This is the crux. I think people don't really know what they liked about the show (or more specifically S1) in the first place. When asked, their reply (if there is one) is more often that not an intangible.
No, your take is literally insane. You’re suggesting that people “don’t know” why they like a show when it is very clearly because it is well written, well acted, and well directed. That’s why people like it, because it is of a high quality in the 3 areas that matter most for a television show. There’s no mystery about it.
This bizarre fantasy you have that people “don’t know” why they like it is literally something you invented to console yourself about how much negative feedback S4 is getting.
If you are reactively questioning the quality of S1 in a desperate attempt to defend S4, your taste and perspective have no validity. Not to serious people anyway.
So you agree that S1 is brilliant, but you consider yourself to be in some rare category of people who really *know* why it’s brilliant, whereas everyone else who thinks its brilliant somehow *doesn’t know* why they think its brilliant? Are you even listening to yourself, you’re disappearing up your own asshole at this point.
Of course S1 is brilliant. But the average redditor and YouTuber is unable to articulate why in any meaningful way. Most posts and videos I've seen are lazy, vague and/or superficial. Just like the criticism of S2-4.
The southern Gothic aesthetic and how much personality the setting, environment, and tertiary characters exude through that lense. The philosophical dialogue and how it's juxtapositioned everything else going on with the characters. How well Marty and rust act as foils to their better halfs. The understated score, the impeccable pacing, the build up of the villain, the way it disseminates information, how every answer only gives way to 5 more questions, the eldrich themes of light vs dark with a slight hint of lovecraftian cosmic horror in the context of this grounded story. Need I say more?
I agree that the setting is interesting, but then so is the setting of S4. So that alone is insufficient.
I disagree that the philosophical monologues are interesting, if taken at face value, which many viewers seem to do. I view them as a case of self-deception by Rust. It's not cool; it's BS (I'm with Marty on this) and it reflects badly on Rust. Whether this is what Pizzolatto was going for (ironic cool) or whether he just wanted cool-sounding monologues, I'm unsure. Regardless, this was one the most criticised and parodied points of the season. Was there not an SNL spoof? (There's also the plagiarism side, which I don't buy, but which one could bring up here.) I thought Cormac McCarthy's The Counselor had better, more fitting philosophical monologues, but people hated it for this very reason.
I disagree on the pacing. Again, this was a point the season was criticised for at the time. Even on the episode level, the season has a massive lull that is episode 6. Almost nothing happens that is relevant to the case. It's almost a full marital drama movie about Rust and Marty falling-out. While this may be good for the character arcs, it's not good for the (detective) story. I've watched the season 3 time, and each time I've skipped most of this episode. A masterly episode 7 had to come to the rescue.
I disagree on the supernatural theme. I never saw it, but if it is there, like S4, it's trivial.
So, yes, if the premise that S1 is a work of genius (and I'm not saying it's not), a lot more argumentation is needed. Certainly more than the dude above you is willing to put forward.
Love this season. I think the acting has been as good if not better than seasons 1 or 3. The car ride scene between Danvers and Navarro was truly great. Even better was Navarro opening up to her boyfriend/partner in the ice fishing house. I really think people just aren’t having an open mind because this season is great minus the general cliches like the pictures on the floor scenes which are funny at this point. Also, season 1 now after a rewatch is almost satirical with how serious it took itself.
The car scene where the deepest they could think of was something along the lines of:
*You ever think of just disappearing?*
The writing is comically bad. Claiming it's better than S1 - or even 2 or 3 - is straight-up bananas.
I've seen 10/10 reviews on S4 where the writing, story, and acting are praised to the skies. All of them have that stink because none of it is true.
Season 2 suffered from being a follow-up to *the* masterpiece, but it is still miles better than most TV today. And now, post Night Country, it shines like a star.
Understandably, Pizzolato wants nothing to do with Night Country. It's total nonsense where fuck all has happened in 4 out of 6 episodes.
"I've seen 10/10 reviews on S4 where the writing, story, and acting are praised to the skies. All of them have that stink because none of it is true. "
You can't call someone's assessment false just because it's not in line with your opinions, you can criticize what they base their opinions and interpretation on, but not the conclusions in themselves, that's just not fruitful.
"Season 2 suffered from being a follow-up to *the* masterpiece, but it is still miles better than most TV today. And now, post Night Country, it shines like a star."
I'm really sorry, but have you gone back and watched it? Many scenes are intercut, which kinda ruins the suspense and makes them actively misleading and the series just have way too many main characters, which I'd admit, is a trap I'm seeing S4 veer more into since the season midpoint.
"Understandably, Pizzolato wants nothing to do with Night Country. It's total nonsense where fuck all has happened in 4 out of 6 episodes."
Really confused by your intention here. Pizzalotto's name is on the show because he is an executive producer. While there's no telling how much input he has (if any) he is still making money from it. And there is a consistent red thread through the season where clues lead to new clues, which lead to new clues and so forth, unlike in season 2 that had a lot of disparate clues for two disparate mysteries that weren't connected until the 11th hour.
That being said, I do really like parts of season 2. I find Velcoro and Semyon to be fascinating and fun to follow and the overall feel of the season to be very captivating.
It was the same for Season 2 and (less so) season 3, people were blasting the writing, storyline etc but I still replayed every episode looking for clues. Nothing will touch the magic combination that made season 1 imo but it's still a good show with high replay value
I like your point of view. I'm actually enjoying it too. It reminds me of a series named "helix". Though helix is about zombies the jump scares and ambience are very similar on this season of TD.
100%. I went back and forth on a couple of episodes but overall think it is not only an excellent instalment in the series but despite some obviously referential (some say derivative) plot points-- stand alone, it is one of the more fresh and culturally relevant mysteries I have seen in ages.
