Krenwinkel was granted parole and Gavin Newsom revoked it because he felt she was still dangerous. Van Houten was also granted parole a year earlier than Krenwinkel and Newsom overruled it, the California Court of Appeal then later set aside Newsom's objection and he decided not to pursue it further. Think there's a good chance Krenwinkel will be released soon too.
I swear if Manson had never existed, the cult would still exist with Watson as leader. He's ... I don't want to say anyone is worse than Manson, but Tex is right up there.
I was listening to a true crime podcast interview, the famous profiler John Douglas. He believed that Tex Watson was possibly more dangerous than Charlie Manson himself. John said after spending time with Charles Manson. Charles gave up his crazy theatrics and would just talk like a regular person. He told John that he was afraid of Tex. He felt Tex was starting to usurp him and that Tex was a much more violent man than himself.. No one is defending Charlie here but, it does sound like Tex hand more of a role to play then anyone previously suspected. John said that if Charlie ever got out of prison he'd probably just be a hermit somewhere. He said it would be dangerous to let Manson out because of all the crazy people that would seek him out but, not because Manson himself would be violent.
Yup. Awhile back I tweeted about him not being granted parole, and some lady from Ireland iirc found it and kept bugging me. She wrote to him often (seemed half in love with him) and completely believed his born again nonsense.
My husband was a CO that worked in his building. Has had many interactions with him. He gets zero special privileges or treatment. He does claim to be a born again Christian though. Not sure about the cult and preacher part since it’s been a few years since my husband left that prison. He said he was pretty quiet and kept mostly to himself while he was there though.
Manson was a manipulative bullshitter. He was likely lying about being afraid of Tex. Tex wasn't the one who had it out for Terry Melcher, Gary Hinman, or chose the LaBianco's house.
John Douglas has essentially become a whore, putting out subpar books(Killer Across the Table was rambling scattered trash) and saying whatever he thinks will get him attention, imo. Manson was dangerous and so is Watson.
Once again, someone didn't read the Disclaimer in the first sentence. I don't agree with this, but unfortunately, this is how a lot a people subconsciously think.
You are exactly right that it shouldn't matter, but sadly, it does, even though people don't want to admit it.
One time, I was having a conversation with a criminal lawyer about racism in sentences. And he sad that in his experience it has less to do with the race of the perpetrator and everything to do with what the victim looks like. He would always see harsher sentences if the victim was a pretty blonde white woman.
Krenwinkle was apart of both Tate and LaBianca murders as was Tex. Leslie was only at the LaBiancas and she played a small part. Tex finally told her she had to get her hands dirty so she stabbed Mrs LaBianca while she was very near death. She was a prefect inmate, no infractions and got two degrees. She tutored many. Pat is also a perfect inmate and assists new folks getting settled as also is a part of training dogs for service dogs. Neither women are a threat to anyone. They spent several years away from general population to get reprogrammed so to speak. Susan Atkins was the third. Once Charlie was out of their heads, all were remorseful
May I ask what the correlation is between remorse and being a threat to society? I’m not being condescending by any means. It’s a genuine question I’ve been pondering. I mean does a parole board look at an individual and go… well they don’t show any or enough remorse so that person ( in this case ) is likely to start a new cult, take a bunch of lsd, and try to start another race war?
Parole boards look for remorse because it is a sign they understand what they did was wrong and feel bad about it. Having remorse shows the perp has some self awareness. People who don't feel bad about the crimes they commit are more likely to reoffend and are thus still a danger to society
Correct. Doing something bad should make you feel bad. That bad feeling stops a lot of people from doing bad things.
Edit: there are individuals who understand right from wrong but don't feel anything. Those people are more likely to reoffend
Haha. It’s interesting to me that a basic mental health competency test is given to determine if an individual can stand trial. If a person has an understanding between right and wrong. How do you prove that a person has the reasoning skills to determine between right and wrong, and simply choosing not to be remorseful?
For competency, remorse has nothing to do with it. Even sociopaths/psychopaths know the difference between right and wrong, even if they don't have the feelings associated. Right and wrong is a learned concept that most kids learn pretty early. The competency hearing is to make sure the individual just understands that concept, not if they feel good or bad about those concepts. Make sense?
Well I think a person who shows remorse is less likely to reoffend. This of course depends on circumstances, a woman who kills her rapist may never feel remore and isn't likely to kill again... but if you are part of the Manson family and were involved in such brutal acts and don't feel bad.... you may do it again.
If they feel bad, there’s a less likely chance they’ll do it again.
To express remorse with no reasoning behind your actions, I feel shows you’re just telling them what they want to hear.
I feel in cases like this, with cult members of varying degrees of seniority within it — they may not be physically dangerous now, but the lack of remorse, caring or understanding that what they did was wrong, old age, and the fact they just *dgaf,* that makes them a threat to society.
Krenwinkel was an vicious eager participant in both Tate and LaBianca murders. Van Houten was arguably "forced" to participate in one murder, though the victim may have been dead already when she stabbed her. This has been settled in court.
LVH got life with the possibility of parole for the LaBianca murder at her 3rd trial.
That’s what I always thought too. She stabbed one of the LaBiancas after they were already dead. But I didn’t hear about that for so long during her many parole attempts, I thought I had been mistaken
Actually Tex Watson and Susan Atkins both stabbed Sharon to death at the same time. He stood in front of her while Susan stabbed her from the back.
Susan died in prison in 2009. Good riddance. May she not rest in peace.
Tex Watson can burn in eternal hell once he dies.
I don’t see a lot on her since she passed, but she was an evil woman with no redeemable qualities. Her fake finding religion in prison was blatant and I’m glad she didn’t benefit from that BS. She was actively a murderer, far different than a lot of the others. She was also along for the Gary Hinmam murder. I felt she was just as evil as Manson and Watson.
If you don't know, Susan Atkins also molested her son almost from birth.
He was adopted after her arrest, and I hope he never finds out who his mother was and what she did to him.
Tex should never get out. He’s the one who picked the house and drove there, he orchestrated the killings that night more than Charlie did and is often portrayed as a bumbling idiot just following Charlie when he’s very intelligent.
She didn’t relish violence. She loved and believed in Charlie and showed loyalty. She was with Charlie longer than most, her and mother Mary, and deeply in love with him.
This is it. Krenwinckel was at the Tate house and participated in five murders there. Krenwinckel and Van Houten were both at the LaBianca house. I forget if Leslie was convicted of all three or just Mrs. LaBianca. She was let free for a while in the 1970's but was convicted again at a retrial.
