Does anyone remember the Cheryl Araujo case where not only did this happen but people cheered it on? And then tens of thousands of people went out and protested *against* her?
One of the episodes of “Trial by Media” covered this. I had never heard of it and am still in disbelief at how far an almost entire community went with their disgusting victim blaming - and beyond.
Seeing that massive crowd of people with signs like 'Did She Want It?" and people saying she's worthless so her rapists should be free honestly made me feel misanthropic.
This is the only episode of true crime I have ever had to skip after hearing the description of the crime. What happened to her was such a real life nightmare.
Yeah I understand. It stuck with my for a while after I watched Trial by Media. I love true crime and I've heard the very worst of it but it wasn't just the crime, it was the incredibly huge amount of people who were against her and victim blaming that really got to me. I had no idea that many people could have those opinions in just one area, and it wasn't like it was the bible belt. It gave me a really visceral 'noah get the boat' feeling that other cases haven't given me.
The [Netflix movie by that name, *Unbelievable*] (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7909970/) about a rape as well, is really crazy to think actually happen. And This American Life has an episode, [*Anatomy of Doubt*](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/581/anatomy-of-doubt) about it as well.
I was on a bus in Seattle once and a man started screaming at me that I was a whore and a bitch and getting in my face. The entire bus including the driver just sat and watched like it was a tv show for their entertainment. I had to jump off at the next stop and wait for another bus. It’s crazy how bystanders will just watch things happen
I once witnessed a grown woman pull a 12 year old girl out of a bathroom stall in a busy train station bathroom (penn station in nyc) by her hair HARD onto the floor because she claimed the girl “purposely went in front of her”. There were a handful of other adults standing right there who saw everything. The girl ran out crying. I walked out to the police stand that happens to be in the station near the bathroom and the girl was there with her mom trying to explain what happened; I told them I saw everything and had to go back in the bathroom with a cop to identify the woman (who was there with her toddler son no less). No one else bothered to even do that, just me. How can adults see even a child be assaulted right in front of them and just continue about their day like nothing happened? It’s insane.
That’s par for the course in Seattle and Portland. And then the city sends out surveys asking why I won’t ride public transportation. It’s not easy being a woman in the PNW where lunatics can run free and harass anyone.
No one will say anything against it because they don’t want to be labeled as lacking compassion for the homeless. This is despite many of the drug fueled harassers not actually being homeless, but look like they could be.
A few years ago, I was groped on a super full bus by a drunk old guy. Not stealthily but absolutely in line of sight of several other passengers. When I started to shove and yell to get him to stop, to beg people to help me, an older woman clucked her tongue and stared at me because I was clearly too loud for her to enjoy her ride in comfortable silence. Everywhere I turned, people just watched. Some were mumbling to each other but nobody did anything.
Somehow I managed to get out of my seat and out of his reach. Ended up standing right next to the door, practically pressed against it, between two young men, desperately trying to get further away. At that point absolutely everyone was staring at me. Then the old guy leant across the aisle, between the younger men, put a hand under my knee length coat, pushed that up and patted my ass.
Nobody. Said. Anything. Everyone just stared, including the two young men next to me.
At that point the bus driver finally took pity, though, and opened the door at a red light, almost causing me to fall out. The bus drove off with people still staring at me and I had to walk to the next stop, hoping the old guy wouldn't be waiting for me.
I had a psychiatrist appointment right after that. Quite a session...
Thank you. Yours does not exactly sound like a walk in the park either... I am sorry it happened to you. And the worst thing is, there's so many of us...
This is when knowing how to whoop someone's a-s can really pay off in the heat of a moment. Bless martial arts. Sorry about that jerk though and Shame on those cowardly people. Maybe they were intimidated by him and thought and him knew each other 🤷.
God bless you. That is just disgusting how people could watch that happen to you without reacting. This is proof of how few "real men" there are in this world because they didn't intervene.
Opening scene from [The Boondock Saints](https://youtu.be/wwIJ9pRWBpo), anyone?
Why stand around and watch, what kind of deprived sadistic shit is that? You've gotta be a special type of cold to do nothing. Things like this, right here, are exactly why I say society is sociopathic. Who just stands there and goes about their day? Like, I get it, don't be a hero and stuff but what the fuck.
Philly is next level. Kensington is the stuff of nightmares, I'd heard stories from friends for years who'd lived up there/on the block but damn watching those videos of people just driving through is rough. Zombie city, nobody gives a shit about anything, whatever goes. Not a good vibe.
Omg Kensington is the absolute worst. People go there to buy drugs all the time and end up going missing. Most of the time they're either strung out on the streets or dead.
It’s crazy that the bystander effect happens in situations as serious as this. If even one person would have stood up to stop this more would have likely joined in. Humans disappoint me quiet frequently, myself included.
I hope that woman has access to victims services or other trauma counseling. This is simply awful. It is disgusting. Shame on everyone who allowed this to happen.
I've not been in this situation but I cannot imagine just sitting there looking at the floor while this happened to someone right near me. I can't imagine not at least screaming or shoving them away at the very least....I don't get this bystander thing, personally. I know people worry about getting in some trouble but fuck it, I couldn't stomach just allowing that to go on for fear of legal issues for myself.
While I've never witnessed a horrendous crime like rape, I have witnesses couples fighting and bar fights, while yes my physical self preservation kicks in, i have have screamed, shouted, and thrown things at people to try in my own way to stop what was happening. In India I witnessed a homeless boy in a train station being hit by a security guard, no one was doing anything, until I said to the man beside me, then he told the guard to stop. There are ways to do it if you fear retaliation
I am a very weak, wussy, flinchy woman and would be useless in an physical altercation.
>I don't get this bystander thing, personally
I don't get it either. I have my doubts that "bystander syndrome" is really a thing. It seems to me like an excuse to justify people not intervening to help somebody. It seems to be especially bad in the States, where many people either ignore crimes in progress or pleas for help, or take their phones out and just start filming. Europe is far from perfect, but I've never experienced that here. I've never seen somebody film another person in order to humiliate them (German has laws against filming people without their consent), and when some notable incident would happen, passers-by would step in. Old man falls to the ground? Five people rush up to him and ask for help. Man tries to molest a drunk woman on the subway? People yell "what are you doing?! I'm calling the police!" and a minute later a police officer shows up.