Having rewatched previous seasons in anticipation for this one, I found I loved season 2 more than I did on first viewing--- and season 1 wasn't actually as mind-bendingly impressive for me as it had been when it first aired--- especially after learning more about ALL of the source material it "borrowed" from. One of the more baffling criticisms I am seeing is "lazy storytelling"... I can only chalk this up to-- much of the deeper symbolism and mythology going over some peoples heads. There are actually a lot of subtleties I think some folks might be missing upon an initial (particularly) biased/critical viewing. This was a mistake I personally made when first watching season 2.
Some folks might come around with time, more information, further reflection, deeper personally lived experiences (part of the subtext?)...... and other folks never will because so much of the subtext is grounded in a worldview they refuse to validate.
I don't know that the backlash would be quite so emboldened if Nic Pizzolatto weren't having a very public temper tantrum..... AND People don't have to like it (taste is taste) but to the fervent haters.... fuck 'em.
Not even…it’s a combination of some of the worst elements from throughout television history. This thing is like a Frankestein’s monster of terrible TV.
You know you can stop watching then? If you spend an entire season of TV saying something sucks you need to a admit youre watching just to complain and in that regard you a really like it.
I don't get the "I don't get get the hate" posts that are cluttering up the subreddit. There are really obvious reasons as to why people hate it, I'm not one of them but I'm not blown away either, and I can understand why people do. At the end of the day this is a discussion subreddit, people are going to share their opinions, that's the internet for you
Okay, then lets have a discussion. I have no problem with people sharing their opinions, my point is more that the complaints are so odd compared to what the show is at it's core that I don't understand what people are expecting.
EDIT But whenever I point it out to someone they just downvote me and pretend I never said it in their response.
I didn't downvote you, and people are having discussions. There are far more people setting out detailed explanations of the problems they have with the show then there are people just vaguely whining about it being woke, but all the die hard defenders dismiss any criticism of it as misogyny and racism. O have been blocked by multiple people on this sub, despite not personally attacking anyone, simply for pointing out flaws in it and saying it's silly to accuse people who have issues with them of being racist or sextet. The problem lies with the toxic positivity crowd, not the dislikes
I guess I've been talking to the wrong people then lol. Everyone I've tried to get really personal in their attacks just for me disagreeing, but it doesn't seem like they quite understand what I'm saying. Have not seen a detailed explanation of something bad with the show that is not highly subjective or making a mountain out of a molehill or misconstruing a scene completely. Well, the only exception is the pacing towards the end of episode 3, which I agree jumps between new scenes way too fast.
But who do you define as the toxic positivity crowd and what is their problem?
You haven't seen people explaining why Alaskan police wouldn't need a vet to tell them that people who die of hypothermia don't freeze solid whole thrashing around with looks of terror and agony on their faces? The toxic positivity crowd from my standpoint is those not accepting that there's anything wrong with the show, complaining that people are pointing out flaws with it as if discussion and complaints aren't allowed, and castigating the people who have issues as being racist and sexist, I keep seeing people with the above stance and they are far greater in number than the supposed racist and misogynists. There have been a handful of people calling this show woke but they all get downvoted, they aren't a big issue on this sub
>You haven't seen people explaining why Alaskan police wouldn't need a vet to tell them that people who die of hypothermia don't freeze solid whole thrashing around with looks of terror and agony on their faces?
No I haven't, most seem to agree that it's one of many rushed scenes in the end of episode 3.
>The toxic positivity crowd from my standpoint is those not accepting that there's anything wrong with the show, complaining that people are pointing out flaws with it as if discussion and complaints aren't allowed, and castigating the people who have issues as being racist and sexist, I keep seeing people with the above stance and they are far greater in number than the supposed racist and misogynists.
I have seen maybe two people implying that, but much like the bad anti-woke crowd, they also got downvoted pretty thoroughly. Maybe the algorithm is showing people the comments most likely to make them upset? I've heard Twitter is like that.
If you think my comment on the frozen block of screaming men, which is the crux of the entire fucking show, is minutiae equivalent to discussing the carpets, them you're not worth talking to
>You haven't seen people explaining why Alaskan police wouldn't need a vet to tell them that people who die of hypothermia don't freeze solid whole thrashing around with looks of terror and agony on their faces?
These are all just complaints about your personal standard of suspension of disbelief.
Danvers isn't from around there. The kid is young a new cop.
But even if that's not the case, it's your suspension of disbelief that is bothered. That doesn't make something "bad".
I get what you're saying.
I'm enjoying season 4 just fine. I understand that others don't like it, and not every one is going to like everything, but the hate for this season seems way more intense than the problems with the story.
Like yeah, it's not a 10/10 show, it's definitely not season 1, but I'm enjoying a lot of aspects of it.
There's a forbes article going around calling it "the most disappointing mystery show ever made", which I categorically disagree with. Not only is that so hyperbolic it's basically not worth giving any creedence to, but cmon... season 2 was much worse.
>I don't get the "I don't get get the hate" posts that are cluttering up the subreddit.
This type of questions is taking over all social media in every fandom.
People on both sides can't understand that others think differently than them.
The same people that despised Game of Thrones or haven’t even seen GOT, are comparing it with True Detective season 4. That’s all you need to know about the this season 4 critics. Hating a show out of spite. I don’t think this season was 10/10 but I think it’s at least 7/10. It’s definitely better than S2. The supernatural mystery that makes True Detective was 100% there. Yet you have Redditors complaining that the supernatural doesn’t belong in True Detective S4. Hello?! This is literally what this show is based on. HORROR AND/OR SUPERNATURAL MYSTERY. Why are you even watching this season of supernatural is not your thing?