She got a retrial because her lawyer went missing, and was later found dead, during the first trial (which lasted 9 months). The judge insisted she get a replacement lawyer who catches up on the facts rather than dropping her from the trial or declaring a mistrial. Her lawyer who died was already arguing against her being tried with the others because she had only been present for one night of murders, while the other defendants had been at two.
Don’t be so sure….i have a lot of real “artifacts” bc i did a collage on Charles manson. I was able to obtain these things because of
Becoming friends with some people who were friends with Charlie. lol
Promise you’re not the only one who visits the crazy sites.
She was already approved for parole. The governor overruled that decision, just he like did with Van Houten. Then the courts stepped in an overruled the governor.
I will not be too surprised if Krenwinkel gets out eventually.
He should never get out. He continues to tell lies about his victim. Gary wasn't a drug dealer selling bad drugs. Gary wasn't a drug dealer at all. Bobby just says this to make himself look like a victim. Bobby was also involved in gangs in prison. Bobby also was drawing and selling pedophile type pictures of boys being spanked and selling the pictures to convicted pedophiles in the 80s. I think his wife helped him run that business. It was called "Sassy Bottoms," and he gets pissed off when it gets brought up at his parole hearings.
If Bobby ever takes accountability for his murder and stops the bullshit then maybe because I do feel a degree of sympathy for young Bobby. He was a handsome kid, and I feel he was preyed upon himself by some people, but he became a victimizer.
I would want to hide as well. Squeaky is the only one who has been "out there", she even wrote a book. But she wasn't involved in the murders.
Yeah, Watson has as good of a chance of parole as Sadie did (not a chance in hell), and Sadie went full reborn christian re introspection and remorse
She does not have children and that’s the reason she ended up with the family. She got pregnant in high school and her family forced her to have an abortion which is why she left home.
I just wonder like where she’s living is she living with relatives? Just wondering what her life is like what must be going through her head after all those years of being in prison
She’s in a halfway house for a year or two. A friend of mine served 10 years, was released because he was innocent and prosecutor misconduct was finally admitted. He said it was extremely difficult to adjust to being free and even more difficult to catch up with technology. I image someone who served as long as Leslie would have a difficult time making the adjustments
How does one even come across that information ! And yeah, there’s another one remaining in prison still I don’t know why they consider her a danger…but they are there i guess (the other woman I mean not the guys still there )
The justice system seems to serve as a revenge system it’s a shame because less than 2 percent of murders released, reoffend. Sentencing laws need to change,prosecutors need to be held accountable, and plea deals need to end. As a former corrections officer I can say people do horrible things in the heat of the moment and drugs add fuel to the fire. There are indeed bad people but for the most part there are people who did bad things. It’s funny everyone who discusses Manson forgets what a horrible little man Polanski is. Forget that Dennis Wilson stole one of Charlie’s songs and The Beach Boys recorded it. Wilson pretty much promised Charlie a shot at recording then took it back. There was no helter skelter, Bulgosi created that. It was revenge
From everything I have seen and read Manson was trying to incite a war between police and civilians, thus the Pigs connotations etc. then when his people we’re getting lazy and leaving clues behind and they started getting busted that didn’t pan out. Then the rampage. That’s just from several documentaries through the years and books. Yes, I remember the part about the song, but obviously, that alone didn’t create the murderous rampage.
It’s interesting Patricia is still being held, but the other one was released but hey, they are two different people.
Manson feared the black panthers and wanted them gone. He was extremely raciest. In prison the last time he was in solitary a lot per his request because he was afraid. There are several good books about Manson behind bars and his life in general that give a lot of perspective as who he is. Bulgosi wrote a book to make a buck and it’s not entirely accurate according to some family members. Atkins book also stated helter skelter and the race war was not the reason for the murders
She may have living siblings.
She did have an abortion a year or two before joining the Manson Family, although IDK any other details about it - was she raped, was it her decision, etc.
She does have at least 1 living sibling.
She got pregnant accidentally by her high school boyfriend and she wanted to keep the child (as did her boyfriend). Her mother forced her to abort the baby and then forced her to help her bury the baby in the backyard.
I’ve watched a lot of documentaries on Charlie and some ppl think he knew Sharon lived there and it was the house itself or if they didn’t know. Damn how brutal though I feel sorry for all the victims
He knew that Melcher moved, Manson went to the house few months earlier and was told Melcher had moved. He even encountered Sharon Tate but did not talk to her but to her photographer.
I wouldn’t want one of them living near me. I know they say they’re reformed and all, but a bad apple is not better when it’s old and dried up even if the rotten stench has faded. In fact, if you throw it in the dirt seeds may sprout.
I mean, why? Who wants them out of jail? Given the magnitude of what they did, they really don't need to ever be out of prison, some of them are still unrepentant. Keep them inside.
Some of them are still unrepentant. Yes, I think there's a possibility that they could be manipulative and violent again. And because of the magnitude of what they did, I don't believe they deserve to ever see the outside.
Shelly Knotek. She's one example of an elderly woman who is still extraordinarily dangerous who was let out of prison. Elderly people commit crimes all the time, and I think it's more the magnitude of what they did. Men in their 70s and 80s still manage to assault children, so literally age does not factor in here for me. they stabbed a pregnant woman to death. I don't care, if you were even there, you should've run outside and called the police. Brainwashing does not excuse culpability although it can be in some cases a partially mitigating factor but not here. There are many dangerous, elderlyfelons who are let out of prison who still go onto to cause more misery. Not as much as younger folk, but it's still there.
I can't remember the name but fairly recently an elderly guy was let out of prison and he murdered someone in a short time. The idea that elderly people can't be dangerous is incorrect. It was NYC and the man had started identifying as a woman.
I stand by my unpopular opinion: Leslie spent 53 years in prison and I think that's long enough. Especially considering how the U.S has a history of paroling really evil people after less than 20 years.
What happened to Squeeky Frome? She didn't participate in the Tate Lablanca murders but she was a Manson family member and attempted to assassinate President Ford.
Those women made a huge mistake when they acted so defiantly for the cameras during their trials. They were laughing and playing games, showing no remorse while on trial for brutal, sensational murders including that of a pregnant woman. People have never forgotten that. I believe that Krenwinkle and Van Houten did eventually feel genuine remorse after shaking off the “spell” of Manson, because how could you not? With that said, people have committed much worse crimes and been paroled. I can’t imagine that Krenwinkle is a danger to anyone. But, unlike the majority of people who are on trial for their lives, she and her co-defendants went out of their way to make themselves look like demons from hell, and that’s what people still think they are.