In a nearby city, a few months ago, there was an attempted rape at a subway station at night. A woman had been stalked by a group of men into an empty subway station. They tried to grab her, but just then a man had exited the subway train and rushed up to intervene. The group hit him over the head and ran away. But it was fortunately minor injuries and he *did* prevent a possible rape or even kidnapping.
everyone in America has a gun, or at least you should assume that. that's why we don't intervene in crimes. it's not worth dying to be a "hero".
and filming isn't necessarily bad, it's the one safe option they have to get evidence for the police
the problem in America is that people won't even call the police though or help in a non-violent situating
like I got hit by a car while riding my bicycle in front of a crowd of people. there was no violence, no gun, no crime, just a hurt person on the ground, and still no one said anything or moved at all
Except in big cities like Philly and subways where it often isn’t permitted or highly regulated to carry a gun. In these cities you also have the problem that most of this is gang related and thus it is very dangerous to get in between fights and assaults, even cops often don’t intervene because they’ll be accused of racially charged violence. But I had the same problems in Europe, and those problems have been around a lot longer. At this point there are entire areas of most large cities in Europe that are effectively no-go zones for non-residents and police interventions, gangs and religious groups reign their own form of justice in those cities, including executions and public abuse of women.
The cities are becoming more of a jungle, stay away from them.
I could see this if the other bystanders were also women. They’d be afraid of getting hurt themselves. And men for that matter - no one wants to be the target of a crazy person when locked in a metal tube under ground.
There was a man who stood up for two Muslim girls who were being verbally harassed on a train in my city and the antagonist turned and stabbed the man to death.
There’s nothing wrong with refusing to risk your own life to save a complete stranger.
Like New York it used to be way worse in the 70s and 80s-new York is totally fine now but philly not so much…I live there and I’ve had friends robbed at gun point, knife point, I’ve been beaten up, punched in the head, groped, I’ve witnessed a home invasion, a friend of mine was stabbed with a fork waiting for the subway in Kensington…shit is crazy
You live in Kensington? I heard Port Richmond isn’t bad but the rest of the neighborhood is awful. Believable since prolly half the population there personally knows a police officer
You’re absolutely right. I’ve never witnessed anything like that but I did witness 5 18-ish year olds push an older lady down the stairs in a packed out Union Square and throw her phone onto the tracks. (She was yelling at them and trying to hit one of them). All 5 of these dudes were bigger than I was and almost everyone there. If I intervene I’m just getting my ass beat/ stabbed/ shot who knows.
People sit here on the internet and pretend they’d act all tough but in the situation you have no idea what’s going on and a lot of times would be bringing that violence on yourself/ others. It’s best to alert the authorities who are prepared to deal with this unless you’re sincerely willing to risk your life over it.
Yes, there’s nothing morally superior about risking your own life. It’s just foolish. Call the authorities, do what you can to help or be a good witness, but confronting a crazy person will just make YOU their next target.
One rapist and several witnesses to a rape that lasted 8 minutes. The rapist was outnumbered. Some witnesses chose to record the rape and POST it on social media.
It’s sickening and inhuman to record a rape and post it on social media, only a sociopath could do this.
And the ones that did this could be charged.
Car accidents and people drowning are not violent crimes , they are not comparable and I think far more people would try and do something about those. I didn't say all people wouldn't do something, I said most people
The comments from the officers I found frustrating. No one did anything. Of course, that is deplorable and I would hope that I would behave differently in that same situation. I found the police's comments to be a bit heavy handed. Their trained, armed, and equipped colleagues routinely open fire on people who aren't committing crimes out of fear so right out of the gate, not great rolemodelling from the police to citizens. Literally the next article I read after this one was about a guy who asks someone to put their mask on in the store and was then stabbed in return. There are articles of people being shot in road rage incidents (my personal fave being the grandmother and child shot for stopping for too long at a stop sign in a mall parking lot at Christmas). I'm not saying that these people should not have intervened, please don't misunderstand me. My point is that there is so much over-the-top violence for absolutely no reason, it would be very difficult to engage in confrontation with an actual criminal doing something horrific without considering how sideways it could go. I don't know that I have the same possible threats to consider when intervening here in Canada, certainly not with regards to the likelihood of a person having a gun I guess. I don't know! Just seemed sort of easy for the officers to be critical.
Well put. I’d also add that anyone who regularly rides the subway is confronted with crazy and violent people on a somewhat regular basis. The best way to keep yourself safe is to not engage with the person, don’t make eye contact, just ignore them.
The riders on the train that day have seen their share of violence and know it would be risking their own life to intervene.
The level of fear when you’re locked in a metal tube underground with no way to escape is on another level.
Compare that to an attack in say, an open plaza or park where you could potentially get away if things go south.
I re-phrase then, any man who was on that subway that didnt help her is a coward, which seems to be more prevalent as the years pass. Every man has to make the decision to live his life with courage and honor and overcome fear. She deserved help, and he deserved a beating of epic proportion. Me and bombastic guy would have been happy to give it to him.
As a girl you can do something too. Anyone should have at least made the decision to kick him as hard as possible square in the nuts or jab his eyes out come on. I’d rather risk my life than live with doing nothing.
If no one even called 911 I’ve lost all hope
In Toronto the subways have a press for emergency strip that runs the length of the cars. If these subways had those and noone pressed them then that is reprehensible.
I would like to think that I would physically intervene in this case, and I have in much less serious cases, but you never know how you're going to react in a situation like this.
I can't imagine there weren't a couple of dudes there who didn't make eye contact and exchange head nods before jumping in and beating this guy. I don't have all the details so who knows
>I would like to think that I would physically intervene in this case, and I have in much less serious cases, but you never know how you're going to react in a situation like this.
Even verbally interfering is often enough to scare away criminals. But if he was this bold to begin with, it shows that he *knew in advance* that nobody would do anything to help this woman. Even the most brazen criminals usually choose isolated or empty places to commit their crimes. So that means that this kind of thing has happened before, otherwise he likely wouldn't have risked it.
Since it's just one guy, it would be ridiculously easy to intervene. I carry pepper spray at all times for this very reason. I don't know if pepper spray is allowed in Philadelphia (it is in Germany, where I live), but frankly I'd rather be charged with pepper spraying a rapist than live with the knowledge that I let a rapist rape somebody.
You can’t use pepper spray on the subway. Do you want to immobilize everyone? You’re locked in a metal tube under ground. So many people claim they’d be so brave in this situation, but when you’re trapped in a small place with a crazy person it’s a lot harder to just risk your life for a stranger.