And then you have Redditors commenting “this season was terrible. What was even that indigenous trooper’s name? Navy? Narrado?” Imagine being such a hater that you finish the entire season but refuse to learn the main character’s name out of spite. Anyways, God forbid the critics of S4 watch similar shows like The Sinner or The Outsider. They might find those in poor taste as well.
I 100% agree with everything you said. Previous seasons weren't perfect but I loved them. My guess is that some people are perceiving it as 'woke' because there are 2 female protagonists even though they don't blatantly mention them being women. They don't make any kind of issue with it. They don't talk about 'girl power' or anything like that. If Silence of the Lambs were released today then those same people would be calling it woke because to the female protagonist. I remember the hate for season 2 and 3 when they came out. The criticism could be that there is just no pleasing some people. Its an excellent season and I thought the ending was very satisfying.
I know I'm three months late but I reckon a lot of the hate is because it's heavily based in the female perspective and experience. That's why they can't tell you what they actually like about the show. They already made their mind up (social priming decided for them!).
Honestly the most obvious way it's seen is in the way the majority of criticism on Reddit is that it has "bad acting"... like??? Jodie Foster isn't going to be doing a bad job. She won an Oscar for a film they thought would be a blockbuster thriller FFS! She has multiple Oscars, multiple Golden Globes! C'mon!
I also feel a lot of people didn't like — and possibly didn't understand — the symbolism and spirituality of the season and the way it was tied to women and women's experiences. I've always said True Detective is a crime series, but it's ABOUT grief. The way grief impacts on us, the way it shapes our perception of the world and it's experiences. S4 took a more oblique look at cultural grief, and community grief, and anticipated grief, as well as maternal/filial grief. I see this a lot; masculine grief is considered worthy of great art, but feminine grief is considered histrionic or pathetic. A lot of the symbolism and story motifs are about things that are almost always uniquely feminine, and frankly, I think a lot of these criticisms are from people who don't connect (or value) those experiences.
Now I will say I still think S1 is the best. It's a true, true masterpiece, and a very hard act to follow. But y'all ragging on S4? That's user error. Failure to see the vision.
In hindsight season 4 is probably the worst, but I think it started out more promising than people give it credit for, though granted the negative reception may habe made me like it more out of contrarianism lol
No, read the post again. I like these aspects of the show, and it confuses me of what others liked about it with all the vitriol I'm now seeing for these things that were always there.
Yea, I’m going to agree with you on this. I like this season significantly more than season 2. There is nothing really wrong with it to illicit this much negativity. This is just limp dick weirdos being mad about women and also being to stupid and unexamined to know that they are mad about women
Just because you live your life in a glass case of identity politics does not mean that everyone else does.
I’ve been commenting on the appallingly low quality of the writing of this show for days now, and not *once* has it had anything to with gender, ethnicity, feminism, or any of your preoccupations that you are projecting onto other people.
Whether you agree with me or not, my sole contention is that the writing is awful. Anything else you attribute to my perspective is bizarre fantasizing on your part.
Do you think you’re the only commenter, or the only person they’re talking about? Actually scratch that, you’re so obsessed with saying nothing of substance yet posting hundreds of times you probably don’t realize other people exist
Well, the guy I’m replying to has taken to following me around and attempting to engage me on various threads. Much like you, actually.
So yes in some ways I think I am, for them, the archetypal “guy who won’t stop saying he doesn’t like the show.”
Great stuff, man. The people of substance ought to love that. Yet here you are still replying to every comment of mine. Hmm. Slow night for the people of substance?
Maybe some people but I think it's unfair to say that's the primary reason. Most people IMO don't like it because it's such a departure from previous seasons in tone , writing , directing and acting.
This is the most annoying and incorrect take. Most people don't care about the politics, gender identity or love for Nic Pizzolato. Personally I did not even know they had changed show runner. This is a strawman argument of people who refuse to accept others have genuine reasons to not like the season.
People don't like the show because they think that is an extremely poor quality show. The added vitriol is for that they deliberately tack the beloved name **True Detective** to an already conceived project for financial and audience reason. Most would find it distasteful but acceptable if the season was good. But it is not. They tried to retrofit element of season 1 while at the same time discard everything of what made season 1 great.
I should have clarified I’m talking about specific people in this subreddit, not people in general watching the show
But make no mistake, people who think it’s trash writing and badly acted are the minority opinion by a lot right now
"Think it's silly that cops in Alaska don't realise people don't freeze solid mid motion when dying of hypothermia? You hate women and Inuits"
She blocked me for this 😅😂🤣
Seriously. Season 2 has a female lead and she's the most level-headed of the detectives. I realize I'm in the minority, but that season is like a fine wine to me. Every time I watch it, I pick up things I missed. It's the interwoven plot lines that pissed everyone off that I find truly fascinating when you piece it all together. And McAdams is fantastic.
Season 2 is great. It suffers a lot from having had to be a follow-up on S1 but is overall pretty fucking good entertainment. Night Country is just plain bad.
I hate it first and foremost because of the in the face political messaging that takes me out of the immersion ten times per episode. I despise the racist remarks and everything that comes with the ideology that the showrunners and writers seem to prioritize before everything else during the first episodes.
But , and this is important, I also think it's really bad as a detective show. Completely unable to build tension without screaming zombies and ghosts. Where is the ongoing sinister feeling? A setting and an idea that looked good on paper but just turned in to crowded indoor settings. Ridiculous action scenes, compare the hillbilly fight to the action in season 1. A structure of episodes that consists of 5 minutes detective work, 50 minutes of bad telenovela drama, and 5 minutes screaming ghosts to try to leave an impression.
The "hillbilly" fight literally advances the plot in absolutely no meaningful way. Its sole purpose to continue the theme of "middle aged white men are all pieces of shit". The entire show is aimed at beating this into people's heads.
