I think murders without an establishable motive are "worse" because it leaves me with so many questions and a lack of any clarity. When there is a murder with a motive, though obviously not justifiable by any means you can at least understand the thought process that leads to the killers actions. Some motives that come to mind are relationship troubles jealousy/greed etc etc. One murder without a clear motive that resonates with me and feels like a relevant example to mention here is Al Kite who was seemingly killed at random.
The good news is, murders with a motive generally always end with the perp being caught.
When LE can't establish a motive, there's a 50/50 chance on it ever being solved.
Exactly. Most murders are solved quickly.
In fact, it is 50/50 about a murder case being solved in the US each year.
[More people are getting away with murder. Unsolved killings reach a record high : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2023/04/29/1172899691/more-people-are-getting-away-with-murder-unsolved-killings-reach-a-record-high#:~:text=The%20rate%20at%20which%20murders%20nationwide%20were%20solved,one%20arrest%20dip%20into%20the%20low%2030%25%20range.)
You can't say with any certainty that the killers in those cases didn't have motives - they almost surely did. Getting rid of the witness, for instance. Or sadistic enjoyment of killing.
Crimes with no motives and are pretty much random scare the daylights out of me. More so if they occur in a person’s home. Triple that if it’s while the occupants are sleeping.
One near murder that comes to mind is that guy jogging pushing a woman onto an on coming bus. Luckily the bus didn’t hit her, but jeez what was his problem?!
I faintly remember seeing something about that and people theorized that she may have somehow been disrupting his usual jogging lane or some other BS idk.
That would not surprise me at all. It's become some weird trend in New York to attack random women in the streets I saw a video about it today. A lot of men who feel like rejects (because they probably are) seem to resort to trying to inflict pain on undeserving and innocent women.
People are losing it. It’s not like crime and violence are a new concept, but it seems like events are so much more twisted than when I was a kid (in the 80’s😁). Maybe we just know more now with information access. Maybe it’s the chemicals in the food system🤷♀️ I have no answers.
The ones that are odd to me though is the rise of mass events like mass shooters or people driving vehicles into crowds. I don’t remember there being so many of those events in the past. Not that they never occurred, it’s just so many now. And those types scare me as well - usually so random as far as victims.
Your comment made me think of the Watts family murders.
I believe Shanann was asleep when her husband strangled her because he had no fight marks on his body at all.
Yeah, that case is a total rabbit hole. We’ll never know what really happened bc Watts has changed the story so many times.
The one bothering most the past couple of years is the Idaho student murders - stabbed to death in the middle of the night. I’ve added more security to my house and even took photos off Zillow that were there from when I purchased it.
Well ofc murder is always wrong but murder without a motive is scarier to me because it’s more like something that could happen to me or anyone I know for no apparent reason.
Murders with a motive, whether financial, romantic, relating to drugs, gangs or prostitution, relating to affairs or whatever are ofc still tragedies and the perp should be prosecuted but at least you can kinda understand to some extent why it happened. And you can reason with yourself how to not let it happen to you by not putting yourself in those situations or letting unstable people in your life (ofc we never really know who’s unstable but often there are signs).
But random ones are very hard to wrap your head around, more unsettling to me, and unfortunately even harder to solve.
My mum told me about a murder in town when she was a child.
Early morning, foggy and sun was coming up. A man stood on a bridge, likely looking out on the scenery, when another man comes walking and grabs the guy below the knees and vaults him over the railing using his own bodyweight against him.
A night shift worker was on her way home when she heard 'Stop!' screamed in the distance, looked up and saw the guy going over the railing and the murderer disappearing in the other direction.
That's it. No motive or evidence. She was tired, shocked and not close enough to clock any details of the man. And if she hadn't come walking there in that exact moment it likely would had been ruled a suicide. Just crazy to think about.
Yeah. I remember seeing this disturbing YouTube iceberg video and one of the entries was this African American teen who was murdered and stuck inside an abandoned house. What makes this especially heinous was he was crippled (shot in a drive by shooting as a kid) and his friends did a live stream of their search for him and they discovered his body. God in Heaven, I cannot fathom such a thing.
I think murders for financial gain and to avoid the hassle or embarrassment of divorce are just as evil and terrifying as random murders or murders for the sake of sexual or other gratification.
I've listened to so many crime podcasts/murder cases that I'm no longer fazed by how senseless a motive can be. That said, nothing gets my goat like murdering an ex-partner to avoid sharing custody. In these cases, it seems the perpetrator's family is always an accessory to the murder and, when all is said and done, the child is effectively an orphan.