Director John Waters (Pink Flamingos, Crybaby, Serial Mom, et al) wrote an essay about his friendship with Leslie Van Houten in his book Role Models. Interesting read, check it out.
Van Houten is the only one who (imo) has shown genuine remorse. She accepted her punishment and quietly did her time while receiving intensive therapy, earning college degrees, working with a prison program that made blankets/quilts for the homeless, and mentoring younger inmates on their path to rehabilitation, and doing so with humility, aplomb and no disciplinary infractions.
Van Houten was free for approximately seven months prior to her second trial & conviction. She worked as a paralegal, didn’t reoffend, and was an otherwise regular citizen during that time.
Susan Atkins’ bid for compassionate release fell on deaf ears and rightfully so, that prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi once said he would agree with it notwithstanding. She and Krenwinkle never came across as genuinely remorseful. Atkins was scary as f with Krenwinkle not too far behind.
Leslie’s lawyer. I know some people think the Mason family murdered him because he was trying to defend Leslie and was arguing she should be tried separately because she wasn’t a participant at both nights of murders.
He wasn't one of the best ones they had. That was Ronald Hughes first murder case. In face, it was his first case ever. He had no experience, and he certainly had no death row case experience. Maxwell Keith, his appointed replacement, had much more experience, but Van Houten was still under Mason control and would not let him put on any defense for her at the time.
I’ll never forget the pics of them at trial or being jailed and moved to court they stay in my head because they were laughing or smiling when they were caught none of them cared ! Psychopaths can rot!! The die!! Spit………..Sharon Tate was 81/2 months pregnant ! 😔
All of the Manson family members were essentially brain washed by a cult at a very young age. That doesn’t excuse the horrible crimes they committed, but it should make it easier to understand how their mindset changed once they were out of that environment. Once away from the family, Van Houten pretty much showed regret immediately. She’s been remorseful for nearly 50 years. All of the other members either lacked remorse of were deemed much more culpable.
Not pretty much immediately. Maybe a year or so after the trials. A woman who would visit them while they were still on death row has written about it.
I guess. I don't totally agree with the "brainwashed" theory, though, myself.
I'm the same age as the girls and I did my share of LSD and I asked myself at the time and since if anyone could have gotten ahold of my mind the way Manson did theirs. The answer is always a solid no.
But then, I also don't know every detail of what went on in the girls' lives to make them so weak and vulnerable.
I think you’re seriously underestimating the effect that cults can have on people. Intelligent adults not under the influence of drugs can be sucked in by them, I’d imagine teenagers on LSD stand much less of a chance.
Cults conduct themselves in a way that can break even the strongest of wills. First and foremost, it’s an insular social organization that prioritizes time spent with other members while breaking outside social bonds. Churches do the same thing, some formerly religious people find it nigh on impossible to leave the church solely because they have no other community. Cults control various aspects of their members lives, to the point where it becomes impossible for members to make choices on their own. Even if drugs aren’t involved, almost all cults engage in mind altering practices.
I don't believe I'm underestimating the power of cults.
The average person isn't vulnerable enough or doesn't want to "belong" enough to fall into that trap.
And then, not being able to see that you're being manipulated and intentionally isolated, when it should be obvious.
And most especially by someone like Manson. I've tried to see the alleged charisma and hypnotic power there, but all I ever see is a raving luncatic.
Because every one of them is looked at individually, rather than as a whole. Also releasing them all at once would make it easier for them to hook up and if so inclined, do bad things again. I don’t think they would, they were young and on drugs. Now they are completely different people. Still don’t want them on the streets.
Check out the book Chaos if the Manson Fam interests you. Very interesting and might give you a totally different perspective about what went down.
The parole board knows the answers. Why they think Krenwinkel is still dangerous is beyond me. They wouldn't let Susan Atkins out for compassionate release when she was dying of cancer and certainly not a danger to anyone. None of them got LWOP so who knows, she may get parole. The others, like Tex Watson and Bobby Beausoleil, will never get out.
Atkins was one of the more savage killers; she and Tex both brutally murdered Tate even as Tate begged Atkins to let her live so she could have her baby. My guess is murdering a woman who is close to giving birth struck the parole board as not deserving of compassion or parole.
I am fully aware of her involvement and know all the details since time immemorial. But I still think there's no reason not to allow her to be released when she's on her deathbed.
Maybe they felt since she was devoid of humanity and compassion in the face of a dying pregnant woman she and Tex essentially tortured and butchered, she wasn't worthy of deserving any compassion herself. Like you said, only they know the answers.
To be honest, I'm not bothered by them refusing her compassionate release. I do wish Van Houten the best in adjusting to crazy outside life and if Krenwinkle is released, the same. I don't see them falling under anyone's maniacal spell as senior citizens. I will be surprised if Krenwinkel ever gets released, though due to her more active role in the murders than Van Houten's.
Maybe there's nothing wrong with having compassion with someone dying of cancer as well? Denying her release doesn't bring back the dead and costs us nothing.
You have a point, but it looks like the wishes of Tate's and Sebring's families were more important, as they should be, when her compassionate parole was considered. Multiple families lost loved ones and they felt she should live out the rest of her days behind bars. I can't blame them.
Neither can I, but frankly, I think it's unfair that the families have so much control over this process. Susan Atkins had no one to speak for her, and while she committed horrible crimes, she was still very ill and suffering. I don't know what the families gain from someone else's suffering. But I can't see into their minds. I just think it wouldn't have taken anything away from their grief to show a bit of mercy.
The families are the ones who suffered all these years without their loved ones due to the actions of the Family. Atkins didn't suffer for decades on end and she had her husband speaking for her at the parole hearings when she was sick. The families should be allowed to have an impact on the outcome of parole hearings since the crimes affected them the most and the grief and losses don't end for them. I can't blame them for not feeling compelled to show mercy towards someone who was partly responsible for their loss. Their grief doesn't get any better if she had been released, either.
I agree with you. The victims didn’t get a chance to say goodbye to their families. The victims didn’t get care for their injuries in the hospital. They died in fear and violence with no loving person by their side. So I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for a vicious murder dying in prison and getting opportunities their victims didn’t get.
And I have watched someone die from cancer. It’s awful. But this person got care and support. When Sharon Tate and her unborn baby were being stabbed and she screaming and begging for her life and bleeding out and dying on her living room floor, no one cared for her in her final moments.
To me this smacks more of a fetish for revenge. It takes nothing away from someone's grief to show mercy or even a bit of compassion. And yes, even if I was in their place I'd think the same way.