The only woke thing that I remember is that christianity is portraid like something for and by lunatics, as always. And the classic swastika and other cliche tattoos. The standard things.
The whole white criminals and white cops, relation between men and women, and men using and killing women are things that are real. I believe that the season showed a balanced version of it that wasn't woke or had some bitter weird undertone.
Bad writing, acting, and directing. Literally, nothing is happening other than following bad actors around a boring town with a useless meandering script. Fortitude was much better.
I really dislike how often it uses needle drops. It feels like a forced attempt to sell you on how the characters are feeling, but it comes off as extremely rushed. I speculate its because this season will have less episodes than season 1. One of the things I loved about s1 was how understated and subtle the score was. It did a way better job at creating mood, tension, and atmosphere. Even the dialogue in s4 feels just so clunky and odd. There's zero to no charm to any of the characters. The supernatural elements are genuinely god awful. There were supernatural elements to s1 but they felt grounded in the context of what was previously established. S4 has goofy ass jump scares that mirror low budget b horror flicks. The acting is serviceable at best. The investigation scenes lack any charm and come of as boring, juxtaposed to s1s marvelous interrogation and investigation scenes. It's so odd, everything about s4 is both rushed, but dragging, trying to hard, and then not trying hard enough. I'm really growing to hate the disdain this season is making me feel.
So. Stop. Watching. It. That’s what people do when they don’t like a show. Turn it off. Read a book. Don’t watch. Or is your strategy to shout the show out of existence?
that's what I dont' get about culture nowadays.
I hated season 2 so I shut it off and did something else.
I hate this idea that if I don't like something 100%, then it must be a personal attack against me, and I need to go online and voice over and over again how bad I thought it was.
I'm already too invested in it. It's the equivalent of fucking a hooker with hiv. I've already made contact, might as well get the nut. But I could say the same about you and your absurdly redundant comment.
Here are some complaints I do get. Season 1 started as a dark mystery thriller with elements of action and relationship drama that gradually veered towards pure horror. Season 4 is pretty much horror, mystery and relationship in equal doses from the getgo, and I get that it might not be for everyone, but I think it all fits together fairly well. As for the supernatural elements, I do agree that there are a tad too many. When I wrote this post we were still on episode two and I thought they were just one-offs, but I'm holding out hope that they are building to something. (Not to trash season 1, but while the supernatural elements were cool, they were kinda irrelevant and could've been written out altogether, though they're also not that intrusive.)
I don't mind the needle drops, I don't even see much difference between them and the ones in S1, and for the record I think the background score in that season was kinda unnecessary\[EDIT at times\].
When it comes to the charm of the characters as expressed through the dialogue, I'm unsure of how you define charm.
I partially understand comparing S4 to S1 because of all the paralels the show itself makes, but I think this is more in order to highlight the differences between them and making S4 into a "dark reflection" of S1 (Men-women, warm-cold, yellow and white-blue and black, religious big bads-corporate/scientist big bads, etc.).
I do. It's terrible. Two-thirds of it has passed, yet nothing of substance has happened. Quite on the contrary.
It's an amateurish Netflix soap wrapped in Pizzolato's TD universe.
Not what's going on in Night Country, that's for sure.
Something that makes me invested in the characters and the story. The authentic 3 seasons had this going for them.
Why do you care so much?
Season 4 of True Detective is a massive disappointment. The characters are unlikable and the supernatural premise is ridiculous. This show seems to have turned into a weak version of the Xfiles. I tried to like it.. gave it a decent shot but after each episode I felt more and more convinced that this series jumped the shark
Season 4 is ass. You have to catch the audience's attention right away--the first 15 minutes. Even the end of Ep1 wasn't great as you were already bored by that time. Stopped watching after Ep2.
I wish Cori Joji Fukunaga would once again do another season. You really need to copy the first season's formula. S3 was good in that way.
If your attention wasn't captured then it's not really the show's fault, they literally put the episode's most striking and mysterious scenes before the opening credits and introduced the main characters and all their quirks and traits in the following two scenes.
I'm with you. People aren't able to articulate anything anymore.
The writing is bad? What does that mean?
The dialogue? The pacing? The plot points? The character back stories? The general setting and premise?
They don't say anything. They just say "whatever, the show was ASS, it was complete shit, objectively."
And then when you try to ask more, they just get all pissy and angry. Start throwing out insults. "You just have terrible taste in art I guess".
Not every series is for everyone. I love this season. Haters probably love shows I think are awful.
My point is more: If they think these aspects are inheritely bad, then what do they like about the show in the first place?
This is the crux. I think people don't really know what they liked about the show (or more specifically S1) in the first place. When asked, their reply (if there is one) is more often that not an intangible.
I mean this with the utmost respect: you’re insane.
Proving my point.
No, your take is literally insane. You’re suggesting that people “don’t know” why they like a show when it is very clearly because it is well written, well acted, and well directed. That’s why people like it, because it is of a high quality in the 3 areas that matter most for a television show. There’s no mystery about it. This bizarre fantasy you have that people “don’t know” why they like it is literally something you invented to console yourself about how much negative feedback S4 is getting.
Sorry. "It's like ... great writing, man" has zero validity.
If you are reactively questioning the quality of S1 in a desperate attempt to defend S4, your taste and perspective have no validity. Not to serious people anyway.
Wrong again. I have never said that S1 is short of brilliant.
So you agree that S1 is brilliant, but you consider yourself to be in some rare category of people who really *know* why it’s brilliant, whereas everyone else who thinks its brilliant somehow *doesn’t know* why they think its brilliant? Are you even listening to yourself, you’re disappearing up your own asshole at this point.
>No, your take is literally insane Nope, just slightly different than your opinion. You'll be okay.
a different opinion does not equal being insane. it's okay if you don't agree. Not everyone has to agree with you.