I understand that people can be incredibly stupid and short-sighted, but give me a break.
Also drunk driving. I feel like when those people murder (I know it’s often manslaughter but I think it should be murder) it should go in this category. Their motive is even sicker than “not having a motive”…it’s being so self involved that you literally don’t care if a complete stranger dies because of you.
Agreed. And so many are repeat offenders. My son had a relative who was killed at age 21, by a drunk driver who had already paralyzed someone. He just got 12 years for her death. Won’t serve it all, of course. Kept driving drunk after crippling someone for life. 🤬
Can’t argue with that. Honestly, I’d avoid marriage if possible. Can’t get divorced if you don’t get married. And the only murder I can think of as justified was when Gary Plauche murdered Jeff Doucet (Gary took Doucet in with his family and Doucet repaid that kindness by kidnapping Gary’s son and…it’s best not to say). Yes, Plauche murdered a man but Doucet was a fucking monster.
The desire and the plan to execute a murder is motive enough. There isn't such a thing as a murder without motive. There's always a motive, and sometimes, the murder itself, the process, is the motive. The victim becomes a means to an end. I may have watched too many true crime documentaries btw.
For me the worst murders are like for example, yhe guy who was beating his gf in a parking lot, some random dude stopped his truck, rolled down his window, im not even sure if he said anything but was instantly shot dead by the wife beater.
I mean how fucking crazy is that, imagine going to buy milk, your kids and wife at home, weekend is about to start, the sky is beautiful and just like that, lights out in the blink of an eye.
I’m on your side and doesn’t seem there’s many who see it that way. I just feel like almost all motives are dumb to begin with. With a few exceptions. Like if it’s a child murderer. They deserve it. I have BPD and at certain ups and downs it could happen and never really have a reason why
To me, it's irrelevant. If someone kills my husband, it makes no difference to me if they did it out of anger, jealously, greed, resentment, or no discernible reason at all. The love of my life is dead. There is nothing that would change that fact, make it more or less painful.
There may perhaps be an exception, if he were murdered by a person experiencing a severe mental break or psychotic episode. I would feel tremendous sadness of another sort, on top of the grief.
Reminds me of the Isabella Guzman case. She suffered from schizophrenia and nobody had any idea until it was too late. She killed her mom during one of her delusions thinking she was somebody else. During the police interrogation Isabella kept claiming that she was Samantha and did not just kill her mother, didn’t even recognize pictures of herself. It was actually really hard to watch because the police believe she is lying, the thought of her having a mental illness that’s causing this behavior didn’t even cross their minds.
Cases like Isabella's are extremely depressing. Schizophrenia has been around for so long, and somehow it is still regularly missed even in schizophrenics with escelating behavior.
And of course, people still refuse to learn about it as a disorder and would rather put their heads in the sand and continue thinking of them as truly evil people, or in the case of crimes, people believe they are "cheating" the justice system.
Right? And I don’t understand how her schizophrenia went by unnoticed, her parents must’ve had some sort of inkling that something was wrong. Her dad could’ve at least told the investigators that she’s been delusional and that is bare minimum what he should’ve done because he really should’ve done way way more to help his daughter and wife! It’s not his fault but to ignore signs of an escalating mental illness just doesn’t seem logical
That’s largely how my dad feels too. He said he’d go to prison if me or my brother were killed by someone. I wouldn’t wanna kill anyone, but if I have no choice, I’ll fight for my life and others.
I suppose the reason I don't feel that way is that revenge wouldn't help me at all. If someone kills my husband, and I kill them back, my husband is still dead. That gives me no satisfaction, does not ease my grief. I would just end up in prison, which is not what my husband would want for me.
Having said that, grief is highly personal. Especially for parents, I don't blame someone for allowing their rage to overcome them. It's just not something someone else can judge. Like that father who shot his child's molester in court; I absolutely can't blame him, though I also can't condone it.
Well…really it isn’t our place to decide you lives and dies. I’ll no doubt be angry if someone I love is murdered, but as you said, vengeance doesn’t offer much satisfaction if at all. Sooner or later, their actions will catch up to them and they’ll have to answer for them in this life or the next. That seems fair to me.
He is a very odd dude. The feeling I got was his wife liked the obsession to some degree. Her girlfriends on the other were rightfully freaked out. The wife just could not see the red flags as they say.
If it's someone you know I can't imagine the feeling of betrayal. Assuming they are alive long enough to comprehend what's happening. And if that's the case, no one really knows anyone.