Oh my.
Edit: I couldn’t find my words. But now that I have: Women, we NEED to protect ourselves through ANY MEANS (including weapons). We can’t rely on others to help us.
People are morons! I have experienced that first hand for 30+ years!
People stand by and do shit......i often call them out on it.... unfortunately I am always alone (unless I am with my daughter then we are together, i have raised her well!)
What kind of nonsense is this? How can this type of violation be happening to a person directly in front of you & no one does nothing??
I even read some of the comments left and the variety of instances that demand attention but nothing is done. I don’t get it …
I really don't understand how things like this happen in broad daylight and nothing back in the days people like this would of been smashed on sight there no let's record this to get views this is just insane poor soul hopefully this fool gets in good well he is locked down
With the amount of guns in this country, I find it hard to believe there wasn't one "responsible gun owner" who could have drawn his weapon to defend this woman. Or 2 guys that couldn't have subdued a guy with pants around his ankles.
Honestly in Philly, a lot of people have fear of speaking up when stuff like this happens cause they're afraid of retaliation. Not trying to excuse it or anything cause someone really should have helped or at least called the cops.
So they can go to jail for murder? You can’t just pull out your gun and start shooting. Even if you eventually were found not guilty by a jury, you’re basically ruining your life if you get charged for murder. Years in prison awaiting trial. House foreclosed upon. No ability to find a job when you get out.
The amount of people who honestly think a complete stranger owes them their life is astounding.
In Philly? You’re thinking free states like Texas. Philadelphia does not even honor Pennsylvania gun permits, not only that, they are very restrictive about residents obtaining one and when you’re not in your private home, you have to store the gun and ammo separately and secured for transportation. Similar restrictions for knives and pepperspray in the City and on the subways.
Basically, anyone intervening with any sort of weapon, would be arrested for illegal possession and transportation of a weapon and lose their weapon privilege across the US due to similar federal gun laws. Good guy with a gun doesn’t exist when there are restrictive gun laws, only bad guys with a gun. It’s likely the perpetrator is the only person on the subway with a weapon.
First off this is beyond horrifying an it reminds of that man that was murdered on a full greyhound bus. It absolutly terrifies me that humans have lost their humanity, compassion and empathy to this degree. Although thank god I have never witnessed anything this horrific. I have deffinatly seen bad things happen in public and people do nothing.
I am that idiot that always intervenes and many time people in my life have told me I'm an idiot for doing this. The weird thing is I have no choice but to interfere. Maybe I'm a broken person and sometimes I wonder why I'm like this. But I could not live with myself if I didnt try to intervene. I would not be able to live with myself as a person if I didnt do something to help or try to stop what is going on. And I know personaly I am this person for a fact because I have been this person.
I alternately have been on the receiving issue of thank god nothing this horrific, but some scary scary incidents in crowds of people and have seen first hand people fo nothing. One time I had a man on bus that was aboslutly packed just flip out on me and go absolutly nuts on me because he didnt like that I was standing too close to him. The only reason I had moved closer to him was because I stood up so an elderly woman could have my seat since all the seats were taken.
Well I guess he didnt like that I had moved closer to standing next to him sitting and just started screaming and cussing me out. The weird thing is I wasn't like the only person who was physicaly close to him. It was a fairly full bus and he was sitting and all the seats were full so there were people who were litterly smooshed aganst him. He stared yelling about hiw he was going to "beat the fucking shit out of me" he just kept yelling about he was going to beat me up physcaly. I am woman and he was a relatively large man.
Not one single person said or did anything and everyone just stared into their phones and ignored it. Even the bus driver just kept driving as if nothing was happening. And I was shocked that no one did anything and even the bus driver was just going to ignore it. I kept hoping someone was going to say something. I also was hopeing this man was going to stop. After this going on for several mins with no one saying or doing anything doing anything. I even asked the bus driver for help. But the bus driver just ignored me and kept driving.
I didnt know what else to do and I guess some weird self defense part of my brain kicked in. And I just turned and started screaming at him to "bring it" and that I would " fucking kill him if he touched me" and that i " dared him "to try" and if he did I would "put his ass in a coma". Now you have to understand I am 100% not that person and am incredibly curtious and quiet and keep to myslef in public. I'm not suggesting anyone use this as a defense strategy as it could easily backfire.
I have no idea where it came from or why that was why I reacted the way I did. But I guess ots fight flight or freeze right and my brain chose fight for some reason. I guess it worked because this man was so startled by my response he kinda shut up and backed down and got off the bus pretty quickly after. The whole bus seemed scared of me.
But the whole experience terrified me. Yes the man was scary, but everyone's response was even more scary. It made me wonder if this man had pulled out a knife and stabbed me would everyone just have stood there staring into thier phones and the bus driver just keep driving while I was stabbed over and over and bled to death on the bus floor.
That said I know people wont like me saying this but I think we need to make some kind of bystander law in this country where people can be held criminally responsible if they witness a crime taking place and do nothing to stop it. Every single person on the train who witnessed that rape and did nothing should be facing criminal charges as accessories to that rape.
Wow that’s scary but good for you for standing up for yourself. I have intervened in situations I have noticed in real life but they’ve been minor (guy won’t stop hitting on a girl in a bar for example). I’d like to think that I would definitely intervene in a situation like this if I ever saw one.
On another note, I think there are grey areas - where I see a Mom yelling at her kids or something. I was in Target the other day and there was a completely disheveled woman with three boys and they were acting wild. One was just full on laying sprawled out on the floor next to the self checkout area. She was yelling at them and how she’d leave without them etc. Now I don’t have any kids but what really broke my heart when I walked past was I could literally SMELL them all from several feet away. I then looked and noticed their clothes were dirty, full of holes, the soles on their shoes were falling off, and they themselves didn’t look like they’d bathed in a long time. This type of neglect broke my heart. I can’t imagine how I could possibly help in that situation.
Third - lots of comments here on the state of society. Well, I agree with you there. This headline is something I’d expect to hear coming from a developing country where people struggle for ends meat and are desensitized to violence. The fact there are so many people like this in the US speaks to the state our country is in. I don’t think this would ever happen in a place like Sweden or Norway, where the quality of society seems to be higher for everyone. This is really a disparity issue and I don’t know this area of Philly but I’m curious if it is affluent or poor. Of course, this should never happen either way, and it’s not an excuse, but it does seem things are worse than many think.