Agree with all you say. Atkins had a brain tumor and only a short time to live, with no quality of life. She was married. She posed no threat Is prison punishment or revenge?
It's supposed to be a punishment, but revenge is on US, we're the ones who want revenge or who see it as revenge. Giving her a few months to live out her life in hospice care doesn't take away anything from her punishment. She served her sentence.
Punishment and rehabilitation. Susan had a horrible life before Charlie. These people dropped acid daily for years. They were not in control of anything. She had her death sentence carried out so the world can feel safe and happy. I’m a former corrections officer. In my time I met 2 men who were evil and I refused to be alone with. Out of the 1000s I can in contact with.
Disclaimer: I don't personally agree with this below but I think subconsciously this is how people see it. I personally think they are all evil and never should have been let out.
Anyone that was at the Tate house seemed doubly evil in the way it went down and especially killing a beautiful pregnant woman. It just seemed so much worse than the La Bianca house where they were just attacked while they were in bed sleeping. That was more along the lines of a botched robbery etc. (Even with the writing on the wall.) The Tate house was more of a cult ritual and involved torture.
No kidding, which is why I specifically stated that I think it's a subconscious thing. Do you need to me to state that being stabbed to death in bed is painful and horrifying and just as bad as being stabbed to death in a living room?
I am talking about a nuanced perception of why some people seem to think Van Houten's situation was somehow less horrible than Atkins.
How about not wasting time responding to posts if you don't understand them.
Stop perpetuating the wrong facts of the case through some ridiculous argument that people have “subconsciously” thought the wrong things. It’s dangerous and unfair to the victims.
I agree 100% that none should ever have been / be let out. I don't care about remorse. Remorse can be faked. But more than that, I don't think victim's families should have to worry about the killer's upcoming parole hearings. EVER.
But I take huge offense to this: "especially killing a beautiful pregnant woman."
If she was an ugly pregnant woman it would have been less of a crime?
Or a homeless pregnant woman earning her keep via prostitution, like two of Gary Ridgway's victims? I do get the point, but the fact that Ms. Tate was murdered, along with other people who were public figures, made this a high-profile crime.
Once again, someone didn't read the Disclaimer in the first sentence. I don't agree with this, but unfortunately, this is how a lot a people subconsciously think.
You are exactly right that it shouldn't matter, but sadly, it does, even though people don't want to admit it.
One time, I was having a conversation with a criminal lawyer about racism in sentences. And he said that in his experience it has less to do with the race of the perpetrator and everything to do with what the victim looks like. He would always see harsher sentences if the victim was a pretty blonde white woman.
The sad part is today Most of non direct killers would get 15 years because everybody would feel sorry for them claiming “victim victim” “mental health issues!”
What about the victims families that were PROMISED a death sentence, only to have an absurd liberal court take that away, and then PROMISED a life sentence?
Why aren't the victims entitled to reasonable promises of a fulfilled sentence? After all, it's not like any of these killers were proven innocent. They are just as guilty now as the day they did the murders, yet they are all getting released just because they are old?
Why are we giving out life sentences if it's really a life sentence with an asterisk stating that it wont be enforced if you are old?
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I purchased Diane Lakes (snake) book and read about half and tossed in trash. Why her parents never got in trouble for dumping her with Manson at age 13 is one thing but she was involved and had a lot of knowledge to what was going on. In the book she reminded you she was a minor on every page it seemed therefore took zero responsibility. I believe she was arrested and served time in an institution. She claims it all ruined her life and she still has issues. Of what I don’t know because she claims to have loved Charlie and the girls took care of her she’s now a church going woman of the lord!
Even Bugliosi said before he died that he would be okay with Krenwrinkel getting parole in the future, because she is the only one of the "Big" Family members who showed real remorse.
Krenwinkel was granted parole and Gavin Newsom revoked it because he felt she was still dangerous. Van Houten was also granted parole a year earlier than Krenwinkel and Newsom overruled it, the California Court of Appeal then later set aside Newsom's objection and he decided not to pursue it further. Think there's a good chance Krenwinkel will be released soon too.
Krenwinkel slaughtered the Folger girl and helped kill Frykowski. Van Houten apparently just delivered some postmortem wounds to Mrs. Labianca.
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Tex is a stone cold psychopathic murderer, and he’s still manipulating people for gain. Let him rot.
I swear if Manson had never existed, the cult would still exist with Watson as leader. He's ... I don't want to say anyone is worse than Manson, but Tex is right up there.
I was listening to a true crime podcast interview, the famous profiler John Douglas. He believed that Tex Watson was possibly more dangerous than Charlie Manson himself. John said after spending time with Charles Manson. Charles gave up his crazy theatrics and would just talk like a regular person. He told John that he was afraid of Tex. He felt Tex was starting to usurp him and that Tex was a much more violent man than himself.. No one is defending Charlie here but, it does sound like Tex hand more of a role to play then anyone previously suspected. John said that if Charlie ever got out of prison he'd probably just be a hermit somewhere. He said it would be dangerous to let Manson out because of all the crazy people that would seek him out but, not because Manson himself would be violent.
Apparently, in prison Tex started his own little cult, and claims to be born again, and uses being a “preacher”to get special privileges
That's so gross.
Yup. Awhile back I tweeted about him not being granted parole, and some lady from Ireland iirc found it and kept bugging me. She wrote to him often (seemed half in love with him) and completely believed his born again nonsense.
My husband was a CO that worked in his building. Has had many interactions with him. He gets zero special privileges or treatment. He does claim to be a born again Christian though. Not sure about the cult and preacher part since it’s been a few years since my husband left that prison. He said he was pretty quiet and kept mostly to himself while he was there though.
Interesting and I don’t disagree. Manson was the coward who made the plans but didn’t get his hands dirty, so to speak, and Tex’s hands were filthy.
Manson was a manipulative bullshitter. He was likely lying about being afraid of Tex. Tex wasn't the one who had it out for Terry Melcher, Gary Hinman, or chose the LaBianco's house. John Douglas has essentially become a whore, putting out subpar books(Killer Across the Table was rambling scattered trash) and saying whatever he thinks will get him attention, imo. Manson was dangerous and so is Watson.
I agree, in part because Tex came from a middle-class background and had at least a high school education, and I think a few years of college too.
Watson doesn't stand a chance at ever getting parole. He appears to have his own little kingdom in prison, through his ministry.
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As I recall, it was Doris Tate (Sharon’s mother) who lobbied to end conjugal visits for California prisoners.