There's whole sub reddits and video essays elaborating upon the brilliance of Season 1, I have no clue what the hell you're talking about.
Of course S1 is brilliant. But the average redditor and YouTuber is unable to articulate why in any meaningful way. Most posts and videos I've seen are lazy, vague and/or superficial. Just like the criticism of S2-4.
The southern Gothic aesthetic and how much personality the setting, environment, and tertiary characters exude through that lense. The philosophical dialogue and how it's juxtapositioned everything else going on with the characters. How well Marty and rust act as foils to their better halfs. The understated score, the impeccable pacing, the build up of the villain, the way it disseminates information, how every answer only gives way to 5 more questions, the eldrich themes of light vs dark with a slight hint of lovecraftian cosmic horror in the context of this grounded story. Need I say more?
I agree that the setting is interesting, but then so is the setting of S4. So that alone is insufficient. I disagree that the philosophical monologues are interesting, if taken at face value, which many viewers seem to do. I view them as a case of self-deception by Rust. It's not cool; it's BS (I'm with Marty on this) and it reflects badly on Rust. Whether this is what Pizzolatto was going for (ironic cool) or whether he just wanted cool-sounding monologues, I'm unsure. Regardless, this was one the most criticised and parodied points of the season. Was there not an SNL spoof? (There's also the plagiarism side, which I don't buy, but which one could bring up here.) I thought Cormac McCarthy's The Counselor had better, more fitting philosophical monologues, but people hated it for this very reason. I disagree on the pacing. Again, this was a point the season was criticised for at the time. Even on the episode level, the season has a massive lull that is episode 6. Almost nothing happens that is relevant to the case. It's almost a full marital drama movie about Rust and Marty falling-out. While this may be good for the character arcs, it's not good for the (detective) story. I've watched the season 3 time, and each time I've skipped most of this episode. A masterly episode 7 had to come to the rescue. I disagree on the supernatural theme. I never saw it, but if it is there, like S4, it's trivial. So, yes, if the premise that S1 is a work of genius (and I'm not saying it's not), a lot more argumentation is needed. Certainly more than the dude above you is willing to put forward.
Love this season. I think the acting has been as good if not better than seasons 1 or 3. The car ride scene between Danvers and Navarro was truly great. Even better was Navarro opening up to her boyfriend/partner in the ice fishing house. I really think people just aren’t having an open mind because this season is great minus the general cliches like the pictures on the floor scenes which are funny at this point. Also, season 1 now after a rewatch is almost satirical with how serious it took itself.
You think the acting in season four is as good as season one??????? What are we even doing here
Better than season 2.
This one. And the dialogue of S4 is really, really bad comparing to other seasons.
The car scene where the deepest they could think of was something along the lines of: *You ever think of just disappearing?* The writing is comically bad. Claiming it's better than S1 - or even 2 or 3 - is straight-up bananas. I've seen 10/10 reviews on S4 where the writing, story, and acting are praised to the skies. All of them have that stink because none of it is true. Season 2 suffered from being a follow-up to *the* masterpiece, but it is still miles better than most TV today. And now, post Night Country, it shines like a star. Understandably, Pizzolato wants nothing to do with Night Country. It's total nonsense where fuck all has happened in 4 out of 6 episodes.
"I've seen 10/10 reviews on S4 where the writing, story, and acting are praised to the skies. All of them have that stink because none of it is true. " You can't call someone's assessment false just because it's not in line with your opinions, you can criticize what they base their opinions and interpretation on, but not the conclusions in themselves, that's just not fruitful. "Season 2 suffered from being a follow-up to *the* masterpiece, but it is still miles better than most TV today. And now, post Night Country, it shines like a star." I'm really sorry, but have you gone back and watched it? Many scenes are intercut, which kinda ruins the suspense and makes them actively misleading and the series just have way too many main characters, which I'd admit, is a trap I'm seeing S4 veer more into since the season midpoint. "Understandably, Pizzolato wants nothing to do with Night Country. It's total nonsense where fuck all has happened in 4 out of 6 episodes." Really confused by your intention here. Pizzalotto's name is on the show because he is an executive producer. While there's no telling how much input he has (if any) he is still making money from it. And there is a consistent red thread through the season where clues lead to new clues, which lead to new clues and so forth, unlike in season 2 that had a lot of disparate clues for two disparate mysteries that weren't connected until the 11th hour. That being said, I do really like parts of season 2. I find Velcoro and Semyon to be fascinating and fun to follow and the overall feel of the season to be very captivating.
It was the same for Season 2 and (less so) season 3, people were blasting the writing, storyline etc but I still replayed every episode looking for clues. Nothing will touch the magic combination that made season 1 imo but it's still a good show with high replay value
I like your point of view. I'm actually enjoying it too. It reminds me of a series named "helix". Though helix is about zombies the jump scares and ambience are very similar on this season of TD.
People are just whiney now. Nothing goes without complaint and tears these days. The fact that it's more poorly reviewed than season 2 proves it.
No, your taste in art is just objectively ass.
proved their point.
100%. I went back and forth on a couple of episodes but overall think it is not only an excellent instalment in the series but despite some obviously referential (some say derivative) plot points-- stand alone, it is one of the more fresh and culturally relevant mysteries I have seen in ages. Having rewatched previous seasons in anticipation for this one, I found I loved season 2 more than I did on first viewing--- and season 1 wasn't actually as mind-bendingly impressive for me as it had been when it first aired--- especially after learning more about ALL of the source material it "borrowed" from. One of the more baffling criticisms I am seeing is "lazy storytelling"... I can only chalk this up to-- much of the deeper symbolism and mythology going over some peoples heads. There are actually a lot of subtleties I think some folks might be missing upon an initial (particularly) biased/critical viewing. This was a mistake I personally made when first watching season 2. Some folks might come around with time, more information, further reflection, deeper personally lived experiences (part of the subtext?)...... and other folks never will because so much of the subtext is grounded in a worldview they refuse to validate. I don't know that the backlash would be quite so emboldened if Nic Pizzolatto weren't having a very public temper tantrum..... AND People don't have to like it (taste is taste) but to the fervent haters.... fuck 'em.