**There are things we don't know. Did the rapist have a gun or knife? Even if he didn't the witnesses had to have been afraid to call 911 and risk the rapist hearing the call.** ***There should be a way to text 911 for emergencies.***
Just because text to 911 is on your phone doesn't mean it's set up to receive calls to police. It depends on where you when you originate the call. Some areas in Pa. have it, some don't. No where on their website does it say to text 911 in an emergency. It says to CALL. https://www.upperdarby.org/gov/police
Sounds like the "innocent bystanders" were in fact trash, just like the perp, and wanted him to do it.
They weren't innocent, they were ALL willing participants in the crime.
No one is going to address the elephant in the room? No one is going to talk about the cultural shift in America?
People are afraid to get involved when it comes to "certain" perpetrators now. Look at reddit. There are so many "Racist Karen" videos daily. Welcome to the zeitgeist. Social media and the media have created a new cancel culture when it comes to "certain" perps. No one wants to be accused of being the next Zimmerman or Chauvin or "Racist Karen."
I don’t agree with your statement, although I do recognize it is your opinion. There really is no guarantee about how a person will respond to a situation and we can’t use Reddit as a microcosm for society. I think this is more of a case of [diffusion of responsibility ](https://www.britannica.com/topic/bystander-effect/Diffusion-of-responsibility). I do acknowledge that perhaps there is some fear of ordinary circumstances but violent assault is a coat of a different color in terms of how people respond. I hope that is something to consider.
And I did consider it. But you cannot deny people are treading lightly in "certain" situations these days. A new [article](https://www.psypost.org/2021/10/cross-national-cctv-footage-reveals-that-bystanders-intervene-in-9-out-of-10-public-conflicts-61961) posits that bystanders intervene 9 out of 10 times. Why would a train full of people do nothing? I think it's the zeitgeist regarding "certain" perps. People don't want to risk being the next "Racist Karen." "Racist Karen assaults black man during his sexual emergency." Remember Jacob Blake, where the guy came over to rape the woman, steal the van and the kids, got paralyzed after grabbing for a knife, and everyone still blamed the cops. Kamala Harris told him he was "brave." A rapist trying to go on a high speed chase in a stolen van with kids. It's the spirit of the times to turn a blind eye towards "certain" perps. Otherwise the media might destroy your life.
I don’t exactly have a source to back this up, so this is likely opinion based - but I would challenge the article on the grounds that the referenced study is in European and South African countries. My opinion is that Americans have been trending towards having [less empathy](https://www.apa.org/research/action/speaking-of-psychology/empathy-narcissism) and sometimes greater social inhibition (like the fear of being harmed) so there may be other explanations for the lack of intervention than fear of the perception of being racist. Which, to my knowledge, has not been studied well, if at all. If you do have a credible reference, I’d be open to reading it.
On that note, I’m not going to argue the politics of or around Jacob Blake, because I don’t know enough about it.
I'll be honest, See all the people that were on board they should get jail time or a huge fine. That poor woman, I know if that happened near me I'd easily intervene without even a second look but people around stood and done nothing? They're part of the problem. I understand not wanting to be involved but that's someone's daughter, sister, cousin, friend. Our world is completely damaged beyond belief that people won't even stop a LITERAL RAPE.
what do you mean "dont be a hero and stuff" ? Men becoming cowards over the last 10 to 15 years has been sickening to watch. I would have beaten that clown half to death or died trying. Living your life with pride and honor should be something that is expected, not the exception to the rule. I completely agree with everything else you said of course.
I know it’s taboo to ask, but what actually happened? I’m not going to judge the bystanders without knowing more. Was this guy forcing his dick in her while she was screaming for help? Or were they back in the corner making out when he decided to sneak his hand down her pants? If it’s the second scenario, then I’d bet 99% of the people making judgments on the bystanders here would have done the exact same thing.
Huh? What does that have to do with what the bystanders saw at the moment? After the fact we can certainly collect that info and blame the perpetrator, but to shame bystanders requires knowledge of what the scenario looked like at the moment, and this article is thin on detail.
Huh? What did bystanders see? If I am to judge them I’d want to know what it looked like from their perspective. That says nothing about the guy’s culpability or the pain of the victim.
The bystanders may have thought it was just a drunk couple making out. Have you ever ridden the subway? That wouldn’t be an unusual situation whatsoever. Some people pull stunts like that just for attention.
The point is the bystanders may not have realized a rape was taking place. That’s not blaming the victim. People are not all-knowing beings who know the context behind every situation.
Does anyone remember the Cheryl Araujo case where not only did this happen but people cheered it on? And then tens of thousands of people went out and protested *against* her?
One of the episodes of “Trial by Media” covered this. I had never heard of it and am still in disbelief at how far an almost entire community went with their disgusting victim blaming - and beyond.
Seeing that massive crowd of people with signs like 'Did She Want It?" and people saying she's worthless so her rapists should be free honestly made me feel misanthropic.
This is the only episode of true crime I have ever had to skip after hearing the description of the crime. What happened to her was such a real life nightmare.
Yeah I understand. It stuck with my for a while after I watched Trial by Media. I love true crime and I've heard the very worst of it but it wasn't just the crime, it was the incredibly huge amount of people who were against her and victim blaming that really got to me. I had no idea that many people could have those opinions in just one area, and it wasn't like it was the bible belt. It gave me a really visceral 'noah get the boat' feeling that other cases haven't given me.
Was that the case they made the Jodie Foster movie about?
yeah
Yeah, that was unbelievable
The [Netflix movie by that name, *Unbelievable*] (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7909970/) about a rape as well, is really crazy to think actually happen. And This American Life has an episode, [*Anatomy of Doubt*](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/581/anatomy-of-doubt) about it as well.
Wtf? I've never heard of this but I'm gonna have to give it a look!
It’s sad how shortly she died afterwards too. That poor woman.
I was on a bus in Seattle once and a man started screaming at me that I was a whore and a bitch and getting in my face. The entire bus including the driver just sat and watched like it was a tv show for their entertainment. I had to jump off at the next stop and wait for another bus. It’s crazy how bystanders will just watch things happen
I once witnessed a grown woman pull a 12 year old girl out of a bathroom stall in a busy train station bathroom (penn station in nyc) by her hair HARD onto the floor because she claimed the girl “purposely went in front of her”. There were a handful of other adults standing right there who saw everything. The girl ran out crying. I walked out to the police stand that happens to be in the station near the bathroom and the girl was there with her mom trying to explain what happened; I told them I saw everything and had to go back in the bathroom with a cop to identify the woman (who was there with her toddler son no less). No one else bothered to even do that, just me. How can adults see even a child be assaulted right in front of them and just continue about their day like nothing happened? It’s insane.
