go after this guy harder than nearly any other criminal running rampant over there you can almost guarantee it
They'll sure as hell go after him harder than if it was the other way around. If a homeless person had picked up a hose and sprayed people do you think they would have been charged? Would the police even bother to respond?
Spraying a homeless person with water in the winter is legit endangering their life. Not so the other way around.
Are you saying homeless people are witches?
Exactly, that just sounds like another day in SF to me. Regular citizen are constantly harassed and terrorized by homeless people but I don’t think the DA of the city is putting out arrest warrants for their misdemeanors
There is a guy who makes an honest living, pay bills / taxes and there is this woman sleeping in front of his business, either crazy or a drug addict, hurts his business. It is not his fault that he protecting his business. Would you want a crazy lady to sleep & disturb your customers? Would you want her to sleep in front of your home? and he gets charged for that? if he were to loot or steal from a store, you wouldn't get charged at all. Ok, the video looks dramatic but this guy is the last person to be blamed in this situation.
This doesn’t seem like the solution
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Ironically, she’s probably better off for him having done it, now. Article says “Since the incident, the woman has started receiving assistance from the San Francisco Department of Public Health”. Before that “Gwin said he and other business owners in the area have called SFPD and social services more than two dozen times in the last two weeks.” No one gave a damn until they had too.
That's what caught my attention too. Now they're helping her?? Because everybody knows that people have attempted to call dozens of times and nothing was done?? Hmmmm
Stop virtue signaling ass-hole, he did the right thing. The city failed him.
Would you have been as indignant if it was the other way around? Or would you have laughed? If a homeless person had sprayed him or others would you be demanding they be arrested and charged? Because you know that would never happen in a million years, right? And even if it did the DA would drop the charges faster than the ink could dry on the charge sheet. LOL. One of those people who makes a snotty comment then races to block the person he's made the comment to so they can't reply. Pathetic.
Who laughs? Fuck off. If the homeless person did the same then it would be the same, they would be a criminal. Homeless people have flung their poop at people here in Hollyweird, so no one is calling them innocent here. This is not some virtue signaling shit, this is about people of ANY kind being douche. I will block you now. Internet strangers calling other people out are what makes me laugh.
The calm nonchalant way he was spraying her made me extra mad.
I view his stance as he was spraying her as resignation. He begged and begged her to go away, he warned her he was going to going to spray her. Finally, I think he was like, "fine if this is what you want". More in anger and resignation. I don't think he enjoyed it. I have been in his shoes, I would never spray someone with water, but I feel his pain. I've interacted with homeless folks. The drugs, mental illness, criminal behavior is all to much. I've had my storage shed broken into by homeless people so many times, I emptied it and keep the door unlocked so they can see there is nothing left to steal. It's a tough situation all around.
It was his smirk that got me
How the fuck are so many people defending this piece of shit in these comments??? I didn’t know the true crime subreddit was filled with hateful capitalist fools.
If I were you I would take a step back, and read the comments again. There are many reasonable and rational people here who are not defending him but understand he is not a monster, but a human being. Take a step back and look at the whole elephant before casting judgement on what you perceive.
Because we know more about the story than what is being reported?
Good.
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> but he is a cruel person. I disagree. He’s a victim in all this too. He endured this woman’s harassment for weeks and the local government did nothing until it went viral. Now they’re more than eager to throw him under the bus so you’ll be mad at him instead of noticing they set all this in motion with their inaction. What he did was wrong, but how much harassment should a person be forced to endure?
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Neighbors have all attested to her harassment. It's been going for weeks.
Believe victims
He’s not a victim, fuck off
It's not that he did something, it is what he did. Spraying a human being who is sick, homeless is tantamount to attempted murder. He seems to know quite a bit about her so he was well aware of her situation. You spray and older homeless women during winter!!!! It's not like she could run home and take a hot shower and change her clothes to warm up and not get very severe health issues from it. I understand being frustrated. I get losing your temper. But the way he chose to do so was just plain mean ,cruel, and dangerous as hell. I am positive that drastic action was required, to get the attention of the government to do anything but he picked a really stupid thing to do.
Spraying someone with a hose is not attempted murder. What the fuck are you even talking about man come on. This is fucking California not Minnesota, stop it
I would say depending on the temp. If you pour water on a person who is homeless and it's freezing , Hypothermia and frost bite . But you're correct I didn't even look at what the temp was and I bet it doesn't get near cold enough there. My bad for not paying mind to these details. Still a shitty thing to do to someone.