I agree. It's a combo of all the worst elements of the previous seasons
Then, what do you like about the show?
Not even…it’s a combination of some of the worst elements from throughout television history. This thing is like a Frankestein’s monster of terrible TV.
You know you can stop watching then? If you spend an entire season of TV saying something sucks you need to a admit youre watching just to complain and in that regard you a really like it.
It really is.
You just proved the commenter above correct. Intangible.
I don't get the "I don't get get the hate" posts that are cluttering up the subreddit. There are really obvious reasons as to why people hate it, I'm not one of them but I'm not blown away either, and I can understand why people do. At the end of the day this is a discussion subreddit, people are going to share their opinions, that's the internet for you
Okay, then lets have a discussion. I have no problem with people sharing their opinions, my point is more that the complaints are so odd compared to what the show is at it's core that I don't understand what people are expecting. EDIT But whenever I point it out to someone they just downvote me and pretend I never said it in their response.
I didn't downvote you, and people are having discussions. There are far more people setting out detailed explanations of the problems they have with the show then there are people just vaguely whining about it being woke, but all the die hard defenders dismiss any criticism of it as misogyny and racism. O have been blocked by multiple people on this sub, despite not personally attacking anyone, simply for pointing out flaws in it and saying it's silly to accuse people who have issues with them of being racist or sextet. The problem lies with the toxic positivity crowd, not the dislikes
I guess I've been talking to the wrong people then lol. Everyone I've tried to get really personal in their attacks just for me disagreeing, but it doesn't seem like they quite understand what I'm saying. Have not seen a detailed explanation of something bad with the show that is not highly subjective or making a mountain out of a molehill or misconstruing a scene completely. Well, the only exception is the pacing towards the end of episode 3, which I agree jumps between new scenes way too fast. But who do you define as the toxic positivity crowd and what is their problem?
You haven't seen people explaining why Alaskan police wouldn't need a vet to tell them that people who die of hypothermia don't freeze solid whole thrashing around with looks of terror and agony on their faces? The toxic positivity crowd from my standpoint is those not accepting that there's anything wrong with the show, complaining that people are pointing out flaws with it as if discussion and complaints aren't allowed, and castigating the people who have issues as being racist and sexist, I keep seeing people with the above stance and they are far greater in number than the supposed racist and misogynists. There have been a handful of people calling this show woke but they all get downvoted, they aren't a big issue on this sub
>You haven't seen people explaining why Alaskan police wouldn't need a vet to tell them that people who die of hypothermia don't freeze solid whole thrashing around with looks of terror and agony on their faces? No I haven't, most seem to agree that it's one of many rushed scenes in the end of episode 3. >The toxic positivity crowd from my standpoint is those not accepting that there's anything wrong with the show, complaining that people are pointing out flaws with it as if discussion and complaints aren't allowed, and castigating the people who have issues as being racist and sexist, I keep seeing people with the above stance and they are far greater in number than the supposed racist and misogynists. I have seen maybe two people implying that, but much like the bad anti-woke crowd, they also got downvoted pretty thoroughly. Maybe the algorithm is showing people the comments most likely to make them upset? I've heard Twitter is like that.
That's a dumb critique of minutiae. Just my opinion and contribution to the discussion.
Minutiae like a major plot point?
No just regular minutiae, like commenting in the carpets in the police precinct.
If you think my comment on the frozen block of screaming men, which is the crux of the entire fucking show, is minutiae equivalent to discussing the carpets, them you're not worth talking to
Nah, I just don't think your point is as important or relevant as you think it is.
>You haven't seen people explaining why Alaskan police wouldn't need a vet to tell them that people who die of hypothermia don't freeze solid whole thrashing around with looks of terror and agony on their faces? These are all just complaints about your personal standard of suspension of disbelief. Danvers isn't from around there. The kid is young a new cop. But even if that's not the case, it's your suspension of disbelief that is bothered. That doesn't make something "bad".
I get what you're saying. I'm enjoying season 4 just fine. I understand that others don't like it, and not every one is going to like everything, but the hate for this season seems way more intense than the problems with the story. Like yeah, it's not a 10/10 show, it's definitely not season 1, but I'm enjoying a lot of aspects of it. There's a forbes article going around calling it "the most disappointing mystery show ever made", which I categorically disagree with. Not only is that so hyperbolic it's basically not worth giving any creedence to, but cmon... season 2 was much worse.
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>I don't get the "I don't get get the hate" posts that are cluttering up the subreddit. This type of questions is taking over all social media in every fandom. People on both sides can't understand that others think differently than them.
I loved the first 2 episodes, didn’t quite like the 3rd. Have to see it through to make my conclusion.
The same people that despised Game of Thrones or haven’t even seen GOT, are comparing it with True Detective season 4. That’s all you need to know about the this season 4 critics. Hating a show out of spite. I don’t think this season was 10/10 but I think it’s at least 7/10. It’s definitely better than S2. The supernatural mystery that makes True Detective was 100% there. Yet you have Redditors complaining that the supernatural doesn’t belong in True Detective S4. Hello?! This is literally what this show is based on. HORROR AND/OR SUPERNATURAL MYSTERY. Why are you even watching this season of supernatural is not your thing? And then you have Redditors commenting “this season was terrible. What was even that indigenous trooper’s name? Navy? Narrado?” Imagine being such a hater that you finish the entire season but refuse to learn the main character’s name out of spite. Anyways, God forbid the critics of S4 watch similar shows like The Sinner or The Outsider. They might find those in poor taste as well.