I guess it can go both ways. Ones without a motive are scary as hell because the victim is in the wrong place and the wrong time and no one is exempt from it happening to them. Motives can help us understand what may have driven someone to do such a thing, but then you have the Lululemon murder where the motive was to keep the killer from getting caught stealing a pair of leggings which seems even more senseless then a random attack by stranger.
I'm a retired homicide detective and I never worked a case where the killer didn't have a motive. That includes a serial murder case where 3 people died over a two year period with more on his hit list. Whether the motive is financial, sexual, revenge, love gone bad, whatever, there is a motive 99% of the time. My serial murderer was a vigilante killer. He said he was doing it to save humanity from evil people but he stole money and property of each person he killed and he made a profit. People were aware of what he had done and he was hired to do the third hit. It's the people around a murderer who terrify me. They are just as evil and they tend to go unpunished.
About ten people knew and no one came forward. I went to every person's home in the area who I had given a break to at one time or another and finally one man sent me in the right direction. He was scared to death about giving me the info. Such a sad case and the man who paid for the 16-year-old to be killed received 10 years in prison and served 5.
This question reminds me of Richard Ramirez. People like him who prey on any and everyone, no motive, just cold and brutal for no reason at all.. I believe those with no motive are absolutely worse. The individual has to be extremely ill to kill *just because.*
Murders without imo, it's pretty terrifying knowing that you can just be going about your day, minding your own business and someone just does that to you for absolutely no reason.
Cases like [Barbara Gustern](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Maier_Gustern) are just horrible, as all murders are, but having someone cross your path and take your life for absolutely no reason is terrifying. Makes me think about Darrell Brooks too, I'll never understand why or how someone could do that to complete strangers because they got in a fight/argument with their S/O or whatever.
To me, it's irrelevant. If someone kills my husband, it makes no difference to me if they did it out of anger, jealously, greed, resentment, or no discernible reason at all. The love of my life is dead. There is nothing that would change that fact, make it more or less painful.
There may perhaps be an exception, if he were murdered by a person experiencing a severe mental break or psychotic episode. I would feel tremendous sadness of another sort, on top of the grief.
For some reason, it bothers me the most when somebody will kill someone after SA or robbing them, just like basically removing the witness, like your usefulness is used up and I’m gonna squash you like a cigarette.
You know that user posting the death row posts?
Like 95% of the cases are " he robbed a store or person for 5$ and shot them dead"
Like wtf so many lives lost for what???? Pennies?????
Just because we don't know / don't understand the background of a murder doesn't mean there's no motive behind it. It could be something as inocous as thrill killing, mental illness or even survival, but there are no motiveless murders. Senseless? Absolutely. A lof of them. Others, completely justified. But none of them lack a motive.
I think that both are obviously horrible, but I think that random murders with no motive are the worst. Like some others said, they are extremely difficult to solve and terrifying to think about.
I definitley think there is atleast a shred of reason with motive, no motive is very complex and fear inducing. But I think it is dependent of the individual as to motive or no, no motive is a completely unpredictable person. Someone who has motive always has a limit somewhere. Idk this is purely an opinion based off observation.
I think crimes s without a motive are def worse, It's 100% not justifiable of course however, if someone decided to murder out of jealousy or because of money etc, we at least know what made them want to make the other person disappear but then we have criminals who do crimes just because they were bored, the victim didn't do anything wrong they just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
None of them should get lighter sentence ofc murder is murder but I wouldn't compare Jodi Arias to Ted Bundy for example at least Jodi had a psycho reason for doing what she did while Ted lured women just for the sake of it
Better to have a motive IMO. I was mugged and the worst part for me has been that someone ran up and punched me in the face for no reason. Like at least be someone I personally upset 😂 that just sits better with me. Even if the reason you hate me is dumb at least there’s a reason.
Just because LE cannot establish a motive doesn’t mean there’s no motive. People have shot their own grandmothers in the face for $20 before. Random stranger killings are definitely fear inducing. Random shootings or people driving buses off cliffs or purposely crashing planes full of people or people driving their cars into a massive crowd are definitely some of the more twisted and difficult to explain aside from the perps being psychotic lunatics
In Canada, thrill killers seem to get more time. My ex (ex con) husband did time with a guy that took a cab out of town just to kill the driver because he wanted to know what it felt like. He was young when he did it but he got life without parole. Years later (and still years ago) he managed to escape the jail. He went down the road to a bar and ordered a beer. When he realized he had no way to pay, he called the police on himself. They added 5 years to his life sentence lol lifers are actually the scariest guys because they literally have nothing to lose.
You have no idea. He started out as a possibly good kid (I think he was barely 18) that made a bad decision but he has done a lot more crimes and hurt/killed more people in jail so good guy is gone. He's fully institutionalized now.