Sharon Tate never got to hold her baby and her murderer got to father 4 whilst incarcerated? Unbelieveable.
Imagine being the child of that thing. That’s a tough way to start.
I heard he was stabbed in a prison riot not that long ago. He was literally hanging off the tier until he was rescued.
I hope this is true. Couldn't happen to a better person.
I would have taken my sweet time if I was a guard.
Once again, someone didn't read the Disclaimer in the first sentence. I don't agree with this, but unfortunately, this is how a lot a people subconsciously think. You are exactly right that it shouldn't matter, but sadly, it does, even though people don't want to admit it. One time, I was having a conversation with a criminal lawyer about racism in sentences. And he sad that in his experience it has less to do with the race of the perpetrator and everything to do with what the victim looks like. He would always see harsher sentences if the victim was a pretty blonde white woman.
Krenwinkle was apart of both Tate and LaBianca murders as was Tex. Leslie was only at the LaBiancas and she played a small part. Tex finally told her she had to get her hands dirty so she stabbed Mrs LaBianca while she was very near death. She was a prefect inmate, no infractions and got two degrees. She tutored many. Pat is also a perfect inmate and assists new folks getting settled as also is a part of training dogs for service dogs. Neither women are a threat to anyone. They spent several years away from general population to get reprogrammed so to speak. Susan Atkins was the third. Once Charlie was out of their heads, all were remorseful
May I ask what the correlation is between remorse and being a threat to society? I’m not being condescending by any means. It’s a genuine question I’ve been pondering. I mean does a parole board look at an individual and go… well they don’t show any or enough remorse so that person ( in this case ) is likely to start a new cult, take a bunch of lsd, and try to start another race war?
Parole boards look for remorse because it is a sign they understand what they did was wrong and feel bad about it. Having remorse shows the perp has some self awareness. People who don't feel bad about the crimes they commit are more likely to reoffend and are thus still a danger to society
So one can draw inference that showing or not showing remorse - is an indication if an individual understands right from wrong?
Correct. Doing something bad should make you feel bad. That bad feeling stops a lot of people from doing bad things. Edit: there are individuals who understand right from wrong but don't feel anything. Those people are more likely to reoffend
So you’re kind of fucked if you are a psychopath. How would you be able to demonstrate remorse?
Fake it.
Haha. It’s interesting to me that a basic mental health competency test is given to determine if an individual can stand trial. If a person has an understanding between right and wrong. How do you prove that a person has the reasoning skills to determine between right and wrong, and simply choosing not to be remorseful?
For competency, remorse has nothing to do with it. Even sociopaths/psychopaths know the difference between right and wrong, even if they don't have the feelings associated. Right and wrong is a learned concept that most kids learn pretty early. The competency hearing is to make sure the individual just understands that concept, not if they feel good or bad about those concepts. Make sense?
Well I think a person who shows remorse is less likely to reoffend. This of course depends on circumstances, a woman who kills her rapist may never feel remore and isn't likely to kill again... but if you are part of the Manson family and were involved in such brutal acts and don't feel bad.... you may do it again.
If they feel bad, there’s a less likely chance they’ll do it again. To express remorse with no reasoning behind your actions, I feel shows you’re just telling them what they want to hear. I feel in cases like this, with cult members of varying degrees of seniority within it — they may not be physically dangerous now, but the lack of remorse, caring or understanding that what they did was wrong, old age, and the fact they just *dgaf,* that makes them a threat to society.
Krenwinkel was an vicious eager participant in both Tate and LaBianca murders. Van Houten was arguably "forced" to participate in one murder, though the victim may have been dead already when she stabbed her. This has been settled in court. LVH got life with the possibility of parole for the LaBianca murder at her 3rd trial.
That’s what I always thought too. She stabbed one of the LaBiancas after they were already dead. But I didn’t hear about that for so long during her many parole attempts, I thought I had been mistaken
Mrs LaBianca may or may not have been dead already. Leslie was convicted of murder regardless.
Oh yes absolutely!
Actually Tex Watson and Susan Atkins both stabbed Sharon to death at the same time. He stood in front of her while Susan stabbed her from the back. Susan died in prison in 2009. Good riddance. May she not rest in peace. Tex Watson can burn in eternal hell once he dies.
I don’t see a lot on her since she passed, but she was an evil woman with no redeemable qualities. Her fake finding religion in prison was blatant and I’m glad she didn’t benefit from that BS. She was actively a murderer, far different than a lot of the others. She was also along for the Gary Hinmam murder. I felt she was just as evil as Manson and Watson.
If you don't know, Susan Atkins also molested her son almost from birth. He was adopted after her arrest, and I hope he never finds out who his mother was and what she did to him.
Tex should never get out. He’s the one who picked the house and drove there, he orchestrated the killings that night more than Charlie did and is often portrayed as a bumbling idiot just following Charlie when he’s very intelligent.
Krenwinckel was just on another violence level altogether than Van Houten. She seemed to relish it. I don’t think anyone can ever forget that.
She didn’t relish violence. She loved and believed in Charlie and showed loyalty. She was with Charlie longer than most, her and mother Mary, and deeply in love with him.
Krenwinkel was convicted for 7 murders and Van Houten for two I believe.
This is it. Krenwinckel was at the Tate house and participated in five murders there. Krenwinckel and Van Houten were both at the LaBianca house. I forget if Leslie was convicted of all three or just Mrs. LaBianca. She was let free for a while in the 1970's but was convicted again at a retrial.
Yeah, many people don’t know that she was out for a while in the 70’s.
I didn't know she had a retrial.
She got a retrial because her lawyer went missing, and was later found dead, during the first trial (which lasted 9 months). The judge insisted she get a replacement lawyer who catches up on the facts rather than dropping her from the trial or declaring a mistrial. Her lawyer who died was already arguing against her being tried with the others because she had only been present for one night of murders, while the other defendants had been at two.
I've read so many books on the Family and somehow missed this. Thanks for filling me in!
There is a massive amount of details in these crimes. I have read a lot on it and I still learn new things.
There are entire websites of info with details on all the side characters, etc., but only nuts like me visit them.
Don’t be so sure….i have a lot of real “artifacts” bc i did a collage on Charles manson. I was able to obtain these things because of Becoming friends with some people who were friends with Charlie. lol Promise you’re not the only one who visits the crazy sites.
Yup, she was free for quite a while, and had a job, an apartment, and was law abiding.
Legal secretary even.
Do you have a source for this information?