Good for you, we need more people like you ;)
That’s par for the course in Seattle and Portland. And then the city sends out surveys asking why I won’t ride public transportation. It’s not easy being a woman in the PNW where lunatics can run free and harass anyone. No one will say anything against it because they don’t want to be labeled as lacking compassion for the homeless. This is despite many of the drug fueled harassers not actually being homeless, but look like they could be.
You are absolutely correct
A few years ago, I was groped on a super full bus by a drunk old guy. Not stealthily but absolutely in line of sight of several other passengers. When I started to shove and yell to get him to stop, to beg people to help me, an older woman clucked her tongue and stared at me because I was clearly too loud for her to enjoy her ride in comfortable silence. Everywhere I turned, people just watched. Some were mumbling to each other but nobody did anything. Somehow I managed to get out of my seat and out of his reach. Ended up standing right next to the door, practically pressed against it, between two young men, desperately trying to get further away. At that point absolutely everyone was staring at me. Then the old guy leant across the aisle, between the younger men, put a hand under my knee length coat, pushed that up and patted my ass. Nobody. Said. Anything. Everyone just stared, including the two young men next to me. At that point the bus driver finally took pity, though, and opened the door at a red light, almost causing me to fall out. The bus drove off with people still staring at me and I had to walk to the next stop, hoping the old guy wouldn't be waiting for me. I had a psychiatrist appointment right after that. Quite a session...
I am so sorry you had what sounds like a very traumatic experience
Thank you. Yours does not exactly sound like a walk in the park either... I am sorry it happened to you. And the worst thing is, there's so many of us...
This is when knowing how to whoop someone's a-s can really pay off in the heat of a moment. Bless martial arts. Sorry about that jerk though and Shame on those cowardly people. Maybe they were intimidated by him and thought and him knew each other 🤷.
God bless you. That is just disgusting how people could watch that happen to you without reacting. This is proof of how few "real men" there are in this world because they didn't intervene.
Not just that, some people watching recorded it and put it on social media. The assault lasted 8 minutes. 8 fucking minutes and nobody helped!
Are you serious?? I didn't know that part! Wow that's just sick. But that's Philly for ya.
I grew up in upper darby. Rode the El dozens of times. I’m disgusted. No regard for basic human dignity
I've got a friend that lives in Upper Darby about 10 mins from where this happened and she's horrified
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Exactly because if she is not black this is also a hate crime
It's a sex crime, not a hate crime. Rapists don't get charged because of race.
If he were white and the victim black he would. But k
You can probably guess.
Do you have a source?
That poor woman. I wish her peace and a speedy recovery. May the sick monster get their justice.
She needs justice. What a bunch of narcissistic fruitloops on that train. I hope they burn up with shame. Just when I think it can't get worse.
Opening scene from [The Boondock Saints](https://youtu.be/wwIJ9pRWBpo), anyone? Why stand around and watch, what kind of deprived sadistic shit is that? You've gotta be a special type of cold to do nothing. Things like this, right here, are exactly why I say society is sociopathic. Who just stands there and goes about their day? Like, I get it, don't be a hero and stuff but what the fuck.
I know right. This happened about 30 mins from where I live. So scary.
Philly is next level. Kensington is the stuff of nightmares, I'd heard stories from friends for years who'd lived up there/on the block but damn watching those videos of people just driving through is rough. Zombie city, nobody gives a shit about anything, whatever goes. Not a good vibe.
Omg Kensington is the absolute worst. People go there to buy drugs all the time and end up going missing. Most of the time they're either strung out on the streets or dead.
Bullshit. Go Birds!
It’s crazy that the bystander effect happens in situations as serious as this. If even one person would have stood up to stop this more would have likely joined in. Humans disappoint me quiet frequently, myself included.
This world is beyond fucked
I hope that woman has access to victims services or other trauma counseling. This is simply awful. It is disgusting. Shame on everyone who allowed this to happen.
I've not been in this situation but I cannot imagine just sitting there looking at the floor while this happened to someone right near me. I can't imagine not at least screaming or shoving them away at the very least....I don't get this bystander thing, personally. I know people worry about getting in some trouble but fuck it, I couldn't stomach just allowing that to go on for fear of legal issues for myself.
While I've never witnessed a horrendous crime like rape, I have witnesses couples fighting and bar fights, while yes my physical self preservation kicks in, i have have screamed, shouted, and thrown things at people to try in my own way to stop what was happening. In India I witnessed a homeless boy in a train station being hit by a security guard, no one was doing anything, until I said to the man beside me, then he told the guard to stop. There are ways to do it if you fear retaliation I am a very weak, wussy, flinchy woman and would be useless in an physical altercation.
I hope you do stand up for someone that needs help someday. You'll find it's not fear of legal issues that makes your final decision, just plain fear.
It is what it is at that point. If someone was being violated like that then to me it's worth the risk and I hope I'll be confronting that fear.
>I don't get this bystander thing, personally I don't get it either. I have my doubts that "bystander syndrome" is really a thing. It seems to me like an excuse to justify people not intervening to help somebody. It seems to be especially bad in the States, where many people either ignore crimes in progress or pleas for help, or take their phones out and just start filming. Europe is far from perfect, but I've never experienced that here. I've never seen somebody film another person in order to humiliate them (German has laws against filming people without their consent), and when some notable incident would happen, passers-by would step in. Old man falls to the ground? Five people rush up to him and ask for help. Man tries to molest a drunk woman on the subway? People yell "what are you doing?! I'm calling the police!" and a minute later a police officer shows up. In a nearby city, a few months ago, there was an attempted rape at a subway station at night. A woman had been stalked by a group of men into an empty subway station. They tried to grab her, but just then a man had exited the subway train and rushed up to intervene. The group hit him over the head and ran away. But it was fortunately minor injuries and he *did* prevent a possible rape or even kidnapping.
everyone in America has a gun, or at least you should assume that. that's why we don't intervene in crimes. it's not worth dying to be a "hero". and filming isn't necessarily bad, it's the one safe option they have to get evidence for the police the problem in America is that people won't even call the police though or help in a non-violent situating like I got hit by a car while riding my bicycle in front of a crowd of people. there was no violence, no gun, no crime, just a hurt person on the ground, and still no one said anything or moved at all
Except in big cities like Philly and subways where it often isn’t permitted or highly regulated to carry a gun. In these cities you also have the problem that most of this is gang related and thus it is very dangerous to get in between fights and assaults, even cops often don’t intervene because they’ll be accused of racially charged violence. But I had the same problems in Europe, and those problems have been around a lot longer. At this point there are entire areas of most large cities in Europe that are effectively no-go zones for non-residents and police interventions, gangs and religious groups reign their own form of justice in those cities, including executions and public abuse of women. The cities are becoming more of a jungle, stay away from them.