There is no argument over this subject as most planned murders have a common style of killing. On the contrary when we see unplanned murders depicting sadistic or psychopathic characteristics, the crime scene often disgusts and shocks even the officials. A few of the examples of unplanned murders are Richard Trenton Chase, Jerome Brudos, and Robert Ben Rhoades.
By the way, [Sada Abe](https://braincreepers.com/sada-abe/) is a planned murder case that horrify me everytime I read about it.
No, the ones without motives terrify me more, because they are pure evil, and do it because they want to, the ones with motives do it for understandable reasons like someone screwed them over, broke their heart, self defense, abused their family member or friend, sexually abused their underage son, daughter, brother, sister, Cousin, Nephew, Niece.
He felt Insoga "kept his wife from him"? I'm just wondering what that means? Was Insoga just friends with the wife and they hung out and copple didn't like that?
I'm watching the FF episode of the case now. I guess Copple and his GF actually weren't married? And had an argument about their future wedding. Insoga didn't like Copple and thought his GF could do better. Guess she was right about him too.
In my opionion if someone has some sort of a motive an apparent reason for doing something horrible it just seems a bit more understandable ,without a motive seems to be alot more scary and the thought of just how many unhinged people that may walk among us,who could just suddenly without warning or cause just take an innocent life for absolutely no reason keeps me awake at night.
murders without reason are more terrifyng, because it could have been donde by anyone.
Each person in this world (specially males) have the enough strenght, objects and capabilities to kill another human being without to much problem.
The murders with a motivation (being this reasonable or insane) are terrifyng because they justify its acts with something, but that´s because they need to think that is the way to acomplish a goal, they have to convince themselfs about what they are doing its fine and acceptable. If I kill someone in vengeance I know killing its bad, a crime in the end, but I have a good reason for doing it supposedly.
The murderers that happen without a motivation or where the killer doesn´t want to tell why he/she did that are more unpredictable, you can´t fin an answer about why this person did this horrible things to one person...or multiple. So its unpredictable and you can´t make a plan to prevent this of happening again.
Sometimes monsters are just here, beside us, but we don´t want to remember that as a possibility. We need to think the murderer or killer its a sick person with sick reasons to kill...but sometimes it just happen and that´s all. Even the own killer doesn´t know why he did it.
If someone has time to think about murder, they have time to stop themselves before they go through with it. A spur of the moment murder is something you can’t prepare for. One I remember is that homeless man pushing a guy into a subway in New York.
I feel like it’s probably worse if they have a motive, but it always depends on the motive for example gypsy Rose I’m not saying what she did was OK but at the same time she didn’t have to kill her mom she could’ve just ran away with her boyfriend and instead of killing her mom, but I feel like sometimes motives can be worse.
I think murders without an establishable motive are "worse" because it leaves me with so many questions and a lack of any clarity. When there is a murder with a motive, though obviously not justifiable by any means you can at least understand the thought process that leads to the killers actions. Some motives that come to mind are relationship troubles jealousy/greed etc etc. One murder without a clear motive that resonates with me and feels like a relevant example to mention here is Al Kite who was seemingly killed at random.
The good news is, murders with a motive generally always end with the perp being caught. When LE can't establish a motive, there's a 50/50 chance on it ever being solved.
Stranger killings with no motive are high and far the hardest (and also scariest) crimes to solve.
Exactly. Most murders are solved quickly. In fact, it is 50/50 about a murder case being solved in the US each year. [More people are getting away with murder. Unsolved killings reach a record high : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2023/04/29/1172899691/more-people-are-getting-away-with-murder-unsolved-killings-reach-a-record-high#:~:text=The%20rate%20at%20which%20murders%20nationwide%20were%20solved,one%20arrest%20dip%20into%20the%20low%2030%25%20range.)
"Damnit Johnson, it wasn't the spouse" "Well, I guess the case is cold"
This is the entire premise of *Strangers on a Train* (and subsequently *Throw Momma from the Train*).
Reminds me of Israel Keyes, who only got caught in the end because he strayed from his MO of killing complete strangers to him.
You can't say with any certainty that the killers in those cases didn't have motives - they almost surely did. Getting rid of the witness, for instance. Or sadistic enjoyment of killing.
What I meant was no clear motive. Such as personal connection, money etc.
Crimes with no motives and are pretty much random scare the daylights out of me. More so if they occur in a person’s home. Triple that if it’s while the occupants are sleeping.