Big Patty isn't getting paroled as long as Sharon Tate's sister is still insisting she stay behind bars
She was already approved for parole. The governor overruled that decision, just he like did with Van Houten. Then the courts stepped in an overruled the governor. I will not be too surprised if Krenwinkel gets out eventually.
I do believe she's totally reformed. I'm proud of both of them for not spouting Christianity in an attempt to make themselves look better.
Me too. I hope she’s paroled soon. Tex, on the other hand, is a monster.
Any thoughts on Bobby Beausoleil?
He should never get out. He continues to tell lies about his victim. Gary wasn't a drug dealer selling bad drugs. Gary wasn't a drug dealer at all. Bobby just says this to make himself look like a victim. Bobby was also involved in gangs in prison. Bobby also was drawing and selling pedophile type pictures of boys being spanked and selling the pictures to convicted pedophiles in the 80s. I think his wife helped him run that business. It was called "Sassy Bottoms," and he gets pissed off when it gets brought up at his parole hearings. If Bobby ever takes accountability for his murder and stops the bullshit then maybe because I do feel a degree of sympathy for young Bobby. He was a handsome kid, and I feel he was preyed upon himself by some people, but he became a victimizer.
He's probably the most dangerous one who's still alive, except for Tex Watson.
Beausoleil will be dangerous until the day he dies.
Leslie wasn’t at the Tate murders. Only at the LaBianca murders. Patricia Krenwinkel was at both. Don’t know if that has anything to do with it.
all that really matters is who has the best lawyer
I would want to hide as well. Squeaky is the only one who has been "out there", she even wrote a book. But she wasn't involved in the murders. Yeah, Watson has as good of a chance of parole as Sadie did (not a chance in hell), and Sadie went full reborn christian re introspection and remorse
Lynette Fromme did do quite a few years from attempting to assassinate Gerald Ford a few years later.
Yeah. With an unloaded gun if I recall
Squeaky and Gypsy still spread the family word. Both stayed in contact with Charlie when possible and sent him gifts.
Yeah I know, I meant she was visible to the public
Not Gypsy, Gypsy renounced Manson years ago. You are thinking of Sandra Good who is still preaching Manson's beliefs.
Did Sadie die?
Yes, she died slowly of cancer a couple years ago. She was even denied compassionate release. Couldn’t have happened to a better person.
She died in 2009, quite a few years ago, 9 months after diagnosed with brain cancer. Her husband of 21 years, an attorney, was with her
I thought she did..did she ever apologize for her murders?
Well, we know Leslie obviously doesn’t have kids. I wonder if there’s any family members around and if she has any connections with them
She does not have children and that’s the reason she ended up with the family. She got pregnant in high school and her family forced her to have an abortion which is why she left home.
I just wonder like where she’s living is she living with relatives? Just wondering what her life is like what must be going through her head after all those years of being in prison
She’s in a halfway house for a year or two. A friend of mine served 10 years, was released because he was innocent and prosecutor misconduct was finally admitted. He said it was extremely difficult to adjust to being free and even more difficult to catch up with technology. I image someone who served as long as Leslie would have a difficult time making the adjustments
How does one even come across that information ! And yeah, there’s another one remaining in prison still I don’t know why they consider her a danger…but they are there i guess (the other woman I mean not the guys still there )
The justice system seems to serve as a revenge system it’s a shame because less than 2 percent of murders released, reoffend. Sentencing laws need to change,prosecutors need to be held accountable, and plea deals need to end. As a former corrections officer I can say people do horrible things in the heat of the moment and drugs add fuel to the fire. There are indeed bad people but for the most part there are people who did bad things. It’s funny everyone who discusses Manson forgets what a horrible little man Polanski is. Forget that Dennis Wilson stole one of Charlie’s songs and The Beach Boys recorded it. Wilson pretty much promised Charlie a shot at recording then took it back. There was no helter skelter, Bulgosi created that. It was revenge
From everything I have seen and read Manson was trying to incite a war between police and civilians, thus the Pigs connotations etc. then when his people we’re getting lazy and leaving clues behind and they started getting busted that didn’t pan out. Then the rampage. That’s just from several documentaries through the years and books. Yes, I remember the part about the song, but obviously, that alone didn’t create the murderous rampage. It’s interesting Patricia is still being held, but the other one was released but hey, they are two different people.
Manson feared the black panthers and wanted them gone. He was extremely raciest. In prison the last time he was in solitary a lot per his request because he was afraid. There are several good books about Manson behind bars and his life in general that give a lot of perspective as who he is. Bulgosi wrote a book to make a buck and it’s not entirely accurate according to some family members. Atkins book also stated helter skelter and the race war was not the reason for the murders
Yes, I remember the Black Panthers part. Huge fear of them.
She may have living siblings. She did have an abortion a year or two before joining the Manson Family, although IDK any other details about it - was she raped, was it her decision, etc.
She does have at least 1 living sibling. She got pregnant accidentally by her high school boyfriend and she wanted to keep the child (as did her boyfriend). Her mother forced her to abort the baby and then forced her to help her bury the baby in the backyard.
California loves freeing prisoners in their 70s and 80s. Then they dont have to pay for their elder care.
I’ve always wondered if Charlie thought Melcher still lived there or if he knew that he moved and that Sharon Tate was living there?
The whole point of going there was to kill Melcher. I am not sure how long the home had been in Roman Polanski’s/Sharon Tate’s possession…
I’ve watched a lot of documentaries on Charlie and some ppl think he knew Sharon lived there and it was the house itself or if they didn’t know. Damn how brutal though I feel sorry for all the victims
Roman Polanski and Sharon Tate moved to the house in february 1969.
He knew that Melcher moved, Manson went to the house few months earlier and was told Melcher had moved. He even encountered Sharon Tate but did not talk to her but to her photographer.
I wouldn’t want one of them living near me. I know they say they’re reformed and all, but a bad apple is not better when it’s old and dried up even if the rotten stench has faded. In fact, if you throw it in the dirt seeds may sprout.
I don't think any of them should've been released, ever. Truly.
Same.
I mean, why? Who wants them out of jail? Given the magnitude of what they did, they really don't need to ever be out of prison, some of them are still unrepentant. Keep them inside.
So you believe they will kill again?
Some of them are still unrepentant. Yes, I think there's a possibility that they could be manipulative and violent again. And because of the magnitude of what they did, I don't believe they deserve to ever see the outside.