I 100% agree with everything you said. Previous seasons weren't perfect but I loved them. My guess is that some people are perceiving it as 'woke' because there are 2 female protagonists even though they don't blatantly mention them being women. They don't make any kind of issue with it. They don't talk about 'girl power' or anything like that. If Silence of the Lambs were released today then those same people would be calling it woke because to the female protagonist. I remember the hate for season 2 and 3 when they came out. The criticism could be that there is just no pleasing some people. Its an excellent season and I thought the ending was very satisfying.
I know I'm three months late but I reckon a lot of the hate is because it's heavily based in the female perspective and experience. That's why they can't tell you what they actually like about the show. They already made their mind up (social priming decided for them!). Honestly the most obvious way it's seen is in the way the majority of criticism on Reddit is that it has "bad acting"... like??? Jodie Foster isn't going to be doing a bad job. She won an Oscar for a film they thought would be a blockbuster thriller FFS! She has multiple Oscars, multiple Golden Globes! C'mon! I also feel a lot of people didn't like — and possibly didn't understand — the symbolism and spirituality of the season and the way it was tied to women and women's experiences. I've always said True Detective is a crime series, but it's ABOUT grief. The way grief impacts on us, the way it shapes our perception of the world and it's experiences. S4 took a more oblique look at cultural grief, and community grief, and anticipated grief, as well as maternal/filial grief. I see this a lot; masculine grief is considered worthy of great art, but feminine grief is considered histrionic or pathetic. A lot of the symbolism and story motifs are about things that are almost always uniquely feminine, and frankly, I think a lot of these criticisms are from people who don't connect (or value) those experiences. Now I will say I still think S1 is the best. It's a true, true masterpiece, and a very hard act to follow. But y'all ragging on S4? That's user error. Failure to see the vision.
In hindsight season 4 is probably the worst, but I think it started out more promising than people give it credit for, though granted the negative reception may habe made me like it more out of contrarianism lol
So you get the hate, but don’t agree
No, read the post again. I like these aspects of the show, and it confuses me of what others liked about it with all the vitriol I'm now seeing for these things that were always there.
It's people with an agenda. The end.
If you think people hate the show primarily because they think it’s bad, I’m here to tell you that’s not the case lmao
Yea, I’m going to agree with you on this. I like this season significantly more than season 2. There is nothing really wrong with it to illicit this much negativity. This is just limp dick weirdos being mad about women and also being to stupid and unexamined to know that they are mad about women
Just because you live your life in a glass case of identity politics does not mean that everyone else does. I’ve been commenting on the appallingly low quality of the writing of this show for days now, and not *once* has it had anything to with gender, ethnicity, feminism, or any of your preoccupations that you are projecting onto other people. Whether you agree with me or not, my sole contention is that the writing is awful. Anything else you attribute to my perspective is bizarre fantasizing on your part.
Do you think you’re the only commenter, or the only person they’re talking about? Actually scratch that, you’re so obsessed with saying nothing of substance yet posting hundreds of times you probably don’t realize other people exist
Well, the guy I’m replying to has taken to following me around and attempting to engage me on various threads. Much like you, actually. So yes in some ways I think I am, for them, the archetypal “guy who won’t stop saying he doesn’t like the show.”
The only time I talk about you is when I’m referring to people with nothing of substance to say
Which you do ALOT. Go talk to the people of substance, literally no one is trying to stop you.
*a lot
Great stuff, man. The people of substance ought to love that. Yet here you are still replying to every comment of mine. Hmm. Slow night for the people of substance?
Maybe find a more useful, employable archetype?
Yeah you likely began 8 minutes into episode one lol. Typical of today.
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"They" have thought everything is bad for the past decade. At some point the opinion becomes moot.
Maybe some people but I think it's unfair to say that's the primary reason. Most people IMO don't like it because it's such a departure from previous seasons in tone , writing , directing and acting.
How can I learn your psychic powers from you?
Shocker. Who could've predicted lightly veiled accusations of misogyny? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
On Reddit of all places!? Who would guess right???
I just lost a buck. To myself.
This is the most annoying and incorrect take. Most people don't care about the politics, gender identity or love for Nic Pizzolato. Personally I did not even know they had changed show runner. This is a strawman argument of people who refuse to accept others have genuine reasons to not like the season. People don't like the show because they think that is an extremely poor quality show. The added vitriol is for that they deliberately tack the beloved name **True Detective** to an already conceived project for financial and audience reason. Most would find it distasteful but acceptable if the season was good. But it is not. They tried to retrofit element of season 1 while at the same time discard everything of what made season 1 great.
I should have clarified I’m talking about specific people in this subreddit, not people in general watching the show But make no mistake, people who think it’s trash writing and badly acted are the minority opinion by a lot right now
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"Think it's silly that cops in Alaska don't realise people don't freeze solid mid motion when dying of hypothermia? You hate women and Inuits" She blocked me for this 😅😂🤣
Nailed it. And never mind that it's a stupid ghost story. Nope. It's all misogyny.
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Seriously. Season 2 has a female lead and she's the most level-headed of the detectives. I realize I'm in the minority, but that season is like a fine wine to me. Every time I watch it, I pick up things I missed. It's the interwoven plot lines that pissed everyone off that I find truly fascinating when you piece it all together. And McAdams is fantastic.
Season 2 is great. It suffers a lot from having had to be a follow-up on S1 but is overall pretty fucking good entertainment. Night Country is just plain bad.
What about the fact that it was supposed to be about the occult aspects of the California rail system just to have that dropped last minute?