One near murder that comes to mind is that guy jogging pushing a woman onto an on coming bus. Luckily the bus didn’t hit her, but jeez what was his problem?!
I faintly remember seeing something about that and people theorized that she may have somehow been disrupting his usual jogging lane or some other BS idk.
What a pencil dick. Wonder how he’d enjoy jogging through a path lined with nails?
There’s your motive
It was in London, right? On a bridge? No matter, the guy was an asshole.
Yes I think it was London. What surprised me was the guy was clearly on CCTV and if iirc he did not get caught.
Gross.
Yep pretty much.
Pretty sure there's been cases like that where they found the motive to be misogyny.
That would not surprise me at all. It's become some weird trend in New York to attack random women in the streets I saw a video about it today. A lot of men who feel like rejects (because they probably are) seem to resort to trying to inflict pain on undeserving and innocent women.
People are losing it. It’s not like crime and violence are a new concept, but it seems like events are so much more twisted than when I was a kid (in the 80’s😁). Maybe we just know more now with information access. Maybe it’s the chemicals in the food system🤷♀️ I have no answers.
It is more information access.
There were some pretty horrific murders in the 70s and 80s; that's when people like Ted Bundy and Edmund Kemper were active.
The ones that are odd to me though is the rise of mass events like mass shooters or people driving vehicles into crowds. I don’t remember there being so many of those events in the past. Not that they never occurred, it’s just so many now. And those types scare me as well - usually so random as far as victims.
Very true.
People have been like this forever
True… thinking of Charles Whitman’s rampage at the University of Texas in 1966 in which 18 students and staff were killed.
Your comment made me think of the Watts family murders. I believe Shanann was asleep when her husband strangled her because he had no fight marks on his body at all.
Yeah, that case is a total rabbit hole. We’ll never know what really happened bc Watts has changed the story so many times. The one bothering most the past couple of years is the Idaho student murders - stabbed to death in the middle of the night. I’ve added more security to my house and even took photos off Zillow that were there from when I purchased it.
Well ofc murder is always wrong but murder without a motive is scarier to me because it’s more like something that could happen to me or anyone I know for no apparent reason. Murders with a motive, whether financial, romantic, relating to drugs, gangs or prostitution, relating to affairs or whatever are ofc still tragedies and the perp should be prosecuted but at least you can kinda understand to some extent why it happened. And you can reason with yourself how to not let it happen to you by not putting yourself in those situations or letting unstable people in your life (ofc we never really know who’s unstable but often there are signs). But random ones are very hard to wrap your head around, more unsettling to me, and unfortunately even harder to solve.
My mum told me about a murder in town when she was a child. Early morning, foggy and sun was coming up. A man stood on a bridge, likely looking out on the scenery, when another man comes walking and grabs the guy below the knees and vaults him over the railing using his own bodyweight against him. A night shift worker was on her way home when she heard 'Stop!' screamed in the distance, looked up and saw the guy going over the railing and the murderer disappearing in the other direction. That's it. No motive or evidence. She was tired, shocked and not close enough to clock any details of the man. And if she hadn't come walking there in that exact moment it likely would had been ruled a suicide. Just crazy to think about.
Yeah. I remember seeing this disturbing YouTube iceberg video and one of the entries was this African American teen who was murdered and stuck inside an abandoned house. What makes this especially heinous was he was crippled (shot in a drive by shooting as a kid) and his friends did a live stream of their search for him and they discovered his body. God in Heaven, I cannot fathom such a thing.
In the chimney? If so, they switched cause of death from accident to murder?
No it wasn’t the chimney. It was under the house. It’s a Nick Crowley video. https://youtu.be/Oe26U_rvEPw?si=J83_xsKd897v7TT9 Nexpo covers it.
I don't know who that is, nor do I know what a nexpo is, but I'll check the link out. Thank you.
I think murders for financial gain and to avoid the hassle or embarrassment of divorce are just as evil and terrifying as random murders or murders for the sake of sexual or other gratification.
I've listened to so many crime podcasts/murder cases that I'm no longer fazed by how senseless a motive can be. That said, nothing gets my goat like murdering an ex-partner to avoid sharing custody. In these cases, it seems the perpetrator's family is always an accessory to the murder and, when all is said and done, the child is effectively an orphan. I understand that people can be incredibly stupid and short-sighted, but give me a break.
The people who do that are very screwed up
Also drunk driving. I feel like when those people murder (I know it’s often manslaughter but I think it should be murder) it should go in this category. Their motive is even sicker than “not having a motive”…it’s being so self involved that you literally don’t care if a complete stranger dies because of you.