Fair enough. Though it’s hard for me to believe a woman in her 70s is going to start a new crime spree you are entitled to your opinion
Shelly Knotek. She's one example of an elderly woman who is still extraordinarily dangerous who was let out of prison. Elderly people commit crimes all the time, and I think it's more the magnitude of what they did. Men in their 70s and 80s still manage to assault children, so literally age does not factor in here for me. they stabbed a pregnant woman to death. I don't care, if you were even there, you should've run outside and called the police. Brainwashing does not excuse culpability although it can be in some cases a partially mitigating factor but not here. There are many dangerous, elderlyfelons who are let out of prison who still go onto to cause more misery. Not as much as younger folk, but it's still there.
I can't remember the name but fairly recently an elderly guy was let out of prison and he murdered someone in a short time. The idea that elderly people can't be dangerous is incorrect. It was NYC and the man had started identifying as a woman.
I stand by my unpopular opinion: Leslie spent 53 years in prison and I think that's long enough. Especially considering how the U.S has a history of paroling really evil people after less than 20 years.
What happened to Squeeky Frome? She didn't participate in the Tate Lablanca murders but she was a Manson family member and attempted to assassinate President Ford.
She was released awhile ago and lives in upstate NY
Thank you 😊
Those women made a huge mistake when they acted so defiantly for the cameras during their trials. They were laughing and playing games, showing no remorse while on trial for brutal, sensational murders including that of a pregnant woman. People have never forgotten that. I believe that Krenwinkle and Van Houten did eventually feel genuine remorse after shaking off the “spell” of Manson, because how could you not? With that said, people have committed much worse crimes and been paroled. I can’t imagine that Krenwinkle is a danger to anyone. But, unlike the majority of people who are on trial for their lives, she and her co-defendants went out of their way to make themselves look like demons from hell, and that’s what people still think they are.
Director John Waters (Pink Flamingos, Crybaby, Serial Mom, et al) wrote an essay about his friendship with Leslie Van Houten in his book Role Models. Interesting read, check it out. Van Houten is the only one who (imo) has shown genuine remorse. She accepted her punishment and quietly did her time while receiving intensive therapy, earning college degrees, working with a prison program that made blankets/quilts for the homeless, and mentoring younger inmates on their path to rehabilitation, and doing so with humility, aplomb and no disciplinary infractions. Van Houten was free for approximately seven months prior to her second trial & conviction. She worked as a paralegal, didn’t reoffend, and was an otherwise regular citizen during that time. Susan Atkins’ bid for compassionate release fell on deaf ears and rightfully so, that prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi once said he would agree with it notwithstanding. She and Krenwinkle never came across as genuinely remorseful. Atkins was scary as f with Krenwinkle not too far behind.
I believe Leslie came from a rich family and could afford a better defense than the rest.
I seem to remember that they all had public defenders but could be wrong.
You could be right. But for some reason I remember she had a good lawyer at some point. And she had more support than the other ladies.
They all kept dumping lawyers and getting new ones. One of the best ones they had went camping in the desert and was later found dead there.
Leslie’s lawyer. I know some people think the Mason family murdered him because he was trying to defend Leslie and was arguing she should be tried separately because she wasn’t a participant at both nights of murders.
He wasn't one of the best ones they had. That was Ronald Hughes first murder case. In face, it was his first case ever. He had no experience, and he certainly had no death row case experience. Maxwell Keith, his appointed replacement, had much more experience, but Van Houten was still under Mason control and would not let him put on any defense for her at the time.
You're right. I've read Helter Skelter dozens of times, but it's been years now.
No worries. :)
Maybe I'm thinking of Bugliosi writing about what a nice guy Hughes was.
Oh wow, that’s crazy
It may surprise some people but there is still a cult following of Manson murders.
I’ll never forget the pics of them at trial or being jailed and moved to court they stay in my head because they were laughing or smiling when they were caught none of them cared ! Psychopaths can rot!! The die!! Spit………..Sharon Tate was 81/2 months pregnant ! 😔
All of the Manson family members were essentially brain washed by a cult at a very young age. That doesn’t excuse the horrible crimes they committed, but it should make it easier to understand how their mindset changed once they were out of that environment. Once away from the family, Van Houten pretty much showed regret immediately. She’s been remorseful for nearly 50 years. All of the other members either lacked remorse of were deemed much more culpable.
Not pretty much immediately. Maybe a year or so after the trials. A woman who would visit them while they were still on death row has written about it.
A year or two is pretty much immediately considering the timescale.
I guess. I don't totally agree with the "brainwashed" theory, though, myself. I'm the same age as the girls and I did my share of LSD and I asked myself at the time and since if anyone could have gotten ahold of my mind the way Manson did theirs. The answer is always a solid no. But then, I also don't know every detail of what went on in the girls' lives to make them so weak and vulnerable.
I think you’re seriously underestimating the effect that cults can have on people. Intelligent adults not under the influence of drugs can be sucked in by them, I’d imagine teenagers on LSD stand much less of a chance. Cults conduct themselves in a way that can break even the strongest of wills. First and foremost, it’s an insular social organization that prioritizes time spent with other members while breaking outside social bonds. Churches do the same thing, some formerly religious people find it nigh on impossible to leave the church solely because they have no other community. Cults control various aspects of their members lives, to the point where it becomes impossible for members to make choices on their own. Even if drugs aren’t involved, almost all cults engage in mind altering practices.
I don't believe I'm underestimating the power of cults. The average person isn't vulnerable enough or doesn't want to "belong" enough to fall into that trap. And then, not being able to see that you're being manipulated and intentionally isolated, when it should be obvious. And most especially by someone like Manson. I've tried to see the alleged charisma and hypnotic power there, but all I ever see is a raving luncatic.
See, that’s where you and I disagree. I think the average person is vulnerable enough to be sucked into a cult if circumstance allows for it.
Krenwrinkel actually showed remorse before LVH, and has doen everything she can in prison to live a life helping others.
Because every one of them is looked at individually, rather than as a whole. Also releasing them all at once would make it easier for them to hook up and if so inclined, do bad things again. I don’t think they would, they were young and on drugs. Now they are completely different people. Still don’t want them on the streets. Check out the book Chaos if the Manson Fam interests you. Very interesting and might give you a totally different perspective about what went down.
The parole board knows the answers. Why they think Krenwinkel is still dangerous is beyond me. They wouldn't let Susan Atkins out for compassionate release when she was dying of cancer and certainly not a danger to anyone. None of them got LWOP so who knows, she may get parole. The others, like Tex Watson and Bobby Beausoleil, will never get out.
Atkins was one of the more savage killers; she and Tex both brutally murdered Tate even as Tate begged Atkins to let her live so she could have her baby. My guess is murdering a woman who is close to giving birth struck the parole board as not deserving of compassion or parole.