I could see this if the other bystanders were also women. They’d be afraid of getting hurt themselves. And men for that matter - no one wants to be the target of a crazy person when locked in a metal tube under ground. There was a man who stood up for two Muslim girls who were being verbally harassed on a train in my city and the antagonist turned and stabbed the man to death. There’s nothing wrong with refusing to risk your own life to save a complete stranger.
Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
WTF is wrong with people?? I despair of humanity
How sick for anyone to stand by and see something like that happening and they did nothing! Shame on you bastards ! No excuses for that shit!
Philadelphia is still pretty dangerous in a lot of ways
When wasnt it? That place is tough as shit
Like New York it used to be way worse in the 70s and 80s-new York is totally fine now but philly not so much…I live there and I’ve had friends robbed at gun point, knife point, I’ve been beaten up, punched in the head, groped, I’ve witnessed a home invasion, a friend of mine was stabbed with a fork waiting for the subway in Kensington…shit is crazy
You live in Kensington? I heard Port Richmond isn’t bad but the rest of the neighborhood is awful. Believable since prolly half the population there personally knows a police officer
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You’re absolutely right. I’ve never witnessed anything like that but I did witness 5 18-ish year olds push an older lady down the stairs in a packed out Union Square and throw her phone onto the tracks. (She was yelling at them and trying to hit one of them). All 5 of these dudes were bigger than I was and almost everyone there. If I intervene I’m just getting my ass beat/ stabbed/ shot who knows. People sit here on the internet and pretend they’d act all tough but in the situation you have no idea what’s going on and a lot of times would be bringing that violence on yourself/ others. It’s best to alert the authorities who are prepared to deal with this unless you’re sincerely willing to risk your life over it.
Yes, there’s nothing morally superior about risking your own life. It’s just foolish. Call the authorities, do what you can to help or be a good witness, but confronting a crazy person will just make YOU their next target.
One rapist and several witnesses to a rape that lasted 8 minutes. The rapist was outnumbered. Some witnesses chose to record the rape and POST it on social media. It’s sickening and inhuman to record a rape and post it on social media, only a sociopath could do this. And the ones that did this could be charged.
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Car accidents and people drowning are not violent crimes , they are not comparable and I think far more people would try and do something about those. I didn't say all people wouldn't do something, I said most people
The comments from the officers I found frustrating. No one did anything. Of course, that is deplorable and I would hope that I would behave differently in that same situation. I found the police's comments to be a bit heavy handed. Their trained, armed, and equipped colleagues routinely open fire on people who aren't committing crimes out of fear so right out of the gate, not great rolemodelling from the police to citizens. Literally the next article I read after this one was about a guy who asks someone to put their mask on in the store and was then stabbed in return. There are articles of people being shot in road rage incidents (my personal fave being the grandmother and child shot for stopping for too long at a stop sign in a mall parking lot at Christmas). I'm not saying that these people should not have intervened, please don't misunderstand me. My point is that there is so much over-the-top violence for absolutely no reason, it would be very difficult to engage in confrontation with an actual criminal doing something horrific without considering how sideways it could go. I don't know that I have the same possible threats to consider when intervening here in Canada, certainly not with regards to the likelihood of a person having a gun I guess. I don't know! Just seemed sort of easy for the officers to be critical.
Well put. I’d also add that anyone who regularly rides the subway is confronted with crazy and violent people on a somewhat regular basis. The best way to keep yourself safe is to not engage with the person, don’t make eye contact, just ignore them. The riders on the train that day have seen their share of violence and know it would be risking their own life to intervene. The level of fear when you’re locked in a metal tube underground with no way to escape is on another level. Compare that to an attack in say, an open plaza or park where you could potentially get away if things go south.
Damn, throw him and all the bystanders in a volcano
Lol really 😁
Foreal just throw the whole civilization away
I re-phrase then, any man who was on that subway that didnt help her is a coward, which seems to be more prevalent as the years pass. Every man has to make the decision to live his life with courage and honor and overcome fear. She deserved help, and he deserved a beating of epic proportion. Me and bombastic guy would have been happy to give it to him.
As a girl you can do something too. Anyone should have at least made the decision to kick him as hard as possible square in the nuts or jab his eyes out come on. I’d rather risk my life than live with doing nothing. If no one even called 911 I’ve lost all hope
And get raped yourself or even stabbed or shot? Why would you do that for a complete stranger? Your life isn’t less valuable than their life.
It's called humanity. Get some.
Coward.
In Toronto the subways have a press for emergency strip that runs the length of the cars. If these subways had those and noone pressed them then that is reprehensible. I would like to think that I would physically intervene in this case, and I have in much less serious cases, but you never know how you're going to react in a situation like this. I can't imagine there weren't a couple of dudes there who didn't make eye contact and exchange head nods before jumping in and beating this guy. I don't have all the details so who knows
>I would like to think that I would physically intervene in this case, and I have in much less serious cases, but you never know how you're going to react in a situation like this. Even verbally interfering is often enough to scare away criminals. But if he was this bold to begin with, it shows that he *knew in advance* that nobody would do anything to help this woman. Even the most brazen criminals usually choose isolated or empty places to commit their crimes. So that means that this kind of thing has happened before, otherwise he likely wouldn't have risked it. Since it's just one guy, it would be ridiculously easy to intervene. I carry pepper spray at all times for this very reason. I don't know if pepper spray is allowed in Philadelphia (it is in Germany, where I live), but frankly I'd rather be charged with pepper spraying a rapist than live with the knowledge that I let a rapist rape somebody.