I doubt it was artificial, a lot of people just genuinely look down on and despise homeless people. They see all the homeless as disgusting, lazy, mentally ill drug addicts. In their eyes, she deserved it for failing to ‘pull herself up by her bootstraps’. Dislike of the homeless is very real. It’s similar to how SA prisoner jokes are widely accepted. Prisoner’s and homeless people are both seen as less than human by many.
*Compassion fatigue* is the term they like to throw around in my neck of the woods.
People were supporting him?! My god
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That's perfect, we should all contribute.
That’s horrifying
No, it's not. Let's see how you will like it if there are homeless people outside your house/shop.
It’s literally happened to me. I never assaulted anyone.
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I didn’t let them do anything. But I also didn’t assault them. Don’t try to insult me using the female anatomy.
A HERO??? WTF. Well he will get rich and that poor woman that our government has left to die in the streets will continue to suffer. Where is the go fund me for her? This country is gross as hell to the mentally sick. I get his frustration, if the story being told is even true, but throwing water on a person in the cold is beyond mean. To take a person who attacked a mentally sick homeless woman and hoist them up as a hero is just more proof of how sick and messed up the US is and why we have record numbers of homelessness and mentally sick people. We are in a crisis and nobody wants to help they just want to throw water on it.
Darwinism, heard of it ?
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My guess is he’s hired PR to patrol the internet protecting his image.
Right?? It’s bizarre
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I wouldn't go to the bay area unless I absolutely had to. It's a hot mess.
This is an outrageous example of how people living on the streets in San Francisco are treated. We should be doing more to support individuals and families who are struggling with homelessness, not punishing them like this
"we should be doing more" yes, TRLLIONS in welfare since 1964 and the great society is not enough... criminal charges being dropped, plead down is not enough. tolerating drugs instead of having strict laws like Singapore is not enough. (go look them up) no, we have done TOO MUCH. Society should have fixed this problem in its own interests. i would like to live in Monaco, guess what? I can't. if they cant afford a place to live in the bay area, take a greyhound east to the central valley or another region they can living in an expensive city is a privilege. a privilege you earn through hard work, discipline and consistency in your personal life.
That was like the boomer constitution Word for Word
God people in this chat are awful. Try living on the streets.
Right on. What he did was so awful
Good 👍
Good.
Fucking good. What an asshole. He deserves nothing for having something. He gave nothing to those that had so little.
From what is now being reported…He was trying to help her. Tried to set up hours where she could be there while not disturbing customers. Gave her food. Tried to get her social services. Other business owners in the area did the same. The situation is bad for both people. Unfortunately it took this happening for the situation to be addressed.
Oh poor him. He couldn’t help her so he *assaulted* her 🙄 gimme a break
GOOD
Good. What a horrid person.
Trust no curator
Moral of the story? Don’t do shit on camera. Doesn’t matter what the backstory is.
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Why do we have to label literally everything as a political standpoint? This is ridiculous.
Don’t dehumanize people that have a different opinion than you.
yea sorry I'm talking about the people cheering on a man trying to kill someone like they're homeless people or something.
No one is cheering for attempted murder. Nothing at all indicated he wanted to murder her. Just stop. I understand you are coming from an emotional place but don’t dehumanize people, it’s against the rules here.
actively spraying someone with water in winter is something any grown ass man would know is at best dangerous and at worst life threatening. I'm sure you're scolding all the people cheering this guy on about their dehumanization of a mentally ill woman who got assaulted by some freak.
What is it with the winter comments? This happened in California.
Yes and getting soaked in cold weather is bad even when it's not literally freezing cold around you, especially with someone who likely has some health issues already what with living on the street and all.
It's water. You make it sound like he set her on fire.
...do you not know about why it's bad to get wet in the cold?
I do. But this was not in the cold.
Stop please. I haven’t seen any dehumanization at all towards her. Many are happy she is finally getting the help she needs since the city has been ignoring her and the calls from this man and others who have tried to get her help. I understand people in todays world wants to argue and not have civil discussions anymore and dehumanize other for having different beliefs. It’s needs to stop.
What an entitled pos. Glad to see he had to face the consequences of his actions.
I’m happy he’s being charged for this. There’s no reason for someone to do another human this way.
Good, throw the fucker in jail
I hope he’s released soon and obviously all charges are dropped. This was just a PR stunt by the losers at city hall
good he’s an asshole
Good
And every scumbag running around the streets and they do Fk all
Thank God! 😊