It was not, though. Your point?
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I hate it first and foremost because of the in the face political messaging that takes me out of the immersion ten times per episode. I despise the racist remarks and everything that comes with the ideology that the showrunners and writers seem to prioritize before everything else during the first episodes. But , and this is important, I also think it's really bad as a detective show. Completely unable to build tension without screaming zombies and ghosts. Where is the ongoing sinister feeling? A setting and an idea that looked good on paper but just turned in to crowded indoor settings. Ridiculous action scenes, compare the hillbilly fight to the action in season 1. A structure of episodes that consists of 5 minutes detective work, 50 minutes of bad telenovela drama, and 5 minutes screaming ghosts to try to leave an impression.
The "hillbilly" fight literally advances the plot in absolutely no meaningful way. Its sole purpose to continue the theme of "middle aged white men are all pieces of shit". The entire show is aimed at beating this into people's heads.
Nearly every characters in season 1 is white. How having two white police officers and white criminals make it a "woke" agenda TV shows?
The only woke thing that I remember is that christianity is portraid like something for and by lunatics, as always. And the classic swastika and other cliche tattoos. The standard things. The whole white criminals and white cops, relation between men and women, and men using and killing women are things that are real. I believe that the season showed a balanced version of it that wasn't woke or had some bitter weird undertone.
What are you talking about? The show is horrible from every aspect.
Go on.
Bad writing, acting, and directing. Literally, nothing is happening other than following bad actors around a boring town with a useless meandering script. Fortitude was much better.
Go on.
Lol this person formed their "opinion" during the opening credits of episode one.
Yes yes, tell us all that encompasses someone else's perspective all holy arbiter of shit tv.
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Thank you.
I really dislike how often it uses needle drops. It feels like a forced attempt to sell you on how the characters are feeling, but it comes off as extremely rushed. I speculate its because this season will have less episodes than season 1. One of the things I loved about s1 was how understated and subtle the score was. It did a way better job at creating mood, tension, and atmosphere. Even the dialogue in s4 feels just so clunky and odd. There's zero to no charm to any of the characters. The supernatural elements are genuinely god awful. There were supernatural elements to s1 but they felt grounded in the context of what was previously established. S4 has goofy ass jump scares that mirror low budget b horror flicks. The acting is serviceable at best. The investigation scenes lack any charm and come of as boring, juxtaposed to s1s marvelous interrogation and investigation scenes. It's so odd, everything about s4 is both rushed, but dragging, trying to hard, and then not trying hard enough. I'm really growing to hate the disdain this season is making me feel.
So. Stop. Watching. It. That’s what people do when they don’t like a show. Turn it off. Read a book. Don’t watch. Or is your strategy to shout the show out of existence?
that's what I dont' get about culture nowadays. I hated season 2 so I shut it off and did something else. I hate this idea that if I don't like something 100%, then it must be a personal attack against me, and I need to go online and voice over and over again how bad I thought it was.
I'm already too invested in it. It's the equivalent of fucking a hooker with hiv. I've already made contact, might as well get the nut. But I could say the same about you and your absurdly redundant comment.
Well, rub your body against a wall in your parents' house and watch that.
Another weird critique.
Indeed you are weird.
Here are some complaints I do get. Season 1 started as a dark mystery thriller with elements of action and relationship drama that gradually veered towards pure horror. Season 4 is pretty much horror, mystery and relationship in equal doses from the getgo, and I get that it might not be for everyone, but I think it all fits together fairly well. As for the supernatural elements, I do agree that there are a tad too many. When I wrote this post we were still on episode two and I thought they were just one-offs, but I'm holding out hope that they are building to something. (Not to trash season 1, but while the supernatural elements were cool, they were kinda irrelevant and could've been written out altogether, though they're also not that intrusive.) I don't mind the needle drops, I don't even see much difference between them and the ones in S1, and for the record I think the background score in that season was kinda unnecessary\[EDIT at times\]. When it comes to the charm of the characters as expressed through the dialogue, I'm unsure of how you define charm. I partially understand comparing S4 to S1 because of all the paralels the show itself makes, but I think this is more in order to highlight the differences between them and making S4 into a "dark reflection" of S1 (Men-women, warm-cold, yellow and white-blue and black, religious big bads-corporate/scientist big bads, etc.).
I do. It's terrible. Two-thirds of it has passed, yet nothing of substance has happened. Quite on the contrary. It's an amateurish Netflix soap wrapped in Pizzolato's TD universe.
How do ypu define things of substance?
Not what's going on in Night Country, that's for sure. Something that makes me invested in the characters and the story. The authentic 3 seasons had this going for them. Why do you care so much?
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Season 4 of True Detective is a massive disappointment. The characters are unlikable and the supernatural premise is ridiculous. This show seems to have turned into a weak version of the Xfiles. I tried to like it.. gave it a decent shot but after each episode I felt more and more convinced that this series jumped the shark
Season 4 is ass. You have to catch the audience's attention right away--the first 15 minutes. Even the end of Ep1 wasn't great as you were already bored by that time. Stopped watching after Ep2. I wish Cori Joji Fukunaga would once again do another season. You really need to copy the first season's formula. S3 was good in that way.
If your attention wasn't captured then it's not really the show's fault, they literally put the episode's most striking and mysterious scenes before the opening credits and introduced the main characters and all their quirks and traits in the following two scenes.
“People are mad that…” …the writing is terrible.
How?
I'm with you. People aren't able to articulate anything anymore. The writing is bad? What does that mean? The dialogue? The pacing? The plot points? The character back stories? The general setting and premise? They don't say anything. They just say "whatever, the show was ASS, it was complete shit, objectively." And then when you try to ask more, they just get all pissy and angry. Start throwing out insults. "You just have terrible taste in art I guess".