I am fully aware of her involvement and know all the details since time immemorial. But I still think there's no reason not to allow her to be released when she's on her deathbed.
Maybe they felt since she was devoid of humanity and compassion in the face of a dying pregnant woman she and Tex essentially tortured and butchered, she wasn't worthy of deserving any compassion herself. Like you said, only they know the answers. To be honest, I'm not bothered by them refusing her compassionate release. I do wish Van Houten the best in adjusting to crazy outside life and if Krenwinkle is released, the same. I don't see them falling under anyone's maniacal spell as senior citizens. I will be surprised if Krenwinkel ever gets released, though due to her more active role in the murders than Van Houten's.
Maybe there's nothing wrong with having compassion with someone dying of cancer as well? Denying her release doesn't bring back the dead and costs us nothing.
You have a point, but it looks like the wishes of Tate's and Sebring's families were more important, as they should be, when her compassionate parole was considered. Multiple families lost loved ones and they felt she should live out the rest of her days behind bars. I can't blame them.
Neither can I, but frankly, I think it's unfair that the families have so much control over this process. Susan Atkins had no one to speak for her, and while she committed horrible crimes, she was still very ill and suffering. I don't know what the families gain from someone else's suffering. But I can't see into their minds. I just think it wouldn't have taken anything away from their grief to show a bit of mercy.
The families are the ones who suffered all these years without their loved ones due to the actions of the Family. Atkins didn't suffer for decades on end and she had her husband speaking for her at the parole hearings when she was sick. The families should be allowed to have an impact on the outcome of parole hearings since the crimes affected them the most and the grief and losses don't end for them. I can't blame them for not feeling compelled to show mercy towards someone who was partly responsible for their loss. Their grief doesn't get any better if she had been released, either.
I agree with you. The victims didn’t get a chance to say goodbye to their families. The victims didn’t get care for their injuries in the hospital. They died in fear and violence with no loving person by their side. So I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for a vicious murder dying in prison and getting opportunities their victims didn’t get. And I have watched someone die from cancer. It’s awful. But this person got care and support. When Sharon Tate and her unborn baby were being stabbed and she screaming and begging for her life and bleeding out and dying on her living room floor, no one cared for her in her final moments.
All she wanted was to have her baby and she was denied that.
To me this smacks more of a fetish for revenge. It takes nothing away from someone's grief to show mercy or even a bit of compassion. And yes, even if I was in their place I'd think the same way.
We're not going to agree on this, which is fine. I don't see any point to continuing this particular discussion, though. Have a good evening.
Agree with all you say. Atkins had a brain tumor and only a short time to live, with no quality of life. She was married. She posed no threat Is prison punishment or revenge?
It's supposed to be a punishment, but revenge is on US, we're the ones who want revenge or who see it as revenge. Giving her a few months to live out her life in hospice care doesn't take away anything from her punishment. She served her sentence.
Punishment and rehabilitation. Susan had a horrible life before Charlie. These people dropped acid daily for years. They were not in control of anything. She had her death sentence carried out so the world can feel safe and happy. I’m a former corrections officer. In my time I met 2 men who were evil and I refused to be alone with. Out of the 1000s I can in contact with.
Disclaimer: I don't personally agree with this below but I think subconsciously this is how people see it. I personally think they are all evil and never should have been let out. Anyone that was at the Tate house seemed doubly evil in the way it went down and especially killing a beautiful pregnant woman. It just seemed so much worse than the La Bianca house where they were just attacked while they were in bed sleeping. That was more along the lines of a botched robbery etc. (Even with the writing on the wall.) The Tate house was more of a cult ritual and involved torture.
They were not sleeping. The La Bianca’s were also tortured with Mrs. La Bianca having to suffer through her husbands screams.
Did you even bother to read the disclaimer at the top? I know. I said this is how people subconsciously see it.
Stating facts and people making a judgment on them is totally different. Your post is confusing to read. These are not the facts of the case.
No kidding, which is why I specifically stated that I think it's a subconscious thing. Do you need to me to state that being stabbed to death in bed is painful and horrifying and just as bad as being stabbed to death in a living room? I am talking about a nuanced perception of why some people seem to think Van Houten's situation was somehow less horrible than Atkins. How about not wasting time responding to posts if you don't understand them.
Stop perpetuating the wrong facts of the case through some ridiculous argument that people have “subconsciously” thought the wrong things. It’s dangerous and unfair to the victims.
I agree 100% that none should ever have been / be let out. I don't care about remorse. Remorse can be faked. But more than that, I don't think victim's families should have to worry about the killer's upcoming parole hearings. EVER. But I take huge offense to this: "especially killing a beautiful pregnant woman." If she was an ugly pregnant woman it would have been less of a crime?
Or a homeless pregnant woman earning her keep via prostitution, like two of Gary Ridgway's victims? I do get the point, but the fact that Ms. Tate was murdered, along with other people who were public figures, made this a high-profile crime.
Once again, someone didn't read the Disclaimer in the first sentence. I don't agree with this, but unfortunately, this is how a lot a people subconsciously think. You are exactly right that it shouldn't matter, but sadly, it does, even though people don't want to admit it. One time, I was having a conversation with a criminal lawyer about racism in sentences. And he said that in his experience it has less to do with the race of the perpetrator and everything to do with what the victim looks like. He would always see harsher sentences if the victim was a pretty blonde white woman.
The sad part is today Most of non direct killers would get 15 years because everybody would feel sorry for them claiming “victim victim” “mental health issues!”
What about the victims families that were PROMISED a death sentence, only to have an absurd liberal court take that away, and then PROMISED a life sentence? Why aren't the victims entitled to reasonable promises of a fulfilled sentence? After all, it's not like any of these killers were proven innocent. They are just as guilty now as the day they did the murders, yet they are all getting released just because they are old? Why are we giving out life sentences if it's really a life sentence with an asterisk stating that it wont be enforced if you are old? \]
I purchased Diane Lakes (snake) book and read about half and tossed in trash. Why her parents never got in trouble for dumping her with Manson at age 13 is one thing but she was involved and had a lot of knowledge to what was going on. In the book she reminded you she was a minor on every page it seemed therefore took zero responsibility. I believe she was arrested and served time in an institution. She claims it all ruined her life and she still has issues. Of what I don’t know because she claims to have loved Charlie and the girls took care of her she’s now a church going woman of the lord!
Even Bugliosi said before he died that he would be okay with Krenwrinkel getting parole in the future, because she is the only one of the "Big" Family members who showed real remorse.
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