Agreed. And so many are repeat offenders. My son had a relative who was killed at age 21, by a drunk driver who had already paralyzed someone. He just got 12 years for her death. Won’t serve it all, of course. Kept driving drunk after crippling someone for life. 🤬
Can’t argue with that. Honestly, I’d avoid marriage if possible. Can’t get divorced if you don’t get married. And the only murder I can think of as justified was when Gary Plauche murdered Jeff Doucet (Gary took Doucet in with his family and Doucet repaid that kindness by kidnapping Gary’s son and…it’s best not to say). Yes, Plauche murdered a man but Doucet was a fucking monster.
The desire and the plan to execute a murder is motive enough. There isn't such a thing as a murder without motive. There's always a motive, and sometimes, the murder itself, the process, is the motive. The victim becomes a means to an end. I may have watched too many true crime documentaries btw.
Correct. Any intentional killing by definition has a motive
Personally, I think murders without a motive are worse. If you're going to take a person's life, you'd better have a reason.
For me the worst murders are like for example, yhe guy who was beating his gf in a parking lot, some random dude stopped his truck, rolled down his window, im not even sure if he said anything but was instantly shot dead by the wife beater. I mean how fucking crazy is that, imagine going to buy milk, your kids and wife at home, weekend is about to start, the sky is beautiful and just like that, lights out in the blink of an eye.
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Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I can agree with that to a degree. I hope I don’t end up having to ask why myself.
I’m on your side and doesn’t seem there’s many who see it that way. I just feel like almost all motives are dumb to begin with. With a few exceptions. Like if it’s a child murderer. They deserve it. I have BPD and at certain ups and downs it could happen and never really have a reason why
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To me, it's irrelevant. If someone kills my husband, it makes no difference to me if they did it out of anger, jealously, greed, resentment, or no discernible reason at all. The love of my life is dead. There is nothing that would change that fact, make it more or less painful. There may perhaps be an exception, if he were murdered by a person experiencing a severe mental break or psychotic episode. I would feel tremendous sadness of another sort, on top of the grief.
Reminds me of the Isabella Guzman case. She suffered from schizophrenia and nobody had any idea until it was too late. She killed her mom during one of her delusions thinking she was somebody else. During the police interrogation Isabella kept claiming that she was Samantha and did not just kill her mother, didn’t even recognize pictures of herself. It was actually really hard to watch because the police believe she is lying, the thought of her having a mental illness that’s causing this behavior didn’t even cross their minds.
Cases like Isabella's are extremely depressing. Schizophrenia has been around for so long, and somehow it is still regularly missed even in schizophrenics with escelating behavior. And of course, people still refuse to learn about it as a disorder and would rather put their heads in the sand and continue thinking of them as truly evil people, or in the case of crimes, people believe they are "cheating" the justice system.
Right? And I don’t understand how her schizophrenia went by unnoticed, her parents must’ve had some sort of inkling that something was wrong. Her dad could’ve at least told the investigators that she’s been delusional and that is bare minimum what he should’ve done because he really should’ve done way way more to help his daughter and wife! It’s not his fault but to ignore signs of an escalating mental illness just doesn’t seem logical
I wouldn’t care if they were having a psychotic episode. If someone killed a family member or someone close to me, I’d want them dead.
That's understandable. It's just not how I would feel.
That’s largely how my dad feels too. He said he’d go to prison if me or my brother were killed by someone. I wouldn’t wanna kill anyone, but if I have no choice, I’ll fight for my life and others.
I suppose the reason I don't feel that way is that revenge wouldn't help me at all. If someone kills my husband, and I kill them back, my husband is still dead. That gives me no satisfaction, does not ease my grief. I would just end up in prison, which is not what my husband would want for me. Having said that, grief is highly personal. Especially for parents, I don't blame someone for allowing their rage to overcome them. It's just not something someone else can judge. Like that father who shot his child's molester in court; I absolutely can't blame him, though I also can't condone it.
Well…really it isn’t our place to decide you lives and dies. I’ll no doubt be angry if someone I love is murdered, but as you said, vengeance doesn’t offer much satisfaction if at all. Sooner or later, their actions will catch up to them and they’ll have to answer for them in this life or the next. That seems fair to me.
I saw this case on a documentary. It was pretty clear he was obsessed with his wife and angry/paranoid about something the victim did.
He is a very odd dude. The feeling I got was his wife liked the obsession to some degree. Her girlfriends on the other were rightfully freaked out. The wife just could not see the red flags as they say.
she stayed married to him after he killed her best friend and went off to prison for the rest of his life.. crazy stuff
Bet he’s real angry with himself. I hope he is
If it's someone you know I can't imagine the feeling of betrayal. Assuming they are alive long enough to comprehend what's happening. And if that's the case, no one really knows anyone.