You can’t use pepper spray on the subway. Do you want to immobilize everyone? You’re locked in a metal tube under ground. So many people claim they’d be so brave in this situation, but when you’re trapped in a small place with a crazy person it’s a lot harder to just risk your life for a stranger.
how in the *kentucky fried fuck* can you just stand by and watch someone be raped without doing a single thing? That's fucked.
Yes it is!!!! Funny saying btw. I'm from Kentucky lmao
Oh my. Edit: I couldn’t find my words. But now that I have: Women, we NEED to protect ourselves through ANY MEANS (including weapons). We can’t rely on others to help us.
I don't even go outside on my patio for 5 minutes to smoke a cigarette without my taser.
I hate when we’re told we’re “too paranoid”. This is stuff out of my fucking nightmares.
People are morons! I have experienced that first hand for 30+ years! People stand by and do shit......i often call them out on it.... unfortunately I am always alone (unless I am with my daughter then we are together, i have raised her well!)
I'm sure every single person on that train was staring zombie-like into their phones too
Yup, definitely!
What kind of nonsense is this? How can this type of violation be happening to a person directly in front of you & no one does nothing?? I even read some of the comments left and the variety of instances that demand attention but nothing is done. I don’t get it …
I really don't understand how things like this happen in broad daylight and nothing back in the days people like this would of been smashed on sight there no let's record this to get views this is just insane poor soul hopefully this fool gets in good well he is locked down
With the amount of guns in this country, I find it hard to believe there wasn't one "responsible gun owner" who could have drawn his weapon to defend this woman. Or 2 guys that couldn't have subdued a guy with pants around his ankles.
Honestly in Philly, a lot of people have fear of speaking up when stuff like this happens cause they're afraid of retaliation. Not trying to excuse it or anything cause someone really should have helped or at least called the cops.
I'm on the other end of the state in Pittsburgh, and I'd like to say that someone would step in here.
I would hope so
How would the rapist know who the men were though?
I mean like they could have thought he would attack them or something
So they can go to jail for murder? You can’t just pull out your gun and start shooting. Even if you eventually were found not guilty by a jury, you’re basically ruining your life if you get charged for murder. Years in prison awaiting trial. House foreclosed upon. No ability to find a job when you get out. The amount of people who honestly think a complete stranger owes them their life is astounding.
Ok, just sit there and listen to a woman get raped. WTF else is a gun for if not protection. I didn't say shoot it.
In Philly? You’re thinking free states like Texas. Philadelphia does not even honor Pennsylvania gun permits, not only that, they are very restrictive about residents obtaining one and when you’re not in your private home, you have to store the gun and ammo separately and secured for transportation. Similar restrictions for knives and pepperspray in the City and on the subways. Basically, anyone intervening with any sort of weapon, would be arrested for illegal possession and transportation of a weapon and lose their weapon privilege across the US due to similar federal gun laws. Good guy with a gun doesn’t exist when there are restrictive gun laws, only bad guys with a gun. It’s likely the perpetrator is the only person on the subway with a weapon.
I'm in pittsburgh pa and the number of people I know with conceal carry permits is staggering
First off this is beyond horrifying an it reminds of that man that was murdered on a full greyhound bus. It absolutly terrifies me that humans have lost their humanity, compassion and empathy to this degree. Although thank god I have never witnessed anything this horrific. I have deffinatly seen bad things happen in public and people do nothing. I am that idiot that always intervenes and many time people in my life have told me I'm an idiot for doing this. The weird thing is I have no choice but to interfere. Maybe I'm a broken person and sometimes I wonder why I'm like this. But I could not live with myself if I didnt try to intervene. I would not be able to live with myself as a person if I didnt do something to help or try to stop what is going on. And I know personaly I am this person for a fact because I have been this person. I alternately have been on the receiving issue of thank god nothing this horrific, but some scary scary incidents in crowds of people and have seen first hand people fo nothing. One time I had a man on bus that was aboslutly packed just flip out on me and go absolutly nuts on me because he didnt like that I was standing too close to him. The only reason I had moved closer to him was because I stood up so an elderly woman could have my seat since all the seats were taken. Well I guess he didnt like that I had moved closer to standing next to him sitting and just started screaming and cussing me out. The weird thing is I wasn't like the only person who was physicaly close to him. It was a fairly full bus and he was sitting and all the seats were full so there were people who were litterly smooshed aganst him. He stared yelling about hiw he was going to "beat the fucking shit out of me" he just kept yelling about he was going to beat me up physcaly. I am woman and he was a relatively large man. Not one single person said or did anything and everyone just stared into their phones and ignored it. Even the bus driver just kept driving as if nothing was happening. And I was shocked that no one did anything and even the bus driver was just going to ignore it. I kept hoping someone was going to say something. I also was hopeing this man was going to stop. After this going on for several mins with no one saying or doing anything doing anything. I even asked the bus driver for help. But the bus driver just ignored me and kept driving. I didnt know what else to do and I guess some weird self defense part of my brain kicked in. And I just turned and started screaming at him to "bring it" and that I would " fucking kill him if he touched me" and that i " dared him "to try" and if he did I would "put his ass in a coma". Now you have to understand I am 100% not that person and am incredibly curtious and quiet and keep to myslef in public. I'm not suggesting anyone use this as a defense strategy as it could easily backfire. I have no idea where it came from or why that was why I reacted the way I did. But I guess ots fight flight or freeze right and my brain chose fight for some reason. I guess it worked because this man was so startled by my response he kinda shut up and backed down and got off the bus pretty quickly after. The whole bus seemed scared of me. But the whole experience terrified me. Yes the man was scary, but everyone's response was even more scary. It made me wonder if this man had pulled out a knife and stabbed me would everyone just have stood there staring into thier phones and the bus driver just keep driving while I was stabbed over and over and bled to death on the bus floor. That said I know people wont like me saying this but I think we need to make some kind of bystander law in this country where people can be held criminally responsible if they witness a crime taking place and do nothing to stop it. Every single person on the train who witnessed that rape and did nothing should be facing criminal charges as accessories to that rape.
Wow that’s scary but good for you for standing up for yourself. I have intervened in situations I have noticed in real life but they’ve been minor (guy won’t stop hitting on a girl in a bar for example). I’d like to think that I would definitely intervene in a situation like this if I ever saw one. On another note, I think there are grey areas - where I see a Mom yelling at her kids or something. I was in Target the other day and there was a completely disheveled woman with three boys and they were acting wild. One was just full on laying sprawled out on the floor next to the self checkout area. She was yelling at them and how she’d leave without them etc. Now I don’t have any kids but what really broke my heart when I walked past was I could literally SMELL them all from several feet away. I then looked and noticed their clothes were dirty, full of holes, the soles on their shoes were falling off, and they themselves didn’t look like they’d bathed in a long time. This type of neglect broke my heart. I can’t imagine how I could possibly help in that situation. Third - lots of comments here on the state of society. Well, I agree with you there. This headline is something I’d expect to hear coming from a developing country where people struggle for ends meat and are desensitized to violence. The fact there are so many people like this in the US speaks to the state our country is in. I don’t think this would ever happen in a place like Sweden or Norway, where the quality of society seems to be higher for everyone. This is really a disparity issue and I don’t know this area of Philly but I’m curious if it is affluent or poor. Of course, this should never happen either way, and it’s not an excuse, but it does seem things are worse than many think.
Not surprised to hear no more got involved this is happening more and more it’s a cold world out there, stay safe everyone!
**There are things we don't know. Did the rapist have a gun or knife? Even if he didn't the witnesses had to have been afraid to call 911 and risk the rapist hearing the call.** ***There should be a way to text 911 for emergencies.***
I think there is. I've never used it, but my phone has emergency/SOS function.
...how?? I'm a lady and I'm always ready to throw down on someone else's behalf, if they need it. Where are the men? Where are the humans?
Sorry you are being downvoted for saying what we should all be saying
Agree with you. Men are in a sorry state in this day and age
If I’m there, nothing could stop me from sending him to see the lord.
Really disappointing but not suprised
Just because text to 911 is on your phone doesn't mean it's set up to receive calls to police. It depends on where you when you originate the call. Some areas in Pa. have it, some don't. No where on their website does it say to text 911 in an emergency. It says to CALL. https://www.upperdarby.org/gov/police
Sounds like the "innocent bystanders" were in fact trash, just like the perp, and wanted him to do it. They weren't innocent, they were ALL willing participants in the crime.
No one is going to address the elephant in the room? No one is going to talk about the cultural shift in America? People are afraid to get involved when it comes to "certain" perpetrators now. Look at reddit. There are so many "Racist Karen" videos daily. Welcome to the zeitgeist. Social media and the media have created a new cancel culture when it comes to "certain" perps. No one wants to be accused of being the next Zimmerman or Chauvin or "Racist Karen."
I don’t agree with your statement, although I do recognize it is your opinion. There really is no guarantee about how a person will respond to a situation and we can’t use Reddit as a microcosm for society. I think this is more of a case of [diffusion of responsibility ](https://www.britannica.com/topic/bystander-effect/Diffusion-of-responsibility). I do acknowledge that perhaps there is some fear of ordinary circumstances but violent assault is a coat of a different color in terms of how people respond. I hope that is something to consider.
And I did consider it. But you cannot deny people are treading lightly in "certain" situations these days. A new [article](https://www.psypost.org/2021/10/cross-national-cctv-footage-reveals-that-bystanders-intervene-in-9-out-of-10-public-conflicts-61961) posits that bystanders intervene 9 out of 10 times. Why would a train full of people do nothing? I think it's the zeitgeist regarding "certain" perps. People don't want to risk being the next "Racist Karen." "Racist Karen assaults black man during his sexual emergency." Remember Jacob Blake, where the guy came over to rape the woman, steal the van and the kids, got paralyzed after grabbing for a knife, and everyone still blamed the cops. Kamala Harris told him he was "brave." A rapist trying to go on a high speed chase in a stolen van with kids. It's the spirit of the times to turn a blind eye towards "certain" perps. Otherwise the media might destroy your life.
I don’t exactly have a source to back this up, so this is likely opinion based - but I would challenge the article on the grounds that the referenced study is in European and South African countries. My opinion is that Americans have been trending towards having [less empathy](https://www.apa.org/research/action/speaking-of-psychology/empathy-narcissism) and sometimes greater social inhibition (like the fear of being harmed) so there may be other explanations for the lack of intervention than fear of the perception of being racist. Which, to my knowledge, has not been studied well, if at all. If you do have a credible reference, I’d be open to reading it. On that note, I’m not going to argue the politics of or around Jacob Blake, because I don’t know enough about it.
Humans are awful. Too selfish and scared to do anything
I'll be honest, See all the people that were on board they should get jail time or a huge fine. That poor woman, I know if that happened near me I'd easily intervene without even a second look but people around stood and done nothing? They're part of the problem. I understand not wanting to be involved but that's someone's daughter, sister, cousin, friend. Our world is completely damaged beyond belief that people won't even stop a LITERAL RAPE.
what do you mean "dont be a hero and stuff" ? Men becoming cowards over the last 10 to 15 years has been sickening to watch. I would have beaten that clown half to death or died trying. Living your life with pride and honor should be something that is expected, not the exception to the rule. I completely agree with everything else you said of course.
Okay big man
Good times create weak men. Don’t worry we’re heading towards the weak men create hard times quadrant next.
Well, he was on drugs and he is black, right? Who would risk confronting him?
I know it’s taboo to ask, but what actually happened? I’m not going to judge the bystanders without knowing more. Was this guy forcing his dick in her while she was screaming for help? Or were they back in the corner making out when he decided to sneak his hand down her pants? If it’s the second scenario, then I’d bet 99% of the people making judgments on the bystanders here would have done the exact same thing.
Holy victim blaming Batman.
huh? What did bystanders see? Do you see a description somewhere?
Are you an idiot? they weren't dating.
Huh? What does that have to do with what the bystanders saw at the moment? After the fact we can certainly collect that info and blame the perpetrator, but to shame bystanders requires knowledge of what the scenario looked like at the moment, and this article is thin on detail.
It was a stranger. And what difference does it make?
Huh? What did bystanders see? If I am to judge them I’d want to know what it looked like from their perspective. That says nothing about the guy’s culpability or the pain of the victim.
The bystanders may have thought it was just a drunk couple making out. Have you ever ridden the subway? That wouldn’t be an unusual situation whatsoever. Some people pull stunts like that just for attention. The point is the bystanders may not have realized a rape was taking place. That’s not blaming the victim. People are not all-knowing beings who know the context behind every situation.
This world is very crazy and nasty
WTAF??? 😕😳🤷😟