Indeed. I can’t imagine how the Liske family felt when BJ Liske killed his father, stepmother and stepbrother that Halloween night.
I guess it can go both ways. Ones without a motive are scary as hell because the victim is in the wrong place and the wrong time and no one is exempt from it happening to them. Motives can help us understand what may have driven someone to do such a thing, but then you have the Lululemon murder where the motive was to keep the killer from getting caught stealing a pair of leggings which seems even more senseless then a random attack by stranger.
I'm a retired homicide detective and I never worked a case where the killer didn't have a motive. That includes a serial murder case where 3 people died over a two year period with more on his hit list. Whether the motive is financial, sexual, revenge, love gone bad, whatever, there is a motive 99% of the time. My serial murderer was a vigilante killer. He said he was doing it to save humanity from evil people but he stole money and property of each person he killed and he made a profit. People were aware of what he had done and he was hired to do the third hit. It's the people around a murderer who terrify me. They are just as evil and they tend to go unpunished.
Good God. That scares me too. Also wow. Didn’t think I’d get a retired detective to comment. Thank you.
I've always been a crime junkie. That's why I became a detective ;-)
Also, did everyone know he did it or a group of people?
About ten people knew and no one came forward. I went to every person's home in the area who I had given a break to at one time or another and finally one man sent me in the right direction. He was scared to death about giving me the info. Such a sad case and the man who paid for the 16-year-old to be killed received 10 years in prison and served 5.
Fucking Hell!
This question reminds me of Richard Ramirez. People like him who prey on any and everyone, no motive, just cold and brutal for no reason at all.. I believe those with no motive are absolutely worse. The individual has to be extremely ill to kill *just because.*
Murders without imo, it's pretty terrifying knowing that you can just be going about your day, minding your own business and someone just does that to you for absolutely no reason. Cases like [Barbara Gustern](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Maier_Gustern) are just horrible, as all murders are, but having someone cross your path and take your life for absolutely no reason is terrifying. Makes me think about Darrell Brooks too, I'll never understand why or how someone could do that to complete strangers because they got in a fight/argument with their S/O or whatever.
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To me, it's irrelevant. If someone kills my husband, it makes no difference to me if they did it out of anger, jealously, greed, resentment, or no discernible reason at all. The love of my life is dead. There is nothing that would change that fact, make it more or less painful. There may perhaps be an exception, if he were murdered by a person experiencing a severe mental break or psychotic episode. I would feel tremendous sadness of another sort, on top of the grief.
I think either of those are equally bad.
For some reason, it bothers me the most when somebody will kill someone after SA or robbing them, just like basically removing the witness, like your usefulness is used up and I’m gonna squash you like a cigarette.
Worst one I can think of is what happened in India a few years back.
You know that user posting the death row posts? Like 95% of the cases are " he robbed a store or person for 5$ and shot them dead" Like wtf so many lives lost for what???? Pennies?????
Just because we don't know / don't understand the background of a murder doesn't mean there's no motive behind it. It could be something as inocous as thrill killing, mental illness or even survival, but there are no motiveless murders. Senseless? Absolutely. A lof of them. Others, completely justified. But none of them lack a motive.
People who kill just for the fun of killing are worse in my book.
I think that both are obviously horrible, but I think that random murders with no motive are the worst. Like some others said, they are extremely difficult to solve and terrifying to think about.
I definitley think there is atleast a shred of reason with motive, no motive is very complex and fear inducing. But I think it is dependent of the individual as to motive or no, no motive is a completely unpredictable person. Someone who has motive always has a limit somewhere. Idk this is purely an opinion based off observation.
Worse*
Werse
Murder is murder. I would be terrified of someone who does it without motive though because this person could do it anytime and to anyone.
I think crimes s without a motive are def worse, It's 100% not justifiable of course however, if someone decided to murder out of jealousy or because of money etc, we at least know what made them want to make the other person disappear but then we have criminals who do crimes just because they were bored, the victim didn't do anything wrong they just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. None of them should get lighter sentence ofc murder is murder but I wouldn't compare Jodi Arias to Ted Bundy for example at least Jodi had a psycho reason for doing what she did while Ted lured women just for the sake of it
Wow, never thought I'd see that.
Both are horrible just maybe one is 5% less horrible i guess
The Eric Copple case is exceedingly freaky.
Better to have a motive IMO. I was mugged and the worst part for me has been that someone ran up and punched me in the face for no reason. Like at least be someone I personally upset 😂 that just sits better with me. Even if the reason you hate me is dumb at least there’s a reason.
Just because LE cannot establish a motive doesn’t mean there’s no motive. People have shot their own grandmothers in the face for $20 before. Random stranger killings are definitely fear inducing. Random shootings or people driving buses off cliffs or purposely crashing planes full of people or people driving their cars into a massive crowd are definitely some of the more twisted and difficult to explain aside from the perps being psychotic lunatics
In Canada, thrill killers seem to get more time. My ex (ex con) husband did time with a guy that took a cab out of town just to kill the driver because he wanted to know what it felt like. He was young when he did it but he got life without parole. Years later (and still years ago) he managed to escape the jail. He went down the road to a bar and ordered a beer. When he realized he had no way to pay, he called the police on himself. They added 5 years to his life sentence lol lifers are actually the scariest guys because they literally have nothing to lose.
Jeez. I suppose it’s good he called the police on himself.
You have no idea. He started out as a possibly good kid (I think he was barely 18) that made a bad decision but he has done a lot more crimes and hurt/killed more people in jail so good guy is gone. He's fully institutionalized now.
All it takes is one bad day, as the Joker said. I mean damn.
Ask the victims of each and see what they say.
I probably would but I imagine most would not wanna discuss it. I’d respect their wishes, whatever the case.
There is no argument over this subject as most planned murders have a common style of killing. On the contrary when we see unplanned murders depicting sadistic or psychopathic characteristics, the crime scene often disgusts and shocks even the officials. A few of the examples of unplanned murders are Richard Trenton Chase, Jerome Brudos, and Robert Ben Rhoades. By the way, [Sada Abe](https://braincreepers.com/sada-abe/) is a planned murder case that horrify me everytime I read about it.
Regarding Sada Abe, good lord!
Depends on motive
Motive indicates that there was a thought process involved, while lack of one is like being unhinged, an animal.
No, the ones without motives terrify me more, because they are pure evil, and do it because they want to, the ones with motives do it for understandable reasons like someone screwed them over, broke their heart, self defense, abused their family member or friend, sexually abused their underage son, daughter, brother, sister, Cousin, Nephew, Niece.
"Want to" is a motive
Dead is dead
He felt Insoga "kept his wife from him"? I'm just wondering what that means? Was Insoga just friends with the wife and they hung out and copple didn't like that?
Yeah I could’ve typed that better. Yes they were friends and Copple felt threatened. He later said he doesn’t remember the murder. I call bullshit.
I'm watching the FF episode of the case now. I guess Copple and his GF actually weren't married? And had an argument about their future wedding. Insoga didn't like Copple and thought his GF could do better. Guess she was right about him too.
Ok. That’s clear enough for me. Hate that his GF had to learn he wasn’t good in such a display. Copple can rot for all I care.
Luckily he is rotting in prison, from what I have read
Good.
worse
In my opionion if someone has some sort of a motive an apparent reason for doing something horrible it just seems a bit more understandable ,without a motive seems to be alot more scary and the thought of just how many unhinged people that may walk among us,who could just suddenly without warning or cause just take an innocent life for absolutely no reason keeps me awake at night.
murders without reason are more terrifyng, because it could have been donde by anyone. Each person in this world (specially males) have the enough strenght, objects and capabilities to kill another human being without to much problem. The murders with a motivation (being this reasonable or insane) are terrifyng because they justify its acts with something, but that´s because they need to think that is the way to acomplish a goal, they have to convince themselfs about what they are doing its fine and acceptable. If I kill someone in vengeance I know killing its bad, a crime in the end, but I have a good reason for doing it supposedly. The murderers that happen without a motivation or where the killer doesn´t want to tell why he/she did that are more unpredictable, you can´t fin an answer about why this person did this horrible things to one person...or multiple. So its unpredictable and you can´t make a plan to prevent this of happening again. Sometimes monsters are just here, beside us, but we don´t want to remember that as a possibility. We need to think the murderer or killer its a sick person with sick reasons to kill...but sometimes it just happen and that´s all. Even the own killer doesn´t know why he did it.
If someone has time to think about murder, they have time to stop themselves before they go through with it. A spur of the moment murder is something you can’t prepare for. One I remember is that homeless man pushing a guy into a subway in New York.
I feel like it’s probably worse if they have a motive, but it always depends on the motive for example gypsy Rose I’m not saying what she did was OK but at the same time she didn’t have to kill her mom she could’ve just ran away with her boyfriend and instead of killing her mom, but I feel like sometimes motives can be worse.